Former extremist gives his theory on Orlando shooting motive

Author Mubin Shaikh says on 'The Kelly File' that the massacre may have been an 'honor killing in reverse'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 17, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR:  Breaking tonight, new details on the text messages Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen was sending to his wife in the middle of his attack on the Pulse nightclub.   

Plus, we're now learning that surveillance cameras may have captured as it happened video of the worst U.S. terror attack since 9/11. Welcome to "The Kelly File." I'm Sandra Smith in for Megyn Kelly tonight.  

We already knew that Mateen and his wife Noor Salman were in communication at some point during his attack.  But today we learned a lot more about what exactly happened and what was said.  NBC quoting a source close to the family says it was Salman who texted her husband asking, "Where are you?" around 2:00 a.m.  Just as the attack was getting underway.  Mateen reportedly responded by asking, "Do you see what's happening?"  To which Salman apparently reportedly replied, "No."  

NBC's source says, Mateen then responded, quote, "I love you, babe."  And that seems to be the last of the texts.  NBC is now reporting that since then, both the gunman's wife and his father Seddique have been added to the government's no fly list as this investigation continues to unfold.  The FBI Director James Comey has traveled to Florida to thank the first responders who saved so many lives during Saturday's attack as his agency continues to expand its investigation.  

That's where we begin tonight with Fox Chief Intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge.  

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT:  An intelligence source confirms to FOX News that the FBI has recovered the surveillance video from inside the Pulse nightclub that captured the murder of 49 innocent people.  It shows the shooter Omar Mateen moving to the club and methodically cutting down his victims with his assault rifle apparently reloading at least once.  

Our contact said viewing the video was a soul destroying experience.  And there is more evidence tonight of significant premeditation, that Omar Mateen's plot took shape at least four or five weeks ago when he tried and failed to purchase body armor and bulk ammunition at this Florida gun store.  Fox News confirming that two months before the terrorist attack, Mateen signed papers turning over his share of a Florida house to relatives including a sister and brother-in-law.  The quitclaim deed transferred Mateen's interest in the Port St. Lucie house valued at more than $165,000 for just $10.  

While it may have been in the works for a while, combined with other evidence, it does suggest Mateen was getting his affairs in order because he planned to die in a suicide attack.  Mateen's wife Noor Salman signed the documents as a witness.  Separately, law enforcement sources report that there were text messages between Noor and her husband two hours into the massacre and he apparently asked if she had seen the news.  

And at one point, Salman said she loved him, she later called his cell several times but he didn't answer.  Separately a law enforcement source tell Fox News, they believe the wife has left Florida and is now with relatives.  For some context, it is not unusual after a series of interviews for the subject to be cut loose by the FBI so they can monitor where they go and who they contact -- Sandra.  

SMITH:  Catherine, thank you.

Joining me now, Mubin Shaikh, a former Islamic extremist turned undercover operative.  Mubin, thank you for joining us tonight.  


SMITH:  You went through the radicalization process.  You know it well. You got married to your wife during that process.  And you say she didn't even know?  Do you believe in this instance where we are learning that he had somewhat close ties with his family, according to what we've learned so far -- do you believe it's possible that his wife did not know that he planned to carry out this attack?

SHAIKH:  Well, it's an ongoing investigation, of course, and a lot more information is going to come out.  And my comment is purely speculation on the basis of what kind of information we are already seeing.  And I'm inclining towards she knew something was up.  We know for a fact that she purchased the ammunition with him.  We know she cased the nightclub with him.  We know she said to FBI that she tried to talk him out of it.  So she clearly had knowledge of the attack.   

SMITH:  There is conflicting stories there because we know she is saying that now she didn't have knowledge of the attack.  Before she said she tried to talk him out of that attack.  But a bit about yourself.  And you describe what led to your radicalization with an identity crisis growing up in Toronto at the age of 18, you decided to travel to India and Pakistan. And you had an encounter with the Taliban, and that radicalization process started.  

You went back to Canada.  You joined extremist groups.  Based on what you have seen so far, was this man acting in, you know, was he led by a terror group?  Or was he inspired by a terror group?  What conclusion can you draw based on having gone through this process yourself?

SHAIKH:  It seems that this individual was also undergoing some severe identity conflict issues.  I think it's pretty clear by now that he was, himself, a closet homosexual, couldn't deal with that identity, didn't know which, you know, which one to reconcile, should I be Muslim, can I be Muslim and also -- and my suggestion is that -- and this is what happened with me as well, where I became hyper religious to make up for that party life-style that I used to live.  And you know, to do away with that life- style.  And so in this case you have an extreme version of that where he is basically killing homosexuals because what he is doing is he is killing himself, his old identity.   

SMITH:  So, you actually have a theory, Mubin, that it was part of the plan-- and you say this is just one of your theories -- that it was a shame for his family that he was going through this, that he was identified -- identified to his family that he was gay and that this was some sort of plot?

SHAIKH:  It's possible.  I looked at -- you know, my job is to think about potential trajectories, what's possible,  what's likely, unless the expert investigators on -- I'll let the experts investigators who were on the ground, you know, tell you  the real deal, but I think maybe was like an honor killing in reverse.  So, basically, they said, look, you know, we know you are like this, but the only way we can cleanse our family of this shame is for you to go and kill a whole bunch of them.  

You know, the father is running for political office in Afghanistan.  And it would have looked really bad on him if it came out that his son was in fact gay.  It would have actually work for him if the son went off and killed a bunch of LGBT people, Americans, and you know, and then slapped on the ISIS label to make it, look, this is a great jihadi warrior.   

SMITH:  All right.  Mubin Shaikh, good to get your perspective on that. Thank you for joining us tonight.   

SHAIKH:  Thank you very much.   

SMITH:  With all of today's developments, one of the main questions folks are asking is, will this new trail of text messages help or hurt Omar Mateen's wife as this investigation continues.  

Michael Wildes is a former federal prosecutor and professor at the Cordozo School of Law.  Wendy Patrick is a prosecuting attorney who has prosecuted dozens of hate crimes.  Wendy, what do you make of this investigation so far and what we are learning about the involvement of his family, particularly his wife?

WENDY PATRICK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY:  Well, these text messages are very interesting, Sandra.  What woman doesn't know where her husband is in the middle of the night?  The question is, is this ignorance in the moment or does it reflect a greater ignorance of his activities? We know this man was a triple threat.  He was radicalized, armed and angry, whether the anger stemmed from identity or ideology, this trio of risk factors is something that we would expect that she would have known about it.  

But was it a secret of the relationship in a sense that he kept this secret identity from her.  Because remember, that's exactly what those grand jurors are going to be considering.  What did she know?  We know that they went to places together but was it casing or not?  We know that they went to the gun store together but did she know why they were buying ammunition. Those are the things that those grand jurors are going to be considering. Her level of knowledge.  

Michael, are you able to conclude anything from those text messages?  

MICHAEL WILDES, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR:  Very hard to see if it establishes the intent, the knowledge or the actions taken in furtherance of what would be leveled the conspiracy theory.  This unfortunately is a pattern of recent attacks.  We see the hostage taker in Paris of the Kosher Supermarket actually used his wife's cell phone to speak to collaborators. The Boston marathon widow, despite computers and photos, and bomb making materials, and the URL showing that she went on line to see whether or not she would get a reward after her husband martyred himself was not enough to level charges.  The charges here, the e-mails, the forensics of what the FBI and our federal prosecutors are going to glean, and the deliberate sense of propriety that they need to take in the wake of a violation into the LGBT community is so delicate.   

SMITH:  And Wendy, this transfer of property also that Catherine Herridge just laid out.  This share of the property that he owned to his sister and brother-in-law that he sold for -- it's been reported by Fox $10, or other outlets have reported $100.  But nonetheless, a very small amount.  What does this tell you?

PATRICK:  Well, it's more circumstantial evidence or at least it could be argued that way, that this man was headed toward martyrdom.  Now, we also know that he has made statements like that in the past.  So, what we are doing is we're looking at the aggregate of circumstances.  But when we are talking about charging the wife, it gets so much trickier.  Remember with all the evidence we had in the Boston marathon bombing case, Catherine Russell was never charged despite the fact that they were apparently making the bombs in her apartment.  And I have also got to say, I'm frankly quite surprised we have as much information as we do at this point.  Because typically these investigations are more private because nobody wants to compromise the integrity of an ongoing investigation.   

SMITH:  Well, you can't make the case Michael that we don't really know where she is.  They are telling us she is down in Mississippi.  We don't know her whereabouts, we don't know who is talking to her, what they are looking at.  We don't know real specifics other than they are looking at their electronic devices.  

WILDES:  You don't want to compromise the methods and the procedures as they collect all the intelligence.  The truth be told, I am shocked that she even went to see the FBI without an attorney.  Is that naivete?  Is that because she really had no idea what was going on?  Or maybe she did had representation and there is selective information being out there to make sure that the federal prosecutors that are intelligence sources can see, was this gentleman acting as a lone wolf?  Are there other confidants?

Are there other people that gave him material aid.  Bottom line here is that, this is an ongoing investigation.  This is an extraordinary violation into, you know, a sacred place.  You know, if this had been in the synagogue, if this had been in a church, it is no different than it was where young people as our president today said, gather.  And the violation is heartfelt.  And these deliberate, very mature processes has to go.  And one last word, you know, right now, we have to make sure that all of the equipment, the intelligence, the cell phones, and all of the material support that would go to these individuals and the people that would want to help people would be taken away.   

SMITH:  All right.  We have got to leave it right there.  Michael, Wendy, thank you.   

WILDES:  Pleasure.

PATRICK:  Thank you, Sandra.  

SMITH:  Also tonight, despite warning from the CIA, Obama administration is fast tracking the effort to bring more refugees from one of the worst terror hot spots in the world.  And "The Kelly File" uncovered some stunning numbers on this story.  

Two homeland security pros Colonel Schaeffer and Mike Balboni are next on the possible danger here.   


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The group is probably exploring a variety of means for infiltrating operatives into the West, including in refugee flows, smuggling routes, and legitimate methods of travel.  



SMITH:  Breaking tonight with events in Orlando raising new concerns about terror sympathizers in the U.S., the Senate subcommittee today released some new numbers getting a lot of attention.  Republicans report that the Obama administration is on track to issue over one million green cards to immigrants -- to migrants from Muslim majority countries, including terror hot spots like Pakistan, Yemen, and Syria.  

Fox News Doug McKelway reports tonight from Washington.  

DOUG MCKELWAY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Good evening, Sandra.  As you well know, Donald Trump has been taking tremendous fire for his pledge to suspend immigration from Muslim countries until, quote, "We know what's going on."  Well, statistics compiled by the Department of Homeland Security and released today by Senator Jeff Sessions show what's going on. The Obama administration issued over 832,000 green cards to Muslim majority countries in the first six years of his presidency.  

If by far, represents the fastest growing class of immigration to the U.S. That number does not include immigrants who come here on temporary work permits and who overstayed their permits.  And on that note, the administration removed only one percent of the aliens who overstayed their visas in 2015.  Removed only 2400 out of 482,000 who stayed too long.   


FRED FLEITZ, FORMER CIA ANALYST:  I wrote on last year that the Obama administration's claims that it takes a year to 18 months to vet Syrian refugees with terrorist ties would probably be lifted in 2016 the last year of the Obama presidency.  That has happened, and it's not a surprise on what Senator Sessions has reported.  

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, R-ALABAMA:  Most Muslims are not radical.  Most are not terrorists.  But quite a number are, and we need to understand that. And then we also have every right, the President of the United States has every right to bar entry to any group, any person, or class of persons who he deems to be a detriment to the United States.   


MCKELWAY:  A December 2015 Pew Research poll of Muslims in 39 countries asked whether Muslims wanted Sharia Law.  The -- responses very greatly, 99 percent of them in Afghanistan, 91 percent in Iraq and 84 percent in Pakistan supported official Sharia Law.  Pakistan and Iraq by the way ranked as the top two source countries for Muslim immigrating to the U.S. Pew found once here, Muslims are far more likely to lean Democrats 70 percent than Republican 11 percent.  

Sandra, back to you.

SMITH:  All right.  Doug, thank you.  This story is getting extra attention because the Obama administration announced this week that they would be speeding up the admissions process for Syrian refugees entering the U.S. In fact, the Fox News research team discovered that since the terrorist attacks on Sunday, more than 500 Syrian refugees have made their way to the states.  Five hundred in a week.  This news comes just a day after we heard this warning from CIA Director John Brennan.   


JOHN BRENNA, CIA DIRECTOR:  We judge that ISIL is training and attempting to deploy operatives for further attacks.  ISIL has a large cadre of Western fighters who could potentially serve as operatives for attacks in the West.  And the group is probably exploring a variety of means for infiltrating operatives into the West, including in refugee flows, smuggling routes, and legitimate methods of travel.   


SMITH:  And he is not the only top official sounding the alarm.  

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY:  We are not going to know a whole lot about the individual refugees that come forward from the U.N. High Commission on refugees for resettlement and vetting.  

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR:  My concern there is that there are certain gaps they don't want to talk about publicly in the data available to us.  

JAMES CLAPPER, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE:  I don't obviously put it past the likes of ISIL to infiltrate operatives among these refugees.  


SMITH:  Joining me now, retired Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer, he's a CIA trained intelligence operative now with the London Center and Policy Research.  And Michael Balboni, former New York State Homeland Security director and senior fellow at Homeland Security Policy Institute.  

Colonel, I'll start with you first.  You look at these numbers.  And they are staggering.  And after just seeing this horrific attack in the past week, we now hear that they are speeding up the process to bring more of these refugees in.

LT. COL. TONY SHAFFER (RET.), CIA TRAINED INTEL OPERATIVE:  Right.  To quote Yogi Berra, it's deja vu all over again.  Look, I've seen this movie. We did something similar to this before 9/11.  The hijackers were here legally.  So, we recognize that this is a method.  Now, John Brennan is saying, what we've been saying, I've been saying right here on this show for the past eight months.  ISIS is coming, ISIS is here.  So, the -- I'm getting Sandra is, we are talking about probably between 50 to 70 percent of individuals coming through the refugee stream.  

We know that they are going to be here legally.  They are going to use that method as well.  John Brennan has talked about that.  So, we do know.  This is beyond a shadow of a doubt that we know that they are coming and they are looking for individuals like the individual in Florida.  Look, you don't have to have someone come from a foreign country.  You can have operatives come here, recruit people locally and have them execute their mission here.  That's what we're going to see.  We are going to see more of it.   

SMITH:  You know, some people are going to say, Michael, Republicans will say, we want to stop this process at least now, at least when we are facing this crisis.  But some are more moderate and saying, let's at least slow the process or stop it just for a little while.  

MICHAEL BALBONI, FOUNDER, REDLAND STRATEGIES:  When you talk to folks who do security, who are on the front lines and police forces, they are shaking their heads saying, why would we be bringing folks from a part of the world where they are going to have the opportunity and exposure to potentially become radicalized or at least learn how to use munitions, used weapons and bring them here now when you can't vet them.  

They say that it's hard enough when you bring in different classes of immigrants to kind of know who is on the streets and what you are dealing with when you have an incident.  But to have this at this time when you can't vet them, it's really -- everyone is saying this is just the wrong way to do it.  Not right now.   

SMITH:  I mean, Colonel, we already know that they are overwhelmed by the vetting process.  That -- that -- it takes a long time to properly vet somebody.  So my question is, if we are going to continue to see this play out, despite anything that happens here on American soil, what kind of risk are we at here?

SHAFFER:  High risk.  I mean Doug said in his report opening up on this, look, all the places these people are coming from, they are radicalized. And by the way, one of the issues we talked about here and other places when they come here they set up enclaves which are not essentially, they do not become a part of American society.  They become separate from American society and they practice Sharia Law.  

Let me be clear on this.  Sharia Law is amicable to our constitution.  You cannot have a set of laws for some like women and gays and say you cannot be the way you are.  And some believe, you can live in the United States and actually follow the constitution.  So, we recognize that this is a threat not only to our principle way of life, the openness of our society, you actually have an individual coming in who are going to be willing to pick up on and do something to kill people.   

SMITH:  So, Colonel, you bring up the problem with lack of assimilation, which is different from what we have seen in the past.  The Migration Policy Institute, which is a non-partisan Think Tank in Washington looked back at all the Syrians that have been admitted to the U.S. since 2011. And none have been arrested on terror-related charges.  It's fair to at least point that out.   

SHAFFER:  Okay.  It's fair enough.  But how these things become the camouflage for other radicals to hide within.  They don't get turned in. This guy didn't get turned in.  The people in San Bernardino didn't get turned in.  That's our point.  If you don't have essentially a standard for everyone, you set up these enclaves where things can happen.  And that's what I'm saying.  We saw it in Europe.  Europe became essentially radicalized by the fact you had these enclaves.  That's why you had the attacks in France and in Belgium.  They essentially become separate and you use this become the camouflage for others to act out.  That's what we'll see here if we'll keep on.

SMITH:  Michael, there is a deadline, they have put out the number that they're going to -- it doesn't look like there is going to be any change on the part of the Obama administration, at least now.   

BALBONI:  They have made no attempt to really sell the rationale.  Why?  It's okay to do it now.  Why is this safe?  Why we have insisted that there is a vetting process for everybody else who comes into the country but we are going to take this group, which we understand the humanitarian nature of it.  But safety is so crucial, particularly now after San Bernardino and what happened in Florida.  The President should be explaining why now, why this way, why we are taking a step back from the rules that say, you better vet who is coming across, particularly coming from a war torn area.   

SMITH:  All right.  Thanks to both of you, Michael and Colonel, thanks for joining us tonight.  

The more we learn about Omar Mateen, the more it seems serious warning signs were missed.  But could it also be that some folks were too afraid to say anything if they saw something?  We'll talk about that with Pete Hegseth and Kirsten Powers.  


SMITH:  We know that terrorist Omar Mateen was investigated more than once, and a gun store even called the FBI on him in the weeks before the attack.  These missed opportunities to stop him have critics asking if political correctness or fear of retribution may have gotten in the way of national security.  

Here's former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee on last night's "Kelly File."


MIKE HUCKABEE, FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR:  There are more warning signs that are being given, but this administration, if it involves exposing someone who is Muslim, they just say, we can't talk about that because we don't want to be Islamaphobic.  Well, I don't want more dead people in America either.  And it's high time somebody gets a little bit honest with what we are facing and -- quit telling us, if see something, say something, because if you do, you are going to be in trouble for saying it.  And that's what is so frustrating about this.  


SMITH:  Is he right?  Pete Hegseth is an Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran. And Kirsten Powers is a "USA Today" columnist, both are Fox News contributors.  You just see on the couch on "Outnumbered."  Good to see you guys in the evening.  

Kirsten, do you think that we have come to that?  Are people afraid to say, anything in this country to alert the FBI when they see something because they may be labeled a bigot or racist?

KIRSTEN POWERS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, I don't think in this case that there is any evidence that that's what happened.  First of all, let's just start with the fact that I don't think the FBI is run by a bunch of liberal weenies.  Right?  I mean, this is not a place that is really known I think for a place that I think will be overly concerned with political correctness.  And so, I don't think they dropped their investigation because of that.  I think what is happening is that the FBI is -- this is a threat that has been changing and that they are looking probably at the wrong things.  The types of things that in the past would have led you to believe that this person wasn't a threat such as not having direct ties to terror organizations might -- and now not mean anything.

SMITH: So, Peter's (ph) point, you know, the director of the FBI is a fair guy, is a well-respected guy. When he came out in the wake of this attack and said he doesn't think that the FBI could have done anything differently having conducted those two investigations on Omar Mateen over a 10 months period. He said in every single one of those cases as we look back, somebody else -- somebody always says something that they should have told us and they didn't.

But Pete, in this case, didn't they? I mean, we have evidence that concerned co-workers reached out. Today we of course heard from the gun store owner down in Florida who spoke out and alerted the FBI when he tried-- when Omar Mateen tried to come in and buy that body armor.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, no. Political correctness stifles individuals from making common sense conclusions because for fear of being outed for being homophobic or bigoted. It's true. You saw it in San Bernardino. You see it in subtle places here around the Orlando attack.

And Kristen says the FBI is not run by liberal weenies, but the White House is, and the White House sets the term of how they conduct these investigations. There is a reason that we haven't been able to surveil mosques with informants since October of 2011, because the White House doesn't want the FBI to be perceived as solely focused on Muslims while every Muslim is not a terrorist.

But guess what, everyone who's been shooting up nightclubs or in San Bernardino, they were affiliated with Islam or radical Islam. So, you've got a problem that you should be narrowly focused on. But political correctness at the individual level where you won't say anything or at the institutional level at the White House where "hey, you just shouldn't be focusing on Muslims" has infiltrated our system. So, we handcuffed and we don't focus where we should be.

SMITH: Kirsten, I mean, what about that? I mean, we know that he attended a mosque that the suicide bomber most recently attended the same mosque, I mean, but we don't have anybody in there?

POWERS: Well, I just don't think there is literally a shred of evidence to suggest that this was dropped because of political correctness. So, while, you know, Pete may believe that and Governor Huckabee may believe that that's what happened, I mean, Comey has said the opposite.

HEGSETH: You don't think the White House is being political?

POWERS: He said -- he has said -- first of all, I don't think the White House was involved in this investigation. I don't think you have a shred of evidence that they were. And the point is that they've given us the reasons. Now, should they have maybe been using a different criteria? I think yes, that's probably true.

But based on the criteria that up to this point that they have used to determine whether someone is a terrorist, they determined that he wasn't and he hadn't committed a crime. I don't know how you keep an investigation going on somebody who you don't have any evidence to believe that they're going to commit a crime.

HEGSETH: Because -- because Kristen we are at war. We are at war. And the culture this administration has created is one of -- that these are criminal acts as opposed to acts of war...

POWERS:, you close the investigation as opposed to understanding, hey, if this person was radicalized and has said radical things then it's likely maybe, you know, a year or two from now as their experience shows us, they could be potentially a continual threat. So, I'm not poking the FBI a lot of wonderful people to do that.

SMITH: So Kirsten, you don't see any need to let our guard down a bit so that we aren't so fearful at being politically correct, sensitive to the point where we're jeopardizing our national security? You don't see any instances of that happening?

POWERS: I don't think, look, I think I certainly have criticized political correctness, you know. I mean, I wrote a whole book about it, basically.
But I'm saying in this instance I don't think that that's what led them -- first of all, they were investigating him. So, the idea that people didn't feel like they could say anything is not true. They were investigating him and what they have said is they decided that he said things that didn't seem like somebody who had been radicalized would say, for example, you know, he didn't even know the difference between Isis and Hezbollah.

I mean, that isn't somebody who is particularly radicalized in their book, right. So, I'm just saying that they need to use different criteria in determining and realizing that there are these people now that I think are sort of lone wolf types that can be inspired by Isis but not necessarily be working with them but are dangerous.

SMITH: All right, you've both made your points clear. Pete, Kirsten, thanks you.

HEGSETH: Thanks Amber.

POWERS: Thanks Amber.

SMITH: All right, so the question now, how are events in Florida affecting the 2016 race and the way people look at Trump and Clinton? Some answers next with David Wall, Allen Colmes and Rich Lowry. Stay tuned.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The bottom line is that Hillary supports policies that bring the threat of radical Islam into America.



SMITH: A new reaction tonight to Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton's plans to fight terrorist as we get closer to the political conventions. Terrorism raises questions of legacy for Hillary Clinton, who was of course once a part of the Obama Administration. The same administration that has weathered no less than eight terror attacks on U.S. interests across President Obama's two terms, but Clinton and Trump appear eager to make the voter's choice about them personally, swinging attacks at each other when it comes to Orlando.


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anti-Muslim rhetoric and threatening to ban the families and friends of Muslim Americans as well as millions of Muslim business people and tourists from entering our country hurts the vast majority of Muslims who love freedom and hate terror.

TRUMP: The bottom line is that Hillary supports policies that bring the threat of radical Islam into America.

CLINTON: Donald's words are especially nonsensical.

TRUMP: And believe me, Hillary Clinton, weak, ineffective.

CLINTON:  Not one of Donald Trump's reckless ideas would have saved a single life in Orlando.  It is just more evident that he is temperamentally unfit and totally unqualified to be commander in chief.  

TRUMP:  Hillary Clinton essentially wants to abolish the second amendment. It is under siege and we're going to protect it.


SMITH: Joining me now, David Wall, Trump's supporter and attorney, Allan Colmes, host of the "Allan Colmes Show" in Fox News Radio, and Rich Lowry is the editor of National Review and a Fox News contributor.  David, I'll start with you first.  This is -- we've seen the back and forth. You just saw it, between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton might even ramp up and have some more aggressive language like we've seen in recent days to try to combat Donald Trump and her supporters are going to tout she's got the experience.

DAVID WALL, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, you know, Barack Obama has painted himself into a corner regarding Islamic terrorism and Hillary Clinton frankly has leaped right over there with him. I mean, the reality is that they're both proposing in light of this horrible slaughter in Orlando of LGBT people by this Islamic terrorist, they're proposing a drastic acceleration of the immigration of people from a culture that frankly has a notable disdain toward gay people and often finds that slaughtering them or killing them is an effective way of dealing with their hatred of these family.

SMITH: Allan, is this going to be -- is this going to be tough for Hillary Clinton after these eight years is it going to be tough for her to defend his record on the campaign trail?

ALAN COLMES, FOX NEWS RADIO HOST: Absolutely not. The last horrible attack we had prior to the current run of attacks was 9/11 on Bush's watch. We've had 13 embassies and consulates hit while Bush was president. We were not safe then. We're not necessarily safe now. But you can't blame the president. And by the way, if you are going to blame the president for every event that ever takes place of a negative nature, the next time there's a Republican president, you're made into a hypocrite because are we going to blame the next Republican president whenever an act of terrorism takes place.

SMITH: All right, Rich, so terrorism is the top campaign issue several months out from the election. Who does this benefit?

RICH LOWRY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, Hillary is the candidate of the status quo. She's the candidate of the third Obama term and no matter what Allan says, it is a significant failure of President Obama that he has allowed Isis to establish a caliphate across Iraq and Syria that's made it much easier to inspire self-radicalizing Muslims in the west and here in this country.

That we have had two significant terror attacks in the last six months is a very big deal. And President Obama says oh, well it's not an extension threat. But he is underestimating how -- if we suffer another couple of nattacks like this, this society will feel under siege. And that's a very big deal.

SMITH: So David, does Trump have all the answers here.

WALL: Well he's the only one proposing a thorough and comprehensive vetting of these people before they come over, and whether that takes months or whether that takes years. When he assumes office that's what he is going to do. And you know something, it will protect American people.

And if it makes people overseas uncomfortable or angry at us because we're actually going to screen people before they enter our country, people from hot beds of Islamic terror then that's their problem. Too bad. He's looking out for Americans first and whoever wins this election -- I mean, there's no choice anymore. It's got to be Mr. Trump.

SMITH: All right Alan, Hillary Clinton in the last (ph) has been hesitant and reluctant to name the enemy. That has been the discussion.

COLMES: That's ridiculous. That's absurd. If you say the phrase it pays (ph), Islamic terrorism, all of a sudden Isis will uphold, "Oh, he said Islamic terrorism. We surrender." This is absurd because it didn't give -- by the way, George W. Bush also refused to call it Islamic terrorism. There is a different standard being applied to this president.

And you've got Trump, by the way lying about Hillary Clinton. She's not going to take away the second amendment, and you have Paul Ryan saying he would sue Donald Trump if he enacted a ban on Muslim immigration. So, the Speaker of the House, Republican, would sue Donald Trump, he said today.

SMITH: Rich, it's amazing in this election year, after two terms, eight years of President Obama in the White House, how often Alan Colmes is still talking about George W. Bush.


COLMES: I'm talking about Paul Ryan. I'm talking about Donald Trump lying about Hillary Clinton.

LOWRY: You also talk about Bush a lot. And look, Alan, the reason why you call it radical Islam it's actually true. And it's not the case that Bush never said that. He talked about Islamic extremism. Yesterday, he talked about Islamic radicalism. And Hillary Clinton very notably, under political pressure, and under pressure from Donald Trump, has changed her tune on this because it was just several months ago, Alan, when she was saying "oh, if you say radical Islam we'll alienate all of the Islamic word and it will be a disaster for us."

SMITH: All right, I want to get David back in here. David you look at the polling and the polling does show that there is hesitancy on the part of Republicans to say that Donald Trump has what it takes to fight terror with his lack of experience, many still point out.

WALL: That's not any poll I've ever seen, Sandra. His experience, his lack of being a politician is exactly what people love about him.

SMITH: Hillary Clinton wins them poll. Hillary Clinton wins because of her background.

WALL: He is not politically correct. He's fighting a war on terror in a way that is extremely politically incorrect, and that's what people love about him. He's going to offend people. He's going to make people upset but he's going to protect Americans. And you know what, when push comes to shove, who can argue with that? Come on! I mean, really.

SMITH: Okay. Difference between capability and the experience, Hillary Clinton does win as far as who has the experience to fight this. All right guys, good discussion. Thank you for joining us.



SMITH: All right, up next the media sounds off on the Orlando terror attack and Howie Kurtz is here with a roundup of the not so fair and balanced coverage.


SMITH: This week's horrific attack has drawn some pretty extreme reactions from all sides, and the mainstream media is no exception. Two of the more controversial moments came from the New York Daily News and the Boston Globe which both took the opportunity to blame the NRA rather than radical Islam. And then the The New York Times editorial board went so far as suggesting Republican bigotry is to blame for the attack. But one of the most dramatic claims this week came from Joy Behar on "The View," listen.


JOY BEHAR, "THE VIEW" HOST: The thing about Trump though is that -- he's the recruiter-in-chief. He is basically working with Isis to kill us. They are working together. Just remember what I'm saying.


SMITH: Wow, joining me now is Howard Kurtz, the host of "MediaBuzz" here on Fox, what did you make of that?

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS MEDIA BUZZ SHOW HOST: You know, it makes me really angry when pundits and politicians sees (ph) on a horrifying tragedy like what happened in Orlando to score cheap political points, to point fingers, Trump's the recruiter-in-chief, President Obama's fault. And it seems almost stuck on hyper speed and now, in the new politics of terror. So, this NRA, "Thanks, NRA" cover in the New York Daily News, it should become like a propaganda sheet even if you vehemently disagree with the NRA's policies on background checks or no-fly list, that is ugly stuff.

And that New York Times editorial, if I could just read a line or two, "Talking about the targeting of the gay nightclub in Orlando, hate crimes occur when bigotry is allowed to fester, driven too often by Republican politicians who see bigotry as something to exploit." That conflates two things, disagreements about gay rights legislation or policies and the senseless slaughter of 49 Americans.

SMITH: So why is this happening, Howie? I mean, what is changing? Why is this rhetoric out there? I mean, how different is this from what we have seen in the past because it seems like its quickly changing.

KURTZ: It's going on for a long time back during the Oklahoma City bombing, for example. President Clinton pointed a finger at Rush Limbaugh said he helped create a climate of intolerance that led to somebody like Timothy McVeigh. It just seems now like we don't even wait until all the people have been taken to the hospital. Has it led me to be fair and balance and point to a couple of examples on the right (ph).

I was disappointed when John McCain came out and said that he holds Barrack Obama personally responsible for the attack and then to his credit, to the senator's credit, he came out. He said I misspoke, I was talking about the president's national security policies which of course are fair game. And then, take a look at this video from Pat Robinson on the "The 700 Club." This is a film of presidential candidate talking about how the left loves both gays and Islam. Here's what Pat Robertson had to say.


PAT ROBINSON, "THE 700 CLUB" HOST: The left is having a dilemma of major proportions, and I think for those of us, you know, disagree with some of their policies are best saying you do is to sit on the sidelines and let them kill themselves.


KURTZL: Wow, in an exclusion (ph) broadcast network, a lady came out and said Robertson was speaking metaphorically not kill themselves. Wow, what a relief.

SMITH: Wow. I mean, the media reaction in general, The Boston Globe, New York Times, The New York Daily News has been all over the place, Howie, and you wonder how much of this -- why is it being allowed? Joy Behar, can you imagine if somebody had placed blame on President Obama in that way. The visceral reaction we would see from the left.

KURTZ: Yeah, I mean, what does all this do? What's the bottom line? It adds to polarization in our country. It doesn't do a thing to stop the problem of terror attacks and these mass shootings, and unfortunately for journalists and the rest of the country have become so routine that we now know the (inaudible) power shootings in places like Orlando and try to deal with this senseless tragedy and grief.

And there are always pieces of the puzzle, whether it's assault weapons, whether it's attacks on gays, whether it's terror, whether it's radicalized Muslims, and if everybody is going to point fingers and the media is exacerbating this, then I think we are doing a disservice to the country at a time when we should at least be asking tough questions, yes, but play a unifying role as well.

SMITH: And just so soon all of that. Howie, thank you.

KURTZ: So soon. Great to see you.

SMITH: We'll be right back with a heart-warming reunion in the wake of the tragedy in Orlando.  



ANGEL COLON, ORLANDO SHOOTING VICTIM: I'm looking up and some cops, which I wish I can remember his face or his name because to this day I'm grateful for him. He looks at me to make sure that I'm alive. He grabs my hand and he said, "This is the only way I can take you out." I'm like, please tell me because I'm in pain right now. I couldn't walk. I'm in pain. So he -- he starts to drag me out across the street to the Wendy's.


KELLY: That was one of the Orlando shooting victims remembering the moment an officer saved his life. At the time, he could not remember much about the man who dragged him to safety. But yesterday, the two men had an emotional reunion.


OMAR DELGADO, POLICE OFFICER: How are you doing, Angel?

COLON: I'm good, how are you?

DELGADO: Good, my name is Officer Omar Delgado. I was the one that helped you get out of harm's way, man. I need a big hug. Appreciate it.

COLON: So glad you came in.

DELGADO: So glad you're alive.

COLON: He came in and I just had a smile on and it was just happiness. I was just so happy. I've been wanting to see the man that took me out of that horrible place that was all just filled with craziness and I was happy. I was so happy.

DELGADO: Very, very emotional. Just knowing that I helped assisted saving that man's life. If it had been me that was -- you can't put into words. You know, you only get one life.


SMITH: Thanks to him, you only get one life. We wish all the survivors a speedy recovery at the end of this long week. Our thoughts are with those who lost loved ones on that terrible night. And also, a shout out to all the fathers out there. Happy Father's Day this weekend. Enjoy, thank you so much for watching "The Kelly File" tonight. I'm Sandra Smith. Let us know what you think about the show. Tweet us. Go on Facebook as well. I'm Sandra Smith. This is "The Kelly File."


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