Trump's identity conundrum: Candidate or commander in chief?

Campaign spokesperson Katrina Pierson and radio host Richard Fowler debate on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, GUEST HOST:  Breaking tonight, we are just moments away from what's being built as a groundbreaking speech from Donald Trump.  

I'm Martha MacCallum in tonight for Megyn Kelly.  Welcome to "The Kelly File," everybody.  So, Donald Trump was meeting today with law enforcement officials in Wisconsin where a police-involved shooting recently sparked several nights of horrific violence in the streets.  And after sort of pulling an audible, they decided to refocus this speech and turn to the situation at hand in the state of Wisconsin where they are.  

Similar incidents, of course, have happened in other cities across the country, so the Trump campaign is saying that tonight, we're going to hear quite a bit about the law and order theme which was something that was a major focus of what we heard from the candidate at the convention in Cleveland and coming out of that convention there was a lot of positive momentum, so he may be trying to sort of put these things together in order to get back there.  

Chief political correspondent Carl Cameron is live at Trump's rally in West Bend, Wisconsin tonight with the latest.  Good evening, Carl.   

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT:  Hi, Martha.  Welcome from the badger state.  So, there is a capacity plus crowd of something that 2,500 or 3,000 people in an auditorium here.  And Mr. Trump is running late.  This trip to Wisconsin, the last primary that he lost during the nomination process has been on the books for quite some time, but because of the violence that happened in Milwaukee over the weekend, the decision was made to include the law enforcement and veterans roundtable earlier today which included Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York as well as presidential candidate and Sheriff David Clark.  

Giuliani is a particularly effective surrogate and spokesperson who will be part of this rally in about an hour in part because of what he did as the mayor of New York instituting some real tough on crime practices that really helped clean up New York City in a way that a lot of folks are sort of nostalgic about now given some of the decay that New York has been said to experience with the De Blasio mayoralty.  

Having said that, both Giuliani, Clark and perhaps even Governor Scott Walker are expected to take part on this tonight.  So, we've got lots of additional introductions to be made.  And what Trump basically said to his staff was, we have to make tonight's rally into something more substantive, particularly having met with the law enforcement officials earlier today.  And so they crafted this speech that will be delivered by teleprompter here in probably another 45 minutes to an hour.  

As we speak, Trump and company are in Milwaukee where they're finishing up an interview with Sean Hannity that will be airing shortly obviously at 10:00 Eastern and we expect them to get here shortly.  And what he intends to do is make the argument that liberal democratic institutions, liberal Democratic policies, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama's social approach to poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, inner city crime problems have all failed and that rather than giving people a hand up as the cliche goes, they have been given handouts and perpetuating the problem and allowing it to get worse.  

There will be a great deal of talk of respecting the men in blue, respecting police officers particularly in the case of this Wisconsin shooting wherein it is said that there is body camera video of the police officer that illustrates that the assailant, the alleged, the victim, the man who was shot actually had a gun in his hand.  So, there will be a lot of expressions of how law and order is necessary.  But what Trump plans to do in something of a historic way is make the argument that he will create jobs, he will reform education, he will deal with better housing, he will deal with crime in a way that those very communities have been crying out for and not getting.  

It may be a difficult sell here because he plans to use a teleprompter in what is becoming an increasingly raucous rally.  I don't know if you can see over my shoulder but people in the audience are fanning themselves with their posters and their placards, some things like this because it's getting really, really hot.  And to put him through a 35 or 40 minutes of what is likely to be pretty sophisticated, and in depth polity for Trump by comparison to a rally of him making it a little bit weary.  But this is clearly a very enthusiastic crowd.  

The Trump campaign has said this is virtually unprecedented.  Trump has never done a rally with a teleprompter.  He has done smaller groups for his policies but he's never done it in an audience like this.  And they argue that it's unprecedented and historic because of the massive and sweeping reforms he'll be discussing as goals.  We haven't had any indication, Martha, that there's going to be very specifics in all of this but that's generally the trend with Mr. Trump.  He tells folks what his priorities will be, he says that he has negotiating positions, and he has goals, but he's willing to be diplomatic once he's the President in order to find national solutions.  

So a bold move, one that given the circumstances of national crime seems perfectly appropriate and well-timed and in fact aides said that there was a sense in the Trump campaign that they were in the right place at the right time for very, very unfortunate reasons and now is the time to give
this tough on crime law and order speech -- Martha.   

MACCALLUM:  Well, as you point out, and as we can hear, clearly the crowd behind you is getting restless.  And if they want to seize this moment and have their attention before everybody passes out from the heat, timing is everything in politics and in life, so we'll see how this works out tonight.  

Carl, thank you very much.  Good to have you with us.  And we'll be back to Carl as we waits for all of this to get started tonight.  Trump's speech comes at a tough time for the candidate.  He is down by nine and by seven, depending on which polls you're looking at in the national picture right now.  He's seen some very rough numbers in the key battleground states, in Florida.  Hillary Clinton holds a nine-point lead over Donald Trump among likely voters there.  

In Virginia, a state that was a lock for Republicans until Barack Obama changed that in 2008.  He is now down a staggering 14 points.  He has his work cut out for him in the state that Republicans always have wanted to get back since the Obama presidency.  That slide so notable that electoral analysts from Cook Political, ABC News, 538, all predicting that Clinton has the states necessary to clinch 270 electoral votes needed to win the House.  So, this could get very interesting.  

Joining me now, Chris Stirewalt, Fox News digital politics editor, Kellyanne Conway, Trump campaign pollster and senior advisor.  And Doug Schoen, Fox News contributor and Democratic strategist.  

Welcome to all of you, great lineup for us tonight.  Chris, let me start with you.  Just in terms of timing and logistics and how these things work.  As Carl just showed us, it's hot in there in West Band, Wisconsin.  

Donald Trump is going to try to pull off something tonight that he doesn't usually do.  He wants to do a substantive speech with the teleprompter, a groundbreaking speech we're told in terms of how Democratic policies have created the environment, this is what he's going to argue that have led to the rise -- we've seen in the streets of Wisconsin and then after that, he's going to roll with it and turn into a rally mode.  So, how is that going to work out?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR:  It's like being your own opening act.  


And it might work, it provided everybody if they don't pass out from the heat.  Keeping those folks waiting another hour.  I don't know what's going to be.  (INAUDIBLE) for good outcomes.  But Trump is going to try something here because he had a choice.  He could either nix his visit to Wisconsin given what was going on out of the desire not to further fan the flames because he is of course such a controversial figure and he does incited such strong feelings on both sides.  

So, he could had cut and run.  But he said, no, we're going to try to refigure this, we're going to try to do this in a way that is sensitive to the realities.  Because remember if he screws this up tonight, if things get worse instead of better because of what he said, it will be another --
it will be another media controversy and another maelstrom.   

MACCALLUM:  Kellyanne, he's going to try to reach out to black voters here.  He has not good numbers with black voters, but, you know, it's long been said that Republicans need to make the argument.  They need to reach out to black voters and argue that liberal policies since the great society, really, that were designed to improve the lives of minorities have done
exact opposites.   

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN POLLSTER AND SENIOR ADVISER:  That's right.  And the facts thrown aside, we have 70 million more Americans in poverty now than when President Obama took office.  That of course cut and cross all races.  

But it's a very telling statistic among many.  Look at these major health insurers who were meant to help this who were uncovered.  Many of the minority communities now pulling out of the ObamaCare.  First, United Healthcare said, we're down, we're going to be losing a billion dollars.  

Now, Aetna yesterday said, we lost $230 million since 2014.  Why is that relevant?  It's relevant because what Donald Trump is doing yesterday with the terror speech and today with this very monumental speech in Wisconsin.  Is he talking about substance?  Those in the media like you in the show who wish to cover substance have plenty there.  Listen to what he's saying.  I think many in the media take the one rif from a 45 or 50-minute substantive policy speech and decide that should be the running narrative that day.  

Also the facts are on aside because look at our major cities where most of the minority communities live.  We've got Democratic mayors in practically all if not all now.  And look at the poverty, look at the unemployment.  Look at the -- and the facts are there.   

MACCALLUM:  It's a compelling argument when you look at the history.  I want to go back to the poll numbers for a minute and then we'll get back to
the substance of tonight.   

CONWAY:  Sure, sure.   

MACCALLUM:  But I want to remind everybody at home of the tenor of Donald Trump.  You know, a couple of months ago when he talked about what was going to happen at the end of this campaign.  Here he is.   


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  If I don't go all the way and if I don't win, I will consider it to be a total and complete waste of time,
energy, and money.   

We're going to win.  We're going to win so big.  Thank you very much, everybody.  Thank you.  



MACCALLUM:  Going to win, going to win so big.  And the numbers are very rough for him right now.   

DOUG SCHOEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Right.  Notwithstanding, you know, everything that's been said now, the lay of the land is that the national numbers have been getting worse in terms of the Real Clear Politics averages.  In terms of the 10 or 15 key swing states as you suggested, Martha, they're getting worse still.  Florida's getting worse, Virginia's almost gone.  Colorado is almost gone.  Ohio remains competitive.  But Pennsylvania, a state Donald Trump said he's got to win.  He is down eight or nine points now.  

So, he's got to jump start the campaign.  He has said, Martha, that he's going to begin slowly some TV ads.  He's only been outspent -- and I want people to focus on this -- $100 million to nothing in the general election.   

MACCALLUM:  But this is where I think he's still in primary mode Doug because he would point to places like New Hampshire and tell you that Jeb Bush spent $30 million on ads and look what it got him.  He's saying, I'm different, I don't need this.  But now for the very first time, none of its working.  

SCHOEN:  That's what I was going to say.  New Hampshire is getting away from him too.  Look, I've worked with both Bill and Hillary Clinton.  I know how they work.  I spent six years working in the Clinton White House.  These are serious people.  Regardless of what you may think about them, they know how to play and practice politics, and so far all the advantage are to the Clintons and their campaign.  Machine, the war chest they're raising and the get out the vote effort that they will have that so far
Donald Trump has to choose.   

CONWAY:  And yet, quality candidates really matter.  And I would just point out in the Virginia poll for example Martha where she is leading Donald Trump by a larger margin and before.  Her fundamentals are still very poor.  
Fifty four percent of the Virginians in the same pollsters, they are unfavorable toward her.  Sixty six percent of weight voters are unfavorable.  And 68 percent said the addition of Senator and former Governor Tim Kaine to her ticket, quote, "doesn't affect them at all."  I think our fundamentals are still important.  And, you know, I can also, by the way, there's breaking news.  We're starting our ads this weekend in four or five states.  


CONWAY:  But that aside, I am wondering what the $100 million has gotten
her so far.   

SCHOEN:  A big lead, Kellyanne.   

CONWAY:  In some of the states.  

SCHOEN:  An Electoral College --  

MACCALLUM:  You know, I want to go back to Chris Stirewalt because we don't want to get Chris because he'll get edgy.  


MACCALLUM:  Are you still there, Chris?

STIREWALT:  That is right.  Yes.   

MACCALLUM:  You know, when you talk about -- the time for you that's left.  Because Kellyanne has made a great point.  And that is they're about to roll out ads.  But some would say, where in the heck of the ads been?  Because I've been watching the Olympics.  And there are these, you know, sort of beautifully produced Hillary Clinton ads everywhere.  

STIREWALT:  Surprisingly.  

MACCALLUM:  And there's nothing from Donald Trump.   

STIREWALT:  Well, I only ever watch Fox News Channel.  So, I wouldn't know anything about that.  

MACCALLUM:  There some swimming going on, let me tell --  

STIREWALT:  But apparently people put on strange outfits and dive into green water.  And yes, she has been all up in the Olympics.  Saturation bombing.  Why wasn't Trump in it?  Because he didn't have any money.  
Because he didn't raise any money in May.  Because he is broke and that's
the truth and he puts tens of millions (audio gap) --    

CONWAY:  The billionaire is broke.   

STIREWALT:  His campaign is broke.  He found a way that he could tapped into the grassroots, he raised $80 million in the month of July.  They're starting to put the money out.  If the election were held today, Hillary Clinton would win close to 400 electoral votes.  It would be a catastrophe of massive proportions.  But Donald Trump has 12 weeks left to go and
there's a lot of football still to be played.   

MACCALLUM:  Kellyanne is shaking her head --  


Tell me why.  

CONWAY:  It's August, not October.  And I still would rather be him, not her because --    

SCHOEN:  Kellyanne, that defies reality.   

CONWAY: -- versus distrust of her.  Distrust of her is so -- and by the way, Martha, scarcity has benefitted her.  Where have you really seen her or seen her campaign covered in the two weeks since her convention.  The campaign knows that the more we see her and hear from her directly, the
worse it goes for her.   

MACCALLUM:  We don't have to do anything.  

SCHOEN:  Exactly.  


Things are going swimmingly.  Kellyanne may want to talk over me --  


-- but the fact is the poll numbers are getting worse, the Clinton strategy is working.  Trump doesn't have an organization.  He doesn't have money for media as Chris correctly said.  And, frankly, I'd rather be closer to 400 electoral votes --  

MACCALLUM:  If you near this position, right, here's what you do.  You want to do something dramatically different.  You want to start talking substance.  If you're Donald Trump in a way that makes people sit up and take notice.  You want to do an economic speech, you want to follow it up with a foreign policy speech that gets even "The Wall Street Journal" sort of saying some positive things about what you have planned.  

They had a sort of mixed editorial but I would say overall it was fairly positive today.  And then you go into the heart of Wisconsin which is a hot summer riot situation and you've got to walk in there and you have to do something very bold, which is to look at minority voters, Chris Stirewalt and say, you've been in the wrong team and they are not helping you.  Can Donald Trump pull that off?

STIREWALT:  Well, it's bold.  Sure enough it's bold.  I don't know whether it would be good but it's definitely bold.  The danger for campaigns when they are behind is that they swing too hard at bad pitches.  That is the danger.  Now, this may be a smashing success.  Donald Trump could grand slam this thing.  This could be in fact the night that turns the campaign around because people look at this and say, he is substantive, he is sensitive, he is thoughtful, he cares about issues, he's trying to bring healing and peace, not further division.  Or if it screws up, if he doesn't hit the right notes or he goes off script or it's a bad situation, it could further plunge the campaign into chaos.  So, he's putting a lot on the line
tonight.  These stakes are very high.   

MACCALLUM:  All right.  

SCHOEN:  Martha, with 120 Republicans having issued a public statement that the RNC should defund him.  And "The Wall Street Journal" which you alluded to having said the Republicans should consider dropping him.  I'd much rather be Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton.   

CONWAY:  And with 11 percent of the Americans according to NBC poll saying that they think she's honest.  I mean, that's a remarkable number.  That means the plurality and majority of the Democrats don't think she's honest and 80 percent in the Bloomberg poll said that the e-mail situation bothers
them.  Fifty eight percent very much bothers them.   

SCHOEN:  And she's still winning a landslide victory.   

CONWAY:  Right now.  Come back in three weeks.  

SCHOEN:  I will.  I will.


MACCALLUM:  Chris, thank you very much.   

STIREWALT:  You bet.   

MACCALLUM:  Thanks, Kellyanne and thank you to Doug.  We'll see everybody

But we are now just moments away from what is expected to be this interesting speech in a different kind of format to do a structured speech and then follow it up with some of the kind of riffing that he loves to do at these rallies to get the crowd whipped up.  We know it's hot in there on this Wisconsin night and all of this leads some to wonder if perhaps the long awaited pivot is under way regardless of the fact that he says it is absolutely is not.  

Trump's campaign national spokeswoman Katrina Pierson and Richard Fowler coming up next on that.  

Stay with us.  We will be right back from "The Kelly File."  


MACCALLUM:  Breaking tonight, any moment, Donald Trump will take the stage in Wisconsin where he's expected to deliver remarks unlike remarks that we've heard from him before.  We are told tonight's speech comes amid new reports that campaign insiders are pushing the GOP nominee to change in an attempt to broaden his appeal.  The long awaited pivot or so-called.  

So, for more on that, we go to Trace Gallagher now in our West Coast Newsroom with a little background on this long awaited stance from Donald
Trump.  Good evening, Trace.   

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, Martha.  By all accounts, even Donald Trump says it was only a matter of time before he became more presidential, right?  Evolving from a primary candidate focused on winning base voters in the GOP to a general election candidate who would appeal to a much wider swath of voters.  In April when the New York Post endorsed Donald Trump, the paper said that if Trump wins the nomination, he is expected to pivot.  

The very same month Trump's newly hired senior aide Paul Manafort told the Republican National Committee, quote, "The part that he's been playing is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting.  But he wasn't ready for because he had first complete the first phase.  The negatives will come down.  The image is going to change and the chair of the RNC bought it saying that we would see a change of tone."  Even the candidate himself
said there would be a dramatic difference.  Watch.   


TRUMP:  But at the right time, I would be so presidential you will be so bored, you will say, can he have a little bit more energy, but I know when to be presidential.  


GALLAGHER:  But now less than 90 days before the general election, there has been no major increase in his campaign infrastructure, no massive increase and spending on television ads.  And maybe most importantly political experts say there has been no change in tone, in other words, no pivot.  And now according to Donald Trump there won't be telling WKBT television, quoting, "I am who I am, it's me.  I don't want to change.  

Everyone talks about, oh, are you going to pivot.  I don't want to be pivot.  I mean, you have to be you.  If you start pivoting, you are not being honest with people."  Trump acknowledges that he should adjust his tactics to improve his poll numbers but argued that doing so would betray the billions of supporters who have backed his campaign.  Martha.   

MACCALLUM:  All right.  Trace, thank you very much.  

So, Katrina Pierson, Trump campaign national spokesperson.  And Richard Fowler, national syndicated radio host join us now to talk about this.  Katrina, it's interesting.  He says he is not going to pivot and yet, we are seeing some indications of pivot in terms of the Muslim band, in terms of the NATO stance that he took.  He has pivoted.  So which is it?

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON:  Well, Martha, I would just say he said from the very beginning that he can be presidential when he wanted to be.  Mr. Trump has had the same stance he's always had.  He wants to be himself.  He doesn't want to be dishonest to the voters.  
And you'll see at the rallies, he continues to be himself, having a lot of fun with a lot of his supporters, tens of thousands at the time.  And then you'll see him be presidential when he's giving prepared remarks.  

Unlike the ones we're going to see tonight.  And so, I think what we're seeing is Donald Trump.  You're seeing Donald Trump, the candidate, as well as Donald Trump, the commander-in-chief.  He's had to break through a dramatic primary process and now he's had to fight, you know, specifically with the media, which is usually what happens post-convention.  The Democrats combine with the media and try to really take out the Republican which has been successful in the past.   

MACCALLUM:  Yes.  But that's happened to many Republicans, presidential candidates in the past Katrina and they handled it, you know, some would argue, differently than Donald Trump is handling it.  I mean, that's nothing new.

PIERSON:  That's my point, Martha, and they lost.  And they lost.  We have a Republican candidate now who is going to fight back and he's withered those storms for the last couple of months and now you're going to see Donald Trump counter-punch being presidential.   

MACCALLUM:  All right.  I mean. Reagan and both Bushes also put up with what many would say was a press corps that was not that favorable to them -

PIERSON:  Not like this.  

MACCALLUM: -- in those years.

PIERSON:  Not like this.   

MACCALLUM:  So, Richard, let me get you in here.  What do you think about all of that?

RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST:  Well, I've got tell you.  Martha, I have a problem with this whole idea.  Today, I'm going to be presidential and tomorrow, I will not be presidential.  If Donald Trump becomes the president of the United States, he has to be presidential.  And this lead-up, this campaign shows you whether or not somebody can be presidential and what -- what they're telling us here and what all the evidence says is that Donald Trump is incapable of being presidential because he'll give a televised remark tonight, which will probably be very good.  I credit the campaign with the statement they released about bigotry earlier today.  


FOWLER:  But then tomorrow he'll say something bigoted and they'll go right back to square one again.  What this campaigns really got to do is listen to what the people on the right are telling them.  "The Wall Street Journal" released an editorial talking about how Donald Trump needs to stay on message.  Donald Trump needs to find a message that works for the American people.  Maybe you should to the right.   

MACCALLUM:  I mean, that same editorial has pretty favorable about the foreign policy speech that he gave the other day.  And you mentioned this pledge, which I can read you that he released on Facebook.  He said, "This is my pledge to the American people, as your president, I would be your greatest champion.  I will fight to ensure that every American is treated equally, protected equally and honored equally.  We will reject bigotry and hatred and oppression in all its forms and seek a new future built on a common culture and values as one American people."  Is that something that we're going to hear more --

FOWLER:  No.   

MACCALLUM:  Well, go ahead, Richard.  You know, I mean --    

FOWLER:  Well, I mean, that's a great statement, Martha.  That's a great statement.  I agree with that wholeheartedly.  But sadly what you've seen from this candidate and his actions are the opposite of the statement, right? When you go out and you say, I don't like this judge because he happens to be Mexican even though the judge was born in Indiana, that is the opposite of, you know, instilling bigotry and ending oppression.  That is adding on to oppression.  What we see happening today when he chose not to meet with the African-American community in Milwaukee is another example of adding on to oppression.  You can't talk about policing and community without talking about poverty and how you fix it in creating jobs and creating opportunity.   

MACCALLUM:  Well, I think that's how you fix poverty is the main focus of tonight's speech.  So, that's the part that we're told that is going to be bold and different and interesting, Katrina.  But, you know, just to Richard's issue here, with the statement and what he says are contradictory behaviors.   

PIERSON:  Well, first of all Obama dropped it like it was hot.  I'm not quite sure how presidential that was.  But Mr. Trump has met with several African-American groups and black pastors and had these -- many of them have been on this program before and many of them a bit on this program before.  When Mr. Trump talks about someone like the judge who he felt like was biased, it wasn't specifically because he didn't like a certain group of people.  He was talking about the bias that does exist in the criminal justice system which we can also talk about.  

Specifically Donald Trump wants to be the candidate, wants to be the leader that for once represents everyone equally, that doesn't put people in their little corners and label them and represent them.   

MACCALLUM:  All right.  You know what, I just want to -- Sheriff David Clark who is one of the people that he met with today in Milwaukee and who's been on this program and who has spoken on behalf of Donald Trump at the  convention speaks very powerfully to the bases of what we're expecting to hear tonight, Richard, which is that liberalism and liberal governments in places like Milwaukee have done a disservice to African-Americans and that he believes and Sheriff Clarke believes that waking people up to that reality is what needs to happen.   

FOWLER:  I mean I disagree with the sheriff wholeheartedly.  But before I talk about that Martha, I'm sorry but Katrina, I think you're suffering from amnesia.  Donald Trump very clearly in the Jake Tapper interview a couple of months back said the reason why I have a problem with this judge is because I'm trying to build a wall and he is Mexican, quote.  Right?  That is the opposite of, I have a problem with these practices.   


FOWLER:  That is the absolute opposite.  

PIERSON:  That doesn't translate.  When you talk about an isolated incidents --  

FOWLER:  What do you mean?

PIERSON: -- that doesn't translate --  

FOWLER: -- it doesn't translate?

PIERSON:  He is talking about -- he's talking about what happens when you end up with an activist judge, which was proven.  So you cannot ignore

MACCALLUM:  How was this judge activist?

PIERSON:  Hold on.  Richard, hold on.  Richard, we've gone over the territory of the judge's comments many, many times but you are deflecting what I think is a significant issue tonight and that is and I talked to Sheriff Clarke about  this yesterday.  They're going to argue that liberalism has ravaged the African-American community and other minorities in places like Milwaukee and that that is at the heart of the problem and that that is what needs to change.  Do you agree with that?

FOWLER:  No.  I fundamentally disagree with that.  What we saw -- when America's middle-class was the best, right?  When African-Americans were thriving was in the late '70s, in the early '80s, right, when you had more union households.  You had more policy and it worked on -- and LBJ got ready to leave office in the war on poverty, we had eliminated childhood hunger.  

MACCALLUM:  That's not true when you look at the numbers over the long haul.  

FOWLER:  We have.  We did though, Martha.

MACCALLUM:  In the 1960 to now, they haven't moved that much at all, Richard.   

PIERSON:  What we had in the '70s --  

MACCALLUM:  So, what's improved?

PIERSON:  What we had in the 70s was the implementation of the federally controlled public education system which has failed the black community.  

MACCALLUM:  All right.  I have to go.  

PIERSON:  We have out of control immigration because we have illegal aliens moving into the black community.   

FOWLER:  Okay.  That's ridiculous.  That's ridiculous.   


FOWLER:  Katrina, where did you come up this stuff?  

MACCALLUM:  You know what?  Richard, this is the debate that we need to be having when it comes to this issue of our inner cities.  Okay?  

FOWLER:  I hear that.  I'm willing to debate the facts but Katrina just makes things up.    

MACCALLUM: Look, guys, you're both jumping on immigration and you're both beating on each other.

PIERSON: If we go immigration, education and mass incarceration, those are very serious issues.

MACCALLUM: We're going to leave it there because I'm out of time, but I thank you and we'll do it again, Richard Fowler and Katrina Pierson, thank you very much. And we're going to hear from Donald Trump himself from on this very issue in just a few moments. It's a major law and order speech. He's going back to the issue that was very solid for him at the convention.

Will it work to turn around his campaign and while Hillary Clinton this week suggested that law enforcement needs to be supported after a weekend of violent riots and attacks on the police. Governor Scott Walker says the kinds of comments that we're hearing from Clinton and others have made things worse. National Fraternal Order of Police president, Chuck Canterbury is here to react.


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Everyone should have respect for the law and be respected by the law.



MACCALLUM: So we are just moments away from Donald Trump's remarks in Wisconsin, one that his team is calling ground breaking in terms of the content of the speech tonight and it comes after his meeting today with police in Milwaukee. He sat down with them and it is a city that has spiraled in a chaos this weekend over protest after a police-involved shooting that turned into riots over the course of the last several nights. Last night was calmer. Correspondent Matt Finn is live in Milwaukee with the latest in what's going on there, hi Matt.

MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. While as you have been talking on the show, Donald Trump has established himself as the pro- police law and order candidate, and today he met with the law and order sheriff from Milwaukee County, David Clarke and some local veterans. In a meeting here, he took pictures with them and shook their hands and then he spoke for a couple of minutes with the county sheriff here, David Clarke.

They talked about public safety and the unrest here and Donald Trump also spoke out in favor of the unidentified police officer here in Milwaukee. Now, of course, this all comes after a very violent weekend in Milwaukee that left 12 officers injured, some hit with chunks of concrete and bricks.
Now, in a short while Donald Trump is hosting a rally in which he's expected to talk at length about the riots here in Milwaukee and will also detail his plans to counter ISIS and foreign terrorism.

There was also some concern that Donald Trump's presence here in Milwaukee would spark either more riots or some protests but so far that has not happened and everything has pretty much been status quo as far as a Donald Trump visit and rally. Martha, back to you.

MACCALLUM: All right, Matt, thank you very much. And as we've said, that's coming up in just a few minutes this evening and it is expected to talk very directly about what has been the cause -- underlying causes of the riots that we've seen in Milwaukee and the violence toward police as well in different parts of the country.

So, Donald Trump's opponents' reaction to the situation in Milwaukee has generated a lot of controversy and Wisconsin's own governor Scott Walker is suggesting that the language he's hearing from Hillary Clinton and others on this important issue in the nation, he says does more harm than good.


CLINTON: Look at what's happening in Milwaukee right now. We've got urgent work to do to rebuild trust between police and communities and get back to the fundamental principle. Everyone should have respect for the law and be respected by the law.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER, R-WIS.: I think people understand in that neighborhood, in Sherman Park in Milwaukee, they want law enforcement to step up and protect them. I think statements like that and the lack of leadership we've had from the president on this issue only inflame the situation.


MACCALLUM: Chuck Canterbury is the president of the National Fraternal Order of Police. Chuck, welcome, good to have you with us tonight.


MACCALLUM: So what's your reaction to what you hear on Hillary Clinton speaking out about this and Governor Walker as well?

CANTERBURY: Well, I think that in the last year and a half or actually since Ferguson, there's been a lot of rhetoric that has been spewed in social media and all over, and these campaigns are no different. But I think tonight, Mr. Trump's going to talk about the issues that we've been talking about for a long time, and it's poverty.

And the fact that America's police are being asked to do things that we're not trained to do, not capable of doing, and shouldn't be doing, such as mental health counseling. We need to get back to the community oriented policing that worked in the '90s. We need to stop zero tolerance policies.
We need to stop aggressive police tactics. We just need to police our neighborhoods like we used to.

MACCALLUM: It's so interesting what you're saying. I remember the police chief, Brown in Dallas talking about exactly what you're saying. He said, you know, we can only do our job. We can't also be essentially the parents for everybody in this community. And we heard very similar things in Milwaukee.

I think there's a need in this country to get into these neighborhoods and to speak this language perhaps and it's difficult to do and it requires bringing people together in a way that we really haven't seen yet. Do you believe Donald Trump is up to this task tonight and what do you think the reaction is going to be in Milwaukee?

CANTERBURY: Well, we've discussed this issue with Mr. Trump, and I think that the boardroom style president that he would be, he knows how to interact with the people. But we already know how to do that in the law enforcement community. But with severe staffing shortages around the country, the fact that we go from call to call to call without the capabilities and the equipment and the staffing levels, we're in a dangerous time in this country.

We're 100,000 police officers short of where we were ten years ago with the spike in crime and especially violent crime in this country. We're going have to put resources into these neighborhoods and other neighborhoods where they've been socioeconomically depressed for years and law enforcement is the only form of government they ever see.

MACCALLUM: People have criticized President Obama for not doing enough to bring the two sides together, for not spending enough time in the inner city where in many cases black-on-black crime is the number that is the highest in terms of how people are losing their lives in the streets. What do you think about it?

CANTERBURY: Well, take for instance the city of Chicago where black-on- black crime is occurring every night and they take one or two incidents in the Chicago police and try to paint the entire department as being systemically racist. It's just absolutely not true. They have a heavy minority population in the police department and trying to say that the department is systemically racist is very premature and nobody wants to address and especially the mayor of Chicago doesn't want to address the problem that they're having on the south side of Chicago with black-on- black crime.

MACCALLUM: You've got to be realistic about this if you want to help people on both sides. Thank you very much, Chuck Canterbury, good to have you with us tonight.

CANTERBURY: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, we go back to Wisconsin. We'll take you there as soon as the speech gets under way. It is a state that has been rocked by violent riots over a police shooting. Mr. Trump expected to address law and order to get back to that theme. He has gone sort of around the horn on the economy.

On foreign policy in recent days trying to lay down some substance in this campaign that is having some tough times in the polls. And tonight, he'll turn that attention to the inner city in America and try to offer solutions that are said to be bold and groundbreaking. So, will they measure up to those words? We will see. That's straight ahead after this.


MACCALLUM: So, we are back. Good evening, everybody. We're waiting for Donald Trump's big speech which you can see on the right hand side of your screen. That podium where they placed the flags are there and Donald Trump should be there any moment. He's going to address issues such as poverty and policing.

He's going to try to draw the line between what's happening with policing and how they are unable to serve the poor in their community because of the burdens that rest on them given the situation, the stresses in the inner cities of this country, a theme that Mr. Trump successfully highlighted during the RNC. It worked well for him then. He's going to try to get back there tonight.

Our political panel joins us once again as we wait for this which we are told it's going to be groundbreaking and quite different than what we usually see from Donald Trump. Chris Stirewalt, Fox News digital politics editor, Kellyanne Conway, Trump campaign pollster senior advisor and Doug Schoen is a Fox News contributor and Democratic strategist, welcome back to all of you. I want to start by putting some numbers up because I asked myself this afternoon so, it's August 16th.

So when you look back at prior elections, where were things on August 16th as they headed towards the November elections? So, take a look at where we are now. She is ahead by 6.7, according to this Real Clear Politics average. And then you go back further to 2012, President Obama versus Mitt Romney. He was ahead by 3.5 at this point. Obama versus McCain back in 2008, he was ahead 3.2. So, in each one of those cases Doug, August was a pretty good indicator.

SCHOEN: Right, and in the McCain case, he was able to pull even but there was not a fiscal crisis which rendered his candidacy unsuccessful. The Romney case I think is probably more representative. Romney was behind. He was outspent on media. He was attacked fundamentally as being out of touch, uncaring billionaire by president Obama and despite his good performance in the first debate, he was never really in the race.

The problem that I have with Kellyanne's argument is that Trump is so far behind, yes, he can make it closer, but given the numbers you presented, the swing states and the data that I've seen, it's going to be hard for him to close it all the way, notwithstanding the partisanship of this country.

MACCALLUM: I think a lot of it goes back to the unfit argument that Hillary Clinton has tried to make. She tried to make it at the convention. She said, he's not fit to be president. Joe Biden said he doesn't have a clue, he's not fit to be president and Donald Trump went a long way in convincing people that perhaps he was at his convention.

And then that unraveled in part due to his own -- problems of his own making, right, you know, with the Khan issue, with the second amendment issue. So, it's like he has -- she hasn't done such a great job, it's that he has allowed his traction to unravel. Now he's trying to put that back together. Can he do it?

CONWAY: Yeah, of course he can. It's August, not November. But let me just say something off about this August 16 numbers you showed. There are two big differences. Hillary Clinton is not Barack Obama and she certainly isn't Bill Clinton. She lacks their political skill set, she lacks their charisma.

Wow, that a big news that is for feminism. Vote for me because I married to Bill Clinton. But she, you know, she has -- she doesn't have their charisma, their political skill set. She's the second most popular person in a two-person household. And the other difference is Donald Trump is a more unconventional dynamic campaigner and candidate than Mitt Romney or John McCain.

And it matters, you know, Mitt Romney did well in that first debate. You're right Doug, he won one debate but he never won the argument. You have to win the argument. Speeches like tonight and yesterday help you win the argument.

MACCALLUM: So it could have change election, that's the major question. Chris Stirewalt, weigh in before we go to the break.

STIREWALT: He's got 12 weeks. It's happened before, 1981, Reagan closed, George H.W. Bush came back. It's not unheard of for races to change late but it is later than you think because early voting starts next month. This thing is about to happen so you'd better get cooking.

MACCALLUM: All right, thanks you guys. Thanks for that. So, new details tonight on the statement removed from the Clinton campaign website. Trace Gallagher investigates that next.


MACCALLUM: So we are back, and there is a notable omission discovered on the Hillary Clinton campaign website with Clinton critics blaming sexual assault accusations against Bill Clinton for this now missing removed phrase from the website page that deals with campus sexual assault. Hillary Clinton said that women, who accuse someone of sexual assault, quote "deserve to be believed."

And then one accuser claims that her actions prove otherwise. For more on that we go to Trace Gallagher in our West Coast newsroom to unravel all of that and explain it. So what's going on there, Trace?

GALLAGHER: Hey Martha, if you looked at the site back in January you would have read the quote here that I'm quoting, "I want to send a message to every survivor of sexual assault. You have the right to be heard. You have the right to be believed and we're with you." But by early February, the lines that read you have the right to be believed and we're with you had disappeared, though there is still a video on the page where Hillary says it.

Some believe the deleted phrase might be due to the reemergence of Juanita Broaddrick, the now 73-year old woman who accused Bill Clinton of raping here back in 1978 when she volunteered on his campaign. The former president denies the allegation, but in January, Broaddrick started tweeting about seeing the Clintons back on television saying quoting here, "I was 35 years old when Bill Clinton, Arkansas Attorney General raped me and Hillary tried to silence me. I am now 73. It never goes away."

Broaddrick also came out in support of Donald Trump and during a campaign stop in May, Hillary Clinton was asked if all rape victims should be believed, what about Juanita Broaddrick. Here's the reply, listen.


CLINTON: Well, I would say that everybody should be believed at first until they are disbelieved based on evidence.



GALLAGHER: We have e-mailed the Clinton campaign and so far we have not yet heard back about the deleted line. Martha?

MACCALLUM: All right. Trace, thank you very much. So moments away, we will take you back to Wisconsin where Donald Trump is doing a late-night rally and there is Rudy Giuliani warming up the crowd. We expect that Donald Trump is going to be out there moments away. Interesting moment in the 2016 race. We'll take you live to West Bend, Wisconsin right after this.


MACCALLUM: So stay tuned for Donald Trump live in Wisconsin tonight. I'll see you tomorrow with Bill Hemmer in "America's Newsroom" and I will also see you at 2:00 tomorrow afternoon. From America' election headquarters, have a great night, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow morning bright and early.

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