KELLY FILE

Former executives on what it was like working for Trump; Trump Jr. talks campaign trail tone

Women who worked for the presidential candidate speak out on 'The Kelly File'

 

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," May 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, new voices are joining the fight after the New York Times digs deep for what Donald Trump calls a hit piece about the businessman and women.

Good evening and welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.  Tonight, a fierce new fight is broken out over dueling narratives concerning presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump. It all started this weekend. The New York Times publishing a less than flattering above the fold, front-page article about Trump and his treatment of women. The great lady says it interviewed dozens of other ladies who had either they did work for or with Mr. Trump over the years. We've been together a narrative, that it says shows a man who participated in, quote, "unsettling conduct towards women," but almost immediately one of the woman featured prominently to his article came to his defense suggesting that "The Times" mislead her and took her out of context. Watch.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROWANNE BREWER LANE, DATED DONALD TRUMP: I don't know how many other girls feel like they're misquoted, but I know that for a fact I was and I don't want that out there. He was a very good guy, Donald, and I think he's doing a good job in this race and I think that some people have a problem with that.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Still not everyone shared her opinion. Another woman quoted who served as his head of construction in the 1980s says, Trump changed as he became more and more famous.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1980 people were a lot more chauvinistic as than they are now. It's interesting, the times got better and he got worse.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: In moments that woman will be here live along with another high- powered woman who also worked for Donald Trump. She has a different take on this.

Plus, Judge Andrew Napolitano is here to talk about whether the Clinton camp can really claim the moral high ground on this issue.  

But first our chief political correspondent campaign Carl Cameron reporting tonight from New York City. Hey, Carl?  

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT CAMPAIGN: Hi, Megyn.  This was six weeks in the making and the New York Times top reporters were engaged in it and obviously it was meant to be a deep dive into Donald Trump's personal relations with women over the course of the last 30 or so years. And when one came forward on "Fox & Friends" this morning to complain that she in fact had been misquoted in her view and had specifically said she did not want to be part of what Trump's dubbed hit piece, felt as though it became part of some sort of deliberate smear.  Listen.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANE: They put a negative connotation and spun it to where it appeared negative. I did not have a negative experience with Donald Trump. He was very kind, thoughtful, generous. You know, he was a gentleman.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: It didn't take long for Donald Trump himself to call CNN and other media outlets to say, did you see what just happened on Fox News? He hit Twitter immediately and said that, what she said ostensibly proved that The New York Times article was a planned hit piece and a fraud. And so there's one person that for at least a time gives Donald Trump a bit of a respite for what has been an awful lot of attention on his, quote, "problem with women." His unfavorables are very high in the polls there and there are others in that piece that have not come forward to say, that they were misquoted and obviously, there are some who were listed there that had favorable views of Donald Trump as well. So, an opportunity for Trump to pound on "The New York Times" but it doesn't necessarily make the problem go away -- Megyn.  

KELLY: Carl, thank you. My next guests both worked for Donald Trump.  Senada Adzem is a former Trump International vice president and Barbara Res is a former Trump organization VP and executive VP. Great to see you both.

Barbara, let me start with you because you are featured quite a bit in this New York Times piece and you were the first head of construction for Trump's company, the one that Fred Trump, Donald father's said, really?  You're going to hire a woman for that position and Trump did it at a time when not a lot of women were getting those kind of breaks.

BARBARA RES, FORMER TRUMP ORGANIZATION VP AND EXECUTIVE VP: Yes.

KELLY: So, at the time. In your experience with him, did he seem sexist to you?

RES: Yes. You have to understand, you got to put it in the context of the times. This is 1980 so everybody was sexist and we were in the construction industry so that was sexist. But as far as Donald was concerned, no he wanted the best person and he thought I was the best person and he picked me.  

KELLY: And so, the times talks about a moment that you had with Donald Trump where you started to think he was getting worst in that regard, that he was getting more sexist as the years went on.  

RES: Yes.  

KELLY: Is that true?

RES: Absolutely. I mean, I worked for him for a long time, but from '80 to '84 we were very, very close and we talked all the time and he never came across as anything but, you know, very, very respectful with women.  And when I returned back to the Trump organization in '87, he was a little bit different the way he talked about women in his office. You know, he would refer to women and the women in the office he would look at them a little bit like a leering kind of thing. I saw a change, definite change but the big change came and I'd say, 1989, '91 when the whole Marla thing happened. And you know, when he did Playboy Magazine, that was just -- it seemed unreasonable and unheard of for him at the time. So, I was surprised to see him change. Slowly but surely. He started saying more things that surprised me up to this day.  

KELLY: And I'm going to get to the specifics of that, but I want to bring in Senada who, you have nothing but glowing things to say about Mr. Trump.  You also experienced some language that may have been diminishing, but you say he was an equal opportunity offender.  

SENADA ADZEM, FORMER TRUMP INTERNATIONAL VP: Well, listen, he's a businessman and I know that he doesn't have the greatest history in terms of what he says about many women, but in a professional setting and I was running four different projects in terms of marketing between 2003 and 2007 he was extraordinarily professional. He was very tough but he was fair.  

KELLY: Did you two know each other, Senada, you and Barbara?

ADZEM: I did not. Unfortunately I didn't have the pleasure of meeting Barbara because I was there in 2003.  

KELLY: Okay. So, did you Senada ever experience, you know, what you perceived as sexism and on the other hand, did you experience Trump giving you and or other women unusual or extraordinary opportunities?

ADZEM: Absolutely not. It was equal opportunity in that regardless whether you're a man or a women, regardless of where you came from, what mattered to Mr. Trump were results. And if you produced results, if in my case it was actually setting record prices for different projects and getting, you know, incredible price per square foot and record sell out it didn't matter who you were as long as you produced results.

KELLY: Barbara, what was the language you say he used that you thought was problematic?

RES: When did I say used language that was problematic?  

KELLY: I'm sorry?

RES: I'm sorry. I didn't really say used language. He was talking, referencing women in a different way that was unusual. I gave a for instance in the article of the times where he made a comment about women and their bodies when we were talking with an architect in 1991.  

KELLY: Did he say something to you about weight gain?  

RES: Oh, at one point, yes, I had put on some weight. This was quite a bit later and he said something like, oh, you like your candy or something like that.  

KELLY: Now, another woman quoted in the "Times" piece said, he did make comments from time to time Senada on women's bodies, but that she thought he meant it as to be helpful she says, that he thought -- quote, this is Louise Sunshine, she experienced these observations from Trump when she gained weight, but she saw it as a friendly encouragement. He thought I looked much better thin. I mean, what's your takeaway Senada, because you know, a lot of women will be at home saying, you know, I don't need any man telling me, I like my candy when I put on a few extra pounds, so what's your takeaway when you hear it?  

ADZEM: Well, as it happens I ended up where I think for Louise Sunshine, who was mentored by Mr. Trump, and I'm going to tell you that she was actually much tougher than Mr. Trump when it came to performance or when it came to appearance. In real estate development and real estate marketing world just like the media world you have to look very presentable. You have to look your best. We worked with ultrahigh net worth clients with the super-rich and they expected you to look and be very, very presentable and they expected you to look a certain way because you were more relatable.

KELLY: Senada, are you going to vote for Donald Trump?

ADZEM: Well, unfortunately I'm not going to discuss that because I have many clients who may not want to know what my political leanings are.  

KELLY: Fair enough. What about you Barbara?  

RES: I think Hillary is better for the women with the different issues.

KELLY: Fascinating. Thank you both so much for being here. We appreciate your candor and your time.  

RES: You're welcome.

ADZEM: Thank you.  

KELLY: Well, while this New York Times article is getting a lot of media attention, so far the Clinton campaign has stayed silent on the report.

Judge Andrew Napolitano joins us on that. Judge, I think the Trump campaign suggests this is a plant by the Clinton campaign in "The New York Times."

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS JUDICIAL ANALYST: It was a pretty watered down plant if it was. I mean, if you read the entire article I don't think they laid a glove on Donald Trump.  

KELLY: But they talk about how it's complicated. I mean, in defense of the times, they don't come out and say, he's a chauvinist, they say it's complicated. And do you not think that's fair when it comes to Donald Trump and women.  

NAPOLITANO: Yes, I think it is complicated and I think he's complicated, but if the worst they have on his behavior about women is the stuff that's in that article, he asked a lady if she wanted to wear a bathing suit at a pool party and she changed in some bathing suit in private, big deal.  

KELLY: How about saying to a woman who has gained weight, oh, you like your candy.  

NAPOLITANO: Well, you know, I don't think that's disqualifying. And I am not here to defend her.

KELLY: We're not talking about disqualifying, we're talking about problematic.  

NAPOLITANO: Okay. It is problematic. The New York Times has the right to go there just as The New York Post has the right to go where is the Clinton Foundation money going to. These are legitimate issues.  

KELLY: But on the subject of the Clintons and women --

NAPOLITANO: Right.

KELLY: You know, I was looking into it in the past and what's there? We know what Bill allegedly did. What did Hillary allegedly do because Trump has been sounding that bell?  

NAPOLITANO: Hillary allegedly was an enabler. Hillary decided to defend her husband. Now, many people would say, what do you expect a wife to do?  Okay. That's a legitimate inquiry.  

KELLY: You don't have to tear down a woman who is saying she had an affair with your husband.

NAPOLITANO: Correct.

KELLY: You can tear down your husband, you can stay silent.  

NAPOLITANO: But the public has the right to know what makes Hillary tick.  Why did she defend Bill? Why did she stay with Bill during this time period? Why did she attack the woman who presented competent credible evidence against him because the public has the right to know how Hillary reacts under stress. These are all legitimate areas of inquiry. Donald Trump's treatment of women, Hillary Clinton's treatment of women. All this stuff is something that the press is free to focus on and they should focus on it because the press should be forceful and fearless. These two people want to be president.

KELLY: That's right.

NAPOLITANO: As you said this morning very nicely, they want George Washington's job.

KELLY: Great.

NAPOLITANO: We have the right to know everything about them.  

KELLY: If you're a sexist, if you abuse women, if you are disrespectful to them whether you're a man or women, then we as the press need to look into it. But looking at Hillary's history, you know, there were three women who alleged that they had actually had a non-consensual encounter if you will with Bill Clinton.

NAPOLITANO: Right.

KELLY: Not one of those settled out of court Paula Jones.

NAPOLITANO: Yes.

KELLY: The other two didn't go anywhere. Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broaddrick but then there was the Jennifer Flowers affair which was a 12 year on and off sexual relationship between Flowers and Bill Clinton.  According to Karl Bernstein, his biography of Mrs. Clinton, Hillary called her trailer trash, her strategist James Carville said, if you drag a $100 bill through a trailer park, you'll never know what you'll find.

NAPOLITANO: Well, that's one of the most devastating things that he said because that arguably resulted in the impeachment.

KELLY: And Jennifer Flowers said that she believes Mrs. Clinton ran a war room to smear defame and harm adversaries like her.  

NAPOLITANO: Okay. If there is evidence of that, then the press is entitled to pursue it and they are entitled to ask Mrs. Clinton about it because it is behavior that she has an obligation to defend.

KELLY: You don't think she's going to get away with no, I'm not talking about it.  

NAPOLITANO: I don't think she can. I don't think so. She has got so many problems on this is adding to them.  

KELLY: Judge, it's great to see you.  

NAPOLITANO: Great to see you. Knock them dead tomorrow night.  

KELLY: Oh, thank you very much. Tomorrow at 8:00 is the Megyn Kelly --

Well, we also have dramatic new reports developing tonight about what really happened when Iran captured a group of U.S. sailors and new claims that the administration may be sitting on the explosive details. You have got to see this story. We'll bring them to you.  

Plus, you saw just a little of the fierce fallout from this report on this "New York Times" report on Trump. Up next, see what happens when I asked him about the temperament issue and hear from the man who's been campaigning tirelessly for his dad, Donald Trump Junior here in the "Kelly File" very first, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Most kids between the ages of six and 16 have been bullied at some point in their lives. Were you ever bullied?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: Well, Donald Trump again dominated the news cycle today as fallout continues from this New York Times report on his past treatment of women.  And in less than 24 hours from right now he will answer some questions about temperament in my first interview with him since the opening GOP debate nine plus months ago. In a special on a FOX broadcast network, you know, it's like Homer Simpson FOX, American Idol FOX, I asked Mr. Trump about the impact of his message considering his enormous media reach.  Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: You are so powerful. You are so powerful now.  

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't view myself as that. I view myself as a person that like everybody else is fighting for survival.  That's all I view myself as. And I really view myself now as somewhat of a messenger. You know, this is a massive thing that's going on. These are millions and millions of people that have been disenfranchised from this country.  

KELLY: It's true. But they're listening to you and they're taking their cue from you, so that's the question is whether now so close to the Oval Office, whether you will take that responsibility seriously and change your tone to try to be more unifying and less divisive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Joining me now is Donald Trump Junior. He's been campaigning for his dad and he is the executive vice president of Development and Acquisitions at the Trump organization. Don, thanks so much for being here.  

DONALD TRUMP, JR., EXECUTIVE VP, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Good to be here.  

KELLY: So, let's pick up on that point. You know, what I was to talking to him about there was the enormous power of the megaphone and it's only getting bigger for him. You know, that he's not a reality TV show host now. I mean, he could be the president next January. Do you think with that rise comes a greater responsibility to be more careful in your language?

TRUMP JR.: No, I think the rise is largely in part because of the tone, because he's finally saying the things that everyone wants to say, that all these working people in this country, the hardworking blue collar people in this country who have been left in the dust, the people who don't have an asterisk and don't get special treatment for doing nothing, he's giving them a voice again. I mean, I think that's so important and that's why the rise is.

KELLY: And what about, you know, there are other issues. It's not just make America great again, it's look at Carly Fiorina's face, you know, things like that and the comment about Mexico sending its rapist rapists, that's the stuff I was talking about.  

TRUMP JR.: When he says there's rapists coming across the border, that's a fact. That's not everyone, and he didn't say it's everyone. But the media has a convenient way of saying, this is what he said and part of the problems that I've seen --  

KELLY: How about Fiorina?

TRUMP JR.: You know, he's an aggressive guy. He's a tough guy. When he talks he's going to treat everyone the same way. It's not about women, men. He did the same thing to a Marco, he did the same thing to a Jeb.  

KELLY: So no change.  

TRUMP JR.: You know, I think he'll change. And again, I've seen him be incredibly charismatic. You can't do what he's done with the people that he's done it with all over the world, different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different cultures, different countries, he's done this for 40 years, Megyn. He can be as charismatic as anyone, but there also comes a time when you actually say, enough is enough.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

TRUMP JR.: You have to put down the hammer. And that's what people like to see, Megyn.  

KELLY: He talks about himself as a counter puncher. I will submit to you that if a journalist asks you tough questions, it is not counterpunching to go after the press, I'm not talking about me, I'm just talking about in general. It is not counterpunching, we the press are the counterpunchers, we are paid to hold the presidential candidates to account.  

TRUMP JR.: And yes, when there's nonsense, and there was a lot of it. I mean, it's a very disingenuous process. And that's what I've seen all along the way. Right? I see him give a speech for an hour and they'll take a sentence from, you know, minute number one, a sentence from minute number 15, a sentence from minute number 37 and they'll combine it into like one thought until he said this. Well, yes, he said that, but in the context.

KELLY: Yes.

TRUMP JR.: He can't combine three sentences from four parts of a speech and say that was the point of the speech. It doesn't work that way.  

KELLY: Do you feel like they're turning on him? Do you feel like media outlets that were fair in the primary process are now starting to turn now that he's being --  

TRUMP JR.: When you look at "The New York Times," that article, I'm watching this all day. I mean, like we don't have more important things to do, like we don't have to worry about jobs and real security issues and our safety of our kids and our grandkids, you know, it's insane that I'm seeing this. You know, now, I understand that there are, you know, Hillary Clinton's number one surrogate, I mean, they're out there doing this stuff every day and that's their job and I guess they see it that way, they're no longer the media but it's ridiculous.  

KELLY: Is it irritating for you? I mean, you're his son.  

TRUMP JR.: Look, I know the guy. You know, I know the father. I know the grandfather that's playing golf with my two-year-old daughter. Right? I mean, I see that guy so I see the softer side. I also had the guy that has given women throughout his career opportunities back in the 80s in construction when that was unheard off.

KELLY: Yes.

TRUMP JR.: He gave them opportunities. Now, if they don't, you know, capitalize on that later on in their lives and they come back 30 years later and say, oh, it was so, terrible, I mean --

KELLY: What is he telling the lady, you like your candy? You know in fact a lot of women sitting at home right now are like, I did not want anybody telling me I like my candy.  

TRUMP JR.: He said that to me too. You know, this is not, you know --

KELLY: Isn't that irritating? Are you like, yes, and I'm going to eat it.

TRUMP JR.: But you know what? He's a tough guy. He's going to say stuff.  He's not always going to sit there and cater to everyone's thoughts. And that's really the point. And again, I think Americans like that. I think they like a guy who can be the leader of this country who is not going to bow to the enemies that we have all over the world, the people that treat us like garbage, they love to wipe us off the face of the earth, he's not going to bow to them, he's going to call him out, he's going to say what he's actually thinking. And not pretend there's not really an issue and stick your head in the sand and just does nothing going on, don't worry, everything is fine here, and wait eight years and not get anything done.  He's going to be the guy that answers the phone at 3:00 in the morning.  He's going to take, you know, take action, he's going to do something. I think we need that for a change because it's not -- right now.

KELLY: I like, you go the same gestures as he does.  

TRUMP JR.: I can't help it.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: I think it is.

TRUMP JR.: Honestly, he's a passionate guy and he loves this country. He loves what this country has been able to do for him, both from a family perspective, from a business perspective, from an opportunity perspective and he wants to make sure that's available for everyone else because no one else is getting that chance anymore.  

KELLY: Donald Trump, Jr. great to see you.  

TRUMP JR.: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: All the best to you and your family.

TRUMP JR.: Likewise.

KELLY: So, here to weigh in all of this, Ben Domenech whose publisher of the Federalist. Ben, Donald Trump Junior makes a nice case for his dad.  Do you think that these Republicans who might be reticent to, you know, get on the Trump train are going to buy it.

BEN DOMENECH, THE FEDERALIST, PUBLISHER: You know, I think it really has to do with what we see from Donald Trump over these coming weeks and months. It is going to be something that plays out over the course of this election. I think this issue of temperament is actually going to be a much bigger deal than any of the accusations of the kind thrown at Donald Trump.  

KELLY: And that's what the entire interview tomorrow night is about, temperament. That's what it's about --

DOMENECH: Exactly. And that's I think very important because you're anticipating with that as the topic that this is going to be the way that Hillary Clinton and the Clinton machine approaches Donald Trump. It's not so much about the women where they have their own vulnerabilities with Bill, it's more going to be this is someone who is not prepared to be commander-in-chief and that's because of these various things that he says, it's because of things that we can't really trust when it comes to the words that are coming out of his mouth and basically the view that the general view that the Clintons have that he's not someone who should be in this office.

For Republicans who are questioning right now whether they can unify behind Donald Trump, the more that he's out there saying things that make them nervous, the more that they're going to draw back. The more that he is out there saying things that sound serious and tough to Donald Trump Jr.'s point, the more that they're going to be willing to come along and unite around him as the party's nominee.

KELLY: You know, you tell me, but you ask, you know, the Trump family or even Trump himself whether we should expect to see some big change the answer is pretty much no, you know, past this prologue and it's worked so far for him and as you heard Don Junior say, this is what the American people want. So, do you think these Republicans who are like he's going to change, don't worry, are they kidding themselves?

DOMENECH: I think they are kidding themselves, Megyn. I think we know who Donald Trump is and I think we've seen it play out over the course of this election. I don't think that he's going to change, but I do think that there's some different aspects that he could focus his fire basically to help his standing with these Republicans who are reticent to come behind him. The less that he's engaging in vulgar personal attacks on people, the more that he is sounding tough actual rhetoric as it relates to policy and to America's enemies, the more that they're going to be willing to line up behind him. This is a very critical moment for Donald Trump because he can absolutely achieve that by focusing his fire on Hillary Clinton, on Democrats, and bringing alongside of him Republicans who he can look to for counsel on a lot of these different issues in a serious way. The meeting with Paul Ryan, the meeting with the senators in Washington --  

KELLY: A full call with Lindsey Graham.

DOMENECH: Yes, exactly.

KELLY: A full call with Lindsey Graham, Ben.

DOMENECH: So, it's the -- the olive branch is extended. So, I think it's one of the situations though where we have to see whether over time that's something where his tone, his focus is more on the Democrats and more on attacking America's enemies and less on attacking his fellow Republicans.  

KELLY: Great to see you, sir.  

DOMENECH: Good to be with you.  

KELLY: Again, my very first interview with Donald Trump since the August 6, Fox News debate will air tomorrow. It's part of my new prime time special on the FOX Broadcast Network. Not FNC. It's over your local FOX.  It's called "Megyn Kelly Presents" tomorrow night 8 p.m. And again, that's the American Idol, the Empire FOX, the Simpson FOX. In addition to Donald Trump, we have got exclusive interviews with Michael Douglas. How is he doing? The tabloids say, he has only got a couple of months to live.

Robert Shapiro, O.J. Simpson's very first defense attorney who makes unbelievable, unbelievable admissions or discussions or disclosures to me about this case which I've never heard before. If you are interested in O.J., you should see the Shapiro interview.

And Laverne Cox from "Orange is the New Black" who is very forthcoming, very lovely and I think will help a lot of people see the struggles of transwomen like Laverne in a very different light. Megyn Kelly presents airs tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. at local FOX station. Well, the story made front page headlines. U.S. sailors humiliated on an international stage. And tonight, we are hearing dramatic news reports about how the humiliation did not end when the cameras stopped rolling. So, why did we thank the Iranians when we got these guys back?  

Plus, former defense secretary Robert Gates is now suggesting that Trump's foreign policy maybe, quote, "detached from reality." Is that fair? Mike Huckabee and Dan Senor are next in a debate on one of the hottest issues, ahead.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Breaking tonight. New reaction coming after Former Defense Secretary Bob Gates slammed Donald Trump when it comes to foreign policy.

Gates has served under eight different administrations from Obama and Bush and Carter to Reagan, but he says he's never seen anything quite like Trump. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I have some real issues with things he said about national security policy and some concerns.

I think there are some contradictions. You can't have a trade war with China and then turn around and ask them to help you on North Korea.

I have no idea what his policy would be in terms of dealing with ISIS.

I worry a little bit about his admiration for Vladimir Putin. One of the things that make it challenging for me is that he seems to think that he has all the answers and that he doesn't need any advice from staff or anybody else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you serve him if he asked?

GATES: Well, I learned a long time ago never to say never, but let's just say that that would be inconceivable to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Joining me now, Mike Huckabee, former Republican presidential candidate and the former governor of Arkansas. Dan Senor is the former adviser to both the Romney Ryan campaign and the Pentagon. Great to see you both.

So, Robert Gates, not necessarily a Trump fan from the sound of it. I realize that some voters out there don't care what Bob Gates thinks but most people who pay attention say he's a straight shooter. What do you say, Governor?

MIKE HUCKABEE, FORMER GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he's a straight shooter, I think he's reflecting what he believes, but I don't know how well he knows Donald Trump.

And I think the people who do know Donald Trump know that Donald Trump is a man that surrounds himself with people who knows things he doesn't know. And he does listen to them. There is a ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: ... that question about you can't have a trade war with China and then turn around and ask them to help you on North Korea.

HUCKABEE: There are a lot of things that you say in politics that you say publicly that you do because it's a posturing. It's part of the process. And then you also are talking to people in intimate conversations and bringing them in, it's part of a legislative process. I've spent many years in it ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: So what you are saying is it's a bunch of baloney ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: No.

KELLY: ... that you're running but then ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: No.

KELLY: ... you get more (ph) people around you when you're in.

HUCKABEE: It is not about baloney. No. It's about making sure that there is a clear indication publicly that the United States of America is not going to back down no matter who it is, whether it's China or whether it's North Korea.

I don't think that you're going to see Russia flying fighters 30 feet over a Navy destroyer if Donald Trump is president.

KELLY: God, Yeah.

DAN SENOR, FORMER ROMNEY RYAN CAMPAIGN ADVISER: For the last eight years, many republicans critiqued President Obama for not being tough enough on our adversaries and being too tough on our allies.

Look at one of our biggest adversaries, someone working against U.S. interest today is Vladimir Putin. Donald Trump, I mean, you may know what he says behind the scene, but I'm just reacting at the things Secretary Gates as to what he says in public.

Donald Trump revels in the flattery from Putin. He basically wants to -- but not what (ph) he says he wants to withdraw from NATO, so basically the collapse of NATO and the collapse of Europe, which will be a dream for Putin, he basically has the same policies as it relates to (inaudible) that Putin has.

So just go issue after issue after issue. Here, we critique Hillary Clinton's reset. I mean, Donald Trump would be weaker on Putin than Hillary Clinton.

HUCKABEE: I disagree with that. I don't think he would be weak at all. I think he has a respect for Putin because Putin is just the kind of guy when he sees a weak president like Obama, he just shoves it up his nostrils. I don't think he would be doing that with Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: So you don't think Putin on month one or year one of a Trump presidency - I hate to say those words, the Trump presidency ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: Get used to it.

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: ... but look at me, year one of the Trump presidency, you don't think that Vladimir Putin will say, all right, I've got a friend in the White House who has got my back ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: No.

SENOR: ... so i'm going to invade Estonia, I'm going to invade Lithuania, in fact, this president Trump has collapsed NATO which has been a killer of the American Trans-Atlantic alliance. I want to see what I can get away with.

China, another strategic ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: I think you're talking about Obama. That is not ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: This is word for ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: That is not who Donald Trump is.

SENOR: ... this is word for word on what Donald Trump -- on China. Trump has praised the way the Chinese government clamped down on the Tiananmen Square massacre. Something I know you were -- I don't really chew that. Any democracy, freedom-loving American would be horrified by what China - the Chinese communist did at Tiananmen Square.

Trump praised it. In fact today he says Japan should get a nuclear weapon. Korea should get a nuclear weapon. So he's for an ascendant communist China ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: There are ...

SENOR: ... Human rights ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: ... and is for nuclear proliferation ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: ... for the Donald Trump as to running himself with, Jeff sessions among many, who is the most level-headed, one of the most confident ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: I don't have a problem. I like Jeff Sessions. I have a problem with Donald Trump and what he is saying. How do you understand what he said about Russia and China? Had you rather had Hillary Clinton because I had not. I know both of these people, and trust me on this, we can't have another eight years of Obama policy ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: So is the best defense of Trump, hey, he's terrible ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: You know what I think ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: ... but he's only slightly less terrible than Hillary Clinton.

HUCKABEE: I'll tell you the best defense. I think he's going to put America first. It's been a long time since we have had a president that put America above all of our interests.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Can you respond to what Dan is saying?

HUCKABEE: In what way because yes, I just did respond.

SENOR: Withdrawing from NATO. I think Putin wants America out of NATO. Putin wants NATO to collapse. Donald Trump wants America ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: ... about NATO that he wants America to quit paying for all the expenses and us basically being played ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: You know what the state of the European economies are. If America stops funding NATO, NATO disappears. Dan, I know what the state of the American economy is. I know that Americans want America to start acting like a country ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: OK.

HUCKABEE: ... that is on top rather than getting whipped ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: When Donald Trump said he is releasing Palestinians, I want to cut a deal and it will be the deal of the century, deal of a lifetime, it's so there are sort of equal ...

(CROSSTALK)

HUCKABEE: They're not equal.

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: You've spent a lot of time in Israel ...

(CROSSTALK)

SENOR: ... does that not worry you that he has such a complete lack of knowledge about the region? Let alone a real connection to the state of Israel as it's dealing with a range of threats throughout the region?

HUCKABEE: I didn't agree with him on that but I'm telling you this, I would rather have him because I think he is willing to learn about the big difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I don't think Hillary has the capacity to change her mind. I think she's iron clad.

SENOR: I've been involved with Republican and Conservative national security (inaudible) for decades. I'm sad to say that our nominee the best we can say for him is that he'll be slightly less worse than the democratic nominee.

KELLY: I got to leave it there. But this is fascinating. You can come back once a week, I get to block off. This is the best kind of debate between two really smart people who really believe what they're saying and I appreciate it, both of you. It's good, right? It's good.

Secretary John Kerry thanked Iran after they released our 10 American sailors that the Iranians have taken hostage. But new reports tonight suggest that what Iran really did to these men deserved anything but a thank you. We'll dig into that with former Bush speech writer, Marc Thiessen and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Larry Korb, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Developing today, the stunning new claim from a key congressman is reopening the debate over what happened when Iran grabbed 10 American sailors and took them hostage.

Images of cheerful American sailors being held at gunpoint by the Iranian National Guard set off national shockwaves, but now this congressman, who had a classified briefing on the incident, said the public will be equally shocked to learn just how poorly those sailors were treated. Trace Gallagher in our West Coast Newsroom with the very latest. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES FOX NEWS: Megyn, when the 10 U.S. sailors were captured by Iranian forces, they were blindfolded, separated, interrogated, they were also mocked by Iranian leaders and the Iranian people.

Images of the sailors surrendering on their knees, crying and apologizing at gunpoint infuriated Americans and politicians on both sides of the isle.

Secretary of State John Kerry was also angered by the video but said the sailors appeared to be well taken care of and he thanked the Iranian authorities for their cooperation and quick response.

Kerry also said that if not for the recent diplomatic efforts by the Obama administration toward Iran, the capture would have played out much differently. Well, now, a member of the House Armed Services Committee is indicating the capture did play out differently.

Republican Virginia congressman Randy Forbes says, during a classified military briefing, he's been told the Obama administration is keeping details of the capture under wraps saying, "I think that when the details actually come out, most Americans are going to be kind of taken aback by the entire incident, both how Iran handled it and how we handled it ..."

"I think it's going to be a huge cause for concern for most Americans." But Forbes says it could be more than a year before the information is released. We contacted the White House but so far, no response.

And all of this comes while "The New York Times" is reporting that when the sailors were captured back in January, President Obama's Deputy National Security Advisor, Ben Rhodes, was annoyed that he couldn't suppress the story for a few more hours so it wouldn't conflict with the President's final State of the Union speech. Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining us out with reaction, Marc Thiessen, who is a former chief speech writer for President George W. Bush and a FOX News contributor, and Larry Korb, who is the former Assistant Secretary of Defense and a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress. Good to see you both.

MARC THIESSEN, FORMER CHIEF SPEECH WRITER FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Good to see you, Megyn.

KELLY: Marc, this is your -- this is what you study, you know, you're a foreign policy guy and now we find out we're going to be shocked when we found out the truth about what happened to our sailors, the very sailors who said that they were in the wrong and who we were assured by John Kerry were well treated. Isn't that what he said that they were well taken care of?

THIESSEN: He did. He gushed about the Iranian treatment of these people. He said, he didn't just thank them, he gushed about these people. He said that -- that he appreciated the quick and appropriate response of the Iranian authorities. He expressed "my gratitude" to the Iranian authorities.

He said our troops were well taken of. We know even without the classified details, we know that that's not true. These people -- these boats were hijacked by the Iranian authorities in violation of international law.

These people were forced to surrender at gunpoint. They issued photos, humiliating photos of these people with their hands above their heads, crying in a position of surrender, which is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

They forced them to film videos, confessing that they were at fault, thanking the Iranians for their treatment which evoked the POW videos from Vietnam, and John Kerry is saying this is a testament to American diplomacy.

This is a humiliation for the United States of America, not only where we humiliated, he actually thanked them for humiliating us.

KELLY: Larry, what about this, because he -- you know, we were told that we should be thankful to the Iranians and now you have got this classified briefing and this congressman comes out and says when the details come out, most Americans are going to be taken aback by this entire incident, both how Iran handled it and how we handled it. It will be a huge cause for concern.

LARRY KORB, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS SENIOR FELLOW: Well let's get something straight. We went into their territorial waters. There is no doubt about that. In fact, the Navy has relieved the X.O. who is the number two on the squadron for not doing ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Did they fire him?

KORB: Yeah. Well, OK, the Navy calls it relieved, OK?

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Whatever.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: ... relieved of his ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: The U.S. Navy said on Thursday they fired the Commander of the 10 American sailors. Fired makes it -- relieved makes it sound like they did something nice.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: All right, I'm a retired -- OK, they relieved him because he didn't do his job in training these people. They went into Iranian waters. What Kerry thanked them for was letting them out in less than a day and nobody's been physically harmed, OK?

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Well, how do you know that?

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: You don't know that.

KORB: Well because the Navy has already told us. And in fact, the Navy is investigating also the commander of the unit ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: If nobody was physically harmed, why did we see the one sailor crying, crying on that tape?

KORB: OK, there's a difference between physical -- they didn't waterboard them or anything like we did.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: How do you know?

KORB: Well, we know that. OK? Because ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: We do not know.

KORB: Yes we do, OK? Because if they did, we would have already complained. The Navy was the one who said, even before Kerry did, we thanked them. They were treated well and we're happy to have them back.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: I don't know, Marc.

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: You realized what happened when the Chinese ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: It doesn't match up with what this congressman is saying, Larry Korb.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: I know.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: He's got a political agenda here. Hey, wait a second.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Well, this information is going to be released within a year so we're going to know one way or the other. Go ahead Marc.

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: Larry, hold on. Larry says that they went into Iranian -- Larry says they went into territorial waters. They have -- they have what's called, under any customary international law, sovereign immunity for innocent passage. They are not supposed to be detained.

Iran has no right, under international law ...

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: This is a war ship going ...

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: Larry...

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: ... into territorial waters.

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: ... Larry, U.S. cannot -- they're allowed to -- they're allowed to alert them, they're allowed to tell them to go on their way, they are not allowed to seize the boat under international law.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: This is a war ship. This is not a Viking river cruise. A war ship goes into somebody else's territorial waters.

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: You don't know the international law, Larry. They are not allowed to do that. They are not allowed to ...

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: ... film them and they are not allowed to put up propaganda videos forcing people in their custody to confess to crimes and to thank Iranian authorities. They are not allowed to show pictures of them ...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Those are the things we know about.

(CROSSTALK)

THIESSEN: . that are humiliating.

(CROSSTALK)

KORB: Wait, wait, wait.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Go ahead.

KORB: In your first year in office, the Chinese forced down a plane, OK? They forced it to land on Hainan island. They kept it for 11 days and you guys apologized to the Chinese even though they hit it with one of their planes.

So don't give me this idea that somehow this is worse. When the "Pueblo" was captured, they were there for a year. Fifteen hours, let me tell you.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Now we're taking a walk down memory lane. I can't do it because I got heart break coming in 15 seconds. It's great to see you both.

THIESSEN: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: My pleasure.

Every day, police officers save the lives of people they don't know. Thirteen unbelievable stories were honored at the White House today. "The Kelly File" has the details on their incredible stories. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Word travels fast when police officers allegedly do the wrong thing. But what about the times they go above and beyond protecting and serving with uncompromising bravery?

Thirteen police officers were recognized today for doing just that. Trace Gallagher has the story. Trace?

GALLAGHER: Megyn, the officers were given the Public Safety Medal of Valor, the nation's highest honor for police officers.

The President recognized them for their exceptional courage, saying the actions of the 13 officers helped save countless lives. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The truth is, it's because of your courage, sometimes seen but sometimes unseen, that the rest of us can go about living our lives like it's any other day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: President Obama called on all Americans to support law enforcement with deeds as well as words and he thanked the officers who did not come home, including Philadelphia Police Sergeant Robert Wilson III who was shot and killed while confronting two video store robbers.

But he was able to draw the robbers away from the staff and customers, keeping them out of the crossfire. Today, Wilson was honored posthumously and while the President honors courage, some law enforcement leaders say this administration has a tendency to pick sides before the facts are in, and that has damaged the bond between police and their communities.

Now, the National Fraternal Order of Police is launching an awareness campaign to highlight everyday acts of heroism. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what we're going to do is show the American public that we're doing our jobs, we're not scared to do our jobs, and they we're doing what we've done for years in this country and that's community- oriented policing, trying to make our communities safer and better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And you can find those stories and all that information at ourtrueheroes.org. Megyn?

KELLY: Trace, thank you. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: And don't forget, the wait is almost over. My interview with Donald Trump airs tomorrow night on "Megyn Kelly Presents." That's at 8 o'clock on the FOX Broadcast Network. You know, "American Idol," "Empire," "Simpson's" FOX.

Trump is fascinating and there will be a couple of very surprising moments. But let me tell you, Laverne Cox, Michael Douglas and Robert Shapiro are fascinating, too.

Shapiro goes into great detail about the defense strategy in O.J., Laverne gets personal about almost taking her life as a child.

And Michael Douglas responds to a bizarre moment on the campaign trail that involves one of his most famous characters.

Tomorrow night, "Megyn Kelly Presents," 8:00 p.m., Local FOX.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Most kids between the ages of 6 and 16 have been bullied at some point in their lives. Were you ever bullied?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.