Giuliani makes predictions about the presidential debates; Trump economic adviser: Many families are losing income

Former mayor of New York City weighs in on 'Sunday Morning Futures'


This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," August 28, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


Donald Trump making his appeal to several groups of voters, explaining why he would be the best president the economy and national security.

Hi, everyone.  I'm Maria Bartiromo.  Welcome this is "Sunday Morning Futures."

Trump addressing farmers in Iowa after spending much in the last week focusing on the minority vote.  Rudy Giuliani in moments on whether Trump's message is resonating with voters.

Plus, new revelations in the Clinton email saga, still dodging the Democratic presidential nominee.  

Former Attorney General Michael Mukasey is with me on the upcoming release of more emails and the Clinton Foundation.

Outrage this morning over an unfulfilled promise of the president who said he would donate to charity of an American held hostage then killed by ISIS.

Our panel weigh-in as we look at this morning, this Sunday, on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  Hillary Clinton meeting with top US intelligence officials at an FBI office just north of New York City, getting her first national security briefing as the Democratic presidential nominee this morning.  

Yesterday, it's classified briefing caps a week of questions about her email, and evidence of pay for play as we learn about direct connections between the Clinton Foundation and top officials at the State Department.  

We're going to be talking about that this morning.

Joining us right now is former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, good to see you.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR:  I find the briefing her extraordinary.  She was found to be extremely careless in the handling of national security information and now, we're briefing her national security information.

You know, she wouldn't pass an FBI background check for an assistant U.S. attorney's position.  If I were a U.S. Attorney like I was 20 years ago and she was a candidate for the U.S. attorney, I couldn't hire her.

BARTIROMO:  And President Obama made that made a point of saying, oh, you know, Trump needs to make sure to keep everything secret in these national briefings, and we know one just took place with Hillary Clinton.  She made no mention of Hillary Clinton.

GIULIANI:  She exposed literally thousands and thousands and thousands of our most sensitive secrets to our enemies, who are our frenemies, however you want to describe it. Comey made that very clear when he just about said that they must have been hacked.

And anyone who knows anything about cybersecurity, and I do that for a living knows that it would be to me a surprise if the Chinese and the Russians and maybe even some of our friends don't have most of those emails.

BARTIROMO:  Yes, I want to ask you about that and I know this is one of your specialties is cybersecurity.  So, I want to ask you about that as well as the Clinton Foundation.

But, let's kick it off right now with Donald Trump.


BARTIROMO:  And what he's been doing ahead of the important debate, September 26th.  You've been strategizing with him.

Is he beginning to narrow the gap between himself and Hillary Clinton?

GIULIANI:  You can see it in every poll.


GIULIANI:  So, a couple weeks ago, he was down anywhere from five to 12 points and in polls.  Now, he's -- in some polls like "The Los Angeles Times", he's ahead by two.  Another poll, he's ahead by two.  A couple of others, he's behind by three, four.

So, he's not he's narrowed the gap at least in half, if not more, even with her outspending him dramatically, and he's already right after Labor Day going to spend a lot,

And in the battleground states, they're all within reach, and a few of them, he's ahead.  So, this is a very, very competitive campaign.  I do believe that these people are such bigger than life personalities that this is going to depend on the debates.  It's going to depend on what the American people think of these two people.


GIULIANI:  Forty percent know they're going to vote for Hillary.  Forty percent know they're going to vote for Trump. So, sitting in that television audience are probably about twenty percent persuadable people. And whoever does a better job of convincing them that this is the person I can trust to be president of the United States a little bit more than that one is going to win.

And I believe Donald will do that.  

BARTIROMO:  That's great analysis.  Yes.

GIULIANI:  I think Donald Trump is a terrific performer.  I also think he has much, much greater substantive of grasp of the issues than anybody realizes and I think that's going to be a surprise.

BARTIROMO:  So, how do you do that?  How do you prepare him, help him to prepare that he has his arms around the issues of the economy and about national security and that he has a plan in place?

GIULIANI:  So, I would say he's better prepared that she is because he gets interviewed much more than she does.  So, so any an interview is a debate, and what the debate.  If you're moderating the debate, you're asking both people questions that's what you doing with me right now.


GIULIANI:  And his familiarity and his comfort in being in the interview process, which he does with both friendly and unfriendly reports has really prepared him well for the debates.

BARTIROMO:  That's a good point and she hasn't even given a press conference.

GIULIANI:  Instead of Donald Trump doesn't want to, nor do I think it would be a good idea for him to do one of these, like you're standing on the podium and somebody play's Hillary and then we do a whole script thing, he would like the American people to see that he's not the typical politician, that he's an authentic guy and he's going to talk to them straight from the heart and tell him what he thinks.

And it's worked for him before.  I think it's going to work even better now because they've set the bar so low for him.  If you listen to Hillary, you're going to expect, you know, the demon that come out on the stage, and I know what a kind man he is, what a good man he is, how many people he's taken care of, and that's good that's going to come through.

BARTIROMO:  But will she be able to outdo him on specifics?  I mean, let's face it, she was there as the head of the State Department.  She was there as the first lady.

I mean, she's going to have the experience card to play what is he going to use to prove to the American people that, yes, I have a plan to fight ISIS and take ISIS down.  I have a plan to create millions of jobs.  

GIULIANI:  So, I don't want to give away any secrets in tat debate, but this is not a secret, that's what we keep saying.  Her experience is the worst thing she has gone for her, because she was a terrible secretary of state.  I mean, she can't go to a subject about foreign policy where she hasn't made it worse.

Libya is words.  Iran is worse.  Iraq is worse.  Syria, 300,000 people killed while she was secretary of state.

BARTIROMO:  Wow.  And then there's ISIS.

GIULIANI:  Then, ISIS emerged because she and Barack Obama and Joe Biden pulled the troops out of -- out of -- out of Iraq.


GIULIANI:  Leaving a vacuum and that vacuum was filled by ISIS.

You tell me the place where she's going to -- she wants to go to Russia, well, she reset the relationship with Russia.  Russia took over Crimea and she got a great deal money in excess of $130 million from Russians into the Clinton Foundation, and voted in favor of giving Russian uranium.

How -- how crazy is that?


GIULIANI:  Voted in favor of giving them uranium, meanwhile a hundred and thirty million dollars goes to the Clinton Foundation.  And before that deal was even put together, her husband helped to put the company together in Kazakhstan and they made a lot of money on that.

This was is a totally corrupt State Department.  

BARTIROMO:  Let's be clear, uranium is the stuff used to make nuclear bombs.

GIULIANI:  Yes, and some of that uranium --  


GIULIANI:  -- which the Russians promised us would not go to Iran went to Iran.  So, what she did was she sold out our country.

BARTIROMO:  Right.  So, she sold twenty five percent of U.S.'s uranium --  

GIULIANI:  If she were a Republican secretary of state, the headline in The New York Times would be, Clinton sells out America.  But because The New York Times fawns over her and has forever, the end up on, you know, someplace with a little water down the story.  This is --

BARTIROMO:  It was not going be -- that's not, if you're letting The New York Times --  


GIULIANI:  Clinton Foundation is to me equivalent to Watergate and the Teapot Dome scam scandal in terms of scope.  You have just read Clinton cash and then do a little independent research, and you will see, we're talking about at least 12 RICO predicates.  

There's a racketeering enterprise.  The Clinton Foundation is what you paid the money.  The State Department is where you got your access.  

And you didn't just get access, you've got favors.  You've got the sale uranium, that's a quid pro quo.  You've got a meeting with the American ambassador to Lebanon, that's a quid pro quo.

BARTIROMO:  Bahrain --  

GIULIANI:  The same -- the exact same thing with UBS, you put a hundred thirty million in and you get her intervening with the Internal Revenue Service to go easy on UBS.


GIULIANI:  That to me, old prosecutor that I was, we used to call that in the old days, maybe it doesn't exist anymore, bribery, and I put RICO cases together racketeering case the other on far less than that.

BARTIROMO:  But when you -- when you look at the timing of it, like, for example, the uranium deal, it was right then that then the Clinton Foundation got this money, hundreds of millions of dollars.

GIULIANI:  Which also by the way --  

BARTIROMO:  And then Bill Clinton got $600,000 for a speech.

GIULIANI:  Which undermine our national security and that puts us in jeopardy.

BARTIROMO:  Is that resonating with voters though?

GIULIANI:  I believe its death by a thousand cuts.  I think there's so much now that even the most loyal Hillary people and the people who are worried about Trump have to see that this woman -- she handled the State Department in a way that it was a racketeering enterprise.

BARTIROMO:  We know that fifty percent of her meetings were with donors.  
So, you know how to get a meeting with the secretary of state, donate to the Clinton Foundation.

GIULIANI:  And that is what they promise to the president of the United States that I will separate the affairs of the Clinton Foundation and I will stay out of them.

BARTIROMO:  Somebody said to me the other day, look, they're still asking for money and they're telling the world, give us the money now because after the election when my wife win, we're going to stop foreign donations.

So, it's basically a welcome, OK, send us the money now for the Clinton Foundation because we're going to stop accepting donations.  They should just stop accepting now.

GIULIANI:  Out of course, they should stop now.  But, you know, she may lose and then there's going to be no money going to the foundation.  So they want to -- they're worth $130 million, they like to be worth $200 million.

I mean, remember, this was the one who was broke when she left the White House and now, she's worth $130 million, $140 million.  That's tough when you -- when you've been a senator and held a public service job during that period of time.

BARTIROMO:  Well, we'll see.  We'll see if Donald Trump keeps on those messages and --  

GIULIANI:  Donald Trump should stick on the message, that she sold out her office of secretary of state.  She made it a pay-for-play operation, and she put our national security in grave jeopardy.

BARTIROMO:  Rudy Giuliani, great to see as always.  

GIULIANI:  Thank you.

BARTIROMO:  Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor.

A brand new Benghazi bombshell meanwhile could be on the way.  A judge setting a speedy deadline to the State Department, what we will find out from emails between the White House and Hillary Clinton in the week immediately after the deadly terrorist attack.

And then follow me on Twitter @MariaBartiromo, @SundayFutures.  

We're talking with the former Attorney General Michael Mukasey next.  

Stay with us.  We're looking ahead today on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.

Donald Trump calling on Hillary Clinton to have all of her daily schedules while secretary of state released, before Election Day.  This after the State Department said it could not complete a court-ordered release until after voters cast their ballots in November.

Meanwhile, the State Department is facing another deadline.  Any emails about Benghazi between Clinton in the White House sent during the week after the deadly attack now set for release by September 13.  There, among 15,000 emails newly recovered by the FBI.

Michael Mukasey is joining us now.  He served as attorney general under President George W. Bush.

Judge Mukasey, good to see you.  Thanks so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO:  First off, what's your takeaway -- you know, Mayor Giuliani just said death by a thousand cuts.  But every day, there is one more piece of info where there's emails about Benghazi and there's emails about donors getting money and donating so that, you know, they get access.

What do you think is most damning here?

MUKASEY:  I think what's most damning is what the mayor referred to when he talked about interest of the United States being compromised as a result of people getting access to the secretary of state, which in turn resulted from there making contributions to the foundation.  I think the uranium deal that he pointed to, and her intervention on behalf of UBS, if in fact that's what happened, are the most -- the most damning, because they're you have interest of the United States that are directly being compromised as a result of people getting access to the secretary of state.

But there are many more ways in which that access can influence events. Everything from getting a photograph with the secretary of state to hang on your wall, somebody's doing business with you comes into your office.  It's easier to have access to the secretary of state and figures, hey, I'd better do this is with this person because this person has access to important people.


MUKASEY:  It's that kind of thing -- everything from that to the sorts of things that that Mayor Giuliani referred to.  And you're never going to find an explicit email that says, well, if I give you this money, will you do this and that for me?  The question is, whether there's a pattern?  And that's what people should be looking for.

BARTIROMO:  Yes, I mean do you think that pattern is developing and is it resonating with voters?  I mean, one of -- you know, one of the issues is just so many emails and so many sort of conflicts out there with her being secretary of state in her husband running the foundation, that it's -- you know, people are saying oh more and they're not really paying attention.  

But when you actually look at the details of this, it may very well be that the American people with compromised.

MUKASEY:  I can't tell you whether it's resonating with voters, obviously. I'm not a -- I'm not a politician, I'm not a pollster.  I could tell you that there is -- there appears to be a pattern emerging every time you get another email, it's another little -- it's another little -- little piece of the puzzle that you put in the jigsaw puzzle and gradually, it comes together.

BARTIROMO:  Now, we know that from what's been released of her schedule that fifty percent of the people that she met with as secretary of state, 50 percent, were donors to the Clinton Foundation, which I found so extraordinary.

Are you --  

MUKASEY:  Exactly.  It's -- fifty percent of -- it's fifty percent of the non-governmental contacts that she had.  She met with foreign heads of state and so on if you if you factor that out and take the remainder, it's fifty percent of the remainder.

BARTIROMO:  Right.  And do you think that given that, that we will see the schedules released sooner?  I mean, the State Department saying, look, we cannot release the schedules of the secretary of state before November. So, they're basically not giving the American people the actual evidence and information before they go to the ballot box.

MUKASEY:  It's hard to understand why they can't release them before November and I wish, if in fact that's true, that they would explain why it is that you can take a calendar and simply delete out any classified information.  I can't imagine it would be a lot of classified information because all the calendar reflexes an appointment.

The fact that somebody talk to somebody else should not itself be classified, but if it is, then OK, blot it out.  But they're only a finite number days that she served and it seems to me, you could go over that in the morning, and figure out which things have to be deleted and which things don't.

BARTIROMO:  Right.  Now, Julian Assange says that WikiLeaks is going to release more Clinton emails before Election Day, even as the judge is ordering these 15,000 Clinton emails order to be submitted by September 13th, this is really -- this is really tight judge in terms of getting more information, right before people go to the polls.

Do you think there's some bombshell out there?

MUKASEY:  I have no idea whether there's a bombshell out there.  I know that Julian Assange is a great self promoter and so, obviously, he wants to promote interest in what -- whatever it is he's going to disclose.  

But I also find it very interesting that notwithstanding it, Secretary Clinton said she admitted all of the -- rather that she included all of her business-related emails when they review the thousands that were received from the FBI.  They got hits using the word Benghazi in the week after the attack.  So, there's every reason to believe that there's more relating to that.  

And when she stood over the coffins of the people coming back from Benghazi and talked about -- and talked about a video, and we know that the talking points were changed to delete any reference to al Qaeda, I think they're -- that's the place to look for something significant, if there is something there.

BARTIROMO:  Yes.  Judge, good to have on the program.  Thanks so much.

MUKASEY:  Good to be here.

BARTIROMO:  We'll see soon.  Judge Michael Casey there.

Hillary Clinton's economic policies meanwhile coming under fire.  Donald Trump is slamming her agenda as harmful to America.  We will compare both economic plans, how Trump says his plan to get the nation back on track. We'll take a look at it.

We're looking ahead this morning's on "Sunday Morning Futures." Back in a moment.



DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Hillary Clinton wants to shut down family farms, just like she wants to shut down the miners and the steelworkers.  Her anti-energy agenda will drive up the cost of energy, another attack on agriculture, it's a big attack when what you're doing because you need the energy.

We're going to end this war on the American farmer.


BARTIROMO:  Donald Trump slamming Hillary Clinton's agenda as he hammers on the importance of expanding America's economy.  The GDP growing a sluggish
1.1 percent in the second quarter.  That was the reading just last week. That was lower than expected, during the slowest economic recovery since World War Two.

Stephen Moore is with us.  He's an economic advisor for the Trump campaign. He's also a distinguished visiting fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

And, Steve, it's always a pleasure to talk with you.  Welcome.


BARTIROMO:  First, characterized where we are right now.  We got that GDP number last week.  I feel like recession fears have gone down and yet, we still at this real crawl if you want to call it that, of economic growth.

MOORE:  Well, first of all, for a lot of Americans, they are in a recession, let's be very clear about that.  I mean, we're looking at averages, but when the economy is only growing at one percent, which has been the number now for six months, you know, a lot of families are actually losing income.  

The only reason, by the way, Maria, that the number wasn't worse than it was is consumers are still spending.  It's interesting, they're spending was up in the first half of the year.

But the problem is, Maria, consumer spending is rising faster than wages and salaries, so people are dipping into their savings to some money, and the question, of course, is how long can that happen.  I would make the case to you when it comes the economy right now, the business sector isn't a soft recession.

You look at what's happening with business spending, you look at what's happening with business confidence and then as you cover every day on your business show, corporate profits have leveled off and they're not growing. And that is a big problem because if you don't have healthy companies, you're not going to get jobs.

BARTIROMO:  So, the thought is, from the Trump campaign's perspective is if you lower taxes for the business segments, you will create an environment, and if you roll back regulations of -- from a business, you will create an environment where business will create jobs and hire more people.

MOORE:  Exactly.  And so, we have the fifteen percent tax rate on both big businesses and small businesses are going to take America from being the highest tax rate country in the world, down to the lowest and we believe -- and I think of most economists would agree with us, that you bring that rate down, you're going to start to see those visit those jobs that are leaving for Mexico and China and India to come right back the United States.  It's going to be a magnet.

And you mentioned regulation -- you know, Maria, when we've met with business leaders, people who run, whether it's manufacturing firms or transportation companies or community banks, what they're telling us is that the regulatory stranglehold is even worse than the tax burden right now.  So, those are huge.  

I want to mention one other thing that happened this week, because it got completely overshadowed by the politics of the week, Maria, was what happened with the budget numbers.  You know, for the first time, we've seen actually the budget deficit get worse.  So, the budget deficit this year is going to be about six hundred billion dollars and the Budget Office tells us that that number is headed to a trillion-dollar.  

So, if we just stay on the course were on right now, Maria, that means in a few years were headed right back to trillion-dollar deficits.  


MOORE:  I never thought I'd see the day.

BARTIROMO:  And every time we talk, I always ask you the same question. And that is, OK, you want to cut taxes all of this much, but how do you pay for it?  But you've said to me in the past, that you're going to have several trillion dollars in spending cuts that will make up for any budget shortfall, is that right?

MOORE:  Well, a couple of things, Maria, first of all, we believe fervently that the most important thing right now to concentrate is get the economy moving.  You know, if we have one percent growth, you can't do any -- solve any of the problems, whether it's poverty, whether it's the budget deficit, whether it's creating high-paying jobs.  You're just not going to ever get there with one percent growth.

So, we -- our strategies go from one percent to four percent growth.  We think we can do that through our tax reduction plan.  And, by the way, energy production is a big one where you have a contrast between Hillary and Trump.  Trump wants to use all our resources.

But the point is, it let's say we could get the GDP growth up by 2 percentage points on, you're talking about reducing the debt over 10 years by four, five trillion dollars.  So, that's number one, you've got to get growth.  


MOORE:  Number two, we are going to cut spending.  We're going to, you know, looking at a lot of programs where we're either going to freeze them, or programs that just for wasting money, we're going to get rid of them.  

The other thing that is not focused on enough in the Trump plan, we're going to go a lot of those loopholes and especially for rich people.  I mean, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates and wealthy people are going to lose their deductions but they're gonna get a lower rate.  That's what Reagan did an `86 and it was a great reform of the tax system.

BARTIROMO:  But Hillary said that she's going to be helping small business. She says that Trump's plan doesn't help small business, that her plan helps small business.

MOORE:  Yes.  Well, I mean, that's small businesses.  So, you know, we're taxing every small business at fifteen percent.  She wants to take the tax rate on small businesses as high as 45 -- different nearly 50 percent.  

But more importantly, on the regulatory front, she was saying -- one thing she said is, you know, we're gonna make it easier for businesses to start -- the entrepreneurs to start new businesses.  

Great idea, Hillary, but you but you've endorsed every regulation there is out there that's prohibiting, you know, businesses from getting those -- that capital and those loans.  And I'll give you, one example.


MOORE:  Community banks are going away because of the Dodd-Frank bill.  You know this, you covered it.  If you get rid of Dodd-Frank community banks will come back and those are the Jimmy Stewart savings and loans that lend to the little corner grocery stores and the other small businesses bit of the spinal cord of our economy.

BARTIROMO:  Yes, that's really good point.  I know you said that each percentage point increase in growth means almost two and a half trillion dollars in lower borrowing.  So, going on one to four percent growth won't be that tough.

Steve, great to see you.  Thanks so much for connecting the dots for us.

MOORE:  OK, Maria.  Have a great week.

BARTIROMO:  We'll see you soon.  Stephen Moore there.

Vice President Joe Biden making quite a statement about when Guantanamo Bay will shut its doors.  A former CENTCOM commander will join me next on what the vice president said, what it means for the safety of the U.S.

We're looking at right now on "Sunday Morning Futures." Back in a minute.


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.

Vice President Joe Biden making some big news this past week, saying that he expects the prison at Guantanamo Bay to finally shut its doors before President Obama leaves office in January.

Let's talk about that, what it means for the U.S. at home and abroad, right now, with General Anthony Zinni, a retired US Marine and former CENTCOM commander.

General, so nice to have you on the program.  Welcome.

GEN. ANTHONY ZINNI, RETIRED, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Good to be with you, Maria.

BARTIROMO:  Do you expect that to take place?

ZINNI:  I think it will because it was a campaign promise, but the rush to do so put some very dangerous people beyond our control, and I think that's a real concern.

BARTIROMO:  We know that a large number of the people who have been let out have actually returned to the fight and are now once again practicing terrorism.  So, what kind of implications like that had -- the president made the promise, he wants to shut Guantanamo Bay, seems actually he's sticking to it.

ZINNI:  Well, the implications, obviously, that -- especially in the case of those who are leaders, that that may be perpetrated or laid their plan attacks on us and our allies will be back in business.  That's a real threat, and the alternative to keeping Guantanamo Bay open is just a farm them out to what we hope our countries that will keep control of these people there.

I don't know that there are assurances for that.  I think there's another model to look what look at, and that's what we did world war two -- the Allies had incarceration facilities that they maintained until the last prisoners had served in full sentences.  In some cases, life sentences, and I think this goes beyond just the United States obligation to hold these people, but all the out -- all our allies that were attacked, and there ought to be some mutual way we have a facility to hold them and maybe even amongst those nations and international tribunal that hears these cases and decides on their fate.

BARTIROMO:  So, you're saying an area should be created near the borders of some of it -- like a Syria and keep them in prison there?  Is that the alternative to shutting down Guantanamo Bay, or should Guantanamo Bay simply stay open?

ZINNI:  Well, whether it's quite where it is isn't it that important -- I mean, after World War 2, the facility was in Germany and it was maintained by the Allied Forces and cooperation and it was a shared burden.  So, wherever it's established, it doesn't have to be just the United States facility, you know, with obviously, ISIS attack France Belgium Turkey and on.

So, I think there ought to be some cooperative facilities set up I don't see this ending in the short term and we will pick up more of these characters on the battlefield and we don't have sort of a cooperative process for dealing with them and making sure they don't return to the fight as you indicated.

BARTIROMO:  So, what is the path forward, General?  I mean here we are two weeks away from September 11th, in the United States, the worst terrorist on our activities on our shores and yet, we still see this issue, terrorist wanting Americans dead bigger than ever.  What do you think the strategy ought to be and what kind of changes would you like to see in terms of our approach to ISIS and terrorism?

ZINNI:  I think the first thing that should happen is we ought to invoke Article Five and NATO treaty, an attack on one is an attack on all, and NATO, the greatest military alliance supposedly, we have ever had, ought to go in, with our allies in the region, those in the Gulf and others, and we ought to clean this out.

We keep waiting around for the muzzles that to fall, and the Rockets the fall, when we have the power to end this quickly and make sure they don't own any cities, terrain abused people and commit atrocities and what we see day in and day out on TV, and still have the wherewithal to radicalize and attack us.

Once we do that, we can work towards some sort of solution politically on the fate of Syria and Iraq, and it may not be to put those countries back together the way they were.  That's sort of a result of the Sykes-Picot agreement after World War I.  It has not worked and we ought to look for a new ways to maybe reconstruct that region in cooperation with our allies in that -- in that region, and with the groups that are being I think mauled by these people, the Yazidis, the Chaldeans, the Kurds, and others.


ZINNI:  That to me would be the best approach instead of this slow-dripping attrition that just hopes and prays we don't get attacked.

BARTIROMO:  General, it's great to have you on the program this morning. Thanks so much.

ZINNI:  Good to be with you.

BARTIROMO:  We'll see you soon.

ZINNI:  General Anthony Zinni there.

Let's get a look at what's coming up top of the hour, "MediaBuzz".  Howie Kurtz standing by right now.  

Howie, good morning to you.

HOWARD KURTZ, "MEDIABUZZ" HOST:  Good morning, Maria.

The Clinton Foundation finally getting some serious media scrutiny this week.  We'll look at why that is and what took so long.

Also, the candidates trading charges of racism and bigotry, Clinton and Trump.  How do we cover as journalists a campaign this descended into so much ugliness?

And also, this war between the Trump campaign in the media over whether his shifting language on immigration and deportations amounts to that favorite journalistic word of flip-flop?

BARTIROMO:  The technical there, flip-flop.

KURTZ:  Yes.

BARTIROMO:  All right.  Thanks so much.  I will see in about 20 minutes.

KURTZ:  Thanks.

BARTIROMO:  So, is Donald Trump backing away from his original tough- talking immigration policy.  We're going to talk about it next.  Is this a pivot?  Is it an evolution?  Our panel has some thoughts on that, and how it may affect his campaign.

We're looking ahead with an all-star panel next time, on "Sunday Morning Futures," right here.


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.  

Donald Trump sending some mixed messages this past week, indicating that he could soften his mass deportation plan which, of course, initially was aimed at building out the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

But now, it sounds like he's getting back to his original message.  Here's what he said in Iowa yesterday.


TRUMP:  On day one, I'm going to begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country, including removing the hundreds and thousands of criminal illegal immigrants that have been released into the United States and United States communities under the incompetent Obama-Clinton administration.


BARTIROMO:  On that note, let's bring in our panel.  

Ed Rollins is a former campaign manager for the Reagan-Bush ticket in 1984. He's part of a Trump super PAC.  

Jessica Tarlov with us.  She's a Democratic pollster and a strategist and a senior political analyst at Schoen Consulting.

And former New York Senator Alfonse D'Amato with us.  He's a Fox News contributor.

It is good to see, everybody.  Thank you so much for joining us.


BARTIROMO:  Ed, what's the stance from the Trump campaign on immigration now and has it actually been confusing and mixed?

ROLLINS:  It's been a little confusing this week, but my sense is -- it was a big primary issue.  It was very consistent.  He was going to build a wall.  He's going to get rid of illegal, criminals.  That's the backbone of this thing.  

He has to this week basically shut it down.  He has to basically -- here's what I'm going to do, can't let Christi be talking about it, can't let others be talking about it, here is my position.  Let's move forward.  
Let's get on things that matter.  

The economy is what matters.  I'm going to create jobs.  I can be a leader, she can't, and he has to be very specific the rest of the way.

BARTIROMO:  And the problem is, is the whole idea of deporting 11 million people, Jessica, is not doable or easy.

JESSICA TARLOV, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER & STRATEGIST:  No, I think it's going to cost about four hundred billion dollars, and it's also cruel, which in his most humane moment and talk about immigration, he mentioned that there are people who've been in this country 20, 30, 40 years whose children are Americans.  

And this is the man who started out talking about revoking birthright citizenship.  So, going back and forth here, I completely agree with Ed that he should lay it out plainly and clearly, but also be realistic.  
Everyone admits that you cannot deport these people and that you really shouldn't be and him saying, I'm going to deport the criminals, that's the Obama policy.  That's why people call him the deporter in chief.


TARLOV:  So, it's ridiculous and it shows Kellyanne Conway can obviously read polls and see that over sixty percent of Americans do favor a pathway to citizenship, and I guess they paid attention to that for 20 minutes. And now, we're on the other side of it again.

ROLLINS:  But you do have to tighten this border.  People are very worried about the Syrian refugees.  They're worried about terrorism coming in here. You need to get rid of the criminals as fast as quickly as you can, enhance the Obama and then move on and just it's -- there's a lot of other you're going to talk about.

BARTIROMO:  That's what resonates with people, the fact that the borders aren't secure.

ALFONSE D'AMATO, R-FORMER NEW YORK SENATOR:  You got catastrophe at the borders, and I would back it up by saying, we should use our troops to help supplement.  Why I was building the wall?  The supplement the borders because the border agents 16,000 can't do it.

And let's see that the laws are enforced.  Don't let people come in.  You turn them right back.


D'AMATO:  So, we're not turning them back.  We are not deporting the criminal aliens to the extent that we should be.  It's been a failed program.  You see these tragic murders and incidents and horrific crimes being committed by those who were incarcerated and then allowed back out on the streets.  Let's not kid ourselves.

BARTIROMO:  It was very scary situation.

D'AMATO:  It is horrific.

BARTIROMO:  And that's why people are fearful about it, Jessica.  And then there's the whole narrative around Hillary Clinton.

TARLOV:  Right.

BARTIROMO:  Let's get into that for a second, because piece-by-piece, bit- by-bit, Giuliani earlier called it "death by a thousand cuts".  We keep getting more information showing a conflict -- a real conflict of interest that did compromise the American people while she was secretary of state.

TARLOV:  Absolutely, and I think that's why we saw The Washington Post and USA Today both come out with editorial saying that the Clinton Foundation needs to be taken away from the Clintons.  Not closed down, they have done a ton of good work around the world and I really hate that we don't have that discussion because it's important to especially their HIV/AIDS program.

But the idea that the Clinton Foundation could be moved to be under the control of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is interesting to me.  I mean, we want to make sure that we preserve the good works and get rid of any auspices of conflict of interest.

So, I want Hillary Clinton just like I want to hear from Trump what the immigration plan is.  I want her to say clearly what it is that they are going to do with the Clinton Foundation, and he says me yesterday, look, by them saying, we're going to stop accepting foreign donations after the election, you're basically saying, come on, foreigners, give me the money.

ROLLINS:  No question.

BARTIROMO:  We're open for business for the next two months.

ROLLINS:  The question I raise is, 16 years ago, Bill Clinton left office. They were broke.  They now have two hundred million dollars.  She was a senator and the secretary of state for 12 of those years, he was the full- time worker and what he basically did is build the Clinton Foundation and made $200 million.  

Now, that's ridiculous and my sense today is they had signed agreements with the president when they took that job, and they violated them every single day.  And they need to explain when someone walks into those office, the 85 people that came in but giving the Clinton Foundation -- what did they ask for, what did they get?

D'AMATO:  Let me show you this to you -- the business of just saying, well, 85 people came in and they gave a hundred some odd million and they had access, you have to be more specific.  And I think Mayor Giuliani did a great job with specificity, because I can't believe that we are not asking the kinds of questions.  

Secretary Clinton, when you with secretary, did you permit by way of your voting, or your designee voting to allow the Russians to purchase our uranium?  Did the foundation get a hundred and thirty-five million dollars as a result of that?  Did you a second time -- a second time -- allow the uranium, which is a strategic asset to be exported?  Isn't it true that you wouldn't let the Chinese buy a port (ph) because you said it would endanger our national security?  And, by the way, you can't build an atomic bomb without uranium.


D'AMATO:  And who did the Russian sell the uranium to?  Iran.


D'AMATO:  Now, let me ask you why did you do it?  And that's the kind of specificity that we should be bringing up, that Donald Trump should be bringing up, to get this business --  

TARLOV:  But this always -- this proves the point that it seems like every other Republican is better at asking questions and getting to the issues than Donald Trump.  I mean, I hear it time after time, every pundit who was out there.  They're calmer and they're more pointed.

D'AMATO:  The point is -- the point is that that is dynamite, because you cannot explain I think to anybody's satisfaction why you took $135 million and allow the Russians to buy our uranium.

BARTIROMO:  Right.  Look, we'll see if he can make this case at the 26 debate September.

ROLLINS:  He has a couple weeks to get this thing together.


ROLLINS:  And the reality is neither campaign is running very well.  Your campaign is not raising with lots of money, but she's not defending herself, she's not doing a very effective job.  There's sort of a freeze mode.

Trump is kind of stepping all over himself.  He has all the stuff in the world, from the lousy economy, to all the things that Obama has done, to the Iranian deals, to what have you, you just need to take like your prosecutor and go prosecutor for the next 60 days.

BARTIROMO:  And speaking of the president, unfulfilled promise 17 months in the making by President Obama to the family of ISIS hostage Kayla Mueller, murdered by the terrorist group.  What we're hearing about that now.

We're looking ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures." Our panel will get into that next. Stay with us.


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back.

The White House having some trouble explaining why President Obama has not donated money to a charity in the name of an ISIS hostage and murder victim Kayla Mueller.  This despite reportedly promising Mueller's parents 17 months ago that he would contribute.

I want to bring back our panel here, Ed Rollins, Jessica Tarlov, and former New York Senator Alfonse D'Amato.

What do you make of this, guys?

ROLLINS:  It would have been easy promise to have lived up to.  You should have -- you know, when you make a promise like that, that's a commitment that you just need to basically fulfill it.

BARTIROMO:  Why do you think he isn't?

ROLLINS:  You know, I don't -- who knows what's going on the State Department.  I mean, obviously, he's not getting good counsel on that front and I think to a certain extent that they're willing to give Iran $400 million to get four hostages free and I lie about it.

TARLOV:  We got other stuff to do.

ROLLINS:  Yes, right.

BARTIROMO:  Well, that's the thing.  I mean, we just gave Iran $400 million, Jessica.

ROLLINS:  A hundred million dollars a hostage.  I mean, it's just -- it's a pretty, pretty high rate, and then to lie about it, as they did is just absurd.  

D'AMATO:  I think that he hit the nail right on the head is preposterous and they'll be doing something quickly because the politicians over there will say what are we doing?


D'AMATO:  And they'll overrule the State Department, which has made one terrible decision after another, and it is incredible.

And so, to have the president of the United States make a commitment like that and then not do it with an easy thing --  

BARTIROMO:  Well, the father of Kayla, who was killed, said on ABC's "Good Morning America", "I'm still waiting for that donation, Mr. President."

TARLOV:  Right.  Yes, and I saw that a spokesperson said that he still intends to make it.  

My big issue with this is your first of all live up to your commitment, but also if you're going to go out there and you're going to rail on Donald Trump for all the times that he promised veterans money and, you know, we have no idea what his charitable donations are, that we need to take the higher road here like Michelle Obama said in her speech of the DNC, when they go low, we go high.  

Go high, give the donation, make your case against Donald Trump and the Republican.  So, I hope that this solved quickly.

ROLLINS:  The problems is that they need to go high, everybody's going low, and we need to have an obligation this country has very severe economic crisis.  We have a severe ISIS crisis, basically start talking about issues that matter to American people.

BARTIROMO:  Absolutely.  We're going to come right back after this short break and get the panels reaction to what is the most important thing to watch in the week ahead and weeks ahead, on SUNDAY MORNING FUTURES.  Back in a moment.


BARTIROMO:  Welcome back with the panel right now.

What's the big thing to watch in the weeks ahead?  

Ed Rollins?

ROLLINS:  Hillary's raising a ton of money this week.  Trump basically has to go to a second commercial and hopefully, it'll be about the economy or something basically punish ordinary people.

BARTIROMO:  So, that's what we watch, how they're going to come up --  

ROLLINS:  I would tie Hillary and Obama to this very, very weak economy to talk jobs.



TARLOV:  I'm looking to see more about this minority outreach the Trump has been doing we saw yesterday, those horrific tweet about Dwayne Wade, the tragic passing of his cousin in Chicago where Donald Trump, you know, brought that around so that he's going to win the African-American vote because someone was shot.

So, I'm interested if he's going to win 95 percent of black vote by 2020. I'd like to hear how that's actually going to happen.


TARLOV:  I'll see if you can soften a little bit, because he's losing every demographic right now.  So, he needs more minority votes than he's getting.

BARTIROMO:  Senator?

D'AMATO:  If WikiLeaks dropped some or all of the 30,000 emails that Hillary and her lawyers destroyed, that could be the atomic bomb that really, really is devastating to Hillary's campaign.

BARTIROMO:  All right.  We will leave there.  

Great panel.  Thanks, everybody.  Appreciate it.

ROLLINS:  Thank you.

TARLOV:  Thank you.

BARTIROMO:  Thanks for joining us this morning on "Sunday Morning Futures."  

Join me tomorrow on the Fox Business Network.  I'm come back on "Morning with Maria", 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. Eastern, Fox Business Network.  See you then.

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