Is the Obama administration bungling its response to terror?

The debate continues on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 21, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld, its 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Our attorney general visited Orlando today, and met with investigators, first responders and victims of the June 12th terror attack. Loretta Lynch addressed reporters, but she didn't address the decision by her Justice Department to unredact the transcript of the terrorist call in 911 just hours after a version was released without any mention of ISIS or Islam. She did say the actual recording of Omar Mateen could eventually be released as well.


LORETTA LYNCH, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're looking to be as transparent as possible and to provide as much information as possible over the course of time. We certainly are open to that. I can't tell you when or in what context, but I can tell you that we are open to that.


PERINO: Lynch made the rounds on the Sunday talk shows to explain why the administration was initially going to shield the public from words that didn't think they should hear. The president's former defense intelligence chief notes a pattern by the administration to what he says is censoring the truth.


LIEUTENANT GENERAL MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE CHIEF: This White House has a terrible track record of sending senior members of its administration out on the Sunday talk show circuit to try to, to try to, you know, baloney or, you know, talk above the United States, American public. I mean, this is just unbelievable and there are three examples of this where Susan Rice came out on Benghazi, Ben Rhodes came out on the Iranian nuclear deal and now Attorney General Lynch has come out on this particular issue. The American people are smarter than that.


PERINO: All right, Greg. I want to start with you today, because you wrote a column for saying that Orlando was our worst response to terrorism ever.


PERINO: And that we're doomed.

GUTFELD: Well no, because the -- it's so depressing to me that now every single issue is a conflict. Now we're, we're even arguing now over the 911 call. We can't even, we can't even agree on the smallest elements of, of brutal story. And what depresses me is that every country, every successful country survives on the cooperation of its citizens. And the cooperation of your citizens is based on the idea that you are a citizen and that we're all Americans. But we're now in this weird place where we view terror and tragedy from our identities, that somehow everybody has to look at it differently whether you're a liberal or a conservative, black, white, lesbian, gay, straight, whatever.


GUTFELD: Questioning, questioning. Thank you. That we -- now cannot agree on how to view something like terror, and it's all because of cultural relativism. We cannot agree on what's bad anymore, because we ourselves don't see ourselves as any good. It's the final triumph of identity politics that we can't even, after a terror attack, just agree that it's a terror attack and then maybe talk about the gun issue, but we know we can't even do that anymore, and that's sad. I mean this is the, this is the kernel of our destruction, I hate to say it.

PERINO: Yeah, you call it -- you said that it the most depressing thing you'll ever share, but share it, anyway, so --


PERINO: It's been a lot of pick up. Kimberly --


PERINO: Do you think that Loretta Lynch, the attorney general, regrets the decision to go forward and redact this 911 call, initially?

GUILFOYLE: I'm sure she does, because guess what, she got humiliated because she got walked out, paraded on the Sunday shows, very similar to Susan Rice who pushed the video, lost any credibility that she had by putting forward a false narrative. And, you know, this attorney general knows better. There was no good reason except to try and provide cover for the White House to scrub that and redact those -- they should have gone forward in its entirety, because this administration has promised transparency to the American people and eight years later, we're still waiting for it.

PERINO: And now Eric, now she's saying that they actually might release the audio recording, as well.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Great, as long as they don't scrub that as well.


BOLLING: Remember when they bleeped James Rosen, so they sent through Rosen because he was talking about the negotiations with Iran.


BOLLING: Then Francois Hollande was talking about Islamic terror, and they -- whatever, they scrub his words as well, they cut his words out .

PERINO: Yes, in the transcript.

BOLLING: . in the transcript.

PERINO: And the tape, true.

BOLLING: And the tape. Yeah --


BOLLING: And then they had to go to the transcript to find out .


BOLLING: . that they had done it in the tape, and now they're scrubbing the terrorist's words. The three things that -- there's actually, there's two issues there. The three -- there's a common thread among what they were doing, they're -- again, with Iran, with Islamic terrorists and the terrorists. Again, they're afraid, they have some sort of fear of offending Muslims, so they do these things. They think it's OK. But also, two of them were State Department censorships and the third one is the Department of Justice. They all lead up to the White House. So, it clearly is coming down from the White House, going to the different agencies saying, we need to handle whatever they're doing. Maybe they're just being like, hey, we need to handle this differently when there's a Muslim thread to it. I think that's ridiculous. I think the American people deserve transparency, honesty and let us decide what's offensive and what's not offensive.

PERINO: Juan, do you think it's a pattern or a just coincidence that those three things that he's laid out there?


JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh no, I think it is part of the republican view of this situation the way Greg was talking about, our political polarization. I mean, from my perspective, I thought that the FBI director, the attorney general wanted to avoid any appearance of impropriety in an election year. They changed their decision, but to my mind, they caved under pressure. They caved under pressure from everybody who is a conspiracy theorist. And, you know, they gave a deranged killer a megaphone to publicize his sick ideas. And I think we also run the risk, I mean we talked about this last week, when you put out this guy's name and you make him in some kind of martyr for these people, then you run the risk of copycats, but he was a liar. He said he had a bomb on him. He said there were bombs outside. He says, first, he's going -- he wants -- he's doing this to stop the bombing in Syria. Then he says, "Oh, no, I'm with Hezbollah." Then he says, "No, no. I'm with ISIS." But you know what Hezbollah and ISIS, that's Shia, Sunni, that's not the same group.

BOLLING: He did say ISIS several times.


BOLLING: So what you just want? He repeated --

GUTFELD: He named the leader.

BOLLING: Yeah --

PERINO: And actually --

BOLLING: And without any mention ISIS.

WILLIAMS: Right. But I'm saying he's a conspiracy guy .


WILLIAMS: . who says at the same time, you know, he doesn't like homosexuals, then it's possibly we learn -- guess what, he may be a self- hating homosexual. I mean, it was --

GUILFOYLE: Why do you always -- why do you bend over backwards in some bizarre positions that I certainly haven't seen before, to make excuses for this guy.

WILLIAMS: How am I making excuses?

GUILFOYLE: You want to call him crazy. You want to call him --

WILLIAMS: He is crazy. Do you think he's insane?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, he has like gay shame or .


GUILFOYLE: This and that. I mean, it's just so ridiculous. It's like why won't you take it for what it is. And believe me; the administration went out of their way to scrub it.

WILLIAMS: To scrub what?

GUILFOYLE: So that people couldn't see -- the record, so people couldn't see exactly what he was saying.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

GUILFOYLE: And what he was attacking, you know, and --

WILLIAMS: I think it was a reasoned decision Kimberly, to say, you know, we do not want to give a megaphone for this guy to publicize anti-American sentiment.

GUTFELD: But Juan, I think that it's -- the exception to this .

GUILFOYLE: That's not what it was and you know it.

GUTFELD: . it's if he had stated specifically anti-gay rhetoric, they would not scrub that. If it was, if it was racist rhetoric, they wouldn't scrub that.

GUILFOYLE: If it was the KKK, would they scrub it?

GUTFELD: Yeah, they wouldn't scrub it. So I, I mean, I would like to think they are consistent, but I don't think they are.

WILLIAMS: I think that they are consistent. I think when you look exactly - - this is what you were talking about, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I know.

WILLIAMS: That when you, you don't even want to say his name. There's law enforcement who say .

GUTFELD: I agree.

WILLIAMS: . I don't this murderer --

GUTFELD: Forget him. Forget him.


GUTFELD: But do not deny the link. You got -- you can't deny the link to Islamism.

WILLIAMS: But nobody denies the link. I mean, FBI director .


WILLIAMS: . and the FBI from the very start, from the very start said this is a terrorist investigation.

GUTFELD: They didn't say Islamism. That must be said. When you apply the politics of Sharia law or the politics of Islam, coerce it, force it on a community. That's what it is.

PERINO: And in fact, this morning, Eric, I think it was Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary said that calling it Islamic radical terrorism or Islamism is just a republican talking point. So now, it looks like we're gonna have to fall out on this one.

BOLLING: Why is that?

PERINO: I don't know.

BOLLING: Why is it just a republican talking point? Why --

GUTFELD: There are liberals who believe this.

BOLLING: Why -- yeah .

GUTFELD: Right. They are liberals --

BOLLING: Why don't democrats realize that when a guy says, Allahu Akbar shoots the place up and pledges allegiance to ISIS .

GUILFOYLE: And Baghdadi.

BOLLING: . there's a big chance it's a jihad, it's also a religious war. He's doing it for religious reasons.


BOLLING: I didn't hear -- I could be wrong, but I didn't hear him say on any of this case or any accounts that, "I hate gay people."

WILLIAMS: Oh no, but he was anti-gay --

BOLLING: No, no, but deranged when he's killing people. Did you -- we do know that several occasions where he, he said he was a jihadist for ISIS; we know that for a fact, but for some reason, liberals, and you seem to be saying, well, don't listen to what he actually said. Here's what he probably meant.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. Not at all. I'm saying .

BOLLING: Well --

WILLIAMS: . listen to what he actually said .

BOLLING: And then what?

WILLIAMS: . and it's inconsistent and incoherent. And one moment, as you say, he repeatedly talks about ISIS, right? And he talks about this, they talks about Hezbollah, and you know they're different group.

BOLLING: But they're all terrorists.

PERINO: But they're all terrorists.

BOLLING: They're all terrorists.

PERINO: That's why --

BOLLING: It's the link.

PERINO: That's why I have to say -- you go back Kimberly to .


PERINO: . the global war on terror, which was -- criticized by people like President Obama during the campaign saying, "I'm not going to be the guy that just does this like broad blanket, broad brush of terrorism of this various groups," but as we start to -- it seems like take them apart, you realize they're actually all of a whole.

GUILFOYLE: They're woven together. They're interlocked. The goal is jihad, OK, and establishing the caliphate. This is what they're trying to do, is when he says he's pledging allegiance to ISIS and he acts it out and carries out. By the way, with a lot of efficiency, sadly and disgustingly, being able to execute 49 people in a place that he cased beforehand, that he was well prepared, that he, in fact, was someone who was very good with a weapon and able to do that kind of damage, and then had all the planning and forethought ahead of time, calling into the press saying it on 911 and telling us exactly why he was doing it. And for what reason and for what group, take him at his word and learn something or repeat the same mistakes again.

GUTFELD: You know -- yeah.


GUTFELD: You know Obama says something -- President Obama says something that's very interesting. He says that -- and he's right about these recent terror attacks. They were all U.S. citizens who performed these attacks, which proves the point that we are talking about. It's not about race, it's about doctrine. These are not, these are not Arab, you know, these are Muslims. This is a doctrine, it is not race. Therefore, it is not racist or bigotry to call this what this is, to link Islamism to daily misery around the world. President Obama will not be remembered fondly for this perspective. And I make this comparison before that the way tobacco companies denied the link between their product and cancer. The administration is denying the links between .


GUTFELD: . radical Islam and daily misery, the same way tobacco companies doing. Twenty years from now we'll go, do you remember President Obama denying that radical Islam was linked to the atrocities of the first decade and second decade of the 21st century?

GUILFOYLE: Not good for his legacy.

PERINO: Do you know in the left so they probably look at the right and say, do you -- in 20 years they'll be so embarrassed that they .


PERINO: . don't realize that their rhetoric was causing all of these terrorist attacks.

GUTFELD: Yes. And in 50 years we'll be embarrassed for eating meat.

GUILFOYLE: And ISIS is spreading .

GUTFELD: That's probably true.

GUILFOYLE: . like fixed armies. I mean, come on.


WILLIAMS: I don't think --

GUILFOYLE: It's like ISIS on steroids. Thanks to Obama.

WILLIAMS: I really interested in what you're saying for -- by the way, earlier, I don't think that anybody, left or right, denies terror for terrorist.


WILLIAMS: I do think that people are concerned, that if you --

BOLLING: What is this?

WILLIAMS: . and as Obama has said --

BOLLING: What is this?

WILLIAMS: What do you mean?

BOLLING: You're denying this is terror?

WILLIAMS: No, I'm not. What are you talking about?

BOLLING: You said it was --

GUILFOYLE: He said like he's confused --


WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?

BOLLING: . the anti-gay.

WILLIAMS: It's my family; your family was in this --

BOLLING: So you -- do you agree?

WILLIAMS: This a terrorist act.

BOLLING: But why you --

WILLIAMS: It's a terrorist act that happened a year ago in Charleston.

PERINO: But by a crazy person you hate today.

WILLIAMS: A terrorist act in (inaudible).


WILLIAMS: But you're asking about Islamic jihadist .

GUILFOYLE: But you're dismissing the intent of the perpetuator.

WILLIAMS: . extremism. And I'm saying to Greg, I agree, this is Islamic extremism, and we know President Obama has been concerned about condemning all of Islam .

BOLLING: Is it Islamic extremism now?

WILLIAMS: .right? And you, you say, oh, Islam is related directly to -- what's going on?

GUTFELD: Islamism.


GUTFELD: Just not Islam.

WILLIAMS: And I think it is extreme -- right. I think that's important distinction to make. That's all I was going to say.

BOLLING: Isn't that the point we've been making all along? It's not --

GUILFOYLE: That's correct.

BOLLING: It's not Islam, its radical Islamism.


BOLLING: And as a whole point .

WILLIAMS: I agree. I agree.

BOLLING: . they can't say that clearly, can say Islam and they can clearly say radical, they could never --

PERINO: Not in the same sentence.

WILLIAMS: It's just --

BOLLING: President Obama and Hillary Clinton up until recently .

WILLIAMS: This is what happened --

BOLLING: . would never say it together.

WILLIAMS: This is what happened last week when he said, "What's the magic to this crazy ."

BOLLING: Is this radical Islamism when you hear this attack?

WILLIAMS: This is -- it's no hierarchical structure.

BOLLING: Is it, yes or no?

WILLIAMS: This is a crazy .


WILLIAMS: . person who was responding to the ideology, Greg is talking about.

BOLLING: Well, thank you.


BOLLING: That's what we've been saying .

WILLIAMS: That's what I think.

BOLLING: . the whole segment.

WILLIAMS: That's what I think.

PERINO: I think --

BOLLING: All right, maybe I was --

PERINO: We may probably, actually agree a lot more, but we're like -- it's like --


PERINO: It's been like in eighth grade with my English teacher, we had to diagram all the sentences from "The Far Side" cartoons.


PERINO: And it's like -- it could like the longest "Far Side" cartoon.

GUTFELD: Yeah, it takes two people to agree with him in putting -- and put them in a boxing ring, you still have to hit each other.


BOLLING: They just can't bring up that they were gay when you had this discussion and not expect to be saying that you're hiding the truth of radical Islam being at the set -- root cause of this. You're basically saying, because they were gay, this guy maybe a gay hater and it was a hate crime .



PERINO: And then when you --

BOLLING: . and a terror attack.


PERINO: And then you use the (inaudible) of terrorist --

GUILFOYLE: Hiding truth from the LGBTQ community is shameful and disrespectful to the victims and to their families. Deal with that, DOJ.

PERINO: All right, we got to -- we got to run. Donald Trump is getting a lot of feedback on his campaign shakeup from yesterday. The head of the RNC sees the firing of his campaign manager as a positive, but some of our in- house political experts, disagree. We'll have that for you, next.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, Donald Trump gave his campaign manager the pink slip yesterday, but Corey Lewandowski has only glowing things to say about the man who fired him.


COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I have unbelievable respect from Mr. Trump, and he is going to be the next president of United States. I'm going to be there to support him, whether it's an internal position or it's an external position or I just tell my neighbors, make sure you vote. The fact that I was a part of it is so important to me. And because I'm not a part of it on the inside, my feelings haven't changed in 24 hours. I want him to fix our country. I'm going to do all the things he says he's going to do, because I know he can. And to go out and say negative things, which I don't believe is not the right thing to do.


GUILFOYLE: There are a lot of mixed reactions on whether the shakeup is a good sign or bad ones for the campaign. Here are Priebus and Huckabee.


REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRPERSON: When you look at the shift from a primary election over to the general election, this is sort of the professionalization that continues the pivot to the presidential. I think it's a good sign; I think for the campaign.

MIKE HUCKABEE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS: Donald Trump thought that there needed to be a new leadership. He made the change. You know what I would like to see, a president who would fire somebody when it was time to fire them.


GUILFOYLE: Charles Krauthammer and Brit Hume see it differently.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: When a baseball team is losing, as you know, they fire the manager. That, of course, is just a way of pretending to do something because it's the players, not the manager. This is nothing to do with the campaign manager.

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It is one thing to say, as Trump did, that he needs to move to a new phase in his campaign. And it is quite another for him to have fired outright, the guy who was with him so loyally from the jump (ph) and we defended repeatedly during previous ups and downs in the campaign, so it was a little puzzling.


GUILFOYLE: All right, so for all intents and purposes, Eric, the reports are that they still maintain good relationship. They were, you know, very close that Trump believed that Corey Lewandowski was very loyal to him like, you know, Trump said jump; Corey would say, how high? Meaning like, execute, get it done, et cetera, et cetera.

BOLLING: Yeah. I know, look, I thought it was --

GUILFOYLE: Good or bad sign?

BOLLING: Well, I think it's a good sign that immediately after Corey was let go, fired, who were let go. He hit, he hit the news circuit. He was all over the networks. He was talking -- he talks about Trump that still in a positive light and Donald Trump talks about Corey Lewandowski, as well. Corey brought Donald Trump to probably the most surprising, shocking primary victory in the history of politic -- in American politics. I would think -- no one saw this coming, Corey brought -- he was there for him.


BOLLING: I was surprised to see him let Corey go.


BOLLING: I thought maybe there was a way to give him a lesser role within the campaign, but maybe it was just, it was time to part.


BOLLING: Can I point out Reince Priebus, (inaudible) -- hats off to you Reince. Thank you for stepping up and saying, hey, we have an election to win. And he's saying Donald Trump needed to make this pivot, whether he did or not, I just like the fact that the RNC is now firmly behind Donald Trump to beat Hillary and that feels really good to me.

GUILFOYLE: What do you think about communication that you're coming out of this? Kind of like, you know the different sides, the different viewpoints, spending and then of course, comment on what Eric discussed.


PERINO: It's very amiable between Trump and Lewandowski, something you always see. And so, I think that both of them, like that's better than the rancor. It's like if you read the stories behind the scenes, about how the campaign staff or the family felt about Corey's participation, and it was disruptive and it was becoming a distraction. I think that they had to make the move. So he moves on and I actually think that nobody talks about this in like four days. I do think it's very curious on the timing -- I would have done it on Friday. I would not have let the weekend go through with the terrible poll numbers and -- the falling poll numbers. Some were not as bad from the safe like in Ohio, looks pretty good, at least from him right now. But -- then, last night, late last night, after a whole day of having this big pivot, 19 weeks before the general election, then they put out the fundraising numbers, which were a terrible news story for them. But I would have done with a flipped the whole thing. I would put out -- I would, you know what the fundraising numbers are going to be. You know how bad it's going to be. You fire Lewandowski after that. So it looks like there's a cause and effect and you move on, that's why you're making a pivot. Instead now we have a 48-hour story that should have been contained over the weekend. From a communications standpoint, that's what I would have done.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, depending -- a hundred percent, and I think that was a good kind of like flow to, like (inaudible) depending on whether or not that was going to happen. If there was a hundred percent transparent on Friday, that they were going to do that, because as everything shown, Trump wanted to hold on to Corey and did, you know.


GUTFELD: But that's why I am so confused, because there are so many people now they're saying it was a good decision, who weren't that way before. I mean, what the Huckabee? I mean, I love the governor, but he was defending Corey over his past actions, you know, involving the female reporter. And now it's like, this is a great decision. I love you, governor, but I got to hit you on that, that's -- because I love you. I'm --


GUILFOYLE: He's going to hit you harder.

GUTFELD: I know. He is bigger than me. But you know, you have to understand and this to lesson -- it's a lesson. It's a bigger lesson. The worst person in your life is somebody who indulges your impulses, whether it's in your relationships or it's in work. Corey was kind of like the Iago to Trump's Othello. You know --


GUTFELD: They had this insecurity of Othello, and you had this person whispering into his ear all the things that made him feel even more impulsive about his own emotions. And you got -- and I think his family, I think Trump's family was like, we got to get this, we got to separate these two, sooner rather than later.

GUILFOYLE: My God, I love Shakespeare.

GUTFELD: Yeah, and that's the only play I actually read, or maybe it was the --


GUTFELD: Maybe it was the cliff's notes.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, are we clear?

GUTFELD: The cliff's notes.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think --

GUILFOYLE: You would be perfect as Hamlet. Go ahead.

WILLIAMS: I think its more Kabuki.


WILLIAMS: You know what? Because I think what's happening right now is there was some kind of arrangement. I think when Trump hires people he makes them sign a statement that says .


WILLIAMS: . you cannot defame or criticize me once you're gone or there will be some penalty to pay. I think that's why the guy who said the wicked witch is dead. He had to go quickly because it had to be clear that Trump wasn't criticizing Lewandowski .


WILLIAMS: . and Lewandowski is obligated not to criticize Trump. So what you see on TV is really -- it's a play or Kabuki, as I say it. It has nothing to --

PERINO: It's better than the alternative.


WILLIAMS: Well, for him --

GUILFOYLE: Well, he ended up --


GUILFOYLE: He ended outside, dropped --

PERINO: I think for everybody at the Republican Party, it is better not to make it into a big knock-down, drag-out fight.

WILLIAMS: Right, but --

PERINO: It is better for everybody.


WILLIAMS: OK, but the fact is, what you have is a big knock-down, drag-out fight going on .

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but you know what, like --

WILLIAMS: . the fight between Manafort .

GUILFOYLE: Right, and Corey.

WILLIAMS: . and Lewandowski .

PERINO: I think that's the -- but they kept that --

WILLIAMS: And the family that Eric was talking about yesterday. And the other thing I would say is I think the real story, by the way, to come back to your point, Dana, is the money. Right now, Trump (inaudible) $1.3 million in the bank. Gee, Clinton has $42, and even Bernie Sanders, $ 9.2 million. So Sanders has more money than Trump. How is that possible?

BOLLING: Fifty congressmen who have more money in the bank than Donald Trump right now.

WILLIAMS: What's going on Eric?

BOLLING: Well, he didn't raise a lot of money. He'll be the first to tell you, he started raising money two weeks ago. You let the numbers --

WILLIAMS: But Eric --

GUILFOYLE: He didn't show any fundraisers.


BOLLING: Prior to him starting to raise money, he said he went out raised $12 million for the RNC this last weekend --


WILLIAMS: But you know that's a bad sign, right?

BOLLING: Money is important, though. It is .


BOLLING: . important because .


BOLLING: Dana talked about Ohio, to dead-even tie in Ohio, the latest number. The problem is Florida, Trump slipped. He needs to get Florida back in line, because Florida, he had at least --


BOLLING: But very importantly, let's not forget this one. Pennsylvania, they're one point away. They're 41-40 in Pennsylvania, a republican, 41-40, one point under at this point. I think that's -- that's thing.

PERINO: And it's pretty clear for other republicans had been .

BOLLING: That thing.

PERINO: . and they always lose it at the very, in the last month.

WILLIAMS: The history.

PERINO: Forty-three, Romney --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, you know why, because you got to be a closer.

PERINO: It's always the one that got away, that in Wisconsin.


GUTFELD: So Trump spent so much money on, on those hats. He literally --


GUTFELD: He literally spent himself into the red. And, but the thing is -- and he is so deep in, he's so deep financially in the hole .

GUILFOYLE: He found that.

GUTFELD: . that ironically, he can see China.


GUILFOYLE: Thank God we went over time for that, winner. All right, the gun control debate .

GUTFELD: It was good.

GUILFOYLE: . is the new law as the White House calls republicans cowards, Greg, for rejecting a series of gun measures last night. We'll take on that, Juan, when "The Five" returns. Stay with us.



BOLLING: A four new proposals to tighten our nation's gun laws didn't make it through the Senate late last night and it's all republicans' fault. But, of course, democrat Chris Murphy, who held that 15-hour filibuster says, quote, "We've got to make this clear, constant case that republicans have decided to sell weapons to ISIS. That's what they've decided to do." The White House piled on.


THOMAS ROBERTS, MSNBC HOST: Does the president specifically blame republicans for failure in acting and, in doing so, that allows ISIS to buy assault weapons?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, it's a pretty open and shut case. It is clear that republicans have refused to act on a common sense measure that would prevent individuals with suspected ties to terrorism from being able to buy a gun.


BOLLING: But, if Democrats are so concerned about gun control, why aren't they trying to do something about the skyrocketing gun violence in Chicago? And why were they so against New York City Stop-and-Frisk Program which took guns off the streets.

And here's to discuss, K.G. to discuss.


BOLLING: But, how egregious can these Democrats be to say that Republicans want to sell guns to terrorists.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. They said they're saying Republicans are enablers, co- conspirators to ISIS to help supply them with weaponry. I mean, that's what the thinking is here and the line of illogical, you know, statement that if someone said that. I mean, I can't believe that.

I mean, the problem is you have like you said, like liberal mayors like disaster de Blasio who stop, you know, canceled Stop-and-Frisk, because it's actually taking weapons off the streets. He's actually making minority communities and lower socioeconomic communities less safe.

And then you have this administration pushing, pushing, pushing gun control and stripping on the second amendment away, right to be able to further their political ideology and one of the sources of their big fundraising.

BOLLING: So you -- well, in politics is so gross, ugly at times. Gun control, right, Democrats and Republicans are very split. Democrats want more gun control, gun laws. Republicans say hold your guns, get your guns, right? True, fair?

WILLIAMS: You mean the Republicans politicians or Republican people?

BOLLING: Politicians.

WILLIAMS: The Republican voters, say they're for a lot of the gun control measures.

BOLLING: Just hear me up, hear me up.


BOLLING: Last night two of the gun measures were proposed, the bills were proposed by Republican Senators.

WILLIAM: Correct.

BOLLING: Guess what the Democrats did?


BOLLING: They voted it down.

WILLIAMS: Well, one of them would have made it easier .

BOLLING: Which should have increase gun control.

WILLIAMS: No, no. One of them would have made it easier for people who have mental illnesses to get guns. I mean that makes no sense, right?

And then that -- well, I think that's what Grassley's bill said and then you have Cornyn saying, "Well, you know what, it makes sense that if someone who is on the No-fly list tries to buy that we alert the authorities." That got voted down.

BOLLING: Well, you know, but that was an increase of what the current gun laws are. So, Dana, we have two Republican bills that would be increases to gun laws, Democrats, you know, the one that is the worst of all the Democrats? When Blumenthal said -- voted against, voted down the two Republican bills. He is in Connecticut, right? Newtown.


BOLLING: Any gun control -- if you're a true Democrat who hates guns, vote anything up, right?

PERINO: He would say -- well, he would say I voted against it because it wasn't strong enough and he's going to hold his vote until he has something that he feels is stronger and that would have prevented Newtown.

But he's probably not going to get that. I'll see what everybody got in this is a 30-second ad that they can run back in their districts or their states, that says, "We tried and the other side didn't meet us halfway, but we're trying to do something." It doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican, everybody gets to stay that now.

I actually think that it was so reprehensible what Murphy said about Republicans with blood on their hands. It's like trying to give guns to ISIS. I mean, you could -- if you wanted to, as a Republican you could say that Democrats feckless inaction on ISIS is actually their decision has been to foster the growth of ISIS, strengthen ISIS, encourage ISIS to do more activity all around the world, that Democrats. You could lay that at their feet. That's the equivalent of what they are saying.



BOLLING: And so very get in, but to show this quickly a little bit. But, again the "Daily News," we know exactly where they fall, they call it the Slaughter House. There's the Senate and you see the blood on the outside of the rotunda there.

GUTFELD: To your point you could argue that Islamophobia has enabled a lot of these home-made American-born terrorists to get away with murder and you could put -- lay that, that blame on a number of high up there people. Very high up there. OK.

GUILFOYLE: How high?

GUTFELD: You know how high. They never let a crisis go to waste. That's their strategy. They introduced a gun bill after attack on terror.

The reason why this is a huge error is because you replaced real action with symbolic action we knew nothing was going to be done. So instead, nothing was done. After 9/11, let's compare the progress, airports were turned into mini fortresses, air marshals were put on to planes. Cockpit doors were bolted.

Compare that to now, where we just blame and we vote. And then with nothing happens. So we don't even bother to harden the soft targets that need to be hardened. But we need to.

WILLIAMS: Are you making an argument that they should have done something?


WILLIAMS: I think they should have done something. But I think the root of it that we haven't discussed is that the Republican politicians are afraid of the NRA.

GUTFELD: No, I think the thing is you can actually vote on hard and soft targets. The consequence of our successes in the last 15 years is that terrorists now have to look for different targets so they continue to look for softer ones.


GUTFELD: We have to think about this as people and as politicians. How do you harden places like clubs? How do you introduce defense in areas where there's alcohol? These are all things we have to think about because right now if you're a bar, you're a soft target because you have alcohol.


BOLLING: And instead, you have two Democrat bills and two Republican bills, both sides voting down the other one's bills just for the sake of politics.

I think Dana is right. Every single one of those senators can go back and say, "We try to do something, but they said no," both sides.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that sort of (ph) before.

BOLLING: But equally is bad (ph).

GUILFOYLE: That's why it was before (ph) just do they show that they try. That, you know, that .

WILLIAMS: You watch -- you see who is going to run the big commercials on this? It's going to be the Democrats.

BOLLING: I don't know. If you're a Republican, I'll say we proposed two bills, and they said no.

WILLIAMS: Look, NRA is mad about just the proposals.

GUILFOYLE: (Inaudible) in 1994.

BOLLING: Donald Trump made some big news about running -- I'm sorry, about his running mate. Plus, new buzz about Hillary Clinton's V.P. pick. We got the inside scoop -- Juan does coming up next.


WILLIAMS: The presumptive nominees have a very important choice to make soon. They're going to have to pick a running mate. Here was Trump last night on the subject.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to announce before the convention in Cleveland? So you guys can be win .

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: At the convention I have a couple of people have said that they have decided that they didn't want. They would never ask.

I have people that want to be chosen so badly you have no idea. I want somebody that I can rely on for their judgment.

Hillary Clinton has poor judgment. I hope she picks a vice presidential candidate with good. But hopefully it won't matter, because she'll lose.


WILLIAMS: I lay out the odds on the veepstakes in a new column. It was on "The Hill" now it's on Please take a look.

I think Trump needs to pick someone who can help change the way the world sees him. Maybe Newt Gingrich? How about Condoleezza Rice?

As for Hillary, I thing she needs someone left of center who can help her win over those Sanders supporters. I like Senators such as Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown, Tim Kaine. How about them? Or perhaps she could make a splash with the first Latino V.P. pick. How about had Secretary Julian Castro?

Greg, your picks? If you -- you're replacing Laurent Bastien (ph), you're talking to Trump, you say, "Here is your best V.P. pick."

GUTFELD: Ideally I would to see him choose Allen West, because I think Allen West is a renegade and I like him. But if he really thinks outside the box, he should pick himself. Because just saying, "I can be president and V.P. at the same time. I'm going to save America one salary." And it's not covered in the constitution. I looked it up earlier this morning. It's not in the constitution.

For Hillary, if she picks Elizabeth Warren, I might quit my job and go work for Trump because I don't think I could handle her -- there, my head just exploded. But I really think Hillary should pick Monica Lewinsky because it's time to bury .


GUTFELD: Yes, time to bury the hatchet. And if she picks Monica Lewinsky she will win, because everybody would love to see that.

PERINO: Oh my God.

WILLIAM: You know that bury the hatchet could have been a joke. Anyway, as you were saying, who would you pick?

PERINO: Well, I don't have names, but I have theories. So I would say .

GUILFOYLE: It's going to be names.

PERINO: You want names.


PERINO: Maybe tomorrow. I think .

GUTFELD: Dierks Bentley?

PERINO: Dierks Bentley would be an amazing V.P.

GUTFELD: Of course he would.

PERINO: He would be, but maybe in the few years after his music career.

GUTFELD: You got that.

PERINO: I mean, because I don't want to like lose out on any music. Here's -- I think this is what they have to think about.


PERINO: Do you want a V.P. that expands the map so that it helps you get a state like Pennsylvania or Ohio or Florida, if that's going to be an important one for you? Or do you look for somebody who can actually govern? In the case of a situation where you need the vice president to take over, that's I think the most important thing.

I also think that he needs to find somebody who he does not consider a threat or a competitor. Therefore, I don't think that any of his former competitors in the primary would be up for consideration, maybe for cabinet positions, but not the vice presidential piece.

And the last thing I would think of, he's staked a lot of his campaign on nostalgia to make America great again. He has a huge generation, 83 million millennials and the future of the country is so important.

I think that he asks -- if he can find somebody that he agrees with, or that he complements him, I would try to look to somebody that gives you a point towards the future.

GUTFELD: Demi Lovato.

WILLIAMS: Would you take the job? Would you take the job?

PERINO: She's back in Instagram.

BOLLING: Yes, I would take that job. But it's not going to be offered. I think, you know, look, he have to win, right?

WILLIAMS: Right, right.

BOLLING: You know, game over if you don't win. The only way Trump wins, he has to have Ohio and Florida. That's a must. And then win Pennsylvania or Michigan. So if you have everything Romney won, you need Ohio and Florida. Forget it, you're done. And then you need Pennsylvania or Michigan.

That said with the recent polls, I think he's doing very well in Ohio, with where he is with -- let's call it hard-working, even union people as well.


BOLLING: So, I think Marco Rubio, if you really have to figure it out and .

WILLIAMS: But, here's the question.

BOLLING: (Inaudible) kind of stood (ph) very quickly on her side. So Rubio and as a goof, you know, Bernie Sanders, funny. On her side .

WILLIAMS: I don't think that's it.

BOLLING: I think Elizabeth Warren wins for her. I think it's a winner for her.

WILLIAMS: "Wall Street" doesn't.


BOLLING: But also, Bloomberg and Mark Cuban, either one of those would do.

GUILFOYLE: She's not going to want to pick Warren. She just wants her to steal her like thunder and I thought that's a need here, I'll say (ph).

As for Trump, it's going to come down to loyalty, who he trusts, who he likes. I don't think he's going to have somebody just want to hang around everyday because he is somebody .

GUTFELD: Amy Rosa (ph)?

GUILFOYLE: . come down with that. I think it would be great if he picked someone with very strong foreign policy and national security experience, someone that has good relationships.


GUILFOYLE: . the people on the House. Somebody like a General Flynn, somebody like a General Mattis way for it, I think so.

And right now I don't think he has a good-enough relationship whether Kasich and Rubio if that can be amended and put together gelled little more before the convention that might be a game-changer. But I think that was the direction they were going.

WILLIAMS: Terrific, Kimberly, I'd listen to you.

Ahead, one public university has just dropped its math requirement. Wait until you hear from Greg what they're considering replacing it with, next.


GUTFELD: At Wayne State University, the faculty committee just dropped its requirement in math while proposing mandatory classes in diversity. So as a science background becomes more necessary in this second Machine Age, they choose wrath over math -- that will help a job search. So, how are you with data flow analysis? I'm not up on that, but I know the difference between bisexual and bigender.

So why not compromise and goodbye math in diversity into one class? Imagine this word problem: Your local supermarket has cut prices by 9 percent. If a pork chop cost $2.99 before the reduction, how much might this offend a Native American transgender vegan?

It's absurd, but not if you place a higher value on identity than truth. After all, math is so intolerant. Why does two plus two have to equal four, anyway? Who's to say it can't be five? You're so numberist.

So here's another word problem: When you find yourself hurtling towards the edge of a cliff, do you step on the gas or hit the brakes? Today it seems like we're stepping on the gas, hurtling toward an abyss after centuries of enlightenment.

We now dismiss truth, looking instead to indulge fact-free emotion. Instead of learning to multiply, we strive to divide. The great thing about math: It's the only unifying thing in existence. It's universally true no matter what culture and it's hard on everyone. Maybe that's why they're replacing it with diversity training. Anyone can do that, which must comfort the faculty.

K.G. this is crazy.

GUILFOYLE: No, I don't like it too much. OK, so it seemed like for a weird second I was going to have to save you because it seems like you're choking on your (inaudible).

GUTFELD: I was getting so angry.

GUILFOYLE: And so besides that, why is it that you know the difference -- bigender and bisexual versus transgender.

GUTFELD: I could get into it here, but it would take .

GUILFOYLE: All right, never mind.

GUTFELD: . perhaps an hour.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, never mind. Don't do it.

GUTFELD: Bigender is somebody who believes they have two genders. Bisexual is that they have -- they are attracted to, you know, male and female.

GUILFOYLE: Versus transgender -- OK, whatever. We will talk about that .

GUTFELD: I answer it.

GUILFOYLE: The point is math is obviously important. Math is universal you have to be able to do at least basic math and I think you should ask some mastery of algebra, what you do to one side of the equation you do to the other side of the equation. It's very helpful in life (ph).

GUTFELD: That is .

GUILFOYLE: That's very good. Then when you get into stuff like geometry, trigonometry, not so helpful, but basic math, you've got to be able to do that, right? You got to be able to pay your taxes. You got to be able to manage your household. You got -- pay your student loans off, what?

GUTFELD: And Dana, fight the robots.


PERINO: I mean, you know, just coming. One of the things they say that they're dropping this requirement, you know, thinking about dropping it because it's already a requirement that you have a high school equivalency of math before you get to the college. That's what they're saying. And I'm saying it's a good idea necessarily, but I'm sure it has China shaking in their boots.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. Eric?

BOLLING: May I just wrap your (ph) time for one minute. I'll give you some advice, parents out there you got your kids growing up? This is what it is. I taught Eric chase math, just math, math, math. He knew his -- he knew his squares, 1-25 when he was like six years old.

He's applying for colleges, one of the things that you do is you write an essay. Whatever you want to talk about yourself, you write an essay. And I said, you know what, these schools are really into this diversity idea right now.

I suggested to him, what, with his every single essay he wrote had diversity as the basis for the topic of the essay.



BOLLING: He got into a school that they .


PERINO: Oh, we're so enlightened.

GUTFELD: No, no, that -- but that he's right there because .


GUTFELD: . it's the easiest thing to parent. It's the easiest thing to do. Shouldn't they be teaching commonality instead of diversity?

WILLIAMS: I'm off for it. But I think we do live in a more diverse society and you have to know how to deal with people of different cultures and you have to be willing to understand it's a global economy and it's a global world. So, I don't .

GUTFELD: That a different .

PERINO: But they can't substitute for math.

WILLIAMS: I don't understand why you would do away with math. They say if they have critical thinking, there's going to get it done. But it -- when you open the door to this kind of thing, it reads like something out of, you know, miseducation of America.

GUTFELD: Yeah. On that note, one more thing is up next.


PERINO: It's time for one thing and Kimberly's got a knife.

GUILFOYLE: Kimberly's royal news

GUTFELD: Tell me why you have a knife?

GUILFOYLE: Because I'm doing it right now, Greg.

Happy birthday Prince William. And we these beautiful delicious cakes, I only wish you were here to celebrate with me and everyone else except Greg, who isn't very nice about the Royals. So we're going to celebrate for you, you're a wonderful example of a fantastic Royal with your wife and your babies.

So I also want to say that I'll be on O'Reilly tonight, so if you could -- what? Show the what?

GUTFELD: Show the cake.

GUILFOYLE: They can see the cake. I'm going to be on O'Reilly tonight, so I hope you watch. And also, I'll be stopping by Lou Dobbs at 7:30.

I would also like to say a special shout-out to Leslie (ph), my neighbor. We miss you, we love you, come back real soon.

PERINO: OK, Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: Well, summer's finally here. Summer solstice is 6:34 p.m. on Monday and that was a rare event in the night sky. The full moon on the summer solstice, this is called the strawberry moon because, you know, when the sun is high this time of year, the moon is very low, so all the atmosphere changes the color. Some spectacular pictures here in New York City last night .

PERINO: Wow, that's beautiful.

WILLIAMS: of the full strawberry moon between the buildings. The last time this happened as full moon on the summer solstice is 1967, the next time, 2062. Beautiful shot. Go take a look. The moon is in full bloom.

PERINO: I'll be 90. Let's forward to (ph).


PERINO: Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: You know, my favorite royalty? Favorite royal? George Brett. Google George Brett and Bellagio.

All right, so I'm going to be on O'Reilly tonight as well, I just remember. Thanks Kimberly for that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, you're welcome. I do care. I'm giving you a good lead and you're (inaudible).

GUTFELD: All right, all right, I got a shut up. OK, fox go there /opinion, my article on Orlando is up there. It's pretty depressing, but worth a read. There, sold it.

PERINO: All right, Eric is next.

BOLLING: But, you are, right?

PERINO: Oh, OK. So I get to go. Eric is going to help me out because I'm talking sports, so bear with me.

This is a game between the Pirates and the San Francisco Giants. And it just gotten started last night when one of the players hit a foul line drives past third base. Take a look, OK.

BOLLING: Check it out.

PERINO: There was like a weird hop in that ball and look at -- so the ball girl she grabbed it and she ran up to the tarp and tract the ball into the ground (inaudible) whatever and she gave it to some girls. Isn't that sweet?

BOLLING: Oh, that's one impressive snag. One-handed, barehanded, hot-fly sauce (ph), check it out.

PERINO: And she -- does she get paid?

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah, she gets paid. In fact I went to the Pittsburgh Pirates game the other day with the President of Duquesne and let me tell you, I think it was that same ball girl. She's pretty impressive.

PERINO: Maybe we'll get to meet her.

GUILFOYLE: That must mean she's good-looking if she caught Juan's attention.

BOLLING: So I played to the Pirates.

WILLIAMS: You never made it to that stadium.

BOLLING: She spent more time in that stadium than I ever did.

PERINO: Do you have anything else?


BOLLING: There are easy show that just came out back in last week was the pilot called "Wrecked." It's a funny version of "Lost." Remember that show "Lost" that so popular?


BOLLING: This is a funny version. It's crazy, but a lot of fun.

PERINO: OK, I'm going to check that out because I don't like "Lost," but I could use the funny version, right?

BLOOGING: You should read the book.

PERINO: No, I can't fine it. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it got us. "Special Report" is next.

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