Gorka: Gunman's sexuality doesn't matter; Orlando was terror
Insight from the chair of military theory at Marine Corps University
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 14, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld, it is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five".
We have a Fox News alert, bombshell new information about the wife of the Orlando terrorist, Noor Mateen admitted to investigators that she was well aware of her husband's plans to shoot up Pulse nightclub and did nothing to stop him. We have a ton of new information to analyze, so let's dig right in and we're going to start with Steve Harrigan who is in Orlando with the very latest developments. Steve.
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Eric, one focus on the federal investigators right now is on the activity of the killer in the days before this attack took place. They know that he purchased two weapons during that period, as well as ammunition and a holster. They also know that the killer carried out several surveillance missions scouting out potential attack sites. These included not only the gay nightclub, the Pulse, but also Walt Disney World properties as well. Investigators have all of his electronic devices, his cell phone, his laptop computer, as well as his camera. They are also studying his financial records to see who if anyone may have helped him in his murderous efforts. And increasingly, as you mentioned, attention is turning to the wife, Noor Mateen, she is the killer's second wife, 30-years-old. She's from California. Her parents are Palestinian immigrants. Right now, Fox News has learned from law enforcement sources that she knew of the attack, but did nothing to stop it. She may have accompanied him on at least one of those surveillance runs to the Pulse nightclub. She may have even received calls during the attack itself. So far, she has not been charged with any crime, but that could change quickly. Eric, back to you.
BOLLING: All right. Thank you, Steve. Joining us here in New York is Dr. Sebastian Gorka. He is the chair of the military theory, chair of military theory at the Marine Corps University and author of "Defeating Jihad." Dr. Gorka, first of all, great to have you on the show; with the new information that Steve just pointed out, number one that, that Omar Mateen may have been gay. He's on gay app called Jack'd. He's wife said she thought he was gay. He's even -- were understanding that has been asked out or asked out other male classmates in schools. How does that change things if he, in fact, was gay?
DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, "DEFEATING JIHAD" AUTHOR: I don't think it changes anything, because it's still an act of Jihadism. We have the latest report from Andy McCarthy, who put the blind sheikh away, very interesting report. The blind sheikh's bodyguard, Marcus Robinson changed his name to an Arabic name, became an imam and actually opened a mosque where this man practiced. There could be a much broader conspiracy behind this. What his sexual proclivities are, it seems to be a diversionary tactic. Did we talk about the sexual proclivities of Hitler or Stalin? This is man who said, "I am doing this for ISIS, for the caliphate." That's what matters.
BOLLING: I'll bring it around; KG, your thoughts?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah. I don't care who he wants to sleep with, goats for that matter, and yes, hyperbole intended. I mean, it doesn't matter. What we do know is that he was someone that was a radical Islamist, that he pledge allegiance to ISIS, and we know because he made calls that were significant while he was there at the crime scene. And whether he went to those clubs or not, he was very familiar with that particular situation, with the layout, casing, and that's what oftentimes in situations like this, you will go ahead so that you are one familiar to those around you there. Wait, who is this guy? We haven't seen him around. Everybody used to know who would hang out there. You have eye witnesses, specifically when this is from that evening, they were also there on other occasions; they saw him. This is no one that would cause alarm by being present in that particular location, you have him going multiple times. It sounds like someone who was well-prepared to do an execution, forget about mass shooting and took out 49 human lives.
BOLLING: What did you learn today, Juan?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I think that it does make a difference if he had this kind of conflict in his mind about being gay. Apparently, the first wife says she believes he had a gay inclination, that's what she told -- I believe a Brazilian news network. And then she said the FBI said, "Don't mention this. Don't -- let's hold back on that." Second thing she said was the father. Apparently, and the father is like a hard guy, you know, Afghan, thinks he's going to go back to Afghanistan and take over or something, but he --
GUILFOYLE: Or run for president.
WILLIAMS: He is the one who is that, apparently, confronted the son and the son was uncomfortable. The son -- I think there's a very conflicted, crazed individual. And so it makes a huge difference in our understanding as Americans of what took place in terms of the lone wolf action of a guy who has trouble with gay people who apparently, apparently with himself, with his own identity and taking his action.
GUILFOYLE: Or maybe bisexual.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: He said --
GORKA: Not good.
BOLLING: He said --
GORKA: Not good.
BOLLING: So towards lone wolf.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
BOLLING: There's no proof of lone wolf yet or not?
GORKA: No.
BOLLING: Go, anyone?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Oh, I just going to let Dr. Gorka --
(CROSSTALK)
GORKA: It's a phrase that's invented to make Americans stupid. There is no such thing as lone wolf. Whether it's the San Bernardino killers, whether it's the Fort Hood shooter, whether it's the Tsarnaev brothers, whether it's this man, there is a connective tissue between all of them, and it's the ideology of global Jihadism. What relevance is the sexual proclivity of the killer if the man says, "I am doing this for the caliph and Islam." That's the key. That's how we're going to stop the next guy.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GORKA: We're not going to stop the next guy by looking at what app he was using for his hook-ups. We're going to stop him to find -- if we find a Jihadi network.
BOLLING: Dana?
PERINO: Well, I wonder, maybe --
GUILFOYLE: Amen.
PERINO: I'm going to ask you questions and if the lone wolf phrase really comes from domestic terrorists like the Unabomber.
GORKA: Right.
PERINO: Which, maybe his name --
GORKA: A guy who has no conspiratorial background.
PERINO: Right. OK, so I think that --
GORKA: Right.
PERINO: That might be where there is confusion. I'm curious what you think about the FBI yesterday. And James Comey, who I think is usually very cautious and very measured. One of the things he said yesterday right away was, "There's nothing that the FBI would have done differently." Several hours later, we find out this more information about the wife, we might find out more, as you said, in terms of the mosque. Do you think the FBI kind of got too far out over its skis in saying that?
GORKA: Look, I have the pleasure and honor working with the FBI very closely for about six years now. Everybody in the FBI is a patriot .
PERINO: Yes.
GORKA: . and wants to protect the country. Every time we see a problem with uncovering Jihadism or missing it, it comes out of the DOJ, especially the civil rights division of the DOJ, that is the conduit of political correctness. The memos go from the White House .
PERINO: Yeah.
GORKA: . to DOJ and then they get rammed down the throat of the FBI. If the FBI dropped the ball in any sense, I would bet money. It is because .
PERINO: It's there.
GORKA: . the DOJ pressured them or said not interested.
PERINO: There's nothing here.
GORKA: Not interesting.
BOLLING: Greg?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, the one thing to point out is that, it's the first seven days of Ramadan.
GORKA: Yes.
GUTFELD: Attacks in Orlando, Paris, Damascus, Tel Aviv, Beirut.
GORKA: Yeah.
GUTFELD: That's bigger than homophobia. Homophobia is an integral part of the ideology. There's a great survey, a 2009 poll (inaudible) of (inaudible) Muslims, as how many thought homosexuality was acceptable? Zero percent.
BOLLING: Yeah.
PERINO: Right.
GUTFELD: I've never seen a poll that starts at zero percent. A hundred percent homosexuality not, but it's a part of an ideology as you say. But you know the phrase, I really hate? Hate. When everybody keeps talking about this climate of hate and how we have to fight hate, it's actually not about hate. These people don't -- they don't hate gays. They think killing gays is an act of compassion .
GORKA: Yes.
GUTFELD: . that is actually like --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: What do you call it, a carpooling ticket to get to -- there, faster.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GORKA: It's a mercy --
GUTFELD: It's a mercy killing.
GORKA: It's a mercy killing.
GUTFELD: This is - it's not about hate, it's an ideology. It's a desire it take over the world.
GUILFOYLE: Because --
WILLIAMS: Yeah, but so imagine --
GUILFOYLE: Their religion.
WILLIAMS: If you are gay and you're battling .
GUTFELD: Yup.
WILLIAMS: . gay issues and you are a Muslim. Can you imagine how conflicted and crazy, especially with your dad there. So contrary to what I'm hearing, I think, and in fact, you could then use what you're hearing from the Jihadist as a cover for your own madness.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my. Gosh.
WILLIAMS: An excuse to go out and start killing people.
GUTFELD: You sound like Dr. Phil.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah?
GUILFOYLE: Crazy conspiracy theory there. But why is there such a refusal to accept this for exactly what it is, that this was an act of radical Jihad carried out by someone that pledged allegiance to ISIS, that was very focused, prepared and actually executed his mission well.
BOLLING: Hold that thought, Juan, when you listen to the fiery remarks after his national security council meeting earlier, President Obama downplayed the threat of ISIS. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: ISIL's ranks are shrinking as well. Their morale is sinking. The flow of foreign fighters including from America to Syria and Iraq has plummeted. In fact, our intelligence community now assesses that the ranks of ISIL fighter has been reduced to the lowest levels in more than two and a half years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And then mark your calendar, folks. He's finally done it. President Obama finally called it radical Islamic terror. He said it four times in one speech today. He then went on to explain why he has not used the term radical Islam, until now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The main contribution of some of my friends on the other side of the aisle have made in the fight against ISIL, ids to criticize this administration, and me, for not using the phrase radical Islam. What exactly would using this label accomplish? Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away. This is a political distraction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Now Dr. Gorka, the president seemed genuinely mad today. He was moved. He was shaking. You could see the anger in his face, but it seemed like he was mad at Trump and the republicans rather than the terrorists.
GORKA: He's not the only one who's mad. Words matter. If a patient walks into a clinic and he's got tuberculosis and we say no, no, no, he's got the cold. Take some aspirins, what's going to happen to that TB patient? He's going to die.
GUILFOYLE: Die.
GORKA: Words matter. Why are we trying to score political points? The fact is I'd like to give some different data. Forget about ISIS recruits in the Middle East. This man who did this attack is the 103rd ISIS terrorist suspect killed in America, or captured in the last two years, 103 -- not Jihadists, just ISIS. Two thousand and fifteen, a report from Duke, 2015 saw the highest incidents of Jihadi plots on U.S. territories since 9/11. The president can't admit his strategy has failed.
WILLIAMS: Oh come on. Let me just say --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Let me just say quickly, Obama has been terrific, resolute on this point. And he makes the key point and very effective speech to say, what's the magic in this phrase? In fact, a hundred twenty senior ISIS leaders killed by this President, international coalition form.
GORKA: I would day that.
WILLIAMS: Obama, it seems to me has destroyed ISIS command and control, half the land that ISIS was holding in Iraq, even in Syria, pushed back. So, we've seen all this progress, and yet people want to focus on the language as if that somehow was going to cure the problem.
BOLLING: Can I just --
GUTFELD: Remember, he got -- he was dragged, kicking and screaming to fight ISIS. Remember --
GUILFOYLE: Because it was JV.
GUTFELD: It was the JV squad.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: So he can't -- I mean you can say, oh now he's doing a great job.
GORKA: Yes.
GUTFELD: He was doing a great job because there were people out there criticizing him. The fact is if Obama doesn't separate Islamism from Islam, then neither will Donald Trump and you cannot criticize Donald Trump for doing that.
BOLLING: Can I just talk about Juan's number here? You're right. President Obama did take credit. He patted himself back on a hundred and twenty ISIS leaders that were killed since August 2014.
WILLIAMS: Right, right.
BOLLING: Twenty-two months ago, about five a month.
WILLIAMS: OK.
BOLLING: In the last seven months alone there been more than that. A hundred and thirty in Paris, 14 in San Bernardino, 32 in Brussels, 49 in Orlando, about 32 a month. ISIS clearly defeating President Obama on his strategy to defeat them; they're winning.
WILLIAMS: How is that?
GUILFOYLE: He just explained it.
WILLIAMS: That doesn't make any sense.
BOLLING: Six times more people are killed --
GORKA: Are killed.
WILLIAMS: What you're talking about --
BOLLING: Than we are killing.
WILLIAMS: What you're talking about --
BOLLING: Six times more.
WILLIAMS: What we're talking about here and the president has said this today is you've got an ideology that's being spread and we're trying to fight the ideology even on this show we've discussed.
GUTFELD: No we can't --
(CROSSTALK)
GORKA: But we're not allowed to say what it is.
WILLIAMS: What are you talking? He says what it is every day.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: But he won't.
GORKA: He wants to use body bags as a metric of victory.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GORKA: That was stupid during Vietnam. And you know what, it's not smart today. It's not body bags, because you can kill one HVT, one high-value target. If 15 Jihadists volunteered to replace him, what does that UAV strike become, a recruiting tool for the bad guys.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GORKA: You will be honest about what the threat is and delegitimize the brand of Jihad.
BOLLING: And Dana?
PERINO: Should I say, I think the peaceful Muslims, of which 99 percent of them are in the world, can tell the difference between -- they know what it means radical Islamic terrorism.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: They understand what that means. It's not like if you say, because I'm an Italian American I'm offended when you talk about the mafia. I mean, it's like --
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: They -- I think that we're not giving .
GUILFOYLE: They're victims of that, too.
PERINO: . people enough credit for recognizing the threats for what they are. But I also degree that actions speak louder than words and I think that the spread of ISIS, especially into Libya .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: . is something that they have to account for.
BOLLING: Ninety-nine percent?
PERINO: I don't know.
BOLLING: One percent of the Muslims in the world that comes to 16 --
PERINO: I know, but I'm just --
(LAUGHTER)
PERINO: I'm making up a number.
BOLLING: Just make throw a number of that.
GORKA: Right.
BOLLING: Throw a number.
GUILFOYLE: I just want to echo what Dr. Gorka is saying, that words do matter. And something you've also said before that the political correctness has no place in the threat assessment equation. Meaning, you cannot sit there and say I'm worried about sending in. We're part of the problem because we're using language that is upsetting, that disturbs peaceful loving Muslims, the peaceful religion of Islam. No. Look at what they stand for, look at what they're saying and look at their actions. We are not better off than when President Obama demurely decided to devote himself to the fight against ISIS. We are in a worse position and they are moving more towards, being able to achieve a caliphate.
GORKA: Right.
GUILFOYLE: That is the problem. They've spread in far more countries than ever before with other groups that spread Jihad .
GORKA: Right.
GUILFOYLE: . around the world, also joining in it with them.
WILLIAMS: I think we are fighting right now, and we've increased intelligence sharing in places like Jordan, Morocco, Kimberly. And it's the result of not saying that we're in a fight against all of Islam, and that all Muslims are a problem.
GORKA: Nobody is saying that.
WILLIAMS: But we are, in fact .
GORKA: Nobody.
GUILFOYLE: Who said that?
WILLIAMS: . creating more of a powerful -- and we have taken out so much of their leadership .
GUILFOYLE: Oh, please.
WILLIAMS: . that that makes it more difficult for them to --
GUILFOYLE: Another place like Boko Haram joining them like --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: We can compromise on this. It's about creating a sense of unity. He is replacing unity with politics. These are .
GORKA: Right.
GUTFELD: . political ideas that he is behind, and that is breaking this country apart. A very simple unifying thing, we're all fighting terror.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: We're all fighting radical Islam -- done.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: ISIS versus us.
BOLLING: On that note, I got to go. They wrap me a couple of times already.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Dr. Gorka is going to stay right here with us.
GUILFOYLE: Good.
BOLLING: Coming up. In the wake of --
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: KG.
GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't want him to wait.
BOLLING: In the wake of the Orlando .
(LAUGHTER)
GORKA: I look after you.
BOLLING: . terror attack. Should we start surveilling mosques again? Donald Trump thinks so, but he's being met by strong resistance from President Obama and his rival, Hillary Clinton. That heated debate is straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: Yesterday, Donald Trump ignited a firestorm when he reiterated his call from mosques surveillance and a temporary ban on Muslims immigrating to United States. Back in May, he said that ban was merely a suggestion, but a much different tone yesterday in the wake of the Orlando Terror attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have to be very strong in terms of looking at the mosque, you know, which is a lot of people say, oh, we don't want to do that. We don't want to do that. We're beyond that.
I called for a ban after San Bernardino, and it was met with great scorn and anger. Many are saying that I was right to do so. And although the pause is temporary, we must find out what is going on. We have to do it. It will be lifted -- this ban -- when and as a nation we're in a position to properly and perfectly screen these people coming into our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But should we have more surveillance on mosques? Here are concerns one member of the mosque Mateen attended, now has following these events.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" HOST: Do you worry that there could be others?
BEDAR BAKHT, FORT PIERCE MOSQUES MEMBER: Yes, I do worry very much. And then from now on I will be keeping an eye on our youth, talking to them more frequently. I feel the people who talk more, they're more easier to understand, as you know what they're saying, where they're coming from. And if you hear something bad, and you can always report it. But if people are quiet, those are the ones who are --
BURNETT: Like Omar?
BAKHT: Like Omar, he was very quiet. Those are the people who are a dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Back with us is "Defeating Jihad" author, Dr. Sebastian Gorka. I have to ask only thing. So, that gentleman just said from now on he's going to monitor their own mosque. I mean --
GORKA: Yeah.
PERINO: At what point do we have to have say, thank you very much, but we are going to be doing this as well. And maybe we shouldn't announce that we're going to do some surveillance.
GORKA: It's not good to do that in advance.
PERINO: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Maybe we should all stop talking about it.
GORKA: Let me share with you a recent ISIS story from America. A man was recruited by is who lived in New York, upstate New York. And he went mosque-shopping. This is what we see with Jihadist, they want to go more deeper and deeper down the trail with Jihad. He shopped seven mosques and was kicked out of six of them. Nobody, none of those mosque leaders told the FBI. Now, there are two ways to get radicalized, through the internet or through a radical imam. Are we just going to ignore half of the places where somebody could get recruited? Whether it's Richard Reid, the Shoe Bomber, whether it's the, all the terrorists we've seen in the mainland U.S. in the last 15 years. It is a combination of the internet and radical imams. Where are the radical imams to be found, at the baseball games or to be found in a mosque?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
GORKA: The idea that we just close our eyes to this is things means that again, somebody is going to miss the signals, because they do not tell the authorities when somebody walks down the pathway of Jihad.
PERINO: Eric, you have something?
BOLLING: Yeah. Help us clear this up, doctor. There's a lot of debate, discussion on Sharia law. Does Sharia -- does a Koran say to kill the infidel, and the infidel is defined as gay, a sinner or anyone who doesn't pledge allegiance to Islam?
GORKA: I tell all Americans, whether you wear uniform or not carry a badge, after 9/11 all Americans should have a Koran, because so much is span about Islam. Why didn't you go the primary source? Why didn't you leaf through to Chapter 9 verse 29? Why didn't leaf through to Chapter 9 verse 405, which says, "After the holy month had passed, hunt down the infidel, besiege them with every strategy of war, unless they convert, kill them." Now, you can't pass that. It's true, the Koran has very nice specific things to say about infidels, but it has both. You can find whatever you want in it.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GORKA: It is not -- just cannot say this is a simply a religion of peace and this is all about frustrated homoerotic fantasies that being suppressed by people living in Orlando. No, it is people who are following a pathway that has been established.
WILLIAMS: I think you give him too much credit, especially to this 29-year- old who is, to me, mentally ill, and clearly, struggling with sexual issues, sexuality. I mean, to me the bigger point here is when you have something like people talking about surveillance of churches -- hmm, I don't think that's very American. I think republicans in the Congress have been pointing out today, they are not for that. They don't want people going into Catholic churches, they don't -- what's that pope up to? No. What we want to do is go after people who we can see there's evidence of terrorism and terrorist activities. That's what they want.
BOLLING: Like the radical Islam.
GUILFOYLE: So you say -- right.
BOLLING: Can I just say one thing?
WILLIAMS: I think that we have the protection of religion --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Can I respond to this?
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: This is what drives me crazy, OK? Apology to biker gangs everywhere, but imagine if there were chapters of a biker gang, let's say it was Hells Angels all throughout the country and there was trouble coming from those gangs, that no one would have a problem surveilling them. So we're giving an exemption based on a religion, which to me is absurd.
GUILFOYLE: Absurd.
GUTFELD: I don't care if it's Islam. I don't care if it's Mormons, scientology, Catholicism, if there is something emanating from certain chapters that are dangerous .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: . you receive no special exemption because you're a religion. That's baloney, because that enables anybody to start a religion in order to create some, some kind of criminal activity. It's wrong. It's nuts.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and this is well within the laws. I mean, you can go, when you have evidence and leads like this, probable cause to believe that criminal activities is occurring and that individuals there are part of that, that's the obligation of law enforcement to go ahead and our intelligence community to make us safe. When you have over and over again, evidence, as Dr. Gorka said, of these radical imams, you know, getting these guys to do this, perform these acts of Jihad, whether or not they're self-radicalized on the internet or not. You have to chase that down. Why wouldn't we, because we're too afraid to offend them? I don't think the pope is calling for Jihad and killing the infidel, is he? But if they were doing it in the Catholic Church or anywhere else, then they should go there to exclude and give an exemption in the face of stark, compelling evidence is really inappropriate. And that's what this administration is doing, and 49 more bodies on his count now.
GORKA: If the Ku Klux Klan in the '50s that were lynching Americans said, let's have our meetings in a church, would the FBI said, oops, switch off the microphones. I mean, religion is not a shield for the bad guys.
GUTFELD: Do you remember how celebrities on Twitter and people in the media love to go after Westboro, a Christian Church of like 13 members who stand out and do horrible things in front of funerals of veterans have not killed anybody. But people love to go after Westboro, they love too. But then you find out in mosques, they are people that are cultivating a very pernicious ideology that ultimately ends in people's deaths, and we're like, whoa!
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Because it's our church, because we have a constitution that protects religious freedom .
GUTFELD: We, we should have --
WILLIAMS: . and we run away from --
GUTFELD: We should be protecting --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: We should be surveilling.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say, when you extend this to banning Muslims from coming into the country, as Trump has suggested, you start to understand this is about persecution, not about detection.
GUTFELD: This is not -- I'm not talking about banning.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: I'm talking about us being persecuted.
GUILFOYLE: Right, exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: But he was born in America.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I do think that is -- there's kind of an umbrella issue. Can I ask you one last question really quickly?
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: On imams. One of the things President Obama says is that, talk about the banning Muslims or talking about radical Islamism, is hurting our chances of having Muslims --
GORKA: Right.
PERINO: Peaceful Muslims .
GORKA: Right.
PERINO: . actually work with us and be allies.
GORKA: Yeah.
PERINO: Is that true?
GORKA: No.
PERINO: OK.
GORKA: I worked very closely with our Muslim allies, especially the Jordanians and Egyptians. When we say this isn't about religion, we are undermining our Muslim allies. When the president of Egypt said this is about the hijacking of Islam; when the king of Jordan says, we are losing the war of Islam to the bad guys, and we say, no, these are not the droids you're looking for. It's nothing to do with religion. We are actually endangering our fellow Muslim allies.
GUILFOYLE: It's 100 percent sure. And I wish Mateen walked into a biker barn .
GORKA: Right.
GUILFOYLE: . and he would have got some. Let me tell you.
PERINO: All right. Dr. Gorka, thank you so much for joining us.
GUILFOYLE: It's true.
GORKA: With the pleasure. Thank you.
PERINO: And you're (inaudible). Directly ahead, fireworks on Capitol Hill as the gun control debate reach as a fever pitch. Find out why some democratic lawmakers protested during a moment of silence for the Orlando victims, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I believe that meaningful responsible gun control is part of homeland security. And it's something we have to address.
We need to do something to minimize the opportunities for terrorists to get a gun in this country.
I thought, frankly, after Sandy Hook, where you have schoolchildren murdered in a classroom, that maybe finally this was going to be the tipping point. And we were not able to move the needle in Congress, unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Gun control has erupted into a national hot topic following Sunday's terror attack, and on Capitol Hill it has reached a fever pitch. Take a look at this video. Some Democrats walked out of the House chamber during a moment of silence for the Orlando victims yesterday. The protest was an attempt to call attention to gun control legislation.
It got even more intense later as House speaker Paul Ryan tried to restore order to the floor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PAUL RYAN, R-WIS., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Order, order!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: So disturbing.
OK, so when you see this, how can you not just give these victims a moment of silence? Why do you have to politicize it when families are suffering? You are supposed to be people we look up to that represent our nation, represent all of us as individuals.
And yet, Greg, they do this to make a point, a little bit of showmanship. It's very much like a circus that I would never want to go back to.
GUTFELD: Let's have the discussion on gun control. In fact, we always have it. It's -- we have it. But let's have it when it's untethered to an evil that requires an un -- an undivided unified attention.
We have to talk about unity and about a fight against Islamism. And introducing gun control into that is just a diversion.
Do guns encourage Islamism? No. Do they protect against it? Yes. It's like having a bunch of rabid bears loose in your neighborhood. And instead of talking about shooting the bears, you start going after the guns. It makes no sense.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. It's a complete distraction of focus, Eric. And yes, there's you know a time and a place that is appropriate. And they certainly have enough time in their hands to be able to do that debate and argue the merits back and forth. I'm all for that. But now?
BOLLING: The gun debate will go on, and it has gone on. It will be politicized by both sides. And this is the thing that we talk about after every mass shooting. There's a time for the political debate on guns. We'll do that.
This is a moment of silence, and it was disrespectful for those Democrats to get up during the moment of silence, disrupt the moment of silence.
GUILFOYLE: Terrible.
BOLLING: And I hope the LGBT community realizes which group got up and wasn't there for the moment of silence and which group stayed. The Republicans stayed. And there's a group of Democrats that disrupted.
And I'm telling you, there's a change in the needle. The needle is moving with the LGBT community, saying, "Hey, these Republicans may have our back a little bit more than we thought they did."
GUILFOYLE: Yes, and I think that's a fair assessment, Dana.
PERINO: Let me comment on something else. One of the things that Congress is actually doing this week is moving forward Congressman Tim Murphy's Bill on treating mental health, which is -- when we actually talk about gun control, and it's not related to a jihadist terrorist attack and it's related to, for example, Sandy Hook, everyone can agree that mental health is one of the issues that our government should try to do a lot more and better policy on in order to help families who are dealing with this.
So there actually is a Bill moving this week. The Congress is actually doing something.
So there are things that they could do to show that they are being productive, and they stepped all over that.
GUILFOYLE: It's such a missed opportunity, Juan. I mean, what do you have to say in defense of this lack of civility and respect of victims?
WILLIAMS: I don't know how you get to that point, K.G. Because the fact is the politics here is that Speaker Ryan will not take up anything to do with gun control. It's highly politicized.
BOLLING: This is about terror.
WILLIAMS: No, it's not. This is about gun control and so much so that the police commissioner of our great city, New York City, said basically you can't expect anything from this Congress.
BOLLING: It was one minute.
WILLIAMS: And not -- no, no, no. You miss the point.
BOLLING: They couldn't hold out for one minute?
GUILFOYLE: Sixty seconds.
WILLIAMS: Hypocrisy -- hypocrisy lasts longer than a minute...
GUILFOYLE: Wow.
WILLIAMS: ... when you can't get the speaker to have a fair discussion.
Greg, who is exactly diametrically opposed to me on this point, said let's have the discussion. Let's...
GUILFOYLE: Not then. He's not saying to do it then.
WILLIAMS: They don't want to bring it up in Congress, and Congress is too cowardly to act. They were cowardly after Newtown, cowardly after Columbine, and they're cowardly now.
PERINO: On which -- on which point? But on which point, specifically?
WILLIAMS: Specifically on closing loopholes and preventing someone like this guy, who is being watched by the FBI, on a -- he can go in there and get a gun? That's crazy. Why should he be able to get a gun?
GUILFOYLE: And then he should be on a delayed list.
BOLLING: Have the debate. Have the debate. Sixty seconds. After the moment of silence.
WILLIAMS: No. They've been having the debate...
BOLLING: Then if you're not getting it, then get up and walk out.
WILLIAMS: They've been having -- Eric, they've been having moments of silence forever.
GUILFOYLE: You're making excuses for horrible behavior.
BOLLING: Juan, what did that do?
WILLIAMS: And meanwhile -- let me just tell you something. Here's a quote from Bill Bratton I just love. He said basically these people are prostituting themselves in front of the NRA. That's the police commissioner. He's no right-wing, no left-wing.
GUTFELD: Who works -- who works for de Blasio.
You know what this is? It is about timing. It's like a tsunami is coming, and you're debating evacuating. You could do -- you talk about dealing with it after you're out of there.
GUILFOYLE: All right. And now we're out of here.
Up next, some media outlets like Rolling Stone have glamourized terrorists in the past. They will pay. Will they do the same with this guy? Greg has some thoughts and advice, next. Stay with us.
GUTFELD: I have no advice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: After the Boston bombing, Rolling Stone put one of the fiends on their cover -- a sick attempt to shock the public while romanticizing evil. They portrayed the guy as a sweet, cool kid like a member of a boy band.
Will they do the same with this latest scum?
This is key. Each terrorist or mass murderer is consumed by the past work of similar fiends. When cops find their lair, it's often filled with news clippings about attacks that they wish to surpass.
It was true with the Newton fiend, who wanted to beat the Norway fiend. And the Orlando creep gave props to the Boston bile.
And why not? He made Rolling Stone. Infamy is everything.
Here's a weird, weird fact: after highly-publicized suicides, the number of people who die in commercial airline crashes goes up by 1,000 percent. Car deaths jump, too.
Experts point to the copycat effect. These accidents were actually murder-suicides, limited to areas where there was heavy media exposure. It blows your mind.
It's why the less a fiend is seen, the better. Why be the PR arm for ISIS? Evil is a contagion, and we must deny that spread, for the spotlight attracts ghouls who find reward in ghoulish action.
If you're a loser, obscurity pales in comparison to being known forever, even if it means killing dozens of innocents. Hell, you might end up on the cover of Rolling Stone.
In Islam, you know, it's forbidden to show Mohammed's likeness. Let's do the same to his most vile followers.
Eric, I was -- I'm always torn...
BOLLING: Yes.
GUTFELD: ... between the attention given to spectacle, because I always feel it's glamorous. I mean, how do we deal with that?
BOLLING: I -- I'm going to take the other side on this. And I know this is not a popular place to be. But I think showing the names and the faces and the locations that these people perpetrate this evil is important, because I think you can make some ties. People can say, "Hey, I knew that guy, or I saw that guy and he was friends with this other person over here. So maybe you want to take a look at this one.
I just think we're in an age where more information is better. We need to expose these terror cells. And the best way to do it -- if you hide his face and you hide his likeness and his name, I'm afraid we're not going to get all of the information we want.
WILLIAMS: I don't think Greg is saying that. I think he's saying don't romanticize this guy. Don't put him on the cover of Rolling Stone and make him a rock star.
BOLLING: Well, I totally agree with that. But a lot of people are calling for not even mentioning his name or his picture at all.
WILLIAMS: No, I think -- look, we're a legitimate news organization, but after a point, I think everybody knows, and the point is don't celebrate this jerk. You know?
BOLLING: We would all agree to that.
GUILFOYLE: Right. Like, for example, Israel, you know, they don't say their names. They focus on the act specifically and what they are trying to achieve. So they have a different approach to it. But they also don't even use words like "lone wolves" or talk about "Oh, is this a hate crime?" Because they realistically identify the threat -- the threat posed and then deal with it effectively. And that's what we can learn from them.
The problem is, is that groups like ISIS and everything, even though we don't put their guy's face or name up on here, social media.
GUTFELD: Right.
GUILFOYLE: I mean groups, that are committing worldwide radical jihad are using sites like Twitter, like Instagram. And they become quite adept at it. So somebody tell me that we're going to tell them over at Facebook to, like, lock down, shut down all of their accounts.
It's like whack-a-mole. As soon as you try and get one down, another one goes up. And they're quite skilled at doing it, and that's the problem. That's part of the whole radicalization where people can do it. You know, it's like online course. You can teach yourself.
GUTFELD: Right. Dana.
PERINO: Well, I was thinking about how ISIS then uses this propaganda. Right? So ISIS grows in strength and in number.
GUTFELD: Even if they don't do it. Even if -- they take credit after this guy.
PERINO: They take credit. Sort of like -- I mean, we still don't know about the Egyptian Air [SIC] flight and what happened there.
But if they are seen by their followers, who are usually these loners -- at least the most recent one in terms of San Bernardino and Mateen -- then their attractiveness grows.
And so I can see your -- the point of, at least, certainly not putting them on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine.
GUTFELD: Yes. I just think it's mind-blowing. And it's just the -- how people repeat acts -- whether it's suicide or murder -- is amazing to me. It is like a contagious thing.
All right. Coming up, in the midst of tragedy, an outpouring of support for Orlando, including local Chick-Fil-A employees, who stepped up to help others. The heartwarming details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: Stories of heroism, strength, solidarity all emerging in the wake of the horrific terror attack in Florida.
Here's just one example of many. Popular fast food chain Chick-Fil-A, known for being closed on Sundays, well, they opened some of its Orlando- area restaurants this past Sunday just hours after the rampage, cooking and delivering food and drinks for those standing in line to donate blood and to law enforcement at the deadly scene.
So this is a situation, Dana, where back in 2012, Chick-Fil-A was targeted by the left-wing and especially the gay community for the fact that, Dan Cathy, the owner, was saying he supported traditional marriage. It was interpreted as a slight towards the gay community. And now here they are, reaching out towards people in the aftermath of a shooting at a gay club.
PERINO: And as I understand it, Chick-Fil-A did not announce this.
WILLIAMS: Not at all.
PERINO: They didn't, like, put out a PR, press release, and like -- and take out an ad. Whereas when they were targeted, there were mayors across the country, including in Chicago, I think maybe here, where they held press conferences to announce how great they were for boycotting Chick-Fil- A from coming into their cities.
WILLIAMS: So Greg, you know what -- you know what Dan Cathy said? Well, he understands that back then in 2012, it may have led to some confusion, because people said, "You know what, if you're an anti-gay group now, we're going to identify with Chick-Fil-A." But that's not what he intended. He didn't intend to somehow alienate segments of his own market.
GUTFELD: Well, you know what you're seeing? You're seeing a contrast between two worlds: the real world, which is what's happening there, and Twitter. If there was Twitter after Pearl Harbor or after 9/11, our unity would have been equally compromised, the way it is now every kind of thing.
GUILFOYLE: Great point.
GUTFELD: The first response is always the worst. When you're on Twitter, it is emotional, and it is not factual. Suddenly, when you're in the real world, and you're watching people trying to help other people, it doesn't matter. Twitter doesn't exist.
I really think Twitter incentivizes division by -- by people looking for retweets and attention.
WILLIAMS: So now, now the contrary position comes from people who say, yes, but the Chick-Fil-A Foundation gives money to groups that, you know, proselytize and say, "We're -- don't engage in homosexual behavior, activities." Is that fair?
BOLLING: And also groups that do. Chick-Fil-A donated to -- food to the Iowa City Pride Festival picnic and whatnot.
So Dan Cathy has always run his business the way he runs his life. And for that I respect him. He's not -- he's not hypocritical for a dollar. I respect that. That's why he's closed on Sunday. He's very religious. The day of rest. He closes on Sunday. But he opened up to help out in this situation.
Big fan of what he's doing. I think he's -- he's clearly reaching out to the LGB -- LGBT community.
GUILFOYLE: I think you're absolutely right. You know, their actions speak very loud. And maybe the mayors of Chicago and New York and San Francisco may not want them there, but this is a family and a business that's been quite charitable in times of need and stress and great suffering, like we saw what happened in Orlando. They're to be commended, and their chicken is delicious.
WILLIAMS: And you know what else? I mean, it seems to me is that Chick- Fil-A says, "We're all about making a dollar, but at the same time, we're about helping people and standing up with people in need." They really did that this past week.
GUILFOYLE: Which is Christian.
WILLIAMS: "One More Thing," up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: OK. Time for "One More Thing." K.G. starts.
GUILFOYLE: We want to take a moment to honor the memory of former U.S. senator and two-term Ohio governor, George Voinovich, who passed away in his sleep at his home in Cleveland on Sunday. He was 79.
The Republican's remarkable career spanned over 40 years, all the while earning the respect and admiration of members of both parties. Ohio Governor John Kasich released a statement, saying he was a unifier who thought outside the box, never gave up and worked hard for the ideas he believed in up until the very end of his life.
His funeral is set for Friday, and he will be deeply missed.
BOLLING: Thank you, K.G.
All right. Greg, you're up.
GUTFELD: It's time for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I like these people!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: What?
GUTFELD: I know, it's not very often I do this. But JetBlue, a great -- it's a great company. They are offering free airfare to the family members of the Orlando massacre victims. And any time -- anyone who has gone through a bereavement in which they've got to get somewhere, this is actually kind of a big deal, because this is the one thing that you can't quite process and do on your own sometimes. And when somebody makes it a little bit easier for you, it's actually a big deal.
PERINO: And an unexpected expense.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: Wonderful act of kindness.
BOLLING: OK. So there's a lot of misinformation circulating out there of what an assault weapon is and what it isn't. And AR-15 is not an assault weapon. An assault weapon toggles between one shot, one pull on the trigger and many shots with one pull on the trigger. The AR-15 is one shot, one pull. That said, my good friends at Independent Journal pointed this clip out to me today. Check it out. Representative Grayson. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALAN GRAYSON, D-FLA.: If he were who he were -- who he was, and he was not able to buy a weapon that shoots off 700 rounds in a minute, a lot of those people would still be alive. That's exactly right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
BOLLING: Congressman Grayson, you cannot pull 700 rounds off in one minute. I challenge you to do that. If you do, I will eat red meat or do something crazy like that. But I guarantee you can't do that. Not automatic.
OK. Go ahead, Dana.
PERINO: OK. I had a little bit of a lighter touch today for my "One More Thing." Everyone ever watch a TED talk here? The TED talks? I kind of like watching them, but I really like the parody of it. Here's a satirical program called "This is That," done by CBC Radio. It's hilarious. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know that I'm a thought leader, because I'm wearing a blazer, I have glasses, and I've just done this with my hands.
Let's look at a picture of the planet for no reason. What happens if I put some words over it? How about a number? What if I pose a question? By doing this, I've now made you think that I know what I'm talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: You can check out the full clip. We'll put it up on our Facebook page. It's worth -- it's worth the four minutes.
BOLLING: What's a TED talk?
PERINO: TED talks?
GUTFELD: TED talks?
PERINO: I'll show you later. It's like a thought leader. Thought leaders go and -- I'll show you tonight on the way home. I'll put it on your iPhone.
BOLLING: Thank you.
WILLIAMS: OK. So on Friday, at the invitation of Muhammed Ali's family, I attended his memorial service in Louisville, Kentucky. It was, of course, a sad occasion, but I offered my condolences to the Ali family. Here I am with Ali's daughter, Rasheda.
But you know what? What's surprising to me, it was also a festive occasion all through the city. There you see on the front of a bus, just going, destination, "Ali -- The Greatest."
And as you can see, here's my son, Raffi, and I at the Ali Center, in one of the boxing rings. By the way, donations should be sent to the Ali Center. That's what he wanted.
And then I got to reconnect with the boxing community. There I am with Sugar Ray Leonard, Evander Holyfield. There's Raffi with Holyfield. And there I am also with the Assassin, Bernard Hopkins.
Really, Ali family had an amazing event, really one for the record books, just tremendous, an honor to Ali.
WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you, Juan.
That's it. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" coming up next.
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