Sign in to comment!

Kelly File

Is Trump in trouble with Christian voters?; Former extremist shares thoughts on Orlando terror probe

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, the nation's top law enforcement official visiting the site of the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11. As her Justice Department faces new questions tonight over an attempt to hold back key facts of this tragedy from the American public.

Good evening, and welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.  Attorney General Loretta Lynch touching down in Orlando today, paying her respects at a memorial to the victims and checking in on the investigation.  While back in Washington, the Obama administration distancing themselves from growing concerns over her Justice Department's decision to release a partial transcript of the terrorist's own words. Omitting his pledge of allegiance to ISIS and its leader. And then just hours later, facing public outcry, reversing themselves, releasing the full transcript.

Here is White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest from today.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The decision to release the un- redacted version of the transcript that was released yesterday was made independently and entirely by the Department of Justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: And today, more criticism of the DOJ's release, including the terrorist references to, quote, "Allah" being changed in the transcript to refer to God, why did they do that? And also a refusal to release over 25 minutes of additional transcripts. Why don't we get to see that? Tonight, we're hearing from some former and current FBI sources who are raising new questions about how the DOJ is handing this investigation.

Joining us in moments, American Enterprise Institute fellow Marc Thiessen and DNC member Robert Zimmerman are here. Plus, we will hear tonight from a former Islamic extremist who ultimately rejected that hateful ideology, came out as gay, and is now a counter-extremism advocate. And his presence here tonight is critical. We'll explain why in a moment.

But first, our senior intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge has the latest details on the Justice Department's handling of this investigation.  Catherine.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS SENIOR INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Attorney General Lynch holding a news conference today. And not a single question about the edits or why the FBI and Justice Department reversed themselves so abruptly. Lynch held up the possibility they will release more from the 911 calls in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: So we're looking to be as transparent as possible and to provide as much information as possible over the course of time. We certainly are open to that. I can't tell you when or in what context. But I can tell you that we are open to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: The FBI Justice Department statements said, they cut references to ISIS and Omar Mateen's pledge of allegiance to protect the families and not to give them another platform to promote violence. The two former senior FBI agents with more than decades of experience said, editing 911 calls is unprecedented. And speed in which the decision was reverse strongly suggests, it was discretionary even politically motivated and not about the investigation or the FBI and Justice Department would not have backed down. The White House today distance themselves from a whole thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EARNEST: I'll leave it to the investigators to make those decisions and comment on the wisdom of that.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: The former FBI spokesman told Fox that he has seen edits before but only when it relates to sensitive national security information and the connection to ISIS was already out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes in today's climate, I see the desire not to say specific names, because we don't want to lionize a particular individual or entity that are committing these heinous crimes. But the reality is, we all know who these people are. We know who ISIS is. We shouldn't be afraid to use those words.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: Law enforcement sources familiar with the discussion say the FBI and Justice Department here in Washington signed off. And the severity and speed of the backlash took all of them by surprise -- Megyn.  

KELLY: Catherine Herridge, thank you.

Joining us now with more, Marc Thiessen and Robert Zimmerman, good to see you both.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Megyn.  

KELLY: You know, I'll start with you, Marc, why, why did they change Allah to God in the transcript? That's not what he said. Why are they messing with it, redacting things, keeping back even more tonight than, you know, finally they had to reverse themselves and release a bunch of stuff that they didn't want to release. Now, we find out we still don't have all of it. Why?

THIESSEN: It's purely political. It's coming from the top. And look, this isn't the first time they've done this. If you recall, in April, the White House itself edited a recording of the president of France in a meeting with President Obama referring to Islamic terrorism. The words disappeared from the recording. And then suddenly magically reappeared when there was confusion about this. So this is clearly a political decision. They have a phobia about using the words Islamic radicalism.  And you know --

KELLY: Wait a minute --

THIESSEN: The fact is, that even -- not only, why do we not have those words in there? Why do we not have his voice? You play 911 recordings on your show all the time when there are criminal cases. Why is that?  Because they don't want us to hear this guy speaking Arabic. They don't want us to hear him say in his own voice, I pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr al Baghdadi and may Allah protect him. They don't want to hear us to hear him say Arabic, praise be to God, peace be upon the profit of Allah. I'm in Orlando when he did the shootings.

Because they don't want this to be about Islamic radicalism. They want it to be about guns. They want it to be about homophobia. But if we heard the man's voice saying speaking Arabic, saying these things, that he is doing it for the Islamic state, it would be absolutely clear to the American people what this is about.  

KELLY: The thing is Robert, why can't it be about all of those things?  Why does it have been to be to the exclusion like -- obviously, there was homophobia. Obviously, there were guns in the possession of a man who used them for ill and you should have been prevented from getting them. How do we get to the point where we prevent terrorists from getting guns is another subject. But why so reticent to discuss anything having to do with radical Islamic terrorism?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, first all, that's not the case at all, Megyn. You're correct --

KELLY: Why did they change Allah to God?

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Megyn, the most important point to remember in this entire discussion, is neither Marc nor I, have any facts or any insight into the FBI Department of Justice investigation. It's clearly an investigation in process. And obviously, much of it is confidential. They are trying to walk a very fine line. And the FBI Director James Comey said back on June 13th, they don't want to lionize the murderers, they don't want to give them a platform, they don't want to create copycat situations.

KELLY: How does lionizing the murderer to just tell us what he said, Allah, not God? It's like they're trying to de-Islamify the Islamic --

ZIMMERMAN: Megyn, you can try to pick it apart as much as you want. The bottom-line is it's a long-standing policy not to try to give these murderers and these extremists and these terrorists a platform.

KELLY: Not give them a platform --

ZIMMERMAN: The real issue here Megyn is watching Marc and the Republican right wing try to play partisan politics on the war on terrorism --

KELLY: All right. Hold on. But what does that mean, Marc, not -- the FBI director told us what he said. He told us. So then why does the DOJ then try to redact the transcript such that we can't have these specific words?  And you tell me, that just jumps out, why? Why would they change Allah to God?

THIESSEN: Because they don't want to focus on Islamic radicalism.  

ZIMMERMAN: Once again Marc --

KELLY: Let him finish, Robert.

(CROSSTALK)

Robert, come on, let him answer -- go ahead, Marc.

THIESSEN: Loretta Lynch on "Face the Nation" this weekend said that the focus of her investigation is to figure out why he targeted the LGBT community. I can tell you why he targeted the LGBT community. Because he's an Islamic radical. Because he is a soldier of ISIS. Because that is what they do.  

KELLY: They hate gays.  

THIESSEN: They attack gays all the time. And this difference here is it's the first time they did it in America.

KELLY: Go ahead, Robert.

THIESSEN: They did it in Aleppo. They did it in Fallujah. They just took a little boy, a month ago, tied him up, threw him off of a building and posted the photos of it. So this is about Islamic radicalism.  

ZIMMERMAN: And all these tragedies that you're describing make it even more imperative not to treat this as a partisan political game. For you to make these charges --

THIESSEN: It's not a partisan game --

ZIMMERMAN: Let me finish my point. When you make these charges, when in fact the Republican conservatives still allow terror suspects to buy and collect firearms, when the Republican Congress still refuses to even declare war against ISIS, when the right wing advocates strategies that our military generals say endanger us and enable ISIS to engage more  recruiters --

THIESSEN: Are you kidding me?

ZIMMERMAN: This is the point I'm making. That you, in fact, have no information, no facts to go with your charges against the White House, but it really doesn't matter because you view it as politics. The issue is how do we unite the country to fight terrorism. And the real scandal --

KELLY: You can see -- really the country is very divided on this, very divided.

ZIMMERMAN: Actually, we're very united, Megyn. It's just the partisan --

KELLY: No, we are not. No, we aren't.

ZIMMERMAN: -- dividing the country.

KELLY: We aren't united. We can't get anything done. Nothing ever changes. Nothing ever changes.  

THIESSEN: You know where you headed about? The majority of Americans think Barack Obama's doing a terrible job on the war on terror that we should be putting boots on the ground and beating the hell out of ISIS.

KELLY: Now, I have to go.

THIESSEN: And that's the problem.

KELLY: I have another guest standing by. Great to see you both.

THIESSEN: Good to be with you.

KELLY: There is breaking news tonight as the dramatic new report just came out moments ago on Omar Mateen, the Orlando terrorist. We are getting reports that a man has now come forward to tell investigators, the FBI, that he and Mateen were lovers for the last two months. He described Mateen as a confused gay man who drank heavily. Univision News broke this story a short time ago. They spoke to this man in Spanish. This is a picture from that interview where he was heavily disguised.

The man said that the FBI had interviewed him three times plus another on the phone. The FBI apparently confirmed to Univision that it had been in touch with this man. And the man went on to say that he thinks Mateen knew, that he thinks Mateen's wife knew that Mateen was gay.

Sohail Ahmed is a former radical Islamist and now a contributor with the Clarion Project. Great to see you tonight. So, this, I mean, we didn't know we'd be having this breaking news when we book you for this story but you're the perfect person to talk to. You were radicalized. You had parents who brought you up and almost got you to the point where you were ready to commit violence and you took yourself the last ten percent before you've reeled yourself back. Grew up in London, a gay man.

So, you tell me what you think about that report that he was gay, that obviously, you know, this radical Islam teaches you to hate yourself if you're gay, and what role you think that played here.

SOHAIL AHMED, FORMER RADICAL ISLAMIST: Well, I think there's a number of factorings that played here. I think one of the factors was kind of the grievances that he had with the LGBT community and with regards to the recent interaction that he had with the two gay men mentioned. But also, I think kehay (ph) is the Islamist ideology. The ideology of radical Islam.  And the reason why I say that is because a person might have a number of grievances, but what happens is that Islamism provides the framework that shunts these grievances towards the particular direction. That being of carrying out mass atrocity attacks.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

AHMED: And I think there's also kind of internalized homophobia here that kind of led to externalized homophobia as well, and I think what should be important to mention here is it's not just Islamism that contributes to this, it's Islam as a whole. The overwhelming majority of Muslims follow a conservative traditionalist form of Islam and there are four main schools in traditionalist Islam. Four main schools of law. Three of those schools stipulate the death penalty for homosexuality.  

KELLY: So, it's all connected. And your point is, the people who want to say this is all about homophobia and guns and not Islam have it wrong and the people who tells us all about Islam and has nothing to do with homophobia and organs, they're missing it too. Because you're saying this teaches that gays are bad. I mean, this --

AHMED: Exactly, I think they're all wrong, because all these factors come into play here. I think it's homophobia, I think it's the issue of gun control, I think it's the issue of radicalism. But what happens is that, what I'm saying here is that the ideology of radicalism basically says, if you have a grievance, here's a good way of letting out your steam. And just if I could basically explain the ideology of radicalism. What it seeks to do is that it seeks to unite the entire Islamic world under one banner and then what it wants to do after that is basically via offensive warfare to then invade, take over and then annex of the territories.

This is all kind of part and parcel. And attacking the LGBT community. I mean, LGBT rights and, like, gay clubs and gay bars are one of the things that describe the examples of western advancement. And attacking an LGBT club is specific to his own situation, but also it is a specific attack against the West, and I think it's important to point out here as well that he was scoping out Disneyland before he carried out the attack in Orlando - -

KELLY: Good point. I have to ask you --

AHMED: -- nothing to do with LGBT stuff. So, the common thread there is the West. So, it's both an attack on the LGBT community and attack on the West.  

KELLY: And everything we stand for as Americans and in the West. I want to ask you quickly before I let you go, you said you came close to doing it. You came close to conducting a suicide bombing or an attack similar to what we saw in Orlando over in London. How did you reel yourself back?  What was it that stopped you?

AHMED: Well, what stopped me was, interestingly, just the technical point within Islamic theological thought. Within hermeneutics. Basically, the Islamic scholars argued that considering that I was a British citizen, I have a contract with the British government, that I won't attack them.  Therefore, it's impermissible for me to carry an attack.

KELLY: -- technicality.

AHMED: No. Hey, it's not saying that terrorist attacks are bad. It's saying a technicality. And because it's such a technicality, it's easy to override that restriction in terms of the theology. And that's why I think a lot of people from an Islamist background are increasingly predisposed to carrying out terror attacks.

KELLY: Wow, thank you for coming on tonight. Again, he has reformed, he has rejected that ideology and we're very grateful to have you here with us tonight, thank you, sir.

Well, we are also getting new details tonight on this man and his failed assassination attempt against Donald Trump.

Plus, new gun control drama on Capitol Hill tonight. But is it real or just a political play? Katie Pavlich and Julie Roginsky are next on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The court will report the title of the bill.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calendar number 488, HR 5388, the bill to amend the Homeland Security Act of 2002 to provide for innovative --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Breaking tonight, new Capitol Hill drama over gun control as the House breaks out into chaos as Democrats try to demand gun control action, shouting no bill, no break. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The court will report the title of the bill.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calendar number 488, HR 5388, the bill to amend the Homeland Security Act --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: This is the second time and as many days the tempers appeared to have boiled over. But some folks are asking whether this is legit or just a political play.

Katie Pavlich is news editor of Townhall.com. Julie Roginsky is a Democratic analyst, both are FOX News contributors.

So, Julie, let me start with you, what specifically are they mad about, because you've got a couple of Republican proposal, a couple of Democrats proposals neither of which can get the votes.

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC ANALYST: Yes. But the reality is that Chris Murphy who started this filibuster wanted universal background checks which should not be a controversial idea. Eighty three percent of NRA members want this. This is not a controversial idea. And yet even this cannot pass, which just goes to show how broken our system is when it comes to gun safety legislation.

KELLY: But the proposals Katie have to do with more than just background checks.  

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Of course, they have more to do with background checks. And let's not forget that gun control is a big distraction from the real issue here. Omar Mateen did not pledge allegiance to the NRA or Republicans and, by the way, he passed a background check when he purchased his firearms legally. This is a distraction away from the Obama administration's failed policies on ISIS and instead of grandstanding on gun control, Congress should be getting ready to debate a declaration of war so we can stop this problem where it exist which is overseas and here at home.

KELLY: What -- what about the Susan Collins legislation, Julie? Which is, she's a Republican from Maine, she's sort of, you know, in the middle of the road, and she's got this proposal that would prohibit gun sales to people who are on two different terror watch lists, one of two terror watch lists. You can appeal. If your gun purchases restricted, you can get your attorney fees back if you win. And it's got a look back provision that would require FBI notification of somebody who had, you know, been in the terror database manages to slip through and get a gun. Does that have any chance?

ROGINSKY: Look, I'm not sure if it has any chance because I think this Congress is so polarized when it comes to gun control. And I'm somebody who is very sympathetic to the due prospect aspect of this where some bureaucrat can put you on the terror watch -- and no fly list --

KELLY: The IRS -- targeted conservatives --

ROGINSKY: No question that you have absolutely no access to any kind of due process if some bureaucrat decides to put you on. But there are several things here that you can do. I mean, there's no controversy whatsoever that making sure of Mateen aside, that people who pass universal background checks, not just people who do them at gun shows, people who do them at private sales and people who do them at gun shows --

KELLY: Yes. But that solves the problem that did not cause these murders, Katie --

(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)

ROGINSKY: But not the NRA --

KELLY: Okay, great, but that would not have stopped Omar Mateen.

PAVLICH: And oftentimes it wouldn't have stopped actually most mass shootings about to mention, terrorism in this country. Look, I think at a time when American citizens are at the most at risk than they've been since 9/11, it is astonishing that the left is telling us to disarm and attacking the NRA whose members by the way are members not protecting just their Second Amendment rights, not just protecting due process but protecting their families when ISIS comes knocking in their neighborhoods and the left is trying to take that away from them.  

ROGINSKY: With all due respect, Katie, 82 percent of those same NRA members want universal background checks and the reality is you can't let the bad defeat the good --

PAVLICH: If terrorists doesn't pass a background check --

ROGINSKY: Katie. Katie. Katie. There are more than -- there's more than just this one instance. And the reality is, that if you can walk into a gun show and purchase something --

KELLY: You're stuck on the gun show -- you're stuck on the gun show. The legislation that they're looking at --

PAVLICH: -- has nothing to do with it.

KELLY: The situation here is, how do you prevent a terrorist from getting a gun. Everyone wants that. Everyone agrees on that. The terrorists should be. The potential terrorists should be stop from getting a gun.  But it's more complicated than that. How do you figure out who is a potential terrorist and still stay consistent with the bill of rights. I got to leave it at that. Great to see you both.

ROGINSKY: Thank you.

PAVLICH: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Up next, new details on the attempted assassination of Donald Trump.

Plus, "The Kelly File" did some digging on what the Russians were doing inside Clinton Foundation computers allegedly. We'll show you what we found. And what the Clinton camp is saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.  

KELLY: We are getting a clearer picture of the story behind the young man accused of trying to assassinate Donald Trump. Las Vegas police arrested Michael Sanford on Saturday after he tried to pull a gun from a cop's holster and later told police he did it in an effort to kill Trump.  

Trace Gallagher live here in New York with us with the very latest. Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the 20-year-old suspect is from England but was living in New Jersey for the past year and a half. He was here illegally because he overstayed his visa. Court records show that Michael Sanford drove from Jersey to San Bernardino earlier this month and was living out of his car. Sanford told police he then drove from California to Vegas specifically to kill Donald Trump. But he'd never shot a gun so the day before the Trump rally, he went to a Las Vegas gun range and fired 20 rounds from a .9-millimeter handgun.

The Trump rally was held at the Treasure Island Casino and there was only one entrance with security checking all belongings. And that's where a Las Vegas metro police officer was stationed. Stanford told investigators he approached the officer because it looked like his holster was unlocked.  Unreleased surveillance video shows the suspect reaching for the officer's gun and being arrested. As he was being led away, Donald Trump, who was on stage, commented. Watch.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We love our police.  We love our police. Thank you. Thank you, officers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Michael Sanford waved his Miranda rights and told police that his plan was to fire off one or two rounds at Trump before police shot and killed him. Sanford also bought a ticket to the Trump event in Phoenix just in case he failed to kill him in Vegas. And he told police if he's let back on the streets, he will try to kill Trump again.

Michael Sanford is being held in jail as a flight risk -- Megyn.

KELLY: My God! Trace, thank you. Good gracious.

Also tonight, dramatic new fallout from reports that the Trump campaign is running on financial fumes. New financial filings show the Trump campaign had less than $1.3 million in the bank headed into June. Compare that to the Clinton campaign which reported a $42 million war chest. Donald Trump backer Ed Rollins tells "The Washington Post" that Trump is now, quote, "Looking into the abyss."

Joining me now with that. Guy Benson, Townhall.com political editor and a FOX News contributor. Boris Epstein, a Trump supporter and former communications aide with the McCain/Palin campaign. And Chris Stirewalt, our FOX News digital politics editor.

Chris, let me start with you. How bad is that, you know, $42 million versus 1.3?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, when a guy who's working on your campaign says you're looking into the abyss, I don't think he means the abyss of excellence and joy. So no bueno is the term for that. But we have to remember, we have to remember. Trump's campaign is not about money, it's about Trump. Trump and more Trump. That's the idea and he's said all along that he was not probably going to be able to match Hillary Clinton who's better at buck raking than any human being who has ever raked a buck.

She's got more connections, she's got more friends. Done more favors, all that stuff. She's got this huge organization. He has no organization.  What he has is himself going on television and getting free coverage and he also has the ability to create controversy, so he's not going to need as much money as she has. This amount of money, though, is impossible. This is unworkable.  

KELLY: He's got to start putting some money in the coffers. And Boris, he says no problem, I can do that, no problem. I have to do it with my own cash. I'll do it with my own cash. Do you believe that?

BORIS EPSHTEYN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. Now first of all, that number was at the end of May. The first event, the first fund-raising event was May 25th. That was the result of one event. I know for a fact Donald Trump raised more money tonight, about five times more money than that $1.5 million that was out there.

So, there's going to be no problem. Fund-raising is ongoing. It's going to be great for June, we stick to July numbers that are much better than the numbers you've been seeing. So, there's no issue there.

Now of course, you know Donald Trump has a lot of his own and he's already shown to be willing to put his money where his mouth is and he'll continue to do so if he needs to be. But this is not a concern. It's not going to be an issue.

KELLY: Even though Trump has a lot of money, he is notoriously frugal. Some people say that's why he has a lot of money, right?

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: Most people are.

KELLY: We can probably take a lesson. And I'm hearing my husband in my own head. In any event, the point is -- the point is, do we really believe, Guy, that he's willing to spend $1 billion of his own money to get himself elected?

GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Maybe not billion. Let's do it. If you're going to spend it, let's spend it. I think the issue with the fund- raising and that really bad number in May, is he had the entire month, he saw this thing up, what, May the 4th, and still just squandered basically a month, not just the fund-raising, the money matters for ground game.

And I've been making this point. Donald Trump got a wake-up call in Iowa during the primaries and those caucuses. He thought that his way was going to be just enough and he was leading by five points going into Iowa.

Ted Cruz out organized him on the ground and he lost in Iowa. We're not messing around anymore. If you want to beat Hillary Clinton, she is going to be churning out money like crazy. Printing money. You have to get serious. And that number I think made a lot of republicans very nervous.

KELLY: The saying, Chris, that the top fund-raisers are not opening up the coffers because they are concerned, you know, he fired Corey Lewandowski as his campaign manager. They're not -- it's not Corey Lewandowski. They're concerned about Trump. His controversial comments.

The Wall Street Journal had a report talking about how they're worried about the comments he made about that judge and other things and they don't want to put money into a campaign that can't get it done.

STIREWALT: So, if you've got a culvert that goes under your driveway, under your road, if you're in West Virginia and the groundhog dies in it, the water will not go through, it just bloats up too much and no water comes out at the other end.

EPSHTEYN: I know what you're getting at.

STIREWALT: There is a dead groundhog in the culvert of the republican fund-raising system and that is the fact that these donors won't give. They're looking at Trump. They're looking at this situation. This is affecting Senate races, House races, and gubernatorial races.

So, the Republican Party is looking at Donald Trump and saying get with it, get regular, get on teleprompter, calm down, act like a normal candidate and start raking in money from big donors. And also what he started doing today, which is beating up those small donors.

Send out those e-mails, you know the billion you get in your inbox every day. Hey, it's the last chance, this is the most urgent moment, act now, act now, act

And in that way, he becomes like a regular candidate. He gets money but he loses the advantage that he has of being able to say "I'm my own guy," I don't take their money.

KELLY: But the thing is, you know, the other way of looking at this is Trump has, what, you know, one-tenth of what Hillary has, if that. But he's still polling even with her in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

I mean, with basically no effort. If he can win Ohio and Pennsylvania, I mean, it will be stunning. Pennsylvania is basically considered blue now.

EPSHTEYN: And he's down by eight in Florida, but that's after all the comments about the judge that I think we're absolutely normal but that did hurt him in the polls there.

KELLY: You think they were normal?

EPSHTEYN: I don't see any problem with the comments. And I think the polls will show in about two weeks he'll be back even in Florida too.

Now again, ask the money, the RNC has outraised the DNC by $50 million in this cycle, by 80 million since 2013. So, let's not act like the Republican Party has a money issue. Let's not act like Trump has a money issue. This election is not going to be...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: The Trump's campaign does have a money issue as today. The question is, I mean, whether he can turn it around. It's a different story.

BENSON: And then let's not pretend money doesn't matter. And it's not just me saying that or Megyn or anyone else. Trump himself last month said we have to raise $1 billion.

EPSHTEYN: And he's working really hard to do that.

BENSON: Well, maybe now he is.

EPSHTEYN: he's working hard to be that, well, he's got over four months left to go. There's not going to be an issue. We are going to beat Hillary because she's got a huge truthfulness problem.

KELLY: You may not think that the comments about the judge were an issue but the donors clearly do. The polls reflected it was a problem. And even Trump ultimately came around to that because he walked back when it was rare for Trump that he had to reverse himself as much as trump is capable of doing.

EPSHTEYN: I think in November it's going to not end up being an issue.

KELLY: All right. Well, that's a different point.

EPSHTEYN: That's what I'm saying.

KELLY: Great to see you both. And you, too, Stirewalt.

STIREWALT: You bet.

KELLY: I got that image in my head, the groundhog. I'm like thinking caddy shack. Because is anybody else picturing that right now? That could be the way forward for them.

Well, we also got new polling today suggesting this election is starting to break down along racial lines like no other in recent history.

Pastor Mark Burns and Tavis Smiley is here next. Plus, Tony Perkins joins us on what is happening with Evangelical voters and Trump, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love the Evangelicals. It's really shown in the polls. Why do they love me? You'll have to ask them. But they do.

(OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: They do love me. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: A new reaction tonight to Donald Trump's closed door meeting with the Evangelical leaders today. Trump met with the coalition of conservative Christians. Many of whom backed Ted Cruz in the primaries. When asked where they stand now, well, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess by a show hands or however you'd like to do it, how many of you are have already or are willing today to say you'll support Donald Trump and offer your endorsement?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Oh, boy. Joining me now, one of those men, Tony Perkin, president of the Family Research Council. Great to see you, Tony.

TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Good evening, Megyn.

KELLY: So, why didn't you raise your hand?

PERKINS: Well, look, it's the beginning of a conversation. Just today was the first of a process of having a conversation with Donald Trump about issues of mutual concern and see where he stands on the issues.

I don't think there was no anticipation that there would be endorsements coming out of the event today. That's not what this was about. It was about a conversation with Donald Trump.

KELLY: Why do you need to talk to him? Because a lot of people would say your choice should be clear when you're looking at a republican versus Hillary Clinton.

PERKINS: No. It's a little more challenging for Evangelicals. I mean, we're not there just to be political, you know, lap dogs of the Republican Party. Here's the nominee, therefore, you're with them.

We've got to be both an influence in this process and a witness to a standard of truth that is revealed in scripture that we adhere to. That's what we work for.

And so, when we have a candidate that has really kind of has had positions in the past that are inconsistent with that, we've got to have a conversation.

KELLY: Being pro-choice.

PERKINS: Right.

KELLY: Do you believe he's converted to pro-life?

PERKINS: I do.

KELLY: Do you believe he's sincere.

PERKINS: I mean, he has said that. But here's the challenge we have. Having been in politics for about 20 years. I understand that past performance is the best indicator of future performance. He doesn't have a track record in being in public office.

So, I think that's one of the things that's going to be important. Is who he picks as a running made. Is it someone who does have that conservative record who has a relationship with Evangelicals.

There is common ground, though. And we saw as fascinating. We thought maybe we would have 400 people when we called this meeting. Over 1,000 came. People are eager. They want to be able to be for him because they know the alternative is bad for the country and certainly that.

KELLY: How important is the Evangelical vote do you think in this election?

PERKINS: It's critical. I mean, it's always an important bloc, but I think in this election because the turnout is even higher. I think we go back to the numbers of 2008 versus 2012. And I think he's got to beat the numbers of Mitt Romney in order to win this election.

KELLY: How is going to do better with the Evangelicals than Mitt Romney did?

PERKINS: Well, I think one is he has -- this was an historic meeting. I've never been in a meeting with this many Evangelical leaders across the country and he connected with him on two fronts.

One, he talked very clearly about the issue of religious liberty and that he would defend religious liberty. Remember, he's talking to people who for the last seven and a half years have had their ability to live their lives according to their faith attacked almost every day.

KELLY: Been on their heels.

PERKINS: By the Obama administration. And there's something else that I've watched with this, Megyn. I think it's fascinating, is that as he's been, you know, attacked for not toeing the politically correct line, he relates to Evangelicals because they feel the same way. They feel they're under assault by the culture.

And here's a guy that they may not agree with him on everything and they have a different perspective on many things, but they say here's a guy who's willing just to call it like he sees it. Say it as he believes it. While they may not agree with him on everything, they're agreed on him a lot but not everything. They're glad somebody's finally saying, you know what, this is the way it is.

KELLY: You didn't raise your hand but I'm sensing the hand is going up soon. I'm just -- I'm going to put it out there.

PERKINS: Well, there was no alter called. There is no hands were raised, all right.

KELLY: All right. Great to see you, Tony.

PERKINS: All right, Megyn. Good to see you, too.

KELLY: All the best. Well, the latest polling also shows that this election is starting to break down along racial lines. And then the dramatic fashion.

In the latest survey from Monmouth University, Hillary Clinton holds a 55- point lead over Donald Trump when it comes to non-white voters. Trump tops Hillary by 11 points among white voters.

Joining me now, Pastor Mark Burns, he is open for Mr. Trump in a number of his rallies and he's the founder and president of the Now Television Network. Great to see you, pastor.

So, that's quite a deficit. You know, many people believe there is just not a chance for Donald Trump unless he can improve his numbers with minority voters. Do you agree with that?

MARK BURNS, NOW TELEVISION NETWORK PRESIDENT & FOUNDER: Well, you know, I do think, and I think it's a good question you asked that, Megyn. But I do also know having been on the front line with the African-American community throughout this country, having trouble with the campaign, having spoken at many of the rallies across this country. There are so many closet supporters that are African-American -- that are African-Americans, but they support Donald Trump.

KELLY: And they don't want to say that they support Donald Trump?

BURNS: Because of this political climate. This political sleaziness about some people may call it political correctness. I call it political sleaziness, you know.

KELLY: You know, we've seen that even with respect to African-Americans who are republicans or who are conservatives who get shamed...

BURNS: Yes.

KELLY: ... by some leaders into believing that somehow a betrayal of their heritage.

BURNS: Absolutely. What, you know, democrats for over 50 years have claimed the black vote. I think it's sad that Hillary Clinton has been tap dancing, has been pandering after the black vote and for 50 years, black people have been voting democrat, and we're still broke, we're still not at the top of the food chain financially.

And that's what Donald Trump is saying, that's what's really resonating to black America or to the African-American community is that Donald Trump understands poverty has no color. Poverty doesn't care what race you are. Poverty doesn't care what your heritage is.

KELLY: But what do you make -- he's made some controversial comments that have gotten him in trouble with some, including about African-Americans. He was at a rally not long ago where there was an African-American supporter in the crowd and Trump said "There's my African-American," and many people were offended by that.

There was a book about Trump that suggested he said he didn't want blacks counting his money, he'd rather have Jews counting his money. I believe that's been denied by Trump but that was in the book about him.

BURNS: Absolutely.

KELLY: So, your thoughts on whether any of that plays at all.

BURNS: Well, no, I don't. Because again, the conversations that I've had with thousands of black people across this country, they want jobs. They understand that I've been voting democrat for over 50 years. The black people have been voting for the same party for over 50 years and we're no more economic -- no more empowered than we were back during the Civil Rights movement.

KELLY: I want to ask you quickly, though.

BURNS: Sure.

KELLY: Because you sound like a republican who would probably support a republican. Do you like Trump more? You know, is this -- is he special to you more so than your average republican?

BURNS: Absolutely. Donald Trump has reached a plateau to where he has freed Americans to really say what they've been saying privately for years, but now they have the boldness to say it publicly. That is a freedom.

Donald Trump, this is what he means by America first. We have lost freedoms, religious liberties.

KELLY: I got it.

BURNS: We have lost economic power and now this is a candidate that is owned by no one, bought by no one, and he's a person that is in ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: OK, I got to go. Pastor, thank you

BURNS: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Joining me now with more, Tavis Smiley, the host of Tavis Smiley Show and author of the new book out today "Before You Judge Me. The Triumph and Tragedy of Michael Jackson in His Last Days." Tavis, great to see you.

TAVIS SMILEY, TAVIS SMILEY SHOW HOST: Hi, Megyn. Good to be on.

KELLY: What do you think of that. Do you believe Donald Trump can win the black vote given the deficit he faces towards Hillary Clinton?

SMILEY: I said many, many months ago that Donald Trump was and to my mind still is, an irascible unrepentant religious and racial arsonist. I was proven right about that. And he continues to have things come out of his mouth that are hard to square with that first century Palestinian Jew named Jesus that I serve.

Pastor Burns and Tony Perkins aren't the only ones who serve that first century Palestinian Jew, I serve him too, but it's hard for me to square what comes of his mouth with the Jesus that I serve.

KELLY: The 88 percent of voters of colors strongly dislike Donald Trump according to the latest poll. I mean, it's not, they don't sound like they're on the fence, even though, you know, the pastor has anecdotal evidence to the contrary and he believes many are not saying they like him. Do you believe that, even though they secretly do?

SMILEY: People are not stuck on stupid. When they know truth, when they hear truth, they respond to it. And when someone changes positions like he changes socks, it's hard to know, number one who the real Donald Trump is to begin with, but ultimately, it's not about your personality, it's about your politics.

And when you are pushing an agenda that is antithetical to the best interest of people of color in this country, they can sniff that out.

KELLY: Like how? How, because you heard -- you know, the pastor was talking about the economy, he's going to turn that around, get jobs, and so on.

SMILEY: That's what the pastor is saying. But if Donald Trump were pushing that agenda that African-Americans and other people of color could believe in, the numbers wouldn't be where they are.

It's a legitimate question but one we shouldn't waste good Fox TV time on because, again, if you were pushing an agenda that they believe in, the numbers wouldn't be where they are. It's pretty simple to me.

KELLY: I got to ask about this new book you have coming on Michael Jackson. Today, there was disturbing news about Michael Jackson's estate saying that they found a sizable collection of child pornography at his Nederland ranch back in 2003, I mean, really dark, dark stuff. Does your book make him into a mythical figure, does it acknowledge this issue?

SMILEY: No. One, I don't believe in myths, number one. So, the answer to your question is no, he's not a mythical figure. Number two, our book covers the last 16 weeks of his life. And the moment he announces I'm coming back one more time, "this is it" until he takes his last breathe 16 weeks later.

I think sometimes we get so caught up in the iconography of these personalities that we don't find a way into their humanity. I don't think anything that came out today, he's going to change anybody's mind about Michael Jackson.

Whenever you were seven years ago when he died, you're probably in the same place right now. But I do think his fans find it curious that every or about to commemorate the seventh anniversary of his death that this stuff just happens to come out magically and mysteriously. And I think his fans will also tell you...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: I have to go, Tavis.

SMILEY: ... that they long ago lost trust in times sniffing the D.A., the former D.A. and the police investigators.

KELLY: I got to go. Thank you, sir.

SMILEY: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: It's great to see you. My apologies. Heart break. We'll talk after.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Well, developing information on some potentially bad news for Hillary Clinton tonight as we hear reports that the Clinton Foundation was breached by suspected Russian hackers.

In his Bloomberg quotes a source as saying "These hackers are targeting some 4,000 people associated with U.S. politics. There are, of course, then growing concerns that the fallout could extend well beyond the Clintons.

Trace Gallagher live with me here in New York, that's fun, with the latest. Hey, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Megyn. This breach is being called the drag net of the U.S. political apparatus, targeting all three of the current presidential campaigns and both the democratic and Republican National Committees.

In fact, information from the DNC has already been posted online including what Bloomberg says are the names of big donors to the Clinton Foundation. And now it appears the Clinton Foundation, itself, has been breached. Though, tonight, the foundation told us, quoting, "We have no evidence the Clinton Foundation systems were breached and have not been notified by law enforcement of any issue."

Experts say it's not unusual for targets not to know considering government investigations often use back channels to view attacks before victims can detect them, but this is bad news for the Clinton campaign on two fronts.

One, Donald Trump has already said he plans to use Clinton Foundation activities to attack Hillary's campaign, and with the Clinton campaign and Clinton Foundation both being hacked, it dredges up more concerns about Hillary Clinton's overall digital security.

Even as the FBI continues to investigate her e-mails. Analyst also point out that if thousands of political documents were breached and eventually posted online, it sets the stage for a major embarrassment like what Sony Entertainment endured when thousands of e-mails filled with gossip about stars and world leaders went public in 2013.

By the way, experts think the Russians are behind the latest attack. The Russians deny that. Megyn?

KELLY: The Russians have some hacking power.

GALLAGHER: They deny they have hacking power.

KELLY: Well, I mean, I feel like they know more about these candidates than any of us does.

GALLAGHER: Yes.

KELLY: Great to see you.

GALLAGHER: You, too.

KELLY: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: One final note for you tonight, this is a picture of a woman named Stacey Feeley's 3-year-old daughter. The little girl is practicing a preschool lockdown. What she'll do if a gunman comes into her classroom and tries to shoot her.

We now live in a country where toddlers have to prepare for mass shootings. And where, if the teachers in those lockdowns, in case of an emergency say a prayer, they can be fired.

Does any of this seem wrong to you? Facebook.com/thekellyfile. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.