This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 2, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, Donald Trump under fire at this moment for an unbelievable shot at a Hispanic judge hearing the fraud case against him. We'll have that for you in a moment.
First, a no-holds bar preview of what is to come in a likely general election match-up between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
Good evening and welcome to a busy "Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Less than a week away from the last primary contests, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Trump turning their attention to each other. Building over this past week in culminating today the two front-runners fiercely attacking the other's qualifications to be the next commander-in-chief. Just hours ago in a highly anticipated speech in California, Mrs. Clinton delivering a nearly 40-minute indictment of Donald Trump. Mr. Trump not backing down. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE GOP PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look at the war in Iraq, if you look at what she did with Libya, which is a total catastrophe.
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I find what he says about foreign policy and national security not just offensive but dangerous.
TRUMP: The Hillary Clinton foreign policy legacy is absolute, total chaos.
CLINTON: Donald Trump is an unqualified loose cannon who cannot get near the most powerful job in the world. And it is up to us to say no!
TRUMP: Hillary is not a talented person. In fact, she's a person with absolutely no natural talent. All you have to do is watch her speak.
CLINTON: Donald Trump's ideas aren't just different. They are dangerously incoherent.
TRUMP: She's one of the worst secretaries of state in the history of our country. Now she wants to be our president. Remember the famous phone call at 3:00 in the morning she'll answer the call. Guess what. She was sleeping. She was sleeping like a baby. Don't wake me up. Of course, she took the calls from her slimy friends.
CLINTON: Imagine if he had not just his Twitter account at his disposal when he's angry, but America's entire arsenal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Marc Thiessen, former chief speechwriter to President George W. Bush and a FOX News contributor. And Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee. Good to see you both.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good evening.
MARC THIESSEN, FORMER CHIEF SPEECHWRITER FOR PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: Good to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: Boy, it was Hillary Clinton like we haven't seen her in this campaign today. She was in rare form and even her critics were praising her manner but quick to condemn the glass house from which she threw some of those stones. That's according to the critics, Marc.
THIESSEN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, it takes hutzpah for Hillary Clinton, the architect of Barack Obama's disastrous foreign policy to say that anybody else is going to make the world more dangerous, that's like an arsonist warning about the danger of playing with fire. I mean, she has made the world far more dangerous. Obama's own director of National Intelligence testified before Congress that in his 50 years in the intelligence community, he has never seen the world beset by more crises and problems than he has under this administration.
So this is all Hillary Clinton's doing. She said, I'm going to go toe-to- toe with Vladimir Putin. She's responsible for the Russian reset that was such a disaster.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, Marc --
THIESSEN: She said that -- hold on. She said that she's going to support our allies. She's the one who pulled the plug and pulling them in the Czech Republic when they stepped up, to had missile defense.
ZIMMERMAN: You know, Marc --
KELLY: Let him finish.
THIESSEN: Pull the plug on it and threw them under the bus when they were standing up to Russia. So, this is a woman who is now -- she says that Donald Trump wants to befriend a dictator, she's the woman who called Bashar al Assad a reformer who said Hosni Mubarak, the dictator of Egypt, is a friendly friend.
KELLY: Go ahead, Robert.
ZIMMERMAN: Marc, I think you're getting your facts from Trump University.
The reason that Hillary Clinton's speech was so important and was regarded as being such a turning point in this campaign, is because she would bring up many of the same issues that we're hearing from Republican conservative members of Congress and our generals in terms of condemning Donald Trump's foreign policy. For example, the Republican conservative chairman of the Homeland Security Committee and the Congress says that Donald Trump's temporary ban on Muslims into the U.S. would be a recruiting tool for ISIS.
We have leading generals like Ray Odierno or Lieutenant General Mark Kelting (ph) has made the point that in fact the Trump strategy, bomb everywhere or exploiting fears with dangerous and counterproductive to fighting terrorism. So, I think Mark Kenneth, excuse me, I mispronounced his name, Mark Kenneth, we have generals, we have members of Congress stepping up and making a point that this is not a debate about liberals versus conservatives. What Hillary Clinton made it very clear today, this is a debate about rational stable foreign policy --
KELLY: She will -- that's the same Marc is that, she was going for, you know, the theme of the -- of my own interview with Donald Trump which was temperament. She was going after him on his temperament which is something we've heard repeatedly about whether this is a person and this is what she said today, who should have access to the nuclear code.
ZIMMERMAN: That is exactly right.
THIESSEN: This is exactly -- I agree with that 100 percent. And it's an interesting phenomenon what is happening in the foreign policy debate, in this campaign. Because both candidates are going for a segment of the other person's base. The other party's base. Hillary Clinton today in her speech was going after center-right internationalists saying Donald Trump is a dangerous isolationist and I'm a moderate internationalist that you can support. Donald Trump, on the other hand, is attacking Hillary Clinton from the Left. You showed that clip where he says, she voted for the war in Iraq, she took us into Libya. That was a disaster. That's Bernie Sanders' line. He's trying to appeal the Sanders vote. He's attacking her on trade.
ZIMMERMAN: But the reality here, Mark --
THIESSEN: Because those are what the Sanders --
ZIMMERMAN: Mark, the reality of the poll -- look at the most recent Wall Street Journal the Wall Street Journal being part of the Fox News family, in their poll came out May 24th.
KELLY: Wait. Are you suggesting some ideological thing there?
ZIMMERMAN: No, I am not. I'm just saying "The Wall Street Journal" on the lefty, you cannot say is part of the left-wing media.
KELLY: Let's just set the -- the polling units of FOX News, of the "Wall Street Journal," none of them have partisan --
So it's irrelevant to mention ideology. Go ahead.
ZIMMERMAN: Well, I didn't mention ideology. I mentioned, because there is always the push back is that they are part of the left-wing media.
KELLY: I don't like it when people say, oh, it's an NBC pool. That doesn't mean anything. They hire independent. The pollsters want to get it right. Go ahead. Make your point.
ZIMMERMAN: You're totally correct. And I stand corrected. The point simply here is that in this "Wall Street Journal" poll on May 24th, it was asked, who do you trust in foreign policy, Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump by a margin of 26 percent, America stands with --
KELLY: She's killing him on foreign policy, he's killing her on economic policy, however. Go ahead.
ZIMMERMAN: And now the commander-in-chief test, she he beats him by over - - by about ten points. So, my point simply is, on the foreign policy debate, it's not a left/right debate using a consensus form in support of Hillary Clinton and a rejection of Donald Trump's erratic, irrational behavior.
KELLY: Marc? Final word.
THIESSEN: Yes. It is a left/right debate, it's just the debate of the sides are switched. Donald Trump is losing, is ceding the traditional Republican foreign policies dominance because he's using foreign policy to go after Sanders voters. Sanders voters didn't like the war in Iraq, they didn't like the intervention in Libya, don't like trade deals, don't like what we did to Gadhafi. So, he is going after those voters by attacking Hillary Clinton from the left.
ZIMMERMAN: Good luck with that strategy.
THIESSEN: And she is trying to repeal. And she is trying to do the same thing.
KELLY: I got to go.
THIESSEN: Good luck to her with the feelings of the right.
KELLY: Good to see you both.
ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you.
THIESSEN: Thank you.
KELLY: Also breaking tonight, Donald Trump just launched a new attack based on ethnicity against the federal judge hearing the class action fraud suit against Trump University. In a just released interview with the Wall Street Journal, the paper writes, quote, "Mr. Trump said the background of the judge who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the Southern U.S. border. I'm building a wall. It's an inherent conflict of interest, Mr. Trump said."
Bill Bennett is a former education secretary under President Reagan, he is hosted the Bill Bennett podcast on BillBennett.com and he holds a law degree from Harvard University. Bill, this is -- you tell me. I'm a journalist here at FOX News and I've been doing legal commentary here for ten years. This is out of line.
BILL BENNETT, FORMER EDUCATION SECRETARY: Yes, it's out of line. It's a shame, too. Because it was a good day, it was an important day for Trump with the Paul Ryan thing, which I know you want to get to.
BENNETT: But it's unfortunate, look, to refer to the guy's ethnicity as grounds for his decision, who knows. We don't know what motivated the guy. But we believe in this country that ethnicity is not intellectual destiny that you can overcome all sorts of things and you can be Independent. I'm Irish. That doesn't mean I support the IRA. So, again, well, I think what we said last time, I said last time to you, Megyn, he takes a step forward or two steps forward and a step back and steps on his own foot.
KELLY: So, first of all, people are saying that this judge is a member of La Raza, the group that's been protesting Donald Trump. He isn't. He's a member of a Hispanic Lawyers Association.
KELLY: That has no partisan stripes, whatsoever. They support Hispanic lawyers and judges. That's it. So let's be clear on that. Secondly, the man is not Mexican. Donald Trump keeps saying, he's American, his parents are Mexican, he's a Mexican heritage. He was born in Indiana. Third, he has no conflict of interest, Bill. Now Donald Trump is saying that the judge needs to be investigated, someone should look into him just because he's ruled against Donald Trump in this litigation repeatedly, he certified the class, he denied the judgment for summary judgment. That doesn't make you biased. It doesn't.
BENNETT: No, it doesn't. Big mistake. And I hope he stops with this. In fact, I hope he stops with a lot of the personal stuff that he's been doing the last week or two. We thought he was at a point of new departure. It would going to be more serious. Again, I think the Ryan thing is so consequential. It's a shame this has to happen --
HILLARY: Paul Ryan endorsed Donald Trump today is what Bill is referring too. That's right. And that's what's going to be what we talk about tonight until this news broke moments ago that Trump continues to attack a sitting federal judge which, who by the way, did a lot to fight the drug cartels when he was a prosecutor, based on his ethnicity, suggesting that he has an inherent -- inherent conflict of interest because of his heritage.
HILLARY: A Hispanic cannot judge a case against me. That is what Trump is saying. Explicitly Bill, listen. And let me tell you, when he does this, I guarantee you right now that this judge is getting threats and vitriol and who knows what else. And this is what I was trying to ask Trump about when I sat with him, Bill. We have the sound bite. This is what I was trying to ask him about. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Have you given any thought in this position to the power that your messaging has on the lives of the people you target and on the millions of people who take their queue from you?
TRUMP: I have. I have. And I see suffering. I see tremendous suffering and I understand. I have a very big heart.
KELLY: You know what I'm saying, when Donald Trump targets somebody and says this person is bad, that person is bad, it creates a firestorm in those people's lives.
TRUMP: But it's in response to something that they did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I mean, what do you make of it because now he's out saying this judge is a total disgrace, that they on look into him and he's on the precipice of becoming the president of the United States.
BENNETT: Yes. He's got to pull back. He's got to think things through. He's got to get much better advice. But he's got to think himself. He's not just talking to his cheerleader, his cheering group. His choir. He's now talking to all of the American people, all the American people are looking at Donald Trump saying, is this guy sensible enough? Is he stable enough? Can we trust him? So, he needs to bear in mind that audience. He's got to get better, he's got to get more sober, he's got to get more measured and he's got to get more fair-minded in what he says. He's got a change of audience.
KELLY: The judge --
KELLY: The judge cannot respond, just so the audience knows, he is prohibited by the judicial code of conduct from responding.
KELLY: He released exhibits in the Trump University case, most of which I had already seen. They've already made public. So, that's not, you know - -
KELLY: In any event. There's no conflict. There is no conflict of interest whatsoever based on his ethnicity.
KELLY: So, just to clear up this man's reputation, who's a sitting federal judge and has served the nation for four years in that capacity. I do want to ask you about what Trump would probably like to see in the headlines tonight which is that Paul Ryan finally came around in an attempt to unite the party.
BENNETT: Such a big deal because Paul Ryan is a gigantic figure, much beloved by most Republicans and most conservatives. Some don't like him. But we've been waiting. And he said in his statement in the editorial he wrote for the Janesville Newspaper, we've had many conversations at great lengths and we agree that we can push this legislative agenda together and he said Donald Trump will help it. That's a big deal. That's a big endorsement.
That unites the party and can unite the party. All the more reason to take a new tone on some of these other things like what we started with.
BENNETT: But Ryan is a blessing here, Ryan saying, okay, he's okay, is very good. I don't know what happens to the Never Trump people now. The national review people, the think tank people because, you know, they worship the ground that Paul Ryan walks on.
KELLY: I don't think they are going to be inspired by his remarks on Judge Curiel.
BENNETT: No, they're not.
KELLY: I mean, the GOP needs to win more Hispanics than they won the last time around. There aren't enough white people to get it done.
BENNETT: Well, the point is, as you know, as we say ad nauseam, it's addition, not subtraction. He got one with Ryan but he lost one with the judge. He's got to get more pluses than minuses. Absolutely.
KELLY: Great to see you, Bill.
BENNETT: Thank you, Megyn. Thank you.
KELLY: Also tonight, a hot story developing on the media, gun control in the 2016 race. Nomiki Konst and Dana Loesch are ready to rumble.
Plus, the President riled up some folks with his directive on transgender men and women, including this ACLU leader who just quit her job because she says these rules go too far, too far for her in the ACLU. She's live in "The Kelly File" exclusive.
And then if Mr. Trump versus President Obama in a fight that gets uglier by the hour, Charles Krauthammer is next on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This is a president who doesn't have a clue. And this president now is very interesting because he's going to start campaigning. Well, if he campaigns, that means I'm allowed to hit him just like I hit Bill Clinton, I guess, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, as Hillary Clinton ramps up her message against Donald Trump, President Obama and Trump also taking their sparring to new heights. As Mr. Obama starts actively campaigning to make sure he's succeeded by a Democrat. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The Republican nominee for president has already said he'd dismantle all of these rules that we passed. That is crazy.
TRUMP: If he campaigns, and I think he wants to, because he wants to keep this terrible agenda going where everybody is ripping us, where the world is ripping us off --
OBAMA: In today's economy, we can't put up walls around America. We're not going to round up 11 million people.
TRUMP: This is a president who doesn't have a clue. And this president now is very interested because he's going to start campaigning. Well, if he campaigns, that means I'm allowed to hit him just like I hit Bill Clinton, I guess, right?
OBAMA: But don't think that actually this agenda is going to help you. It's not designed to help you.
TRUMP: He's a total lightweight and now he's going to be campaigning. And you know what, he shouldn't campaign. He should go out and do the job that he's supposed to be doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now Dr. Charles Krauthammer, he is a Fox News contributor, and author of the bestseller, "Things that Matter."
Charles, good to see you. Wow! I mean, when you see it like that. It underscores both of their gifts in a way, does it not?
DR. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, I do think it's an advantage to the Democrats simply because if you've been in the office for seven-and-a-half years, you necessarily have the aura of being presidential. You can't help it. Now, some presidents are so unpopular because of their policies that campaigning doesn't help but Obama has just gone over the 50 percent mark. So, I do think it helps whoever is running on the Democratic side and the other thing is that it scatters Trump's fire, it's easier just to concentrate on Hillary, if you have to concentrate also on Obama, it makes it a little more difficult.
Trump is ready for the fight. He relishes the fight and it's one that, interestingly enough, the Republicans really didn't do in the primary season. Normally in those debates you go after the incumbent. Everybody piles on. But instead, they went after each other in kind of a circular firing squad. And Obama really escaped almost unscathed from I think it was 11 debates. His name hardly ever came up. Well now it's going to be up and it's quite a challenge. It's one thing to shoot down wards but when you're a challenger and you're shooting upwards at a president who at least right now is reasonably popular, it's going to be tough.
KELLY: Uh-huh. And you wonder what Donald Trump is going to do with President Obama because he's got -- there's a lot of fodder there in terms of his policies that he's pushed through over the last seven-and-a-half years. But Trump likes to come after you personally, you know, little Marco, lying Ted, low-energy Jeb. And, you know, is that going to work on the president of the United States?
KRAUTHAMMER: No. And it would be a big mistake. First of all, in general it doesn't because there is this aura, people respect the office. And with Obama there's a peculiar phenomenon, if you go back over the eight years of his presidency, there's a lot more antipathy to his policies than to the man. If you look at the personal popularity, it was generally, even in the worst days with ObamaCare and the bad economy and people being down on what he was doing, there was always a sense that he was an okay guy.
KRAUTHAMMER: At least that's what you saw in the polls. I think it would be a mistake to go after someone, who A is reasonably popular and attractive in that sense. I mean, he was charismatic in '08, he's no longer charismatic but he would change a kind of a goodwill towards his persona. And I think necessarily carries the aura of the office. So you've got to be real careful to go after him. It's one thing to go after Hillary who is rather unpopular, it shows up in all of the polls will be a different proposition to go after Obama.
KELLY: Yes. Trump obviously already did that a couple years ago where he suggested Barack Obama was not born in the United States and may be Muslim and so on. He's abandoned that so far in his presidential run but we'll see if they get into it whether that comes back up. You made news by suggesting you are open-minded now to voting for Donald Trump. After everything he has said about you. And I realize it's not about you. But you have not been a Trump fan. So how did you get to this point?
KRAUTHAMMER: I'm always open-minded. I have said on Fox, I've said it elsewhere that I can't see how I could ever vote for Donald Trump. I respect my colleagues who think otherwise that it's the lessor of the two evils but I was, you know, trained as a physician, I'm open to empirical evidence, you make me the case, I am open-minded. But right now, I would have no choice but to refrain from pulling the lever for him.
KELLY: Charles, always a pleasure, sir.
KRAUTHAMMER: My pleasure. Thank you.
KELLY: Well, for the second time in a week, a major media outlet is taking heat for being misleading in a gun control report. And Howie Kurtz is next on what is going on here.
Plus, who ordered someone to edit the record -- that should be record. Also, could be pronounced record depending on the sentence.
We edited the record. Who ordered the order, who ordered the -- you know what I'm trying to say. Somebody got rid of this moment, with James Rosen and Jen Psaki of the State Department. Now they are very defensive about it and Brian Kilmeade has the story. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to thank James Rosen, your correspondent, for bringing this to my and attention, because if he hadn't a couple of weeks ago, I would never have known that this occurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Well, for the second time in a week, a major media outlet is taking heat for being misleading in the gun control report. First it was Yahoo's global news anchor Katie Couric's new gun documentary where they used quote, "misleading edits," they've admitted that, that made a gun rights group look dumbfounded on a question about background checks. And then in a New York Times op-ed lead to the head of a gun groups saying, the author of that op-ed made, quote, "selective edits to his interview on the subject of guns."
Howard Kurtz is the host of Fox News' "MediaBuzz." He joins me now. Howie, so, I mean, what does this evidence tell us?
HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": Well, if Katie Couric's deceptively edited gun documentary, it was a journalistic felony and I believe it was. It will come back to that. This falls in the category of a misdemeanor. It's hardly surprising that liberal "New York Times" op-ed page would have an outside NRA critic named Alan Berlow write a piece. He interviewed a guy, just to drill down this for a moment named Jeff Folloder, head of a gun collector's group and he said in the piece that Folloder has no fan of the National Firearms Act and would like to change the law.
But also he quoted him as saying it's not true, that if you register a gun under this particular law, it means the ATF can show up and knock on your door at any time. Folloder takes exceptions said it was out of context, and said that he implied that he was okay with the law when he actually wasn't.
KELLY: Basically, he's saying it was taken out of context in the way that didn't jive with the truth.
KURTZ: But the author did interview him and --
KELLY: So, now, on the Katie Couric front, she has come out -- let's just show him the clip. Because what happened was that they interviewed a gun control group -- I should say, a gun rights group. And this is what aired in the documentary under the gun. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If there are no background checks for gun purchasers, how do you prevent felons or terrorists from purchasing a gun?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And there was eight seconds of silence when, in fact, there was no silence and the people started firing off answers to her. Substantive, well thought out answers, in fact.
KURTZ: Yes. They were made to look like speechless morons when, in fact. They did answer the questions. Look, Katie Couric has had a very successful career. It's unfortunate that it took her several days to do the right thing and accept responsibility as executive producer of this documentary for the grossly deceptive editing by her director who is openly anti-NRA.
KELLY: But Katie -- so, Katie didn't do it. She said in her statement, "I saw the screening and I asked the director about that. The director said she had only added a beat for, quote, "dramatic effect."
And then, you know, it was called to Katie's attention what actually happened. And she said, look, I regret it. I take responsibility we misrepresented this exchange.
KURTZ: Right. She did...
KELLY: I mean, it may have taken her too long but she got there.
KURTZ: Yes, she did the right thing. She did question it, and not vigorously enough as she knows this. But here is a classic case of media bias. Here is a controversy involving one of the world's most famous journalists and no coverage at all, not a single segment by CNN, on MSNBC, on NBC, on ABC, on CBS.
New York Times has written about it. The Washington Post has written about it. Imagine, you don't have to think very hard.
KELLY: Is that right?
KURTZ: Just imagine. It was a right-leading film and gun control activists were made to look deceptively stupid, as these gun rights activists. I think that would have been the story for these other networks.
KELLY: I think we would have seen it elsewhere. I did -- I will say there was one -- there was a mention on CNN. So they...
KURTZ: By a guest but not by a whole store of panel.
KELLY: Oh, wow. Howie, great to see you.
KURTZ: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Joining me now with now, Dana Loesch, author of "Hands Off my Gun" and author of the new book "Fly Over Nation," also Nomiki Konst, a Bernie Sanders supporter and host of The Filter on Sirius XM progress. Good to see you both.
DANA LOESCH, THE BLAZE HOST: Thanks, Megyn.
NOMIKI KONST, THE FILTER SHOW HOST: Nice to see you.
KELLY: So, I mean, Dana, you're probably thinking, yes, I'm used to this. I mean, it's not like the mainstream media, they are not fans of the Second Amendment. Am I wrong?
LOESCH: Yes. You're not at all, Megyn. Not that they're not fan of the Second Amendment, it's not just that they have no -- most of them have no idea what they are talking about and it's clear when they tried to describe things.
For instance, HBO sportsman, when they were talking to Jim Sullivan about the AR-15, they were try -- the way that they edited his answer to which he took great exception, he was simply saying he was surprised that the AR-15 was doing so well as a civilian choice all of these years later.
And they made his answer out like he couldn't believe that people were buying them. They're just the same thing as M-16s, which they are not. We've seen this kind of deceptive editing over and over again and it's not just deceptive editing where it concerns talking to a pro to a people.
Now we've seen deceptive editing with the facts, we've seen deceptive editing with statistics. Just as a way to push this bunk narrative. And you know what, it gets tough after a while.
KELLY: It's tough, Nomiki. Because there's no question that reporters bring certain personal views to any story that they are going to cover. But when you have sort of most of them walking in lockstep on an issue, like gun control, don't you see how bias can seep in here and there in a way that would be very frustrating to Second Amendment advocates?
KONST: Well, I see that the Second Amendment community that advocates is a very different type of communities than those that are lobbying the government right now. You know, 91 percent of Americans, including gun owners, are in support of tighter gun laws right now to close out those background check loopholes.
Now let's remember that a lot of the statistics that are being propagated by a lot of these lobbyists and the gun manufacturers are difficult to find because in 1996, the republican -- the republican Congress basically ended all gun lobbying and gun -- excuse me, gun research.
I mean, we can no longer research any sort of gun violence. That's the problem. Is that you have the media which is trying to cherry-pick analyses. And you had this Harvard study like the one that was a few years ago that studied 2007 to 2010, which showed that areas where there were stronger gun laws, states with stronger gun laws have less gun violence. And that's -- well it is true. You can look it up at the Harvard study.
LOESCH: I read the book on it. It's not.
KONST: I understand you wrote a book on it and you also...
KELLY: OK. Let her respond. Let her respond. Go ahead, Dana.
LOESCH: Because there is a lot of stuff. Megyn, this is exactly her answer is exactly what we're talking about. First off, she's citing that 91 percent number, that was the poll that was paid for by Michael Bloomberg.
I mean, if we're going to sit here and talk objectively about gun control, can we please not use statistics that have been paid for by the grandfather of gun control...
KONST: You're paying the NRA.
LOESCH: And it was just a small example of less a fewer than 250 people and it was a push/pull question because I looked at the cross tabs.
Furthermore, they owned -- I report that the president commission, Megyn, in 2013, there was a report that he did with the CDC, which showed defensive gun uses used 500,000 to 3.3 million instances a year. No one ever talks about that.
KONST: So, let's talk about that.
LOESCH: It's backed overpowered.
KONST: So, if you want to talk about defensive gun use, only one time in the last 30 years, that's 1.6 percent has defensive gun used actually worked. There's been statistics on this.
KONST: This is actually the president who is the...
KELLY: What does that mean? I mean, let me just ask you to clarify that. Nomiki, what do you mean they actually worked.
KONST: So, when someone uses a gun in self-defense in a mass shooting, only one person in the last 30 years has actually been able to accomplish that and that's partly because active shooter training is a very difficult form of training. In fact...
LOESCH: No, it's not done.
KELLY: I've got to run. Go ahead, Dana.
KELLY: I'm no Dana Loesch, but you know what?
LOESCH: No, Nomiki, no. I've done active shooter training. I've done all of that stuff.
KONST: That's crazy. And that's your anecdote.
LOESCH: And you use this small fire mass shootings.
KELLY: I've got to go. I've got to go. But, Dana, quick respond.
KONST: We had the highest rate of gun violence in Denver than any civilized country.
KELLY: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Don't talk over to each other. I've got to go. Dana. Quick last word?
LOESCH: No. I think people need to pay attention to defensive gun use because it vastly, Megyn, vastly outweighs criminal usage. That the gun control is want to focus on. Yes, we do the CDC report commissioned by Barack Obama in 2013.
LOESCH: Not only that, but the FBI uniform crime reports in my book, "Hands Off My Gun." Thanks, Megyn.
KONST: Which says...
KELLY: I tell you what, if I'm in trouble. I have Dana Loesch is next to me. All right, ladies, great to see you both.
KONST: Thank you so much.
KELLY: Still ahead, dramatic development in the story of how someone in the State Department tried to edit the record of a key exchange with our own James Rose.
Plus, the president has riled up some folks with his directive on transgender men and transgender women, including this ACLU leader who just quit her job because she says these rules go too far. She's live in a Kelly File exclusive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: What continues to happen is you have transgender kids in school. And they get bullied. And they get ostracized and it's tough for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, the State Department found itself on the ropes again today after having to admit to an ugly attempt to change the record on how the administration handled the Iran deal.
And this all goes back to a 2013 exchange between then spokesperson at the State Department, Jen Psaki, who is now the White House communications director, and our own chief Washington correspondent James Rosen.
An exchange that mysteriously disappeared from the State Department's web site until Fox started asking questions.
Trace Gallagher is live at our West Coast newsroom with what is happening right now. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, at issue is the line of questioning at a 2013 State Department press briefing concerning the Iran nuclear deal where then-State Department spokesperson, Jen Psaki appeared to acknowledge that she misled the media for the good of national security.
But when James Rosen recently tried to pull video of that exchange from a public archive, those minutes have been edited out. Psaki issued a statement saying it wasn't her, quote "I had no knowledge of nor would I have approved of any form of editing or cutting my briefing transcript."
But in a responding e-mail to Psaki, James Rosen pointed out, the transcript was never in question, quoting, "The briefing transcript remained unaltered the entire time." Asking Psaki, "Do you want to issue a revised statement asserting the same for the video which was not altered?"
Psaki fired back that her statement also applies to the video and then accused Rosen of vilifying her. Quoting again, "Hopefully you will find the time to spend on the range of global events happening in the world in between attacking my character."
Rosen says he never assailed her character nor implied that she was responsible for the mysterious edit. And today, the current State Department's spokesperson, John Kirby complimented Rosen. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I want to thank James Rosen, your correspondent, for bringing this to my attention because if he hadn't a couple of weeks ago, I would have never known that this occurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Kirby also says the editor who cut the video doesn't know who gave the order but Kirby maintains there is no cover-up. Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining me now with reaction, Brian Kilmeade, co- host of "Fox & Friends" and author of "Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli Pirates," which is a great book, worth your time. Good to see you, Brian. So, very -- so, Kirby wants to thank James Rosen.
BRIAN KILMEADE, "FOX & FRIENDS" CO-HOST: Right.
KELLY: I don't know if I believe him.
KELLY: He's a nice man.
KELLY: But I'm not sure that was sincere.
KILMEADE: He's a rear admiral and now he became the spokesperson for the State Department. And he joined us on Fox and Friends this morning and that's how he said. He said, before we start anywhere I got to thanks James Rose for doing this.
Well, my biggest problem with the story and there's quite a few of them, is taht the fact is, we know the woman who edited it out. They first tried to tell us it was a glitch. Impossible for any human being to think it's a glitch, especially if you have any knowledge of the video.
KELLY: So, that piece states they lied initially and said it wasn't a glitch.
KELLY: It had been intentionally removed and they were dishonest about it?
KILMEADE: Exactly. So, Admiral Kirby came on and he said I talked to the editor and they don't remember who called, she doesn't remember who called her to say...
KELLY: Who gave the order.
KILMEADE: ... gave the order. Now there is a fine...
KELLY: If Rosen was asking her whether the administration ever misleads intentionally in pursuit of diplomacy, i.e., the Iran deal, and she with a wink of an odd basically said yes. So, it wasn't a great exchange for the State Department although perhaps it was too honest for Jen Psaki. Go ahead.
KILMEADE: There is a finite number of people that could possibly have called her and had the poll, had the background to be able to get her to edit. An intern couldn't say, hey, I have an idea, let's edit Jen Psaki.
KELLY: But Psaki has made it very clear it was not her. She did not give the order.
KILMEADE: And that's the exchange we saw today, it's on foxnews.com.
KELLY: Yes. he said I didn't order, the transcripts altered, I didn't order the videotape all.
KILMEADE: But I just have to say and sometimes you say things on camera, not you but human beings, other people, they say things on camera and you get out or you walk outside the studio and you know your boss is a little upset, your producer or for our cases second floor.
KELLY: You have been there many times.
KILMEADE: So, Jen Psaki, you've got to tell me that she had no idea that maybe people had problems with her candid response to James Rosen and that she just says, OK, I didn't hear anything?
KELLY: Well, she didn't go -- she didn't say whether they had problems or not. She was basically saying you're attacking my character by suggesting that I did when I'm telling you I didn't do it.
KILMEADE: Because she knew nothing about it.
KILMEADE: That's the big problem with this.
KELLY: That's possible. That's possible.
KILMEADE: I think if somebody goes out from CBS to ABC to AP, whatever it is, ask the -- usually the reporters have to ask themselves, where did I land with one of my questions? Where I really thought that I made progress and I had that spokesperson on their heels.
Go back and check the video and see if it's still there. Do you think it's possible that James Rosen had the only glitch?
KELLY: I think it's -- listen, I think it's great idea. I'm going to start doing that on all of my archived Kelly File segments.
KELLY: Any time a guest, you know, said something insulting or tears me down, it's gone. It's like it never happened.
KILMEADE: Right. And as far as I know, it hasn't.
KELLY: What is happening with the bible. We have news on the bible tonight.
KILMEADE: Right. There's some breaking news on the bible. And there's no doubt about it. If you take the bible is the most translated book in the world but for the first time we've translated it to the point where emojis are taking the place of actual words.
KILMEADE: As you know, when the cameras were not on we often talk about religion and the next generation of millennials. Why I don't care, Megyn. And it turns out is because the bible is not near langue, which is symbols. As you know emojis got big in Japan and they got big really here in 2014. So, the next generation, who was born in 1990 or in 2000 and they say...
KELLY: Look at it there.
KILMEADE: Yes. That's how they're telling the story. They did this thing using translated...
KELLY: That God is -- is that God or an angel?
KILMEADE: That's a smiley, God is happy and he sees the light. So, there's electricity in heaven. For me, that's good news. They use this translation engine called "lingo jam," and they are able to put the whole bible, all 66 books, into "lingo jam" and they came out with symbols.
KELLY: The other option is to just read the bible.
KILMEADE: Right. I'm trying to see. Nope, not going to do it. So, if they're going to look for the 80 emojis...
KELLY: If today the cliff notes for the bible. OK. I want to ask you about this.
KILMEADE: Right. Some people are upset by that. Some say it's pandering the next generation.
KELLY: So, apparently it's -- you know, have sort of the best-dressed list, and the social register and now here in New York they have taken it a step further.
KILMEADE: Right. Way overdue. you know, the most powerful 30 under 30. We've heard all of these different phrases to get people to buy magazines. Well, this is way overdue. Finally, people are ranking those under 1. Under 1 year old.
KILMEADE: Babies. This blog called well-rounded. Looks at parents who have somewhat success in their lives and their offspring and they talk about their great hopes for that offspring as if they just want to keep that thing going.
KELLY: The most influential babies in New York. It's come to that.
KILMEADE: Right. Look at some of the phrases that the parents have picked up and their toddlers. Margo has the biggest heart and full of happiness and love and laughter. She hopes it continues. He is already three months old and one thing we hope never changes his desire to learn. I would hope so because this thing called words, language, and tee. It all comes down the line. It's going to be fantastic.
KELLY: It's a newborn, for God's sake.
KILMEADE: We're ranking people under one. You talk pressuring children.
KELLY: It's officially the apocalypse.
KILMEADE: I agree.
KELLY: All right. I've got to go. That's it.
KELLY: Yes. Sorry.
KILMEADE: What do I do, then?
KELLY: Great to see you.
KILMEADE: I have nowhere to go.
KELLY: You have a show to do in like four hours.
KILMEADE: All right. Good. Bye. Thanks for having me.
KELLY: Well, it is the story that has social media in an uproar. Up next, we'll speak exclusively to the ACLU leader who just quit over the rights of non-trans women and children. That's next.
KELLY: Another Kelly File exclusive. The ACLU has been actively involved in nationwide efforts that allow transgender men and transgender women to use rest rooms that coincide with their gender identities.
But the head of the organization's Georgia chapter has just resigned. Maya Dillard Smith says the rights of non-trans women and children, including her own, are not being fairly considered and she joins me now. Maya, good to see you.
MAYA DILLARD SMITH, FORMER ACLU GEORGIA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Thanks for having me.
KELLY: So, what was -- what was the catalyst that made you leave your post as the head of the Georgia ACLU?
SMITH: Well, you know, I was really excited when the Georgia ACLU recruited me from California to arrive in the state that I think has enormous potential to advance civil liberties and civil rights in the American south.
And it became very evident to me that the ACLU and myself, were simply principally and philosophically unaligned on a number of issues and I found myself at the crux of the transgender rights and transgender bathroom controversy...
KELLY: It's not an anti-trans thing. I mean, you say you actually were looking forward to learning more, you don't -- you didn't know a lot about it but you had an incident that made -- that gave you a lot of pause.
SMITH: That's correct. Before my recruitment to Georgia in my native California, the Bay Area where I'm from, I took my young daughters, I've got three daughters, I took the youngest to into a women's rest room, a public woman's restroom, and shortly after we were in entered three transgender young adults all over six feet, all with really deep voices all obviously men.
And my children were visibly frightened. I was very uncomfortable and it engendered a lot of questions from my daughters for which I was ill prepared to answer. And so, since my arrival at the ACLU I have been actively seeking out information and asking questions as simple as, as we advance is there is an effort to advance transgender rights, what are the implications on the rights of women and girls, what are the implications on the rights of parents.
KELLY: And I think it's true because you say you are open minded and you've been public that you had an incident in your own past that has made this a particularly difficult issue for you that you feel vulnerable when exposed in a rest room. But you're open-minded, you want more information, and yet, you felt like the ACLU was not open minded.
SMITH: I certainly felt like there is not an opportunity to have robust discourse on the competing civil rights that are implicated not only in the context of bathrooms and the advancement of transgender rights, but even in the context of religious refusal bills which you've seen across the country.
You know, there being a very narrow conversation between LGBT equality and religious freedom, but in the HB-757 in Georgia, as well as HB-2 in North Carolina there are lots of implications of all other categories of protected classes of people.
KELLY: It's interesting. And you're a democrat. You're a democrat but you have -- you have different viewpoints and you want to sort of be able to have there be room for a discussion of those as we take a look at what our civil liberties actually stand for.
KELLY: We're not finding the forum in the ACLU. It's a fascinating story, Maya. Thank you for being so honest about it and coming on.
SMITH: Sure. You know, I'm really excited to stimulate this.
KELLY: We got to go. We have a hard break but I appreciate you being here. All the best.
SMITH: Thank you.
KELLY: And don't forget to miss all of our coverage tomorrow beginning with "Special Report" into "On the Record" followed by "The O'Reilly Factor," "The Kelly File," and Sean Hannity who is here now. Have a great day, everybody. See you tomorrow.
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