National uproar after black woman killed by police; Glenn Beck on Trump-Khan feud, Clinton's lead in new polls

Korryn Gaines allegedly threatened to kill Maryland cops while holding a shotgun and her young son; insight on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," August 2, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, a new national uproar after police shoot a suspect near Baltimore and touch off a huge wave of controversial media coverage.  

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone.  I'm Megyn Kelly.  Many Americans awoke to the heartbreaking news today that a young black mother Korryn Gaines had been killed and her young son wounded after a nearly six-hour standoff with police on Monday.  What was missing from some of those initial reports, however, was the fact that Gaines was allegedly pointing a shotgun at the responding officers as she sat on the couch with a five- year-old child.  

Police were attempting to serve arrest warrants to Gaines and a man named Kareem Courtney early Monday.  No one answered at Gaines' apartment, but the officers could hear voices inside, including those of children.  Here's how police described what happened next.  


JAMES JOHNSON, CHIEF, BALTIMORE COUNTY POLICE:  They could clearly see a female that they believed to be Ms. Gaines seated on the floor, a child nearby, who immediately began to wield a shotgun around, bringing up to ready position, pointing it directly at the officers there to serve the arrest warrant.  The entire time, throughout the afternoon, she repeatedly would point the weapon at our personnel.  For hours we pleaded with her to end this peacefully.  We were concerned about the safety of the child.  


KELLY:  Gaines was even filming off and on as those hours unfolded.  Her young son's voice still in the background as she zoomed in on the rifle of an officer who was peering in the door at one point.  And another gut- wrenching video taken during the standoff, Gaines asks her young son whether he is aware of the situation in which she has put him.  


KORRYN GAINES, MOTHER:  What's happening right now?  Who's outside?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY:  The police.  

GAINES:  And what are they trying to do?  What are they trying to do?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY:  They're trying to kill us.  


KELLY:  They're trying to kill us.  In moments we're joined by Pastor Wesley West and radio host Kevin Jackson on the controversy over how this thing ended and where the story has gone since.  But first tonight, we begin with Trace Gallagher, who has the details that a lot of media outlets left out.  Trace.  

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Megyn, prior to the five- and-a-half hour standoff, Baltimore police were very aware of 23-year-old Korryn Gaines.  Back in March, they pulled her over with her kids for not having a car license plate.  Instead of a plate, there was a cardboard sign warning government officials not to stop her.  And when police did, it quickly got confrontational.  And Korryn Gaines videotaped it and posted parts of it on Instagram.  Watch.  



GAINES:  Listen.  A chance to be what?

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER:  To get out of your car with your children.  

GAINES:  Sir, you're trying to steal my car.  When you put your hands on me, I promise you, you will have to murder me.  You will have to murder me.  So go ahead and get ready to do that.  


GALLAGHER:  Gaines was finally arrested and given a court date.  When she failed to appear, Baltimore police went to her home to serve a bench warrant.  Police say they could hear the man inside talking with her, but nobody came to the door, so they got a key from the manager, opened the door, and found Gaines sitting on the floor with a shotgun.  Police backed away, and the barricade began.  A short time later, the man inside ran out with a one-year-old baby and was arrested.  

Gaines stayed in the home with her five-year-old son.  Police negotiators brought in her parents and a psychologist, saying they made every effort to get the woman to surrender.  All the while, Gaines was posting on social media, and her followers were encouraging her not to surrender.  Police filed the request with Facebook and Instagram to disable her account, but it took more than an hour.  And this is the final Instagram post.  Watch again.  


KORRYN GAINES, MOTHER:  What's happening right now?  Who's outside?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY:  The police.  

GAINES:  And what are they trying to do?  What are they trying to do?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY:  They're trying to kill us.  


GALLAGHER:  Police say, when Gaines again pointed her shotgun at officers through the door, it prompted the exchange of gunfire.  One shot by police, two shots from inside the apartment, three more shots by police.  Korryn Gaines was killed.  Her five-year-old son hit in the arm.  It remains unclear if the boy was hit by police gunfire or by his mother's.  The boy is listed in good condition tonight -- Megyn.  

KELLY:  Wow.  Trace, thank you.  

Joining me now, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Mark Eiglarsh, and criminal rights and defense Attorney Andell Brown.  Wow.  

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  All her.  All her.  Anybody who dares point the finger at law enforcement is either being intellectually dishonest or somehow really doesn't know the facts in this case.  They were overly cautious.  They could have shot her right away when they came in and then held back.  Six hours, they waited.  And when they came in, both with the words that she used, I will kill you, coupled with the action, not putting down the shotgun, they had to take action.  She caused her death.  

KELLY:  Andell, do you agree?

ANDELL BROWN, CRIMINAL RIGHTS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  In a situation like this, a picture's worth a thousand words and a video was priceless.  
Here we have the police account of the events, but we also have police accounts in the Walter Scott case, Laquan McDonald case, Tamir Rice case, where facts that were reported did not match up once we had a video.  When we have citizens who feel the need like in the Philando Castile or the Alton Sterling to record interactions with police because the body cameras fell off, they aren't working or whatever the case may be, it shows we have an issue with the trust and transparency and accountability.  

EIGLARSH:  That's not what she asked you.  

KELLY:  This is her with a gun.  This is her with a shotgun, Mark Eiglarsh.  I mean, that's on video.  

BROWN:  That's not what we're told.  That's not what we see?

KELLY:  What?

EIGLARSH:  So, what are you suggesting, Andell?  Are you going to manufacture facts?

BROWN:  What I am suggesting is --  


KELLY:  I'm looking at it right now.  

BROWN:  They should be using body cameras in this case.  

KELLY:  They just got the body cameras a couple of weeks ago.  They're implementing that in Baltimore.  

BROWN:  Well, great.  We need to see what happened.  That's all I can say.  

KELLY:  How much more can we see?

EIGLARSH:  Because I've seen police reports that turned out not to be true once we saw the video.  

KELLY:  But, Mark Eiglarsh, we're seeing -- we are seeing.  This is video from the moment this went down.  

EIGLARSH:  We can play Andell's generic game.  

KELLY:  Let Mark answer that.  

EIGLARSH:  Hold on.  Hold on.  Andell, we'll go with what you're saying.  
You can throw out that generic comment all day long.  We'll never know because we weren't there, we haven't seen reports, and sometimes reports are wrong, you're correct.  But here's the question.  Based upon what they're reporting, are you conceding that this was a justified shooting?

BROWN:  Mark, what I'm saying is, I'm not just going to go with what -

EIGLARSH:  The answer is yes or no.  

BROWN:  When you go into a court of law, Mark -- you don't control this interview.  When we go into a court of law, we make sure we're very sure before we take someone's freedom.  

EIGLARSH:  You just can't take a word, can you?

BROWN:  We make sure we go through many steps before we take someone's life.  It was a hypothetical.  

KELLY:  Okay.  Hold on a second, guys.  Hold on a second.  

BROWN:  The people deserve to see and evaluate whether --  

KELLY:  Hold on.  To Andell's point.  Okay.  To Andell -- hold on.  To your point, to Andell's point -- the video of her loading up that gun was apparently from two weeks earlier.  It wasn't this.  This was two weeks earlier.  It wasn't in the moment that she had the confrontation with the police, who say she did have a long gun, who you can hear discussing with her son on the video that they're -- she believes they're trying to kill her.  And there's a question about her mental state, Mark.  

I mean, I don't know whether this woman was okay emotionally or mentally, and the police would not confirm whether she had a history of mental health issues.  But here she is just a couple of weeks earlier when she had the confrontation with police.  She was pulled over.  She didn't have a license plate.  She considered herself a sovereign citizen.  She didn't recognize the authority of the U.S. law enforcement agents.  She demanded to see their authority cards, and this is a confrontation.  This is a piece of tape from back then.  Watch.  


GAINES:  You know they're talking about stealing my vehicle.  They tell you get out this car, don't take your seat belt off.  You do not get out this car.  Do you understand?


GAINES:  You better fight their asses.  Fight them.  Do you hear me?


GAINES:  And they will have to kill me today.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  No, nobody wants to kill you.  

GAINES:  They will have to.  They will have to, in front of my children and everything.  (Bleep) Burn in hell, all you all pigs.  


KELLY:  So, she's telling her child he had to get out, I think it's her five-year-old, he needs to get out and fight the  police, that they're going to have to kill her to get her out of the car.  The officer asked for her license and registration.  She refuses to show it.  She demands to see his authority card.  He shows it to her.  So the question is whether this person was of sound mind and whether the police, if that is the case, had an obligation to do more to not engage in a shoot-out with this person.  

EIGLARSH:  Okay.  Here's my take on her.  I will defend her right to spew her outrageous and offensive speech, even y'all pigs like she said at the end.  She has a constitutional right to say that.  But her constitutional rights end when she begins to resist and obstruct officers as she did in that scenario.  But, worse, when she shows violence, when she has a gun aimed at law enforcement officers, who didn't wake up wanting to kill anybody that day.  They just wanted to go home to  their families.  
And she created a scenario that led to her tragic demise.  

KELLY:  Go ahead, Andell.  I'll give you the last word.  

BROWN:  In this circumstance, absolutely a tragedy whenever someone loses life or liberty.  In this country where life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness are high ideals, we take it very seriously.  So I just want to make sure that in every one of these instances, we have the transparency and accountability to keep our government honest from the cops on the street all the way up to the White House.  That's what the people deserve, and that's what we want.  

KELLY:  Great to see you both.  

EIGLARSH:  Same here, Megyn.  

KELLY:  Well, as we mentioned earlier, the response we're seeing to the story seems to be largely influenced by the fact that many of the headlines people have been reading make no mention of the fact that Ms.
Gaines was allegedly armed and threatening to kill these police.  Vox declared, quote, "Baltimore County police shot Korryn Gaines and a five- year-old was caught in the crossfire."

Think Progress, quote, "Police fatally shoot woman holding five-year-old boy in her lap."  Sean King at the New York Daily News took things a step further suggesting, "Cynicism toward Korryn Gains, Baltimore mom killed by cops illustrates power of white privilege."  And now in a now deleted tweet, The Washington Post's Wesley Lowery said, quote, "Every fatal police shooting by definition is a summary execution."  

Pastor Westley West of Faith and Power Ministries is a member of Black Lives Matter.  And Kevin Jackson is a Fox News contributor and executive director of  Great to see you both.  

Pastor, do you defend those headlines?  Do you think those headlines are misleading in light of what we are told are the facts?

PASTOR WESTLEY WEST, FAITH EMPOWERED MINISTRIES:  Well, I can't say it's misleading.  I would say right now there is a story behind it all.  Again, after what just happened here in Baltimore with the death of Freddie Gray and now this, this shows that, no, none of that is misleading at all.  I stand behind everything that was been put out today in her benefit.  

KELLY:  Okay.  So, if you believe that, then what should the cops have done if they went to this person's house, she skipped out on her court appearance.  They have to execute a bench warrant.  That's how it works.  She wouldn't let them in.  They got the landlord to open the door.  She's sitting there with a long gun and a five-year-old on her lap threatening them.  What should they have done?

WEST:  Well, again, I think that they have -- they said they had backed down, which I don't believe they backed down at all.  Here's a young lady, again, who shows that there has been some harassment by the Police Department.  At this point in time, they should have more -- her family members come to the scene --  

KELLY:  The copped called them.  The cops called them to come help.  

WEST:  We're talking about -- can I say this real quickly, Kelly?  We're talking about the same police officers that have not issued a statement.  Why are you giving part of the statement?  I need the full statement.  I need the videos.  Why haven't these police officers have body cameras on them?  I need to see this.  I need to really see this.  Don't tell me -- don't tell me what they said.  I need to see this for myself.  

KELLY:  Okay.  

WEST:  Where is the record?

KELLY:  The whole thing is not caught on a cop's body camera.  They say they just got the mandate for these a few weeks ago in the whole wake of Freddie Gray and everything else.  Kevin, your thoughts.  

KEVIN JACKSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  This is the more ridiculousness of the left.  And it just goes to show why America can't improve and particularly black America.  Look, this is cut and dry.  The police did everything they could to not hurt this young lady.  And by the way, the fault goes with the young lady who would have two children in her home and not surrender to the police and get everything worked out, no matter what.  

They're not saying anything about that.  I'll tell you something else that won't be mentioned.  Thirty five people who were killed last month in Baltimore, nobody's going to remember the name Javon Guy (ph).  He was shot and killed by other black people.  This is patently ridiculous.  America is sick of it.  This young lady always --  

WEST:  Yes, America is --  

KELLY:  Hold on, Pastor.  Hold on.  

JACKSON:  Just be quite.  

KELLY:  Go ahead, Kevin.

JACKSON:  This young lady had a problem already with police, and it was already documented.  

WEST:  Wow.  

JACKSON:  She said it and you all are going to have to kill me in front of my kids.  What more -- now, look, she probably had some sort of a mental problem.  Who knows?  And nobody is saying she deserved to die per se.  But everything that could have prevented her death, she could have done.  And for this attorney and this pastor to sit here and -- to say these things is detrimental to the black community.  You're teaching kids hate.  You're teaching the black community the wrong lessons here.  

KELLY:  Go ahead, Pastor.  

WEST:  Listen, at some point in time, the police have to be held accountable for their actions.  Again, I do hear you.  I do say -- I hear you saying that they had done everything.  They actually didn't.  What happened to the tasers?  What happened to the sleep gas?  Here is a five- year-old.  Let's hear this.  A five-year-old little boy in a home with --  

KELLY:  She put the child on her lap.  

WEST:  Come on, this was just an incident in Baltimore where there was a hostage situation.  This man did not die, and he had seven people that were held hostage at a Burger King.  

JACKSON:  You know, you can yell about this all you want.  Here's the real interesting part.  Here's the interesting part, Pastor.  Nothing has changed.  It's the same --  

WEST:  The five-year-old boy did not deserve to see his mother shot and killed.  

KELLY:  That's true.  Pastor, everyone can agree on that.  That five- year-old boy should not have been in that situation.  The reason he was is because of his mother who chose to put him.  Whether she was in the right or wrong, she never should have had that child on her lap, never, never.  
I'll give you the last word, Kevin.  I got to go.  

JACKSON:  Megyn, the --  

WEST:  I can say what I want.  I can say what I want.  

KELLY:  You can.

WEST:  I can say what I want.  

KELLY:  Go for it.  And you've been given an opportunity.  My only point is --

WEST:  Kelly, quickly.   


KELLY:  No responsible mother would put her five-year-old child on her lap while she's holding a long gun and engaging in a shootout with police.  

WEST:  I agree.  But, Kelly, for her to say that, I'll kill you -- for her to say, I'll kill you, she can say what she wants.  

KELLY:  I understood.  I agree, but there are consequences.  


I got to go.  I got to go.  I got to go.  Great to see you both.  

Breaking tonight, The Wall Street Journal just went up with a stunning story.  It reports that the Obama administration shipped $400 million in cash to the Iranians.  At the very same time that Iran was releasing those four American hostages.  Remember that?  The White House said at the time, no, we didn't -- we didn't pay money.  And even now they say, no.  There's no quid pro quo.  No, no.  But the critics are calling this a ransom payment, which would be directly contrary to U.S. policy.  
We're not allowed to pay ransom to get hostages back because that generally leads to more hostage-taking.  This story is just breaking.  We're still gathering the details and we'll going to have more for you very shortly.  

Plus, with the dust settling from these crazy primaries and this convention now behind this, Glenn Beck is back for the first time in months to talk Trump, Clinton and the 2016 race ahead.  

And then we have brand new details in the killing that shocked the country.  JonBenet Ramsey's brother breaking his silence 20 years after his sister's unsolved murder.  Stay tuned.  


KELLY:  Developing tonight, an eventful 24 hours for Donald Trump just keeps rolling with a series of events getting media attention today.  
Earlier today, the GOP nominee surprised voters at a Virginia rally by requesting that a crying baby be removed from the crowd.  


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Actually, I was only kidding.  You can get the baby out of here.  That's all right.  Don't worry.  I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I'm speaking.  


KELLY:  At that same event, a veteran handed over his prestigious Purple Heart to Mr. Trump, who joked that he's always wanted the award but that it's much easier to come by as a gift.  


KHIZR KHAN, GOLD STAR PARENT:  You're asking Americans to trust you with their future.  


KELLY:  Then there was this moment, which you've heard about.  Trump also spoke out about his ongoing feud with the Muslim family who took the stage at the DNC and talked about how their son gave his life for America while fighting in Iraq.  Trump saying he has no regrets about questioning the Khans and specifically wondering why the mother didn't speak.  She later said she was too grief-stricken.  

Also adding to a recent bout of campaign controversy, the answer Donald Trump gave when asked how he would want his daughter Ivanka to handle sexual harassment, quote, "I would like to think she would find another career or find another company if that was the case."  

Joining me now with all of this, Glenn Beck.  Founder of the Blaze and author of the brand new book -- hold on, hold on, let me plug your book.  
"Liars: How Progressives Exploit Our Fears for Power and Control."  Hi, Glenn.  


KELLY:  So, your thoughts on those five items that Mr. Trump has generated today.  

BECK:  Quite honestly, I think, if I may take it another direction, I think that the media and America is so myopic looking at this cult of personality between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump that we're missing the real story, and that is -- and I urge people to look this guy up.  It's the same kind of feeling and the same kind of research we did when we said there's a caliphate coming.  Russia is trying to destabilize our political system.  Dugan, who is a main adviser of Putin and a very dangerous man thinks that Hitler just didn't go far enough.  He's the guy who advised Putin to go into the Crimea.  He is now giving speeches in Russia where he is saying we are infiltrated into the political system.  

He is thinking that Donald Trump is the answer, not for -- I don't think he actually cares and, I don't think that either Hillary or Donald are involved in this in any way, but what they're trying to do is seed revolution on the streets.  Those are their words, and this is what we should be talking about.  This game is going to go on through November, and I don't know how it ends.  But I do believe based on their words only, that Russia is trying to take down Hillary Clinton, trying to destabilize our election, and foment revolution on our streets.  

KELLY:  Uh-hm.  You may be on to something there because General John Allen told me last week when he was endorsing Hillary Clinton that in his experience, the Russians study our elections very closely --  

BECK:  Yes.

KELLY: -- and they study our candidates very closely.  Almost from an anthropological standpoint to understand their psyche.  

BECK:  Russia is trying to do to us right now what we did to them under Ronald Reagan.  We have the same kind of things in play.  We collapsed the Soviet Union.  Putin is going to pay us back, and that's exactly what he's trying to do right now.  And the media and our politicians need to grow up and start talking about it.  The one politician that should be on every channel tonight -- and I'm not a fan of this man's policies -- is Mitt Romney.  Mitt Romney called this, and everybody mocked him.  

KELLY:  Mm-hmm.  

BECK:  We are about to find out that Russia is our biggest -- our biggest foe and our biggest nightmare.  

KELLY:  Yes.  That was when President Obama said that Russia called and they want to get their 1980 foreign policy back, I think something like that.  Let me ask you this.  Because there's other news to discuss tonight.  And specifically, I want to ask you about this, the latest poll showed Hillary Clinton got a big bump out of her convention.  She's now beating Donald Trump in at least three polls.  NBC has her with an eight-point lead.  CBS has her with a seven-point lead.  CNN has her with a nine-point lead over Trump.  Now, back in May, you said, I'm telling you, Donald Trump is going to win this election.  Given those polls, do you stand by that?

BECK:  I don't want to -- I mean I have no idea because I've been wrong every step of the way in this election.  I will tell you this.  As I watched both the -- you know, in my book, "Liars," I talk about what are the tools that progressives use to convince us of these lies?  It was quite amazing.  One of the first tools is fear.  The GOP ran high on fear.  But so did the DNC.  The DNC made it the fear of the Donald Trump, but they did something that the Republicans didn't do.  They told a very well-crafted story all the way through that we're better than this, that -- I mean honestly if I wasn't informed, if I was somebody who didn't know who Clinton was, I didn't recognize Marxist language, I would have watched that and thought, well, those are the people I want to be like.  Those people.  I like those people, if I didn't listen to their policies and I was uninformed.  They're using hope the way that Barack Obama used hope and change.  The thing that is going to play a real factor here is Russia.  
What happens to Russia?

KELLY:  All right.  I got to ask you this because you were a big supporter of Ted Cruz's.  When I found out he was speaking at the Democratic National Convention, I gave him a hard time on the show, he wasn't here, but you know, behind his back.  

BECK:  I know.

KELLY:  I mean, he could see it because --  

BECK:  I almost Facebook you because I was angry at you.  

KELLY:  I know.  Well, you know, I was saying, isn't it hypocritical of these politicians to get up there after they say, I hate this person and then speak on their behalf.  And you know, he and you were sort of saying, why don't you just hold on?  Why don't you just hold your horses, ma'am?  

BECK:  Right.

KELLY:  And then he got up at the Republican National Convention and shocked the world with this.  


SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Please don't stay home in November.  

If you love our country and love your children as much as I know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience.  Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the constitution.  


KELLY:  So I was wrong in the prediction of how that was going to go, and I want to ask you what you thought of the moment because, of course, he was excoriated by so many as committing political suicide.  

BECK:  Yes.  I think if he -- you know, if he had to do it all over again and he asked my opinion, which he didn't, I would say just don't -- just don't show up.  Just go away for a while.  However, I think that it gave a lot of people courage.  You know, Bernie Sanders did the exact opposite, which is what all the people of the GOP said they wanted Ted Cruz to do.  But soon as Bernie did that, everybody on both sides of the aisle said huge mistake for him.  He sold out his values.  His people no longer trust him.  I think he's the only guy with any credibility who did the tough thing.  When you saw that last 90 seconds of that speech, that was not easy in that cave.  

KELLY:  Ted Cruz?

BECK:  Yes.  When Ted Cruz stood there, he stood there, and he spoke his principles, and he spoke them with respect and decency, and he said vote your conscience.  Vote for the guy who's going to follow the constitution.  It's ironic that everybody in the crowd was booing him as if somehow or another they know that Donald Trump's not going to follow the constitution?

KELLY:  Mm-hmm.  

BECK:  It was foolishly played on the RNC side.   

KELLY:  They wanted the full-on, you know, vote for Donald Trump.  
Glenn, it's always a pleasure.  Well, check out the book "Liars."  It's easy to remember.  "Liars: How Progressives Exploit Our Fears for Power and Control."  Liars.

BECK:  Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY:  He says, "Liars."  

It's great to see you, Glenn.  All the best.  Good to have like the pithy title.  

More details coming in right now on our breaking news.  The Wall Street Journal reporting tonight that the Obama administration shipped$400 million in cash to the Iranians.  We're talking big, big piles of bills.  They made sure it wasn't in U.S. currency.  We'll get to why.  At the very same time Iran completely, coincidentally was releasing four Americans who had been held hostage.  We have new reaction from the White House just breaking, and we've got the details on this story you'll be hearing a lot about tomorrow.  

Also tonight, a first in American presidential politics as President Obama tries to torpedo Donald Trump's White House hopes.  Will it make a difference?  Trump spokesperson Katrina Pierson and Katie Pavlich are here, next.  Don't go away.    


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: Welcome back to "The Kelly File," everybody. In what we believe is a first in American politics, while sitting presidents often campaign for their candidate, president Obama today went a big step further by calling on his political rivals to reject their own party's nominee for president. Watch.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Yes, I think the Republican nominee is unfit to serve as president. I said so last week, and he keeps on proving it. And that's not just my opinion. That is the opinion of the many prominent Republicans. There has to come a point at which you say enough.

The alternative is that the entire party, the Republican Party, effectively endorses and validates the positions that are being articulated by Mr.


KELLY: Joining me now, Katrina Pierson, national spokesperson for the Trump campaign, and Katie Pavlich, a Fox News contributor and news editor of, great to see you both. So, Kat, what did you make of the president specifically weighing in and calling Donald Trump unfit today?

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, what else is he going to say, Megyn? There's still a little bit of the American dream left to kill and he wants Hillary to do it. This is coming from the same guy who ran in 2008, probably one of the most qualified people to ever run for office, never have run anything or created a single job, and it's shown throughout his tenure.

They have killed millions of jobs with Obamacare, now in an economy that's $2.2 trillion under average and single handedly destabilized the Middle East, and with the help of Hillary Clinton, unleash global terrorism.

KELLY: OK, so Katie, what we're seeing though is more and more Republicans kind of on the same track with president Obama. I mean just today we saw a New York representative come out and say, I'm not going to vote for him. I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton -- Representative Richard Hanna.
Governor Christie came out on the Khan comments -- the Khan family comments and said they were inappropriate. Paul Ryan said that we're in a fight right now for the soul of our party. What do you make of it?

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think that we should listen to president Obama as he lectures us about incivility and rhetoric considering the past eight years and the things he's said. But on that discussion, look, there's a lot of Republicans who have come out against what Donald Trump said about Captain Khan's family and rightly so. And Mr. Trump needs to realize that this isn't simply about what he's saying, and that because he is not a typical politician, he can say whatever he wants and get away with it.

But the fact is that other Republicans who are politicians running in tight races in the Senate and the House can't afford to be tied to those comments. And on that point, Donald Trump has his base locked up. He has the people who are going to vote for him voting for him. They're not going to change their mind no matter what. They said in polling across the board. What does it do for Donald Trump to be attacking the family of an American war hero at this point? And why can't he...

KELLY: Why is that Katrina, I mean, I know he says he's a counter-puncher, but he has to be a smart -- he has to be a smart politician to win the presidency. And is it smart to go after the Khan family in the way he did?

PIERSON: Well, first let's clarify. Donald Trump didn't attack anyone. He simply responded to the attacks against him. And secondly this congressman you spoke of has like a 31 percent rating on the Heritage Action scorecard, so he's essentially been voting with Democrats the whole time. And let's not pretend that these recent comments is what's really fueling the fire for some of these Republicans.

I mean, these are the same Republicans who haven't been following the party platform for decades, which is exactly why Mr. Trump was so successful. And if they want to continue to insult 13.5 million Republican voters, they should go right ahead because they won't forget that.

KELLY: But you know, she didn't really answer the question, Katie, about whether it was smart of Donald Trump, even if it was a, "counterattack" against a Gold Star family, is that smart? And has that helped Donald Trump?

PAVLICH: Well, it's not smart, and Donald Trump, in my opinion, did attack the Khan family by saying that Mr. Khan had no right to criticize him when his son died. In fact, for his right to say whatever he wanted on a national stage despite whether it's political. And you know what, Megyn, Dana Perino tells this great story in her book about how president Bush when he was at Walter Reed, he was visiting families and there was a mother there who was going to be a Gold Star mother as her son was sitting in a hospital bed, and she was angry.

And she said some words to president Bush, and he left that hospital saying, in the helicopter, on the way out, with tears on his face, "That mama sure was mad at me and I don't blame her." And that's how presidents lead, and that's what the attitude should be moving forward, and it's unfortunate that Donald Trump can't take that position.

KELLY: And just in case you're wondering, the name of Dana's book is "And the Good News is..."

PIERSON: Yeah, but the difference here though, Katie, is that Donald Trump had nothing to do with the war. He didn't send anybody into war. In fact, he's been against the war. Hillary sent...


KELLY: But it doesn't make a difference. We don't attack the family. He's being attacked by Trump for being indecent.

PIERSON: No, but he didn't attack the family, that's my point. He was talking about being attacked.

KELLY: Why did he ask whether the mother was allowed to speak, Katrina?

PIERSON: Because if you're looking at the segment, they talk about the reports that he has seen, and this father apparently has been...


KELLY: All right, I got to go because I have another panel waiting.

PIERSON: No, you're absolutely right, but...

KELLY: I'm sorry. They do that and it's kind of rude but we do have another panel sitting here. While this fight between Donald Trump and the Khan family has been spinning out over the last four days, a huge number of people have been piling on the candidate. But now there's a new letter that's gone viral from the combat vet questioning Mr. Khan's remarks and his defense of Democrats.

He writes in part, quote, "Does it matter whether Mr. Trump has sacrificed nothing and no one?" That's a quote from Mr. Khan. "Has Mrs. Clinton sacrificed for this nation? How about Mr. Obama?" He goes on, "As a father I cannot imagine the pain you must feel" -- this is to Mr. Khan. But his sacrifice, meaning Khan's son, is his own. He was not forced to serve.

The man behind that letter joins us now. Chris Mark served as a U.S. Marine and Navy officer. He was also a Scout and a sniper who deployed overseas. And Howie Kurtz is here too. He's been following the media aspect of this. Great to see you both. Chris...


KELLY: It's an interesting point because Mr. Khan wanted to know if Donald Trump had sacrificed and Trump came out and said, "You know, I've sacrificed plenty. I've worked hard," and, man, did he get hit for answering the question that was posed. Go ahead.

MARK: Yeah. So, I thought it was a bit exploitive of him to say that and simply being there and, you know, forgive me for saying this, but kind of bringing his son, who by all accounts is a true American hero. I mean, nobody is ever, you know, disputing that into this, you know, political debate. You know, there are only two criteria to be president in the United States, to be a U.S. citizen and 35 years old.

So, I have a little bit of -- take exception of the fact when people say, you know, what have you sacrificed? The fact whether or not you have or have not sacrificed in defense of this nation doesn't imbue you with any additional privileges. And that's really what compelled this blog post.

KELLY: And you talk in your open letter about you feel that he was paraded, that Mr. and Mrs. Khan were paraded on the stage by Democrats. What do you mean by that because, you know, I think they would respond by saying, we wanted to be there. We object to Donald Trump and his presidency, and we wanted our voices heard.

MARK: Yeah. You know, let me be honest, Megyn. After watching the Khans again and re-reading his comments without the context of them being at the DNC and without all of the fanfare and the emotion and everything, you know, I would like to kind of revise that statement. I think that they did that. They had an objective, but I don't think they were necessarily paraded any longer.

And again, I had to, you know, review my comments without the context of them being in the DNC. Again, I think it was either exploitive on the part of the DNC to put them out there. And again, if you look at Mrs. Smith from the RNC, she was taken to task for going out and talking about her son dying in Benghazi, and it seems like the Khans are being treated a bit differently. So, it's either exploitive on the DNC's part and I think it's a little bit opportunistic.

KELLY: OK, that's where I want to pick it up with Howie. Do you think there's been a difference, Howie? Does the coverage prove that there's been a difference between the media's reaction to Pat Smith, mother of a Benghazi victim, and to the Khans?

HOWIE KURTZ, "MEDIABUZZ" HOST: Absolutely, it is not even close. And by the way, they both committed political acts by speaking at political conventions, and they both spoke from the heart and I respect their right to speak out on behalf of their fallen sons. But if you look at the media coverage -- and, yes, Donald Trump fueled it in the case of Khizr Khan by criticizing the family.

But even before he said a word, the media rocket fuel embracing the Khan message, almost as if as their own -- front page of "The New York Times,"
putting them on "Meet the Press," on the "Today Show," all over cable -- showed that Khan's message and his accusation against Trump as an anti- Muslim bigot had a resonance for most of the mainstream media that Patricia Smith's very heartfelt comments in Cleveland did not.

KELLY: And what do you think the reason for that is?

KURTZ: I think, you know, when you strip it all away -- and, yes, you know, Patricia Smith had made this point in interviews many times, so she wasn't breaking news, and the mitigating factors. But when you really come down to it, I think the consensus in the mainstream media is that Patricia Smith was being unfair in personally blaming Hillary Clinton for the death of her son.

And that Khizr Khan, while not blaming obviously Trump for what happened during the Iraq war, was speaking for many Americans who don't like Trump's proposed temporary ban on Muslim immigrants so, a different -- it had more resonance here.

KELLY: But her story is more personal. I mean, she is alleging that she was lied to directly about her son's death by Hillary Clinton. You know, the Khan family is just objecting to Donald trump's policies and his statements. They're not alleging a dishonest personal interaction with the casket of their son steps away, which is that's why we put Pat Smith on the air, and you can think whatever you want about Pat Smith or Mr. and Mrs. Khan, but they were given a platform.

They were given a platform. We invited the Khan family on here. So far, no luck, but they've been all over media and hopefully they'll come here eventually. It's great to see you both.

KURTZ: Thanks Megyn.

MARK: Thank you.

KELLY: Up next, Mark Thiessen is here on the breaking news reports out of Iran that the Obama administration shipped $400 million in cash to Iran at the very same time that country was releasing four Americans who had been held hostage.

Plus, 20 years after the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, her brother -- her brother is finally breaking his silence. We'll have a full report.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, the White House just responded to a stunning new report out of the "Wall Street Journal" saying the Obama administration secretly airlifted $400 million in cash to Tehran at the very same time four American hostages were released. Critics are calling it a ransom payment and we are not supposed to pay ransoms.

The White House is denying that, saying this cash had nothing to do with the hostages but was part of a payment the U.S. agreed to going all the way back to the time the shah was still in power. Mark Thiessen is a Fox News contributor and a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Mark, so, I mean, was it a quid pro quo?

MARK THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Of course it was a quid pro quo. Their denials are completely laughable. I mean, first of all, "The Wall Street Journal" reports that U.S. officials admitted to the journal that Iranian negotiators on the hostage deal were actually asking for this money in exchange as a sign that they were making progress. So, this was literally a specific request the Iranian hostage negotiators were making.

And second of all, if it wasn't a ransom deal, why the secrecy? Why send an unmarked plane with wooden pallets filled with Swiss Francs and other non- U.S. currency in the dead of night to arrive in Tehran just by the way, by coincidence on the very day that the hostages are released? And why keep it secret from Congress and the American people?

I mean where they perhaps worried that the American people would be upset to learn that they were evading U.S. sanctions law because it is illegal under U.S. sanctions law to give cash to the Iranian regime, and they were giving them hard currency that they can use to fund terrorism, support the Assad regime in Syria, and advance their nuclear program. I think Americans would be pretty upset to learn about it as they probably are tonight.

KELLY: So why is it a bad idea to pay ransoms, and why do you think we did it if that's what we did?

THIESSEN: Well, the reason it's a bad idea to pay ransoms is because it incentivizes the kidnapping of Americans. President Obama sat down in the oval office and said to himself, how can I come up with a policy that will incentivize Iran and other countries to kidnap American citizens around the world, this would be the policy we did? And guess what, it's worked.

Since he made that cash payment, Iran has taken more Americans hostage and demanded more money. Since the payments were made, they've taken two more American -- Iranian-Americans hostage. They've taken dual nationals from France, from Canada, and the U.K. and second...

KELLY: We're coming up on our break Mark. I got to leave it at that, but there's a lot more on this story and we'll continue it.

THIESSEN: All right.

KELLY: By the way, again, the White House is denying this. They're saying there's no connection. Up next, the very latest on JonBenet Ramsey's brother speaking out.


KELLY: Developing tonight, for the first time the brother of murdered beauty pageant princess, little JonBenet Ramsey, now breaking his silence.
Burke was 9 years old when his sister was brutally murdered, and their parents quickly became the prime suspects for a time. Trace Gallagher live in L.A. with the latest.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, all the investigative records and statements indicate that when 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey suffered a skull fracture and was strangled somewhere inside the Ramsey home, her 9-year-old brother Burke was soundly sleeping inside his room. In fact, in 2008, two years after Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer, all three members of the Ramsey family were cleared of any wrongdoing.

And yet in 2010, 14 years after the murder, Boulder police wanted to speak with Burke Ramsey. At the time, the family attorney called it harassment and Burke Ramsey refused the offer. It's unclear exactly what investigators were trying to unlock in Burke's memory, but now Dr. Phil tells "The Kelly File" that his interview will have, quote, "shocking, never before heard details about the case."

And there are many unanswered details like no forced entry, no footprints in the snow. A ransom note written on a piece of paper inside the home, just to name a few. Somebody certainly killed JonBenet Ramsey, and we will soon get information we have likely never heard, Megyn.

KELLY: Wow. Fascinating. I'll be watching that one. Trace, thank you. We'll be right back. Don't go away.  


KELLY: So we're closing in on 2 million Twitter followers @megynkelly. Why don't you help us go over the top and we will just happen to deliver $400 million in cash, and it will have nothing -- it won't be related at all.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.