Protesters clash with police outside Trump rallies

Protesters clash with police outside Trump rally


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 25, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Wow. Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Eboni Williams, Eric Bolling and cotton balls are her pompoms -- Dana Perino, "The Five."

So here's what we learned from the "loserpalooza" in Albuquerque last night:

No protester could explain why they were there beyond employing a combination of F-words and gesticulating fingers; not a complete sentence among the cretins. Oddly, their printed signs were articulate, but they weren't. That's what we call a clue: Someone sponsored this action. They also looked out of shape, clearly not living in a competitive environment, unless it's a contest in grievances. I wonder if they get paid for that by the hour.

Now many carried flags from another country. So who does that help, really? Does it rhyme with "Trump"? Maybe he's paying them. Hmm. But it's a reminder that while candidates talk about the housing bubble, it's the identity bubble that the left created and inflated and is about to burst.

The restraint of the police reflects present-day reality. Hampered by negative media scrutiny called the Ferguson effect, it recasts their job, protecting society as evidence of bigotry. I can't say I blame them for holding back.

And speaking of the media, if we aren't careful, we may incentivize more thuggery, through the use of our roving, thirsty magnifying glass. But that's the media's job, you can't tell them not to cover a riot. Just remember, as you do your job, though, don't jump on the cops for doing theirs, especially when it gets ugly, and you know it will.

So Eric, this had to be planned, right? The fact that none of them could articulate what they were there for, but all the signs were very professionally done.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah. And we've seen that in time and time again. There were a couple of George Soros funded websites that were promoting some of these prior protests. I'm not saying that this one was the same. But yeah, clearly those signs were pre-made. They were ready for. That's why when we asked Jonathan Hunt, it looks spontaneous. He said, no, no, no. It looks like there are some sorts of planning going on here. But the question -- you talk about the Ferguson effect. The Ferguson effect meaning cops have to hold back, doing their jobs because they may be accused of being too harsh or too --


BOLLING: Or bigoted.


BOLLING: But what -- who are you bigoted against? Trump detractors now? So my question would be, why not go hard on these kind of guys. I kind of understand why you want to play a little bit safe .

GUTFELD: They're Latinos, though.

BOLLING: . when race is the issue.


BOLLING: But -- OK, fair enough. You know what, you are right, the one issue that they had was immigration .


BOLLING: . and it was Latinos most -- almost primarily Latinos. But I don't know that they're actually fighting a race issue more along fighting a guy they don't like.


BOLLING: Donald Trump's idea what he thinks immigration policy should be. I -- look, I guess you're right.

GUTFELD: I'll take that, Kimberly.



GUILFOYLE: Meaning, I don't recognize any of these people from Latino issue forums, you know what I mean? They just sprung up out of nowhere. I mean, I just don't know how politically active and involved. I'm sure there are people there that, in fact, belong to causes that are very dedicated to the Latino community. That I think is good. But when I -- when you cross the line and you engage in lawlessness, and you're throwing things of fire at horses, and you're throwing rocks at police, and you're throwing rocks at reporters, that is not something that should be condoned or sanctioned. It doesn't matter what color your skin is, what race you claim, what group you belong in. That is lawlessness. That's where you got to say, you know what? Enough is enough.

GUTFELD: You know, Eboni, if I -- I'm wondering if you remove everyone there who is holding an iPhone and camera, there might be three actual activists. Do you think this is just one big sham, people running around with cameras hoping to catch something, and basically it's just this kind of self-indulgent exercise?

EBONI WILLIAMS, GUEST CO-HOST: I'm going to say, yeah. I agree, Greg. I think the platform incentivizes a lot of people. They want to be seen. But then when you ask them why they're there, they can't tell you why. They really don't have a political statement that they are trying to make. They just want to be seen on a broadcast. But I think on a deeper level, there are actually at least two types of group present around it. There was actually an organized group that had a political message, and they really were there for pro-immigration, right? And then there were just thugs, an outright people that were just taking advantage of this. And the people that were organize, and they are for peaceful protest, at some point actually, put their bodies in between the law enforcement officers and these complete lawless crazy batches (ph).

GUTFELD: Yeah. Dana, you talk to Jonathan Hunt? He was there last night. How is he doing? Did he make it home?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I wanted to thank him for sticking it with us last night for the hour that we did a special at midnight. And so, he was there and he it was really helpful to us, because we had somebody on the ground. I think we have some video there. He actually got pelted in the back right there, by a rock. Here's the thing about the protesters, it just seems like they're very young. And I think that their idea of protesting is very romantic to them. I can't imagine ever throwing something at another person, let alone a police officer, or if you -- OK, if humans aren't your thing, like throwing it at a horse? I mean, at some point there's, that will turn on you.


PERINO: Donald Trump then tweeted this morning, something that I think that he could have taken it, taken a different attack. But this is what he said, "The protesters in New Mexico were thugs, were flying the Mexican flag." He's absolutely right on that. They may not to be provocative, and if those protesters want to be -- advance their cause in the future, I would ditch the Mexican flag. But then he said, "the rally inside was big and beautiful, but outside, criminals." Now nobody was arrested. I would agree it was lawless. I think in some ways he reinforced to that community what they think he thinks about them. After they go back, they go back to last June and rapists and murders, and however, Trump meant that. It's not how they heard it. And so if you see it the other people on other networks were saying, well, this was justified based on what he said before. So I think on the tweet, I think he could have actually said, if you want to have a better economic situation for your state, you want jobs? You should come over and join my team.

BOLLING: You know what else, though? Even if it is a racial issue and the Ferguson effect is in play, why not just do it by sheer volume. Put a ton of cops in there. Bring some National Guard in there, state National Guard, whatever, a state guard, and just line them up. Just outnumber them, and just -- it put an end to it. It seemed like they were outmanned, they were outgunned. They were not throwing anything back --

PERINO: They were not prepared.


BOLLING: Well, I'm not sure they weren't prepared. They just told to stand down. Remember at the Ferguson, Baltimore --


BOLLING: Remember the Baltimore cops?

PERINO: Yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: With Freddie Gray?

PERINO: Insulted.

BOLLING: They were getting hits .


BOLLING: . by rocks. And they were told by Mosby .

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Don't do it. Don't engage.

PERINO: But we don't know if that's the case here.

BOLLING: Right. But my point is, if you're not, if you're going to stand down or if you're gonna not arrest people, put an end to it, and just get your sheer volume out there, so at least somebody intimidating to the crowd.

WILLIAMS: Eric, Greg, I have a question, though, about this Ferguson effect, and we know that it's been described by the DOJ by this kind of chilling effect around law enforcement, their ability to police for fear of the camera. But I know in my line of practice, I've seen the camera actually protect law enforcement.

GUTFELD: Of course, yeah.

WILLIAMS: And certainly, I just certainly want our officers to not think that the camera automatically is their enemy, because there have been instances where law officers -- law enforcement officers have been able to be validated by their claims of what happened at the scene because of that very camera.

GUTFELD: I think they're more worried about what happens after the incident takes place and that they will not be portrayed fairly by the media. So there will be camera, there will be cameras there. But it's like you said the woman that got, you know, got hit by the officer while she was, yeah, that ultimately becomes something awful.

PERINO: And then he pushed her.


PERINO: And surprised me, I've seen that all day long.


BOLLING: We just rolled it, a couple of minutes ago.

PERINO: But I thought it would be picked up and be the thing that you saw all day.


BOLLING: Yeah, look --

PERINO: I'm glad it's not.

BOLLING: They should -- right, they should all been push. They get off the side or get away from the business, cut it out, push him into a corner, and or into an area and let them --


BOLLING: Let them raise their pre-made flags there.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Kimberly, I want you to --


GUTFELD: I'm going to throw to you this sound on tape of an MSNBC panel. We love that. They're so adorable when they're talking about stuff. Here they are talking about the violence last night.


JOAN WALSH, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think if you were a Latino immigrant, you would be, frankly, terrified and very angry.

JOY REID, MSNBC "A.M. JOY" HOST: Wherever Donald Trump goes these are the kinds of protests that are going to follow him. He eggs them on. I think that he sees that it's beneficial to him. It helps him be him. It allows him to be the carnival barker and get out there and humiliate people.

JAMIL SMITH, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I see people, a lot of people expressing their humanity in the face of a candidate who has really built his candidacy on denouncing their humanity.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC "HARDBALL:" HOST: How does he whittle out at least a strong minority of support from a group that he has basically cartoonized?


BOLLING: Whittle?

GUTFELD: So Kimberly, he --

BOLLING: Whittle?


BOLLING: Whittle?

GUTFELD: Whittle, I don't know anymore.

GUILFOYLE: Wait. Was that "Saturday Night Live"?

GUTFELD: I'm not sure --

GUILFOYLE: Because that have no basis, in fact, there are reason --

GUTFELD: That was very humanizing experiment last night.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

GUTFELD: Very humanizing.

GUILFOYLE: They don't even say anything about the acts of violence and crimes that were committed, assaults, batteries, I mean, it's just ridiculous. By the way, the only way maybe some of us will get shut down, because they'll care about the horses, like PETA or somebody who come forward and say --


GUILFOYLE: No, now you've done it.


GUILFOYLE: It's one thing to throw rocks at cops, but you know, the horses? Yeah, I mean, I don't understand. They obviously have a very specific agenda that they're willing to overlook crimes that are committed. So they should make a statement and have some integrity and say, listen they have a right to be there to peacefully protest. Obviously, they have some concerns, but to say that he was there egging them on is not true.

BOLLING: You just get ready. We talked about it last night. Get ready. Cleveland and Philly are going to be -- Albuquerque, this big, right?


BOLLING: Not even a contested race. Donald Trump had already -- he was the only person running in the GOP. The democrats had already voted. This was an uncontested night and it was this rowdy, this out of hand. Can you imagine what Cleveland is going to be like? I can't imagine.

WILLIAMS: It's going to be very interesting.

BOLLING: Gear up, Cleveland.

GUTFELD: I just hope where we are, it's very safe and warm, and we have locks on all of our doors.

WILLIAMS: And a blanket?

GUTFELD: And a blanket, yeah. But OK, is that --

GUILFOYLE: We're not sticking out in any way?



GUTFELD: No one knows where we are.

PERINO: KG, we're going to be with you.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

PERINO: You're going to help us out.

GUILFOYLE: We're gonna have a big problem, actually, ask Bolling.


BOLLING: And you're not going to be able to do the thing when you walk across the, you know --

GUILFOYLE: Against of 300 times?


GUTFELD: No, but you --


GUTFELD: I think Kimberly could stop a lot of male protesters in their tracks, it's like --

WILLIAMS: Or we can be very persuasive.

GUTFELD: Yeah, Yeah. I think --

WILLIAMS: The KG effect is what I'm calling that.


WILLIAMS: But as we -- I have --


WILLIAMS: Exactly. This is the issue, though, right, with blaming Trump around it.


WILLIAMS: A lot of people don't like Donald Trump. A lot of people don't like what he has to say from a broad spectrum of types of people. But when you blame Trump for this type of lawless action, you take away personal accountability. You see, because I don't care how much he offends you, how much he makes you upset, how much you feel like your humanity is being challenged. I think you meet that by showing humanity, by demonstrating humanity, not what we saw last night.

GUTFELD: Yeah. And the thing is, no matter how obnoxious a person can be. That doesn't -- I'm not controlling the behavior of other people.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

GUTFELD: That in that's ridiculous. You -- there are plenty of people who would be offended by what I say who aren't throwing rocks at me. I think right now.

WILLIAMS: Not real ones.



GUTFELD: Yes. What do you think, Dana?

PERINO: I'm not exactly sure .

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: . what you were saying.


PERINO: I think that --

GUILFOYLE: Because you're funny.

PERINO: But I do think it's interesting the different perspective, that so my instinct was saying oh, my gosh, that was terrible for the business community, it's bad for Albuquerque, it's bad for the cops that were there. Especially the ones that who did not have riot gear. I guess that would be a good answer to get, right? It's to -- what the police were told, and if they were told to stand down or stand back. And then I think about the other perspective, and the commentary from MSNBC. I just -- I don't dismiss it, because that is what a lot of people believe and I think it's worth listening to, even if I disagree with it. It's worth listening to try to then, OK, figure out a way. How can you actually bring people together out of that?

BOLLING: So the Ferguson -- they wants to go, but the Ferguson effect, is it just going exponentially increase the incidences of this and make them worse? If protesters know cops are told to stand down or not to engage, and not to arrest, I mean there's no risk in protesting, right?

GUTFELD: Has anybody from Albuquerque, from the police department said anything about what happened? I mean --

BOLLING: I've heard it.

GUILFOYLE: Crickets.


GUILFOYLE: And we were waiting since last night, finally, at 1:00 a.m. we're like --

GUTFELD: I didn't sleep --

PERINO: It's like this story that just go away.

GUTFELD: And we're going to go away, but only for a moment -- straight ahead, breaking news from the State Department on Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server. Boy, talking about a bad week. Plus, Trump unloaded on Clinton again at his event today along with a woman he called Pocahontas. Hmm -- next.


BOLLING: Donald Trump says he loves to counterpunch and he's great at it, he took some new swipes at Hillary Clinton after she stepped up her attacks on him.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She is a total lightweight. Believe me. I watch her speaking, she always uses the teleprompter. I watch her speaking, we are going to win north, and south, and east, and west. She screams; it drives me crazy. I didn't say it. She goes, Donald Trump is a terrible person, and he wanted to buy housing when it was at a low point. Who the hell doesn't?



BOLLING: Well, Trump was back on the campaign trail in California today and also fired back at another one of his critics, Senator Elizabeth Warren.


TRUMP: Pocahontas, that's Elizabeth Warren. I call her goofy. She is -- no, no, goofy. She gets less done than anybody in the United States Senate. She gets nothing done. Nothing passed. She's got a big mouth. And that's about it. But they used her because Hillary is trying to be very presidential. She's stopping with the shouting, OK? But then I listen before, and I'll be honest with you, I cannot listen to her. I cannot listen to her, can't listen.


BOLLING: Crooked Hillary, Goofy Elizabeth. Pocahontas.

WILLIAMS: I didn't like the Pocahontas thing, that's just me. But I think he could stick with goofy, as fine. I just think we're in for the pettiest, contested political race we've ever seen. And it's going to be on both sides, because actually I think a lot of this pettiness is something that Hillary would have loved to have engaged in previously, she couldn't do it with Barack Obama, he was a different kind of candidate. But Trump and Clinton -- oh, let the pettiness begin.

BOLLING: KG, Pocahontas, big time on Elizabeth --

GUILFOYLE: Listen. Didn't I say I wanted to be Pocahontas one time .

BOLLING: Elizabeth Warren .

GUILFOYLE: . at the table?

BOLLING: . jesting this, you've one 30 second --

GUTFELD: I think having --



BOLLING: One 30 seconds therapy.


GUTFELD: What? I didn't have the costume.

GUILFOYLE: For me to do it. I think Pocahontas, I get the way he's saying it. But Pocahontas I think it's quite complementary when you think about it.

WILLIAMS: But your hair was giving me Pocahontas right now --

GUILFOYLE: Pocahontas.

WILLIAMS: I love that.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God.


BOLLING: Someone who think, I mean, you may not like the tactic, but nonetheless, it's got people watching.

PERINO: Yeah. I mean, yeah, like I watch it and I'm like, wow, this is somebody who is saying things that have never been said before. Things you would only say in the privacy of your own home, because you had some sort of like conscience. It's like, you know, you don't want to like offend somebody like that. What he's saying about --

GUILFOYLE: It's about commercial breaks.

PERINO: Exactly.


PERINO: The commercial breaks are different for a reason, because there's something called patriotic race where you should respect your opponent. These two do not respect each other. Elizabeth Warren, she is well-liked on the democratic side. She's actually a pretty effective attack dog, people that go to her speeches say that she's actually really engaging, probably a better speaker in front of a large group like that than Hillary Clinton is. And so I think you might see a lot more of her on the trail.


PERINO: But she did in speaking the Pocahontas thing when she fake the -- you know, the American thing so that she could get .

BOLLING: The box, right?

PERINO: . a leg up on other people. Bad move and it -- of course, it should haunt her.

BOLLING: So, yeah. Doesn't she deserve it now?

GUTFELD: Yeah, I mean --

BOLLING: After what she went through the faking the --

GUTFELD: I would be a hypocrite .

BOLLING: America.

GUTFELD: . if I said that Trump calling her Pocahontas is wrong. If you remember about three years ago, I said that her Native American name was fingernails on a chalkboard.

GUILFOYLE: I remember that.



GUTFELD: And mine was -- but you see, I'm an idiot talking head, so I can get away with that sort of thing. But, you can't expect Trump to elevate this course, that's like expecting a frog, you know, to recite Shakespeare.


GUTFELD: This is what he is, and that's why he's liked, it's different. It's refreshing and he is right about the -- when she went after him about the housing bubble. It's one thing to create the mess. It's another thing to profit from it. You know, buy low and sell high, that's business.

WILLIAMS: That's business.

GUTFELD: That's business.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Now that was a long end of it.

PERINO: She should --


GUTFELD: I've been too.

WILLIAMS: I think that's --


GUILFOYLE: Yes. Wants to name more?


GUTFELD: It's getting high (inaudible).

BOLLING: Pocahontas and the government's people, Hillary are always buying high and selling low, (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: And that's no point, Eric. I think totally call Elizabeth Warren out on the Native American thing. I mean, I thought that was a really bad look for her and jeopardized her credibility. I just don't think the name- calling in that way --

GUTFELD: You are in the playground.

WILLIAMS: I think that's my (inaudible).

GUTFELD: We are the playground now.


GUTFELD: That's the thing.

WILLIAMS: That's the thing.

GUTFELD: It's a lot of fun.


BOLLING: Let's look at this one. Trump also ripped Susanna Martinez in her home state last night, blaming the republican governor for New Mexico's economic woes.


TRUMP: Since 2000, the number of people on food stamps in New Mexico has tripled. We have to get your governor to get going. She's got to do a better job, OK?


TRUMP: Your governor has got to do a better job.


TRUMP: She's not doing the job. Hey, maybe I'll run for governor of New Mexico, I'll get this place going.



BOLLING: So what do you think, Dana? Was it the economics or Susanna Martinez says she does not want to be the VP --

PERINO: We're supposed to be in this period of republican unifying as a party, and that really to me that comes from the top. That was Donald Trump, I think, the reciprocity for her not coming out and supporting him. Yesterday she didn't come to the rally. She said she was really busy. She did not endorse him. Here's the thing about his, unity does not also mean conformity. Those two things are different. And he could have taken a pass on that, but it was not necessarily just to take a swipe at her. She's been governor since 2000. She inherited a terrible situation after years of liberal governance that they've been trying to dig out off. New Mexico hardly has any national resources. She's also the chairman of the Republican Governors Association this year.


PERINO: So she had a huge responsibility to -- I would imagine if you want to be the head of the Republican Party, you would want to, at least, give her a little bit of a pass. You've got to understand. They gave Paul Ryan a pass for awhile, while he was figuring things out. I guess we're going to talk tonight. I just think for the first Latina republican governor of the United States, give her a little bit of a break. That was absolutely unnecessary.

BOLLING: Greg, could she have shown up? Or stay?

GUTFELD: Maybe. I, you know, I -- this is giving me an opportunity to plug my article. I do an article today on Trump and the art of reciprocity. It's on (inaudible). This is about reciprocity. She didn't back him, so he hit her. And I think maybe he could have been the better guy.

GUILFOYLE: Right. This is a big opportunity. If I was him, I would want her to show up and be there, even if she didn't endorse to show up. At least take a meeting, do something, and show a little, you know, respect for the presumptive GOP nominee. I mean, if it was Ted Cruz or somebody else, she would have done. So, sometimes in business, but this is politics, so you're supposed to take the higher road in terms of bringing the party together. This would be --

GUTFELD: There is no high road.

GUTFELD: This would be business payback.

BOLLING: With the highest road.

GUTFELD: The highest road, yes.


GUTFELD: It's a contrast.

WILLIAMS: It's a bumpy subway.


WILLIAMS: This was shade me (inaudible). She didn't show up and support him in a public way. He took the opportunity, he has the platform now. For many people, they have this point, he is the face of the GOP, and I think he took that muscle and he flexed it big time, and threw her a bunch of shade.

BOLLING: All right. We have to go now.


BOLLING: Hear Newt Gingrich is on "Hannity" tonight. I hear -- I have a hunch he may be asked this question about Susanna Martinez. And I hear the answer is fairly interesting. You may want to stick around for that one. Up next, stunning developments on Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server, could new -- a new report or new A-report, it's how you read the teleprompter, by the State Department inspector general derail her presidential dreams? Details, when we return.


PERINO: "Get Love" my music choices, right, OK? Hillary Clinton repeatedly defended her use of a private e-mail server as secretary of state.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything I did was permitted. There was no law, there was no regulation. There was nothing that did not give me the full authority to decide how I was going to communicate.


PERINO: But according to a new State Department audit, the secretary did need permission to exclusively use her own server and the agency would not have granted it if she'd asked. The 78-page report from the department inspector general was delivered to members of Congress earlier today. It also accuses Clinton of violating department policy by not handing over her e-mails when she left office. Here was Spokesman Mark Toner, earlier today.


MARK TONER, DEPUTY SPOKESMAN: Full extent of her use of private e-mail was not clear to senior staff. They would not have approved this. Again, I don't, I think Secretary Clinton has said as much that she's looking back would not have done this the same -- the same course of action.


PERINO: To be a tongue-tied spokesperson trying to defend that.

GUTFELD: We need less toner.




BOLLING: We never need toner.



GUTFELD: I know.

PERINO: You always -- it doesn't matter if you just put it in.


PERINO: The printer said it needs more toner. Why don't you comment on this since you start --

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you go make some copy?


GUTFELD: No matter what happens with this, this is going to be the scab that Trump picks at, at the debate and it's going to drive her crazy. It doesn't matter if she's indicted or not, this thing is not going away. The democrats should have a back-up. I mean, no one regrets having a spare tire. They better -- I mean, they must be having something in the works that they're keeping mum about in case this goes really bad.

PERINO: Do you -- Kimberly --


PERINO: Do you think there's any connection or any information that can be (inaudible) from today's IG report that might tell us what the FBI is thinking or doing?

GUILFOYLE: I think the FBI has all of that already. So it shows you that they're on the track; you know, they're proceeding forward. Because if the I.G. has it, then so does the Justice Department and the FBI.

So I think this is very bad news for Hillary Clinton. And no surprise to the Justice Department. They're on top of this.

You know, the FBI is really going to do a thorough job. I trust in Jim Cummings completely to make sure. And this really flies in the face and shows, you know, lying, lying. Better strip it off of Mr. Cruz, poor Mr. Cruz, and apply it to Hillary Clinton. Because she lied when she said she had the authority, and that she did nothing wrong.

PERINO: It just -- it does show, I think, Eboni, a real lack of judgment and a recklessness, with not only the Federal Records Act. But with her entire candidacy as president.

WILLIAMS: A hundred percent, Dana. And you know the worst part about this? This isn't a right-wing conspiracy thing. This isn't a Republican candidate thing. This is the Obama just -- excuse me, State Department saying this, right? So...


PERINO: They're independent.

WILLIAMS: Well, they're independent, but again, it's under the State Department, and certainly, this is not good. Because this is saying for her to say that this was -- no policies were broken, there were no rules in place. Actually, Senator Clinton -- Secretary Clinton, Federal Records Act talked about, you know, the expectations here. And it said at a minimum, she should have turned over all those emails before she left the State Department, and by doing so -- not doing so, she really was not in compliance.

GUILFOYLE: And it's not a specific intent crime.

PERINO: It does add to the suspicion as to all the emails that she deleted, Eric, before she admitted all this.

BOLLING: Thousands and thousands were deleted. And they point that out in the I.G. report.

But the Clinton campaign came back and said, "Yes, but they did it, too."

PERINO: I know.

BOLLING: And that is such an ugly defense of, when you're caught doing something wrong, "Yes, they did it, too" should not be your defense.

PERINO: Plus, that's not true.


BOLLING: Who knows? I don't know if they did it or...

PERINO: I do. Well, I'll be on "The Kelly File." I'll explain it later.

BOLLING: The way it laid out...

GUILFOYLE: Nice tease.

BOLLING: ... she didn't do this; she was supposed to ask for permission on this; they were supposed to get a technology expert in, if she wanted to do this. And he could approve whether or not it was going to be secure or not. She didn't do that. Basically, she was saying she was above the law.

Now, this report shows that -- I'm not sure that she broke a law. She certainly broke protocol.

WILLIAMS: The Federal Records Act.

BOLLING: The FBI will decide whether -- if she broke the law, she'll get indicted.


GUILFOYLE: She should be, theoretically speaking. But couple this at the same time. Is, you know, they have the -- your favorite Guccifer guy. Catherine Herridge was actually there, listening to that -- what was going on there, in terms of his ability to provide testimony and saying how easy it was for international hackers to be able to get into Secretary Clinton's email.

Again another problem. Because that's somebody who wants -- that should be rewarded as commander-in-chief, the most important job in the world? That violated these rules? And that didn't keep America safe, because she basically left it open for anybody to get access to classified and top- secret information. It's unacceptable.

PERINO: I will take a moment, though, to -- since I have 30 seconds, so one of the Clinton campaign will say, "Well, in the report it says that the State Department could have done a better job of making things clear as how it's supposed to work and that previous secretaries had a private email server that they used." That's -- it's not server.

Both Rice and Powell had dot-gov and classified email accounts. Hillary Clinton never did. They also had occasional use for that. Hillary had exclusive use, even after she was told, "This is not good. There could be hackers, et cetera."

Plus, the question about turning over the emails when you leave. She took it upon herself to delete tens of thousands. She even admitted that. It is not the same. Not apples to apples, and there's more where that came from.

WILLIAMS: If you want it.

GUTFELD: Did you just coin that phrase?

PERINO: No, I'm like -- I'm out of gas.

GUTFELD: You are?

PERINO: I have no coins. Money, whatever.

But we do have more show. Because breaking news out of San Francisco. The city is upholding its controversial law protecting illegal immigrants like the man who killed 32-year-old Kate Steinle. Details next when "The Five" returns.


GUILFOYLE: Lawmakers in San Francisco have decided to keep its controversial law protecting illegal immigrants. The board of supervisors unanimously voted yesterday to uphold the sanctuary city policy almost a year after the law came under renewed scrutiny after an illegal immigrant murdered 32-year-old Kate Steinle.

Francisco Sanchez had been deported five times back to Mexico, but had returned to the U.S., and to San Francisco in particular, because he knew the city wouldn't report him to the feds.

This is such a disturbing story. I mean, it just seems like it just happened yesterday. I mean, I worked in those courtrooms; I was an assistant district attorney in San Francisco and how frustrating. You couldn't even get the defense attorney, the defense, to give you their true name and identity. And you would have to print them and go through weeks of stuff to figure out who they were, and you'd see 25 aliases, and it was all because they wanted to avoid any kind of report or detainer to ICE, et cetera.

So it's just very frustrating to end up being a revolving door, Dana. And when you see these types of things, you know, crimes that are committed by people, you know, drunk drivers, innocents murdered. And look what happened with Kate Steinle, just walking with her father.

PERINO: The -- it's a very strange situation to see what's happening. It's not just in San Francisco, where local authorities have said, ignore the feds, or don't work with the feds. San Francisco now has spoken with voting. I mean, on the record, they've decided to do that.

And I don't know whether -- I don't know what would have been more persuasive than Kate Steinle's brother making the case that we should at least have coordination between the city and the federal government.

And I do think the next president, if it's President Trump, there will be a reckoning, when it comes to federal financial support for these cities. If it's Hillary Clinton, I can guarantee you it will stay the same.

GUILFOYLE: That's another reason to, like, consider -- look at, you know, your voting.

It's upsetting to me when you see this. I mean, I was born and raised in this city. I was first lady of San Francisco, and when I see what's happening there. And I know a lot of people that are on the board of supervisors. But it's just -- it's ignoring the facts and the evidence, Eric, of what happens. And it's just -- it's not right. And it contravenes the federal law.

BOLLING: So let me touch on what Dana just said a little bit. So here's the time line. Donald Trump announces he's going to run for president middle of June. In July -- he says, "I'm going to build the wall, because Mexico is sending some of -- some of the illegals that come over, some, are the worst of the worst. Murderers, rapists, et cetera."

He's called a bigot. He's cold; he's horrible. He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He's going to divide the country.

In two weeks or three weeks, Kate Steinle is murdered by an illegal who's been sent back seven or so times, with a rap sheet this long of felonies. And everyone says, "Well, you know, maybe Trump has something there." And he kind of built his campaign on that. So that's how that part of it went down.

My question to you guys, I guess, is so the feds are not allowed to enforce the law, because the city of San Francisco says, "We're going to hold these -- these immigrants. We're not going to let you deport them."

If San Francisco or any other city in the country says, "We're not going to prosecute marijuana crimes," can they do that, too? Can a city be a city - - sanctuary city for other things other than illegals?

WILLIAMS: In Los Angeles, the true answer is yes, he's right. In Los Angeles...

BOLLING: A state can, but can a city?


WILLIAMS: Yes, local ordinances can decide this.

And I have a serious problem with it, though, K.G., because last I checked back in law school, when a local or state ordinance was in conflict with the federal one...


WILLIAMS: ... the Supremacy Clause said that the higher authority rules. So I think this is crap, and this is B.S.

And going back to the Trump thing and kind of where we were earlier, Eric. You're absolutely right. This kind of thing happens, and it kind of goes, "Hmm, maybe there is something to this theory that a lot of these illegal immigrants in this country are the source of crime and horrible things happening to good people."

But this is where these policies actually don't do any favors for, you know, immigrants they're trying to do this thing the right way. And those include Hispanic immigrants that are trying to come here and provide for a better future for themselves. And I don't understand why advocacy groups for those immigrants support this type of sanctuary law that really does nothing but sully the reputation and the general image of Hispanic immigrants.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I hear you.

GUILFOYLE: Greg, you're from the Bay Area, too, so you understand the politics, what's going on.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's my sanctuary city.

The left wants it both ways, when you think about it. They want safe spaces to protect people from hurtful feelings and infractions. But then they want spaces that protect illegality. So it's just -- it's whatever they make up.

So to your point, why can't we all have our own types of sanctuary cities? Places where there's certain laws that I don't like. I should be able to punch a protester in the face and walk away with it in my sanctuary city. So if you come to my sanctuary city, and you're an agitator, we get to punch you in the face. It's against the law, but not in this sanctuary city.

Why can't I smoke in a bar? What about a sanctuary city where you can say whatever you want? It doesn't matter if it's bigoted. It's absolutely free speech beyond belief. Why don't we do that?


BOLLING: Your sanctuary city is your apartment, though.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

PERINO: He doesn't like people.

GUILFOYLE: Outdoor space, OK. Small spaces.

Ahead, Hillary Clinton paid another visit to "Ellen," even though she said she was too busy to do a FOX News debate in order to keep campaigning. That hard-hitting interview when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: As you know, Hillary Clinton will not come on FOX News to debate Bernie Sanders. But she did make time to visit her old pal, Ellen DeGeneres, and even play a game of who would you rather -- have as your V.P., that is. Take a look.


ELLEN DEGENERES, TALK SHOW HOST/COMEDIAN: We're going to play a little game we call "Who Would You Rather?" Mark Cuban or Joe Biden?


DEGENERES: Bernie Sanders...

CLINTON: I really believe in making lemonade out of lemons.

DEGENERES: Have you seen "Lemonade," and do you like it?

CLINTON: I have seen parts of it. And I do like it.

DEGENERES: It's great.


WILLIAMS: She also took more shots at Donald Trump.


DEGENERES: If you win, could you make a bill that would permanently prevent Donald Trump from running in the next election?

CLINTON: I doubt it, but it's worth looking into.


WILLIAMS: Now we have a FOX News alert. We want to go to FOX News correspondent Will Carr. He's in Anaheim, California, with developing protests outside of a Trump event -- Will.

WILL CARR, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey guys -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) situation has gotten quite volatile. Violence has broken out.

Basically, all of these members of law enforcement have been pushing the protesters that we saw at the convention center, about two or three blocks to our south earlier, down this street here. You can see they pushed back.

But the cops will come up. They'll edge up, and then they will grab somebody. In the last five minutes, we've seen seven or eight arrests.

At the same time, the protesters have been throwing huge rocks at the officers, I mean rocks as big as my hand here. They've also been lighting things on fire. They're lighting shirts. They lit a couple of trash cans back there behind us on fire.

What we've been seeing is these front lines are inching up close to the protesters. You've got guys over here, they have their faces covered, they're getting arrested. Guys, we'll continue to keep a close eye out here.

Back to you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Will. K.G. is now going to start us with some Q&A around this protest.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Hey, Will. It's Kimberly. So did they, in fact, come to an extra level of preparation because of the protests that happened in Albuquerque last night? So to have extra police today?

CARR: Can you say that one more time?

GUILFOYLE: Did they provide extra police force protection out there today, in light of what transpired yesterday in Albuquerque, New Mexico?

CARR: The police department told us that they did not change their plan because of what happened in Albuquerque. They said that they've known that this rally was going to go on for the past five days. So what they did is they had that entire week to plan for this.

Just a couple of weeks ago, here in Orange County, we had some other violence at a Trump rally. So they said that they were prepared.

Now the one thing I'll say is that these protesters were two or three blocks down, not moving. But these officers pushed them back on this street. And this street actually had traffic. Just within the past couple of minutes, the protesters got pushed into that traffic. They started kicking cars; they started throwing rocks, trying to break windows on some of the cars.

And then they continued to get pushed back. So right now it's momentarily calm. But within the last ten or 15 minutes, it definitely, as I mentioned, has been volatile, guys.

BOLLING: Will, I'm going to make a quick observation, Anaheim one, Albuquerque nothing. This is a clearly better way to handle these protesters: arrest them, push them back and do it with volume and do it with a lot of gear.

You notice some people had facial masks on. They want to hide their identity, cowards. And the final thought: you said that these people -- the cops knew about this for five days. Do you see any premade signs? Do you see -- is there any indication on who started it, who organized this protest?

CARR: Well, there was probably about 50 to 75 protesters to start with. I'd say there was roughly a dozen who had their faces covered, which has become quite typical with these rallies. And those are the ones who kept going up to these lines, really trying to incite the officers to do something. And those are the ones, one by one, as I've mentioned, roughly between seven and ten, have been arrested in the last five minutes, guys.

PERINO: Will, it's Dana Perino. I'm just curious, at what time did this rally start? And will it be light out when it finishes?

CARR: Well, so this started -- the protesters started when the Trump rally started, which was at noon local here. They started showing up a little bit earlier. They got stronger. They really didn't have any Trump supporters to yell at. So there were some street preachers. They got into a verbal sparring session. Then the street preachers left, and then they turned their anger towards law enforcement out here.

And that's how we got to this situation that we're in now. Law enforcement started pushing them back. They started saying on loudspeakers on the helicopters above us that this was an unlawful protest, and anybody who remained here in this street, I mean, this is a public street, as I mentioned. Cars and traffic were going along here just a matter of minutes ago. They continue to say anybody in these streets are going to be arrested, and so far we have seen some evidence of that, Dana.


GUTFELD: Well, I'm always curious: where do these rocks come from? Like, they're on are -- they're in basically a -- on a highway. Are they -- do they bring them with them? Do they pick them up?

CARR: Along the sides of the streets here, there's some pretty big rocks that they've been picking up. And like I said, I mean, some were the size of grapefruits. That -- one guy threw some, and that led to his arrest. But it came right in front of the horses here. And a rock that big, if it hits anybody, especially in the head, that is quite -- potentially quite dangerous, Greg.

BOLLING: Bolling again. The protest last night, clearly, there were people with Mexican flags. They were protesting the immigration policy of Donald Trump. Is there a concise topic? Is it also immigration?


BOLLING: message at the heart of their protests? Or is this just people showing up and creating havoc?

CARR: No, I would say immigration definitely has some people fired up. For the most part we saw a bunch of lookie-loos coming in. The guys with the masks, and you can see, again, they are pushing us north on the street here. The guys with the masks didn't really seem to come for any specific reason, no issue on policy that's upset them. They really seemed to come more because they wanted to stir things up with law enforcement. And some now are, at least, going to spend a little bit of time behind bars.

WILLIAMS: To that question, Will, do we have any idea around how many arrests have been made? Are we talking a handful, or have you seen any types of, you know, significant quantity?

CARR: I can only tell you guys what we've seen. I'm going to say -- here you go. They're getting a guy right here. They're chasing -- this is what they've been doing. They race out from the line, and then they go and get one.

Seems they stop here for a second. They're wrapping behind the line. What they do is this number of officers here, they pick out single individuals. They race up from behind the line, try to grab them and take them back. Like I said, it was perfect for your question. You see probably seven, eight times where they actually got people. These officers right there. Not able to arrest anybody, but they're absolutely singling out the protesters out here, trying to get them off the streets.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Will.

GUILFOYLE: Will, so what's interesting is, they really seem like they are well prepared. But to me it's like no surprise because the Anaheim P.D., having worked as a prosecutor in Los Angeles, they're an outstanding police department. I think this is an example of how it can and should be done, as Eric pointed out moments ago.

Are we seeing any of the command brass out there from the police department? Anybody of senior authority that appears to be calling the shots and coordinating these efforts?

CARR: Not that I can visually see, but they do have a helicopter in the air. They're monitoring this from both the ground and the air and, to be frank with you, I don't know if you guys have one of those helicopter shots. But I can't see what's going on behind this line. But I would roughly estimate that they have between 200 and 300 officers out here.

So they have quite a mix of officers not only on the ground. You can see here, it looks like they may be, again, looking for the next protester they want to take out. But also, they have dozens and dozens of mounted officers here, trying to take care of the situation.

GUILFOYLE: A big show of force to have that many out, which is good, which you need.

PERINO: Huge amount of resources, too.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.

BOLLING: Hey, Will, I don't know if we're even supposed to be doing this, but is there a chance to talk to one of these protesters and ask them what's -- what their grievance is?

CARR: I can ask them.

GUILFOYLE: He's like, pass. He was watching last night with Jonathan Hunt.

CARR: We're pushing back, we're pushing back.

PERINO: Where are they -- where do you think they -- where are they trying to get people to go? Like when -- how far do they want them to get away?

CARR: That -- that's a good question, because we're not sure. They just keep pushing them back into moving traffic.


CARR: You can see there's a car just right here. And that's part of the plan that, you know -- I'm not going to second-guess law enforcement. They have obviously had a plan, and had a plan in place for days here. But it seems that this has just continued to push into ongoing traffic.

And like I mentioned, right before we came out on live, the protesters then started trying to attack some of the cars that were in traffic out here. So the officers swept up, got some of those protesters. But I'm not exactly sure that that went according to plan as to what they were going to do when violence broke out here.

GUTFELD: Hey, Will, it's Greg. I have a question about -- can you figure out the ratio of people who are there just holding cameras and watching and actual protesters? I mean, could it be that there's, like, 30 protesters, and everybody else is just there for a show?

CARR: Yes, Greg, that's a good question. So earlier today, there was a section of time where there was probably one Trump supporter, one Trump protester screaming at each other. And I have to say, I posted a picture on my Twitter account. There's 30-plus members of the media surrounding that. It really kind of stood out to me.

But through the course of the day, the number of protesters have grown. The number of media has stayed the same. And then you just have those handful of guys, those handful of deviants who just want to push all the way up to the officers. And it's really -- you get the sense that they really came here wanting to get arrested or at least to stir up some kind of violent situation before they try to go home at some point, Greg.

GUILFOYLE: So Will, do we see kind of the level of violence and escalation that we observed last night in Albuquerque, New Mexico? Because they were throwing things that were lit on fire at the police horses; they were hurling rocks at the cops, even ones that didn't have the protection on. They even threw a rock at Jonathan Hunt when he was trying to report for us last night.

CARR: It's definitely been a little more sporadic than what we saw in Albuquerque. But in various moments there have been parts of violence. I mentioned the rocks that they've thrown. I've seen a number of items that they've lit on fire. And like I said, they were kicking cars, trying to break the windshield and the side windows in some of the cars that we saw. So not -- not as much and congruent as what we saw last night in New Mexico. But certainly, there has been that kind of criminal element there.

WILLIAMS: Will, Eboni again, are you able to hear any of the protesters in terms of chant or things they're saying? I understand they don't have a real clear concise political message. But anything that you're able to hear on the ground that they're actually saying or chanting?

CARR: Yes. Eboni, I'll tell you, some of the things I certainly can't say on cable news and keep my job. But most are anti-Trump sentiments, very vitriolic. So are the signs and the chants that we've heard. A lot of cuss words and just a lot of anger from the people that we've encountered - - Eboni.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Will Carr, thank you for that update, live from Anaheim, California, where people are pushing back the anti-Trump protesters.

Stay tuned to FOX News for all the breaking new developments with the anti- Trump protests escalating in California at this hour. "Special Report" is next.

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