New details about Orlando gunman Omar Mateen from former classmate, colleague

Former classmate recalls the Orlando shooter's reaction to the September 11 attacks; reaction on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 13, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, the Feds are looking at the possibility of an accomplice now as they chase down hundreds of leads in the Orlando nightclub massacre trying to determine if the man behind our nation's worst terror attack since 9/11 had any help.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly reporting tonight from Orlando. Where less than 48 hours ago, 49 innocent lives were cut short not far from where I am right now. When a mad man bust into a well- known Orlando nightclub and opened fire. Fox News has learned that authorities are now looking for direct evidence that Omar Mateen may have scouted out other locations for his rampage including an area known as Disney Springs at the Walt Disney resort.

A People magazine source claims Omar's own wife told them that he did scout that area. It's still unclear whether that's true. However, Disney world tells "The Kelly File" that it has increased security across its properties. We're also getting new details of what happened inside the club. Both from people who survived and those who know those who did not. One of the people killed, 25-year-old Amanda Alvear actually shared video to Snap chat when the shots rang out. And the video starts with Amanda and her friends having a good time, it ends with her whispering the word "shooting."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm on the way to the club. I'm at the club.



KELLY: That's hard to watch. A young life cut tragically short. Another man, Norman Casiano survived after being shot four times. He hid out in one of the bathrooms and just share this story with our own Peter Doocy. Watch.


PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: When you were in the stall, what were you hearing? What did you see?

NORMAN CASIANO, ORLANDO TERROR VICTIM: Inside the stall, I just seeing everyone's face, just genuine fear, just terrified. No one was really doing a lot of talking. We were trying to be quiet so he wouldn't find us. Outside you could just hear bullet after bullet after bullet after bullet just going off as it got closer and closer to our stall.

DOOCY: Did you hear this terrorist saying anything?

CASIANO: He never spoke from, when I was there. He laugh when he was shooting inside of the stall.

DOOCY: Was he laughing a lot? Was it just --

CASIANO: It was just like a one like a laugh of like satisfaction like I'm getting done what I came here to do. And it's imprinted in my head forever.

DOOCY: How are you feeling? Where were you shot?

CASIANO: I was shot four times, twice on my side right here and then twice on the opposite side, and I'm just -- I'm in pain, I'm ready go home and relax and try to -- just not forget but put it in the back of my head at least for a few hours.


KELLY: Tonight there are also questions about how authorities handled the rampage given the three-hour window between the first shot and when the S.W.A.T. team actually rammed the building. Busting out holes for the hostages to escape through. But then the terrorist themselves emerge out of one of those very holes, guns blazing and what we believe was part of that exchange, was caught on video here. Watch.

We have a huge show lined up for you tonight starting with Trace Gallagher on what the terrorist's family is now saying. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Seddique Mateen, the father of the Orlando shooter says, he does not believe his son was radicalized or that his pledge to ISIS was genuine insisting that his son's motivation was homophobia, not religion. And the father has been widely been quoted as saying, God will punish those involved in homosexuality. But a short while ago, the father told THE KELLY FILE that while he does believe God says marriage is between a man and a woman, he has nothing against homosexuals. Listen.


SEDDIQUE MATEEN, OMAR MATEEN'S FATHER: It's a free country, freedom of choice. Anyone lives the way that they like, more than welcome. Who am I to approve or disapprove?


GALLAGHER: Seddique Mateen also talks to us about how great Americans is but in numerous online videos, the killer's father who was born in Afghanistan speaks out against America and in favor of the Taliban who he calls, quote, "our warrior brothers." When we questioned him about that, he reversed course calling the Taliban the terrorists. And then we asked him if he ever talked to his son about Sharia Law. Watch.


MATEEN: Sharia Law is guidance to the humanity. That means that you have to promote good behavior, serving people. That's why I'm out to say to the whole people that what my son did was the wrong act against religion.


GALLAGHER: Clearly different stories. And as for the killer's first wife saying she left him because he beat her repeatedly, Seddique Mateen says, she never came to him for help. And now we're learning the killer's second wife may also had left him just prior to the shooting. But we cannot find any marriage or divorce records on the couple. But Noor Salman reportedly told authorities her husband had been scouting the Pulse nightclub as well as Disney Springs, that is the shopping and dining area outside the magic kingdom. And now in these photos, we are getting our first look inside the shooter's home, which appears normal. Couches, TV, cartoon characters, even a hello Kitty clock and a wall of family pictures. No signs of a telltale signs of the terror being sheltered within -- Megyn.

KELLY: It's incredible to see that, to see what appears to be his love for her own family as he took the lives of 49 others with families of their own. Trace, thank you.

Joining us now, FOX News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano. What do you make of this development tonight, Judge?

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: Well, the developments put the FBI in some of an ambiguous situation, Megyn. Because we know of the inquiries they made of him. One of which was very lengthy and very detailed. We also know that he was employed by a security contractor, one of whose principle clients was the federal government of the United States and when they have that kind of relationship, they are required to perform certain background checks which at a minimum ask about contacts with the FBI.

So there was definitely a breakdown here between the FBI which knew his employer and his employer which knew was supposed to ask about the FBI. Stated differently, had they communicated, it's extremely unlikely he would have been found suitable to have the licenses necessary to carry the military hardware that he brought into the building that night.

KELLY: And on top of that tonight, we know that the authorities have been scouring his apartment looking at the electronics. I'm sure they're looking at his computer and any other devices he had, and now they're coming out and saying on the record, that they are looking into possible accomplices and there could be other arrests in this case.

NAPOLITANO: It's their principled duty right now to see if there are confederates out there. Not only because the confederates may have gotten away but because the confederates could still be dangerous. And that is the principal obligation of the FBI to rise on federal law and to rise on the constitution itself. I don't doubt for a moment that there are hundreds of FBI agents not far from where you are now looking at every tidbit they can find from every piece of evidence I know about him.

KELLY: Quick question. Quick question. The wife. He had two wives. I mean, he had an ex-wife and then he married. This woman who is now telling authorities according to the People Magazine and the Wall Street Journal reports that he had scouted other locations including this Disney Springs. Could she be in trouble? I mean, I didn't hear any report that she didn't went to authorities and told them that prior to this event.

NAPOLITANO: She's certainly as a person of interest that the FBI would want to talk to because they are furious. If you held this back, what else do you know that you might also have held back? We need to know everything that you know because we are putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

KELLY: Judge, good to see you.

NAPOLITANO: Thank you.

KELLY: We are also getting new information about Omar Mateen from those who knew him personally, including a former high school classmate who was with the now terrorist on September 11th, 2001, when they were in the ninth grade. The classmate Robert Zirkle an excited Mateen celebrated and laugh as America was attacked on that day. He joins me now along with Mateen's former co-worker Dan Gilroy. Good to have you both here with me. Thank you.

Dan, you're here with me. So, I just want to ask you because you worked with him relatively recently. What were the years that you two worked together?

DAN GILROY, FORMER CO-WORKER OF OMAR MATEEN: March 2014 to March 2015 approximately.

KELLY: And in that time frame, how often was it that you heard him make bigoted remarks?

GILROY: Every time I saw him. He was half hour, an hour at shift change, and it was only him and I. And he made horrible statements every time I saw him.

KELLY: Did you go to the boss? Or like how soon did you go to the boss?

GILROY: Actually, it took me about eight months before I went to the boss.


GILROY: I wanted to make the job work, I wanted to keep the peace, I wanted to not be the troublemaker at work, and after realizing this gentleman had some serious issues, I went to the company.

KELLY: Did they fire him?


KELLY: You quit.



GILROY: Because after four months of asking for a transfer to get away from him, they simply were dragging their feet and not complying and double talk.

KELLY: Why do you think that is?

GILROY: They actually said it was for financial reasons, they didn't want to have to train two people.

KELLY: So when you heard the news, you were not surprised?

GILROY: No, not at all.

KELLY: Robert, you knew Omar Mateen in High School, when you were in ninth grade together. And you were there when he learned about the attacks on 9/11, on the day of 9/11. Tell us what you heard.

ROBERT ZIRKLE, ATTENDED HIGH SCHOOL WITH OMAR MATEEN: Well, I rode the bus with him. And in the day of the 9/11 attacks, when he got on my school bus, he acted like he was a plane, he would hold his arms out by his side and make plane noises and he would, when he got to his feet, he would stop and make an explosion type of sound and then he would fall into his seat. On that day, he fell into his sit and started made like screaming-type noises and started laughing about it and acting like it was a big joke.

KELLY: Were there any religious references?

ZIRKLE: On that day, not that I can remember, no.

KELLY: Didn't mention Allah, didn't mention, you know, sort of any of the terms that we've come to understand.

ZIRKLE: Not to me personally. No, I don't believe he mentioned Allah or anything of that nature. Not to me anyway.

KELLY: Did you believe he -- did you believe he might have just been a kid horsing around? I mean, did you think there was anything more to it?

ZIRKLE: I thought so back then. Yes, I thought like maybe he was just trying to gain friends or trying to make himself more popular maybe because he really didn't have a lot of friends in high school as far as I knew. But my friends and I kind of didn't really take it for granted. We kind of joked around it like, man, this kid might grow up one day and be one of those people. That's why I was shocked find out that it was somebody I knew but at the same time, I kind of wasn't because we had spoken about this when I was in high school.

KELLY: Somebody else in your classroom said the same thing, said they heard him made similar references. What happened to him? Was this reported up the line?

ZIRKLE: I don't really know -- I don't know what happened. Like I said, maybe he was just trying to impress people, make people mad, but he definitely made my whole school bus mad.

KELLY: And I'll ask you as well whether you ever heard any religious references or whether it was all bigoted remarks and sexist remarks.

GILROY: Our conversations weren't bigot and sexist. But he's religious activities was, he would bring a prayer mat with him and he would pray right in front of me. He would kneel down and chant and kiss objects and put on different -- I think he put on a hat while he did that. And he did that for about ten minutes. And a couple of times during the shift, and he was a devout Muslim.

KELLY: Uh-hm. A devout Muslim making several bigoted remarks at a time when we now know the police were at least looking into this man. Thank you very much for being here, both of you. Thank you.

GILROY: Thank you.

KELLY: Well, as you just heard Omar Mateen's former classmate says, early warning signs pointed to some trouble with this man. But Mateen's father, his imam, and his ex-wife has all said, that in their experience this guy showed, no signs of supporting ideology. So which is it?

For answers we turned to Maajid Nawaz, a former Islamic extremist and author of "Radical: My Journey Out of Islamic Extremism."

Maajid, thank you so much for being here tonight. So, the father, you know, coming out and saying, I condemn this, I have no sympathy for him and trust me when I tell you this had nothing to do with religion and he was not radicalized, what do you make of it?

MAAJID NAWAZ, FORMER ISLAMIC EXTREMIST: Well, one (INAUDIBLE) the father is now worried that he is going to be arrested himself and accused generally by the public of radicalizing his son. You mentioned earlier Megyn, we have evidence of this father tracing the terrorists jihadist group the Taliban as Afghan warriors. And this is why I don't like using the term lone wolf. We know from our own empirical studies at Quilliam that also anecdotally that those cortap (ph) in jihadists attacks are rarely alone even if they are operationally not directed by terrorists group, they are certainly not ideologically isolated. And in this instance, clearly the father sympathizes with Jihadism otherwise he wouldn't have praised the Taliban.

KELLY: I mean, the fact that he may have come out as a 14-year-old and celebrated 9/11, I mean, that's not what your average Muslim kid on 9/11. You know, that's got to be learned.

NAWAZ: Of course. There's an atmosphere. You know, people that celebrate the death over 3,000 people must find encouragement from somewhere to do that because this is not normal behavior. Now he's certainly not getting that from his classmates. We just heard from one of them. So, there are atmosphere in which this man must have moved him in that found that the death of 3,000 people over 15 years ago was something to laugh about and he's obviously continued those attitudes on ever since.

KELLY: But his imam comes out and says publicly, oh, he was very pro- American, he was a cop, he was a security guard. And said something along the lines of we, we thought he was more aligned with you than with us. Your thoughts.

NAWAZ: Yes, Megyn, look. You know, we're constantly looking for the wrong signs of radicalization. Let us not forget that the 9/11 hijackers -- were found in bars and strip clubs. Let us not forget that the Fort Hood massacre by Major Nidal Hasan was by a man who worked by the U.S. Armed Forces. Let us not forget the San Bernardino attackers were also government employees. In fact, with these other two examples that I mentioned, the one commonality that they all share is that these are people who worked in inconspicuous circumstances and then turned their guns on their own colleagues.

And in this instance, we know that Omar Mateen frequented Pulse nightclub himself. Perhaps he had homoerotic tendencies or perhaps he was scouting the area. Perhaps it was both. But we do know is both in the Fort Hood massacre, the San Bernardino attacks and here in Orlando. That these jihadists have attacked areas that they are familiar with, either where they had worked or they frequented. So, it's no surprise to me that he didn't display extensible signs of religiosity because that's exactly what jihadists instruct those through their self-starter manuals. That's exactly what they instruct their followers to do.

KELLY: What do you make of the history of the wives, the one said that she was abused badly by him shortly after they got married and the second wife now reportedly telling police she knew he was scouting locations.

NAWAZ: Well, my sympathy goes to the first wife. Because often, you know, violence starts at home and it often, you know, when you're a homophobe, you're also often a misogynist, when you're an extremist, you're also often a wife beater. Because, you know, people take medieval attitudes to religion, they also take medieval attitudes to women. So, entirely I sympathize with the first wife. And you know, I extend my solidarity to her. She must have suffered.

The second wife, however, bears a responsibility. When she found that her then husband was scouting areas for attack, if that's what she's confessed to, then it was her moral religious and patriotic duty to raise the alarm and report that. And in fact, people that don't report such things whether it's of their husbands, or their siblings or whoever their friends, they give Muslims like me and everyone else. In fact, they give good descent human beings a bad name. It was her duty in fact to report that to the police the minute she became aware of it.

KELLY: Maajid Nawaz, thank you so much, sir. Great to see you tonight.

NAWAZ: Thank you. Pleasure.

KELLY: Well, also tonight, some critics are suggesting that the Orlando S.W.A.T. team waited too long to move in. They are coming under fire this evening for the three-hour delay before they went in. Mark Fuhrman is here on that.

Plus, former CIA Director James Woolsey is with us. That is big. He's got some thoughts on political correctness and terror.

But first we have James Kallstrom, former assistant director of the FBI on why he thinks the Feds are in over their heads here. He's next. Don't go away.


JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Our work is very challenging. We're looking for needles in a nationwide haystack, but we're also called upon to figure out which pieces of hay might someday become needles. That is hard work. If we can find a way to do that better, we will.



KELLY: Breaking tonight. We are learning more about how Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen may have slipped through the cracks of the FBI's investigation. FBI Director James Comey taking to the microphones today and explaining how much he came to their attention in 2013, what did about it and why they ultimately decided he was not a threat? Listen.


COMEY: Our investigation involved introducing confidential sources to him, recording conversations with him, following him, reviewing transactional records from his communications, and searching all of government holdings for any possible connections, any possible derogatory information. We then interviewed him twice. The killer's name surfaced again in an indirect way. Our Miami office was investigating the Florida man who had blown himself up for the Nusra Front in Syria.

And we learned from the investigation that the killer knew him casually from attending the same mosque in that area of Florida. But our investigation turned up no ties of any consequence between the two of them. And we will work all day and all night to understand the path to that terrible night. We're also going to look hard at our own work to see whether there is something we should have done differently. So far the honest answer is, I don't think so.


KELLY: This is at the time he's working as a security against according to our guest at the top of the hour and making all these bigoted remarks. The FBI is investigating him, meeting with him, and finding out he's doing all this stuff same time working as a guard. In moments we'll be joined by James Kallstrom, the former FBI assistant director in charge.

But first, we go to our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge live in our D.C. Bureau. Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the critical period was the spring of 2014 after the first four FBI investigation concluded in March. Just three months later, the shooter's name surfaced in a second FBI investigation of an American suicide bomber in Syria, the men went to the same Central Florida mosque. Asked if anyone else at the mosque was radicalizing a witness identified Omar Mateen to the FBI and claimed he was watching videos from the American cleric Anwar al Awlaki who was an al Qaeda terrorist targeted for death by the CIA in 2011.

The cleric lived a double life, and this mug shot comes from a San Diego arrest for prostitution. Reading Awlaki sermons and watching his videos, are among the most common and obvious red flags for homegrown terrorism. This is what the same Bernardino shooters Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook were watching before they killed 14 last December. The Boston marathon bombers, Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev studied the clerics radical teaches before they planted pressure cooker bombs at the finish line in 2013. And Major Nidal Hasan exchanged e-mails with the American cleric before he opened fire at Fort Hood in 2009. Today a leading Democrat said, the bar to act was high for the FBI in the Orlando case.


REP. ADAM SCHIFF, D-CALIF., PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTEL: If there wasn't evidence of material support for terrorism, if there weren't over acts and supported conspiracy, if there wasn't evidence of an actual crime that was committed, they were not in a position to arrest the suspect.


HERRIDGE: This new evidence that Mateen was directed by a foreign terrorist group, but this in so many ways is an old-fashioned concept. You don't need a phone call or text message because ISIS give your followers a standing order to act. ISIS says, do it wherever you are and if you claim it in our name, we'll claim you as a soldier of the caliphate -- Megyn.

KELLY: It's unbelievable. Catherine, thank you so much.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

KELLY: Joining me now with reaction, James Kallstrom, formerly the assistant director in charge of the FBI and a senior counterterrorism adviser to the New York governor in the years after September 11th. Jim, good to see you again tonight. Here we are again and this guy's watching al Awlaki videos. He is watching Awlaki videos and the FBI says, there's no there there. Your thoughts on it.

JAMES KALLSTROM, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: I've known Jim Comey a long time. He's a good man. Of course, I know the FBI. I know the agents, support people, the analysts. They're all good people. They don't want anything like this to ever happen. But, Megyn, they're weighed down with this blanket, this wet blanket of political correctness, number one. You know, their training manual has been deleted of all words that were objectionable to the people, the so-called educated people of the National Security Council and the White House.

And they they don't have the resources to keep up. Why that case was not flagged to stop him from getting weapons, why it was not flagged, why he wasn't on a no fly list, I don't know the answers to that. This terrorist task force is around the United States. You know, I spent four-and-a-half years with Governor Pataki trying to get every Police Department in New York State, you know, from a four-man force to the biggest in the state, you know, tied into the task forces even if they weren't in their jurisdictions. You know, I hope --

KELLY: That's one of the questions, isn't it, Jim? That's one of the questions about whether the local cops were informed by the FBI. Look, we have got to move on.

KALLSTROM: Right. Right.

KELLY: But you guys have to keep an eye on it.

KALLSTROM: Yes. I don't know. I don't know if Port St. Lucie had a clue of this person. But I mean, there has to be a hand off. If there isn't, there needs to be a hand off to local police, state police so that they can leash to ride by. These things should never be, in my view, should never be closed. You know, they should have some sort of activity. But the bureau just, you know. Director Comey talks about hundreds of cases around the United States.

I can tell you, Megyn. I can tell the people watching the show tonight. You know, I was instrumental -- not bragging but was instrumental in setting up the surveillance operations of the FBI, both technical and physical. The FBI cannot conduct -- I'm not going go into great detail but they can't keep up with the numbers of particular cases that deserve surveillance.

KELLY: Right. You can't do 24/7 surveillance on all these people.

KALLSTROM: No, you can't. And, you know, the hoops they have to jump through, sometimes which are, you know, just a private citizen could do things the FBI can't do. Crazy. You know, I saw all these congressmen today, you know, in a moment of silence on the steps. The hypocrisy. They've done nothing to make the FBI's job easier. You know, I'm sure people have tried, but nothing has really happened.

You know, and I can't say enough about, you know, at 50,000 feet, you know, you've got people associated with the administration in the Muslim brotherhood. You've got Huma Abedin family high ranking people in the Muslim Brotherhood. You've got monies from Saudi Arabia and the other from Qatar and others going into the Clinton Foundation, and you've got this connection going on and there are also connections with Iran, which is the other big supporter. The Saudi Arabian government --

KELLY: I know. I just --

KALLSTROM: -- the radical --

KELLY: I want to say for the record, though, Jim, I know. I realize that you ran the surveillance program for two decades but those facts are in dispute. The Huma Abedin thing has been disputed. I'm not taking a position on it. I just want for the record the viewers to know that those are controversial claims and there has been significant pushback on the voracity. But I do want to ask you finally about Loretta Lynch --

KALLSTROM: Well, yes.

KELLY: -- because at the same time you're saying, Jim Comey, a good man and is hampered -- I understand it's your opinion. I just want to make sure that the viewers understand that that's opinion, it's controversial.

KALLSTROM: Well, Megyn --

KELLY: But at the same time, you have got Jim Comey, you said hampered. You've got Loretta Lynch out there. All right, go ahead.

KALLSTROM: Well, Loretta Lynch soon after the last one before this out in California, you know, came out with a statement about how they were going to prosecute people that had said, you know, bad things about Muslims or -- she didn't use the term radical...

KELLY: Anti-Muslim rhetoric. She said the DOJ will take action...

KALLSTROM: Yeah, Muslim rhetoric.

KELLY: Any anti-Muslim rhetoric or violent talk -- violent talk, which she then had to walk back because that would be a legal...

KALLSTROM: What about the violent talk -- what about the violent talk by the Black Lives Matter about roasting cops on a spit. What about that violent talk, which I never heard a word from -- and I'm not coming from the political angle. I'm just coming from the facts in what law enforcement has to deal with and what the FBI has to deal with. You know, we need to go to the next dimension, Megyn.

KELLY: I understand Jim, I understand. You know, but the truth is --

KALLSTROM: It's a matter of public --

KELLY: The Bush administration -- to both the Bush administration and the Obama administration have had some very controversial come in and advise them -- some very controversial clerics and others advise them on this Islam problem and the record is clear on who that is. I've got to go, Jim, but it's always a pleasure. Thank you, sir for being here.

KALLSTROM: Yeah, okay.

KELLY: Well, the former director of the CIA James Woolsey is next to talk about the terror threat that worries him the most. Plus, "The Kelly File" showed up at the gunman's mosque today and we'll show you what happened there.

And we're getting breaking news on a big political battle as Donald Trump goes to war with the "Washington Post" over how they are covering his terror remarks. Stay tuned.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, "The Kelly File" just stopped in to Omar Mateen's mosque and spoke with the mosque's spokesman. It's right here that America's deadliest mass shooter worshipped. A small Florida enclave that has reportedly just 200 regular worshippers as Catherine Herridge reported, it's also where an American homicide bomber who killed himself and others in Syria last spring went to pray. The mosque spokesperson called that a coincidence and said he's in shock over the nightclub terror attack.


ADEL NEFZI, ISLAMIC CENTER SPOKESMAN: It's a horrible thing. What happened to his mind, there's no explanation. As I mentioned to you, I'm still under shock and I can't understand how it happened. He's a loving father. He would come here with his son. He would play with his son. He would kiss his son. He would hug his son. So, it never came to his -- I have not...

(END VIDEO CLIP) KELLY: Joining me now former CIA director James Woolsey. Good to see you, sir. Thank you for being here with us tonight. And so the story is, you know, from this gentleman, from the families that this guy was not radicalized. There were no signs of it. He went to pray four times a week. But he'd pray, he'd leave, and that was the end of that, do you believe it?

JAMES WOOLSEY, FOMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, in San Bernardino, that couple who had been to a party that their co-workers had organized for them. There are a lot of circumstances I think in which we have radicalized people but they're playing their cards close to their vest. One just does not necessarily have with someone who's ideological and heavily driven and very committed, they can also be clever and hide their emotions, and apparently this may be what happened in this case.

KELLY: Now, the FBI is taking all sorts of heat because they had this guy twice on the radar and they let him go. But the thing is we have a Bill of Rights in the country and they're saying that it just didn't rise to the level where they could do what the rest of America now wishes they have done.

WOOLSEY: Exactly. I'm on the bureau side on this. This is the Federal Bureau of Investigation, not the federal bureau of protection. They can't just go out and arrest someone -- we have habeas corpus in this country. They can't just pluck someone out of the system that they believe might do something wrong even if they're saying crazy and emotional and jihadi things. They need something...

KELLY: Even if they're watching Anwar Al Awlaki videos.

WOOLSEY: Exactly. So, I think that the bureau -- I think did the best it could under the circumstances that it had to operate there. The problem is that the president and the administration for 7 1/2 years have not been even breathed the idea that we are at war. They're perfectly willing, I suppose, to let the Islamists, radicals believe and function as if they are at war with us, but we should not function as if we are at war with them. That here is just the...

KELLY: Can you just explain that? Explain why that term matters, why using the term radical Islam matters because the president said that's what they want us to say. They'll use that for propaganda purposes. It's not important to use that language.

WOOLSEY: I think what's crucial is to be accurate. You can't fight something effectively unless you can describe it. And this administration has been all along on -- I think on a notion that what they want to sell is the story that everything is fine, we've killed Bin Laden, everything else is going to work out. We're going to contain Isis, we're getting it done.

And when something comes along like Benghazi that doesn't fit into the narrative as I call it, they fiddle around with it in one way or another so, it comes closer to the narrative. They get so far on this sometimes that the political correctness is ridiculous. It sounds like something coming out of Ray Bradbury or a George Orwell novel. They really lose it sometimes.

KELLY: Well, former CIA director James Woolsey. Thank you, sir for being with us tonight.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you Megyn.

KELLY: Up next, see how Donald Trump tonight went nuclear in his battle with the "Washington Post" over its coverage of him and this terror attack. Plus, Hillary Clinton has a change of heart when it comes to radical Islam. Watch.


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Whatever we learn about this killer, his motives in the days ahead, we know already the barbarity that we face from radical jihadists is profound.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump has banned the "Washington Post" from his campaign events, revoking the publications press credentials and accusing the paper of having no integrity. Trump did not explain what prompted the embargo exactly but Post's punishable offense appears to be a headline that read, "Donald Trump suggests President Obama was involved with Orlando shooting." A headline which referenced some Trump remarks about the president earlier in the day. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Recently just this morning on a different network you said about the president, "He doesn't get it or he gets it better than anybody understands." What you do mean by that?

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, there are a lot of people that think maybe he doesn't want to get it. A lot of people think maybe he doesn't want to know about it. I happen to think that he just doesn't know what he's doing. But there are many people that think maybe he doesn't want to get it, he doesn't want to see what's really happening.


KELLY: Joining me now, Katrina Pierson. She's the Trump campaign's national spokesperson and Julie Roginsky who's a Democratic strategist and a Fox News contributor. Good to see you both. It started with an interview on "Fox and Friends" where Trump said to the "Fox and Friends" team, people can figure it out for themselves what he meant when he said there's something going on. That's what Trump was saying.

He kept saying there's something going on, there's something going on with Barack Obama that he isn't more forceful in his response. Julie I'll give it to you first on whether that's a problem, both statements.

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, look, if you're implying that the president of the United States is a terrorist sympathizer and the fact that's exactly what Donald Trump is doing, that is quite a startling statement to make as the presumptive Republican nominee, the man that wants to be the next president. Look, this is not a new thing for Donald Trump. He implied that he wouldn't release his birth certificate -- President Obama -- because he could be potentially a Muslim.

This is a dog whistle that's been going on for so long. It's not dog whistle anymore. He's now essentially coming out and saying that this president is potentially sympathizing with Isis. That's unacceptable and frankly, banning the "Washington Post" for a headline that he's not happy with -- well, I think the headline was somewhat unfair. It doesn't mean that the "Washington Post" or any other media outlet gets to be banned. This is not the Soviet Union.

I know he admires Vladimir Putin who banned a tremendous amount of media in Russia that President Obama -- excuse me -- that Donald Trump would want to have happen here, but we're not Russia. This cannot happen here in this country where you have somebody banning an outlet they don't like.

KELLY: Katrina, the Washington Post later softened its headline from Donald Trump suggests Obama was involved in the shooting to suggest President Obama -- that he seemed to connect President Obama to the Orlando shooting and they didn't make that or call attention to it, but they said, "hey, we did it on our own. The Trump campaign didn't even ask us to do it," so there.

KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, you know, Megyn, this has been going on for quite some time. I mean, Mr. Trump has already talked about the "Washington Post" assigning all these journalists to him just to write pieces of the failing enterprise, and this is what they do to bring, to drive traffic. It's called click bait. That's what they do. And just because you're a media outfit doesn't mean you get a front row seat in the campaign.

They are still going to continue to cover Mr. Trump. This is not going to make it easier for them to go out there and write horrible pieces like that because to insinuate that Donald Trump says the president was involved with what happened in Orlando is absolutely absurd and offensive. And with regards to Mr. Trump's statement, he's obviously right.

KELLY: What did he mean? What did he mean Katrina? What did he mean with there's something going on?

PIERSON: That's what I was going to say, Megyn. He's obviously right. Something is going on. Here we are 40 hours after the fact and even today President Obama refused to even say the word Islam when talking about this incident. He refused it.

KELLY: What do you mean?

PIERSON: ...domestic terrorism. He means that something is wrong. Why do we have a president that refuses to talk about the problem? We just had Americans butchered, murdered, and he refuses to acknowledge the radical Islam extreme as that.

KELLY: Well, he said that. I mean, he has said the reason. He said the reason, Julie, -- he has said, which he doesn't feel that the language is important. He thinks it's actually going to play in the terrorists' hands. But the question I have for you is, you know, your thoughts on Trump's banning the "Washington Post" and whether there was something, whether Trump deserves the benefit of the doubt on this -- on this there's something going on claim.

ROGINSKY: You know this were the first time he said it. I might give him the benefit of the doubt, but when you have going back to 2010, allegation for this president, somehow on his failures (ph), somehow with fellow travelers, somehow a mentoring candidate, a potential Muslim, then I have to say no, it's not something you give the benefit of the doubt to because it consistently happens. And look, you ultimately, whether you like the "Washington Post" or not, you cannot continue to ban public outlets like this.

PIERSON: But this is also a president who has gone out there and in public speeches and said that...

KELLY: I got to leave it at that.

PIERSON: ...civilization owes a debt to Islam. What does that mean?

KELLY: Okay. I got to leave it at that, thoughts to ponder during the break. We'll be right back with Mark Fuhrman.



JOHN MINA, ORLANDO POLICE CHIEF: Based on information we received from the suspect and from the hostages and people inside, we believe further loss of life was imminent. I made the decision to commence the rescue operation and do the explosive breach.


KELLY: Well, that was the Orlando police chief defending his department's decision to send in the SWAT teams three hours after Orlando terrorist Omar Mateen opened fire on the Pulse nightclub. And while some police experts have suggested that the decision to wait may have cost people their lives, our next guest thinks that decision is not as simple as some would have you believe.

Mark Fuhrman is a Fox News contributor, former LAPD homicide detective. So some are saying that the protocol, Mark, would have been to enter immediately and suggesting this is a risk adverse SWAT commander. You say not so. Tell us.

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, you can't enter immediately. The shooting spree had ceased at that moment and there were silence. And then the game changer once SWAT and all officers set up a perimeter and surge (ph) to make any kind of assessment was when the suspect called 911 and claimed that he was an Isis terrorist.

And that is a game changer because of the possibility of IED explosive devices at the entryways, suicide vests and multiple suspects, so they had to get some kind of eyes and ears, electronic eyes and ears in the location. They had to interview some witnesses. The officer that exchanged fire with the suspect, they had to have some intelligence before they gained entry.

KELLY: So you think this is a case of Monday morning quarterbacking where people just say hey, you had three hours, you should have gone in there.

FUHRMAN: Absolutely. It's Monday morning quarterbacking because these SWAT officers trained specifically for incidents like this looking at Paris and Belgium and San Bernardino and every other terrorist attack in the world that has a confined area in a civilian location with civilian hostages. Can you imagine if they made entry quickly and they had a wall of hostages between them and the suspect? The suspect gets to fire, officers can't.

KELLY: And this is said to be an elite squad that knows what it's doing, but this gentleman making most of the criticism is firing at the chief. Not so much the actual guys. Mark, great to see you. Thank you for your insights. We'll be right back. Don't go away.


KELLY: Two nights ago more than 100 people were shot in a nightclub 300 yards up the road. Half of them were taken to a hospital not far away. And tonight, that hospital says all those patients have a positive prognosis and appear to be improving. I'm Megyn Kelly. We'll see you tomorrow.

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