Facebook to host conservative media figures on Wednesday

In over 20 major U.S. cities, homicides spiked in the first months of this year


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 16, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Some interesting news to tell you about regarding Mark Zuckerberg's meeting this week with a group of conservatives and charges of political bias at Facebook. I will be there on Wednesday at this meeting. The company reached out to me to take part along with several others including the TheBlaze Glenn Beck and Arthur Brooks, he's the president of the American Enterprise Institute. The meeting was scheduled to address claims by former employees at the social network manipulates its trending news feed as suppressed conservative news from it. In a statement last week, Zuckerberg said that the network found no evidence to support those claims, but would continue to investigate, so that is ongoing. But in the meantime, Eric, they said they would like to have this meeting, so we are going head out there on Wednesday. This is -- I go to you first because I think that you are the most active on Facebook and especially in terms of news engagement with viewers and your fans. This has not been the news feed that people see, this is news trend which basic added later, and they're trying to deal with that portion of it because it possibly it wasn't as objective as an algorithm would be if you add human thought into it.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So first of all, congratulations, that's an honor. That's a fantastic honor to be -- to be brought to that meeting. I think Facebook needs to get in front of this, and here is why. You are very active on both Facebook and Twitter, "Cashin' In" on the Saturday morning show, like very active during the show. And on Twitter, the #CashinIn trends every single Saturday morning. It doesn't trend a long time, but it trends nationally every, so far, every Saturday in 2016. Also on Twitter, they had a political hashtag top 10 for 2015, in wake up America which is a brand I put in there very, very right wing, was number six at the top 10 in all, in the whole country in 2015. The reason I pointing this out, we have never trended on Facebook once --

PERINO: On Facebook?

BOLLING: Not once. And I'm equally as engaged on Facebook as I am on Twitter, so that would indicate that there's a difference. Either they are use using a different algorithm which could be an explanation or there's more human input into their, into whoever -- into how they are dictating the trending topics.

PERINO: Which is probably something accumulated relatively easy to fix, I mean I'm not, I don't know their business. I guess I'm going to learn more about it, but if the problem is that they need -- that they have concerned of bias by people who have been hired, then to me that is maybe handled by a management solution rather than a big hoopla.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, management or personnel decision or -- and perhaps they move to a model that is a little bit more neutral and it doesn't have bias embedded in it like Twitter does, because you see the two, the differences like Eric points out between what happens on his show on one social media platform versus the other. So it's an interesting contrast between the two, and now with the emerging of the story coming forward, I mean there's great questions obviously, that you can ask them. And then it's really going to be about the results afterward in terms of do we see then a difference because there's been a spotlight put on their social media platform.

PERINO: I find it -- my interaction on Facebook and Twitter is very different. On Twitter it's a lot of news and political stuff. But if I tend to post things that are about politics or like when I promote the Stirewalt/Perino Podcast on Facebook versus Twitter, the engagement was totally different. Like on Facebook, nobody cares about anything but my dog.


PERINO: How do you feel about my dog?

GUTFELD: I don't know.


GUTFELD: I don't --

PERINO: Any advice for me for the meeting?

GUTFELD: I don't know why you are so surprised by Facebook, you know, (inaudible) away from conservative issues -- Al Gore rhythm?


GUTFELD: Think about it people. Think about it. I only go on Facebook for one reason.

GUILFOYLE: Make sense.

GUTFELD: It does make sense, Kimberly. I've been thinking about this. I only go on Facebook to see how homely my high school classmates have become, and then I go and like their adult children.



GUTFELD: It's just to creeps them out a little bit. I have the bigger concern. When you go there, I don't care about this issue as much as I care about artificial intelligence.


GUTFELD: So when you go in there and you're sitting in this meeting and they offer you a brand cupcake or whatever they serve at these stupid places, ask them what happens when Facebook develops its own hive mind.

GUILFOYLE: What does mean?

GUTFELD: That it reaches singularity. What it mean -- when it becomes smarter than actual people and when their IQ, to collect by used of assets human intelligence, we are in trouble. Have you thought about that, when we are enslaved by Facebook?

GUILFOYLE: Maybe you can FaceTime Greg, and this little robot friends into this meeting.

GUTFELD: It is going to happen, Kimberly. You can laugh at me now, but it's all going to happen.


BOLLING: Can I jump in with just a touch of advice? I know we have to get Juan in here, but maybe just ask Zuckerberg, why not just go to a purely numeric algorithm for trending. Just take the human element out -- sorry Greg.


BOLLING: Take the human element out of it .

GUTFELD: You crazy.

BOLLING: And just go with -- however you want to do it, whether there's acceleration, where high acceleration puts in it .


GUILFOYLE: . a trending topic over a course of time. Whatever you want to do, but keep it more numeric than ideological.

PERINO: That's what I'm saying. I think there might be an easier fix, either management one or technological one, possibly. Liberals don't necessarily have this kind of problem, Juan?


PERINO: What do you think they would say if the shoe was on the other foot?

WILLIAMS: Oh I think it would be a different conversation, but a similar one in the sense that people are very sensitive in this age when they feel like their point of view is not being recognized. And conservatives have had a much larger complaint about mainstream, lamestream (ph) media than liberals have. But in the case of Facebook, Facebook has now become so big that it is mentioned to me, they determine and, you know, what you hear from, hear from Eric is really true. If they're setting who gets the click and whose website is hot, and there was a study of by a few I just saw in the research that indicated they are the number one source that sends people to mobile articles. In other words, if you are on your mobile device and you look, you find something to read, you go to Facebook. Facebook is pointing out what is interesting, hot, trending, et cetera. I think, by the way, Facebook is very different than Twitter, in my experience. Twitter tends to be more .


WILLIAMS: . of the moment and hot, hot, hot. Facebook, people tend to be there for a while and they're searching around.

PERINO: But --

WILLIAMS: And one last thing I say on this point is I think that when you look at something like the algorithm versus the human input, I think it's all human input. I think that, you know --

BOLLING: You think Twitter is using the human input too?

WILLIAMS: No, no. I think Twitter is much less. But I think that all of it has to have some human input and for us very clear reason to my mind. It's useless if you just stick with the numerical numbers, because then people will put, people will juice it. They will find a way just to pile on their perspective --


PERINO: It's like #JustinBieber, it's always like the entire --

WILLIAMS: Yeah. It was just, yeah --

GUTFELD: The one difference though that we haven't talked about is anonymity. When you're on Facebook, generally, your -- it's your name.


GUTFELD: That makes you closer to your character, as a person, I believe. When you go on Twitter and you're dealing with people who have fake names, they can do anything and be anything that they want. That's the difference.

PERINO: Here's another thing that you mentioned last week, but I got a couple more numbers. I thought it was worth bringing up again. So, on the news feed side of things, Fox News in 2015, so it was just last year, was the number one brand on Facebook, and that was not an objective number. That was purely subjective just based on the numbers and the -- in terms of the engagement we have with the audience, the shareable content. We get 100 to 200 million unique users a month because of our work on Facebook. Guess who the number two brand is, anybody? It's not a competitor of ours. It's the WWE.

GUTFELD: Of course.

PERINO: I mean that's, I feel like we are doing pretty good.



GUTFELD: We share a number of things in common.


PERINO: The other thing --

GUTFELD: A little showmanship.

PERINO: There's one other .

GUILFOYLE: Yes, actually.

PERINO: . controversy surrounding this.

GUTFELD: Attraction, attracted people.


PERINO: I'm going to make my point. So last week, when this was a really big news story, there was a suggestion by some that the government gets involved, and I'm not for that. I don't think that the government needs to regulate this private company. Any other thoughts?

BOLLING: Stay out.

GUTFELD: Yeah, absolutely. That's crazy.

BOLLING: Stay out.

GUTFELD: That's crazy.

PERINO: All right --

GUILFOYLE: That will only make it worse, let's be honest.

PERINO: We have another one story to get into this A-block, are you ready to make a pivot?


PERINO: OK, come with me.


PERINO: Last week, "Washington Post" Associate Editor Bob Woodward made headlines when he said the paper assigned a team of 20 to look into Donald Trump's past. On Fox News Sunday he said, "The equivalent effort will be made on Hillary Clinton." Listen.


CHRIS WALLACE, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY" HOST: You got 20 people on her.

BOB WOODWARD, "THE WASHINGTON POST" ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Yeah. Well, it's not necessarily the number of people as who's working on it. And --

WALLACE: So you got smarter --


WOODWARD: No, no, but, but, you know -- believe me, you know the goal here is the best obtainable version of the truth. You can't find out everything. Lots of work needs to be done.


PERINO: You are having a moment, (inaudible)?

GUTFELD: No, I would defend "Washington Post," because -- you got to ask yourself, who is more interesting? Hillary is like "Love Actually," you see her like 500 times a year, you already know the story. And Donald Trump is "Deadpool," you know, he's as exciting character that comes out of nowhere that says what -- you know, everything on his mind, just release the amazing special effects. And you can't blame "Washington Post" for wanting to sell copies, because Trump's just -- as same way networks are trying to get eyeballs. Who would do that .

GUILFOYLE: Well, the Clinton --

GUTFELD: . by showing Trump.


GUTFELD: And one more thing.

GUILFOYLE: Clinton got boring, Greg. Let's be honest.

GUTFELD: You know -- I believe --

GUILFOYLE: If you actually tell the truth about everything they've been involved in and their private lives .

GUTFELD: You know what I mean, you know, we've heard the story --

GUILFOYLE: . and their girlfriends are.

GUTFELD: We've heard the story so many times, except certain stories.


GUTFELD: But we've heard a lot of the same stuffs - but I agree.

BOLLING: But if, if that's all they doing digging for facts, you know. But it seems like when they pull up the -- I guess it's relevant. The guy, the publicist --

PERINO: John Miller.

GUTFELD: I love John Miller.

BOLLING: John Miller as --


GUTFELD: Still the funniest scandal ever.

BOLLING: Yeah --


GUTFELD: (inaudible) make a good point this weekend, with Hillary's scandals people -- that are injured or died -- Benghazi, but with Trump, his scandal it's just funny. It's just funny.

GUILFOYLE: It's like a SNL skit.

GUTFELD: Yeah. And you rather have the funny one than the harmful on, right?


PERINO: Juan, you used to be at "The Washington Post" --


PERINO: What do you think of the resources that they are dedicating? Do you imagine that they are pretty even over there?

WILLIAMS: No. I don't, you know, I think this even have. I don't know. I think again, this goes back to conservative attention. Oh, somebody is not going to properly hear us or represent us. Hey, it's just what Greg said, nobody knows all about from him. He is not been in the political arena. Hillary Clinton has been here forever and her husband has been impeached. And people have made charges against Hillary Clinton going to back to her first attempt that proposing some health care solution, and people have said this about Hillary, that. I think there have been books written about her during her college years. So, I mean, it's a total apples and orange in comparison that's being forced by people who say, oh they're going to pick on the conservative here. I don't even know that he's a conservative, though.

BOLLING: I just wish they would dig up that video of Hillary Clinton when they are pushing the '94 crime bill, before it was actually passed. She was out in the stump. She was stumping for the crime bill.


BOLLING: And now she's pushed back so hard as a candidate for president against what happened in the past.

GUTFELD: Now that her husband has to come out and defend the bill, but she's now --


PERINO: Yes. But then when you get to our C-block today .


PERINO: . you are going to wonder if they should disavow the crime bill, right.

GUTFELD: That's a pretty good long speech.


PERINO: All right. Next, a tale of two commencement speeches one by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, the other by President Obama. Highlights from both of those when "The Five" returns.


BOLLING: President Obama has had plenty of opportunity to voice his disapproval of Donald Trump and his agenda, but he may have taken some more shot at the presumptive GOP nominee yesterday at a graduation ceremony for students at Rutgers.


BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: The world is more inter-connected than ever before, and it's becoming more connected every day. Building walls won't change that. If you are listening to today's political debate, you might wonder where the strain of anti-intellectualism came from. So class of 2016, let me be as clear as I can be. In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue.


BOLLING: OK now, he never mentioned Donald Trump by name, Juan, but he did start out with, hey, building walls. I guess he put -- he bring Trump in and talks about political discourse. And he says, "Ignorance is not virtue." Is he taking a shot at Trump there?

WILLIAMS: I think that the entire speech, though, spoke to the idea that hey, it's not PC when you simply say here are the facts, here is what's really going on, and instead, people say let's defend the facts. I think he made the point in every area of your life, if you are having an operation you go to a guy who had a lot of experience as a doctor. But in somehow in our public experience, we say, oh, let's go to a guy who has no experience. I don't see how you can be talking about anybody but Trump at this moment.

BOLLING: And should he -- we get around, but should he be taking shots at a commencement speech for young people at Rutgers, about to go out in the real world, should he be taking a political shot at the --

WILLIAMS: I don't know that it was -- I think it has political, I think it has political power, if you are asking me that. But I think that it was an important message to say to these young people, you know what, the age of rationality is where our founding fathers came from and they believe in facts and honest dialogue. He also said you know what; you guys should never turn away Condi Rice. You should have people who disagree on campus; talk to them, use your language, test your critical thinking facility.

BOLLING: What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: That was only the good part.


GUILFOYLE: The part about Condi Rice -- (inaudible). But no, look, he's going to take his chance to take a shot. That was clearly a shot. It wasn't even like veiled or settled. It was very obvious. You know, when you talk about a wall. And then he basically was saying that the -- saying that Donald Trump isn't intellectual, isn't smart, ignorance isn't a virtue. I mean, I don't -- you don't get much like dirtier than that, but he's the president of the United States. I don't think he needs to even go there. It might be his personal opinion. I don't think he needs to even belittle like that to make the points that he wants to make to the students.

BOLLING: President Obama at Rutgers, oh. It's quite a get for Rutgers.

GUTFELD: Yeah. They deal for them, very exciting. Easy applause line, you go and to do a speech like that and you insult Trump. That's like a lead singer yelling, "Hello, Cleveland, is anybody from Cleveland?" When he's, you know, Cleveland, at that city. He knows he is going to get a response. This helps Trump. Anytime Obama says something bad about trump, that's like saying the Norwegian black metal is satanic. It's just heightens the appeal. But I would, I would be OK with Obama saying this, if he was against all forms of ignorance, but he's OK with non-thinking when it's about climate change. I get any politics, terror .


GUTFELD: . economics .


GUTFELD: . guns. And ask yourself, what kind of man, you know, can call out a candidate, obviously, but not Islamic terrorist.


BOLLING: Interesting.

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.

BOLLING: Dana, there are a couple studies, I think the "Washington Examiner" wrote up one, also Young America's Foundation, we found that in the top 100 schools by U.S. and news and world report universities. The top 10 commencement speakers were all liberal. The top 50, nine out of every ten were liberal -- 50, maybe six out of it to one. It's six out of ten or nine of every ten were liberal. Liberal commencement speakers are prevailing in American university.

PERINO: Well, in American universities are mostly liberal. And I think you are starting to see that especially in the work force, OK? And one of the things that we are going to talk about on Wednesday is about young people and their political bias as they come forward. I appreciate the message that he said, "You should talk to people you disagree with." But that would have been interesting a few years ago from --


PERINO: When they are working on all sorts of different problems like the stimulus package or ObamaCare. Remember, he didn't meet with John Boehner and McConnell for like a long time. It was like something like a record number of months. So, I'm not just a fan of political speeches for commencement addresses. I feel like those should be for the students, but I do also know it's where you get to make news. The one thing they did I thought that was really smart is, I think there was a contest. The reason he went to Rutgers is they had a sort of contest, which is, if you want President Obama to come speak at your university, you got to tell us why. And one of the things they did is they have the grandmother of the university president sent a letter, as well to President Obama, and he said that persuade him.

BOLLING: There you go.


GUTFELD: One quick thing about the Obama thing, he did go after safe spaces and the fact that students don't like to hear from opposing voices. He has to understand that what created that climate is the very progressivism that he champions. The left created --


GUTFELD: The left created identity politics. He should have admitted that.

BOLLING: All right. And in Michigan, graduates that hails their college were luckily weren't subjected to the political tirade. Instead, they got this sound advice from Supreme Justice Clarence Thomas.


CLARENCE THOMAS, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: Do not hide your faith and your beliefs under a bushel basket, especially in this world that seems to have gone mad with political correctness. And your efforts to live them will help to form the fabric of a civil society and a free and prosperous nation where inherent equality and liberty are invaluable.


BOLLING: There's a powerful speech.

PERINO: Yes. And so, if your faith guides you and then you talk about that in public, it can be a little scary, because you realize it might not be a popular thing to say, necessarily. But then once you have said it and you get out in the world, you hear people say like thank you for living your faith. And I remember President Bush when he used to say -- he used to talk about his faith a lot, and I was the deputy press secretary for a long time, and I remember this one reporter from a major network, he used to just lose his mind behind the scenes when ever President Bush talked about his faith. It was just made him so mad. And he thought it was the wrong thing to do, but I actually thought it was a brave thing to do, and courageous, and a smart thing to do if that's how you live your life.

BOLLING: And I do. And I -- it's, believe me, I talk about it all the time here. And it's, you know, it's not easy at times to do that, put it form --

GUTFELD: That's actually I feel, I have no faith.


GUTFELD: It's like --

BOLLING: Faith no more.

GUTFELD: Faith no more.

PERINO: And anybody talks about that too.

GUTFELD: There you go, one of my favorite bands of all time. I think it's important that people do not hide their religious beliefs. I think it's integral, but at the same time, will you advance the same comfort somebody who doesn't have faith?

PERINO: Who doesn't have faith, right?

WILLIAMS: Well, here is the thing. I mean, first of all, I live my faith. In fact, I remember once during an interview with President Bush, in which I said, you know, help us to understand, because people pray for you for your success as leader of the nation. And I got in trouble back in NPR when they said, why are you saying that everybody prays for President Bush? And I said, well, in my church, we pray for the president of United States .

GUTFELD: World leader.

WILLIAMS: . every Sunday.

GUILFOYLE: That's also they do in church.

WILLIAMS: So, you know -- so, but you know, this to me that's, I think that's beyond politics. But I will say this, I'm so curious that around this table, Gregory, everybody is saying, oh, that first speech was so political and the second speech wasn't. I think they were both political speeches.

BOLLING: I don't know, Juan.


WILLIAMS: I'll tell you exactly the second one said do not talk about grievance. Instead, focus on your life, your faith, your patriotism .


WILLIAMS: . and your constitution.

BOLLING: But the politics even the first speech .

WILLIAMS: Oh, please.

BOLLING: . when he didn't name Trump, which you admit yourself .

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah --

BOLLING: . that he was talking about Trump.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's fine. You can talk about --

PERINO: He called him ignorant.

WILLIAMS: What? What was that?

PERINO: He called him ignorant.



WILLIAMS: He didn't call him ignorant. He said ignorance is not a virtue.


WILLIAMS: And it's not. And by the way, I can't believe that you said the left is responsible for identity politics in America?

GUTFELD: Yeah, no way. You can't believe that?

WILLIAMS: No. It's unbelievable to me, because, gee, I think identity politics came from people who collected slavery and segregation. I mean that's pretty --

BOLLING: All right. Let me get Kimberly in here.

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying over here.

BOLLING: Me, too.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. So, I think what was very interesting about Clarence Thomas, first of all, he's a man of few words, right? So he was able to get up here and speak and people wants to hear what he had to say. I like his emphasis on faith and belief, because in my personal opinion, the past eight years, we have seen under the Obama administration, they have used class warfare, and race and envy to divide the nation. They have in communities, when you see Ferguson and other places .

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see, but Obama did --

GUILFOYLE: . and they champion back. I didn't say that, Juan. You are really becoming infamous .


GUILFOYLE: . and also ridiculous because you --

WILLIAMS: Yes, that was ridiculous, infamous.

GUILFOYLE: You put words in people's mouth and you paraphrase.

WILLIAMS: You said President Obama --

GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that. I said the administration, and it's true.


GUILFOYLE: Under Eric Holder and the unjustice (ph) department, this is part and parcel for what happened across this country. We did not come closer together as a country, we became more divided, and there was more loss of life and destruction of property from that race and identity politics.

WILLIAMS: Because people speak out against injustice. You don't like it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, there's one --

WILLIAMS: It makes you uncomfortable.

GUILFOYLE: No, it doesn't make me uncomfortable.

WILLIAMS: You have to deal with the reality.

GUILFOYLE: Nope. I do with deal with the reality. The bottom line is they fostered an environment that was violence and that was not something that brought people together. Instead of using the opportunity as president to bring people together and blur race and gender lines to get more about divisiveness.

WILLIAMS: Oh I see, you want to blur race and gender when it makes you uncomfortable, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not uncomfortable by it at all.

WILLIAMS: And it's like for people in this country will have to live --

GUILFOYLE: I'm not uncomfortable by it at all. Why would I be uncomfortable with that as a Puerto Rico woman?

GUTFELD: Blur race and gender is with alcohol.


GUTFELD: Everybody just go out and get drunk.

BOLLING: Thank you.


BOLLING: That was a perfect way to get into this tease right here. Ahead, it's a story won't hear here on other news outlet today, murders are on the rise in more than two dozen U.S. cities, wait until you hear what the FBI Director James Comey thinks is to blame. Greg's take on that, coming up next.


GUTFELD: In over 20 major U.S. cities, homicides spiked in the first months of this year, causing the media to search for explanations while denying their own role in this body count. So far they blame heroin, gangs and economic factors. But one person isn't fleeing from the truth. FBI Director James Comey believes scrutiny aimed at police has changed the way it deals with citizens, creating a reticence that has increased homicides -- mainly among minorities. Odd that the media says minorities are often victims of the police, yet more die when the cops back off.

So is this a coincidence? When you prevent the police from doing their jobs, murders go up? No, that's a scientific method, a consequence of an experiment. The experiment: hold back; the consequence: death.

Now, liberals will bend over backwards to say they are troubled by this, but they will resist any common-sense answers. More petty crime, assaults and robberies occur when perps know the police aren't respected and crime becomes more tolerated. Witness the wild jump in shoplifting in California since a bill reduced penalties. Looting is now shopping.

Fact is, reality implicates those scrambling for excuses: politicians, activists and media who undermine the men and women in blue. As gangs, occupied by immigrant and out-of-work young men, savage cities from Long Beach to Chicago, you might wonder: Where are the police? They're looking out for themselves. Someone has to.

The numbers, Kimberly, are insane. Do you know that Long Beach has 125 percent increase. Arlington, Texas, 100 percent; El Paso, 100 percent; Mesa, 100 percent; Las Vegas, 81 percent. This is the first quarter of this year; it could change. Did anything happen -- does anything strike you, similarities?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think it's -- this is really problematic. I mean, obviously, you know, gun violence, gang cases. I worked in Long Beach, and they had a tremendous problem with guns on the streets and gang violence. That was one of the cities that the L.A. D.A.'s office was in charge of.

But I'll tell you what, when you see places like New York, when they are putting forward policies, legal policies and saying that they need to be banned here, it's not making the public or the citizens here more safe. It's actually making it unsafe for them, because they're not able to take the guns off the streets, OK, and they're making it too PC. The police are then, like, afraid to even do their jobs. They don't want to get sued. They don't want to get bad mouthed on TV.

I mean, cops get killed in the line of duty. Does the president call them? Does he call their families? No, but he'll go ahead and say, "Oh, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin." This is part of a culture that's going on right now that is really, really dangerous for public safety.

GUTFELD: Juan, should I go to you now or show a clip from Sheriff Clarke?


GUTFELD: Yes. Sheriff Clarke has this to say.


SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Cobs are not afraid to do their job. What they are afraid of, I've got a different effect. It's called the cop-hating United States Department of Justice, led by a race-obsessed attorney general.

The president of the United States has been leading the chorus, slandering and maligning the character and the integrity of the service and the sacrifice for our nation's law enforcement officers.

What officers fear is some witch hunt, this ongoing witch hunt by the Civil Rights Division, taking over law enforcement agencies all across the nation.


GUTFELD: Now Juan, I know you disagree with most of it, but there is some truth to what he is saying, right? That cops feel there's a witch hunt.

WILLIAMS: I don't know this. But I mean, I'll trust him. I trust him. I find he says very provocative things, but I don't know that it I've found him to be inaccurate.

But I will say this, that I don't see that there's any evidence to support your monologue. Because I just read in the research that it says that there's been a decline.

GUTFELD: In New York.

WILLIAMS: New York and other cities.

GUTFELD: But all these other -- there are at least 20 plus cities. I don't know how many top cities.

WILLIAMS: So we've seen a spike in some cities. But it's not -- but if this phenomenon was, in fact...


WILLIAMS: ... proven, it would be every city. Because every city, from New York to Ferguson, has been touched by this business about the videoing.

GUTFELD: New York has -- has a more, in my mind, sophisticated police department that is well-integrated and reflects the nature of the population a lot. Maybe that's the issue.

WILLIAMS: That's an interesting point. I think New York City's police department is very integrated. But I think New York City has had the whole argument about stop and frisk, about Eric Garner being choked out in Staten Island. All that's here. But you've seen a decline.

So I think something else is at work.

Now, the arguments have to do with things like heroin. And we know there's more heroin around. It also has to do with drug trafficking. In the break you and I were talking about look at where these cities are.


WILLIAMS: They're right on the Mexican border, for the most part. So I think there are other ways to look at it.

But what's curious to me is that the FBI director, Jim Comey, who is just a man, I think, great integrity, says he thinks it is the fact that cops are being videotaped.

But you even heard there, Sheriff Clarke say cops are doing their jobs. It's not asking you to do anything different. If you're videotaped, go right ahead. Videotape. Do your job.

GUTFELD: Eric, thoughts?

BOLLING: Yes. You know, right after Garner and right after the stop and frisk issue came up in New York, we all said that the incidents of crime was going to go up and, for the most part, it did.

But the show of 25 percent decrease in the numbers the way some of these other cities, I'm of the mind -- I love Sheriff Clarke. I think he's so passionate. He believes in cops. I do, too. There's no one in the world who loves law enforcement than I do.


BOLLING: I don't think -- I don't think it's fair to say that a cop is not going to do his job because of a videotape. I think a cop is on the job, he's going to stop the crime whether or not he's going to be videotaped or not.

I just think this -- and again, I'm going to agree with this. I think the opiates is a massive problem. There's more and more opiates -- opiates and heroin coming from Mexico. It's an epidemic, and it's starting all along the border cities. It's going to work its way up. I think that's to blame.

And again, I honestly think it's going to help everyone out, from the perp, from to the victims to the cops to the community. Get every cop fitted with a body cam. Get every cop fitted with a body cam and you can solve all these problems. Again, I'm not...

I agree, James Comey is amazing. I just don't agree with this.

WILLIAMS: I don't agree with it, either, because if someone is beating me in the head and someone tapes it, I think that's stop, cop. Don't do that.

GUTFELD: OK. Well, Dana, I have -- another interesting element to this is Obama's focus. While we're seeing the violence go up in these cities, President Obama seems overly concerned with what's going on in bathrooms.

PERINO: The transgender issue?

GUTFELD: Yes, I mean, it's like there are people dying, and he -- he goes for the PC -- the thing that gets the most press.

PERINO: I would say there's a real opportunity here for either of the candidates in the presidential election. And also, if you're one of the down-ballot candidates in any of those states, which is how are you going to help to try to turn this around? And that's why I mentioned the Crime Bill earlier.

One of the reasons that the Crime Bill was passed in 1994 was to deal with crime states that were higher than that, but they were on the rise. And it worked. Now they want to reverse it back.

I would say, if you are Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, you start getting your ducks in a row, and you figure out what you can say to convince communities that you would be somebody that would either try to help stop this or get the resources to the cops that they need.

GUTFELD: All right. Donald Trump's hitting back at The New York Times for its expose on his past treatment of women. One of his former girlfriends featured in the piece is also speaking out. But you haven't seen her, yet. You'll hear from her, next.


GUILFOYLE: Is the media engaged in a witch hunt against Donald Trump? Well, that's what the presumptive GOP nominee alleges after a string of negative stories in the press over the last few days, including a New York Times expose on his past behavior towards women. The piece features accounts from more than a dozen women who are former employees, girlfriends or associates of Trump.

This includes Rowanne Brewer Lane, former model and girlfriend of the candidate. This morning on "FOX and Friends," not only did she defend Trump. She accused the paper of getting her story wrong.


ROWANNE BREWER LANE, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF DONALD TRUMP: It was very upsetting. I was not happy to read it at all.

They told me several times and my manager several times that it would not be a hit piece and that my story would come across the way that I was telling it and honestly. And it absolutely was not.

They did take quotes from what I said, and they put a negative connotation and spun it to where it appeared negative. I did not have a negative experience with Donald Trump.

I don't know how many other girls feel like they were misquoted, but I know that for a fact I was. And I don't -- I don't want that out there. That's not it -- that's not how it was. That's not how it felt.


GUILFOYLE: So, that was big news this morning. It was an interview with Ainsley Earhardt on "FOX and Friends." And the authors of the article are standing by their column.


MICHAEL BARBARO, REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I interviewed Rowanne Brewer Lane. I'm going to let her speak for herself. But I think readers of the story can digest what happened to her at Mar-a-Lago in 1990.

I think people can evaluate the story kind of on its own merits.

MEGYN TWOHEY, REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: We gathered a variety of voices and, you know, our story is not just Rowanne's account of her experience with him, you know, in the 1990s. It's the experience of many women going back over the years.


GUILFOYLE: Trump took to Twitter to voice his outrage, saying "The New York Times is so dishonest. Their hit piece cover story on me yesterday was just blown up by Rowanne Brewer, who said it was a lie."

Greg, I see the intense eye contact.

GUTFELD: I read this article, and the list of disgusting behavior by Trump is unbelievable. Did you know that he offered a woman a bikini, and then they later dated? It gets worse.

GUILFOYLE: Awful stuff.

GUTFELD: He made comments regarding a beauty pageant, I mean, about beauty at a beauty pageant. That's like -- that's like making comments about muscles at a body building contest. My God.

Then he calls women "dear." I mean, this is absolutely outrageous. I mean, what a rigorous take-down The New York times did. It reminded me of the one they didn't do in 2007 about a candidate who actually had a fund- raiser with a terrorist. I ask everybody to do the Bill Ayers test and look at whatever is in that article. Does anything in that article come to even close, even close to meeting with Bill Ayers, a terrorist who tried to kill Americans?

GUILFOYLE: No, it doesn't, dear.

GUTFELD: Sorry, I lost my mind. But this is crazy.

BOLLING: Does anything in that article come even close to what Bill Clinton did? I mean, now we know about this Lolita flight, right? FOX News piece that was out a couple of days ago said that Bill Clinton was on this flight.

Jeffrey Epstein is a known pedophile. Right? He's been -- it's been proven. He would fly people around the country. There would be a bed on these airplanes. And there would be group sex going on.

GUILFOYLE: Mile-high club.

BOLLING: Bill Clinton took 26 flights on this airplane, sometimes ditching his Secret Service to go on this flight.

Now, if the New York -- look, The New York Times is going to do what they're going to do. But if the Clintons want to use this war on women thing with Donald Trump, they'd better be careful. Because there is so much...

GUILFOYLE: Material.

BOLLING: ... material that Trump can use against Bill Clinton. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I think you're going to hear more about these flights, too, by the way.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. All right. So Dana, what do you make of this? The back and forth.

PERINO: Back and forth. I'd like to say one thing that is different now for Donald Trump than it was for previous presidents, and it's to his advantage or to candidates.

Remember when I think it was Newsweek that ran the photo of George H.W. Bush during his reelection and called him a wimp, "The Wimp Factor." And that really packed a punch. There was no way to really push back immediately. There was no way to have people on social media, Twitter or Facebook, whatever else to try to push back to get somebody out on cable television to do that.

So I think Donald Trump uses that effectively.

The other thing, I think, that he has said is somewhat, I think, defensible, is that he talked about past degradation of women in this way: "I never anticipated running for public office or being a politician, so I'd have fun on the radio." And he basically talks about being entertaining, and it wasn't necessarily meant to be degrading.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So do you think ultimately, this is going to hurt the presumptive GOP nominee?

WILLIAMS: No, in fact, I thought the New York Times piece fell flat for just the reasons you've heard before. I just didn't think it was compelling; "Oh, this is egregious behavior."

I think the real issue here is one, Trump is still at about 70 percent disapproval with American women, including, I think, 50 percent with Republican, non-college-educated white women, which is his base.

But the second thing to say is he's got a problem with the evangelicals, the social conservatives, three divorces, you know, the serial philander, I think, is what Cruz said about him. In addition to saying, you know, "Planned Parenthood, I could support."

I think a lot of social conservatives have some trouble with those issues. So that's the issue. And I think that's why you're going to continue to see this issue of Trump's sexual attitudes and behaviors. Somebody said his New York values. This was Jeffers -- Tim Hokescamp (ph) of the Republican from Kansas. He just said Trump is a crass guy.

GUILFOYLE: He's no Dennis Hastert.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Don't forget, we have Megyn Kelly's big sit-down with Donald Trump tomorrow night, and she's also going to join us here on "The Five."

Next, it's an event-clearing brawl everyone is talking about today. A massive fight between the MLB's Texas Rangers and Toronto Blue Jays. What set it all off when "The Five" returns.


WILLIAMS: The Blue Jays and Rangers faced off for the final time of the regular season yesterday, and all hell broke loose at the top of the eighth.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bautista got the worse of that.


WILLIAMS: Toronto outfielder Jose Bautista slid hard into second, right into Texas second baseman Rougned Odor, who was not happy and, as you saw, delivered a right hook to Bautista's jaw.

Players from both teams rushed the field. Odor and Bautista, ejected. Tensions likely boiled over from the feud last season, when Bautista performed an infamous bat flip.

The MLB is expected to hand out several fines and a few suspensions for yesterday's melee.

Well, let me ask the old ball player. What do you think?

BOLLING: Boys being boys. I love this.

WILLIAMS: You love it?

BOLLING: It was a hard slide into second. You're supposed to do that. That's what you're supposed to do.

WILLIAMS: By the way, that's an illegal slide now.

BOLLING: That was not an illegal slide. Get out of here, Juan. You think the second baseman...

WILLIAMS: They changed the rule. They changed the rule.

BOLLING: I have three cleat marks in my leg from a slide like that.

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying they changed the rule.

BOLLING: But you're right. That was a payback for the playoff game.

I blame Obama for all this. You know why?

WILLIAMS: Why's that?



BOLLING: Canadians coming down and fighting Texans? I'm with the Texans.

WILLIAMS: What do you say? You're a lawyer. Is that justice?

GUILFOYLE: And a ballplayer. I mean, listen. Everybody knows you go in and your slide hard, and you drop the ball and you're safe. It happens all the time. Stealing home, that's the most fun.

But obviously, not sportsman-like conduct, et cetera, et cetera, but everybody has been talking about this and watching it today. And my God, I can't believe that guy is going to be able to stand up after getting clocked like that. He took quite a punch.

WILLIAMS: Dana, you know, the fact is that last season, when you flip the bat like that, you embarrass the other pitcher. And it was -- some bitterness.

PERINO: I'll tell you, I totally would have stayed in the dugout. I wouldn't have gone to the field.

WILLIAMS: Gregory, you're smirking.

GUTFELD: Why can't we just live in peace?

WILLIAMS: In peace?

GUTFELD: Why can't we just live in peace? Why do we even need sports? This is this idea of keeping score and everybody getting angry. Why can't they just meet on the field and just discuss their problem?

WILLIAMS: What about WWE? We could have done that. It's so much more friendly. Sex and violence.

GUILFOYLE: Safe spaces.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.

BOLLING: I was thinking, playoffs...


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- K.G.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, I'd like to honor an extraordinary American who recently passed away. Seventy-year-old Pat Rogers was described by my good friend Bill Spence (ph) as the closest thing to Captain America, Supercop and James Bond combined. He was a war hero in Vietnam and served in the NYPD, receiving one of NYPD's highest honors, the Medal of Valor. He trained and mentored thousands of the members of the armed forces, police department and the private sector throughout the country. He is survived by his loving wife Ellen and his brother Tim. Pat brought people together, and he will be dearly missed.

PERINO: Great man. Thanks for sharing, K.G.

Eric, you're next.

BOLLING: All right. Along those lines, today President Obama stood with law enforcement. It was an amazing scene. Take a look at this.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Public safety officers we recognize today with the Medal of Valor found courage, not in search of recognition. They did it instinctively.

Our nation has a responsibility to support those who serve and protect us and keep our streets safe.


BOLLING: It was a fantastic ceremony. And if you didn't well up during that ceremony, you have no emotion at all. A sight to be seen.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I loved it. Wonderful.


GUTFELD: It's time for something very important.


GRAPHIC: Greg's Fashion News


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Wow.

GUTFELD: You know, in the fashion world, there are some eternal facts that you must remember. One, never make fashion suggestions while you're on camera and don't wear sequins when you're doing the weather.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... into tomorrow. What's going on? You want me to put this on? Why, because it's cold?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're getting a lot of e-mails.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? OK. I look like a librarian now.


GUTFELD: The big problem here is librarians happen to look very attractive, and I think that was meant to be an insult to librarians. And I won't stand for that. Inappropriate all around.

PERINO: I thought she looked fine.

GUTFELD: Everything is inappropriate. Everything is inappropriate.


GUILFOYLE: OK, Zoolander.

PERINO: I have a few pictures from a fun night that I had on Saturday. We got to go to the debut of -- I think it was the second night of somewhere on a beach tour with Dierks Bentley. And my friend Macy English, there she is. She was "One More Thing" worthy. We talked about that all weekend. Got to do all sorts of things backstage. And we also...


PERINO: Come on, Greg. We got to meet this young woman named Cam, Cam Country -- there she is right there. Check her out. She sings "Burning House," "May Day," lots of other great songs, and she was one of the opening acts.

GUILFOYLE: Awesome, like Camden, New Jersey.


GUILFOYLE: Dana had on ripped jeans.

PERINO: I did, I did. Juan, you are next.

WILLIAMS: All right. So on Saturday morning, at the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., my 27-year-old son Raffi was confirmed as a follower of Christ. It was a wonderful moment for the family to see Raffi embrace a life of faith. Here he is coming in. And, you know, he's with other people from our church, Trinity Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C.


WILLIAMS: Behind him, you see Father John Harmon. There's Father Harmon and Father Simmons, who are in our parish. And there you see him with his mom and dad and Father Harmon. And one more. And here he is with the bishop of West Virginia, who performed the confirmation.

It was a wonderful moment. Everybody putting their hands on Raffi's shoulder as he was being confirmed.

PERINO: That gave me goose bumps. Very nice.

BOLLING: You got a bishop to do it.

WILLIAMS: It was pretty cool.

PERINO: Wow. Congratulations to all of you. You always have great pictures on Monday.

Tomorrow night, Megyn Kelly joins us to preview her big one-on-one with Donald Trump. So don't miss it. "Special Report" next.

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