Hume: Racial tensions have grown worse under Obama admin.

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Hume: Racial tensions have grown worse under Obama admin

On 'The Kelly File,' senior political analyst explains how the president sets the tone that seems to imply racism is at the heart of police action

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 12, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, amid palpable anger and intense protests, a manhunt is now underway in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, for potential cop killers. After police discover a group of people planning a deadly attack on law enforcement.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. The initial arrests in what police are calling a plot to kill cops first happened on Saturday.  But with at least one of the would-be killers still on the loose, police decided to go public just a couple of hours ago. They say several men broke into a pawnshop this weekend, stealing the guns to carry out the attack as payback for the shooting of suspect Alton Sterling. And that's not all that now has law enforcement on edge in Louisiana and elsewhere.

Fox News Will Carr is live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for us tonight with more. Will?

WILL CARR, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Megyn. While it's pretty much a block party atmosphere here in front of the Triple S Convenience Store, Alton Sterling was killed seven days ago. Members of local law enforcement say they have discovered this credible threat to shoot police officers all across this area. They say they first discovered this Saturday night when four people broke into a local pawnshop. They said they went in through the roof. They ended up stealing eight handguns.

Now, one of the suspects was caught when he was trying to get away.  According to authorities, he told officers that they stole the guns and were looking for bullets to shoot cops across Baton Rouge in the wake of Alton Sterling's death. Since then, three suspects including a 13-year-old have been arrested, but one man remains at large with at least two stolen guns. We're told the other guns have been recovered.

But since he's still out there, they say he is still a substantial threat to members of law enforcement across this region. It comes at the same time the hacker group anonymous is now calling for a day of action, a day of rage they're calling it after the police shootings. They're now calling for protests across the country this Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are calling on a collective day of rage, a day of action centered around civil disobedience and the right to protest. To police departments across the United States, we are not your enemy.  However, it is in your hands. If you want us to stay that way or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARR: Anonymous has also said that they have harked the virtual infrastructure of the Baton Rouge Police Department. High-ranking officials with the Police Department tell me that is a threat they are taking very seriously tonight -- Megyn.

KELLY: Will Carr, thank you. While police departments in several U.S. cities are dealing with these protests, the country today turned its attention to Dallas, Texas, and a key moment for President Obama. For seven and a half years, our nation's first black president has found himself at the epicenter of the stories involving race and justice in America. At times in part based on his own words, such as suggesting wrongly early on his presidency that police acted stupidly by arresting a prominent Black Harvard professor following a confrontation at that professor's home.

You may recall that resulted in a so-called beer summit between the President, Vice President Biden, Professor Henry Louis Gate and then confronted by police, and Cambridge Police Sergeant James Crowley. Then there was President Obama's decision to insert himself into the controversy surrounding the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin in Florida. "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon." Two years later, the President would inject his administration again into a legal matter, the shooting case involving Michael Brown and Police Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri, sending in his Justice Department and dozens of FBI agents.

Even enlisting the help of the fiery activist Reverend Al Sharpton, who helped perpetuate the story that Michael Brown, who was black, died with his hands up, begging for his life. A story that turned out to be a blatant lie, which Al Sharpton refuses to admit to this day. Then five days ago, five police officers were gunned down by a madman who not only hated cops but specifically said he wanted to target white cops. And at the memorial service for those fallen officers today, President Obama again stepped into the breach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: These men and their families shared a commitment to something larger than themselves. They weren't looking for their names to be up in lights. They'd tell you the pay was decent but wouldn't make you rich. They could have told you about the stress and long shifts, and they'd probably agree with Chief Brown when he said that cops don't expect to hear the words "thank you" very often, especially from those who need them the most. That in this country, we don't have soldiers in the streets or militias setting the rules. Instead, we have public servants, police officers, like the men who were taken away from us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Across social media, those remarks were widely praised. Even some of Mr. Obama's harshest critics found praise for the tone and message of the first ten minutes of his remarks. But then the speech took a turn.  Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime. Those who deny it are dishonoring the struggles that helped us achieve that progress. But we know --

(APPLAUSE)

But, America, we know that bias remains. Although most of us do our best to guard against it and teach our children better. None of us is entirely innocent. No institution is entirely immune. And that includes our police departments.

As a society, we choose to underinvest in decent schools. We allow poverty to fester so that entire neighborhoods offer no prospect for gainful employment. We flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a glock than get his hands on a computer or even a book.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Joining us now, Brit Hume, our Fox News senior political analyst.  There you were on special report last night, Brit, calling out the President for doing exactly this, and you walked us through into the Ferguson case and the Trayvon Martin case. And the question is whether he just did it again.

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I must say, I want to add my voice to those who thought the first part of the President's speech was just terrific. He was eloquent. He struck the right tone. His message was strong and clear. The tribute to the police officers seemed heartfelt and moving, and my thought was this is -- this is Barack Obama at his best, at his most eloquent. This is him putting his oratorical skills, which can be considerable, to the best use. By I, like you, was struck by the turn that he made and especially by that last comment that he made that you showed on the air where he said, you know, that it would be easier for a teenager to get a glock pistol than to get a gun or even a book.

Now, that's nonsense. But it was in furtherance of the agenda that he was talking about, about, you know, spending in the inner cities, about gun control and all the rest of it. And I was frankly disappointed that he chose to go in that direction. You know, the President has a problem in the sense that he -- to him, I think, racism in America has a white face, never a black face. That's why you heard him say in the aftermath of the hideous murders of the policemen in Dallas that we might never be able to untangle the motives of the shooter. The shooter's motives were perfectly clear.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

HUME: He said in his conversations with the police that he wanted to kill police and he wanted to kill white people. I'm not saying the President would deny that that's what he said, but the President's reaction to it suggests that he glosses over these sorts of things the same way, Megyn, that when it comes to the hideous violence against blacks, black-on-black violence in cities like Chicago and Baltimore and others, the President has been virtually silent on that issue though far more black lives are lost in that way than are ever lost to incidents involving police shootings.

KELLY: Uh-hm. I want to talk to you about that. But just on the memorial service today. I mean Brit, we've talked about President Obama's responsibility to sometimes be comforter in chief and how he has at times shirked that, you know, when we've had Americans get beheaded, you know, the President is saying, okay, I'm going off to play golf and making a passing remark, you know, from Martha's Vineyard in a way that feels like wait, whoa.

I don't know if he gets it. I don't know if he understands. You know, the night after Benghazi and our four Americans killed, he had a fund-raiser.  And now here today at the memorial service, like, okay, he's got an anti- gun thing, you know, or at least a push to change the confines or redefine them of the Second Amendment. At the memorial service for the dead cops?

HUME: Yes, that -- look, that's obviously the real question here is the President is entitled to his policy preferences and he's entitled to his views, and he has plenty of opportunity. He's the man with the biggest megaphone in the country and perhaps the world to express them. It's a good question whether it's appropriate to do so in a memorial service like this, and especially after he's already paid splendid tribute to these fallen officers in a way that obviously the audience in the hall greatly appreciated and I think the country appreciated.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

HUME: And, you know, I'm at a little bit of a loss to explain why he decided to turn in the direction he turned. But he did.

KELLY: You know, to what extent do you think he has the power to influence the debate because we've been talking a lot this week about language and whether chants like "what do we want, dead cops, when do we want them, now," influences somebody like this crazed shooter in Dallas or the next potential shooter. And not to put the blame on the President at all, but to what extent do his words, you know, influence the discussion and the tone in the country?

HUME: Well, look at it this way, Megyn. These cases in which Black Lives Matter have become -- has become so prominent, particularly the shooting in Ferguson, the Michael Brown case.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

HUME: That is what gave Black Lives Matter its impetus. The President's sympathy for that movement and some of the beliefs that -- look, for example, at the very name of the group. Black Lives Matter. Now, I heard one journalist the other day or saw one journalist write that people didn't seem to get what that meant really was Black Lives Matter too. Who doubts that? I don't think there are many white people in America at all who don't think that Black Lives Matter. It's just that they believe all other lives matter as well. Nobody -- nobody -- nobody is of the view that black lives that are lost in America don't matter.

The premise, the name of the group, I think, is a fallacy. But the President has supported it, and I can't -- there's no way to know with any certainty to what extent the President's seeming approval of this idea gives legitimacy to the kinds of hideous acts that we've seen, you know, in Dallas and some other places, and now it seems perhaps it might have been attempted in Baton Rouge had it not been stopped. So that is the question.  There's no way to know the answer for sure, but it strikes me that it ought to be very clear to the President and to other leaders in this country that you need to be very careful in what you say and be sure your facts are sound and that you're balanced about it.

KELLY: Hillary Clinton went out and had a meeting with the mother of Michael Brown and, you know, holding Michael Brown up as a victim, which has been proven to be false. He was the aggressor on Officer Darren Wilson. Officer Wilson was the potential victim, and he fought back to save his life. And Hillary Clinton, like Reverend Al, does not seem to have yet come to accept that reality. Brit, good to see you.

HUME: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: So, even before President Obama today called for a larger conversation about race and law enforcement, we tried to get that discussion going on this broadcast last night. Wow, did we put together an amazing group of people from all sides of this issue. It is all anybody wanted to talk to me today. Everybody was talking about last night in our program. And the conversation we had not only took up all of last night's show, it continued well after.

Here's a little of what you did not see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: We had Reverend Jesse Jackson on the show last week and we talked about the murders that we had seen. We'll find out whether they were murders. The killings that we had seen in Louisiana and Minnesota, and he said those cops had racism in their hearts. And I said, how do you know that? We haven't even had an investigation yet. Go ahead, Ron.

RON HOSKO, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF THE FBI: Jesse Jackson, a man of faith, what is his faith when he can see that little evidence and reach that conclusion so quickly? How is he bringing us together?

PASTOR MARK BURNS, PRESIDENT, THE NOW TELEVISION NETWORK: I'm from South Carolina. I know what real racism is. I have six beautiful brown babies. My wonderful, beautiful wife is sitting here right beside me. I know what real racism looks like. It is only until we as a black people first of all stop killing and hurting ourselves, number two, we cannot keep police on trial. Every police is not out to kill black people. Not every police is not out to destroy black people.

(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)

Hold on. If I call on you, you will stop interrupting everybody else.  Go ahead.

LISA DURDEN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's the answer. I have a simple answer. One possible simple solution that a five-year-old can understand -- and some folks are going to hate my guts, but I'm open for it. If every person of color in this country stops running around trying not to be black, we would not be the minority -- we would not be the minority.

(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)

We would not be --

KELLY: What do you mean by that?

DURDEN: We would not be minority because we would be all color. We would not be the minority. We would then have the power to turn our community around.

KELLY: What do you mean by that?

DURDEN: How do we begin to heal when the cops think they're getting murdered and when black men think they're getting murdered and black mothers think their kids are going to get murdered, and they're not talking to each other? They don't trust each other, and they're afraid certainly on one side and starting to be on the other of each other. I'll give that one to you. Go ahead, Richard Fowler.

RICHARD FOWLER, SENIOR FELLOW, NEW LEADERS COUNCIL: And I'll heard a lot of stuff tonight. You hear a lot of stuff about black on black crime.  My mother was a single mother. I went to school. I'm sitting on this set.  But yet still as a black man who lives on the border of Virginia when I drive in Virginia at night time, and when the police pull me over at first, in the 90s I was worried about getting arrested. After Rodney King, I was worried about getting beat. Now I'm worried about being killed.

GAYLE TROTTER, SECOND AMENDMENT ADVOCATE: Here's a novel idea. How about we roll back the strict gun control laws in dangerous neighborhoods and allow the citizens to do more of their own self-defense so that they don't have to rely on the police as much?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: It was unbelievable. You can see that's all new. So in the middle of last night's panel, civil rights activist Joe Hicks touched off a fierce debate when he asked this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE HICKS, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Two black men and a nine-year-old boy walk out of a liquor store, mowed down by a black suspect. Where was Black Lives Matter? Did you guys mobilize in San Bernardino?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Uh-hm. We will put that question to U.S. Senate candidate Darryl Glenn, and NFL Star Benjamin Watson when we come back in moments.

Plus, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg attacks Donald Trump and one of the top law professors in the country is here to explain how he thinks she has damaged the high court. Can you imagine what would happen if this had been done by Clarence Thomas to Hillary Clinton? You couldn't get away from the story.

And then after Attorney General Loretta Lynch refused to answer questions about why the Department of Justice gave Hillary Clinton a pass, our Catherine Herridge decided to take a shot and we'll show you what happened. Stay tuned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you investigate? Will there be consequences?  Does the rule of law still matter in this country?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Well, as you saw moments ago, a deeply emotional and candid conversation about race in America unfolded right here on "The Kelly File" last night. One of our panelists, former civil rights leader Joe Hicks receive aid lot of reaction when he challenged some of the choices made by the Black Lives Matter Movement. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Wait. Let him finish.

HICKS: Last week three people were walking out of a liquor store in San Bernardino. People are familiar with San Bernardino because that's where the massacre took place. Two black men and a nine-year-old boy walked out of a liquor store, mowed down by a black suspect. Where was Black Lives Matter? Did you guys mobilize in San Bernardino?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: The boy Hicks is referring to is Trayvon Williams. On Friday night, heading into fifth grade, this child was with his father at a local store celebrating the fact that his dad had agreed to buy him some candy.  His joy abruptly ended when Trayvon, his father, and another man walked outside of the store and were gunned down.

Joining me now is Colorado Senate candidate Darryl Glenn, who recently shared powerful thoughts on the need to unite America. Darryl, thank you for being here. And they believe that third party was the intended target, that it was gang violence. And this has plagued the black community for many, many years, and we're hearing more and more people ask if Black Lives Matter, why don't we hear more from the movement highlighting that issue?  Your thoughts.

DARRYL GLENN, SENATE CANDIDATE IN COLORADO: Well, thanks for having me on. And that's precisely the point. Unfortunately we have -- it starts from the top. When you have the President almost race baiting and picking and choosing which issues to interact in, and I think it's important. You have to look at the fact that you can either be a part of the problem or part of the solution. This is a perfect opportunity to come together as a community and talk about these issues. But the more that we come together, that's the way out to be able to address these issues.

KELLY: It's so hard. Last night that panel we had was so passionate and fiery and angry. People feel angry on both sides now. They feel under siege.

GLENN: Well, they're talking over one another. You know, what I would challenge them to do is really take a look at what Dallas has done.  They're at the cutting edge when you start thinking about all the positive things that they've done, whether it's the use of force training. But it's so important to be able to get policy leaders, the law enforcement and community leaders together in a room and have a thoughtful discussion about a way forward. That's how we do this.

KELLY: What do you think about President Obama's remarks today?

GLENN: Well, I think I share the same sentiment as a lot of people.  He started off okay, but unfortunately he continues to race bait, and I'll be blunt about that. He continues to insert a policy discussion into a situation where we should be uniting the country. There's a time and a place for a policy discussion. That was not the time and the place, and especially when it's so polarizing the issues that he's raising.

KELLY: It's tough to discuss, and we've seen that firsthand. Darryl, thank you so much.

GLENN: Thank you.

KELLY: Joining us now with more reaction is Ben Watson. He's an NFL player and the author of the book "Under Our Skin." A very timely piece given what we're seeing. I recommend the book to everyone. You know, it seems like it's getting worse and you've talked about how, look, both sides need to understand what the other goes through. You're a successful NFL football player, and you made it, you made it. But you've had experiences as a black man that would make our skin crawl. We would be horrified.

BENJAMIN WATSON, BALTIMORE RAVENS PLAYER: Definitely. I can identify many different experiences that I've had over the course of my life and things that I've witnessed where it seemed that black men, specifically me or someone else may have got the, you know, different treatment than somebody else would in that same situation. I can recall a time even recently when it happened.

KELLY: Yes. But when you drive your car, right?

WATSON: Yes.

KELLY: People don't know that you're an NFL star.

WATSON: Yes.

KELLY: Do you ever worry?

WATSON: Of course.

KELLY: Well, I know. But you know, there's a bias that sometimes has built in in a socio-economic level. And when they see a big superstar, they may not think the same issues apply.

WATSON: Of course.

KELLY: But do you worry, you know, like you heard Richard Fowler say, I worry now I'm going to get shot.

WATSON: I do because we grew up understanding that you comply with the police, that your leash is a little bit shorter. That when you've get pulled over, and like I've done before, I've been pulled over. And I actually worried, you know, if something going to happen to me even though I'm a law abiding citizen. That is a real fear and it's something that we have to come to grips with. That being said, of course you comply with the police when something happens, and I respect the police officers.

But something as you learn as a young black men in this country is that you know what? Life is a little bit different for you. Even though on the surface it seems to be the same. I mean, we've come such a long way, and I always love to talk about how far we've come and just a tribute to the people who have died for those things. But we're still in a place where we still struggle.

KELLY: So, I'm going to ask you this for both sides.

WATSON: Your one message for police officers of America and your one message for young black men of America.

KELLY: Well, the message for both is to understand each other.  Police officers are in a place of authority. They have a job to do. They protect and serve. They put away lawmakers. We need them. My message for everyone not -- is to obey. When a police officer asks you to do something, do it. My message for everybody --

KELLY: But a lot of guys say, I wasn't do anything wrong. He was out of line. He stopped me. He had no right. You know?

WATSON: That's true. That happens sometimes. But, you know, our job as citizens is to obey what police officers say. The police officers job is to respect their citizens that they pull over and the citizens that they're in control of. For everybody, I think that we all, when we look at this situation of race, we need a change of heart, and I said it before. I believe the heart change comes from repenting of your racism, repenting of your bias, repenting of your prejudice and understanding that, you know what, God sees us all the same. And that's the most important thing. We need to get our hearts straight. And after we get the hearts straight, we can treat each other straight. But I can't treat you right if I look at you as inferior and that's what we're seeing a lot of right now.

KELLY: You know how it goes. A lot of these cops and white people see the what do we want, dead cops, when do we want them, now.

WATSON: Yes.

KELLY: They say, forget this.

WATSON: They put their guard up.

KELLY: And then a lot of black people see these cops, the bad ones that we've seen in the bad shootings and say, they're killing us. They're killing us.

(CROSSTALK)

WATSON: Megyn, each of us has a sphere of influence. Each of us has relationships (INAUDIBLE) relationships we need to foster. We're looking at this from such a macro perspective and it's important to look at it that way. But each of us has individual relationships in our churches, in our schools, in our sports teams, in our jobs where we need to have these conversations. We need to be honest and say, you know what? I don't understand why black people are feeling this way and I can't as a black man get so upset at you because you asked an honest question.

You need to listen to what I say as I black man, I feel this way and receive what I'm saying and not get offended. We're coming into it with so many little snippets here, snippets there. You turn on the news and you see these little sound bites that create division amongst us and create sides. We all get on our own side. And my point is that you know what, there's a problem here. Do we want to fix it, or do we not want to fix it?  We need to look at truth. We need to look at justice, and we need to look at righteousness. And let that be our guide going forward.

KELLY: You need to be on TV, not playing football but talking for a living very soon.

WATSON: Well, I care about this country. I care about this country.  I care about what's happening. I care about my kids. I've got five kids, Megyn. I've got five kids, been married 11 years. I care about the world they're going to grow up in. I care about my white friends and my back friends. And I understand that, you know, it's important that we get this thing right. We have serious issues in this country when it comes to race.  But it's not -- all hope is not lost. There is still hope.

KELLY: I think everybody in Baltimore is mad at me right now. Don't tell him he doesn't need to be playing football. I just meant, you know, eventually after you decide to move on.

WATSON: We've been through it. We've been through it.

KELLY: Yes. I'm sure there would be many television executives that would love to scoop you up. Great to see you.

WATSON: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Thanks for being here.

Also tonight, growing complaints after liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg publicly attacks Donald Trump. What is up with that? Seriously, not once, not twice, but three separate times. One of the country's top law professors is here on the fallout.

Plus, a majority of Americans believe Hillary Clinton deserved to be criminally charged for mishandling America's secrets. But today the nation's top law enforcement official refused to even address it. Marc Thiessen and Larry Korb are next on that. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Breaking tonight, new polls showing the American people are not ready to move on from Hillary Clinton's e-mail scandal despite her campaign's insistence that it's old news. In a new ABC News "Washington Post" survey, 56 percent of Americans including six in ten independents and even three in ten Democrats disapprove of the FBI's decision not to recommend charges for the former Secretary of State.

Nine out of ten Republicans say it was a bad move. Then today, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, the superior of FBI director James Comey, refused to answer any, and we do mean any questions on the findings of her department's investigation. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: As attorney general, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on the underlying facts of the investigation. I would have to refer you to director Comey's statements. Again, I would refer you to director Comey. To answer further would require a discussion of the facts which, as I've indicated, I'm not in a position to provide.

REP. BOB GOODLATTE, R-VA., HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Your refusal to answer questions regarding one of the most important investigations of someone who seeks to serve in the highest office in this land is an abdication of your responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge also tried to get some answers directly from the attorney general today. Catherine is with us tonight. Hi, Catherine.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, moments before the hearing we tried to pin down the attorney general on outstanding issues with the Clinton e-mails. As you'll see here, Loretta Lynch was surrounded by aides and security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: Attorney general, good morning. Can you take a question before the hearing? Hillary Clinton gave a sworn declaration to the federal court that was wrong. She is now accused of doing the same thing to Congress. Will you investigate? Will there be consequences? Does the rule of law still matter in this country?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: On the Justice Department website, the statement says the attorney general's job is to advise on the law and its application, but today Lynch avoided all discussion of the applicable statutes in the Clinton case. And then she insisted her Phoenix tarmac meeting with Bill Clinton one week before Hillary Clinton was cleared of criminal charges, was not cause for a special prosecutor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LYNCH: I've had no conversations about Mrs. Clinton's e-mail server at any point in time with either her or former President Clinton.

REP. LAMAR SMITH, R-TEXAS, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Have you had any conversation with either individual about your possibly serving in a Hillary Clinton administration?

LYNCH: No. I've had no conversations with either individual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: But Lynch admitted the Phoenix meeting led her to do something she had never done in her 22 years as a lawyer and prosecutor, accept the FBI's recommendation regardless of the finding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You can't say I'm the attorney general and I decide but yet I'm going to take their recommendations even before they make their recommendations.

LYNCH: I want to make it clear that any conversation that I might have had with the former president would have no impact on the team the review.

JORDAN: I think your actions made it worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: Committee Democrats said the four-hour hearing was a pathetic attempt to keep the e-mail issue alive, Megyn.

KELLY: Catherine Herridge, thank you. Joining us now is Mark Thiessen, resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and Larry Korb, former Assistant Defense Secretary. Good to see you both. So Mark, the American people believe this was the wrong move and Loretta Lynch would not elaborate at all! At all. Your thoughts?

MARK THIESSEN, AMERICN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE RESIDENT FELLOW: It's remarkable. First of all, it's not just the American people who believe by a 21 point margin, they believe that Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted, and think about what that number means. Six in ten Americans believe that Hillary Clinton should be going to the jail house, not the White House. That is a stunning, stunning figure. And including as you pointed out, three in ten Democrats. So, even a significant minority of Democrats agree with that.

KELLY: And yet they might vote for her because her number -- she's still ahead in most of these -- these polls. So, I mean American people thinks that she's a felon, but she might be president.

THIESSEN: It's a common (ph) commentary on the state of the election. Exactly. I mean it's a stunning election we're in. But then you've got Loretta Lynch, who goes up there on Capitol Hill today and basically stands up before Congress and says, "I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might incriminate Hillary Clinton." That was basically her testimony. She took the Fifth for Hillary. I mean -- and what's amazing about that, Megyn, is that she didn't recuse herself.

It would be one thing if she had recused herself. One thing if she had recused and said, oh I'm sorry I can't answer questions that took myself out of it. She refused to recuse herself. She made the decision. Comey made the recommendation. Loretta Lynch made the decision. So, you've got 56 percent of Americans who don't agree with that decision and want answers, and she refuses to stand before the American people and explain herself.

KELLY: What do you make of it, Larry? I mean, Director Comey did take questions from Congress and did hold a presser (ph), but his boss, no.

LARRY KORB, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Well, I think Director Comey was inappropriate to hold that press conference before he came out with the decision. If you go back and you take a look when Patrick Fitzgerald decided to indict Scooter Libby for obstruction of justice and perjury, he was asked well, what about all the other people who might have leaked. No.

The job of the FBI and the Justice Department is to conduct an investigation and then if they want to indict, send it to a grand jury. If they don't, they're not supposed to be saying anything. That's the problem that we have here.

KELLY: But they would have just gotten killed if they had done that in a case of this magnitude, in this, you know, this much under scrutiny, would they not?

KORB: No. He's got a 10-year appointment, and basically he said I conducted -- you know, the FBI has got to be careful. They charged Thomas Drake, who was an NSA employee with ten counts of mishandling classified information. It went to trial. The judge said, "You had no case. Why did you even bring this?" So, I think that's the key thing.

KELLY: But the thing is -- but, Mark, like as Catherine points out, Loretta Lynch's job is to advise on the law, and she wouldn't even get up there and speak to the legal issues. This was her -- her call on the law, and she wouldn't elaborate.

THIESSEN: No, absolutely. She was asked a point blank question. Is it against the law for someone who has a security clearance to share classified information with someone who does not have a security clearance and is not cleared to have that information? And she said, "I refer you to Director Comey's statement and you know, by the way, I'm incredibly proud of the people, men and women, current people of the Justice Department."

I think she said that like eight times. She wouldn't even answer a basic question on the law. And to be honest, Larry's concept that we're going to have a what, eight-month investigation of the former Secretary of State and a presidential nominee, and he's just going to stand up there, and say, we've decided not to charge her, thank you very much. I mean you have to explain it. People have to understand this. And we still haven't gotten the answers, Larry.

KELL: She has commented on it many, many times. Hillary Clinton has...

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: Wait a second. You know, as Matt Miller, who used to be a Justice Department spokesman pointed out today. If, in fact, let's say they were investigating the Koch brothers or union leaders, then they decided not to charge them but said, you know, in the investigation we found out these people are doing all these horrible things, no. This is the crime for which she was...

KELLY: She was our Secretary of State while she was doing this. There has to be some public accountability.

THIESSEN: The problem is there's too much debate. There were too many open (ph) with the Clintons.

KORB: That's why -- that's why you have an...

THIESSEN: We know too much.

KELLY: Charles Koch doesn't answer to us. She does. All right, guys. I've got to leave it at that.

KORB: That's why we have an Inspector General. They are supposed to do that. That's their job and then they decide whether or not to...

THIESSEN: They're not to refer (ph) it.

KELLY: Okay, great to see you guys.

THIESSEN: Th Koch brothers aren't running for president.

KELLY: No, they're not. They're enjoying life down south. Why shouldn't they? Up next, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, her attack on Donald Trump and whether she damaged the high court. Professor Jonathan Turly is here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: New reaction tonight to a Supreme Court justice issuing opinions. No. Not the kind that follow a judicial decision in a case while the highest court is in session, but to press outlets, three of them. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has shared with the world some very choice words for the presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump, prompting uproar from Democrats and Republicans. Trace Gallagher has the latest. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, interviews with Supreme Court justices are rare enough, but it's even more unusual for a justice to offer scathing political opinions. But when the conversation turn to Donald Trump, Ruth Bader Ginsburg pulled very few punches, calling him a faker, saying, "He has no consistency about him -- says whatever comes into his head at the moment, and has an ego."

Justice Ginsburg also wandered, quoting, "How he has gotten away with not turning over his tax returns?" saying, "The press seems to be very gentle with him." The 83-year-old justice didn't sound as if she's planning to step down anytime soon, but is concerned about the future of the court, saying, it's likely the next president will have a few appointments to make and adding, quoting again, "I can't imagine what this place would be with Donald Trump as our president."

Well, Donald Trump quickly fired back, telling "The New York times," quote, "I think it's highly inappropriate that a United States Supreme Court judge gets involved in a political campaign frankly. I think it's a disgrace to the court, and I think she should apologize to the court." Democratic Senators Dick Durbin, Sheldon Whitehouse and Chris Murphy also spoke out against Ginsburg's statements and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell called her comments totally inappropriate.

Justice Ginsburg also scolded senate Republicans for not moving to hold hearings on Judge Merrick Garland -- that's President Obama's Supreme Court nominee to replace Antonin Scalia who died in February. Ginsburg said she's hoping another Democrat joins the court so she can vote in the majority more often, but she also misses her old conservative friend, Justice Scalia saying, without him, the court is a quote, "paler place." Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining us with more is Jonathan Turley, constitutional law attorney and professor at George Washington University Law School. Great to see you professor. So, what did you make of her comments?

JONATHAN TURLEY, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: Well, they were thoughtless, but more importantly, I think they were facially unethical. Canon Five of the Judicial Code says that judges cannot make statements of this kind in opposition to political candidates. Now, the way these justices get around that is they claim that those rules of ethics only apply to lesser jurists.

This may come as a surprise to most Americans, but the nine justices claim that the rules of ethics cannot be enforced against them, that they look at those rules voluntarily and decide how they will apply to themselves. And as you might imagine, the result is that they often are the judges of their own case and find themselves entirely innocent.

KELLY: Se, this is clearly intentional. She made the remarks repeatedly to three different outlets, going on about how if he wins, it reminds her of something her husband used to say, ""Now it's time for us to move to New Zealand." I mean, it's very clear her opposition to him. And Trump on this issue, you tell me. He's entirely right. She was out of line.

TURLEY: He is right, and what she did is not just wrong ethically. It undermines the integrity of the Supreme Court. It's a very serious blow to that court. The Supreme Court has many flaws, but one of its great tenants (ph) is this impartiality and this separation from politics. And what Justice Ginsburg did was undermine that tradition.

KELLY: What was she doing? Why? I mean, do you think people vote based on what Ruth Bader Ginsburg thinks? Why would she do this?

TURLEY: Well, unfortunately, I think that many of these justices have become enthralled with what I call the age of the celebrity justice. They're increasingly going to audiences. They're enjoying this limelight, and in my view, it's a terrible trend. I prefer the old model where justices spoke entirely through their opinions.

But I think you see this sort of corrosive effect on the judgment of justices in this interview. But many of these justices have committed unethical acts in the past. A majority of them have committed acts that would have been serious matters for lower judges. But they consider themselves beyond the rules of ethics, at least in terms of enforceability.

KELLY: Wow. It's really remarkable. Professor Turley, it's always great to hear your opinion. Thank you for being here.

TURLEY: Thanks Megyn.

KELLY: Well, Senator Bernie Sanders today did something considered unthinkable just a couple of weeks ago. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: After months of battling Hillary Clinton for delegates, today Bernie Sanders joined her in New Hampshire to offer his full support for her candidacy. A far cry from some of what we've seen in recent weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT.: I don't think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your Super PAC.

Hillary Clinton knows that something is fundamentally wrong when the very rich become rich off... I don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq.

Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Joining me now, Nomiki Konst, who's a Bernie Sanders supporter, and Katrina Pierson, who's the Trump campaign national spokesperson. Nomiki, first of all, what's with the endorsement without suspending his campaign? So like, he's still running but he wants us to vote for her?

NOMIKI KONST, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: So that's actually a technical thing and it's a really good question that you ask that. So, I just got back from the platform committee meetings in Orlando and the platform committee members for Bernie Sanders and a delegate, and one of the things that a lot of people don't know is that if he suspends his campaign, he can no longer have the rules committee meetings.

The delegates can't vote in a roll call at the convention, which really is what pushes the Democratic Party the way he wants it to go. And that's what it's been since the beginning. I don't think he knew, I don't think his supporters knew, I don't think anyone knew how big this revolution would grow. And the reality is we had half of the support of that platform meeting, which didn't even exist before.

Really, this platform meetings area a bunch of Democratic Party leaders and hack, that we had a bunch of activists and revolutionaries come in and change the platform. That's what we plan on doing at the convention.

KELLY: Katrina, Nomiki went in and busted up the hacks, and now her candidate is probably going to be Hillary Clinton now but wants to beat your candidate. And you tell me whether his prior statements, Bernie's prior statements about her are going to come back to haunt him or her?

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Oh, absolutely, Megyn. You know, I can tell from my inbox that there are many Bernie Sanders supporters that have had their Ides of March moment. As an activist, I can tell you we've all had them. There were a lot of them who truly thought he was not going to support her for a number of reasons.

Bernie Sanders' entire campaign was running against Hillary Clinton literally. She is the candidate of Wall Street. She is the candidate of war. She is the candidate of creditors when tuitions, college rates went up, she was right there supporting them.

KELLY: That's what Bernie is saying. That's the thing Nomiki. She's not qualified. She lacks judgment. She has a conflict of interest. He told Jake Tapper in taking money for the Clinton Foundation from the salaries. I mean, he sounded like Trump. I mean, he sounded like somebody who opposed her, and now here he is asking us to let him vouch for her.

KONST: I think what people are missing is it's not about Bernie, it's not about Hillary. It's not about Trump. It's not about Joe Stein and the green side or Jerry Johnson. This movement is about the people, the movement of movements that are going to push whoever is in power to be held accountable.

KELLY: The movement didn't work out.

KONST: It has actually. We changed the platform. We're going to change the rules. And let me tell you, these people are not going to hold back. They're going to push Hillary.

KELLY: You know, I mean, not to be mean, but second place is losing.

KONST: So does in politics.

KELLY: Katrina, I don't know. You tell me.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Go ahead Katrina.

PIERSON: Let me agree with Nomiki. Okay, there is a movement taking place in this country. And whether or not you're in your corner or wearing your jersey, there are hundreds of millions of people out there who are tired of those jerseys. But what they do agree with is that Wall Street and politics in this country is corrupt. They don't want any more foreign undeclared wars. They don't want trans-Pacific partnership, with which Hilary Clinton will give us as president.

KELLY: Okay.

PIERSON: And we have to get back to common sense, and Donald Trump is that candidate.

KELLY: Great to see you both. Nicely done. Nice coordination on your colors as well, red and red. A little purple in the middle. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: So, people really love Benjamin Watson. This is his book, "Under Our Skin." You can check it out. It's about -- listen to this, "Appeals to the power and possibility of faith as a step toward healing. We could use a little of that right now. Good night, everybody. I'm Megyn Kelly.

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