Anti-Trump delegates fight to change GOP convention rules

Carl Cameron explains push for roll call on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 18, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld, it's 5 o'clock in New York City and in Cleveland at the site of the Republican National Convention and this is "The Five." Welcome, everybody. Chaos on day one of the Republican National Convention, an uproar on the floor over delegates, just moments ago. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All those in favor say aye, all those opposed no. And the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the resolution is agreed to. Without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.


BOLLING: Campaign Carl Cameron is here with us to explain exactly what's going on. Now Carl, I understand, seven states could have forced the vote. They got nine. What happened?

CARL CAMERON, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, great political theater, tremendously entertaining and very, very disturbing for republicans to have this happen on the first day. There was an attempt by the never-Trumpers, the stop-Trumpers, the anti-Trump forces to get a roll call vote on the floor. And what they were trying to do was having obtained a majority of the delegates in seven states, the requirement to bring a motion to the floor from the minority of the rules committee they wanted a roll call vote and they thought that if everybody will raised their hands and be counted that there was a possibility that they could actually get it to pass. They didn't. They got, as you saw there on that video, dramatic as it was, they got instead of voice vote and that leaves it up to the chair to decide who yell louder in that convention center of thousands and thousands of people. And the chair's determination was that the nays have it, that the never- Trumpers get stopped in their tracks, notwithstanding their beliefs that by having a majority of the delegates in seven states. In one case, Mike Lee, the senator from Utah said that they 11 states worth of majorities, others said it was closer to nine. But they did top it and because they got a voice vote they were literally shouted down. And in addition to what we saw there on the screen a little while ago, Ken Cuccinelli, the former attorney general from Virginia and a very strong Cruz supporter ripped off his credentials, threw them on the ground and stormed out. It gives you an idea that there's not entire unity here because of the dissent against Trump, but they were shouted down, voice-voted down, and there aren't a lot of other options left.

BOLLING: We're going to bring around Carl, but is that it? Was that the final straw to the never-Trump camel?

CAMERON: There really isn't an alternative.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Until November?

CAMERON: The minority report has been now struck down twice. There's really no other way to get back there. And as a consequence, it's now Trump's to win. And the idea that anybody -- and the other thing is, even with all of this maneuvering with the rules, there isn't anybody waiting there to step up.

PERINO: Right.

CAMERON: There isn't an alternative that the convention has been made aware of to step forward, so this becomes a defeat for the never-Trumpers, a victory for the RNC and for Donald Trump and an uprising that frankly, they thought they had already put down and rose again today and that's the chaos, that's the confusion and the disappointment.

PERINO: So somebody that was on the floor for Kentucky sent me a note saying that -- obviously, Kentucky wasn't part of any of those states that were never-Trump, but he said that Senator Mike Lee of Utah has a point that at least the RNC could provide an explanation as how that voice vote decision happened, because I don't think -- to me this is seems like a family that has a bunch of issues that they've never talked about and now it's thanksgiving dinner and everyone is mad. And on "The Wall Street Journal" poll on Sunday that came out, Wall Street Journal/NBC, 60 percent of republicans or lean republicans said they would have preferred someone else as the nominee. So from the RNC standpoint, yes, victory tonight in a way, but how do they then explain to these people that are so mad -- what happened?

CAMERON: Well, they probably don't explain it to them. And that's sort of why they made a voice vote and closed it all down. They don't have to explain it. The RNC makes its own rules, they bend their own rules. Donald Trump is not wrong when he says that these systems are occasionally rigged. They're rigged to win.

PERINO: But yeah, but he said they were rigged against him before. Now they're rigged in his favor?

CAMERON: But they're rigged in his favor, they're rigged to win, they're rigged try to quell .


CAMERON: . this type of dissent. Clearly, it didn't quell the dissent, but it did quell the motion.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Anybody?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I just have a question. I mean where, where does it go from here? I mean basically, this is opening night. We're going to hear, I guess, from Melania Trump. And we know what time that's going to happen and kind of aback about that, right.

CAMERON: After this melee is tamped down and it's going to take some hand shaking and some arm twisting, then things will begin to sort of move much more normally. We will see Mrs. Trump tonight. We also see two people who are on the shortlist, Lieutenant General Mike Flynn and Senator Joni Ernst. Tonight is about make America safe again. So we're going to hear as lot about law and order, we're going to hear a lot about terrorism overseas, we're going to see it here, a lot about domestic violence particularly involving police officers and the kind of violence we've been seeing. So that's what tonight is supposed to be about, not the political violence that the never-Trumpers were visited, had visited upon them this afternoon.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So Carl, let's go behind the scenes on this. One is obviously the iron hand of Reince Priebus saying, "Hey, this is what I wanted set up. I thought I had dealt with it before, it's now --"

CAMERON: That maybe the first time anybody has ever said that Reince Priebus has an iron hand.

WILLIAMS: I know. Exactly, that's pretty good, but --

GUILFOYLE: He's probably like that.

WILLIAMS: Because I noticed today was Paul Manafort going after the governor of Ohio and saying, "Hey, what's going on here? What kind of loyalty are we seeing from the governor of Ohio, alienating the Governor Kasich?" But secondly, a lot of talk about whether or not, Ted Cruz, another potential opponent, would have the opportunity to speak at the convention.

CAMERON: So the understanding was, that in order to get a speaking slot at this convention, you had to endorse Donald Trump. Ted Cruz was promised a speaking slot, said he would take it even though he has yet to do so. Part of the negotiation about whether he gets his slot fill and actually gets to speak is whether or not the content of his speech will include something like an endorsement if not an actual.



CAMERON: And Cruz is sort of hedging on that. So it's a negotiation still under way. Again, this is the sort of stuff that usually happens in the smoke-filled back rooms. Today it was right there on the auditorium floor where there's no smoke. You got to see.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think a lot of people might say, oh you know, Juan is the demagogue. He says he's kind of enjoying this. But in fact, I think it's very interesting that in a populist year, you see the populism comes to the fore and it's being squelched, absolutely stepped on.

CAMERON: Well, the populism this time around comes more from the establishment republicans.


CAMERON: The populism throughout this campaign has been believed to be in Donald Trump's supporters. Donald Trump supporters are going to go bananas if there is some sort of a parliamentary rule .


CAMERON: . or some sort of a rule massage at the last second that pulls the rug out from under them. And the truth is the RNC has been from the outset saying, there are plenty of ways that this will be stopped. There was a rumor, at one point today, that after the never-Trumpers had gotten their more than seven-state majorities, that they couldn't find the secretary to actually show them the signatures and I got to tell you .

WILLIAMS: Very convenient.

CAMERON: . as far back as the debate that took place in Miami in March, there were -- RNC people saying, you know some of the delegates may just not be able to leave their hotel rooms that day and come vote. Some of them may decide that they go on a fieldtrip and just leave the compound all together, in order to not vote. So, there's a lots of ways that this was going to get gamed. In the end it happened from the podium.

BOLLING: All right, Greg.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, to me, I mean this is disturbing in a sense that we, we keep hearings like how important unity is. We've also been told by Trump that he doesn't need a lot of these people. So my feeling is I don't think this is over. I don't think it's over by a long shot. I think it's like the walking dead. It's going to come back. I have a question for you. When he picked Pence, did that tickle the preppers?


CAMERON: Yes, and it ends the suspence .


CAMERON: . and the tuppence (ph) for me and the tuppence (ph) for you. It goes on -- the jokes and the quips about how that happened will continue, probably all the way through this election.


CAMERON: This was not a very smooth rollout.

GUTFELD: It looked like an arranged marriage from the Middle East country. And there were the angry men that were demanding it and the women on the other side saying, please don't do it.

CAMERON: You don't have to go back to far to remember when Sarah Palin was picked as a McCain running mate. That was considered a chaotic rollout. This one may not have been and quite is dramatic and the sweeping landscapes weren't quite as gorgeous, but the bare knuckle stuff was one of the more chaotic rollouts for any presidential/vice presidential nominee ticket.

GUTFELD: It's hard for -- like on the 60 minutes segment to be in a two- person interview to be -- to look confident because the guy's in charge. You have to sit there. You're like a concubine in the headlights. You know, you're just sitting there. It just didn't look that attractive.

CAMERON: They're not all that well-familiar with each another. They know one another's records, they've been put -- of course, Pence was a Cruz guy himself, for the longest time.


CAMERON: So there's a little bit of tension that sort to build into this. And the other aspect to it is Trump is a master of bringing himself attention. He's not accustomed to sharing it with anybody.

PERINO: Right.

CAMERON: He's happy to do it with his wife and his kids in the convention here.

PERINO: They have the same last name.

CAMERON: At the rollout, at the rollout the other day in New York .


CAMERON: . Trump spoke for 45 minutes, Pence spoke for four. I mean it was --

PERINO: Well, it is a vice presidential role. I mean, you don't like, you're not like front and center.

CAMERON: Sure. They had the chance to --

PERINO: Can I ask you on one more question about the -- three of the states that were asking for this roll call vote; Iowa, Virginia and Colorado, arguably three states that Donald trump needs to win in November, unless we've got another path to 270 electoral votes. What will the campaign do to sort of deal with them, because the people that are complaining today are party activists.

CAMERON: Well, Virginia's tough. And Cuccinelli has said -- and he's obviously a Virginia republican and has run for a variety of offices and been around for a long time, he's deeply concerned that Trump might lose that state.


CAMERON: Iowa is also a swing state, and it's the same sort of a problem there. Trump didn't win the Iowa caucuses. You know, he started with a loss in the caucuses. And Colorado is incredibly important swing states. And (inaudible), the delegate and the chairman of their delegation is one of the never-Trump pushers. So there's animus there. It is not the case in a handful of other swing states. And, of course, Trump has his safely red and Hillary will have her safely blue.

PERINO: Right.

CAMERON: On the Electoral College map right now, things seem to be tilted towards Clinton, but we're just getting started here.


CAMERON: I mean granted --

PERINO: Trump could get a pretty decent bump out of this convention.

CAMERON: They've both -- both candidates, both Hillary and Trump have had plenty of time to start and get things ready to go, but they really can't, really hit the gas until after the convention. Now we're finally almost there.

BOLLING: Carl, we gonna have to let you go in just a second. We have one quick comment of, just tell me that it's not as bad as it seems. I've been there on the floor in 2012 when there was a roll, there was a vote, a vocal vote and the ayes were aye and the nays were nay, but the ayes held. And I was there again today when the same thing happened. Politics as usual, continues or what?

CAMERON: Well, this time around it was to the potential aid and help of Ted Cruz. The last time we had this type of an uproar was when Ron Paul .

BOLLING: Yeah, yeah.

CAMERON: . was protesting not having been allotted the delegates that he thought he had in Iowa. And by acclamation --

GUTFELD: What did they use the system, it's fully efficient.

CAMERON: At the end of this, there will be a vote to make the nomination by acclamation.


CAMERON: You're going to hear a lot of people say no. You're going to hear the chairmen say, the ayes have it. It's by acclamation.

GUTFELD: Right, because when you go to the airport, you can now order food with a button, you know at LaGuardia. Why can't people just punch buttons?

BOLLING: Or order their nominee with buttons.


GUTFELD: Order their nominee with --

BOLLING: All right.

PERINO: Swipe right, swipe left.

BOLLING: We got to let Carl go because he's headed back over the -- to the Q, they call it the Q, the Quicken Arena.


BOLLING: Much more to come ahead on day one of the Republican National Convention. Stay around. More behind the scenes video from our road trip this weekend. Stay with us, please.


GUTFELD: It's day one of the convention and the topic is security. Recent months have been a game of ping-pong between Islamism and attacks on police. One week it's Orlando, another it's Dallas, then France, then Baton Rouge. Terror and attacks on police share a common desire to dismantle civilization. For the Islamists, it's about ending the world because the next one is going to be so much better for them. For the haters of police, it's about creating warring tribes to rot a country from within.

We face external and internal threats. How can America survive that? The next president must be able to nail that question.

He or she must prioritize threats knowing that fossil fuels are way nicer than ISIS and that transgendered bathrooms must take a backseat to killing jihadists.

This leader must understand that terror changes more so than climate, as technology creates new avenues at a breathless pace. It won't be just trucks and guns -- add drones, phones and bio-agents. And safety won't be achieved through the coddling of identity hucksters demanding protection from the loathsome behavior they encourage.

So as we focus on safety, ask yourself this: Who among our choices exhibit the temperament, the drive and attention span need to focus on security? And who will listen to those who know the threat? Because more of the same is not an option and, frankly, one of our options could be really worse.

So KG .


GUTFELD: . tonight's theme, make America safe again, strongly implies -- maybe it's not that safe, but it's a good place to start?

GUILFOYLE: I think it is a good place to start. People can relate to that, the law and order brand to say, this is a country that we need to restore public safety and security. And it really couples nicely with the whole idea of national security, foreign policy, a strong military being able to defend our country and leadership that is going to make great choices. When you think about the aftermath even of just the past week in 10 days of what's gone on in this country and what's gone overseas. People don't necessary have a tremendous amount of confidence.


GUILFOYLE: They are less actually thirsting for some kind of strength and someone to focus on that as a priority and, unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, she's been woefully absent and late on responses and not really engendering that much confidence from those that are looking for a different kind of leadership.

GUTFELD: You know, Juan, it seems like the events that are happening are dictating the vote. And to Kimberly's point, Trump was already there talking about this stuff and Hillary has been lagging way far behind. And I think she's trying to catch up, but it doesn't seem like it's happening.

WILLIAMS: Well, actually, you know, I thought after Orlando, I thought it would play to Trump's benefit, the law and order theme. But he just bumbled the whole thing way trying to tell people, oh, yeah, as I told you I predicted this and then sort of gloating about it. And I think it really turned off a lot of people. So I'm not sure he knows how to handle it. In this situation that what we've seen, the horrific occurrences in Baton Rouge, he talks about the nation as a divided crime scene.


WILLIAMS: He says Obama doesn't have a clue, as if he didn't hear what President Obama had to say yesterday about there being no excuse for violence against law enforcement in this country. So, it's, you know, it's so interesting to me. It's almost as if he's playing to a specific segment, but I think that segment was already going to vote for Donald Trump, and then he ignores the idea that, hey, you know what, I look at these statistics, black people 2 1/2 times as likely as white people to be shot and killed by the police?

GUTFELD: Who accuse them, though?

WILLIAMS: The police?

GUTFELD: Yeah, black and Hispanic officers are more likely than white officers.

WILLIAMS: It's true. I'm just saying the police. And what we've got here is the problem. One of the officers killed yesterday, Greg, was a black policeman.



WILLIAMS: Talk about not being loved in Baton Rouge .

GUTFELD: Very true, very true.

WILLIAMS: . even when he was out of uniform saying, he was viewed as a threat. The other thing I was going to tell you was, that of unarmed people shot and killed in 2015, 40 percent black men who are just as you know, 6 percent of the population. So what you see is that --


WILLIAMS: That's a legitimate crime statistics.

BOLLING: Did you use any crime statistics there in those, put those numbers up against the amount of crimes being perpetrated by African-Americans?

WILLIAMS: Oh, sure. Yeah, I mean, is this disproportionate?

BOLLING: And so -- but the rate isn't as disproportionate as you're making it out to seem --

WILLIAMS: No, it is.

BOLLING: No, they're not.

WILLIAMS: Because when they factor in --

BOLLING: Because African-Americans are committing crime at a much higher rate --

WILLIAMS: That has been -- again, that's not related. So you can say there's more crime in the black community.

BOLLING: But the police shooting people who are committing crime, it's more white people?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. You have unarmed people.

BOLLING: It's math, it just straight math.

WILLIAMS: Let me just reiterate to you. It was unarmed people shot and killed --

BOLLING: You don't have to be armed to perpetrate a crime, Juan.

WILLIAMS: But you -- what I'm saying is --

BOLLING: You can still rape someone without a gun.

WILLIAMS: I don't think --


WILLIAMS: This is not -- this is not related (inaudible).


PERINO: Quick.

GUTFELD: Yes, go.

PERINO: Well, when we were talking about security -- as of 2004, in that election, George W. Bush was running for re-election and was able to talk to, when he be called, security moms. OK? In this election, I feel like there's not -- this is just me talking. I haven't. There's not a specific name for them. But given the anxiety in the country, I think you could call them insecurity moms or insecure moms. And it's not just national security; it is law enforcement and also the economy. So I don't know if that's the best phrase to describe them, but I think that way you'll see tonight and then on the night we're going to talk about the economy here, they're trying to form a message to try to talk to both moms to say, it will be-- you'll be more secure under a Trump administration than you would be a Clinton administration. I think they have a little bit of a higher bar to clear, but I think that you're right. People don't want more of the same from the last few years.

GUTFELD: Yes. And I think that's what --

GUILFOYLE: Concerned moms. Yeah.

BOLLING: Can I just throwing that out very quickly, I think you're 100 percent right that Donald Trump had that space staked out prior to the last couple of shootings. And if you remember, after San Bernardino and after Orlando, both President Obama and Hillary Clinton brought up the gun debate. And that's not sitting well with American trade.


BOLLING: Right now, Americans want more safety not fewer guns to protect themselves.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just wonder if people are going to say, hmm, who is -- which candidate is going to actually reduce racial tensions, reduce (inaudible) --

BOLLING: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

WILLIAMS: . in the country.

BOLLING: It wasn't --


BOLLING: It wasn't the first black president. It wasn't the first black president.

WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?

BOLLING: The racial divide is wider now than was --

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think it was higher levels of people saying they think race relations are worsening. And I don't know the thing that's --


GUILFOYLE: Well, who is -- and that's under a black president.

GUTFELD: You guys disagreed. Donald Trump will be making and roll that whatever you want me to say, making an early appearance at the RNC tonight when he introduces his wife Melania. He gave Fox News a preview of her speech. You'll hear that ahead. (inaudible) oh yeah, a road trip to the convention. I'm on a camel there. Going to see more of that camel riding stuff, stay tuned.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back. The Republican National Convention is underway here in Cleveland. Donald Trump's big moment doesn't arrive until Thursday, but delegates won't have to wait that long to see him. He'll be introducing his wife Melania tonight. The presumptive GOP nominee gave "Fox & Friends" a preview of what we can expect to hear.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESUMPTIVE GOP NOMINEE: She is going to be speaking about her love of the country. And don't forget, she came into the country. She worked hard. She came into the country. She gained legal status, as the expression goes, and she's a terrific person and a terrific woman. And she is going to -- I'll bet she gives a great speech. She's worked hard on it. I will be there. I want to watch. It's going to be very exciting.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So this is obviously going to be a big moment because, number one, you get to see the republican nominee, and number two, you get to hear from his very sweet, lovely wife Melania. What do you think about this moment, Dana?

PERINO: Well, I think she is certainly number one in his eyes, and several months ago .


PERINO: . I've read an article -- what do you mean by that? I read an article in "Harper's Bazaar" several months ago is the feature story about her and about -- she spoke briefly about what was it like when he asked her, talked to her about wanting to run for the presidency. And the article is really good. I encourage people to check it out before the speech. And I like it when she turned to him and she said, you know, "I'll be there." It's like you understand that if you run, you're going to win. And she's been there with him. She's kind of been behind the scenes but always behind the scenes like in a very supportive role. I give a lot of deference to any spouse that can get up and give a speech like this. I think she'll be really charming tonight.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And, you know, Greg, I know her, for, you know, many years. I've met her before. She's very warm. And I think the more people get know her and, you know, have an experience with her and be get the exposure, they're going to really like her. You know, I think that's an asset for him.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I mean, I met her once. She seemed like a very pleasant woman. And I do like the fact that she gets upset with Donald about certain things and tells him -- I think there was something she was upset about with --

PERINO: Tweeting.

GUTFELD: Tweeting. She was trying to -- just like my wife. She says like, get off the Twitter for God sakes. Talk to real people. But it's interesting like how this convention is. It's going to be like "The Osmonds." Remember that TV show in the '70s, except it's Osmonds with politicians. The entire Trump family, we will see them every single night. It will be like Donny and Marie and Wayne and everybody -- maybe they'll do a dance number.


BOLLING: Well, I think that's a good thing. You know, in this --

GUILFOYLE: Very likable family.

BOLLING: You watch Donald and -- you watch Donald when Melania is talking, when they're doing an interview together. And he really pays attention to her. It's not like he's worried about what she'll going to say. He just -- he loves her. You can see he loves her.


BOLLING: And, when the kids talk, it's just, it's amazing. They talk so highly of their father. I know it's their father, and it's a family. You have to say hats off to the guy who can raise kids like that who love him the way they do, and a wife who respects and enjoys him and shares everything with him, and he respects her back. It seems like a great relationship all the way around.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Juan, what do you think? I mean, it's nice to have, you know, the family members, the boys have certainly been very good on his behalf. We'll hear from Ivanka, too, later in the week, I believe. So an asset for him?

WILLIAMS: I was wondering about this, because I think she's lovely. I mean, boy, you know, I know it's not the politically correct thing to say, but she is a beautiful woman.


WILLIAMS: Yes, I know.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: So I think -- I think...

BOLLING: Microaggression...

WILLIAMS: There we go.

BOLLING: ... against the ladies on the table.

WILLIAMS: I know, OK. You know, but I wonder how America reacts to the accent. She has not spoken much. I think the one time I heard her speak was in Milwaukee.

BOLLING: Microaggression, too.

WILLIAMS: Was in Milwaukee. And she -- you know, I was looking forward to, you know, OK, so what I this, you know, running mate going to look like, going to say? And basically, she said, you know, he's a kind man. He's a smart man. He's a tough man. He's a great man.

GUILFOYLE: He's good for women.

WILLIAMS: So it's like a character witness. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: She said that he was good for women.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But it was very short. But it struck me as a character witness.

PERINO: But she doesn't seek the limelight. And I think that America might like that.

WILLIAMS: But that's not traditional. See, I don't think...

PERINO: That's not true.

WILLIAMS: Unlike the Bush -- unlike the Bush wives, who I think were pushing forward in terms of what the woman's role is, or even Michelle Obama, you haven't heard what is it that would be the cause that Melania Trump would...

PERINO: She'll come to one.

GUTFELD: You've got to -- the accent thing, she's going to be -- she has to be cognizant of that. You've got to -- that you have to support somebody who does that, because it's hard to speak. I mean, she's in a difficult position. So you've got to give her credit.

GUILFOYLE: Well, Trump and his newly-announced running mate, Mike Pence, did their first joint interview together on "60 Minutes" last night. Trump is confident his selection of Pence will help unite a fractured party.


LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES": You must have considered, obviously, by the reaction to your choice, a lot of the conservatives are very happy.


STAHL: Was that part of the...

TRUMP: Yes. It was party unity. I'm an outsider. I'm a person that used to be establishment when I'd give them hundreds of thousands of dollars, but when I decided to run, I became very anti-establishment, because I understand the system better than anybody else.

STAHL: Is he establishment?

TRUMP: He's very establishment in many ways, and that's not a bad thing. But I will tell you...

STAHL: Kind of interesting.

TRUMP: ... I have seen more people that, frankly, did not like me so much and now they're saying, what a great pick.


GUILFOYLE: All right. So Dana, what do you think? This is a helpful choice? And what did you think of that interview?

PERINO: I think it's a fine choice. But the interview is like a little awkward for their first time together. I thought the setting was strange. I would have done it -- I would have done it somewhere...

GUTFELD: Not in Golden Square (ph)?

PERINO: ... like where you want to make America great again. I mean, I would have done that.

GUTFELD: Mr. Jones (ph).

PERINO: But I have heard from people that I know and just listening around at the convention that, yes, people were -- maybe people were on the fence about Donald Trump, that Mike Pence gives you some confidence that it would be a good ticket.

And I did think it was good when he said at one point, "I will listen to him." I don't know if that actually turns out to be true, but I thought that was a good thing to say.

GUILFOYLE: What do you think, Greg?

GUTFELD: I think that it's very hard to do an interview when you're interviewing two people. So no matter who -- no matter who is second fiddle, always...

PERINO: The potted plant.

GUTFELD: Yes, you just look like a potted plant. So it's like very easy to laugh at that interview, but you have to understand that they're at a disadvantage when you're doing that. When you have the guy in charge...


GUTFELD: This guy's not in charge. He's always going to look kind of like, you know, the -- you know, the frightened deer in the headlights.

WILLIAMS: Well, I was wondering -- I was wondering to myself, though, in that interview, exactly why is it that, even when they were on stage and he was being introduced on Saturday, it was all Trump speaking for what, 40 minutes, and then Pence for a few minutes.

And then what I typically experience in politics is that the nominee and his vice-presidential selection go out for, like, three days on the hustings to be introduced. None of that. Yesterday, Trump was playing golf.

GUTFELD: Better than Palin.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Eric.

BOLLING: So when he first announced Pence, you know, I like Newt. I just love Newt.

GUTFELD: Yes, me, too.

BOLLING: I think he's brilliant.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Newt's amazing.

BOLLING: A lot of great ideas. He's a brilliant guy.

And I was reluctant. And the more I hear Pence, the more I like him, to be honest with you. He's solid; he's stable. As Dana points out, he defers to Donald Trump. After all, Donald Trump's the nominee.

GUILFOYLE: In a nice way. And Dana's pointed out before that he's very well-liked, not only as the governor but for his experience with other senators and whatnot.

All right. Next, things got wild during our road trip to Cleveland this weekend. Yes, they did. We went to the Columbus Zoo before we got here yesterday. So stay tuned for the highlights from that pit stop ahead. You don't want to miss it.

PERINO: A lot of lighting (ph)...

GUILFOYLE: Look at the giraffe.


GUTFELD: Bryan Adams.

WILLIAMS: Welcome back. We're here in Cleveland at the Republican National Convention. We arrived yesterday after two days on the road from New York on our very cool bus.

We made lots of fun stops. One of them was a visit to the Columbus Zoo. It was almost like being on safari. Here's a look.


WILLIAMS: We're here at the Columbus Zoo.

Feeding these lovely giraffes. Maple.

BOLLING: Canadian?

WILLIAMS: No, not Canadian. We're in Ohio.

PERINO: OK. Whoa, hi.

BOLLING: Suzie is going to tell us about her baby, her favorite attraction here. Go ahead, Suzie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the cheetah exhibit, because people can actually see the cheetahs run here.

Chasing a lure. We train her to chase the lure. And so that would be like chasing prey in Africa.






One of the most exciting things you're going to see at the Columbus Zoo is when you actually get to feed the lions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We actually are not going the feed the lions. You don't get to feed the lions when you come to the Columbus Zoo.

GUTFELD: You don't get to feed the lions?


GUILFOYLE: This is where the news segment goes terribly wrong.

GUTFELD: Riding the camel. A long forgotten Motley Crue album.

There we go.



PERINO: It's not a bucking camel?

GUTFELD: Could you watch your language, young lady?

Interesting fact about camels: People think they store water in the hump, but actually it stores fat for nourishment. So in a way, when a male has a pot belly, it's the equivalent of a camel hump. So when your husband has a pot belly, go, "Oh, he's trying to keep healthy by storing nourishment." You guys don't know but I actually have a background in zoology just by I read a lot of stuff on the...

PERINO: He wasn't only the editor of "Men's Health." He was the editor of "Zoo False Facts."

WILLIAMS: There we go.


GUTFELD: You know what this reminds me of?


GUTFELD: Nothing. Because I've never done it before.

PERINO: Why Eric not want to do it?

GRAPHIC: Where's Eric? Taking "Five."

GUILFOYLE: We love it. We love the Columbus Zoo.

WILLIAMS: Fabulous.

GUILFOYLE: I want to thank Liffi (ph) for the ride.

PERINO: Thanks, Uber.

GUTFELD: Yes, thank you. That's fun.

Off to Cleveland.

GUILFOYLE: Off to Cleveland.

GUTFELD: It's down there somewhere.

GUILFOYLE: RNC, here we come.

BOLLING: The bus to Cleveland. What, an hour and a half?



PERINO: We made it.

WILLIAMS: What is your highlight, K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: So I love it. From riding the carousel with you, right, at Hersheypark to then riding the camel. I thought it was good, because I think it's a good bipartisan approach to kind of like bring people together. Especially with the Lipper (ph) along the back.

BOLLING: The camel?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Exactly.

GUTFELD: That was terrible. Why didn't you want to ride a camel?

BOLLING: I went and got everyone coffee while you guys -- no, actually, Dana...

PERINO: No, that's not true.

GUILFOYLE: Lyin' Eric Bolling.

BOLLING: Dana...

PERINO: I came up with a...

BOLLING: The ballot? The one...

PERINO: I came up with the nice reason. I was thinking, well, Eric, maybe he thought it was mean to ride a camel.


PERINO: Like you were trying to be nice to the camel. But then he said, that's not really it. So why did you?

GUTFELD: Because you knew there was five and there was an odd man out.

BOLLING: Yes, I just wanted you guys to have a great time.

WILLIAMS: You know what I remember...

GUILFOYLE: The truth is Bolling got left behind, because in a camel episode of "The Bachelorette," I chose Juan.


GUTFELD: He was attacked by a camel as a child.

BOLLING: Right. I didn't get the camel rose from you or Dana, so...

WILLIAMS: I think he was just being nice. That's all.

PERINO: That's what I thought.

WILLIAMS: That's what I thought.

But let me just say, one thing I remember is that you said when you were petting the cheetah, it was a surprise to you.

BOLLING: The hair. You know, they look so smooth, but it was rough. It was really rough. And you pet, and I got a handful of fur. They just shed quite a bit.

GUTFELD: Mark Steyn's going to write a song about that.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. That video.

WILLIAMS: That video was one of the...

GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable.

GUTFELD: For anybody who doesn't really know, Mark Steyn released a whole album about cats. It's the most disturbing thing you will ever see.

PERINO: We watched it on the bus.

WILLIAMS: You sure did.

BOLLING: We watched it last night at dinner, didn't we?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Not at dinner. We showed Juan and Raffi, yes.

GUTFELD: You were so disturbed.

BOLLING: I thought it was -- I thought it was a parody at first.


BOLLING: But apparently, it's not.

GUILFOYLE: If you're into cats, you might find it sexy.

GUTFELD: Are you really into cats? You're really into cats?

PERINO: Couldn't we all agree that the Columbus Zoo actually way exceeded our expectations? That place is amazing.

BOLLING: Unbelievable.

GUTFELD: The best zoo I've ever been at.

GUILFOYLE: And the people that work there, I mean, A-plus. If anybody -- it's worth driving across state lines, put it that way.

PERINO: Yes, do it.

WILLIAMS: So they have lots of zoos in Ohio. I think we could say that they are well run. Just fantastic. And thank you so much to the Columbus Zoo and aquarium.

Directly ahead, more fun from our exciting road trip. We'll take you inside our tour of -- get this -- the Oval Office. Well, sort of. It's Instagram's mock Oval Office here in Cleveland. Stay tuned.


PERINO: We had an amazing time on our road trip that we've been telling you about all the way here to Cleveland. And then when we got here, we got a chance to stop by Instagram's awesome setup. It has a mock Oval Office. And it's just like the real thing, only a lot smaller.

We chatted with John Tass (ph) Parker -- He's Instagram's manager of political outreach -- about the role that social media is playing not just at the conventions but the election overall. Check it out.


PERINO: Do you think that 2016 is really the first time you've seen social media drive news content rather than the other way around?

JOHN TASS PARKER, INSTAGRAM POLITICAL OUTREACH MANAGER: One thing that we are seeing is that 2016 is going to be the most visual election to date. In 2015, more photographs were captured on camera phones than in the entire analog era. And so that's changing the way that we communicate with each other and also changing the way that we experience these massive moments like the election and like conventions.

WILLIAMS: So what do we know about elections around the globe? Because you just came from the Australian election.


WILLIAMS: And before that you were in France. So how do you see Instagram changing those elections?

PARKER: Absolutely. So we're seeing a lot of the world leaders around the world using Instagram to be able to connect, especially with young voters, to be able to communicate with them in the same way that they communicate with their friends and with their family.

GUTFELD: So do you ever imagine there will never be another boring candidate? Because a boring candidate will no longer be able to survive in this climate, thanks to you and your evil Instagram. And Facebook. I blame all of you. Plus Twitter.

PARKER: So we see -- we see over 95 million photographs and videos getting posted on Instagram any day. And that's a lot of creativity. And so that's why we built this, to celebrate that kind of creativity and be able to encourage delegates and folks like yourself to come by and enjoy -- enjoy the mini Oval Office and maybe be president for a moment.

GUILFOYLE: Let's talk a little bit about this convention. It's exciting. You're going to be here before you go to the Democratic convention.


GUILFOYLE: And are there any new things you want to be trying out or get anybody out there new adopters to Instagram to get involved with?

PARKER: So one thing that we're seeing on Instagram is that we're seeing an increase of 150 percent in terms of consumption of video on Instagram.

So a lot of people are capturing video. I'm not sure if you've seen Boomerang, which is a great, fun way to, you know, create a short video that plays forward and then plays backwards.

But here at this convention we're also going to have a portrait studio backstage. Just as the speakers come off, they're going to be captured by an incredible photographer, and that's going to be posted straight onto the GOP.

BOLLING: So for those of us that doesn't -- that don't know about mini space, what inspired the mini space? Who created this?

PARKER: This was just we wanted to find a way to be able to help people express themselves. And so we built this to be able to help them just, you know, have a little bit of fun and be able to showcase a little bit of a lighter side of the...

GUTFELD: Wait, wait. But what -- couldn't some people misconstrue this as a microaggression, the fact that you have to make it so small? Somebody like me, I'm deeply offended by this.

PERINO: But the couch is the perfect size for you.

GUILFOYLE: I think you guys were the inspiration for this, and I fully endorse it.

GUTFELD: I'm very short.

BOLLING: We're going to go, but before we go, who's got a bigger Instagram footprint, Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?

PARKER; Donald Trump is the No. 1 political candidate on Instagram.

PERINO: All right. There you have it. But we don't know if that can tell you anything about election day.


PERINO: All right. That was us. It was fun. There's a great picture of us on our Instagram account, if you go to that and see us all sitting around.

Greg, what was up with...

GUTFELD; Hey, all you guys are up on a riser, and they don't have room for me.

GUILFOYLE: Greg's upset because he looks tinier.

GUTFELD: They have me down there, and I'm standing, so where do I put my face while the guy's talking, and I'm like not really that into it at all.

GUILFOYLE: Can you see your face looking off like some blue steel?

GUTFELD: I'm just kind of like, "OK, Instagram." I...

WILLIAMS: You were like the smart guy in chemistry class. You're just like...

GUILFOYLE: Look at the difference in our legs. That's all I'm going to say.



GUILFOYLE: Meaning me and Greg.

PERINO: If you go to "The Five" Instagram account, we have a whole bunch of pictures from our road trip Cleveland. We'll keep doing that, because we have a few more days to go here, and then we're going to be going on to Pittsburgh and then to Philly. So it will never end.


PERINO: And it's fabulous. And Instagram's going to capture it all.

"One More Thing" is up next.


Bolling: Time for "One More Thing." I'm going to go first.

You know, walking around Cleveland, the places, there are a lot of law- enforcement officers walking around from all walks of life. And I thought it would be a very good thing every day this week, for my "One More Thing," to take a couple of pictures and talk to these people a little bit so you get an idea of who they really are. Check that out.

That's Nichelle. She has parents and a little brother. That's Jessie in the middle. He has a wife and a daughter, and Simon has a wife. Next picture please.

I was walking, and I saw Cleveland cops thanking -- just saying hey, thanks, Michigan. So Cleveland was thanking Michigan, because Michigan cops and Austin, Texas, cops are here to help out. That's John, wife and four kids; Adrian, wife and two kids; Sean is there; Rick is there with a wife; Bill; Chris, a wife with two kids; and the last one, Marie on the right, she has a husband and four kids, and her husband is law enforcement.

Here's my point. These are real people, too. And it's got to stop.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: Dana, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: Good for you, Eric. Very nice.

PERINO: I'm next? OK. So we're here at the convention, doing politics, but Senator Rob Portman, who is the Ohio senator -- he's also up for re- election, they go out and they do lots of other things during the convention. And they were out doing Habitat for Humanity today, doing a build. So they're going to help 15 current residents. They do, like, exterior home improvements, other things that people need. And this was just a way to show that there's a lot of ways to serve in public service.

GUTFELD: What happened to him? What happened?

PERINO: Well, he's there speaking. He's not the Pink Panther.


PERINO: That's Senator Rob Portman. So lots of ways to serve. And Habit for Humanity is certainly a great one to highlight.

BOLLING: Great. Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: Time for...


GUTFELD: I hate these...



GUILFOYLE: All right. Giant pandas celebrating their third birthday with cakes made of ice and bamboo.

I don't like pandas. I've said this before.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: They are furry freeloaders. They sit around. All they do is eat. They offer nothing to society. They don't even mate. They're like - - they're like stuffed millennials. That's what they are.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God, who hates pandas?

GUTFELD: I hate pandas!

PERINO: Krauthammer loves pandas, by the way.

GUTFELD: It's Mei Lun and Mei Huan. Happy birthday, you giant panda twins.

BOLLING: OK, Mr. Juan, you're up.

WILLIAMS: So guess who else is here at the Republican National Convention? It's my son, Raffi. And Raffi is a Republican, and so all the Republican officials and the delegates, they're all hugging and kissing him and greeting him. They don't even know me.

So anyway, he may know more about the news than I do. I say that because today his new website, Circa, launched. And while the site covers more than just politics, Raffi's covering the Republican convention and politics for this new digital video news site that reaches out to Republican millennials. Raffi and the members of the Circa team are here. So go check out the site,

BOLLING: All right. Let's get to K.G.

GUILFOYLE: All right. And earlier today I attended the Books and Beers event with Steve Doocy, Ainsley Earhardt and Brian Kilmeade. "FOX & Friends" was hosting this for Pete Hegseth, celebrating Pete's book, "In the Arena," a fantastic book. And as you know, he is a FOX News contributor, regular with the "FOX & Friends" family, a decorated Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran, and an author.

So Pete's book, "In the Arena," is really a vigorous call to arms to reignite American citizenship at home and restore American power abroad, using the timeless truth of Teddy Roosevelt's iconic "man in the arena" speech. Definitely recommend it.

So when you go to buy it, pick up also a copy of Eric Bolling's book "Wake Up, America," No. 5 on The New York Times best-seller list. You got a nice congratulations...

BOLLING: Right here, thank you.

GUILFOYLE: ... from Karl Rove last night.

BOLLING: All right. That was great. We saw Karl last night, as well.

All right. That's it for us. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us, like I just said, from day one from the RNC. "Special Report" right now.

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