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Fox News Sunday

Paul Manafort on Trump's Pence pick; Priebus on security for the Republican National Convention

This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," July 17, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  I’m Chris Wallace, reporting from Cleveland, where the Republican convention is set to get under way in the shadow of chaos overseas.  

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE:  An attempted coup is crushed in Turkey.  

Another deadly attack in France.  

We'll have live reports with the latest from Istanbul and Nice.  

Then --

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Indiana Governor Mike Pence is my first choice.  He is a solid, solid person.  

GOV. MIKE PENCE, R-IND., VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Donald Trump is a good man and he will make a great president of the United States of America.  

WALLACE:  Donald Trump chooses Indiana Governor Mike Pence as his running mate.  We'll talk with Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort about the ticket and Trump's message this week.  

Plus, with security already tight here in Cleveland, will they take more steps after the latest act of terror.  We'll ask Republican Party Chief Reince Priebus.  

And our Sunday panel on how the renewed debate over national security will shape the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton.  

All, right now, on this special edition of "Fox News Sunday."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE:  You are looking live at Quicken Loans Arena, home of the NBA champion Cleveland Cavaliers, and this week, the site of the Republican National Convention.  

Starting tomorrow, this hall will be filled with more than 2,400 delegates as the GOP takes a bold leap nominating Donald Trump for president.  

And hello again from Fox News.  

We're following three major stories today.  The fallout from that failed military coup in Turkey.  New arrests in the terror attack in Nice, France.  And Donald Trump's vice presidential pick, it’s official, Indiana Governor Mike Pence.  

We'll talk with Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort about all this in a moment.  

But, first, a Team Fox coverage on the breaking news overseas.  

We begin with John Huddy in Istanbul whereas the smoke clears, Turkey's civilian government has regained control and is rounding up the military leaders of that attempted coup -- John.  

JOHN HUDDY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, Chris, that's right.  The purge continues and there's been a lot of support for Turkish President Recep Erdogan.  

I don’t know if you can see behind me, the Bosphorus Bridge, where Turkish flags are draped from the bridge.  You could maybe see one through the minarets there.  Again, a show of support for the country and Turkey's president after the failed coup attempt.  

In fact, last night, Chris, thousands of his supporters once again hit the streets here in Istanbul, in Taksim Square, also rallies in Ankara.  We saw some of the celebration at our location here lasting well into the early morning hours.  

As we know, the chaos started Friday night when Turkish tanks rolled into Istanbul and Ankara, and explosions and gunfire could be heard throughout the night.  The presidential palace and parliament came under fire as well.  At least 200 people in all were killed during the violence.  Thousands have since been arrested.  The number is at least 6,000 people.  And that includes high-ranking military, police, and judicial officials as well.  

Both Turkey's prime minister and President Erdogan have accused all of them to being loyal to a U.S.-based Muslim cleric named Fethullah Gulen, an Erdogan foe, once an ally of Erdogan, who’s been living in exile in Pennsylvania.  Well, Gulen denied any involvement in the attempted coup, but Erdogan nonetheless is demanding that the U.S. extradite Gulen back to Turkey.

And at a funeral today in fact here in Istanbul, President Erdogan vowed to clear all institutions of the virus of Fethullah Gulen supporters.  

Now, there's been continued power struggle as we know between Turkey's secular political establishment and Erdogan, who is a political Islamist who’s become increasingly more authoritarian.  This is a concern for U.S. officials.  Turkey as we know is an ally of the United States and a member of NATO, also involved in the fight against ISIS.  

So, as Turkey purges its government and military of coup supporters, Chris, the question now is whether or not this will embolden Erdogan or lead to maybe some kind of political change, policy change here in Turkey or whether, Chris, it will lead to more political instability and chaos.  

Chris, back to you.

WALLACE:  John Huddy, reporting from Istanbul -- John, thanks for that.  

Now, the terror attack in France.  Let's bring in Fox News senior foreign affairs correspondent Amy Kellogg live in Nice with the latest on the investigation -- Amy.  

AMY KELLOGG, FOX NEWS SENIOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT:  Hi, Chris.

Police this morning say that they picked up two more contacts of the man who carried out Thursday's terrorist attack here.  According to French media reports, they feel quite confident, Chris, that they have in detention the person who supplied the attacker with his gun.  Right now, as we speak, there are six people in custody for questioning.  

Members of his entourage tell police, though, that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel radicalized very recently and rapidly.  But neighbors and family describe him as a drinker, a womanizer and a man who didn't attend mosques.  He apparently took lessons in salsa dancing and at the same time was prone to acts of domestic violence.  

He was in the midst of a divorce and had three children under the age of 6.  He had been treated for depression.  So, the question becomes, was he a strict adherent of the Islamic State, which claimed responsibility for this act of mass murder, was he someone who just snapped in the most violent way?

The only details so far of his alleged radicalization are the fact that he recently stopped drinking and began to grow a beard.  He did reportedly empty out his bank accounts and sell his personal effects before the attack.  

This as the grief, shock and sadness continue to permeate this otherwise festive city.  Throughout the weekend, people have continued to search for loved ones.  This man only yesterday discovered his 4-year-old son was dead.  His wife was also killed.  And it goes on, Chris.  

Now, the interior minister of France said that this sort of attack by someone who was off the radar screens of the intelligence services, the anti-terrorist services, who hadn't gone off somewhere to train, who hadn't built an explosive device nor acquired a veritable arsenal of weapons represents a new challenge for law enforcement here.  And finally, that interior minister calling on the population for volunteers to join the reserves to protect this country which, Chris, very sadly is bracing for more trouble -- Chris.

WALLACE:  Amy Kellogg reporting from Nice -- Amy, thanks for that.  

Joining me now here at the convention site in Cleveland is Donald Trump's campaign chair Paul Manafort.  

And, Paul, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."

PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER:  Good to see you, Chris.  

WALLACE:  With all the chaos that we've just been talking about around the world, why should voters trust Donald Trump to be commander-in-chief, someone who's had no experience dealing with any of this, as opposed to Hillary Clinton?  

MANAFORT:  All the chaos is exactly the reason why voters should trust Donald Trump.  The world today is the mess because of the failure of U.S. leadership, leadership that Obama and Clinton as secretary of state put in place when they took office in 2009.  

Donald Trump is not just a businessman.  He's a person who understands the issues.  He'll have a team around him in Washington that understands the problems. And as he says on the campaign trail, the mess has been created by the people in Washington. They're the ones that got to be removed from power.  

WALLACE:  But even among Trump supporters, there is a question about temperament, a question of steadiness.  I want to talk to you about events this week because a top Republican official tells me that as late as Thursday night, after it was supposedly official, that Trump was still talking about could he get out of picking Mike Pence as his running mate.  

And the question becomes, if he had that much difficulty making his first presidential type decision, is he fit to be commander in chief?  

MANAFORT:  Well, I mean, I’m the one who personally was talking to Donald Trump between the time he was doing events in California and the time he got on a plane.  There was never any doubt on Thursday night.  What we were talking about Thursday night was because of the tragedy in the world, postponing his announcement scheduled for Friday morning.  

He made his decision.  He called Governor Pence on Wednesday.  Governor Pence was in New York.  He wasn't there to shop.  He was there to be announced.  

And so, as far as Trump was concerned, the details are what we were talking about, not the decision.  

WALLACE:  But again, because this has been widely reported and I’ve had a top Republican official -- let me just get my question out, who say that Thursday night, after Pence was already on scene in New York, that he's still saying, well, he's boring, do we really have to go ahead with this?

MANAFORT:  Well, first of all, he doesn't think he's boring.  Secondly, I don't know who your top official is, but I’m a top Trump official and I’m the official he was talking to.  So, I know what is going through his mind and I know that the details that we were talking about on Thursday night were moving the announcement and also his concern with what was going on in the world. He was emotionally responding to another tragedy because of failed U.S. leadership.  

WALLACE:  All right.  Here is what Mr. Trump said yesterday in his first joint appearance with Mike Pence.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  One of the big reasons that I chose Mike -- and one of the reasons is party unity.  I have to be honest.  So many people have said party unity, because I’m an outsider.  I want to be an outsider.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  Is that what the Pence selection is about, unifying the Republican base?  

MANAFORT:  It's one of the reasons, but that's not the primary reason.  The primary reason, he’s -- when Donald Trump announced several months ago that he was going to start his vice presidential selection process, he said there were several criteria that were important.

One, he needed somebody who had experience to be president on day one.  Two, he said he wanted somebody who could help him build a program that could get through Congress and become law within the first 100 days.  And three, he said he wanted somebody who was part of the system because he wasn't.  

But that in no means is to imply that he thinks the outsider status is wrong.  It's precisely because he's an outsider that he thinks he compliments the team.  But at the same time, it's not going to change his style.  

His temperament -- he's upset.  He's concerned as Americans are concerned that the country is a mess, the world is a mess.  He leads it to the failed leadership of Obama and Clinton.  

And Pence to him brings somebody has a proven record as a governor.  I mean, this is a man who has done the kinds of things against the system that Donald Trump says he's going to do in Washington.  He lower taxes.  He lowered unemployment.  He stabilized the economic situation, creating over 150,000 jobs in Indiana.  

And at the same time, he was able to maintain a $2 billion reserve and expand education and expand infrastructure development, things like that.  It's exactly the kind of leadership that Donald Trump says he's going to bring to Washington.  

So, Governor Pence compliments Donald Trump.  He doesn’t (ph).

WALLACE:  But, Paul, let's look at Pence's record on some other issues.  I want them to put up on the screen.

As governor, he signed a bill that would ban a woman from getting an abortion because her fetus has genetic abnormalities.  A federal judge struck that down.  

He signed a religious freedom bill allowing people to refuse to serve gays, a law he had to revise.  

When he was in Congress, he tried to cut off all funding for Planned Parenthood. He opposed federal funding for AIDS treatment.  

Question, what should the moderate Republican woman who lives in the socially, socially moderate or even liberal, what should he make of Mike Pence?  

MANAFORT:  Well, that she should make of Pence, he's a man of principle and that he is somebody who believes in the right to life and he believes in the system of government and using the Constitution to defend the rights of all people.  

WALLACE:  But on a lot of those issues, she's going to be opposed to where he stands on abortion, on gay rights, on treatment of AIDS, on cutting off funding.  Even Donald Trump talks about the good parts of Planned Parenthood.  

MANAFORT:  It depends how you define moderate.  We think that the positions of Donald Trump, who’s running -- the man running for president, and Governor Pence are in the mainstream of America.  

We're confident that the combined Trump-Pence ticket is going to be very appealing to moderates, conservatives, and liberals that were supporting Bernie Sanders because of his campaign against the rigged system, the rigged Wall Street system, the rigged political system, the rigged trade system.  That's why we think we're going to have an appeal to those voters who have said, over 20 percent, that they don't like Hillary Clinton, they don't trust Hillary Clinton.  And the messages of change of the Trump campaign are those messages that were popular to Sanders' voters and will be an appeal to us.  

WALLACE:  Then, there are some sharp differences between the two men or some very key issues.  Pence called Trump's proposed ban on foreign Muslims, when he first issued it, quote, "offensive and unconstitutional."  

On trade, Pence supports NAFTA.  He supports the Pacific trade deal.  Trump has called the TPP, the Pacific trade deal, quote, "rape of our country."

Paul, they disagree on two pillars of the Trump campaign.  

MANAFORT:  Frankly, you're exploiting the differences.  They're not that different.  

First of all, on the ban of terrorists, Governor Pence believes as Donald Trump has said repeatedly but you're not reporting that the world is in crisis and there needs to be a suspension of immigration from terrorist countries until we figure out what's going on.  Build a vetting system --

WALLACE:  But he did call it offensive and unconstitutional.  

MANAFORT:  But he -- look, first of all, this team is not going to see eye to eye on everything.  But in the issues you're raising, they're not disagreeing on fundamental things.  They’re actually agreeing.  They both agree, there needs to be a ban in terrorist countries until we figure things out, which is --

WALLACE:  NAFTA, TPP?  

MANAFORT:  Well, again, Donald Trump believes in trade.  He just believes in trade that's good for our country.  He believes in having bilateral agreements so that when a country violates the agreement, you don’t have them still protected by virtue of the other countries in the agreement.  Governor Pence agrees with that position completely.  

WALLACE:  I know.  But on the specific deals that have been made and one is law, NAFTA's been law for 20 years, other one TPP, Pence favors them, Trump opposes them and says he’d kill both of them.

MANAFORT:  No.  Trump -- Pence agrees in fair and free trade.  

WALLACE:  But he agrees on NAFTA --

MANAFORT:  No, he doesn’t.

I mean, what he --  

WALLACE:  But he supports NAFTA.

MANAFORT:  What he said, he said this in the last two days as well.  He said that NAFTA is a situation that needs to be reviewed, just as NAFTA says -- NAFTA has clauses in it that was signed -- this bill was signed into law in the 1990s and there were supposed to be review periods.  They've never been reviewed.

Trump says we need to review them, because the deals aren’t working for us.  It's costing American people jobs and he wants to revise NAFTA, and revise the trade agreement.  Pence agrees with that.  

So, you need to deal with the principles, and the principles, they definitely agree on.  Additionally, the fact that they may disagree on some positions, Trump never said he wanted a yes man as vice president.  He wanted somebody who’s experienced, someone who’s successful, and someone who could help achieve the objectives in Washington.  Governor Pence does that.  

WALLACE:  Since 2000, Mike Pence has sworn off negative campaigning and this weekend "60 Minutes" asked both men about that.  Here it is.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES":  What do you think about your running mate's campaign and the tone and the negativity of it?  

PENCE:  I think this is a good man who's been talking about the issues the American people care about.  

STAHL:  But name calling, lyin’ Ted?  

PENCE  And Donald Trump's candidacy has been about the issues the American people care about.  

TRUMP:  I call her crooked Hillary.  She’s crooked Hillary.  He won’t -- I don’t -- I didn't ask him to do it, but I don't think he should do it because it's different for him.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  Does that mean that Trump will have to be his own attack dog in this campaign?  

MANAFORT:  Look, you're talking about style not substance.  And Governor Pence 100 percent agrees with Donald Trump that the failed leadership of Obama and Clinton needs to be changed.  He 100 percent agrees that the mess in the world today is the cause of Clinton's foreign policy when she was secretary of state.  He 100 percent agrees that we need to put a wall up to protect against illegal immigration --

WALLACE:  I understand that.  But the point is that he's talking about these in issue terms while your guy, Trump is -- well, they’re both of your guys now.  Trump is talking about lying Hillary, crooked Hillary.  

MANAFORT:  Trump --  

WALLACE:  Is Trump going to be the one who has to make that kind of case in very personal terms?  

MANAFORT:  Trump is talking about the same issues as Pence is talking about.  And that’s what’s going to be persecuting together.  Style is difference, but substance is the same.  So, to assume one is different, that's creating something that's not there.  

WALLACE:  That’s kind of what we're in the business to do, Paul.

MANAFORT:  No, we’re in a business of fixing things that are broken.  You're in the business of that.  

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE:  When I meant us, I meant us.  

What is the central message that Trump would like to get out at this convention?  What's he going to be trying to say to the American people over the course of these four night?  

MANAFORT:  That it's time for change.  That Hillary Clinton is the epitome of the establishment.  Her 25 years in the national spotlight are the 25 years America has gone into decline.  

And that it's time for a dramatic change, not just a change where people promise changes and then go to Washington and do nothing.  Trump isn't part of Washington.  What we’re going to be talking about -- he's not part of Washington, he's going to come in, like he's done in business, he's going to make a difference because he's going to bring focus, purpose, and change to Washington.  

WALLACE:  An acceptance speech is a big deal, as you well know.  It's one of the two times that Americans broadly are paying attention to a campaign.  What is he going to try to say?  Beyond the point of change versus status quo, I understand that, what is Trump going to get across in his acceptance speech particularly about him and particularly to people who may have doubts about him?  

MANAFORT:  Well, it's not just Trump, it's the whole convention.  The campaign is focused on the campaign message so far.  The convention is going to focus on the man himself, not just the candidate for president.  

It's going to talk about his life.  It's going to talk about who he is.  It’s going to talk about the kinds of things he's done, not just in business, but the person behind him.  

You're going to see the family.  You’re going to see the creation of what he's done not in business only, but through his philanthropy and through other things.  

So, the acceptance speech will be in the same context.  It will be a more personal message.  But it's also going to carry the indictment against Hillary Clinton and that she is not change and we are.

WALLACE:  Is he going to ad lib or is he going to stick to a script?  

MANAFORT:  He's going to be Donald Trump.  

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE:  So, he's going to ad lib.  

Paul, thank you.  

MANAFORT:  Thank you, Chris.

WALLACE:  Thanks for your time on a very busy week.  And always good to talk to you, sir.

MANAFORT:  OK.  Great.  

WALLACE:  Up next, the chair of the Republican Party, Reince Priebus, who's bracing for an unpredictable week both in and outside the hall as "Fox News Sunday" reports live from the Republican National Convention in downtown Cleveland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE:  A look at the Cuyahoga River here in Cleveland as we continue our coverage from the Republican National Convention.  

Joining us to discuss preparations and the security situation for this week is party chair Reince Priebus.  

And, Mr. Chairman, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE:  Thanks for having me, Chris.  

WALLACE:  We have seen big protests and even violence at a number of Trump rallies this year.  Are you ready for that here in Cleveland this week?  

PRIEBUS:  Well, we're ready for it.  I mean, every convention has its share of problems and protests.  And, obviously, this has been a pretty politically charged environment over the last year.  And so, we've taken extra precautions.  We've got $50 million in federal security, we've got thousands of cops coming in from around the country, we've got Secret Service in full force and we're ready for everything.  

And I can assure you that the city's going to be safe.  And it's going to be a lot of fun and it’s beautiful outside too.  

WALLACE:  Yes, I have to say it is beautiful and it's a great town.  But Security was already very tight for this convention.  Has the terrible ambush of police in Dallas, has the terror attack in nice, has that changed your plans and made your make security even tighter?  

And at this moment, is there is credible security threat against this convention?  

PRIEBUS:  No, I mean, that's not what I’m hearing.  That's not what the police are talking about.  I think people are feeling comfortable right now with what's happening.  We're also in a very good position here on the lake.  

So, when you think about a secured perimeter around where we’re at downtown, on the lake, with the river, but you’re seeing the other side, it lends itself to a good place to lock in and secure.  

WALLACE:  On Friday, the Democrats sent out a full schedule for their convention, who the speakers are going to be, what the themes are going to be, and this doesn't even start until a week from tomorrow.  

PRIEBUS:  Right.

WALLACE:  Your convention starts tomorrow, and there still seem to be some questions up in the air.  

For instance, do you know who the keynote speaker is going to be?  

PRIEBUS:  I do, but I’m not at liberty to reveal it.  The campaign today, I think it's at 4:00 and some of the folks in the convention, are going to brief the press on the schedule.  

WALLACE:  And, well, I mean, why is it seem to disorganized?  

PRIEBUS:  It's not dis --

WALLACE:  Philadelphia and the Dems are already set.  

PRIEBUS:  Right.  It's not disorganized, I think it's just different.  And I think if you look at this hall and how beautiful it is, people weren’t sure about whether we’re going to be ready --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE:  On the fly, if we can take a shot of the hall, it is one of the most spectacular convention halls I’ve ever seen and that stage which looks like the bridge on the USS Starship.  

PRIEBUS:  I mean, it is unbelievable in here.  And that’s what everyone is seeing.  They’re coming into the Q and they expected things to be organized.  And actually, they looked around and said this is an amazing thing.  

So, I can just assure you that Donald Trump and his campaign know how to put on a show.  They're going to do it.  We'll have plenty of politicians.  We’ll have plenty of other things happening.  I think people are going to be pretty impressed.  

The biggest thing is, and you alluded to it earlier, it's Thursday night, it's Donald Trump giving that speech, the balloons coming down and people saying, "I can see him in the White House."  That's what Reagan needed to overcome in 1979.  When he did, the bottom fell out of Jimmy Carter.  I think we're in the same place.  

WALLACE:  We also hear that the party is $6 million in the hole for the financing of this convention and that you and other party officials have made a last-minute appeal to billionaire and casino owner Sheldon Adelson to come up with the money.  Has he?

PRIEBUS:  I haven't.  I will keep it short because I know you like short answers.  Let me just tell you what the story is.  The party, the RNC is in full max.  We raised $14.5 million in hard money, because you may know the convention money was taking away from the parties.  We're at $14.5 million, we’re maxed.  Our piece is in.  The campaign is in.  

The host committee here has soft money they need to raise for other things and they're getting that all together now.  It is not unusual for a few million dollars to come in at the end on the host committee side.  In fact, they’re far ahead at where we were in Tampa and St. Paul.

So, Cleveland's done a great job.  There is no problem.  

WALLACE:  OK.  After Mitt Romney's defeat in 2012, you commissioned what was called a post-mortem to figure out how you prevent that from happening again.  And the bottom line was that you said, and the post-mortem said, you got to be able to reach out to more of America, you got to be able to reach out to women, you got to be able to reach out to young people, you got to be able to reach out to minorities.  

Given his very conservative views on social issues, does Mike Pence help you with that?  

PRIEBUS:  Well, I think he does because he shores up another part of our party.  I mean, I think, you know --

WALLACE:  The social conservative base, but does he help you with that, with the socially moderate or even liberal voters?  

PRIEBUS:  I think Donald Trump and Pence are somewhere in the middle of each other.  I think bringing Pence on board ends up shoring up a piece Donald Trump needed to shore up.  What our autopsy was about is being a full time party, and Hispanic, black, Asian communities, which we’ve done.  

We've got a bigger party than we've ever had.  We've got over 500 full-time staffers and a full-time presence in black and Hispanic communities.  I know Donald Trump's going to be doing a Hispanic engagement tour coming up soon.  He is going to be talking about those issues.  He understands we need to grow the party, party of the open door, tone, rhetoric, spirit, all those things matter when communicating to the American people.  

WALLACE:  You -- I understand the point about reaching out to voters, but I want to show you numbers of recent polls.  Among voters under 35, young people, Clinton leads Trump 41 percent to 34 percent.  Among women, she leads 51 percent to 32 percent.  And among blacks, Clinton leads 87 percent to 3 percent.  Also a big number, a big advantage for her among Hispanics.  

According to your own post-mortem appealing to new voters, you can't win with numbers like that.  

PRIEBUS:  Well, that's true.  But we also have a long way to go and we have to improve those numbers and we’re planning on doing that.  But what we've set up as an infrastructure through the Republican National Committee for that to happen.  And I know that Donald Trump is committed to making that happen.

There's other polls that she Trump at 12 percent with black voters and doing just as well or better than Mitt Romney in Hispanic communities.  We need to do better than Mitt Romney did in Hispanic communities.  But, look, if Trump's at 12 percent in black community, Mitt was at about 4 percent.  If we were only nine --  

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE:  -- in the latest poll.

PRIEBUS:  That one poll.  And I understand.  I’m not calling that.  But there are many other polls that show something different.  

But bottom line: we have to do better.  Donald Trump understands that, willing to reach out and do better, and we set up a system to make that happen.

WALLACE:  With the selection of Mike Pence, the thinking now is that Trump and the party are going to pursue a Rust Belt strategy in this campaign to try to win the White House by taking states like here on the map, Pennsylvania and Michigan and Ohio and Wisconsin.  Is that now the path to 270, to the majority?  

PRIEBUS:  Well, I think it's obviously an important piece of the path.  I mean, Ohio, it starts here in Ohio.  That's why a big reason we're here in Cleveland.  I think he does very well in Pennsylvania, especially western Pennsylvania.  I think it is a big part of the strategy.  

I think Donald Trump and Pence together can be very effective at executing that strategy.  But --

WALLACE:  Let me pick up on that, because three of those four states, Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin, have not voted for a Republican -- look at the map there.  They are solid blue.  They have not voted for a Republican since at least 1988, one of them since '84.  That's six straight elections.  

PRIEBUS:  Well, the button-down approach hasn't worked very well for us in our party.  We've become a great midterm party, but we’ve been a really -- we’ve been not a great presidential party.  

Donald Trump's very different.  I think -- you didn't mention Iowa.  We've got a tie in Iowa right now and he's doing well there.  I think he's going to expand the map in some other places as well --

WALLACE: So that’s the idea, you're going to open up the map --

PRIEBUS: I think so.

WALLACE:  In places that are traditionally Democratic, you think you can flip?

PRIEBUS: I think we can flip a couple places. I think he’s doing very well in Nevada. He's -- he’s actually doing well in -- in Florida. And if you look at Iowa and add in a couple other places, I think he’ll do -- he'll be OK.

WALLACE:  We should just point out that we were just hearing them starting to rehearse the roll call.

PRIEBUS: Right.

WALLACE:  I have to say, you could I asked them to hold off during your appearance here.

PRIEBUS: Well, right, right. You know, I -- I -- hey, guys.

WALLACE:  Just briefly.

PRIEBUS: Right.

WALLACE:  We’ve got less than a minute left. What do you want to get out of this convention?

PRIEBUS: A couple things. One, I -- I want to show the unification process continuing. And, for me, I'm serious, I think Thursday night is a really big deal for our party. Trump delivering that -- that consistent, measured, pointed message. The balloons drop. The band plays. Donald Trump running for president in the White House, that's where we need to be.

WALLACE:  Chairman Priebus, thank you. Thanks for talking with us today.

PRIEBUS: You bet. Thank you, Chris.

WALLACE:  Good luck this week.

PRIEBUS: You bet.

WALLACE:  Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the turmoil and terror overseas and the impact it will have on the presidential election. Much more from the Republican Convention when "Fox News Sunday" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE:  Coming up, security is tightening ahead of the Republican Convention here in Cleveland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Ain’t no power like the power of the people because the power of the people don’t stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  The Sunday panel will discuss that and how worries over national security and terror will shape the race between Trump and Clinton. That’s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: After four years of Clinton, who really led the way and led Obama down a horrible path, because I don't even think he could have made these decisions so badly, she led him right down a horrible path.

HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are watching it become the party of Trump. And that's not just a huge loss for our democracy, it is a threat to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton attacking each other this week on issues of security at home and overseas.

And it's time now for our Sunday group. Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume, Julie Pace, who covers the White House and the campaign for the Associated Press, the anchor of "Special Report," Bret Baier, and USA Today columnist Kirsten Powers.

Well, Brit, during the -- the primaries, I think it's fair to say that Donald Trump's poll numbers generally went up in the immediate aftermath of terror attacks. People saw him and his tough approach as something that they -- appealed to them. Now that he's facing Hillary Clinton and we’re in the general election, do you expect that trend to continue?

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Well, it might, Chris, but I think in this instance, where we -- we appear to live in a world where there is -- any big news is invariably very bad news. That was certainly true of what happened in Nice, and I think long term for what happened in Turkey. People look to the candidates, I think, and it’s -- if you -- if you believe as Donald Trump asserts that these are the fruits of -- of administration policy, you might be more drawn to him.

On the other hand, you know, on the question of stability and experience and, you know, judgment, this might, in the end, end up helping her. And I think it's a toss-up now. I don’t know what the short term goal is going to show, but I think long term it's a very good question which candidate this sort of thing helps.

WALLACE:  After the ambush in Dallas, Donald Trump sounded a new theme and take a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We must maintain law and order at the highest level or we will cease to have a country. One hundred percent, we will cease to have a country. I am the law and order candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  Julie, does the Trump campaign think that that's a winning message for them?

JULIE PACE, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: They absolutely do. They think that voters are feeling a lot of anxiety. They look at things that happened in Nice and other places around the world and strongly believe that that could happen here.

What I think he needs to work on, both at the convention and then going forward, particularly in the fall debates, is some specifics to back that up because right now all it is, is a slogan. We talk -- we hear him talk about strength, about being tough, about doing everything differently than what President Obama is doing, but there's really a stunning lack of detail about what that would actually look like.

WALLACE:  Is there -- is it enough, Julie, for -- for him to say, hey, look, this is the team, Clinton/Obama, that brought you all of this mess, I'm different?

PACE: It might be. I think it depends on how voters look at this election in the fall. Do they look at this as a referendum on the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton being part of that certainly for four years, or do they look at this election as a referendum on Trump and his readiness to be president?

WALLACE:  Bret, I want to go back to a point that I was discussing earlier with -- with Paul Manafort, and that is the question of Trump's temperament. I heard from top Republican officials, I think you heard from other people as well, that -- that Trump was wavering. I know Paul Manafort denies it, flatly denies it, we should point that out. But that Trump was wavering even as late as Thursday night about the pick of -- of Mike Pence. Does that raise questions -- just the -- sort of the confusion of the rollout? Does that raise questions about his fitness to be commander in chief?

BRET BAIER, FOX ANCHOR, "SPECIAL REPORT": Well, I don't -- I don’t think the Trump people are going to -- to focus on any of that. And the people in this hall are not going to focus on the process of how he got to Pence.

WALLACE:  Right.

BAIER: I think it's -- it’s going to be more about, how does Pence help him or not.

But back to your original question about, you know, post foreign policy. Just today, Secretary Kerry said that ISIS is on the run. Remember, one year ago, the democrats were saying bin Laden is dead and GM is alive. And there was a sense that there’s this inclination to automatically go to lone wolves as the solution for every attack. And there's this visceral fear, I think, in these delegates and in Republicans that this administration doesn't get the threat. And when Donald Trump talks about the threat in a way that really identifies with it, I think that they think that's really hitting home.

WALLACE:  But to get to Julie’s point, Bret, is it enough simply to say, they've screwed it up, I won't, or does he need to put some meat on the bones?

BAIER: He needs to put some meat on the bones. Needs to -- to kind of say who's going to be around him, probably, advisers. But even this, just saying that I acknowledge your fears, is something that President Obama has conceded he doesn't do a good job at.

WALLACE:  You know, and let me just say, incidentally folks, if you keep hearing noise in the background, they have decided that now is precisely the right time to check out the sound system as they --

HUME: Always do.

WALLACE:  They -- actually, can I say something. I -- I specifically said, we got to let the RNC know -- and it (INAUDIBLE) Democrats as well -- don’t do it during the hour we're broadcasting this show. As you say, Brit, they always do it.

BAIER: Always.

WALLACE:  Now, Kirsten, let me come to you, and I want to switch to the question of security here in Cleveland because there are obviously, not to be alarmist, but there is obviously a legitimate concern. We've seen violence at Trump rallies all around the country. You got to figure people who oppose him are going to be coming here to Cleveland to have their say and maybe to -- to create some disorder. If that happens, if we see violence in the streets, the political impact of that, how do you think that washes if we see that kind of disorder here?

KIRSTEN POWERS, USA TODAY COLUMNIST: Well, I mean, I guess, of course, it depends on who's causing it. And so, for one thing, I think what makes this a little bit of a toxic mix is there are so many people who are so unhappy with Donald Trump and this is going to be their place to come and make that clear. And if they clash with people -- you know, whether you have Black Lives Matter people coming and clashing with people who are white supremacist, which, unfortunately he -- Trump does have a very, very small group of people who support him are white supremacist, it could be very toxic. And that, I think, could reflect badly on Trump. And it depends on how he responds to it because, frankly, he -- he hasn't, in the past, when some of these white supremacists, for example, have gone after reporters, and has been asked about it, he won't decry them. And so that’s something, if he's not going to condemn that kind of bad behavior on the part of some of his supporters, I think that could -- that could be very bad for him.

WALLACE:  Brit, you and I both remember Chicago in 1968 when there were riots in the street. Not to say that it’s going to get that bad, but it -- but it could get that bad. I think at that time it was seen as hurting the Democrats because there was a sense that -- in the country and now in their convention's center outside the convention hall that they were losing control. What do you think the political impact is if we see disorder here?

HUME: Well, I -- Chicago was different in the sense that the -- the clashes in the streets represented -- or mirrored at least -- the situation in the hall, where you had a really deeply divided Democratic Party whose candidate for president was not chosen by the process we see now, but it was -- you know, despite some -- despite primaries that we had then, it wasn't like it is today where it's almost, you know, done by -- by -- by kind of a national state by state election. So I think that would set it apart.

But if -- if there are clashes in the streets, as Kirsten suggests, and it will depend on who gets blamed for that and who's -- who’s carrying it out. And if -- and -- and this theme, which reminds me very much of 1968, of Donald Trump saying he is now the law and order candidate, of course that -- Richard Nixon exploited that in 1968 to great effect. So, I think, you know, there -- there is that parallel and -- and I don't think, frankly, we've seen this kind of turmoil in politics since 1968.

WALLACE:  All right, panel, we have to take a break here as Arizona is -- gets ready to make its roll call.

BAIER: The great state.

WALLACE:  Three days ahead of time. The great state of Arizona.

When we come back, Donald Trump picks Mike Pence. Was that the best choice?

Plus, what do you want to ask the panel about Trump's running mate. Just go to Facebook or Twitter @foxnewssunday and we may use your question on the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: As Ronald Reagan said, we're tired of being told that a little intellectual elite in a far distant capital can plan our lives better for us than we can plan them for ourselves. Donald Trump gets it and he understands the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE:  Indiana Governor Mike Pence laying out the theme of change versus the status quo in his first official appearance yesterday as Donald Trump's running mate.

And we're back now with the panel as the roll call continues here three days before it actually is going to happen.

And we want to put up new poll, an ABC/Washington Post poll, which shows that on the eve of the convention, Clinton leads Trump 47 to 43. Still a four point lead. But as you can see, that's down from a 12-point lead just a month ago. Clinton down, Trump up a bit, and one wonders at least, in Clinton's falling numbers, whether the FBI non-indictment but political scolding from FBI Director James Comey had a role in that.

Anyway, Brit, the news this week, Mike Pence, what do you think of the pick?

HUME: A sold pick. A safe pick. A reassuring pick as far as the remnant of the Republican Party, which has not rallied to Trump's side. You know that -- you think about Trump's position and you’re trying to add up the numbers for a general election. Mitt Romney got 93 percent of the Republican vote and won the independents and still lost. So the -- sort of the first order of business for Donald Trump will be to -- to fill out the Republican support so he has at least that. It would -- it would be great for him if he could get more. But it’s a -- you know, it's a real task. He doesn't have that. It's reflected by who's here and who's not here in this convention hall. So he picks somebody who is in the Republican mainstream and I think it -- it was a safe but unexciting choice.

WALLACE:  We asked for you questions for the panel and we got a bunch about the choice of Mike Pence as a running mate. Here's one of them, Sooop, I’m going to say that’s how you pronounce that, Sooop tweeted this, "will Pence harm Trump's non-ideological, personality-driven brand?"

Julie, how do you answer Sooop?

PACE: I think it’s a great question because, yes, it was a safe choice in the sense that it would appeal to Republicans who have been skeptical of Trump, but it goes so against type for Trump. He's picking someone who has a long Washington history. Not just a governing history, a Washington history. Someone who is very ideological, who does have a conservative philosophy. And a lot of people who are drawn to Trump are not drawn to him because of ideology. So it is possible that someone like a Newt Gingrich would have been better for the brand. It would have made more sense with what Trump -- with what Trump has been saying and what his temperament and demeanor has bene. But this is all about putting together your general election coalition, and Trump did need someone who could, at the very least, shore up Republicans.

WALLACE:  As we were sitting here in the sky box where we're going to be broadcasting all this week, Bret Baier, who’s going to be anchoring our specials coverage, along with Megyn Kelly, noted something interesting about the floor.

Bret.

BAIER: Yes. You know what’s interesting is you -- each year, each convention, you see where the states are placed. The map of states. And if you look at -- as they're getting ready to call up Alabama, you can see Alabama is up front. These states are organized by how they voted for Donald Trump, not by their importance as being swing states or even the home state. Ohio is jammed in the corner. Remember, John Kasich won Ohio, the governor of Ohio.

WALLACE:  And let me just interrupt to say, I -- in my experience, which goes back a lot of conventions, the home state always has pride of price and is if -- not at the front, very close to the front.

BAIER: So -- but also in the front, Connecticut. I mean that's not exactly your primary state of importance, but, guess what, they overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump. So you look at where the states are placed, that's interesting. It's a little bit telling.

He’s also involved, we're told, with this rollout and the family has played a really strong roll. Ivanka Trump is going to introduce her father on the final night.

WALLACE:  But we do hear this unusual for a presidential candidate that Trump is -- well, he fancies himself as a great producer, that he's very involved in producing every bit of this convention.

BAIER: He is. And I think it’s -- it’s going to be interesting to see how it's received. There's a whole bunch of different speakers. But the message that is going to be really hit home again and again and again is one you heard from Mike Pence yesterday, is that the GOP cannot allow Hillary Clinton to become president of the United States. And that will be the unifying message that -- that they hope brings everybody on board.

WALLACE:  So, Kirsten, let's talk about the Clinton team, head quartered in Brooklyn. What did they make of Mike Pence's selection and is there someone that they were worried, because I suspect it’s not Pence, is there someone that they were worried that Trump might pick?

POWERS: Well, I mean we know the sort of final three were Christie, Gingrich, and Pence, and they were definitely chomping at the bit for it to be Gingrich. They were ready to go. The expectation was if it was a Gingrich or a Christie, you could be sure within 24 to 48 hours they were going to say something they shouldn't have said. It was -- you know, there was a -- they had a long laundry list, obviously, with Gingrich. They could have gone after him in that. They were ready for that.

Pence is a little harder because he's not somebody who's probably going to go off script, but, you know, they will make lemonade from lemons. And in this case, it’s -- they're going to paint him, as we’ve seen already, as somebody who's ideologically out of the mainstream with the average American. That he’s an extremist from their perspective on abortion rights issues. He, of course, signed that law last year that was very controversial, a religious freedom law. If you look at it from his perspective, from the other side, it’s something that was anti-gay. And so they will paint him that way.

And I think that that puts -- it’s great for Trump that he can use him to shore up the base, but it all, per what Julie was saying, he is somebody that maybe some Democrats would have voted for, people who are unhappy with Hillary, but not if they see him as somebody who's going to line up with some of the views of a Mike Pence.

HUME: Chris, let's be clear really about what a vice presidential choice can do. It can help to unite the party and it can help to unify your convention. Once you're past that and out into the general election, there's -- there’s no history that I can even think of where a vice presidential selection has been decisive in any way. Now, we had the disaster, of course, with George McGovern and Thomas Eagleton back in 1972, where Eagleton had to leave the ticket. But barring something like that, the vice president's role is, in a sense, over after the convention once you get out on the trail. It’s the way it works out.

BAIER: This is about Trump. It's all about Trump.

PACE: Right.

HUME: And the other thing is, if Pence were a more luminous figure in terms of his personality, there would be some possibility he might, to some extent, steal the show. But does anybody on earth think that Donald Trump is not going to make this -- the campaign about him? I mean, look, the announcement -- the announcement --

POWERS: But isn’t -- but do you think it’s a little unusual though, Brit -- I mean it is a little unusual to have somebody choose somebody who's so different from them ideologically.

HUME: Well, I’m not --

POWERS: I mean typically candidates are pretty much on the same page.

HUME: Well, I don’t know. I -- well, maybe, but, you know, there’s an awful lot of ticket balancing that's been done by doing very much that. And look at what happened at the announcement. To get back to my -- my previous point. Trump comes out to announce Pence and talks about himself for half an hour, introduces Pence. Pence is talking and Trump leaves. So --

WALLACE:  Well, he does wait until the end of the speech.

HUME: Well, I get that, but you get what I’m saying.

WALLACE:  OK.

HUME: I mean he’s -- he’s -- it’s about him and he wants it to be about him.

And -- and one of the things I think he has to think about going forward is, you know, Hillary Clinton is a pretty target rich environment and she's not popular and not trusted. So do you want to make the campaign about her? Maybe so. But could -- can Trump -- is Trump willing to do that or is -- or is he -- or is he going to make it inevitably -- and -- and just -- because of the way he is, about him.

PACE: I think one of the potential risks in the Pence pick is that Trump has very deftly avoided social issues in this campaign, which, within the Republican Party and obviously within the electorate more broadly can be a real trouble spot. And Pence is so closely aligned with conservatives. Trump is now going to have to answer for some of those positions. What does he say there?

BAIER: But -- but Mike Pence, when he ran, ran a lot like Bob McDonald did in Virginia, which is, he was a social conservative who ran on the economy and ran on economic issues. So I think that, you know, that’s -- that’s one element. The other thing is, the criticism about the introduction, 28 minutes, every network took that. And Donald Trump knew that. And he used it. And they took it all. And it was classic Donald Trump.

WALLACE:  No, I have to say, off camera, Paul Manafort said exactly that, that, you know, we weren’t going to lose the opportunity to -- to make our case, not just introduce Mike Pence in that time. So he took it. But I do have to say, my favorite line was every once in a while he'd say, back to Pence.

PACE: Exactly.

WALLACE:  All right, it's going to be an interesting convention. I think it will be a different convention. And I will say, because I was talking to Paul Manafort off camera about the -- the stage, which is quite dramatic, and he said, there's going to be an interesting change on Thursday night. He, of course, wouldn't tell me what it was, but be prepared that this sort of -- the Starship Enterprise may change as we get to Thursday night.

Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday with all the Democrats in Philadelphia.

Up next, a final word as we continue our coverage from the site of the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE:  Another live look inside the hall here at Quicken Loans Arena.

Now this program note. Stay tuned to this station and Fox News Channel for the latest on the situation in Turkey, the France terror attack and, of course, the Republican Convention.

And next week we'll be reporting from the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, as Hillary Clinton and her running mate, whoever that is, make their case to voters.

That’s it for today. Have a great week. And we’ll see you next "Fox News Sunday."

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