Terror in Orlando: Worst attack on American soil since 9/11

Analysis and reaction on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 13, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They started shooting. And that was when we knew something was wrong, and everybody just dropped to the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People started screaming and shots rang out. It's not a show anymore. You got to do what you have to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can't be real. It's like the movies.

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: This is a federal terrorism investigation led by the FBI.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This is an example of the kind of home grown extremism that all of us have been so concerned about for a very long time.

COMEY: There are strong indications of radicalization by this killer, and a potential inspiration by foreign terrorist organizations. We are also going to look at our own work to see whether there is something we should have done differently. So far, the honest answer is I don't think so. If you see something, tell us, so we can look at it. In every single one of our cases as we look back, somebody always sees something they should have told us and they didn't.


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. This is The Five. I'm Dana Perino. And that was FBI director James Comey addressing the media earlier on Omar Mateen, the 29-year-old Islamic terrorist who murdered 49 people in a nightclub yesterday and injured dozens more, some gravely. Several are still fighting for their life tonight. Comey said Mateen called 911 during the massacre and told the dispatcher he was killing for ISIS. He also pledged solidarity with the Boston bombers. There is a lot to get to tonight. We begin by going live to the site of the unspeakable horror. America's Newsroom host Bill Hemmer joins us now from Orlando, Florida. And, Bill, I know you have so many observances today, but could you start with the FBI director's press conference and what you took away from that?

BILL HEMMER, AMERICA'S NEWSROOM HOST: I sure will. (Inaudible) was the most interesting bit of information all day, Dana, frankly. It's been five hours since we have had a briefing. Normally, in circumstances like these, you get a briefing every three hours. That has not been the case. There was one locally at 7:00 a.m., then the FBI director came out a little bit after 12 noon Eastern Time. What he described and confirmed is that this gunman went inside at 2:00 a.m. Sunday morning, had engaged with a security guard, still got inside the nightclub, and then, called 911 and hung up. Then he called again and pledged his loyalty to ISIS and the ISIS leader. It was then that they did a reverse 911 call and called him back inside the nightclub, Dana. And that's when he mentioned the Boston bombers. He also mentioned an American suicide bomber who blew himself up in Syria from the state of Florida, mentioned him on the phone call. And James Comey concluded by saying they are highly confident he was radicalized. Clearly, all the indications, all evidence would suggest that. I think the other thing he said was quite interesting, remember, we are still in the early days of this, literally, and in the early hours you can make an argument as well. Think of how much more we learned about Nidal Hasan after the weeks went by at Fort Hood. Think what we learned about San Bernardino as the weeks went by there as well. Think about what we learned in Paris and Brussels after that. Think about the Boston bombers, at the marathon, as the days went by and the weeks passed, how much unfolded about the investigation, what they're up to, the travel they had overseas. Today, we learned he went to Saudi Arabia twice, 2011 and 2012. FBI says he checked out. He was OK. But he was interviewed in 2013 for making these comments at work and everybody thought it was strange. Interviewed again in 2014 because of his relationship with this American who blew himself up in Syria, he was on the terror watch list in 2014, and then was removed. So, he did not come out of nowhere. Now, it's possible he went dark, hide his media social blueprint, lied low, didn't want to give the authorities any reason to think he was up to anything. But as I say in the early hours of this investigation, Director Comey said this, I don't see anything that we would do differently. I wonder in a day, or week, or a month, if that statement stands out. We shall see.

PERINO: That's a strong statement to make in the early stages of an investigation, and probably one that might have to be revisited. Kimberly, we're going to take it around the table. Kimberly Guilfoyle will go next.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Bill, as you are going through the chronology, the time line, where people are trying to figure out the FBI to determine at what point radicalization could have happened, did he self-radical self-radicalize, was it online or was it during some of the visits he made, we have information he visited Saudi Arabia in March of 2011 and in 2012. Do you have more information on that and if the FBI is planning to send agents there to discuss and meet with anybody he may have had contact with?

HEMMER: The local FBI earlier today, at 7:00 in the morning said that a great amount of electronic evidence is now being gathered. They also believe he acted alone. They don't believe he -- they don't believe he acted in concert yet with anyone else, and they don't believe he was commanded from overseas. We'll see if those facts stay the way they are. But, Kimberly, the fact they talked about the great amount of electronic evidence, you have to think that this investigation right now is in hyper- speed. There is a line. Just so you know, the nightclub is behind me about 400 yards. It is block after block after block, Kimberly, of sheriff's vans, investigative units, we saw the DEA here, loads of FBI agents. They are going to that crime scene, they're trying to put it together the best they can in these early stages. But this is active. It's ongoing. They blocked out Orange Avenue. It's been that way now for the past day and a half.

PERINO: Julie Roginsky is next.

JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: Hi, Bill. You mentioned that the director of FBI said that in fact, he had mentioned the Syrian suicide bomber, who was radicalized, right before he shot up the club. And then, James Comey basically goes ahead and says he wouldn't have done anything differently. They had investigated him for that alleged tie. Anymore color on that? Is there a tie? Was this something that he said just to say it or was it there actually any evidence he had been radicalized or attached with the Syrian suicide bomber?

HEMMER: At the moment, I can't say factually what the answer is, Julie. What the Director Comey said next was our job is very difficult. It's like a needle in a haystack. And he's right about that. They have a very difficult job. There are hundreds or as he said today, thousands of investigations ongoing all the time. It is difficult. But it's our job to get it right because they only have to be right one time. This is really tough stuff. Julie, if you think about over the past nine years, think about the battle in Sauder City, the neighborhood in East Baghdad, think about the American lives that we put into that battle. You can argue outside of Afghanistan, this whole strain of Islamic radicalism was contained. I mean, after a tremendous effort on behalf of General Petraeus and others there, building a wall in the middle of Baghdad that divides the city and isolate the cancer. And now, you take the lid off that pot nine years later, and what you have is you got Syria, you got Western Iraq, Afghanistan continues. As General Jack Keane will tell you, you got 7,000 ISIS fighters in Libya today, which could very well be the next hotspot. If you are the president, what is your calculation? I can go in to Raqqah and destroy them, but where do I have to stop? Do I have to go to Libya next? And the point of that comment is that this is how far behind we have gotten as a country in nine years.

PERINO: Eric Bolling.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: You mentioned the needle in the haystack. You also mentioned today. I was wondering why that would be a needle in a haystack when you have co-workers complaining about this guy being radical. You have an ex-wife complaining that he was dangerous. You have friends from earlier in high school saying that he jumped up and cheered the World Trade Center bombings saying America deserves it. If that was a needle in a haystack, we are actually screwed. That's just a point of thought. I'm wondering also what it takes to be taken off the FBI watch list, the terror watch list, where you can do something like this. Here is my question. Do you think President Obama is premature by saying - - was premature today saying that there is apparently no ties to a greater plot so far. I mean, we are only 48 to 52 hours outside of this thing happening.

HEMMER: Eric, the president said it and Director Comey said it as well. And we don't know what all the loose ends -- we don't know how they are going to fill in just yet. I'm urging caution on this, because we don't really know where it goes. I mean, yeah, a needle in a haystack, but certainly, there were signs. And I agree with you on that. But then you wonder how much the FBI can survey, how many people at one time, what are our resources, and how are they directed, and what can they keep up with? What is essentially overwhelming, who knows? Maybe they are hot on another potential story here in Orlando or Port St. Lucie, that we frankly have no information about. That could be potentially much greater in it's deadliness. It's a possibility. But the fact they got this electronic footprint, and they're going through this, tells me that he just did not go in a corner and lie down. It tells me that he was sending out information. How do you, as an investigator, find that and keep an eye on it? Yes, it's your job, how much is out there? I'm just trying to get my head around this and try to understand the scope of it, because Director Comey is a good man. He wants to keep this country safe. He doesn't want this garbage happening in downtown Atlanta, this filth.


HEMMER: He makes that argument. So we will see how these points fill in. I think at the moment.


BOLLING: I'm not pointing a finger at an FBI failure or anything like that. I'm trying to point out we could be so overwhelmed, if this guy is a needle in a haystack with all these indications and all these signs, the ones that are needles in the haystack are the ones without these red flags flying all over the place. We could in be in danger, that's all.

PERINO: And also, I would say.

BOLLING: Loud and clear.


PERINO: And also I would say this actually probably is the greater plot which is to utilize social media to get ISIS activated all over the country and targeting these like the ones at the Pulse nightclub. Gutfeld has a question.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, Bill, mainly about the media, my problem with terror is that our job and ISIS' aims overlap. ISIS is here via proxy, whether they are lone wolves or not, they are here. But they use the media to expand their brand, so hostage incidents kind of make ISIS bigger than they really are by appearances and therefore, their size. Actually, it becomes a reality. We are terrified of them. And I think about this and I understand that there is research that shows when you publicize suicides and homicides, suicides, there's an immediate copy cat effect. These murderous acts increase and they spread like a contagion. And I keep thinking to myself, and I know that we have to do our jobs, but can the media stop providing ISIS with free PR and stop showing this over and over again? This face does not need to be seen. Shouldn't the media somehow examine how they report this?

HEMMER: I think the American public is scared and rightfully so. I think they are angry and rightfully so. I think they feel deeply for the people here in Orlando, and Boston, and San Bernardino, and Chattanooga and Fort Hood, deeply. And I understand that, and I think you do as well. We have an obligation, Greg, to figure out what the story is.


GUTFELD: I agree.

HEMMER: And get as many facts as we can. That's why we are here. Because there are millions of viewers all over the country, Greg, trying to figure out, you know, why did this happen and how did we not catch it beforehand and could we have caught it?


HEMMER: And the emotions run rampant down here. But I will tell you, I saw the community in Fort Hood, I saw the community in Boston, and you are going to see this community in Orlando, too, showing their American strength through all this. But we, as a media, we have a job to do. And, yes, perhaps the attention goes away from him for a time, once we get nor answers. But, right now, what was he up to? He was 29 years old, he was born in New York, how the hell did he get to this point?

GUTFELD: I just don't want to see his (inaudible) face.

PERINO: We might end it there.

HEMMER: I can understand that.

PERINO: All right, Bill, thank you. You are going to be on air much later in the evening.

HEMMER: Thank you, Dana.

PERINO: Thank you so much. More to come on "The Five." Is political correctness putting America in grave danger? A former colleague of the shooter says he raised concerns with his employer about Mateen, but those concerns were ignored because Mateen was Muslim. You are going to hear from him next.



NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: . in the Obama administration told me they have to be really, really nice about the Muslim brotherhood and care because otherwise, they won't get any cooperation out of the Muslim community. The tone is so bad when people see somebody who hates America as they did in San Bernardino, where people actually thought they saw bombs, but they were afraid to call it in because people might think they are Islamphobic.

SEBASTIAN GORKA, AMERICAN WRITER: But are they even allowed to use words like Jihad? Well, then, what is this, what is happening in Orlando, what is happening in Philly, in San Bernardino? It is people who say they are Jihadists, who say that they are doing it for Allah, it is time to get political correctness out of it.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back to The Five. And that was Newt Gingrich and Sebastian Gorka on one of the biggest obstacles to the terror fight, political correctness in America. A former coworker of the Orlando Jihadist didn't stay silent about suspicious behavior he witnessed while working with Omar Mateen. Daniel Gilroy says he reported to his employer several times, but his concerns were ignored because Mateen was a Muslim.


DANIEL GILROY, OMAR MATEEN COWORKER: There was never a moment where he didn't have anger and rage, and he always loud and cursing. And anytime either a female or a black person would come by, he would use horrible words. And the company wouldn't remove him from the position. It was toxic. He started, for the lack of a better word, harassing me and stalking me. My family was scared. I quit the job.


GUILFOYLE: This is the problem, political correctness in America, making us less safe. And the problem is it starts from the White House, Eric, and trickles down. And you saw, even unfortunately, FBI director Comey mirroring the same language when in fact someone calls and says that he pledges allegiance to ISIS, you think why are we still so confused about what was the nature of this attack and what was the specific focus.

BOLLING: OK. Sure. OK, so 50 dead -- 49 dead in Orlando, radical Islamic did it, San Bernardino 14 dead or radical Islamic, Chattanooga 5 dead where radical Islamic did it, the Oklahoma beheading. In New Jersey, my son's friend was killed in response to things going on to people overseas in the Middle East, Boston Marathon, Fort Hood, Islamics have done this, radical Islamists have done this. Call me crazy, call me politically incorrect, but I am radical Islamphobic. These are the people who are killing Americans. If President Obama can't say it, I understand it's just words, but it also sends a message he can't put the two together.


BOLLING: Hillary Clinton won't put the two together. She says I can say it was radical Islam that caused some of these things, but she didn't blame this one on radical Islam. You need to do it. We are at war. They want to kill us, and we are at war, and we need to all join together and realize that is the enemy.

GUTFELD: But actually, you know what's funny? They do put it together. He refuses to link Islam -- Islam to terror, but he will link criticisms to Islam to terror. How can that be? If one is not linked to the other, how can criticism lead to it? If there's no connection between the doctrine and death, why is there a discussion of the doctrine leads to backlash? Is it complete contradiction? Is Islamophobia a phobia out there? They are afraid to name what is dangerous because they don't want to appear bigoted. We talked about this so long, our heads will explode. At some point, they are either going to be gone, they're going to be voted out of office, or they got to admit they are wrong and do something about it.

ROGINSKY: There are a couple things, one is, let's not forget that this man, this terrorist, went out and beat his wife. If she had reported it to police, he probably would have prevented him from getting a weapon. Secondly.

GUILFOYLE: We don't want to blame the victim.


ROGINSKY: I don't want to blame the victim, but secondly, this man -- I agree with you on that. But this man that accused him of stalking him, if he had gone to the police, maybe something would have been different. Look, I have no problem whatsoever -- and by the way, this man, this terrorist has said horrible things about gay people, about women consistently. He showed up at a gay club. It wasn't by accident. That was a strain of homophobia that existed in him, whether because of his religion or because he just hated gay people.


ROGINSKY: We have a lot of homophobic people, where it's directly consistent with their religion, and they're not Islamic either. We have a lot of homophobic people here.


ROGINSKY: Wait a second.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think that's a fair statement.


GUTFELD: I understand the kind of homophobia where people see men kissing and go oh, I can't handle that. They don't throw them off buildings.


ROGINSKY: Wait a second, wait a second. Let me just say this. I will give oyu one example. I'm not comparing what Eric Rudolph did to this because this is worst mass killing in the history of the country. You have Eric Rudolph, who said -- and I'm going to use a quote, the truth is that I'm a Christian. Religiously, I'm a traditional Catholic. He bombed a lesbian nightclub in Atlanta about a decade ago, if not longer. So the point is I have no problem calling it Islamic terrorism because these people to me pervert the teachings of their faith. But if that's the case, let's not blame -- unilaterally blame 1.6 million Muslims, as the presidential nominee from the Republican Party did today, by essentially saying the Muslims have to work with us to know what's going on.


BOLLING: Can I respond?


GUILFOYLE: They read newspapers, they teach, they work, they watch television, they do know what is going on.


BOLLING: Let me reiterate the words of one of the smartest people I know who said it this afternoon, somewhere midday today. Radical Islamic homophobia is the reason for this. But radical Islamic homophobia stems from radical -- I mean, Islamic homophobia. He's saying because z it's in their culture, as you pointed out, it is in Sharia law, it becomes radicalized and then they kill.


ROGINSKY: . if you go to the original sourcing, not what they evolved into supports.


GUTFELD: We get that. The three religions don't like homosexuality. At least of the three, two have progressed to a point they are not murdering them.


GUTFELD: You have one example.


ROGINSKY: Wade Mitchell Page.


ROGINSKY: Paul Jennings.

GUTFELD: Add them all up, please. It will not come to a fraction of the Islamic hatred and violence.

ROGINSKY: I'm not diminishing this.


GUILFOYLE: If I can get Dana, in which I keep asking.

PERINO: I'm just going to approach this segment from a different perspective. Because on the political correctness piece, which is about your neighbors and your friends and your co-workers, so Mateen's co-worker says I tried to report it. But here is the thing, Americans, you are taught from an early age, not just in America, don't be a tattletale. That's early on. I remember that admonishment for telling on my cousins for doing something wrong. Don't be a tattletale. And also, you are taught to be kind and to be tolerant. And also, later on in your life, you just don't want to get involved with the police or law enforcement.


PERINO: There's a cultural thing we have in America where you don't want to tell on your neighbor in San Bernardino because you look like yeah, it looks like they are doing something weird, but then this weird thing that makes you look intolerant or bad. And even though our government officials tell us, if you see something, say something.


PERINO: Sometimes you feel like it might be too much and you are afraid to do that. Again, this idea, you don't want to get involved, and maybe our law enforcement can do a better job of assuring people that if you come to us with a report, we promise some anonymity, we won't drag you into some sort of a long, drawn out legal process.

GUTFELD: You know what it is, it is leaders saying if you see something, say something, unless it might be a Muslim. We much prefer our villains to be white.

BOLLING: And if you are wrong, you are an Islamphobic or homophobic.


GUTFELD: Even in the ads, they make it so it's all races. They don't want to make it look like perhaps it might be one religion. We are OK with that. It's possible. You are right. There are other awful people in other religions. But unfortunately, right now, there seems to be one that seems to be doing the most damage.

GUILFOYLE: The majority of gay people in this country were not murdered by Muslims. I hate to say this. They were not murdered by Muslims. You can't say the entire religion is responsible for this behavior.

GUTFELD: There is a catch up going on.

GUILFOYLE: No one is saying the entire religion is responsible. People responsible know who they are. The point to the matter is, you cannot have -- political correctness cannot be part of the terror threat equation, period. And when you don't have leaders to even say the word, my God, we are asking the average citizens to be more courageous than the people that are in the White House than one that wants to be.


GUTFELD: I don't need a leader to tell me that I need to change.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Why don't they do it?


GUILFOYLE: The president still hasn't blamed radical Islam for the attack, but he is blaming guns and calling for more gun control. Would fewer guns stop terror? We debate that next.


GUTFELD: The left labels Orlando as gun violence. Where did they learn this?


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We are also going to have to make sure that we think about the risks we are willing to take by being so lax in how we make very powerful firearms available to people in this country.

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESUMPTIVE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I believe weapons of war have no place on our streets.

We have to make it harder for people who should not have those weapons of war. And that may not stop every shooting or every terrorist attack, but it will stop some and it will save lives, and it will protect our first responders.


GUTFELD: But if Orlando is gun violence, then what was 9/11? A box cutter violence? Shall we blame hardware stores for that act? Pressure cookers caused the Boston bombing. Shall we blame Crate and Barrel?

Blaming an inanimate object absolves you of actual guts. It wasn't the availability of weapons that caused these acts. It was a hateful, murderous, homophobic, misogynistic ideology, one that sees murdering gays as an act of compassion. And it's a belief ignored by multiculturalists. Islamism has killed gays for a while. So lefties, if you never spoke out about that, shut up about guns.

Now the pope is lashing out -- at guns, not Islamism. He says guns circulate too freely. Doesn't he know that ISIS hits soft targets, not hard ones like the Vatican? It's all based on hard versus soft. If the Vatican were as unarmed as Pulse -- the club -- the pope would not be alive. But ISIS knows that the pope is surrounded by a military force consisting of 100-plus ex-Swiss soldiers, who carry muskets but also submachine guns, with heavily armed agents nearby. If that club, Pulse, had three percent of the pope's arms, he wouldn't be lecturing on guns.

The pope complained that aid and food to poor countries are often blocked, but guns are not. Doesn't he see that, if it weren't for armed men from our country, most aid would get nowhere?

He says he's pro-life. Not here, I'm afraid.

Dana, I'm against guns going to crazy people. But calling this gun violence absolves the purpose and the intent of the cause of what went on. Right? I know that wasn't a question.

PERINO: It gives them another way to stop -- to avoid talking about terrorism, the war that has come to us.


PERINO: We did not seek out this war. They have declared war on us. And I understand President Obama's posture and that he wants to be calm, wants to make sure that it looks like everything is just fine, everyone is going to have to just, like, accept this. It is unacceptable, both from a legal standpoint.

And I have to say, if I thought this could all be absolved [SIC] by a ban on guns, I'd be for it.


PERINO: But it's not going to stop there. A much harder one to deal with is one culture, our own, and meaning that how do we figure out a way, as we were talking in the previous block, to turn people in if we see something and say something? But the harder thing is, how do you deal with an ideology that is hell-bent on destroying us?

GUTFELD: They find a way, Eric. If it's not guns, it's pressure cookers. It's knives. It's whatever they get their hands on.

BOLLING: Can I show you two headlines today? The New York Post headline says "ISIS Vs. Us." I'd say that's pretty accurate.


BOLLING: Most Americans would agree with that.

And this despicable headline.


BOLLING: Really? "Thanks, NRA"?


BOLLING: I mean, the day after this, your headline, you hang this on the - - not even a crazed gunman, the NRA. It's insane.

President Obama mentioned guns; Hillary Clinton mentioned guns. Sally Cohen, the crazy radical liberal, mentioned Christians.


BOLLING: It's Christians' fault. The pope says guns. I don't know what's going on here. It's ISIS. We're at war with them.

One quick thought: the AR-15 is not an assault weapon.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: It's a semiautomatic long gun. That's it. One pull, one gun.

GUILFOYLE: But people don't get it, because they don't know guns.

BOLLING: They keep calling that -- you can -- how's this? You want to ban assault weapons, knock yourself out. The AR-15s, all eight to ten million of them, will still be legal.

GUILFOYLE: But they don't understand, because they're just speaking out of ignorance. And you don't even have Hillary Clinton who understands fully the nature of the laws and guns.

The gun laws that we have are very good. They need to be enforced.

And then people who see someone behaving in a way, inappropriately or violently, they need to come forward and notify the authorities. And then the authorities, like the FBI, need to check those systems and CIS and whatnot. Dana, we talked about that earlier. And make sure that people that are a threat risk like that are put on a delayed gun list until they are fully investigated and questioned and blocked from getting the weapon if they do pose a serious threat or danger to others. It's that simple.

And guess what? All of those books are on -- all of those laws are on the books right now, as we speak today.

GUTFELD: I know, Julie, you like to bring up the other kind of terrorism. So I thought Oklahoma. Two people, no guns, 163 -- 163 people killed. They blew up a building.

ROGINSKY: But let's look at the -- listen, by the way, I think you have a constitutional right to a gun, and nobody is talking about banning all guns. But can't we have some rational thought? The AR-15, you're right; it's not a -- it's a semi-automatic assault weapon. It's not a...

BOLLING: No, no, no. You can't say "assault weapon." It's not...

ROGINSKY: It's a semi-automatic rifle, fine.


ROGINSKY: But the problem here is that, when I walk in with an AR-15, I can kill everybody in this room within a span of seconds. What do you need that gun for? Do you need it?

GUILFOYLE: Well, guess what? Guess what? I can come in here with a Glock or a Beretta and I can do it, too.

ROGINSKY: Not as quickly.

GUILFOYLE: Semi-automatic.

ROGINSKY: Not as quickly, though. That's the problem.

BOLLING: The vast majority of mass murders are committed with a handgun.

GUILFOYLE: That's why he had a handgun.

ROGINSKY: But listen, you have -- I mean, look at the common denominator here. You're talking about this shooting.

GUTFELD: Radical Islam.

ROGINSKY: You're talking about Sandy Hook. No, you're talking about Sandy Hook. I mean, you're talking about all sorts of mass murder. Why do you need that particular weapon? And I'm not for banning guns.

BOLLING: It's a long gun. It's a rifle.

ROGINSKY: Why do you need a gun with that many cartridges, with that many rounds, why?

BOLLING: So you're making a case on how many rounds you can put it?

ROGINSKY: Yes. There are laws before different states.

BOLLING: There's a debate to be had with that.

ROGINSKY: Well, there are laws, fine, but...

BOLLING: Don't ban the gun. Ban the...


BOLLING: ... the number of bullets you can put in the gun at a time, I guess. I'm against -- there's the debate.

ROGINSKY: Great, but the NRA is -- the NRA IS against that, as well. That's my point. Why can't we have a rational discussion about this where people are just calm about it?

BOLLING: Because -- because Julie, you can take a Glock. You can take -- you can take 16 bullets in a handgun, reload it within a second. So you're basically saying pull all these things off the market?

GUILFOYLE: You set it back up, click. Put it in. It takes seconds.

ROGINSKY: I'm saying, listen, there are different ammo rounds. I mean, why can't we have a discussion about that?

PERINO: But we can have a discussion about that. The thing is that Mateen, had he not had the weapon, because he was become -- he had become radicalized -- and remember, he's friends and buddies with the Floridian who goes to Syria and blows himself up -- he would have found a way. Maybe his own suicide vest, whatever it might have been. That's the difference between talking about -- we can have a debate in this country about gun -- the gun culture.


PERINO: That's not going to do anything to go with the ideology that we're facing.

GUILFOYLE: They go where the guns are. Soft targets. Look at the Bataclan. Look at Pulse nightclub. Because nobody is there. Schools. Look at it.

BOLLING: And there...

GUILFOYLE: Schools. Look at it. History. The facts are there.

BOLLING: And there is a ban on -- on extended bullet magazines.

ROGINSKY: Except for the fact that states that actually have stronger gun laws have less gun violence. It's just a fact.

GUTFELD: That's not true. We have to go, but that is not true. And we do know for a fact that this happens in gun-free zones.

GUILFOYLE: That is absolutely true. Those are the facts.

GUTFELD: It's true. It's a fact.

BOLLING: Chicago.

ROGINSKY: Well, there is Chicago. Look at the 50 states and look and tell me where you have fewer gun violence.

GUTFELD: Up next -- all right. The presumptive nominees, how would they confront the terror threat if they were elected to the White House? Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton ahead.


BOLLING: Welcome back. Americans have a very important decision to make in November. Will they elect a president who will confront the radical Islamic terror threat who calls it by name? Or will they choose a president who will perpetuate President Obama's failed counterterror strategy?


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Hillary Clinton, for months, and despite so many attacks, repeatedly refused to even say the words "radical Islam," until I challenged her yesterday.

Hillary Clinton's catastrophic immigration plan will bring vastly more radical Islamic immigration into this country, threatening not only our society but our entire way of life.

They have put political correctness above common sense.

CLINTON: We know, already, the barbarity that we face from radical jihadists is profound.

We face a twisted ideology and poisoned psychology that inspires the so- called lone wolves.

Millions of peace-loving Muslims live, work and raise their families across America.

We should be intensifying contacts in those communities, not scapegoating or isolating them.


BOLLING: Jules, can I go to you first on this? I know you don't like Donald Trump's proposal to temporarily ban Muslims, all Muslims from coming into the country. What about the refugee program?

ROGINSKY: What about them?

BOLLING: I think they -- I think Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have vastly different ideas on the refugees. Obviously, Donald Trump would say no refugees whatsoever. Hillary Clinton would probably continue what President Obama is saying: we need more refugees. Bring more.

ROGINSKY: Well, look, first of all, they're talking about a very, very small number of refugees, and they're talking about refugees that are vetted for 18 months. And I understand that Comey, the FBI director James Comey, said you can't vet everybody 100 percent. Nothing is 100 percent. You have no guarantees I'm not going to be radicalized tomorrow. I mean, there's no guarantees in life.

BOLLING: You're not worried about radical extremism?

ROGINSKY: But I will say this. Let me just read you a quote, OK? It's a very important quote, I think.

"Those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists and every government who supports them." You know who said that? George Bush, September 20, 2001.

I think that is the finest moment of the Bush administration. I thought the president was 100 percent right, and I'm sad -- I think it's tragic that a decade and a half after he said those words, the Republican nominee for president essentially is saying that the entire Muslim religion is culpable for the act.

BOLLING: Well, I'm not sure he's saying they're culpable. But Dana, is it -- can you understand where Donald Trump is coming from: at least temporarily stop, and then figure out how we vet them? Do we -- are we vetting these people properly?

PERINO: Well, I think the refugee program is separate and apart from the ideology and the war against terror. Because Mateen was born in America. He's an American citizen, so he's -- that comes with all the benefits and the rights that we were born with.

And so, if I were Trump or Hillary, I would also be focusing and asking the administration during this transition period, "I don't want to walk into the Oval Office on January 20 at noon and not have some sort of a plan that is a grander strategy to deal with this from a recruitment standpoint, from social media standpoint." And also the refugee program has to be part of that, but I think it's pretty small.

And at this point, actions are going to speak a lot louder than words. And I don't think we can wait six months to get a new president in there, who then is going to have to wait another six months to get his appointees confirmed, before we can actually have a strategy to deal with this.

ROGINSKY: You're absolutely right.

BOLLING: Greg, your thoughts? By the way, can you separate the two? The refugee program and Muslim immigration?

GUTFELD: I think it's hard at this point, because you see in Germany where some of the terrorists have gone in with the immigrants and have -- and have tried -- the migrants and have tried to plan and have been stopped.

Trump's speech was strong and then bad, and then strong. It was strong when he said radical Islam will kill members of the LGBT community when given the chance. That was an opportunity that Hillary missed and President Obama missed. He was so strong on that.

Selling immigration based on a U.S. terrorist is an error on his part. Still, what he did, as messy as it was, beats the platitudes...


GUTFELD: ... of Hillary saying -- whenever they're saying we're against hate, that we're better than hate. We are not stupid. This is so -- we understand it. Hate's bad. This is not about hate. This is about action.

BOLLING: Which one works better, K.G.? There are very -- two extremes.

GUILFOYLE: And guess what? We're dealing with two times in history. There was a time then when, you know, President Bush was president. And now what do we have? Now we have ISIS, OK, which is meaner, worse than, you know, AQAP, I think, and some of these other groups that we have dealt with before.

So what you do is you react in real time and in good measure, and you respond with force, militarily. And you respond, like Dana said, by attacking the recruitment. And you respond with intelligence gathering.

This is a time that you should be fortifying the military and making sure that we have the resources in place immediately, yes, not six months and then six months from now, because we are in a crisis. It's ISIS versus us. And by us, I mean internationally, this is of concern.

Just ask Angela Merkel. Look at the problems that she's having there. So then you tie in, yes, you have to look at the refugee and immigration program, as well. Because when ISIS tells you that they're going to be sending in fighters and terrorists that way, taking the path of least resistance, wake up. Take them for their word.

BOLLING: All right. Well, we're going to leave it right there.

Ahead, the Muslim reaction, the Muslim reaction to the latest Islamic terror attack on U.S. soil. Will America's Muslim community step up to stop the bloodshed? Stay tuned.


ROGINSKY: Welcome back. There's mixed reaction in the Muslim community to this latest attack. Some leaders say we shouldn't draw conclusions about Islam's role.


IMAM MUHAMMAD MUSRI, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF CENTRAL FLORIDA: I want to also caution many in the media from rushing to judgment and from, you know, sensationalizing the story, because we do not want this story to be shifted from the focus where it is.

It's a horrible tragedy. We are mourning. We are sad. We are heartbroken. And it's not really time for any sensational news, just -- and rushing to judgment.


ROGINSKY: Well, you know, I think those are not mutually exclusive terms. I mean, you can condemn what happened and say you can't blame the entire religion. And Greg, I mean, you tell me. Do you think, in this case, that they have a point about this?

GUTFELD: I don't know. There's another imam saying that gays must die. So you know, we -- you know, I'd like -- I wish all imams and everybody in the Muslim faith were like that. But unfortunately, they've got to police the people that are there.

And I think the left has to start looking at this and stop seeing grievance groups on the same level. The fact is that there are people that don't like you. This is -- there were 49 people died. This is, you know, 48 more than Matthew Shepard. The outrage has to be -- has to be commensurate.

ROGINSKY: Kimberly, you worked in law enforcement.


ROGINSKY: I've heard law enforcement actually deals a lot with Muslims in terms of cooperation and finding out who among them is somebody they should focus on. Is that something you ever dealt with?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, in prosecuting gang cases and homicides and sexual assaults and all that, it just depends on who the bad guy is on that particular day. But of course, there's always law-abiding people in communities that want to help out, that want to be part of the solution and give information, you know, that's helpful.

And with respect to this gentleman's comments, you know, I appreciate the majority of, you know, what he has to say, but when he says don't try and sensationalize it, my God.

I think it's impossible to sensationalize a tragedy like this that is so unspeakable and so horrifying, what happened to those victims and to their families that are now suffering. I mean, you know, that's not where we need to focus. We need -- he needs to be saying, "Everyone in the Muslim community, let's be part of the solution and work together as Americans to combat radical Islamic terrorism." That's what needs to be said.


PERINO: I would say here's an idea in terms of rooting out the imams who are radicals. I mean, they need to be ousted in some way. And I think one of the things that a responsible person like the gentleman we had on could do is, if you read the obituaries and the remembrances of the victims, these are young people. Young -- so much happiness and joy in their lives. Their families' lives are ruined. Focus on -- they should focus on those people rather than themselves and always thinking of themselves as the victims here.

GUILFOYLE: Largely Latin and very young, in their 20s.

BOLLING: So look, radical Islam is under scrutiny right now. Muslims in America realize that -- and they're saying, "Don't blame all of us for what a few people do." But that being the case, where are they calling these people out?


BOLLING: Where are they saying, "I'm not sure about this -- this Mateen guy, but I'm not real comfortable with him. And he's Muslim, I'm Muslim, but you know what? Keep an eye on him." There's got to be more of that, and it's got to be more publicized and make it OK to do it across the board.

ROGINSKY: All right.


ROGINSKY: All right. Stay with us. Some final thoughts straight ahead.


PERINO: A final thought now, on our final moments, on the terror in Orlando -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: You know, when I was thinking about this and really want to focus about the victims of this violent, horrific crime, who did nothing but to love one another and show up, you know, on an evening to have a good time. They didn't have a choice. They were cut down in the middle of their life.

Be courageous on their behalf. If you see something, say something. Get involved. Do something to be part of the solution here so we can stop this carnage. And encourage your leaders to show the courage that they need to to keep us all safe.

PERINO: All right. Thank you so much, everybody. Stay tuned to the FOX News Channel throughout the night for new developments on the terror attack in Florida. We know that Donald Trump will be on "O'Reilly" at 8 p.m. Eastern, so don't miss that. "Special Report" is next.

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