This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 22, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, a showdown is shaping up on Capitol Hill right now, where Democrats are staging a sit in on the floor of the U.S. House, and Republicans are planning to take it back any moment right now.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. Where we are waiting to see how this confrontation plays out tonight. I'm Megyn Kelly.
So it started earlier today, when House Democrats announced that they were going to halt the business of Congress with the sit-down -- sit-in -- they're sitting. Until they got a gun control vote. Ever since the terror attack in Orlando, a growing course of liberal lawmakers have argued that the murder of 49 people was more about our gun laws than it is about terrorism. Despite the fact that the gunman pledged allegiance to the Islamic state terror group in the middle of the massacre.
Republicans are calling this a stunt. And we're told that they're planning their own stunt. Any minute now, they're going to, quote, "take back the house." In the next half hour or so how, are they going to do that? Because the Democrats have been sitting there, and they're not planning on moving. And the Republicans say, just watch us, and they're predicting, and I quote, "pandemonium," and in another prediction, chaos. So, stay tuned for that, we're going to have that momentarily.
Also breaking tonight. Several big developments in the investigation into that Orlando terror attack. First up, we have an exclusive FOX News report on cell phone evidence from inside the nightclub massacre, and how it's raising the possibility of a possible accomplice again. The possibility of an accomplice on the outside. Second there are tough new questions for Attorney General Loretta Lynch.
Including who wanted to cover up mentions of Islam and Allah in a transcript of the gunman's phone call. Who gave that order? She's dodging tonight. Along with why Miss Lynch is arguing that the terrorists really need a little more love. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Our most effective response to terror and to hatred is compassion to unity, and it's love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining us in moments, Dana Perino, the former White House Press Secretary and co-host of "The Five." And Dr. Sebastian Gorka, he is a Major General Horner, distinguished chair of Military Theory at Marine Corp University.
But we begin with our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge, and her exclusive new reporting on evidence recovered from inside the club. Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, an investigative source said, a lot of people inside the club were using their phones to record what was going on. Even inside the bathroom where Omar Mateen took hostages. The source said the FBI is doing a forensic review of the phones and audio was captured of Mateen where he appears to be having a conversation about the attack, and he was not talking to 911.
We don't know a lot more about what was said by Mateen. But the source said, it was the kind of conversation you would have with someone who was familiar with what was going on. Tonight, a government official close to the investigation would not comment on those claims, but said the FBI is not actively pursuing co-conspirators. But that could change based on the evidence.
Meantime, there are still questions over why the 911 transcripts were edited and references to ISIS and Omar Mateen's pledge of allegiance stripped out. Government officials now admit privately, it went so badly, they had to reverse it, and release the full transcript. This morning I pressed the Attorney General on who was responsible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: Whose idea was it to edit the 911 transcripts?
LYNCH: In the review that was being done in terms of making those available, the goal is of course the greatest transparency possible. The initial thought was, we did not want to provide a further platform for the propaganda of the killer.
HERRIDGE: But my question is, where did the idea originated? Was it yourself, the FBI director or the locals?
LYNCH: I'm not going to go into the details of the process behind it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HERRIDGE: And what we've seen over the last 10 days is this emphasis on Omar Mateen as a lone actor, who was not carrying out the orders of ISIS in Syria and that this massacre was part terrorism and part hate crime -- Megyn.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Catherine, thank you.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
KELLY: Joining us now with more, Dana Perino, and Dr. Sebastian Gorka who's author of "Defeating Jihad: The Winnable War." That is the Dr. Gorka's new book.
Okay, it's good to see you both. So, let's just start with that. You used to be in government.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": Uh-hm.
KELLY: She won't tell us who gave the order. I mean, it's just very suspicious, why don't you just come out and say, I was the one, or who was it? Was it the White House? Is that why she won't tell us who told her to redact those transcripts?
PERINO: First, they won't regardless of who it is. If you are on her team, you would probably be pretty happy with that today, because she didn't answer it. And I think that they would say, well, we admitted that it was a big error.
KELLY: But we want to know who decided, whose call was it, was it a political call made by the White House?
PERINO: The White House has leaked out off the record that they had nothing to do with it, and this happened --
KELLY: I know. And they never changed the Benghazi talking points either? All they changed was one word which later turned out to be a complete and utter lie. It was a lie.
PERINO: Yes. And don't have an excellent track record.
KELLY: You have to pardon the people if they don't believe these representations. And they want to know, because they have believed Dr. Gorka, the people, many of them that the administration is not giving it to us straight when it comes to terror and in particular home grown radicalism?
DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, AUTHOR, "DEFEATING JIHAD": She wasn't going to admit it today. Because they were caught red handed of the highest level, of the cabinet level. This is what we've been trying to deal with now for seven- and-a-half years. The administration has been censoring the reality. They sent, six years ago, the White House sent the then Attorney General and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, they must be censorship (INAUDIBLE) federal government, you must not mention Islam, the word jihad must be removed, that was six years ago.
GORKA: People didn't believe it, what happened yesterday? Smoking gun. At the highest level after the biggest attack since September 11th, the decision was taken to sensor the reality, the actual words of the terrorists, and I think it was the fury, just three hours worth of push back, and they said, oh, dear. It's a little bit too much.
KELLY: They wanted to tell us it was out of sensitivity to the victims. We've had other terror attacks. They've never felt sensitivity to the victims before. When they gave us the facts about the terror attacks other than denying that it was terror in the case of Fort Hood. But I want to ask you, because you know, tonight now there's a question about whether Miss Lynch is in trouble. She's -- some congressmen are asking for her to resign immediately, Dana, including representative Jeff Duncan. Because of her statement that our most effective response to terror is compassion and love. I mean, I get, I get, okay, love is good. But like, I'm thinking the guys who behead little boys aren't -- love may not be the answer.
PERINO: No, they need a strong, swift kick in the, you know what?
GORKA: They need a bullet between the eyes --
PERINO: -- is what they need.
PERINO: I actually think it's actually much more compassionate and it shows a lot more love to innocent people if you were to take ISIS out. That to me would be where you find your compassion. I do think in a way, she was kind of talking about the community in Orlando trying to come together. But she's had a couple bad days communications wise, no doubt.
KELLY: Then you're careful about your language. You don't say our most effective response to terror is compassion, unity and love. That's one of the many we should be doing, right?
Anyway, let me ask you, Doctor, about the possibility of an accomplice, it --
KELLY: Because it's not just this one FBI source.
KELLY: And Catherine's reporting -- she's getting conflicting information. So, we don't have this nailed down. But one of the victims of the attack who was actually on "The Kelly File" earlier this week, said she also heard him talking during the attack while she was lying there bleeding and believed that there was somebody else involved.
GORKA: This is very significant. Because we have the transcripts of what he was saying to his wife. And it's clear the wife wasn't cognizant to what was going on. Because he was asking her, have you heard anything about the Pulse club? Have you heard anything on the news? So, it's not her, it's not her he's talking to. So if this is true, this means that somebody out there who's an accomplice or perhaps even a controller, this is exactly what happened in Mumbai.
KELLY: How big a game changer would that be?
GORKA: Enormous. Because the whole narrative of repressed homosexual identity, and you know, he was bullied as an overrate kid at school, blown out of the window. Then it is a real conspiracy. Like Mumbai. In Mumbai, the attackers, 166 people killed in India, were in constant radio and satellite phone contact with their controllers in Pakistan. If this turns out to be somebody in operational connection. Then this is huge. This means that ISIS can have a large conspiracy of operatives here in America.
PERINO: And don't forget that on Monday, it was FBI Director Comey who was usually a very cautious person, says on Monday, just hours after the attack, there's nothing the FBI would have done differently.
PERINO: So, if you -- as you get a week or ten days after this event, and you have an investigation that is still turning up new evidence. That the FBI said in the hours after the event, there's nothing we would have done differently. They're going to have to go back and eat those words as well.
KELLY: But you tell me because we also have a president who says he is not going to do anything different at all. I mean, he really, there's no change in our plan. None.
PERINO: That's right.
KELLY: And is it like a lame duck thing? Because, you know, we might still get attacked by terrorists between now and November, or next January.
PERINO: I think, so President Obama has said that he would done all that he can to make sure that the next president has what they need in order to --
KELLY: But that's not good enough.
PERINO: Absolutely not good enough. And when they speak, they have several audiences all at once. Our enemies are listening and they think, America is still weak and going into an election, where you see America is divided. They kind of feed off of that. Our allies are thinking, so is America are going to get back into the game and start leading us again? And the military is like, we're ready to go because we want to help solve the problem.
KELLY: You need to understand one thing, Mateen is the 103rd ISIS supporter we have killed or arrested in America in two years. If the government did anything differently, they would have to first admit their strategy has failed.
GORKA: They're not going to do that.
KELLY: There won't be any debate over the refusal to use the term radical Islam, if we were winning.
KELLY: The terminology is relevant because we're not doing so well. Great to see you both.
GORKA: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Back now to the breaking news on Capitol Hill, where we are minutes away now from the Republicans trying to get on with Congressional business. Despite Democrats staging a sit-in to a new limits on gun control laws. Ben Shapiro and Richard Fowler are next on a confrontation that's already getting very ugly.
Plus, Donald Trump today hit Hillary Clinton with what even the never Trumpers are calling his best arguments to date.
Former Education Secretary Bill Bennett is here on that. And Clinton campaign surrogate Neera Tanden are here tonight.
And then an epic fight between the Chicago Public Schools and the Teacher's Union. And we'll speak live with the poor chess coach caught in the middle after he dared to defy the union bosses. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us vote, we came here to do our job, we came here to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rise up, Democrats. Rise up, Americans this cannot stand. We will occupy this floor. We will no longer be denied a right to vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Those are house Democrats earlier today in what has already been an hour's long sit-in to win new limits on guns in the wake of the Orlando terror attack.
And tonight, there is more drama as we get word that Republicans have had enough with what they're calling a political stunt. And they're vowing to take back control of the chamber any moment now.
Here was Speaker Paul Ryan just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: This is nothing more than a publicity stunt. That is point number one. Point number two, is this bill was already defeated in the United States Senate. Number three, we're not going to take away a citizens due process rights. We're not going to take away a citizens constitutional rights without due process, that was already defeated in the Senate. This is not a way to try and bring up legislation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Ben Shapiro, editor-in-chief of the DailyWire.com. And Richard Fowler, nationally syndicated radio talk show host and senior fellow at the new leader's council. So, let me start with you on that, Richard. On Paul Ryan's point which is, this is the -- these measures already failed in the Senate. So what -- you know, was -- did the Democratic senators miss their opportunity.
RICHARD FOWLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think what Democratic senators once again were failed by crazy filibuster rules. I think what the House Democrats are doing by them sitting down in this House, they're saying, at minimum, at least give us what the Senate have, give us a chance to vote on this bill. Even if we lose the vote, which they probably will, give us a chance to vote. And here's why Republicans won't let them vote. Because they know Republicans will have to go on record voting against a bill that will block someone like Omar Mateen from getting an AK-47 or assault rifle.
KELLY: But they always do that. The Republicans always do that. They don't seem cheerful about that --
FOWLER: No. They will never bring it to the floor. They have not brung a gun control bill to the floor since Republicans have had control in the past six years, I would argue.
KELLY: Well, is that true, Ben? Because, you know, maybe he's right, they haven't actually let one come to the floor. But the Republicans don't seem shy about their gun stance.
BEN SHAPIRO, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, DAILYWIRE.COM: I mean, they just brought a bunch of bills to the floor basically in the Senate, so I'm confused about this idea that the Republicans talk about this stuff.
FOWLER: We're talking about the House.
SHAPIRO: Well, I understand that.
KELLY: Let him answer. It's Ben's turn.
SHAPIRO: Richard, Richard, hold on a second. I'm sure that the House Republicans would be willing to push forward for the NRA proposal for a 72 hour waiting period for people who are on the terror watch list. But the Democrats don't get to run the chamber just because they're sitting there on their fat cans unable to get up. I'm sorry but this is not how the process works, it's hilarious to me that when Barack Obama controlled both Chambers of Congress, he didn't bring any of these gun control bills forward.
Now in the minority, they want to run on these issues. So, they're going to sit there and they're going to pretend that they're doing something noble by not getting up. I mean, my working theory is that they actually can't get up, I mean, they're all over the age of 80, apparently.
KELLY: Speaking of the size of their cans, I don't know whether there, you know, their current size is big or not. But Elizabeth Warren just arrived with Dunkin Donuts. (INAUDIBLE)
Right? You know what they say.
Richard, let me ask you, about an interesting dynamic that is happening tonight. Because guess who the ACLU is siding with. The Republicans, the Republicans -- the ACLU does not believe the terror watch list or the no fly list can be the basis for denying someone their Second Amendment Rights. Because they don't have due process rights that are in anyway meaningful.
FOWLER: Listen, I disagree with the ACLU, every now and then organizations get it wrong and I think the ACLU has this wrong. But so does the House Republicans, every time, after Sandy Hook, there was a moment of silence and nothing was done. After Aurora, where their own members were shot and killed by a criminal who shouldn't have had access to a gun, there was another moment of silence.
KELLY: Let me ask you a question about there, Richard.
FOWLER: And there was nothing done. Nothing.
KELLY: What was done with respect to mental health reforms?
FOWLER: That's nothing, Megyn. Here's the thing.
KELLY: Nothing is the answer.
FOWLER: This is what shocks me.
KELLY: Why aren't they having a sit in about that? Why isn't it all about the weapon of choice?
FOWLER: The Democrats will vote for a mental health reform, Bill. A mental health, mental health is part of the background checks.
FOWLER: Republicans will bring it to the floor.
KELLY: I don't hear anybody talking about that in the Senate, Ben.
FOWLER: Ask Republicans to bring it to the floor.
SHAPIRO: Did Democrats just reject it exactly that amendment in the Senate? I'm wondering exactly what Richard is talking about.
KELLY: And even in this particular case, we're talking about terror. I mean, in this particular case where, it's not even in new town, it's a terror situation. That's for Ben. Go ahead.
SHAPIRO: The Democrats are in love with the Fifth Amendment when Hillary's aids have to play with it, they seem adverse to it, when it comes to, you know -- being put on the terror watch list. Probably John Lewis who is leading this whole protest on the floor of the house, he should know better. He's on the no fly list, and he's had trouble getting off the no fly list.
KELLY: He's got stopped 35 --
SHAPIRO: He's got stopped 35 to 40 times trying to get through airports.
KELLY: Right. Think of that, 35 to 40 times, a U.S. congressman. I mean, it's rather irritating to get put on that list, Richard. And they don't give you a heads up, and people don't want it to be used as the basis of depriving them of their ability to get put on an airplane and get a gun.
FOWLER: So, here's a compromise. Let's work on making the terror watch list a no fly list increasing the rules to get on there. And in return, let's make sure that folks who are on that list, don't have the right to buy a gun. This is a -- I mean, this is a simple concept to me. Right? Omar Mateen should not have been able to buy an assault rifle after being investigated by the FBI twice. He killed 50, 49 folks.
KELLY: How about that, Ben?
FOWLER: And there's no answer from the Republicans except a moment of silence. It's ridiculous.
KELLY: I mean, many people in America are wondering how the hell Omar Mateen was given a gun. Has got a license --
SHAPIRO: Well, I mean, the reason Omar Mateen was given a gun is because he was taken off the terror watch list. By the same FBI that now apparently has lost his wife. So, I guess the argument is --
KELLY: The FBI is --
SHAPIRO: -- so incompetent that they took him off the terror watch list and lost his wife. Am I supposed to turn over my gun to them if they put me on the list? That is how this works --
FOWLER: No, just your AK-47 and your assault rifle, Ben.
SHAPIRO: By the way, what's the difference between the AK-47 and AR-15.
FOWLER: This is not Afghanistan, this is not Iraq, this is not Libya, there's no reason for you to have a weapon of war in your garage, or weapons in the Taliban --
SHAPIRO: You don't get to tell me what weapons I do and do not get to hold, Richard Fowler.
KELLY: And when the AR-15, you know what he did, he took out his handgun and he started to shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot some more. And nobody is talking about banning handguns. Because that's just never going to happen in modern day America. So, I don't know what the solution is either, gentleman. But I hope these guys were watching here either, there's been left too, either.
However, we await the pandemonium, because that sounds kind of interesting. Guys, thank you.
FOWLER: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: We're going to keep our eye on the House and the floor and see whether in fact chaos ensues.
Well, one major U.S. city is preparing for new trouble as the judge prepares to deliver the verdict in what could be the most significant case in the trial of the Baltimore six. Those six cops who got charged with everything from murder, to assault in the death of Freddie Gray.
Plus, the campaign words today reached a whole new level as Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton unleashed their most poignant attacks on each other yet. Bill Bennett and Neera Tanden are next on what this means in the race for the White House. Don't go away.
KELLY: Developing tonight, new fallout after the 2016 White House hopefuls unleashed their most stinging jobs yet in the form of dueling speeches today. Hillary Clinton suggesting Donald Trump would bankrupt America and drive us back into a recession. Donald Trump is arguing Hillary Clinton is corrupt and got rich at America's expense. And that is not all. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump and I disagree on a lot of things, and one of them is simple math.
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary Clinton has perfected the politics of personal profit and even theft.
CLINTON: Donald Trump uses poor people around the world to produce his line of suits and ties.
TRUMP: She gets rich, making you poor.
CLINTON: We can't let Donald Trump bankrupt America the way he's bankrupted his casinos.
TRUMP: The Hillary Clinton foreign policy has cost America thousands of lives and trillions and trillions of dollars.
CLINTON: He lashed out on Twitter with outlandish lies and conspiracy theories and he did the same in his speech today.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton may be the most corrupt person ever to seek the presidency of the United States.
CLINTON: Whenever I talk about these family issues, Donald Trump says, I'm playing the woman card.
TRUMP: Her campaign slogan is, I'm with her. You know what my response is to that, I'm with you, the American people.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: In moments we'll be joined by Clinton surrogate Neera Tanden. But we begin tonight with Bill Bennett, former education secretary under President Reagan and the host of "The Bill Bennett Podcast." Bill, great to see you.
BILL BENNETT, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY: Thank you.
KELLY: You have lamented Trump's inability to stay on message over the past month, going after the Hispanic judge in other moments, today, different story?
BENNETT: Yes, he stayed on message like Muhammad Ali in the ring in Manila. He sure stayed on message and those words --
KELLY: Was the thrilla.
BENNETT: Megyn, just slightly correct. Those were hey makers back and forth. But he hit her where she's most vulnerable, which is corruption. People don't thrust her. People think she's a self-peeler. You have to like his speech, which is well delivered, well written, and has a line in it that says, when she was at the State Department, everything went to hell except her bank account.
KELLY: What do you make of the attacks on Benghazi, you know, about how she treated Chris Stevens saying, she was asleep. That he begged her for security. I mean, this is what many Republicans believe, is this an attempt to stir the base or actually win some more into the fold?
BENNETT: Well, I think a lot of people are disturbed about Benghazi, and what's indisputable is that Hillary Clinton said to one of the mothers of the gentlemen slain in Benghazi, that he was slain because of this video that was made.
KELLY: Not just one of the mothers, a few of the families have claimed that, but Hillary has denied it?
BENNETT: That's right, you're exactly right. But they say that she said it, why would they make it up? Look, he was very clear and very forceful, he was on message. She hit back but I think he did a much better job. This is what Trump can do when he decides to stick to the message. And he's had a terrible couple of weeks, let's bear that in mine. And with that terrible couple of weeks, he's what, six points, five points behind in the CNN poll, head in those battleground states, very, very close.
KELLY: He's tightened it.
Since the Orlando terror attack, he's tightened her lead by about three points. I mean, the American people seem to be responding somewhat to Trump's message on terror.
BENNETT: Sure, and look what this administration is saying, that stupid redaction. Now there's word that they lost Mateen's wife, the attorney general saying respond to terrorism with love and compassion? I mean, who are these people? And what about this hero, Mohammed Malik. This Muslim, the kind of guy we pray exists who went to the FBI, and warned them about Mateen.
KELLY: He heard the talk in the mosque and said, this is a bad guy, and went to the FBI and reported him.
KELLY: And then the FBI still said, there's no there there. But wait, I want to ask you, though --
BENNETT: That's right,
KELLY: -- because even though Trump was on message today, and wowed even some of the Never Trumpers, you know, like Erick Erickson were giving him praise. The other folks were saying, but past his prologue, and Trump has shown us who he is for the better part of a year now, and are we supposed to believe that because somebody wrote a great speech for him, a magical transformation has occurred?
BENNETT: No, not that, but I think people do believe that he cares about the country, that he puts the country first, that's what motivated his getting into the race. That first speech he gave, he was worried about the American dream being dead. American people trying to sort out the difference between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, all you hear is that the two least popular people to be their nominees in 30, 40 years or maybe forever.
But what people are sorting out is the difference between a guy of whom people don't approve, and a person whom people don't trust. Fundamentally, they'll trust. It may not approve of false staff, you know, he's a drunk (ph), a letch, he's a coward, he's a liar, but he's not Lady Macbeth, he never is on his worse day. The comparison isn't exact, but I think it bears up under some scrutiny. Look at the comparison, that's what people are teasing out right now.
KELLY: Got it.
BENNETT: And I think if he stays on message with the things that he is well known for caring about, I think he'll get there.
KELLY: And he was hitting all those notes today. Bill, good to see you.
BENNETT: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Joining us now with her take, Neera Tanden, she's the president of the Center for American Progress and a surrogate for the presumptive Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton. Neera, thank you so much for being here on the show so...
NEERA TANDEN, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS PRESIDENT: Nice to be with you.
KELLY: First, just let me ask you to respond at what Bill said. Anything jump out at you as something you want to take on?
TANDEN: Where to begin? Where to begin? You know, I actually thought this speech really failed in some fundamental levels. Hillary launched a speech yesterday where she criticized Trump's policies and noted that he would cause a global economic collapse, not from her words but from the words of conservative economists, 3.5 million jobs lost, according to Mark Zandy. He didn't answer any of those charges. What he did was lie about her personally and of course, I'm sure that does feed some of his base...
KELLY: What did you make of it?
TANDEN: ...but in a general election -- you know, in general election, you know, people in the middle, I don't think it really attracted any of them.
KELLY: What did you make of his take, you know, he said her campaign slogan is, "I'm with her" and my campaign slogan is, "I'm with you." Many people are across both sides of the aisle said, now, that was good, that was effective. I mean, he's dismantled her from saying that one anymore, sending out those t-shirts.
TANDEN: I don't think so, and I think actually -- if you actually look at the speech -- If you look at the speeches Hillary did today and the speech he did today -- and the speech Donald Trump did today, his speech was all about attacking her personally, in the most personal terms. She laid out a speech where she was talking about her plans on infrastructure, on jobs.
KELLY: She's attacked him personally, though. She's called him a fraud and other things.
TENDAN: Sure, in response to what he said, but today, the difference between them is he made this campaign about him and her. And she laid out a vision about the American people, what she will do, her solutions for them. Her sometimes detailed plans about what she'll do for them...
KELLY: Trump talked about that. But Trump talked about China and trade, and hit the Clintons on NAFTA. He talked about his policy on terror.
TANDEN: His most detailed policy is a line in a speech. It's not how he's going to get these things done for people. It's his favorite thing to do. We've all seen it over the last year, is to have a tweet attacking someone. She's laid out much more detailed plans, but really, at the end of the day...
KELLY: I want to ask you this, he was really going after her on corruption and on the e-mails when we heard that, and tonight there was breaking news...
TANDEN: And he lied. He lied a lot about those issues. He lied about to being asleep at night.
KELLY: But I want ask you because there was breaking news tonight to get your response, the State Department staffers -- this is from the Associated Press, wrestled for weeks in December 2010 over serious technical problems with then Secretary Clinton's home e-mail server causing them to temporarily disable the security features that left the server more vulnerable to hackers.
I mean, this is going to -- and we tend -- Pagliano, the guy who setup the private server plead the fifth over and over and over in a deposition. The server is not going away and is being used by Trump as evidence of her secrecy and willingness to flout the rules. Is that not a fair charge?
TANDEN: He's -- yes, it's not a fair charge. I mean, I have to say, when Donald Trump, who is -- he attacked Judge Curiel because of Trump University, a case in which he has basically conned people out of money, attacks other people's integrity, I find a ridiculous charge. And you look at the State Department and what's happened there, Hillary's aides have been happy to comply with the investigation. She's happy to talk to anyone -- FBI -- anyone about this, she's had -- she's undergone -- she's undergone hours, hours, and hours.
KELLY: Well, she also said that this is just a security inquiry, which the Director Comey came out and said, "That's not right."
TANDEN: You know, she stood in front of the House Republicans for 11 hours and has answered every question.
KELLY: I know, but my question is...
TANDEN: So, I have to say, given all of those issues, and I appreciate people are interested in these things, they should be, and she's been asked every question. She's answered every question in front of the House Republicans. We've spent millions of dollars on this issue (ph).
KELLY: But she didn't meet with the State Department Inspector General, and now we have word that, you know, the server was unprotected, and that means our documents, you know, the people's documents were unprotected. I raise it, because Trump raised it today and you know him that he's not going to stop raising it.
TANDEN: Of course he's not, but the question is when you look at his experiences, what has happened was -- what he's doing today, the investigations he's under by the New York Attorney General because of -- not what's happened to e-mails or what's happened to people, but how he has hurt real people, conned them out of money. That's not my word, that's their words, people were struggling, hurting in this economy.
KELLY: Just for the record, the New York AG inquiry is about whether Trump University could be called a university as opposed to a school, that there's a lawsuit about whether he committed fraud.
TANDEN: Yes, he's under a civil lawsuit.
KELLY: Okay, I got to go, we'll leave it at that.
TANDEN: Yes, there's a lawsuit from actual people. Yes, and I just think those issues are important to litigate as well.
KELLY: Neera, great to see you. Thanks for being here.
TANDEN: Great to be with you.
KELLY: So, we're watching the Capitol right now. Doesn't look like chaos, I don't know.
REP. SCOTT PETERS, D-CALIF.: Would I pray for him? Would I pray for my grandson?
KELLY: Well, there we go. So, they're arguing over gun control and how to protect Americans, which both parties want to do, but how is a different matter. Coming up in just a bit, as we continue to watch the U.S. Congress, we are also watching for a verdict in Baltimore in the most important trial of the Baltimore Six, Mark Eiglarsh and Lis Wiehl are here on whether Marilyn Mosby's office could see yet another case against the key cop slip through their fingers, that's next.
KELLY: Well, officials are preparing for the worst in Baltimore tomorrow with just hours to go now until what could be the biggest verdict yet in the case of Freddie Gray. Officer Cesar Goodson, who allegedly took Gray on a "rough ride" according to prosecutors in a police van, is facing the most serious charge of any of the officers involved.
But a last minute change and the big one in the prosecution's strategy has experts wondering whether Goodson will be found guilty of anything or whether the state could see yet another case slip through its fingers. Mike Eiglarsh and Lis Wiehl are here to debate next, but first we got to Trace Gallagher who tells us what happened today in New York, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the prosecution first argued that Officer Cesar Goodson purposely gave Freddie Gray a rough ride to intentionally hurt him knowing that the odds of injury were high because Gray was handcuffed and shackled but wasn't buckled. But after the defense pointed out that none of the city surveillance videos that captured portions of the ride show Officer Goodson driving erratically, and after a fellow arrestee who was in the scene then testified it was a smooth ride, the prosecution backed off the rough ride theory and focused more on officer protocol saying that any reasonable officer would have ensured prisoner safety and gotten medical help for Freddie Gray.
But the defense countered by saying that Gray contributed to his own injuries because he "moved himself from a prone position creating a high degree of risk. The defense went on to argue that Gray was belligerent, combative and resisting arrest. Prosecutors called it passive resistance but the judge reminded the state that resisting arrest is by definition combative.
The medical examiner did testify that she believes Freddie Gray's death was a homicide because his injuries were so severe, but on cross-examination, she admitted not having any direct evidence of what happened inside the van. If convicted, Goodson is facing up to 30 years, but if he's acquitted of second degree murder, experts say it will be extremely difficult to convict the other officers. Remember, this is a bench trial, so the judge will deliver the verdict at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. Baltimore police and the Maryland National Guard say they are ready for any protests, Megyn?
KELLY: We'll have it covered as well, Trace. Thank you. As we watch our -- the U.S. -- the House -- the floor to see what's happening. Nothing yet, we'll take you there if anything does.
Joining me now to debate, Mark Eiglarsh, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor -- Speaktomark.com -- oh, a new website where you can get to know Mark. Let's just leave at that, he's a happily married man, and Lis Wiehl a Fox News legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, good to see you both. So, I mean, it's not looking good for the prosecution's second degree murder case against Officer Goodson, Mark?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It was never looking good. Now they go to rough ride. So, what's their evidence of a rough ride? A busload of nuns who said the guy was driving like Dukes of Hazard? No. A video showing that he merely failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign and then drove a little bit to the left or right.
Megyn, that's my drive to work every day, that's not reckless driving, and you couple that with someone in the van testifying it was a smooth ride? Bye-bye prosecutor on second degree murder.
KELLY: And the prosecution has had to change its theory now. They promised they were going to prove rough ride at the beginning of this case, they haven't done it. And Lis, this judge was mocking them. He looked at them and said, "Are you aware you have to prove intent -- intent on this officer's part? What did you show to prove it?"
LIS WEIHL, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: I would be embarrassed if I were that prosecutor. I would be just climbing out of there just like, don't you know -- judge, can I just leave? Can I have a bathroom break and just get some M&M's and I would never come back. I would just climb out of there.
KELLY: At least the judge -- the judge said -- the judge said to the prosecution, "You're aware that the driver who you've charged with second degree murder, stopped the van to check on him, right?"
KELLY: Stopping to make sure he had died? I mean, obviously he was trying to see if he was okay.
WEIHL: It's embarrassing Megyn -- 101 prosecution, they teach you when you're a baby prosecutor. Instant (ph) prosecutor, you stick to your theory of the case. You know, hello, prosecutor, you have to have the burden of the proof. You're the one that comes in there, you've got to convince whether it's the jury or the judge, you have the burden of proof, not the defense. The defense would just sit there and do nothing.
KELLY: She had no business charging second degree murder in this case Mark. You can argue she had no business bringing any of these charges against these cops.
EIGLARSH: I'm not going to be with you tomorrow night. I got Hamilton tickets, taking the kids tomorrow night. But I'm telling you right now, 100 percent certainty, there's no second degree murder here. The prosecution's theory was, well, you should have been able to see that he had injury. Wait a second, this is not one of those cases where there's a concussion, contusions, broken bones, where it's obvious.
That's not the case. Secondly, there is evidence, not to blame the victim, but he was in a very peaceful condition on his belly, he gets up and he put himself by standing up into a very hazardous situation that I believe ultimately what caused his death.
KELLY: That's reportedly what the other -- what the other prisoner in the van said initially. That he was doing something to himself. He was thrashing around in the back. All right, I want to switch gears because there's another case Lis. There's a news anchor in Pittsburgh named Wendy Bell, she' got 21 Emmys, she's got two Murrow awards and she's been fired after a Facebook post that was construed as racist.
Basically, she's white, there was a mass shooting in a backyard BBQ that left four people injured and six dead including a pregnant woman in a majority black borough, and she suggested you don't have to be a criminal profiler to know who the killers were, they're young black men, likely in their teens, early 20s, multiple siblings, multiple fathers, they've been in the system before, they've been arrested, they know the police. And the station said, "You're gone." Now, she's suing. Why?
WEIHL: She said because she was white. She was sued -- she was fired because she was white. She just put that on her Facebook, really? She was fired over that? Come on, you know it's because she was white. If this was a black anchor talking about black people in the neighborhood, she would not have been fired. And you know that's the truth.
KELLY: So, go ahead Mark.
EIGLARSH: The lawsuit is going nowhere, Megyn.
EIGLARSH: This is an at will state, they can get rid of her for any reason and a good cause would be...
WEIHL: But you know that's not right, Mark. That's not right.
EIGLARSH: That's not the issue.
KELLY: Wait, you can get rid of her for any reason, except an illegal reason. But she's claiming she's the victim of racism.
EIGLARSH: We believe...
EIGLARSH: That's correct.
WEIHL: It's reverse discrimination.
EIGLARSH: Lis, cut me off, you're right, if it's discrimination. But the reality is the station is going to say, those comments were so controversial that she would have reasonably understood that we would lose advertisers. It would be so controversial, and that's good enough.
WEIHL: She wasn't saying anything that was racist though. She was making an observation. She wasn't saying...
KELLY: And she was assuming young black men had done the crime.
EIGLARSH: Lis Weihl -- Lis Weihl, Megyn Kelly, you guys would never write what she wrote.
WEIHL: No, we wouldn't have written it. I would not write that.
EIGLARSH: No response needed.
WEIHL: I would not write that...
EIGLARSH: Done. Done!
WEIHL: ...but I'm not saying she should be fired over that.
KELLY: She's lived in a community her whole life.
EIGLARSH: Well, legally they have the right to do it. I know at some point...
KELLY: She also complimented -- she complimented a young African- American busboy hustling at a restaurant, saying he gave her hope, which I think also was not well received.
EIGLARSH: If that's all she wrote, that's fine. She didn't just write that.
KELLY: Right, but even that got her -- all of it got her in trouble, you know, race issues are...
EIGLARSH: Yeah, you wouldn't write it.
KELLY: It's great to see you both. We'll continue to follow it. Follow Mark, speaktomark.com, except tomorrow when he's busy and he doesn't want to speak to any of us. Up next, you've got to stay tuned for this. A Chicago teacher sides with his students -- with his students over the Union bosses. And now he's worried about keeping his job. This has turned into an epic battle. The school is on his side, the Union is not, the teacher is here next. He's on the side of the students.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Well, a public school teacher in Chicago is at the center of a bitter dispute with the city's Teachers Union. Math teacher, Joseph Ocol says he chose to practice with his chess team over a mandatory day of protests organized by the Chicago's Teachers Union and said he was then expelled from that Union. Here with the story, that teacher, Joseph Ocol. Joseph, thank you so much for being here. So you're coaching the girl's chess team, right, the chess team?
JOSEPH OCOL, PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER: Yes. I coach both boys and girls from second grade through eighth grade.
KELLY: All right. And they're good. The girls are really good. And they want you to strike the Teachers Union because they have a lot of things that they're pushing for. They don't think the pay is good. There are 54 schools have been closed. They've laid off 4,000 educators. They say we're going to strike for one day, this is the day, April 1st, you say right before national championships, not doing it. Then what happened to you?
OCOL: I got expelled. Actually, they announced that it would be a protest rally, not a strike, but the letter I received was that I violated the strike policy of the union.
OCOL: So, I don't understand...
KELLY: So, then they had a hearing and they said show up, and you didn't show up because you wanted to with the students again. They said, that's it, you waive your right to defend yourself. You're at a union, you got to pay a fine, and you said, I'll pay the fine but tell us how you wanted them to use your money.
OCOL: Yeah, I didn't want the union to get my pay because I work for that money, but I said, okay, so you can take my money, however, I want that money to be donated to the kids because after all, we're for the kids. If the union is for the kids, then we might as well use the money for the kids.
KELLY: And they wouldn't do it. From the beginning, you've been committed to these children who went on to win the national championship. Yeah, I know, very nice, very nice. However, the union is ticked at you. They are really ticked, and you say you feel like you have been bullied here. Explain.
OCOL: Yes. I got nasty text messages saying that I should have joined the charter schools where there's no union. I got another message saying that I'm a disappointment to the union. And I had fellow teachers who used to smile at me, who used to greet me, but I've not been treated that way anymore after that. And they say that the -- they say that I'm a disappointment to the union. I just feel that as long..
KELLY: They're mad you went to the media. They say you didn't go to them and address your claims, but the students say they love you, and the school has come out and said this is exactly the kind of professionalism that the union should be holding up as a shining example of what it means to be committed to these students. It's a rough area. You say it's high poverty. In any event, good for you for helping the students. We appreciate you being here with us tonight, Joseph. All the best. We'll be right back.
KELLY: Tomorrow night, what do Selena Gomez, Serena Williams and yours truly have in common? Tune in to find out. See you tomorrow. Go to facebook.com/thekellyfile with your thoughts on the show. Good night.
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