This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 8, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight in the 23 hours since this broadcast carried live. What we now know is the deadliest attack on law enforcement since 9/11. We have uncovered new leads on the gunman's ugly motive, his disturbing connections, and how this attack may impact public safety going forward.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. If you tuned into "The Kelly File" last night, you saw a tragic piece of television history in the making as live cameras captured the vicious ambush attack on Dallas police as it happened right here. It started with all of us watching as tens of thousands of Americans in cities across the country took to the streets over recent police-involved shootings involving white police officers and black men. In each of those cities from Dallas to Minneapolis, to New York's Times Square, we saw police officers marching right alongside those protesters and defending the protesters' right to free speech despite some of the angry anti-police sentiments being expressed by some of those activists.
But at 9:57 Eastern, 8:57 Pacific, it became clear that something else was happening in Dallas. As we watched live, we suddenly saw a crowd go from marching to running in panic. We had no idea what was happening. But less than three minutes later, thanks to the brave, brave work of Shawna Jackson, a photographer with Dallas Fox affiliate KDFW, we learned why that crowd was scattering. And as Jackson rounded a corner literally running toward gunfire with her camera, we came to the horrifying realization that we were suddenly looking at live pictures of multiple law enforcement officers wounded or dead. Look, we're looking back in Dallas, Texas.
This is disturbing. This is -- I'm not sure what we're seeing, but it looks from this vantage point like an officer down. We are not sure. We are not sure. This is my speculation as I look at the screen. Stand by on that. I don't know what I'm seeing. And this is the control room trying to tell me whether they have a better vantage point. So I'm sorry for the speculation. The police are working on --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.
KELLY: That's -- I mean we're all seeing this together. This is not clear.
And then we said we will not be showing the pictures of dead bodies on "The Kelly File." Witnesses report hearing as many as 20 gunshots in rapid succession, comparing the initial pandemonium to a, quote, "war zone." And our Fox photographer was not the only one running toward the gunfire. Multiple officers began converging on the fallen despite the fact that they were likely still in the line of fire, and that was only the beginning.
Our local affiliate informed us that police were now dealing with at least one shooter, armed with a rifle. And a short time later, we confirmed the worst. As we watch our local coverage now, the exchange between the reporter on scene and the anchors in the studio, our local affiliate, KDFW is reporting confirmation of two police officers shot. Two police officers shot tonight in Dallas, Texas. Stand by.
And of course we know it was far worse than that. The scenes and the information from the authorities only got more disturbing as the evening progressed. It was initially believed that there were multiple shooters described as snipers, triangulating their targets from elevated positions.
Chaos reigned supreme. Today we learned that it was one man, one shooter, though it is unclear if other co-conspirators helped planned this attack. And it was not just sniper fire. A horrifying video shot by a witness showed the gunman ambushing an officer from behind a pillar.
This is disturbing to watch. Before pumping multiple rounds into him from point blank range. A little after midnight Central Time, we learned police had cornered the gunman in a parking garage and were negotiating with him in between exchanges of gunfire. The shooter, a 25-year-old army veteran who we are not naming, was wearing tactical gear and a bulletproof vest. He told authorities he acted alone, that he was not affiliated with any groups. He said he was upset about Black Lives Matter, about the recent police shootings, and that he wanted to kill white people, especially white law enforcement officers.
With negotiations failing, the suspect was presented with the choice of coming out peacefully or facing the consequences. He refused to give up. Police sent in a robot typically used to defuse bombs. Instead, they used this one to detonate one, killing that suspect. In the end, five law enforcement officials were killed. Seven others were wounded along with two civilians. These are the heartbreaking scenes that have come to define the night as law enforcement officers gathered at Dallas area hospitals earlier this morning, waiting for word on their brothers.
Before forming what's called an honor line and slowly raising their hands to salute the fallen as they were carried out. Look at that image. We've got a lot of new information on what came before this shooting and what happened after.
Mark Fuhrman and Brad Thor are here on what we're learning tonight about the suspect. Before Reverend Jesse Jackson and Sheriff David Clark will discuss what they think is fueling this anger.
But first, "The Kelly File" obtaining cell phone video tonight taken from inside the El Centro College Building near where the gunman launched his attack. And this was filmed from inside the lobby. You will hear the gunshots ring out, and you'll see police in pursuit of the gunman. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back!
(Bleep). (Bleep). (Bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) El Centro College, downtown. (Bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me your hands! Show me your hands!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are good, sir. I'm a security, sir. (Bleep).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Here now is Patrick Cooper, the man who took that video. Patrick, thank you so much for being here. What was your first reaction when you heard the danger come into the building that you were in? Did you realize it was an active shooter situation?
PATRICK COOPER, EYEWITNESS TO DALLAS SHOOTING: At first I didn't know what to think. I thought this was, you know, firecrackers, fireworks going off. And everything just happened all at once. And my emotions were everywhere. I couldn't really think straight. The only thing I knew what to do was to
-- because I didn't know if I was making it out today. I thought I was going to die in that building. And after I started recording and I heard some gunshots, I knew it was real. I knew everything -- reality was sitting in, and I just had to get to safety.
KELLY: Where did the suspect come from?
COOPER: I'm not for sure. I know -- I know from where I was at in the stairwell, it had to be from the main entrance on the -- on the right side of the 711 where the subway is.
KELLY: And did you get to look at him? Did you lay eyes on him?
COOPER: I couldn't get -- I couldn't get a real good image of him. I was trying to record him, but when I did, that's when I heard the gunshots. Then it was just a whole bunch of -- a whole bunch of running. I can see a whole bunch of officers coming in where I was at. First I thought I was the suspect because I was in the -- you know, I was right next to the staircase right where the suspect was running to. So at that time I just hurried up and slammed the door, got in the stall.
A lady was trying to tell me, let's run out. Let's run to safety. I was trying to tell her to keep calm because when we do that, we look like suspects, run out and being caught in the gunfire. So I just stayed where I was at, told her to keep calm, and that was really it. That's all we could do.
KELLY: When you finally left the building, what was the scene? Did you realize people had been killed?
COOPER: I did, but when I left the scene, I could hear some gunfire. I could hear some gunfire on the opposite side of where I was at. So when I came out and I had all these guns in my face and I didn't know what to do but follow directions, you know, I was just listening to what the cop was telling me to do. And, you know, they searched me down, and nothing I could do. I had rifles pointed to my head, you know. All I could do was just cooperate.
KELLY: Right. They didn't know who you were, and you didn't know how you found yourself in that situation. Patrick, thank you for sharing the video with us and your story. We're glad you're well.
COOPER: Thank you.
KELLY: Our next guest is Reverend Jeff Hood. He was one of the organizers of the march and quickly condemned the shootings today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never in our wildest dreams would we have imagined that five police officers would be dead this morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: But critics were quick to point out that we were hearing a very different message from the Reverend just a short time before the shots rang out last night. Here is some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to channel an old preacher that I admire tremendously. Jeremiah Wright. And I'm going to say, goddamn white America. God damn white America. White America is a (bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sick of the bodies of black and brown people being slaughtered in our streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Jeff Hood helped organize the rally in Dallas and was a witness to the police shootings. Thank you for being here tonight.
REV. JEFF HOOD, DALLAS RALLY ORGANIZER: Thank you for inviting me.
KELLY: Do you have regret over those incendiary statements. I am not tying the shooter's behavior to them, but do you have regret over those now in the wake of what happened?
HOOD: Yes, I think obviously if I had to go and do it over again, I think I would have chosen different words. These words, you know, were meant to illustrate some of the anger and the rage that was in that space. And a lot of times when we're in those spaces there's a need to speak to what is being felt in that space. Obviously what I was saying was that there needs to be an end to white-controlled America. There needs to be an end to white dominance in America. That we have to come together as one America. And I hope that now after the shooting, as a day of, you know, turning to love, turning to justice, I pray that we will do that.
KELLY: Do you think you'll change your rhetoric? You know, in those remarks, you referred to the police as the enemy and told people that they need to get a fire under their back sides and do something. And, you know, there's incendiary rhetoric on both sides sometimes. But this kind of thing, in the wake of this slaughter, does that kind of language need to stop?
HOOD: You know, I think it's important that we talk about love and justice now. I mean, you know, and for me, you know, I want to definitely speak truth to power when it's necessary. But, you know, I can't imagine anybody going through this and not examining not just their rhetoric but a lot of their lives. I mean we have got to find a way to get to justice and love.
KELLY: I mean, you understand when you condemn white America, you're talking about those white cops who got killed, who were standing there trying to protect your right to protest. And these cops down in Dallas had nothing to do with those officer-involved shootings that became controversial. And, in fact, they had been tweeting out earlier in the night pictures of themselves with some of the protesters, standing for peace. And so you understand when you condemn the full group like that, how damaging that can be?
HOOD: Sure, and I think, you know, as far as I'm concerned, what I was condemning was the infrastructure of white dominance. And I think that we still have to have a conversation about that here in our country. I don't think there's any question about that. But, you know, obviously, you know, this loss of these five police officers is devastating. You know, I am devastated. I feel like I haven't been able to stop weeping. And, you know, I want to do everything in my power to bring people together in justice and love.
KELLY: Well, I know you were very close to the gunfire and had a major scare of your own, and for that I am sorry. But I appreciate you coming on and taking those tough questions tonight. All the best.
HOOD: Thank you.
KELLY: Oh! You can just feel the tensions right now, can't you? You can just feel it. Well, some folks now, because it's political season, are suggesting that Donald Trump is to blame for Dallas. Others say President Obama is fueling a, quote, "war on cops." Reverend Jesse Jackson and Sheriff David Clark are both with us live, next.
Plus, we went digging and discovered that the shooter has troubling connections to some hate groups. According to many reports, including out of the L.A. Times tonight, Detective Mark Fuhrman and author Brad Thor are next on that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a mobile shooter that had written manifestos on how to shoot and move, shoot and move, and he did that. He did his damage, but we did our damage to him as well. And we believe now that the city is safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we are learning frightening new details about this Dallas gunman and what else he may have been planning after investigators searched his suburban Dallas home today, carrying out bags of evidence including bomb-making materials and a bizarre personal journal.
Rick Leventhal is live in Dallas tonight just down the street from where the gunman ambushed police. Rick?
RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, the suspect had no criminal history. We know that he spent six years in the U.S. Army Reserves and was deployed to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. He was there from November 2013 through July 2014 with the 284th engineer company. No information that he trained as a sniper. In fact, he was a carpentry and masonry expert. But as you mentioned, when police searched his home, they say they found a journal of combat tactics, basically how to shoot and move.
Of course he told the hostage negotiator during a four-hour standoff that he was upset about recent police shootings and wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers. His profile picture on Facebook was him in a dashiki with his fist raise in the air. And on his Facebook page, the shooter identified himself as a black nationalist. He linked pages connecting to the new Black Panther Party, the nation of Islam founder. The African-American defense league. And the Black Riders Liberation Party.
All of these are listed by this Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups. Police did search his home. As you mentioned, they reportedly found more rifles and ammo, ballistic vests, and bomb-making materials in the home. So clearly it appears that this was someone with a militant mind-set who made up his mind last night to go out and kill police officers, and unfortunately he was able to succeed at this goal before he was killed by that police robot -- Megyn.
KELLY: Rick, thank you.
LEVENTHAL: We are also hearing chilling new warnings for police in Louisiana tonight where an African-American man was killed in an altercation with police on Tuesday. The FBI saying multiple groups are calling for revenge now. The agency flagging one social media post reading, quote, "Baton Rouge, purge, purge, starts July 9th at 12:00 a.m. Rule one, must kill every police." Over the last 48 hours, there have been a string of attacks on law enforcement in four different states, including Texas.
Yesterday an African-American man opened fire on cops in Tennessee. Today, gunmen targeted police in Georgia and Missouri in attacked described as ambushes.
Mark Fuhrman is a former LAPD homicide detective and a Fox News contributor. Brad Thor is a former member of the Homeland Security Department's Analytic Red Cell Unit and a New York Times bestselling author. This is just so dark and so disturbing, and feels like it's escalating. Mark, what are your thoughts?
MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: I think it is, Megyn, and I think it fuels its own fire that really is kind of under the radar. It's kind of under journalism and the written word and what is really -- what people are really willing to speak out about. There's an underground that we're going to have to deal with. And, you know, this shooting and all these shootings, we don't understand how they occurred. There's no flags like this suspect. There really wasn't any flags, yet the people that are the closest to him, they see the rage, and they see the anger and the escalation of it, and they know something is going to happen, yet they fail to come forward.
KELLY: Well, speaking of the people who know the shooters, right, because this guy wasn't on the radar for anything like we saw in Orlando. You know, the guy had been investigated by the FBI. Not this guy. Look, this is what the gunman's sister put up just a couple of days ago, the night before. "White people have and will continue to kill us off. I for one think these cops need to get a taste of the life we now fear." It doesn't sound like somebody, Brad, who is prepared to turn in a potentially violent brother.
BRAD THOR, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT, ANALYTIC RED CELL UNIT:
No. And Mark had it absolutely right. And I would say that the fire is more like a fire that happens behind the drywall in your house, and you don't notice it's there until the house is completely going up in flames. And the big problem here is that we are not combating this absolute b.s. garbage out of Black Lives Matter. President Obama has let this go on far too long. The left and the Democrats have basically sat on the sidelines and allowed these people to declare an all-out war on police, and it must stop immediately.
KELLY: Uh-hm. There's been, you know, a big brush. A lot of these folks paint with a very big brush, Mark, and they find a couple of shootings that are deeply problematic. There's no question we've seen that over the past year. And try to push a narrative that all cops are bad, and all cops are out to kill innocent young black men.
FUHRMAN: Well, Megyn, we could have done this for the last five decades, ten decades. You can always find something that doesn't look like justice was served one way or another, where somebody made a mistake, somebody was overzealous, somebody was overaggressive. If you're going to take this micro moment in the history of a city, a county, a state or a country and use that as a movement, you can never combat this. There's always going to be something. It's like having a perfect family. It doesn't exist.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Especially in the days of iPhones, Brad, and social media where, you know, every encounter gets caught on camera. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's happening more. It's getting --
KELLY: -- caught on camera more. But the vast majority of police officers out there want to protect us and want to enforce the law and don't run around shooting innocent people. However, you don't hear that message forcefully brought by all the people in power.
THOR: No, of course not. This ask the vulcanization of the United States of America. This is a very, very dangerous road for us to go down. The police are great people by and large. Every organization's got a couple in there that aren't good. We talk all the time about how the majority of the world's Muslims are good, peaceful people. You know what, that same sort of stuff that the left pushes all the time, which that happens to be true, needs to be applied to our police officers as well. This absolutely cannot go on like this. You're not going to have anybody who wants to be a cop anymore. If we're going to demonize them like this, forget it, who's going to want this job?
KELLY: I want to ask you about that, Mark. Not only the demonization, but now just cops don't make a lot of money. You don't get into policing so you can get rich. And so, they don't make a lot of money. Now they're being disrespected and demonized. And now even more than normal. They always put their lives on the line when they go out to do the job. They've got to worry about getting ambushed, getting shot in the head just because they're standing there protecting Black Lives Matter protesters in this particular case.
FUHRMAN: Megyn, you can -- you can see the way police officers are by looking at the Fire Department. It's a brotherhood. It's the same brotherhood. Yet firemen, they have a different level in the community because they don't have to take any aggressive action on the community. They put out fires. They help people. Well, police help people in a different way. They help people, in fact, thousands of people that they will never see, meet, or make contact with, they help every time they take a violent criminal off the street. But you have to be proactive enough to engage those suspects to get them off the street.
When you demoralize a brotherhood like this, they are not going to just lay down and say, okay, we're going to do nothing. We're just going to lock ourselves up in the car. They're going to continue to do the work because they're cops. They love being cops. You're right, they're not there to make money.
FUHRMAN: They're not making that much money. You could probably make more being a manager at a grocery store.
KELLY: Mm-hmm. It's so hard to see what they go through and then, of course, you see the other side, where there are some bad shootings and you understand the outrage. Guys, great to see you.
THOR: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, the Reverend Jesse Jackson last night described Dallas as a, quote, "terror attack." He's here next on that.
Plus, Sheriff David Clark will join us with what he calls a tale of two shootings as he compares the attack on a black church to the ambush of these Dallas officers. Then why won't the Attorney General take our questions about the attack in Dallas? We'll investigate that when we come back in moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Will you please take some questions? Attorney General? How can you explain this (INAUDIBLE) in police murder?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Breaking tonight, we are hearing new questions for the Department of Justice tonight after five law enforcement officers are shot and killed. And the attorney general, the top law enforcement officer in the country, refuses to take questions at a media briefing earlier today. Chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge was there. She joins us live tonight from Washington. Catherine?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the attorney general Loretta Lynch called for cooperation, not violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: And to all Americans, I ask you, I implore you. Do not let this week precipitate a new normal in this country. I ask you to turn to each other, not against each other as we move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: According to data from The Officer Down Memorial Page, a website that tracks law enforcement killed in the line of duty by non-accidental gunfire, the numbers are sobering. In 2015, 33 officers were killed, down from 42 the previous year. So far this year, there are 26 deaths, including Dallas. That means 2016 is on track to surpass previous years. Today, the nation's top law enforcement officer did not engage with reporters. We were told a statement, no questions. But I tried.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Will you take some questions? Attorney General? What do you believe explains the spike in police murders?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: What happened in Dallas as the crowd spread last night is all the more troubling because it reflects the distrust between the community and the officers charged to protect them. A criminal defense attorney said today police feel under siege after multiple civil rights investigations launched by the Justice Department.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY SLATEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Police officers are worried when they're out there and when they may have to use force or whether or not they're going to be second-guessed. Why didn't she also announce that a civil rights investigation was going to be opened up into the Texas shooting where it appears that people were targeted on the basis of race?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: The Associated Press reports tonight that officers in Tennessee, Georgia, and Missouri have been targeted since the killings in Minnesota and Louisiana. Two officers were wounded. One critically, and tonight there was no comment from the Justice Department, Megyn.
KELLY: Catherine, thank you. Well, it hasn't yet been 24 hours, not even a full day, and already some folks are dividing over who and what is to blame for the anger we saw in Dallas. Joining me now, the Reverend Jesse Jackson of the Rainbow PUSH coalition. Reverend, great to see you tonight. So, let's talk about this because, you know, there's been, you know, rhetoric. You and I talked about some things that you said just the other night, dismissing these cops down in Louisiana as racist.
You called it a lynching, a murder even. And yet we've also seen some bad shootings, and we've seen, as a Black Lives Matter Movement, of which this man was not a part, the shooter n Dallas, chants like, "Pigs in a blanket," "Fry them like bacon," "What do we want? Dead cops." Talk about your thoughts on the rhetoric and the need for responsibility on both sides. Let's try this again. I'm trying to get his audio. I can see you speaking, sir. There we go. Go ahead.
JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION FOUNDER: All the condolences to the families and the Philando Castile family here in St. Paul, Minnesota as well. Secondly, that act of terror last night had nothing to do with this travesty of the civil rights struggle in our country. We strongly condemn in every way possible a planned attack to kill innocent people that happened to have been police. That has no place.
I think there are a number of growing hate groups in our country, but more than hate groups, they have access to military weapons that are stronger than the police can carry. That's what makes them real dangerous.
KELLY: But you know, I guess it's been made evident now that this guy was part of some Black Nationalist group or Black Panther or a bunch of groups according to Rick Leventhal's reporting.
JACKSON: There are a number of white hate groups all over the country, and they're heavily armed.
KELLY: So, what are we going to do? Are we going to -- I mean do you believe we should have a law that denies access to anybody who's in a hate group to weapons?
JACKSON: Well, actually, you have to consider giving -- you have to weigh the relative strength or weakness of these groups. Groups can have open and carry military assault weapons stronger than the police can carry. They can shoot up theaters and churches and shoot down airplanes. How can we fight a war against weapons of mass destruction and make them available to people on the street corners of our country? It's much too dangerous, Megyn.
KELLY: You know, I know that you have called out some of the rhetoric we've heard from Donald Trump and some of his supporters, but are you willing to call out some of the rhetoric we've heard, for example, the man who led our show tonight? He calls himself a reverend. He says, he was out there last night saying, "God damn white America." Forgive me. That's what he was saying. I mean this kind of thing, if you're going to call it out on the one side, you got it call it out on all.
JACKSON: Well, that type language does not inform us. It does not inspire us. It does not help us and so we must be very disciplined in our rhetoric. Even through our pain, we must have a rhetoric flow that lifts us up and not tears us down. I say that five people are dead -- five police are dead in Dallas tonight and seven are wounded. That is a critical situation, but there is a pattern of blacks being killed by police, we cannot get off that agenda. I mean, in some sense, the killing in Baton Rouge...
KELLY: But now there's a pattern of cops being killed too, cops being ambushed.
JACKSON: Well, if you look at the number of -- the balance of it, far more cops are killing people. But people should not be killing people. We need not get into an argument about who killed the most. We should stop the killing. Easy access to high-powered weapons is a danger to American security and it does not make sense to be fighting wars against weapons of mass destruction while you can buy online weapons that can bring down airplanes. It's totally irrational to me in the name of the second amendment.
KELLY: Reverend Jackson, great to see you.
JACKSON: Good to see, you ma'am.
KELLY: Joining us now with more, Sheriff David Clark of the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office. Good to see you Sheriff. So, you know, this is the message that we need to get guns out of the hands of folks like this. But this guy had no record. You know, he was a vet. He was an army vet, and I don't know. The rhetoric's bad, but I don't know that it caused this guy's behavior.
DAVID CLARK, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF: Megyn, I'm sorry, but I'm still trying to make sense out of that babble that was coming out of the mouth of Jesse Jackson. He was talking about weapons that can bring down airliners. He's talking about surface to air missiles. Those aren't on the streets in the United States of America. That was -- that was a pathetic display of what he did.
But look at the situation that we face right now. We have some very irresponsible rhetoric coming from some very powerful people. It is time for this nation to stand up with one voice and to condemn and shun this movement called Black Lives Matter. I would like to see the Southern Poverty Law Center place Black Lives Matter alongside those other hate groups that were mentioned. These Black Nationalist groups, the Black Panther party, the nation of Islam.
It doesn't mean that those organizations will go away just because they're on that list, but what happens is, people start to delegitimize these movements and marginalize them. This movement needs to be marginalized. We have looked at this stuff. We have peeled back the layers. We've looked at the data. We've looked at the research. None of their false narrative about the use of force, about the American police officer can be proved. None of it. Zero. And so, it is time...
KELLY: But why -- how have that helped this, you know, because this guy wasn't part of Black Lives Matter?
CLARK: But Megyn, it is time for -- it is time for -- you said according to the chief down there, Chief WATSON, he was doing this in the name of Black Lives Matter. He said he wanted to kill white people.
KELLY: The language was a little different than that. He did say the latter.
CLARK: Okay, but it is time for the liberal mainstream media -- the liberal mainstream media, "The New York Times" editorial board, the CNN, MSNBC to stop walking on eggshells and giving legitimacy to these rants, to all this false narrative coming out of this Black Lives Matter movement. Once we do that and marginalize this group, then we can go about all the work. I listened to Loretta Lynch today. I couldn't -- that was a great political statement but nothing else.
I don't need to be lectured to her about what we should or shouldn't do after this. I think she should have taken questions. Whenever you have an incident like this, somebody -- somebody -- the chief down there is doing a fabulous job of keeping the public informed. She came out. She intermingled this thing with some, you know, gun control, this, that, and just, you know, took off. That was irresponsible so...
CLARK: ...you know, the rhetoric I don't think is going to go away. We need to delegitimize this Black Lives Matter movement. We've had enough of their nonsense.
KELLY: Sheriff, I appreciate you being here.
CLARK: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: And think about that. Think about the situation where somebody was chanting -- is chanting "God D Black America," you know? How would that be perceived? We are watching here a showdown now between a small group of protesters and police in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Remember this is where one of the incidents took place.
We reported earlier about new FBI warnings that the police could be targeted here. The tensions are running high. This is where a black man was shot and killed by police earlier this week. Plus, Dana Loesch and Eric Guster are here to discuss the almost instant cry for gun control in the wake of the Dallas attack. That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have too many guns. It's been too much violence. And we must act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Again we are watching live pictures tonight out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where a line of police appears to be moving forward on what looks like a highway as some of the protesters appear to be getting a little rowdy. These cops, you can see in their regular uniforms. We saw some with the shields going forward moments earlier.
They want the protesters to get out of the area in which they now stand. And yet we don't see anything. We see police walk forward into this crowd, where we see media, and then we don't see protesters on the other side. However, we're told they're there and they need to clear the area.
Tensions have been running high down there since earlier this week a black man was shot and killed outside of a store by police -- one of the two shootings that have led to protests this week. While we watch the situation in Baton Rouge, I want to bring in Dana Loesch, who is host of "Dana" on the TheBlaze TV and author of the new book, "Flyover Nation" and Attorney Eric Guster.
You know, we've heard it just today, the members of the Congressional Black Caucus came out and called for legislation curbing gun violence. You heard Jesse Jackson say it, Dana. We've heard it every time there's been a shooting in the country. They want to curb the guns. Your thoughts?
DANA LOESCH, THE BLAZE TV DANA SHOW HOST: Now, I think we need to curb some of the rhetoric that we're hearing from some advocates and activists, some lobbyists and some elected officials. That's what we need to curb. You know what, when you hear about, Megyn, when you hear about gun rights and advocacy for gun rights, I'm going to say something.
It's not the NRA that's been using violent rhetoric to cut down police officers and to speak of them and denigrate them publicly the way that has been done by a lot of these activists and dare I say Black Lives Matter activists as well. It hasn't been law abiding gun owners chanting in the streets, "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon" or "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now." We have a lot of our elected officials and I dare say even the President of the United States that has led the direction because where leaders lead, followers follow.
We need to see real leadership. We need to see people minding their tongues and not speaking to division. This has nothing to do with gun rights. This has nothing to do with the second amendment. This has everything to do with people being sick in the heart, sick in the head, and just wanting to do evil for evil's sake.
KELLY: This guy was obviously very disturbed, left behind a manifesto. The police chief down there suggests this guy was not right. I want to get you to respond this, Eric, but hold on because Jonathan Serrie is reporting live for us in Baton Rouge, he's on the scene. He's going to update us on what we'll see. Go ahead, Jonathan.
JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, hi there. Right now we have a tense standoff between police and protesters. Up to this point, all of the protests had been relatively uneventful. They had been peaceful. Very little police presence out at the protests that were going on earlier this week at the convenience store -- the scene of a police-involved shooting in the early morning hours of Tuesday.
But then today the protesters decide to go directly to the police, protesting across the street from the Police Department here -- police headquarters in Baton Rouge, and the police were fine with that as long as they stayed on the curb. But at several times, the protesters decided to walk across Airport Highway, blocking traffic. The police would send in officers, pushing them back onto the curb. But as we go into the evening, the protests have become more and more heated.
The protesters have been yelling taunts at the police. Earlier they were throwing plastic water bottles at police. And then just a few minutes ago, someone threw a glass bottle into the road. And so now you have this, essentially this phalanx of police here facing the crowd, trying to keep them off the highway and the demonstrations continue. Back to you.
KELLY: Jonathan, thank you. We're going to continue to watch this. Eric, you know, the situation -- let's keep the camera up so we can see what's happening -- but Eric, you know, there's a threat against the cops' lives in Louisiana tonight, specific threat calling for them to be executed. This thing is ratcheting up.
ERIC GUSTER: We shouldn't have any threats against cops, and we shouldn't have any threats against President Obama like former Congressman Walsh made on twitter just this morning. Those are the types of things that we simply don't need in our country. Just like Dana said, we're depending on our leaders to make great decisions.
And people like Walsh, who are saying this is going to be a race war, and he's actually stoking those fires -- not even stoking them, Megyn. He's actually throwing gasoline on a campfire. That's what we don't need. But it comes down -- it comes...
KELLY: But you heard some of the rhetoric earlier this week. I just talked about it with Reverend Jackson. He was calling those cops -- he said they're guilty of a lynching and saying they were racist before all the facts were in. That doesn't help either.
GUSTER: But just like we discussed before, we're talking about statistics, and statistics don't lie in reference to African-American...
KELLY: Statistics don't tell you these cops are racist and what's in their heart.
GUSTER: In reference to African-American men being shot at the hands of police officers. And it's just simply a fact, Megyn that you cannot even deny.
KELLY: That's like looking at this black man who shot these cops last night and saying all blacks want to kill white cops.
GUSTER: And I never said that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
KELLY: No, I'm not saying you did, but the generalizations get us into trouble.
LOESCH: Yeah, exactly.
KELLY: Go ahead Dana.
GUSTER: That's why I'm making sure that words are not put into my mouth. I didn't disrupt you.
KELLY: I know, I didn't say you do. Go ahead Dana.
LOESCH: Well, we need to make sure that we're paying attention. "Washington Post" compiled today...
GUSTER: No, no.
KELLY: Give the floor the Dana. Let her finish.
LOESCH: Eric, you're lying. Statistics -- Washington Post compiled data from 2015, Megyn, that showed that whites are actually killed by police and whites and Hispanics suffer more by police homicides than black Americans do. You want to talk about statistics, those are statistics.
GUSTER: You must be reading the daily (inaudible) because that's not true.
KELLY: I recall the data...
LOESCH: I know more about the topic than you do and you're discussing.
KELLY: As I recall the data, it is true that more whites are killed by blacks than...
LOESCH: That is correct.
KELLY: But as a percentage of the population, more blacks are killed.
GUSTER: She mentioned police officers. I thought she mentioned police officers. We're talking police officer killing. African-Americans are two times as likely to be shot by police, and that's a fact.
LOESCH: Actually whites are and whites and Hispanics, but we'll have to disagree on that.
KELLY: Listen, I am hoping that I don't need you to stand by. We had Eric here all last night because we watched such a terrible situation in Dallas, which is Dana's hometown right now by the way. Let's hope things stay in control down there in Baton Rouge and everyone is -- they're passionate but respectful. We'll be right back.
KELLY: In 2014, the city of Ferguson, Missouri erupted in protests after the shooting death of Michael Brown. NFL player Benjamin Watson watched the anger unfold and channels his emotions in a thought provoking Facebook post that tackled issues of race, injustice and faith. Now he's offering words of healing in response to a new wave of divisiveness.
Benjamin Watson is my guest now. He's the author of "Under our Skin." Benjamin, thank you so much for being here, and I know that you wrote about in the book that few people -- white people in particular, have no idea of the fear that black people feel toward the police.
BENJAMIN WATSON, NFL PALYER: Yes. Yes. It's a very real fear, and I think that's why you're seeing such passionate outcry. This is something that has happened over and over again, and as a black man in America, you wonder when are things going to change? And I think that's why you see the protest. That's why you see the yelling and the screaming.
And I think it's important that we are able to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. I may not ever understand -- I won't ever understand what it's like to be white. But you know what, you'll never understand what it's like to be me. But if you let your guard down, can you have some compassion? Can you listen to my story? That is what people want to hear. That's all we want to hear.
But where we are now, we're simply turning away. I'm sitting here listening to the bickering back and forth and the rhetoric of people on your show, and it's really making me upset because no one is listening to each other. And I'm sitting here thinking that we all need a change of heart. And I wrote about it in my book, but that change of heart only comes when we're able to see each other as God sees people and we're able to love each other that way that he does and that only happens through the blood of his son.
KELLY: That's beautifully put. I have so little time since we've had breaking news tonight. I'll give you the last word.
WATSON: I know. And the last word is this, I'm never in favor of violent protests, but we need to turn to loving each other. We need to listen to each other. We need to reach out to each other.
KELLY: Amen. Thank you for being here. Benjamin Watson. We'll be right
KELLY: Among the fallen in Dallas, a newlywed, a father, a veteran. We thank them for their service. We mourn them. Thank you for watching everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Our coverage continues now with Sean Hannity.
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