Sign in to comment!

The Five

Can Donald Trump sway African-American voters?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 17, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, I'm Eric Bolling with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and 3 o'clock in Boulder, Colorado. And this is "The Five."

Donald Trump is back in New York where this afternoon he held a roundtable meeting on security and counter terrorism. He also received his first classified briefing. This comes right after a rally in Wisconsin last night near the sight of the violent riots in Milwaukee over a fatal police shooting. Trump outlined his law and order vision for America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I wear their opposition as a badge of honor because it means I'm fighting for real change, not just partisan change where everybody else gets rich but you. I'm fighting all of us across the country are fighting for peaceful regime change in our own country. The media donor political complex that's bled this country dry has to be replaced with a new government of, by, and for the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: In the wake of mayhem in Milwaukee, Trump also vowed to protect all-Americans and reached out to African-American voters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The main victims of these riots are law abiding African-American citizens living in these neighborhoods. It's their job, it's their homes, it's their schools and communities which will suffer the most as a result. There's no compassion in tolerating lawless conduct.

Crime and violence is an attack on the poor and will never be accepted in a Trump administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right. I got to go to you, Juan. Your thoughts, did Trump change your mind at all last night in Milwaukee?

JUAN WILLIAMS, GUEST CO-HOST: No. I mean, I know Trump for what he is. I mean, Trump is speaking to white fears and anxiety and resentment, especially in the after math of the riot. So he didn't deliver that speech, for example, in Milwaukee. He goes 40 miles outside and speaks to a 95 percent white community, and then he starts speaking about the kind of misbehavior. Now, where he would have appealed to the black community is when he starts to say, hey, the Democrats, what have they done in Milwaukee, what have they done in other big cities? What about improving the schools? What about real policy change? Now, there, I thought he might have something to say. But, don't forget, Eric, this is a guy who was tweeting, oh, yeah, black people kill most white people in America. Sorry, that's not true. Here's the guy who said President Obama, he wasn't born here, he's a birther. This is ridiculous. So he has no reservoir of good faith, not only in the black community, but in the Latino community.

BOLLING: Right. So, Juan, you wanted to talk a little bit about the economic policy. But this, KG -- this is law and order speech that he was going to deliver.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I thought it was well executed, just like straight from my college days of rhetoric in communication, you know? It's a very good speech, solid, well written, well delivered. I think he's getting more, you know, disciplined, starting to stay on message, so I think that's important to do because you have to start now, you know, building roads to get others to try to get on board with your campaign, especially this close, you know, out to the general election. Days are slipping away very quickly. So I think that is good. Also, I felt like he was trying to re-energize his base and also re-establish, take the mantle again as the outsider while still focusing on the need to preserve law and order in America. I think those are themes that everybody could agree with in that sentence.

BOLLING: So, what do you think, Greg? Had Trump gone into a -- what, largely African-American venue, would he be able to deliver the speech? Would he be interrupted in protests and whatnot?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: That's why, in his defense, this is kind of a losing proposition. He's doing a speech in which he wants to persuade people who are not listening to him and he's speaking to people who are already agree with him. So, basically, this goes nowhere. He doesn't have to re-energize his base. His base is highly caffeinated. He needs to find new blood. There are two things he can do. That speech was designed for cable shows to talk about how well it was. He should have spoke before the NAACP. However, we know what might happen. He will be heckled, he might be disrespected, but he will at least seem brave for doing that. And he might actually win the respect of other black leaders for saying I'm going to go out there and I'm going to take my licks and I don't care about it. He can do that and I think he should still do that. The other thing, too, is he can repeat these things when he's on a debate stage because there will be people, come the debate, who haven't seen him yet articulate this, who didn't tune in to this because they don't like him.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-huh.

GUTFELD: But they maybe forced to see him and go, you know what, he's making some good points here. But in this particular case, it's a no win situation. Whoever's listening already knows and the people he wants to listen aren't interested.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on did he lose by not putting the venue in the middle of where the riots were? I mean, I think Sheriff David Clarke who is in Milwaukee, right, if I'm not mistaken about that?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah.

BOLLING: I think he was OK with this.

PERINO: Probably. I think I agree with things that are said so far. One of the things he says is that Hillary Clinton is a bigot and that she is pandering to the black community, but she gets a 91 percent approval rating with African-Americans. And I don't know if you can say she's pandering. Now, I agree that liberal policies in a lot of municipalities, in particular, especially on education and schools, have been a huge problem. And here he is again in Wisconsin, just two weeks ago was it or was it last week, where he had to -- remember, he read the endorsement of Paul Ryan who won his race by 66 percent. He's in Wisconsin. Paul Ryan arguably has the best antipoverty inner city policy changes that he's already teed up. That was one of the things that Trump and Ryan first talked about, and could agree upon that Trump would try to advance those policy agenda. He had a whole plethora of things that he could have talked about. Instead, it was the Democrats in the Senate who kept blocking these proposals that could have helped your communities. So if you're talk to go that community last night, and that's your audience, and they agree with you, but you might have skeptical Republicans that are sort of looking for a way to see how are you going to unite the party, he missed an opportunity to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You mentioned that the bigot comment, I think we have a sound of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We reject the bigotry of Hillary Clinton which panders to and talks down to communities of color and sees them only as votes, that's all they care about, not as individual human beings worthy of a better future.

She doesn't care at all about the hurting people of this country or the suffering she has caused them and she, meaning she and her party officials.

The African-American community has been taken for granted for decades by the Democratic Party and look how they're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Greg, will you take this?

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, it's a fair point. I mean, Juan, you agree that.

WILLIAMS: I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And he talked about this.

GUTFELD: Because they vote dedicatedly to the Democrats, Democrats don't have to do much. But the point is, assigning blame is important if you aren't interested in actually winning more people. At this point, you have to unify and you have to be better. You have to take the high road even if Hillary calls you a bigot, you have to say, whatever. This is not about assigning blame. I want to actually talk to people about this and these are real problems and talk about -- and talk about specifically how the Democratic Party has harmed the black community, which you brought up earlier. But I'm not sure assigning blame at this point is helpful, especially to an audience that agrees with you.

WILLIAMS: Right. I just want to say, I think it's totally legitimate to say Democrats take black votes for granted in terms of saying here are the real results of our policies and how we've improved the quality of your life. On the other hand, Republicans ignore the black vote, and I would say, you know, after 12 you saw efforts by the RNC, the Republican National Committee, in fact, saying we're going to put more money, time, effort into reaching out not only to blacks, to Latinos, to women, to young people that are now fleeing Trump. But instead, what Trump has done is he has pulled away because he has gone back to what you, Greg, were describing as his base, that angry white male voter. And he has said I'm doubling down. I think later in the next segment, we're going to talk about how he's doubling down in terms of the people he's bringing on staff. You don't see him bringing on people on staff who are about reaching out to the black community, much less the Latino community. And Paul Ryan, my God, remember, Paul Ryan is the guy who said his behavior or views of that judge who's Hispanic was the definition of racism.

BOLLING: OK. But, again, let's stay on topic here. Dana points out and Juan points out that there are economic policies that may better make his case, KG., with the black community. However, again, a law enforcement, law and order speech, that's what he focused on.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, that's the focus. And the point is, yeah, I think policy speeches are good to be delivered in a clear, coherent way to have some specifics, to make people decide whether or not they want to choose him based on his ideas that he's generated and that he's communicating. So do you have a law and order speech, you focus on that. There's another speech, you can focus on the economy, jobs, all of that. That's a strong suit for him. We saw that in a lot of the exit polling that was coming out on primaries, et cetera, that people were really caring about that. At the end of the day, people do want to make sure they can put gas in the car, food on the table, send their kids to school with clothes on their back and all of the above. So that's what he has to do. I mean, don't get drawn into the personal attack stuff and whatnot. I don't like him talking about, you know, that Hillary Clinton, et cetera. She sort of got that 91 percent shored up like go where you can get some and that's independents and try and do better as well with women.

BOLLING: Can I take something on what Greg said, if you really want to get the vote, then you should go after the vote and go after the vote full frontal force right in the middle of the vote. If he's never going to get the vote anyway, I mean, isn't that enough of an outreach saying, hey, look, I recognize it. I want your vote. I'm asking for your vote, but should he go that extra yard?

PERINO: He's got 83 days left until the election.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

PERINO: So, you know, an early voting starts in about four weeks. So I can see that point. I do think that one thing that he could do, all of these problems are made easier to solve if there's more economic growth.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: And he does well on those questions in polls. That's one of the places that he does really well. What he might be able to do is say to them, I understand that you're likely to vote black community, I understand that you're likely to vote for Hillary Clinton, fine. But I just ask you, challenge her. Challenge her how she's going to change things, how is she going to get your respect, and really try to drive home on the economic growth message. Because if he wants to be president, it's not just that you have to win on November 8th, you have to leave this nation for the next four years. And hopefully, he would run for re-election.

BOLLING: Can I jump in here, Dana. I'm sorry, I want to get this last piece of sound.

PERINO: Sure.

BOLLING: We will react to this. Trump also blasts Clinton for not supporting law enforcement. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Just like Hillary Clinton is against the miners, she is against the police, believe me. Those peddling, the narrative of cops as a racist force in our society, a narrative supported with a nod by my opponent shared directly in the responsibility for the unrest in Milwaukee and many other places within our country. They have fostered the dangerous anti- police atmosphere in America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: It's kind of a common belief. Is he accurate?

PERINO: Is that for me?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Is Donald Trump accurate in saying that the Democrats fostered this with the police?

PERINO: Well, remember, I understand why they're making that argument, but remember early on when she was having -- at one of her primary events, Black Lives Matter member that came in, they interrupted her, they interrupted Bill Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: They were actually thinking she hadn't done enough for the black community. She of late has tried to balance a little bit more, but there is the case of whether or not she's going to go after -- go for the police union's endorsement. And I don't know if she will or not, maybe she already has made that decision. But I don't know if it's fair to say that she's against the police. She didn't say she wanted to put the police out of business. She did say she wants to put the miners out of business.

WILLIAMS: I would say this about this. He has a point. Let's talk about economic policies, let's talk about schools. I think Donald Trump has a strong point to make and especially about Democrats taking black voters for granted and black voters not doing enough to push back. But when he comes to this idea that somehow she is peddling a narrative of racist cops as if it's a fantasy, she'll get those silly black people to vote for her, well, essentially what he's doing is undercutting, ignoring, deriding legitimate arguments about excessive use of force by police against black people. And, again, you can make a point of what happened in Ferguson, there was no hands-up and all the rest, but you can't ignore that the Justice Department, they also said there was no hands-up and also said, hey, that Ferguson police department, full of racist behavior and attitudes, same thing in Baltimore, same thing in Chicago.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Trump was talking about Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. Now, if you look at the two -- we attended both conventions. It was clearly, clearly a more open armed embrace of law enforcement with Republicans than the Democrats.

GUTFELD: Not just that. From our experience, the police are way more on the side of a Republican than a Democrat just because they feel that they're not being supported by the Democratic Party.

BOLLING: No. I just wanted to make note that one of the first speakers or groups of speakers at the DNC was the mothers of Trayvon martin, of Michael Brown, of Eric Garner, family members, and not -- law enforcement wasn't represented at that time.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And so the problem is, yeah, many in law enforcement felt that, you know and feel -- by the way, in this country right now, with the mood that they aren't being respected or, you know, appreciated, or they have targets on their back. So that's also I think, Juan, that's an issue that needs to be addressed as well, that should also be given measure.

WILLIAMS: I couldn't agree more.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: I think you have to respect law enforcement. I do think that if we're talking about the politics, Kimberly, when you are talking to black people in this country, they'll tell you they have a difficult relationship regardless of class with the police. And so if you're talking to politicians, you appreciate a politician who says, well, wait a second, we love cops, but we don't appreciate the idea that people especially because of their children live in fear of what happens when the police.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They live in more fear of the criminal than they do the cop and the media has to reverse that recipe and it's now like oh, they've exaggerated, they've taken isolated cases, and made them into a phenomenon. Having said that, a person can address that issue, they always have to add a but. This is a terrible thing, but law enforcement is this, but law enforcement is great, but, there has to be this balance.

GUILFOYLE: There's always an equivocation.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: I have to butt in right now.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Stay tuned to Fox News for a special one hour town hall edition of Hannity featuring Donald Trump. That's at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. You don't want to miss that.

But up next, speaking of Trump, he's making big changes to his campaign. Greg has the details when we return. Yeah.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: You could call it a pivot. After giving what was meant to be a vital speech, Donald Trump crashed his own press cycle by hiring Steve Bannon from the right-wing site Breitbart to run a campaign that trails in all 11 battleground states. He also hired Kellyanne Conway. Disclosure: I worked closely with Andrew Breitbart for a while, and I knew him well.

Now, some will cheer this change. But Trump already has them in his pocket and they can't vote twice. That's the problem: Trump's numbers are as horizontal as Utah salt flats while Hillary's are rising. Trump has his base and he loves feeding it, but he starves for new converts. So did he hire who will broaden his appeal or just a mirror that indulges his worst impulses?

Given that the Breitbart site of late has embraced conspiracies, I worry. Could Trump land the Lindberg kidnapping on Tim Kaine's harmonica? Remember, conspiracies never resonate beyond the obsessive who tweets in all caps. Here they come. At any rate, you can make all the changes you want, if the nominee can't change, it's like putting a shirt on an ape, it's still an ape.

But maybe that's good. At least Bannon is out of the closet working for Trump, a departure from the covert water-carrying many still deny. Bannon did the right thing and put a ring on it. How many others will do the same?

GUILFOYLE: That's funny.

GUTFELD: Yes, I used a little Beyonce there.

GUILFOYLE: I love it. I knew you were a secret Beyonce fan.

GUTFELD: Not so secret anymore. Bannon's never run a campaign, Kellyanne is a pollster. We know Bannon has trashed (ph) this network, you know when he was over at Breitbart, made fun of the hosts here. What do you think of this? I don't know, good, bad?

GUILFOYLE: I think these are obviously people he has become increasingly more comfortable or familiar with. As to Kellyanne Conway, I think that was an outstanding move. She's super bright, articulate. She is outstanding with polls, for sure. She's worked for Ted Cruz's campaign.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: I think she understands field operations and kind of expanding the campaign in that regard. She was very much on message this morning when she was on with Martha and Bill talking about this being an expansion of the team and very aptly able to deflect any kind of criticism saying, wait a second, it's Paul Manafort still in charge, et cetera. So I think he's going to do well with her by his side. I'm sure she can be very helpful for him when it also comes to debate prep against Hillary Clinton and things that should be on or off limits, and how to handle and maneuver that as well. I think it's good that he has a woman of that kind of intelligence, that caliber, and experience on his campaign. I think it reflects well. I mean, smart move.

GUTFELD: Dana, what do you think about this? Is this going to change his campaign? He surrounds himself with friends and family for a reason, because they like -- you know, they like him. He feels comfortable, but do they challenge him?

PERINO: Well, not really. I mean, one of the things that Breitbart has done really well lately is try to find like one poll that will disavow every other poll that is out there. When I woke up this morning, I don't care who he has in charge of his campaign, it doesn't bother me, but when the campaign wants to complain that the media doesn't cover Hillary Clinton's e-mail scandal, which we're going to do in the next block, then you can't give a speech like the one last night that you want to give seriously and within four hours make another huge campaign announcement. I mean, 11 weeks to go until the election and you now have a new CEO of the campaign, a campaign manager, campaign chairman. That is significant. If the press is given the option of covering a substantive conversation or a process point 11 weeks before a campaign, they will take the process point every single time. So please stop complaining that the media isn't covering Hillary Clinton's scandals because you don't give them room to do it.

GUTFELD: And shouldn't he have waited so people would talk more about his speech? Did it have to come out now?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Look, the covert water-carrying comment, I assume you're talking about no one at this table.

GUTFELD: Never.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I'm talking about Juan.

BOLLING: Let's talk about what Trump did.

GUILFOYLE: Juan.

BOLLING: Some Paul Manafort -- issues surrounding Paul Manafort regarding lobbying.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Like ties to Russia, taking money from them.

BOLLING: Right. Right. Right. So he very smartly removed Paul Manafort. He was at the table today in the security briefing, the whole thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Allow me to finish. He brings in Steve Bannon. He is a street fighter. I don't know anyone who is a match for Steve Bannon. You and I both know Steve Bannon a long time, back from the Andrew Breitbart days. You would rather be a friend of Bannon than an enemy.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: No, but Hillary Clinton is in the crossroads of Steve Bannon right now.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He went after Megyn Kelly, he went after you.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: There is going to be a debate stage. Now, Trump needs someone behind him that's going to have all the ammunition he needs to take on Hillary Clinton. I think Bannon brings that. Kellyanne Conway, brilliant, smart pollster, also very close with the kids. She is very tight with all the kids and Jared Kushner as well. She brings something. She brings a calming tone to the campaign. I think they did well. These polls, Dana, honestly, we have to stop with these polls. They're insane with the polls. Just look what's going on. You're looking at a Trump rally and there's 12, 15,000 people.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And then you look at Hillary Clinton, and you have, I don't know 1500, 2,000.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: That's a real disservice.

BOLLING: That's the poll, 82 days out.

PERINO: It's a real disservice to.

BOLLING: To whom?

PERINO: . his supporters to lie to them that those polls don't matter. You cannot take 12,000 people at a rally that are your definite supporters and they're going to show up and say the polls are wrong.

BOLLING: She doesn't have that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: The one person sitting at home still cancels it out.

PERINO: It's not fair.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Here's why polls shouldn't matter or shouldn't ever matter. You pick up the phone and you say, who are you going to vote for? That person on the other end of the phone says, well, I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You're not out there voting. The people getting out in the street and going to a rally, those are the people who have been up off the couch and go hear something and go say something.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You're saying they're motivated?

BOLLING: Size of crowds is more indicative of the following or even polling.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I would say a person sitting home getting up to vote cancels out the person there. It's the same value.

PERINO: That's exactly what they said in 2012. The people that supported Romney were told the polls are wrong, Romney is going to win. They were so mad and disappointed.

GUTFELD: Yeah, they stopped watching because they thought we lied to them.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: And we deserved it. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Kellyanne Conway this morning talking to Bill and Martha said the polls are right, but they think that the polls can be turned around.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: She's a pollster.

BOLLING: No one's saying.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: She's a pollster.

BOLLING: Snapshot in time.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I'm saying there's a consistent pair. It's not this poll, that poll, it's all the polls. So here's the thing that strikes me. You go from Lewandowski and go to Manafort and you say, we are going to pivot. We're going to have a more serious structured campaign. He has given up on that. Now, he's saying I want to get back to Trump being Trump, and I'm going to bring in a bare knuckle street fighter like Bannon.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: More like Corey Lewandowski.

WILLIAMS: I have had it, forget Manafort. Manafort now is window dressing. And it seems to me he's doing exactly what Greg is talking about. He's talking to his base, he's firing up his base. He's not doing outreach to people, and forget women, forget Hispanics, get everybody.

GUTFELD: Juan, why is he doing that? It isn't about the election. It's about the day after the election when you have Bannon, and you have Trump, and you have the invisible hand creating a new network.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's possible.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I'm right.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He knows that I'm right. This is not about the election, this is about after.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: This is on tape, right?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right. They're telling me to leave for some reason. Why would they do that?

Up next, Hillary's e-mail scandal unravels. The FBI now turning over all the notes to Congress. What's this mean for Clinton next?

**

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: New developments in the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal. The FBI giving its notes on Hillary Clinton's interview to the House Oversight Committee. The heavily-redacted documents are drawing criticism from Republicans, saying it only provides further proof of Hillary's recklessness. The notes contained such sensitive information that some lawmakers don't have the security clearance to read them in full.

Charles Krauthammer believes this scandal will catch up with her before the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR; She's had all of these slings and arrows thrown at her. The e-mail story, the requests for the investigation about her lying to Congress, which is a felony. All of these things are happening, and he kept stepping on the story.

There will be time in which they're going to hide him in a box in the Trump Tower in the attic. And he'll be in there for a couple of days, and these stories will come out; and she will be damaged. So I think there will be a turn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: That's kind of what you were just saying, that you've got to let some of these scandals that Hillary -- she's the gift that keeps on giving. Let it breathe, give it some air so that it can resonate.

PERINO: A lot of things about running a campaign is understanding the timing of sets of things. So when you have something going your way, you know, step aside. Let her have to answer all of these.

I think it's interesting. I do agree that the polls will tighten up before the election. I think it's a big lead that she has seen now, will not be the big lead she goes into election day with.

And I also wonder about what Tim Kaine said -- I'm sorry, have we played that yet?

GUILFOYLE: We're not going to play it.

PERINO: We're not going to play it. So Tim Kaine, the vice-presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton side, has said he thinks the FBI should release them publicly, which to me says they feel pretty comfortable that there's nothing in there.

Because it will erode the lead dramatically, or it would be so much so that they would have to worry about any of the states that they've already stopped having to run ads in.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, because I think they -- they know...

PERINO: They probably know what's in there.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, otherwise, there's no chance that would have been released, I think. I don't know.

All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's kind of a bummer, because this is a national issue with national security implications. If she gets away with it, then everybody can do it. Anybody -- because she's setting the precedent.

And the problem is, the benefit of Trump is also his consequences. He -- he is so magnetic that he gets all -- everything towards him, and that's why he -- Krauthammer's right. You've got to put him in a box to let this scandal unfold. Because you have 90 days. Anything could happen. And oftentimes elections are dictated by events that are out of your hands.

So, I mean, if he just -- if he just went on vacation for a week, they'd have to cover Hillary or they'd cover his vacation.

GUILFOYLE: They'd cover -- I like that little image, though, that Krauthammer portrays, Eric, of Trump Towers. That Trump will be, like, locked up in Trump...

BOLLING: You know what Krauthammer said, that bite where he said where she should be locked up for lying to Congress. What he's referencing is Rand Paul specifically asked Hillary Clinton during the Benghazi hearings if she had any knowledge of weapons moving in and out of the annex, the CIA annex. She said unequivocally no.

Now, apparently, there's a -- WikiLeaks has their hands on an e-mail saying that she, in fact, did know that this was going on. Now Rand Paul says that, if that's true and WikiLeaks releases this e-mail, you have her dead to right in a lie to Congress, which comes with it something like a five- year prison term. So I think...

GUILFOYLE: It's a felony.

BOLLING: Here's the bottom line: release the e-mails, because I think you're going to find more stuff.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, perhaps, Juan. And it's the October surprise that we've been hearing much about.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's a lot of wishful thinking. Because I think the polls are so strong, and everybody thinks, "Oh, my gosh, Hillary's got it."

But I think that's a mistake. I think Charles Krauthammer is right. The narrative, just the media narrative. The media wants a contest.

PERINO: Yes.

WILLIAMS: They're going to do something to help drive the idea. This is a close race. You've got to watch. You've got to read. You've got to listen.

And, you know, to me when the FBI released the data, it was very interesting. They first -- they redacted lots of stuff. So actually, Republicans are complaining that there's not enough revealed to them.

And secondly, the FBI said, "Well, you know, we don't have any second thoughts about the fact that we did not prosecute, because there's no evidence of any gross negligence."

So you take it for what it is. It's worry and by the Republicans on the Hill that they've got to do something to help Trump. And maybe they'll find something. They can stir up...

CUOMO: It is their nominee after all.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, let me tell you. They don't feel so great about that now.

GUTFELD: I wish I could redact my past. So unfair that you can redact stuff. Why can't -- all citizens should be allowed to redact something.

PERINO: That's what happened in Europe when they went after Google, remember? They wanted the right to be forgotten.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: I'm going. K.G.'s going.

When we come back, Aetna's withdrawal from many Obamacare exchanges prompts a fierce political debate leading up to the election. The nominees battle on the future of the health care law next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: All right. Aetna's decision to withdraw from Obamacare exchanges in nearly a dozen states could potentially rock the election. Donald Trump addressed the insurance giant's move in last night's speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to get rid of Obamacare, repeal it and replace it. It's caused soaring double-digit premium increases, and we're going to give choice to patients and to consumers across our land. Aetna just today announced that they are dropping out, as are many of the major insurance companies. Obamacare is a disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Hillary has yet to respond to this latest news but has recently thrown her support behind Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are going to build on the Affordable Care Act; and we're going to get the costs of premiums, co-pays and deductibles down. And we are going to tackle the high cost of prescription drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Flat-out lie.

PERINO: Yes. We all want to know how.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. How?

PERINO: How, Eric? It's not possible. The math doesn't work.

BOLLING: You can't. Yes, you can get it down to individuals by doing what she wants to do. She doesn't want to build on Obamacare. She wants to replace Obamacare with Hillarycare, which is basically a government paid single payer system where everyone can get it depending on your income. It's the price, and the government eats the balance. That's how you do it.

The problem is that brings the cost down to the individual, but it raises the cost to the taxpayer, who's going to end up eating...

PERINO: You pay either way.

BOLLING: Well, half the...

PERINO: For care.

BOLLING: Half the population pays for all of the population.

PERINO: Thirty-seven times, Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: Paul Ryan tweeted this yesterday, the speaker of the House, that 37 times President Obama promised, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know.

PERINO: If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance. That is not happening. And this is just the latest company to pull out. It's not the only one.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Multiple choice, which one of those things are false? A, B, C or D, all of the above. All of the above. I mean, that's what's so frustrating to me. Health care is a serious issue. And it should be contemplated and executed in a thoughtful, specific, careful way so that people aren't further harmed, just like we talk about with the V.A. with, you know, our veterans. This is serious business.

And when you say -- Hillary Clinton says she's going to bring it down, bring down the costs, bring down the -- and all this. How is she going to do it? She has no problem saying that, and people want to sit there and, like, you know, clap and then guess what? It's not going to happen.

So she's been part of the problem. And that's more of what people think about her is you can't trust her, because she has a loose relationship with the truth; and she'll say anything to get elected.

PERINO: Juan, do you think that she can find some middle ground, where that if -- even if in her heart she wants Hillarycare, that would turn off a lot of the voters that might be looking for her. Can she find some sort of middle ground? Because she's no doubt hearing that Obamacare is holding back wage growth and job promotion.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think what she's hearing at the moment from various people who are backers of Obamacare is that the move by Aetna may have some relationship to their attempt to have a merger with Humana and all the...

PERINO: This was a business decision.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Because just a few months ago Mark Bertolini, who's the CEO of Aetna, was saying, "This is good. We've got a million-plus new customers." And of course, the Obama people are saying you've got 90 percent now Americans with health insurance, a big jump, as a result of Obamacare.

So I come back to Bernie Sanders who wants the public options that Eric is talking about.

PERINO: He wants the Medicare for all.

WILLIAMS: Medicare for all. So the push, the fear on the part of conservatives is that's what's your -- the real agenda is here. The fear on the part of the left wing is, "Hey, you know what? Trump has no answer. And they will allow Obamacare to go away. And the people who have gained insurance will again lose insurance, and America will suffer. And the insurance companies will just feast. And they'll charge whatever they want. No more coverage for pre-existing conditions, no more coverage for your kids who don't have coverage."

PERINO: Greg, this must drive you crazy. Because you're -- you're a small government guy.

GUTFELD: Yes, I am. And I'm a small guy.

PERINO: True. It goes hand in hand.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Do you think that the government is going to expand under either? Because the gloomy headlines for either candidate who wins, they're going to have to deal with this Obamacare hot potato.

GUTFELD: What's the difference between the Titanic and Obamacare? One sunk and one is being subsidized so it can't, but should sink. They're keeping it afloat because they can't admit that it's wrong.

Take a simple comparison. If you look at Lasik or cosmetic surgery in general, you know how much it costs. Why? Because it's not insured. But once you've slapped insurance on something, a pill in the hospital costs $30. One aspirin will cost 30 bucks. That's where it -- that's where it goes.

When nobody knows how much something is, then the costs can be anything. I think we have to address that.

I think you can pick from all sorts of different plans and create something where you have catastrophic insurance with, you know, a high deductible but low monthlies. Come up with something, you know, that doesn't -- it doesn't have to be this or this.

BOLLING: They have that. It's called the free market for insurance.

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BOLLING: You don't want that anymore.

PERINO: I would want that, because I want to call somebody to find out how do you get rid of an air-conditioning-related cold.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: If you know something, let me know.

GUTFELD: Blame it on air conditioning.

PERINO: Directly ahead, Ellen DeGeneres on the defense after getting backlashed by the PC police for tweeting a photo with Olympic runner Usain Bolt. Details on the racism allegation next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: She's known for being funny, but some say this is no laughing matter. Ellen DeGeneres getting slammed on social media after posting this Photoshopped picture of herself riding on the back of Olympic sprinter Usain Bolt. The caption read, "This is how I'm running errands from now on."

Well, the Internet exploded, with many accusing the talk show host of being a racist. Ellen defended herself against the backlash, tweeting, quote, "I am highly aware of the fact that racism exists in our country. It is the furthest thing from who I am."

So, of course, we know there are real issues of racism. Why are we focusing on this one? I don't get it -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Because nowadays we define a story by a group of tweets from idiots. So if there's like 20 tweets, that will be a story. If it's 100 tweets, it will be a big story. A thousand tweets.

Imagine we did a segment on stuff written on bathroom walls in gas stations around the country. That would be -- that's the equivalent of Twitter. So it's not a story.

And by the way, she should join the club. We -- when it happens to us, it's never a story. But when it happens to the beloved Ellen DeGeneres, it's a story.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, it happened to Justin Timberlake. It happened with the Gap ad. But the thing is, Usain Bolt retweeted it, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Well, there you go. OK? I mean, really? Aren't there people suffering enough in this country and children living in poverty and don't have anything to eat? I mean, now they're picking on Ellen DeGeneres? Come on. Sad.

WILLIAMS: It's pretty silly. Dana.

PERINO: Well, I thought it was funny and cute, the tweet that she did. And then I thought she handled it well, because the truth is...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: ... the tweets against her were making a mockery of what is real racism.

WILLIAMS: This is -- you know what? The serious part of this, Eric, is that there's a question about whether whites feel comfortable having discussions about race on social media.

BOLLING: I think they have it backwards. Show the picture again. You know what this really is? This is Usain Bolt being a sexist, thinking that Ellen can't walk on her own, because she's a woman; he has to put her on his back.

WILLIAMS: I see.

PERINO: It goes either way.

WILLIAMS: Well, all right. "One More Thing" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing" -- K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. All right. So big Olympic congratulations to U.S. Army Reservist Sam Kendricks. You probably guys know this story. Taking home the bronze medal in the men's pole vault on Monday, thereby winning the first Team USA medal in pole vaulting in 12 years.

PERINO: Wow.

GUILFOYLE: That one's been a long time coming. He cleared 5.85 meters, which is the equivalent of 19 feet -- can you imagine that -- to win the bronze. So he graduated from the University of Mississippi last year, and he is a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army Reserve. What's kind of exciting is he got a big congratulations from Army Secretary Eric Fanning, the Army Reserve and the Department of Defense, all tweeting congratulations on his success.

BOLLING: All right. USA.

All right, Dana, you're up.

PERINO: Well, the people of Louisiana have been on our minds. There's devastating flooding there. Eleven people have died; 40,000 homes have been damaged. Taylor Swift announcing she will give a million dollars to the floor relief. The Red Cross also taking in a lot of contributions. They say they need help.

And also, I love this story, that the University of Louisiana at Lafayette football team figured out a way how to help all the people down there. They took buses down to hard-hit Youngsville, Louisiana, and they started removing carpeting. There's a lot of clean-up that has to be done. So the football team decided not to practice and to go and help out people. And I thought that was a lovely thing for them to do. I wish those people well down there.

WILLIAMS: You know what struck me about this is, one, the kindness. People are being great to each other. But secondly, it's ten years after Katrina.

BOLLING: Yes. All right, Greg, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: I'll pray for them.

GUTFELD: More chilling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Robot News

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: All right. It's starting. It's starting. The robot rebellion. In The Guardian, they talked about the Roomba -- that is your robot vacuum cleaner. What it does is it actually goes after, if you have a pet, it will go after your pet's poop and spread it around...

GUILFOYLE: Come on.

GUTFELD: ... your house. It's true. Into every single space. It will go, and it will not stop. They will do -- the reason why the Roombas are doing this is because they want you to get rid of your pets, so that you become the pet. And then they work their way up from being a pet to being your superior, and then they will destroy you. It's happening, everybody. The robots are coming.

GUILFOYLE: But what do you mean? Because the dogs are going to the bathroom in the house? On the floor?

BOLLING: He's dragging it out. He's dragging it out.

GUTFELD: Bathroom in China (ph).

WILLIAMS: They're coming for us.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. This is just crazy.

WILLIAMS: All right. So last night, I'm watching baseball. It's the Nationals versus the Rockies, and Nationals player Jayson Werth gets a pitch right at his noggin. It looks like it knocks him down. But guess what? One young fan was even more alarmed than I was. Oh, my gosh. She thought her hero had died. Oh, my goodness.

GUILFOYLE: Aww. Poor (SPEAKING SPANISH).

WILLIAMS: You know, went from -- my reaction is it went from, "Oh, my gosh, poor Jayson Werth," to "That kid's pretty funny."

BOLLING: Now I understood the game -- did they knock him down on purpose?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BOLLING: It was -- it wasn't the pitcher?

GUILFOYLE: It wasn't...

WILLIAMS: The pitcher was out of there.

BOLLING: It's pretty hard to get that far away from the plate.

GUILFOYLE: It wasn't a bench-clearing brawl.

BOLLING: That's it. OK, very quickly, I'm going to be on "O'Reilly" tonight. Bede (ph), you know, fighting Geraldo. We do that live. And so check that out. It's about all I got.

Anyone have anything? We have 20 seconds left.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know.

PERINO: You took your son to college.

BOLLING: Yes, I did.

GUILFOYLE: We wish Eric Chase well. Please call his mom and dad.

PERINO: And he's not a helicopter parent in any way.

WILLIAMS: Not at all. Not at all.

BOLLING: We'll get to that another...

WILLIAMS: By the way, when I was pitching -- when I was pitching to you guys, I didn't throw at your head.

BOLLING: No, you pitch very well.

WILLIAMS: There you go.

PERINO: You're a good pitcher.

GUILFOYLE: You're a really good pitcher. I was like...

PERINO: I was a terrible pitcher.

GUILFOYLE: ... impressed (ph).

WILLIAMS: No, you did well.

BOLLING: That's it. We've got to go. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report," next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.