Data indicates smoke inside EgyptAir plane before crash

Reaction on 'Hannity' as authorities recover debris and information


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," May 20, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, GUEST HOST:  We begin tonight with a "Fox News Alert."  Officials are still trying to determine what caused Egyptair flight 804 to crash into the Mediterranean Sea early Thursday morning.

Welcome to "Hannity."  I'm Tucker Carlson, sitting in tonight for Sean.

Search crews today located plane seats, luggage, and sadly, human remains from that downed jetliner.  We're also learning tonight that according to the Aviation Herald, there may have been a fire on board the aircraft.  Smoke alarms went off just before it fell from the sky.

Joining us now with the very latest from our London Bureau is Kitty Logan -- Kitty.

KITTY LOGAN, FOX CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, The Aviation Herald Web site has published a data which is said was transmitted from the plane by satellite during the final minutes of the flight.  Now, this data indicates a smoke alert in the toilet and in the avionics compartment.

And an aviation specialist has told Fox News this could mean there was a fire on board which could have caused the plane's controls to completely fail.  Now, until the aircraft is recovered, investigators won't be able to learn exactly what happened.

Several countries, including France, have joined in the search and rescue operation, and today, the first items of wreckage were discovered.  The Egyptian navy says its ships recovered personal items, as well as parts from the plane, such as seats.  They found human remains, too, a sad confirmation that none of the 66 passengers and crew is likely to have survived the crash.

The debris was discovered around 180 miles north of Egypt's coast, not far from where the last signal from the flight was picked up.

Now, the next step is to locate the main body of the aircraft, something this U.S. Navy plane is assisting with, and as always, it will be crucial to recover the black boxes.  So far, these have not been located, and any data which can be recovered from them obviously will be vital to the investigation, but search efforts in these deep waters is going to take some time.

And if this new data indicating a fire on board proves to be accurate, it will be a big leap forward in that investigation.  But then the next question, if it was a fire which caused the crash, then what caused the fire -- Tucker.

CARLSON:  Great question.  Thanks a lot, Kitty.

Joining us now with reaction, former commercial pilot and aerospace journalist Kathleen Bangs, aviation expert Sal Lagonia and former National Security Council staffer Gillian Turner.  Thanks so much for joining us.

Kathleen, I want to go to you first, as a former commercial pilot.  One of the reasons many of us assumed this was a bomb is because the aircraft dropped relatively quickly from altitude into the sea.  Could a fire have caused the mishap to unfold as quickly as that?

KATHLEEN BANGS, FMR. COMMERCIAL PILOT & AEROSPACE JOURNALIST:  Yes, Tucker.  In fact, I've been very suspicious from the beginning about this perhaps not being a bomb, and I'm glad to see we're looking at other factors.

This ACARS report -- what it is is there's a digital recording system that comes from the airplane, separate from anything that the pilots enter, and it goes via satellite uplink back to the company.  And what that's showing is that we had a cascade of problems that happened on that airplane over a two to three-minute period.

So if this was a bomb, highly unlikely that these events would happen over two to three-minute period.  It's not impossible for a very, very small bomb, but it does not appear that there's any breach of the fuselage, that there was a depressurization.  So what it looks like is perhaps a fire near the cockpit, perhaps under the cockpit in what's called the avionics bay or the ENE compartment that spread rapidly into the cockpit and the forward lavatory.

CARLSON:  Boy, so fast though, Sal, no distress call at all from this aircraft.  There's a lot of smoke in cockpits and planes land safely.  Why could this have unfolded (INAUDIBLE)

SAL LAGONIA, AVIATION EXPERT AND LAWYER:  And that's what's still bothering me about this.  This happened very, very quickly.  Whatever this was, it was very, very quickly.  All we know from the ACARS report so far is that there was a lot of heat on the co-pilot's side and there was some smoke in the so-pilot -- in the cockpit and in the cabin.

CARLSON:  So the ACARS report, there was heat.

LAGONIA:  Right.  It can tell the heat against the window of the co-pilot, and that's exactly what it told us.  Doesn't tell us how it gets there. And of course, we still need to know that.

But I -- you know, I'm still a bit suspicious about anything natural happening on this aircraft.  You had something that was very quick, that was so fast that the pilots apparently weren't able to don their supplemental oxygen and make a mayday call, which is number four on their checklist.  The fourth item on the checklist is mayday, mayday.  They didn't do that.

CARLSON:  Right.  Interesting.  So Gillian, the two are not mutually exclusive.  A fire could mean terrorism, still could have been an incendiary device.  Is that possible, do you think?

GILLIAN TURNER, FOX CONTRIBUTOR:  I think it is possible, and now tonight, really, the race is on from a counterterrorism perspective.  There's a tremendous amount of urgency because any clues that can be gleaned here can be used to help thwart and prevent future terrorist attacks, if it's determined that it is an attack now.

What's going to happen is that law enforcement, intelligence community officials from many different countries are going to converge around this area and start rifling through this.  Immediate questions that need to be asked are, what organization perpetrated this, what individuals, and are those people still operational?  That's where the time crunch really comes in here.

CARLSON:  Right.  So Kathleen, I don't think there's anything scarier than the idea of a fire on board an aircraft at 37,000 feet.  The airline says there's no...

BANGS:  Nothing.

CARLSON:  ... known hazardous cargo in the hold of this plane.  Would they know that?

BANGS:  Yes.  Tucker, that means nothing.  You know, what was also suspicious to me is as soon as this happened two nights ago, within minutes, Egyptair announced there was no hazardous cargo on board that airplane.  Airlines frequently do not even know what the cargo is that they're carrying.  Just look at what passengers bring on board.

So we don't know what could have been on board if it was in a front cargo hold, but beyond it being cargo, very easily, it could have been a scenario that something overheated in that ENE compartment.  It does not necessarily mean it was an incendiary device or a bomb.

But you're right.  It's a pilot's worst nightmare.  Personally, I'd rather chance a midair collision than I would an uncontained fire up at full altitude...

CARLSON:  Oh, for sure.

BANGS:  ... because those pilots can be overcome by toxic fumes within, you know, a minute or two.  Valujet 1997 in the U.S....

CARLSON:  That's right.

BANGS:  From the time they first reported smoke to the time the pilots were unconscious was less than three minutes.

CARLSON:  Wound up in the Everglades, of course, short of Miami airport.

BANGS:  That's right.

CARLSON:  But there are fire suppression systems in these aircraft, no, Sal?

LAGONIA:  There are.  And you can decompress some of these -- some of these cargo holds, if it's in the cargo hold.  You can take the oxygen out of those cargo holds.  So you do have time, usually, if it's a natural fire.  And when I say natural fire, I mean something that was caused by the aircraft itself.

CARLSON:  Right.

LAGONIA:  If that was in the ENE compartment, the fire normally will not spread very quickly.  It would be -- you know, there is fumes coming out of it and it's going to be a problem.  But when the pilot reacts to that, they don -- immediately, they don supplemental oxygen and they start through a checklist of items to try to isolate the fire.

Remember, now, we also have moments later, this airplane going out of control.  That means it cut through those communications systems and the control systems very, very fast.

CARLSON:  Physically cut through them.  Something burned through them, is what you're saying.

LAGONIA:  Something bad happened.

CARLSON:  So I mean, you know, you hate to speculate -- we're not going to speculate -- but if this were a terror attack using an incendiary device, is there any precedent for that?  Have we ever seen that before?

TURNER:  That's a great question.  I'd have to go back and kind of look...


TURNER:  Nothing is jumping out at me, no, but I'd have to double check on that.

CARLSON:  So what are the implications for us?  I mean...

TURNER:  The big picture here is that aviation security is now a global security issue, right?


TURNER:  You saw with this flight, it started on one continent, ended up on a different one.  We've got passenger manifests that have people from 10 different countries.  One country's vulnerabilities today are one weak link for the entire world.  We're all going to share those consequences.

So it's really important to start thinking about this as a global issue, rather than a Middle East issue or an Africa issue or any one region's problem.  Everybody's problems here are shared.

CARLSON:  So Kathleen, obviously, air travel is key to global commerce, and nobody wants to shut that down or slow it.  That would be a disaster in itself.

BANGS:  Right.

CARLSON:  But the idea that pilots and airlines don't know what's on their own airplanes is really troubling and weird.  I'd never heard it until you just said it.  Should that change?

BANGS:  Well, of course, and one of the things that, you know, a lot of aviation organizations have been trying to change is the fact that there's huge pallets sometimes of nicad batteries, and you know, cell phone batteries and those sort of things that are shipped around the world.  And you know, pilots don't even know what's going into their own cargo hold sometimes.

And so one of the most dangerous things is just the cell phone batteries that you see, laptop batteries.  Those things can start a cascade fire when one overheats.  I mean, there was a flight just last month to Hawaii where a woman's iPhone started on fire on board an airplane.  Imagine if that was in the cargo hold.  You could have a...

CARLSON:  You really -- you really can't imagine that.  I mean, Sal, you...

LAGONIA:  You can, though.


LAGONIA:  You can imagine it as developing very slowly, slowly enough for the procedures on board the aircraft to take care of it.

CARLSON:  Right.

LAGONIA:   I'm thinking something very quick happened here and something very bad happened in this airplane.  I don't think it was something that slow type of a mistake or of an accident within an electronic device on the airplane.

CARLSON:  Quickly, Gillian, do you than think we're going to have to wait until the black boxes are analyzed to find out...

TURNER:  I think so.

CARLSON:  You do?

TURNER:  There's no other short circuit here, shortcut here.  I think we're going to have to see what comes out of that.

CARLSON:  This plane is in very deep water, so it could be a while.

TURNER:  It could be in one of those -- we were talking about earlier...


TURNER:  ... one of the caverns beneath the floor of...

CARLSON:  Oh, yes, like 17,000 feet...


CARLSON:  Problematic.  Thanks a lot for joining us.  We appreciate it.  Thank you, Kathleen.

Coming up next right here on the "Hannity" program...


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:   I mean, she is so ill equipped to be the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?



CARLSON:  Just hours after that Egyptair flight went down, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton began weighing in on it, then trading jabs about who would be the better commander-in-chief.  Mercedes Schlapp and Juan Williams here next with their reactions.

And then later...


TRUMP:  The only way to save our 2nd amendment is to vote for a person that you all know named Donald Trump.


CARLSON:  Donald Trump endorsed by the NRA earlier today.  We'll play the highlights of his speech.

All that and more as the "Hannity" show continues.  Stay tuned.



CLINTON:  He says a lot of things that are provocative, that actually make the important task of building this coalition, bringing everybody to the table and defeating terrorism more difficult.

TRUMP:  Is that the dumbest thing you've ever heard?  I mean, to me, it's one of the dumber statements I've ever heard.  I mean, she is so ill equipped to be the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Why is it -- why is it dumb?

TRUMP:  It's -- I just think it's absolutely dumb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?

CLINTON:  No, I do not.

TRUMP:  She came up and she said that Donald Trump talked about radical Islamic terrorism, which she doesn't want to use -- she used a different term because she doesn't want to use that term.


CARLSON:  Well, following the crash of Egyptair flight 804, within, in fact, hours of it, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump weighed in and then began sparring over who would make a better president.  Trump went on Twitter last night saying this, quote, "Look where the world is today, a total mess.  And ISIS is still running around wild.  I can fix it fast.  Hillary has no chance."

He then tweeted this, quote, "Crooked Hillary Clinton looks presidential?  I don't think so.  Four more years of Obama, and country will never come back.  ISIS laughs."

Joining us now with reaction, Fox News contributor Mercedes Schlapp, as well as the author of the brand-new book, "We the People: The Modern-Day Figures Who Have Reshaped and Affirmed the Founding Fathers' Vision of America," and co-host of "The Five" Juan Williams.  It's great to see you both.

Juan, first to you.  So Hillary Clinton has said, in essence, Donald Trump is a shoot-from-the-hip kind of guy, he doesn't know anything, and he's not suited to be president, in fact, not qualified to be president.

But she was secretary of state during a period when the region from which ISIS grew became much less stable and more chaotic in large part due to the policy she espoused.  She should have to take responsibility for that, no?

JUAN WILLIAMS, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST:  Of course she does.  I mean, that's what the debate should be about, Tucker.  I'm glad you put it that way.  I' would embrace that kind of strong, serious debate.

I will point out that, obviously, you had the Arab spring during that time.  You had lots of issues, including Syria, and we all have discussed what happened in Libya and Benghazi.  But then you go back before that and you know that ISIS, and obviously, al Qaeda have deep roots in terms of what happened, in terms of the Iraq war.

But the point that you make is, let's have a substantive debate.  I think what you're seeing from Trump right now is, Hey, I just want to demean Hillary Clinton and shoot off my mouth and get on social media.  And I don't think -- that calls into question whether or not he has the temperament to be the president.

CARLSON:  So Mercedes, I agree substantively with the Trump critique of the Hillary years.  They bore bitter fruit.  I mean, it didn't work.  The world became more dangerous under her time as secretary of state and Obama generally.

On the other hand, without knowing what happened to this plane, Trump said it was blown out of the sky.  He doesn't know that.  Nobody knows that.  He may well be right.  That was my first instinct, but we don't know it. Should he have said it?

MERCEDES SCHLAPP, FOX CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, if I were Donald Trump, I would not have said it.  I think that Donald Trump sometimes just goes with his gut, and it's his first reaction and that's what he tweets out.  And you know, chances are, he's probably right.

But when it comes to foreign policy issues, especially when you're dealing with terrorists acts, there is a moment when you need to pause as a leader and say, Wait a second here, we got to see what the evidence is, we got to see what's happening.

And I -- so I do think he jumped the gun on it.  He's probably right.  Again, I think he really feels that his gut is usually in the right area. But I think it would have been wiser for him to hold back, wait to see what the investigation shows.

And again, I -- but when you look at the case of Hillary Clinton, she's the one that's also, Tucker, being demeaning towards Donald Trump, saying he's not qualified to be president.  Well, goodness gracious, if we look at her background alone as secretary of state, there was so many factors where that -- that -- behind the mishandling of the Arab spring, behind the issue of Libya...

CARLSON:  Right.

SCHLAPP:  ... where there were so many repercussions and the failures that happened there which have allowed ISIS to come and grow in that area.  So I think that we have to take a look at the fact that when Trump is going after Hillary Clinton, he's got it right in the sense that do we really want to trust her with...

CARLSON:  Right.

SCHLAPP:  ... making sure that America's in a stronger position?  I don't think it is after Obama has been president for so long.

CARLSON:  I don't think anyone could argue otherwise.  One, you say that you want a substantive debate, and I believe that's true.  Hillary says she wants a substantive debate, and yet she dismisses Trump with the back of her hand and says he's just not qualified, rather than engaging with what he actually says.  Oh, he's a racist for trying to put a temporary ban on Muslim immigration, never even addressing the disaster that is modern Europe as a result of their immigration policies!

She's not digging in and debating these issues, either.  She's being every bit as shallow as she accuses Trump of being, isn't she?

WILLIAMS:  Wait a second.  Wait a second.  Wait a second.  Hold on a second.  You talked about the ban on Muslim immigrants that he was proposing, and even he walked it back a little bit and said, Well, it might just be temporary because there was such a negative response.  And the negative response wasn't just from Hillary Clinton, it came from other Republicans...


CARLSON:  OK, I don't want to get sidetracked to this.  But look at the polling.  When we get off the air, Google the polling on that question.  In Wisconsin...


CARLSON:  ... 65 percent of people support it!  So actually, The New Yorker editorial writers don't like it, but people do actually think that that might not be crazy.  Sorry.

WILLIAMS:  Well, I'm just -- what I'm saying to you, Tucker, is if you want to have -- and you were saying this.  If you want to have a debate about what's going on in the Middle East, let's have that debate.  But you can't then say, Oh, all of a sudden, this is all going to be solved by a ban on Muslims coming into the United States.  That's not going to solve...


WILLIAMS:  ... we can have it.  We can say it's an impulsive emotional response.

CARLSON:  But that's not...


CARLSON:  Oh, look at this vulgar creep.  You know, he's a racist.  Really?  Tell me what your immigration policy is.  How are we going to prevent America from becoming, say, Sweden or Germany?

WILLIAMS:  Well, I don't think you prevent it...

CARLSON:  What's your plan?

WILLIAMS:  I don't think you prevent it by alienating our Middle Eastern allies and telling the whole Muslim...


WILLIAMS:  ... world that we're their opponents.

CARLSON:  How do you prevent it?  How do you prevent it?

WILLIAMS:  That doesn't make sense.

CARLSON:  OK.  That's fine.  But how do you prevent it?

WILLIAMS:  Well, I think you prevent it by, in fact, engaging in an aggressive and strong war against Islamic terror in the world.

CARLSON:  Mercedes, Mr. Trump has said that he will beat ISIS quickly.  How's he going to do that?

SCHLAPP:  You know, this is a very complicated situation with not a simple solution.  And I think, for Trump, he's made some interesting comments which is, he doesn't want to be dealing with a regime change in Syria while at the same time fighting ISIS.  It seems in his mind that he's going to focus on ISIS, take military action there, and figure out a way to destroy it.

He's talked about taking out some oil fields where we know that a lot of the primary income that goes into the hands of ISIS come from those oil fields, for the oil field production.  So I think that for Donald Trump, as it is for any of these -- for any of the presidents, is that it's a very difficult task.

CARLSON:  Right.

SCHLAPP:  And this is not just a short-term war, Tucker.  We're dealing with a long-term bloody war that is not going to take just, like, several years to just take down.  And that's the reality that we're living in.

WILLIAMS:  Mercedes...

CARLSON:  Unfortunately...

WILLIAMS:  Mercedes -- we're at disadvantage here, Tucker, because Trump doesn't spell out what he's going to do.


WILLIAMS:  He doesn't...


SCHLAPP:  That's not true.  Sorry, Juan.

CARLSON:  He's not Mr. Detail on this question, but he says, you know, We are better than they are, they are wrong, we are right.  That seems like a good start.

WILLIAMS:  That's fine, but what's his policy?  What's his -- what's his resolution?

SCHLAPP:  America first!

CARLSON:  Unfortunately, we'll have to wait for another show to get into that because we're out of time in this segment.  But I want to thank you both for coming on.


CARLSON:  Coming up -- Donald Trump continues to unleash blistering attacks on the Clintons.  Today, he's questioning if Hillary wants Bill to be in the White House with her so she can keep an eye on him.  Leslie Marshall and Tammy Bruce here to react on that.

If that wasn't enough, wait for this.


TRUMP:  The only way to save our 2nd amendment is to vote for a person that you all know named Donald Trump.


CARLSON:  Trump was endorsed by the NRA today.  He vowed to protect your 2nd amendment rights if elected president, and he seemed to mean it.  Bo Dietl, Brian Benjamin (ph) here to debate that.

Much more straight ahead on the "Hannity" program.


CARLSON:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  Donald Trump is not letting up in his critiques of the Clintons, Bill and Hillary.  Earlier today, he offered one reason why Hillary is saying she wants to have her husband run the economy if she makes it to the White House.  Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Don't you think she's saying, I'm going to put him in charge of that, because people like him more than they like her?

TRUMP:  Well, maybe she's saying that, or maybe she just wants him around the White House so she can keep her eye on him.


CARLSON:  Well, as for Hillary Clinton, here's how she's responding to Trump bringing up her husband's history of marital misconduct.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Do you ever feel compelled to defend your honor, the honor of your husband...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  ... with statements that he's making that go to the core of the relationship?

CLINTON:  No.  Not at all.  I know that that's exactly what he is fishing for, and you know, I'm not going to be responding.


CARLSON:  Here with reaction, FOX News contributors Leslie Marshall and Tammy Bruce.

Leslie, first to you.  What a setup question that was from CNN.  No one is asking whether Hillary should defend her husband.  The question is, did she attack the women who accused her husband of crimes?  And she did.  And so why is that defensible?  Why should a woman who bills herself as a defender of all women get away with attacking specific women when they credibly allege crimes committed by her husband?  Why is she a friend of women?

LESLIE MARSHALL, FOX CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, first of all, I don't feel voters in this country that are female. regardless of their ideology, are looking at what Hillary said or didn't say with regard to women that made accusations about her husband.

I'm married.  If somebody made an accusation about my husband, because I love him, at first I certainly wouldn't believe it, and I might not say something very positive about that individual.  The voters are looking at legislation...


CARLSON:  if it went to court and a lot of witnesses came forward and it was basically established, like the O.J. trial, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your husband abused a woman, why would you continue to attack that woman if you claim to be a feminist who is protecting all women?  Like, you don't see the irony there?  Or no?

MARSHALL:  Well, first of all, it's 2016.  Bill Clinton is not running.  These are not the actions of Hillary Clinton.  She and nobody in the Clinton campaign are calling Donald Trump's first wife or second enablers.  I feel that this is not presidential.  It is not professional.  And It's honestly not what the voters want.  And I think that she's right...

CARLSON:  Well, we'll see what the voters want.

MARSHALL:  ... this is exactly what Donald Trump wants.


MARSHALL:  Donald Trump wants her to address this.

CARLSON:  I don't want to talk about other people's marriages.  They're mysterious to me.  You never know what's going on in someone else's marriage, of course.  I don't think most Americans -- I agree with Leslie -- really want to talk about it.  But Hillary Clinton started it by calling the guy a sexist!  And it seems to me if you attack women your husband abused, the one thing you can't call other people is sexist, no?

TAMMY BRUCE, FOX CONTRIBUTOR:  Yes, look, the -- but at -- right now in this age, people run as teams, right?  It's no longer the first lady who's going to be sitting back.  So when we think about marriages in the case of the American presidency, it matters because as a team, they make a determination about the future.


BRUCE:  So character matters.  And the nature of that woman and that man and how they work together matters.  So while we might want to not talk about each other's marriage, when they put themselves into the arena, then all's fair game.

Now, look, she says she's not going to defend her honor because she has none and neither does her husband.  So it's an understandable reason why she's not going to say she's going to defend it.


BRUCE:  But at the same time, here's the other brilliant thing Trump has done.  We're having this conversation, aren't we, that he's done it with humor and with ridicule.  People say this is going to be the ugliest campaign ever in the history of America.  Maybe it's going to be the funniest.  Maybe we're going to have an exciting campaign, where suddenly, we're going to see Hillary, who I almost feel sorry for, but not quite, is going to face an approach that she's never seen before...

CARLSON:  Well, that is...


CARLSON:  I've thought it's been hilarious from the beginning.  and one of the funniest things, Leslie, is to watch a woman, a self-proclaimed feminist who's blazing a trail for women worldwide, run on her husband's economic record.  What is that?

MARSHALL:  Well, I don't think she's running on her...

CARLSON:  Yes, she is!

MARSHALL:  ... husband's economic recent.

CARLSON:  She's saying, I'm running on my husband's economic record.

MARSHALL:  First of all, I -- I think that she -- I think in a sense, she was being a bit tongue in cheek.  I want to point out the sexism, though, if we can.  Donald Trump just saying that she wants her husband in the White House to keep an eye on him...


MARSHALL:  ... to me, is a sexist statement.

CARLSON:  Why is that sexist?

MARSHALL:  And with regard to honor...


CARLSON:  Whoa, whoa, hold!  I'm going to have to ask you to define the term if you're going to use it.  How specifically is that sexist?  Why is that an attack on all women by saying that?

MARSHALL:  Well, you know...

CARLSON:  Oh, it's not.  Oh, OK.


MARSHALL:  I did not say that.  I did not say that.  As a woman, when you are attacking an individual's gender or their husband, or their marriage -- look, I want attacks on the issues both from Trump to Clinton...

BRUCE:  Of course she does because we're dealing with the Clintons.

MARSHALL:  ... and Clinton to Trump because that's what the American people want...


MARSHALL:  ... and that's what the American people will vote on in November.


CARLSON:  We'll find out.  Is it sexist, though, to critique someone's behavior?  Is an attack on Hillary an attack on all women?

BRUCE:  No.  And this is where we've got to be able to decide.  If you are going to be a woman in power and when you're dealing with saying that you can do whatever a man does, which I truly believe, that women are capable of everything, then you don't fall back on whining about the fact that -- of your gender or that something might be sexist.

The fact of the matter is, she has created this buffet for people of her life and of her own behavior.  But for me, when she says that she's going to put Bill in charge of the economy, it means that she's bad at math.  I mean, it's effectively what she's saying.  It means that she's going to give the heavy lifting to a man.  That's the sexism.  That is immediately with the role that she's got, that she's going to say to women across the board, Well, there's things I can't do.  And I'm going to have to have a man...

CARLSON:  And doesn't she undercut...


CARLSON:  ... by claiming sexism?  I mean, the best thing about Hillary, she's pretty tough.  And she is actually pretty tough.

BRUCE:  Well...

CARLSON:  But then when she claims sexism, she's saying I'm weak and the victim.

BRUCE:  But look, we don't really know.  She's never really -- she's had a lot of jobs, but she's never really accomplished anything.  She's had -- she's never really run a campaign that won something.  The Rick Lazio campaign for Senate was really nothing.  The 2008 campaign, clearly she lost.

This is a woman who's been everywhere and nowhere.  She's the ultimate example -- she's almost a Kardashian.  There's no real anything there, but she's famous, anyway.  I mean, this is why the campaign's important because it is going to be about the issues, and that's where Trump will win.

CARLSON:  So Leslie, if you can just boil down -- and we don't have much time, but very quickly boil down her record to one signature achievement that she should be running on.  Here's the thing I did that ought to cause you to vote for me for president.  What would it be?

MARSHALL:  I honestly think she's done a lot for women and children throughout her entire career as an attorney, as a first lady...

CARLSON:  Sure, but...


MARSHALL:  ... as a secretary of state.  You said one thing.  But I don't think that should be the platform.

CARLSON:  No, I'm just asking.

MARSHALL:  I don't think she's giving the heavy lifting to her husband.  I think what she's doing is capitalizing on his popularity, which is more than -- more popular than her and more popular than Donald Trump.  And economically, he's very popular even with Republicans.

CARLSON:  He used to be.  

MARSHALL:  If he were to run in November, he'd win.  

CARLSON:  Republicans like Bill Clinton more than Democrats do these days.  They're socialists.  They're booing him on stage.


CARLSON:  Thanks for joining us.  Thank you.  

MARSHALL:  My pleasure.  Thanks for having me.  

CARLSON:  Coming up next right here on "Hannity" --


TRUMP:  Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment.  Just remember that.  We're not talking about changing.  She wants to abolish the Second Amendment.  So we're not going to let that that.  


CARLSON:  Mr. Donald J. Trump slamming Hillary Clinton during his speech in front of the National Rifle Association today.  Bo Dietl and Brian Benjamin here next with their reactions to it.  

And then later --


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR:  So you get into the general election if you're the nominee for your party.  

CLINTON:  I will be the nominee for my party, Chris.  That's already done in effect.  There is no way I won't be.  


CARLSON:  Yes, there no way.  There's no way I won't be, says Hillary.  She says it's over.  Now, the Sanders campaign is responding to that.  They say, oh, no, it's not over.  We'll bring you the very latest on a very fractious Democratic primary, next.  


CARLSON:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  It's official.  Donald Trump just picked up a big endorsement today from the NRA, the National Rifle Association.  Trump accepted it at the NRA convention where he gave a rousing speech on behalf of the Second Amendment, touting his pro-gun credentials and slamming his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton.  Here's part of what he said.  


TRUMP:  To get the endorsement, believe me, is a fantastic honor.  I will not let you down.  Remember that.  I will not let you down.  


TRUMP:  Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the Second Amendment.  Just remember that.  We're not talks about changing.  She wants to abolish the Second Amendment.  So we're not going to let that happen.  

Hillary Clinton will release violent criminals from jail more so than even Obama.  She has a more open policy than Obama if that's possible, and put innocent Americans at risk.  I'm going to put criminals behind bars and guarantee that law-abiding Americans have the right to self-defense 100 percent.  


TRUMP:  The only way to save our Second Amendment is to vote for a person that you all know named Donald Trump.  


CARLSON:  So how big a deal is this endorsement?  What role will the gun debate play in the coming election?  Joining us now with their informed reaction, FOX News contributor and former NYPD detective, our friend Bo Dietl, and Democratic strategist Brian Benjamin.  Brian, there are so many questions I could ask you.  I want to get to policies, I want to get to Hillary Clinton's position that to fix the murder epidemic in this country which is rising every year, that we need to allow people to sue gun manufacturers.  If a guy walks into a bar and opens fire, why will suing the maker of that firearm make anybody safer?  It will make trial lawyers richer, which is of course the point.  It will not save a single life.  That's insane.

BRIAN BENJAMIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST:  You're also aware that these gun dealers are --

CARLSON:  No, no.  The gun manufacturer, not the gun dealers, the gun manufacturers, Remington, Ruger, why would suing them save a life?  

BENJAMIN:  My point is they should not have immunity.  

CARLSON:  You're not answering my question.  

BENJAMIN:  I am answering your question.  

CARLSON:  No, no, this is their position.  You should be able to sue gun manufacturers for gun crimes.  Why will that save --

BENJAMIN:  It depends on the situation.  

CARLSON:  Name a situation where they would save a single life or be justified.  Name one.  

BENJAMIN:  Well, it just depends.  

CARLSON:  You can't.  Because it's insane.  

BENJAMIN:  It's not -- first of all, it's not insane.  

CARLSON:  Go ahead and defend it.  Tell me why that's a good idea.  

BENJAMIN:  Look, here's my position.  I'm talking about the dealers and manufacture.  

CARLSON:  I know I'm being mean.  

BENJAMIN:  You want to be very narrow --

CARLSON:  It's indefensible.  

BENJAMIN:  I'm going to give you a timeout to think.  


BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE:  Brian, can't you feel the wave?  The Trump wave is here.  All I can say is guns don't people.  People kill people.  

BENJAMIN:  With guns.  

DIETL:  Excuse me, Brian.  We're starting to feel the Trump wave.  I've known Trump 40 years.  I've been on the Trump bandwagon from the beginning.  

BENJAMIN:  Oh, my god.  

DIETL:  You say what he did with the NRA.  Now we got all the Cruz people, we got all people, we've got Democrats, Republicans.  People that love the right to carry weapons, and now all of a sudden they wave is coming.  And president Trump is coming.  And what happened today is going to revolve around this country for one thing.  We should have our rights.  We should have our freedoms.  And Trump stands up for it.  You have a very clear choice out there.  You've got Hillary, the liar, or you have Trump that's going to try to make this country straightened out a little bit.  

CARLSON:  Can I ask you a question?  

BENJAMIN:  Trump is the liar.  Trump is -- five minutes ago he was against assault weapons.  Now all of a sudden --

CARLSON:  Yes.  He's changed --


CARLSON:  I want to acknowledge the truth of what you just said.  Trump has changed his views on a lot of things.  So has Hillary.  We all have.  I've certainly changed my views on many, many things.  Let's address his positions today.  

BENJAMIN:  Let's do it.  

CARLSON:  Hillary Clinton makes the case that universal background checks are the key.  If I give my son a gun for Christmas and I have.  

BENJAMIN:  Right.  

CARLSON:  Should I have to undergo a background check?  She says yes.  Will that make America safer?  No.  Answer my question.  

BENJAMIN:  It will make America safer.  

CARLSON:  For me to undergo a background check to give my son a shotgun for Christmas --

BENJAMIN:  You're taking a very narrow --

CARLSON:  It's not narrow.  It's a point.  

BENJAMIN:  Does it make sense for terrorists -- should terrorists have to -- should they be allowed to buy guns?  

CARLSON:  What are you talking about?  

BENJAMIN:  If you're on the terrorist watch list, you should not be allowed to buy guns.  


BENJAMIN:  And if you're mentally ill --

CARLSON:  If you're on the terrorist watch list -- should you be in jail?  If you're a terrorist, shouldn't you be in prison?  


CARLSON:  Hold on.  Brian, Brian --

BENJAMIN:  We're studying them, trying to figure out stuff.  

DIETL:  Let me tune you in a little bit.  In Chicago, 130 young African-American kids killed, everyone by an illegal gun.  These aren't registered guns.  If we should be doing anything, we should have the firearm, tobacco -- we should have the task force here in Chicago --

BENJAMIN:  We should be doing more, not less.  You guys are advocating for less.  


BENJAMIN:  You're saying let kids carry guns in school.  

DIETL:  No, no, no.

CARLSON:  Chicago has the strictest gun control in America and the world's highest murder rate.  Why is that?

BENJAMIN:  Wait.  OK.  

CARLSON:  Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in country, has the strictest gun control.  You notice a connection there?  


BENJAMIN:  Your point, it's an assumption that if Chicago has more lenient gun control laws that there will be less crime.  

CARLSON:  I'm looking for an evidence-based argument from you.  I'm just trying.  

BENJAMIN:  The context, Chicago is a tougher city than --

DIETL:  Tucker, Brian is very difficult with this thing.  


DIETL:  He knows -- he knows -- he just is an anti-Trump guy.  

BENJAMIN:  I'm not anti-Trump.  Trump is a liar.  Trump is a liar.  


BENJAMIN:  Is Trump a liar?  Is Trump a liar?  Is Donald Trump a liar or not?  Tell the truth.  

CARLSON:  We're going to take a break.  

BENJAMIN:  Tucker, please.  Is he a liar?  Is Trump a liar?  

CARLSON:  Please stay tuned, because coming up next on "Hannity," watch this.  


CUOMO:  So you get into the general election if you're the nominee for your party.  

CLINTON:  I will be the nominee for my party, Chris.  That is already done in effect.  There is no way that I won't be.  


CARLSON:  Did you see that?  Hillary Clinton just put the tiara on.  She's crowned herself the Democratic nominee.  The Sanders campaign is saying, no, take it off, you haven't won yet.  Is Hillary getting ahead of herself?  That and a whole lot more.  Keep watching this show.  



CUOMO:  So you get into the general election if you're the nominee for your party.  

CLINTON:  I will be the nominee for my party, Chris.  That is already done in effect.  There is no way that I won't be.  


CARLSON:  Well, that's Hillary Clinton crowning herself the Democratic nominee.  And yet the party's nomination process is still in progress.  Bernie Sanders is reminding America of that.  He issued this stinging rebuttal to her comments.  He said, quote "In the past three weeks, voters in Indiana, West Virginia, and Oregon respectfully disagreed with Secretary Clinton.  We expect voters in the remaining nine contests will also disagree.  And with almost every national and state poll showing Senator Sanders doing much, much better than Secretary Clinton against Donald Trump, it is clear that millions of Americans have growing doubts about the Clinton campaign."

Joining us now with reaction, FOX News contributor and Sirius XM Patriot host David Webb and pollster Lee Carter.  It is great to see you both.  First to you, the Sanders campaign makes a really solid point.  

LEE CARTER, POLLSTER:  A really solid point.  

CARLSON:  This is not over.  And if it were, Hillary Clinton wouldn't be losing state after state.  The Democratic contests, as you know, are not winner take all.  

CARTER:  That's right.  

CARLSON:  They're everybody gets a participation trophy.  They're proportional.  


DAVID WEBB, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  And they're redistributed.  

CARLSON:  They are redistributed.  But it doesn't mean that voters aren't expressing a preference, and the preference is for Bernie Sanders.  

CARTER:  It's absolutely true.  And I think this week he also made a really good point where he said we got to have a new day in the Democratic Party.  We dial tested that.  It was off the charts.  People are saying enough is enough.  This isn't a coronation process.  The voice of the people want to be heard, and it's happening on the right and it's happening on the left.  

CARLSON:  OK, he's basically the American Hugo Chavez economically.  I disagree with everything Bernie Sanders has ever said prescriptively.  But he's running on something he believes.  He's running a very sincere campaign.  She's running on ambition.  Doesn't he deserve a voice?  

WEBB:  Even if you disagree with him, he deserves a voice in the American system.  The problem is the Democrat nomination system is not a representative structure.  They created the super-delegates so the party has control, and Bernie --

CARLSON:  Wait, wait.  I'm sorry to interrupt you, David.  This is the Democratic Party?  As in democracy, as in people participating?  That doesn't sound very Democratic.  

WEBB:  They have a less Democratic process than the Republicans, as arcane as the Republicans are.  But Bernie Sanders should get used to redistribution because proportional, they get votes.  He gets delegates.  She gets delegates.  But in the end the party commands the super-delegates.  They're what, 516 of them behind Hillary Clinton.  It is over, Bernie.  But you know what he is.  He is a leader of a movement.  He will leave it to Elizabeth Warren and to Kirsten Gillibrand and others who will take the party further left.  And Democrats are saying they don't recognize their party anymore.  

CARLSON:  It is really interestingly, Lee -- I think David is right, and she is right.  She is likely to be the nominee.  She is likely to win the contest.  But he won the argument long ago.  There is nothing that Democrats are talking about that he didn't interject into the conversation. He is in charge.  

CARTER:  He is totally in charge.  And she might be right but it doesn't matter that she is right.  What she needs to do is acknowledge that this movement is real.  People feel this way.  And by ignoring it, it makes them seem totally tone deaf to so many people who are supporting Bernie Sanders.  And she needs to convert those people to votes because we know right now a third of them say they would rather vote for Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton.  So if she doesn't listen to them and she doesn't say enough of this already.  She has to say, look, I understand people are frustrated and here is what I'm going to do about it.  You can't them turn them away and dismiss them.  

CARLSON:  It is so simple.  Why did Trump win, why is Sanders, despite his many limitations and his age and the fact he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, why is he doing so well?  Because he is running on an economic message, crazy as it might be, aimed at the middle class.  Why doesn't Hillary wake up and recognize that is the key to winning?  

WEBB:  Because she is what the Bernie supporters tell me when I go to their rallies, she is stale, she is the establishment.  I ask them for one word answers.  She is the 30-year-old rust bucket in car terms that has been in the Democrat Party for so long.  And Sanders and Trump went to the American people.  You have the billionaire who resonates with the blue-collar, and you've got the socialist who resonates with the budding young socialists who, by the way, will never want to live through his policies.  But this is what works right now with people who are disaffected in America with failures by government.  Think about it.  Think about how you and I talked about smaller government and federalism over the years in our many discussions.  People have say you failed, both sides have failed too many times, and we're disaffected.  

CARLSON:  But how lame is her campaign?  And I'm saying this as objectively as I can be, that she can't pivot sufficient to put this guy away when the lesson is so clear.  Speak to people's economic anxieties, and yet she is still talking about global warming and transgender bathrooms and things that people don't care about, because why would she?  

CARTER:  It is also policy for sure, but when she says stand with me.  What does that even mean?  

CARLSON:  Exactly.

CARTER:  And when I talk --  

CARLSON:  What would you counsel her to say?  You do this for a living.  You're a pollster.  

CARTER:  When she talks about opportunities and possibilities, she starts to tell her own story about how much she has overcome, how she went to law school, what it was like, and how she wants to create opportunities and possibilities for all people and here is how she is going do it, that would be a totally different situation.  But right now, I'm fighting for you, I'm with you, nobody knows what that means.  And the message for her seems absolutely impossible.  It doesn't seem credible or authentic coming from her.  

CARLSON:  She hasn't driven a car in 30 years.  She's surrounded by bodyguards.  Talk about out of touch.  She is the most famous woman on planet earth.  

WEBB:  For doing basically nothing but getting elected and traveling a million miles.  Look, let's assess the totality of the Clinton campaign.  She has no consistent core messaging.  She's unable to leave Bernie Sanders who has his teeth sunk into her left blank because she simply is a bad candidate.  She is unable to walk away from him and begin to pivot to the center where both candidates need to come to get independents, white males, white females, and other groups to win the election.  She is simply not going to be that person ever, and Sanders is going to sink his teeth in because he is thinking long-term, how do I move socialism forward?  

CARLSON:  It does look that way.  Very, very quickly, what is he going to ask for at the convention?  

CARTER:  I have no idea.  

CARLSON:  I don't either.  But it is going to be big.  It's bigger than rewriting the platform.  That is just silly.  Nobody cares about your dumb platform.  He is going to want something big.  

CARTER:  He's going to have to want something big, but I have no idea what

CARLSON:  I think we should have a contest.  I don't host this show very often, but tell Sean.  Text Sean, Twitter Sean, Facebook Sean.  What do you think Bernie Sanders is going to ask for in return for his endorsement?  Thank so much.  

WEBB:  I've asked that in my show many times.  

CARLSON:  This is the question of the season.  He is going to say something like wear a funny costume.  We'll see.  


CARLSON:  More "Hannity" right after the break.  Don't go away.


CARLSON:  Welcome back to the show.  Tragically, we're totally out of time.  Before we go, a quick programming not, be sure to tune in tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. for "Fox News Reporting: Donald Trump, the Disrupter."  Bret Baier is hosting it.  It is excellent.  Again, that's 8:00 p.m. tomorrow night.  Don't miss it.  Thanks for being with us.  I'll be hosting "Fox & Friends" tomorrow morning starting at 6:00 a.m.  You're foolish if you miss that.  Sean back Monday.  Have a great weekend.


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