What to expect from Trump-Ryan meeting on Capitol Hill

The debate continues on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 11, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Less than 24 hours away from Donald Trump's highly anticipated sit down with House Speaker Paul Ryan. Last week, the chairman of this summer's Republican Convention said he was not ready to endorse the presumptive nominee. He even offered to step down from that position, but Trump doesn't want him to. He's optimistic their meeting tomorrow will help unite the Republican Party.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, I would like to see unity in the party. I do. I believe we'll have great unity in the party. He's a very good man. He wants what's good for the party. And I think we're going to have very positive results.


TRUMP: And I want frankly for him to stay and be chairman.


PERINO: Ryan addressed reporters this morning and struck a conciliatory tone.


PAUL RYAN, UNITED STATES HOUSE SPEAKER: To pretend reunify without actually unifying, then we go into the fall at half strength. This election is too important to go into an election in half-strength. That means we need a real unification of our party. I want to be part of that unifying process so that we are at full strength this fall, so that we can win this election. We cannot afford to lose this election to Hillary Clinton.


PERINO: Ryan and Trump don't know each other well, but the speaker said he's looking forward to that changing tomorrow.


RYAN: I don't really know him. I met him once in person, in 2012, we had a very good conversation in March on the phone. We just need to get to know each other. And we, as a leadership team, are enjoying the fact that we have a chance to meet with him.


PERINO: Eric, I like that last point a lot from Paul Ryan, because I found that that's true. If you've met somebody and you have a personal relationship. It's a lot easier to communicate, to understand each other, you're not communicating by Twitter or e-mail. So if you are the either one of them tomorrow, what would your goals for that meeting be?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Well, I'm -- interesting, that very difficult question. I think that they're going to come out. I think this is going to all work out. I just have a hunch, it just feels like both of them had to put up, this is where I am. Paul Ryan had to say, I have a constituency that I'm representing. This is -- I can't sign on to Donald Trump right now. You know, with all that's going on with Mitt Romney and some of the others, so he was playing that card for a little while. I think he'll come out of the meeting saying look, I want do get behind the GOP front-runner. I want to get behind the guy who is going to be our nominee at the convention. Remember, this is more about the convention than it is going forward. Paul Ryan will, if Donald Trump becomes president, work with the president, clearly he will. But this is about the convention. Paul Ryan right now is going to chair the convention. If he can't get behind the front-runner, the guy who is trying to beat the other side, Hillary will -- can't get behind him, he shouldn't be chair of the convention. Step down. Donald Trump should say, step down, and he should. If he can't get behind him -- Reince Priebus says he should step down. I would agree, step down. By the way, it shouldn't be that hard to get behind Donald Trump. Donald Trump now has 10.9 million votes, breaking the prior record, George W. Bush had for the most votes ever in a primary and there are seven states left to go. It's time to get everyone behind the front-runner.

PERINO: So, Juan, we talked a little bit last night at midnight, in case you weren't watching. You better show up next Tuesday, about policy differences. But I have question about -- let's say that they can't get to an agreement on some certain policies, perhaps one of the things they could agree on is that maybe Donald Trump says, "I know that there are some members that needs some fund-raising help. I will commit to doing ex numbers of fund-raisers before the first of June -- or first of July." And maybe he'll make a commitment like, OK. And I understand that there might be some members who think to lose their seat. If they back me, fine. I'll leave them alone. I won't attack them. I mean, that's something at least that could be discussed in a meeting like this.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So you are advising him, because that's a good advice, I think.

PERINO: Yes, that's why my --


PERINO: Because they don't listen to me, otherwise. But I think --

WILLIAMS: But I will say --

PERINO: I think that that is smart.


PERINO: I mean he say like --


PERINO: If you can get to me on policy, is there something that you can get to me that will actually.

WILLIAMS: Well, because --

PERINO: . help people behind me.

WILLIAMS: But the policy, the policy is so large a hurdle...

PERINO: I agree.

WILLIAMS: . because a real big policy difference between Donald Trump and the republican establishment. But what they have on the table is this; Donald Trump has some needs, too, Dana. He needs the party structure, because remember, he's just starting to get going on things like putting a staff in the battleground states. He's just getting going on fund-raising. He's just getting going on identifying voters and, you know, the RNC has computer lists of where republican voters are and who you need to reach if you want to win. So he wants all those things. But going into this, the word in Washington is that Paul Ryan will not come out and say, "I endorse Donald Trump on Thursday." Instead, he'll say, "I'm working on it. We're talking. We're moving in the right direction." But there is no sense that - -

PERINO: But so you think that's wise, Kimberly?


PERINO: Like, that approach?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I mean, look. I think tomorrow is actually going to go very well. We've already seen some like little telegraphing messages, by way, of carrier pigeon delivered. And I think what's going to happen is he's going to be able to get behind this. It's not gonna be a big dramatic announcement, but there's going to be a meeting of the minds and understanding that going forward, the goal should be to defeat Hillary Clinton. It should be, never Hillary, not never Trump. And make sure that she doesn't take the White House. That should be the bottom line. That's the big unifying thing you should say. And basically, Hillary is helping, you know Trump, because she's that unpopular of a candidate. Just look at the measure of success of Bernie Sanders against her, and it just goes to show you there's a lot of opportunity there to do some damage to her candidacy and say well, maybe I'm not all in on, you know, 10 out of 10 things that Trump's for, but I don't want -- I do know that I don't want that person in the White House.

PERINO: Do you know that there's -- that the Ryan/Trump meeting has gotten all the attention. There are other meetings happening tomorrow, including with Senator Mitch McConnell, who makes a similar point about a third Obama term being what everyone needs to work against. Let's listen to Senator McConnell.


MITCH MCCONNELL, KENTUCKY SENATOR: I think most of our members believe that he's won the nomination, the old fashioned way. He got more votes than anybody else and we respect the voices of the republican primary voters across the country. And we'll sit down and talk about the way forward. We know that Hillary Clinton will be four more years of Barack Obama. I think that's going to in the end be enough to unify republicans across the country.


PERINO: So Tom, do you think he's right?

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, first, that wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement there, but he should something --

PERINO: But Mitch McConnell does that -- on his happiest days.


PERINO: It's how Mitch McConnell sounds. He's got one tone.

SHILLUE: Little soften (ph).

GUILFOYLE: That's him, all in.

SHILLUE: He should --


SHILLUE: Well, he mentioned Obama --


SHILLUE: He should stop saying Obama, because Obama is a lot more popular than Hillary Clinton. Say Hillary Clinton, but don't say Obama. I mean, that's number one.

PERINO: Are you now giving advice?

SHILLUE: I'm giving advice, yes. But Juan, you mentioned that they're far apart on policy; Paul Ryan and Trump, and that's true. That's why the key word is principles, I saw Paul Ryan say it several times. He said we're going to unite various wings of the party around common principles. And then he mentioned again, principles, because he knows. He's never going to see eye to eye on policy, so he's going to keep using the word "principles" that shows me that Paul Ryan is ready to deal. He said principles not policy.

BOLLING: I'll tell you why.

GUILFOYLE: Or hypnotize people.

BOLLING: I'll tell you why he's far further. He's further away on policy that -- with Hillary Clinton than he is with Donald Trump -- Paul Ryan. And he should --

PERINO: That's true.

BOLLING: Come on, he's the speaker of the House.


BOLLING: You're down to two choices. You're down to Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. You're not getting a third choice Paul, get behind the guy who is not Hillary Clinton, anyone but Clinton -- ABC, anyone but Clinton. You don't want two or three or four Supreme Court justices going far left liberal and then you -- it's gonna make his life and everyone that's trying to re-elected life miserable.

GUILFOYLE: Someone else has to step up to chair and I'm sure. I mean, he's gonna do it. Let's be honest. And Trump said, "I want him. I'd like him to be the chairman." But otherwise, one -- see if Rubio is interested --

WILLIAMS: You know you guys are willing to throw Paul Ryan over the top --

GUILFOYLE: No. I love Paul Ryan.

WILLIAMS: I'm curious, because, in fact, what I hear is that the freedom caucus in Washington is putting pressure on him to get in line. Get behind Donald Trump.

BOLLING: He should.

WILLIAMS: But the caucus -- I don't know about this, because I tell you what, he is looking down the road. He wants not only to keep his members in the majority in the House of Representatives. He's got to look about what this party represents going forward.

BOLLING: Juan, Juan --

WILLIAMS: He's -- remember he is --

BOLLING: We've all been to conventions, right?


BOLLING: We've all -- the convention is the coming-out party of your nominee.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

BOLLING: The convention is presenting your nominee to America and say, vote for our person, this guy or girl, and not the other one. And if Paul Ryan is not even onboard with the Trump train .

PERINO: But --

BOLLING: . then replace him.

PERINO: Can I add? --

BOLLING: Get someone in there who is.

PERINO: Can I say something too? I actually think that that's not traditionally what the convention was. It wasn't just about the person, it was about the policy, and that's your point. Paul Ryan, the speaker is saying is, "let's try to define where we can, get together on policies so we can try to unify the party." The thing that is kind of strange, though is one of the knocks against Paul Ryan was that, they don't stand on principle enough. Remember for the last two years, like banging them over the head .


PERINO: . with the House establishment republicans don't stand on principle. Now Paul Ryan is saying he is wants to stand on principle, and now he's getting screamed at from the same people. I mean, if you're Paul Ryan, Kimberly, it's sort of like, you can't win. So the only thing that you can do is be true to yourself.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I agree. And by the way, hi, Paul Ryan's mom, she watches the show. He's a very nice guy, he's likable. You want him on your side. He's somebody has a huge future with Republican Party. He's done a great job already as speaker and this is going to be, I think, an important and defining moment to see how this is handled and hopefully he's going to show everybody that we can be civilized, people can move forward on common problems.

PERINO: I don't think just principles.


GUILFOYLE: Well, but you know what, he's the representative. He has -- many ways the face of the party.


PERINO: I don't think Paul Ryan has been uncivil.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, to get other people to be civilized, to come together, to try to find common ground; to say listen, let's talk to you about the party, let's talk to you about principles, about policy going forward where we can find some measure and degree of common ground.


BOLLING: And I'm agreeing with Kimberly. Paul Ryan can stand on principle after president -- after you get a GOP president. Then that's time to stand on principle, push back on the president and say, you know what, I don't agree with everything our president has to say. But you know what? He's our president. I will tell you, will you be way more miserable if Paul Ryan stands on principle. Donald Trump loses to Hillary Clinton, because the republicans are divided. And then you have to fight to become the president.

WILLIAMS: You give Paul Ryan no option.


WILLIAMS: But you're saying is Paul Ryan.


WILLIAMS: . you better get on board or I'm going to absolutely .


WILLIAMS: . stab you, buddy.

BOLLING: No, no. Replace you for the convention. That's how --

GUILFOYLE: Dramatic --

WILLIAMS: Oh. Even Trump --

GUILFOYLE: Dramatic paraphrasing here, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Even Trump says he doesn't want him out of the convention.

BOLLING: Of course he doesn't want him, unless he does --


WILLIAMS: But you are harder than Trump on this issue.

BOLLING: Listen, I think there are a lot of people out there before Donald Trump even came along and said, "I love Paul Ryan, but I really want, I want him supporting the nominee. I want him on board with the nominee."

WILLIAMS: OK, one last point here. Do you think that when Paul Ryan says, "we can't just pretend to come together, we have to genuinely come together," this comes to what Tom was talking about principles, right?


WILLIAMS: Don't you think that matters, that it doesn't look like he's just going along to get along?

BOLLING: For the convention?

WILLIAMS: For anything .

BOLLING: No, no, no.

WILLIAMS: . that he really wants to unify republicans.

BOLLING: But there's a difference Juan, (inaudible) what I said. I said once the convention is over and you have the president --

WILLIAMS: Oh, but you, you are --

BOLLING: Stand on principle.

WILLIAMS: You're just punching me and punching me today. I got to tell you something, Paul Ryan is not going to get walk -- run over by you or me or anybody. Paul Ryan is a real guy. And he has experience, background, has stood the test of time .

BOLLING: I think, I think --

WILLIAMS: . as a real conservative and a real republican.

BOLLING: I think he has already said. He would step down as chairman of the convention.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, God.


WILLIAMS: This not good for Trump or the Republican Party.

PERINO: All right. I'm sorry. We will get you in the next block, Tom.

SHILLUE: Wonderful.

PERINO: Hillary Clinton had another rough night, she lost her 20th race to Bernie Sanders, and even Jon Stewart is having issues with her candidacy. He's going to explain why, next.


BOLLING: Another dismal night for Hillary Clinton, she lost again to Bernie Sanders, this time in West Virginia. Democratic voters aren't ready to crown her just yet. "The New York Post" sums it up on its cover this way -- "Stop the Coronation." RNC Chairman Reince Priebus taking this shot in a tweet, he said, "It's nothing short of embarrassing that Hillary Clinton has been defeated 20 times by a 74-year-old socialist from Vermont." Here was that socialist, Bernie, last night.


BERNIE SANDERS, VERMONT SENATOR: Let me be as clear as I can be. We are in this campaign to win the democratic nomination.


SANDERS: Now we fully acknowledge we are good at arithmetic that we have an uphill climb ahead of us, but we are used to fighting uphill climbs.



BOLLING: Among the reasons why Hillary is struggling, nobody knows exactly what she stands for, not even the left's hero, Jon Stewart.


JON STEWART, FORMER "DAILY SHOW" HOST: When I think about Hillary Clinton is, you know, I imagine to be a very bright woman without the courage of her convictions, because I'm not even sure what they are. That is not to say that she's preferable to Donald Trump, because at this point I would vote for Mr. T. over Donald Trump.


STEWART: But, but she will -- I think she will be in big trouble if she can't find a way. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a real person doesn't exist underneath there. I don't know.


BOLLING: All right, Juan. So she's clearly going to lock down this nomination, any day now.


BOLLING: She only has like 150 delegates .


BOLLING: . needed to go. But the story point -- highlights the fact that, what does she stand for?

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think that what you're seeing here is something that's very real, and we talked about it on this show. There are questions about not just authenticity, Eric, but honesty, trustworthy, all those issues. They're a big issue for Hillary Clinton, something she's going to have to contend with. The good news for Hillary Clinton, she's running against Donald Trump, who has higher unfavorables than she does. But the second thing to say is remember, Hillary Clinton has been through a lot in her political career. She's been around, she's felt beat up. Her husband has been impeached. She is very guarded. And I think that's what comes through as inauthentic, that she's calculating and always giving a second thought. People say what does she really stand for? Or is she just the politician? And in this year, populous politics, it's not good to be the politician.

BOLLING: Bad, flawed candidate?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I mean, obviously, really bad. Because I mean, she can't even put away, you know, a socialist from Vermont who had no job and no paycheck and wrote bad porn, you know, first job as a 40 years of age. How shocking is it. And he's got 19 states so far. But if it weren't for this whole thing being in the bag for her with the super delegates, this would be a completely different story. If they ran their primaries like the republicans do, she would be in real trouble, and she's in trouble because of the enthusiasm for Bernie Sanders. And you have people all of a sudden unafraid, it's like badmouth the Clintons, somebody like Jon Stewart who has a voice and he's popular and he's saying listen, "what does this woman even stand for?"

WILLIAMS: I don't think he was bad.

GUILFOYLE: What does she think?

WILLIAMS: I don't think he was bad-mouthing her.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I think so (inaudible) --

WILLIAMS: I think, no.

GUILFOYLE: . and what she stands for, who she really is --



WILLIAMS: But I think that's a legitimate -- I think that's a legitimate group.

GUILFOYLE: That wasn't like a positive statement about her.

WILLIAMS: No, no. Actually, that don't think he was being political.

GUILFOYLE: You know, upside on that.

WILLIAMS: I think he was being honest.


BOLLING: Do you think, Dana, the --


BOLLING: OK, so we know there's a bifurcation going on, on the right. But apparently was going on just as -- just equally as strong on the left.

PERINO: Yeah. I don't know how if it's equally as strong, because -- but it's big. The divide is real. And I think that she will start winning states where there is more of a minority population, so Kentucky and Oregon next Tuesday.


PERINO: Bernie Sanders probably going to win that. So the way that the calendar works for her was not necessarily in her favor. The super delegates work for her. But beyond that, what I think what Jon Stewart is getting at is that people who actually know her are flummoxed by this. Because they like her, they think she's a lovely person. They know her to be strong. If you actually -- look at Bob Gates, the former secretary of defense, when he writes about Hillary Clinton in his book, it's not glowing necessarily, but he thinks she's solid. So I think that they're frustrated that they think -- well, she might be a great president, she's not a good candidate, and Jon Stewart is probably trying to give her some advice there. I don't know if in Brooklyn, it helps them. I would love - it would just be -- I would love to see Hillary Clinton without any consultants or campaign staff for a week. And let in -- why not just roll the dice and see what happens, because at this point, this problem is going to dogged her. And also because she's keeps walking things back, like the coal country thing, or her war in Iraq vote. This -- if she could have the courage of her convictions as she was saying, and just back it up and be strong about it, she would probably be better off.

BOLLING: What do you say, Tom? As The Post is right -- and first of all, the coronation is happening. There's no stopping it now.

SHILLUE: Yeah, they're like to play after this game.

BOLLING: She's on her way - yeah.

SHILLUE: Yes. She's on her way. First of all, with Jon Stewart, I think that Mr. T.? Is that the most contemporary (inaudible) he could come up with?


SHILLUE: Mr. T? What's -- who's next, (inaudible)? I'd rather vote for.


SHILLUE: Look, the -- I think that Hillary -- yes, she doesn't have the courage of her convictions, but that used to work. She, you know, Bill Clinton, did he have the courage of his convictions? No, but he's denying - -

BOLLING: He did. He did.

SHILLUE: Everybody -- what?

BOLLING: He was a way better candidate than Hillary.


WILLIAMS: No, no, no --



WILLIAMS: Clinton ran to the middle, remember?

BOLLING: Do I know --

SHILLUE: He did whatever it took to get elected.

BOLLING: But you believed him wherever he was. Whether he was far left --

PERINO: That's not courage of your convictions.


BOLLING: Well --

PERINO: That's being a better politician.

BOLLING: Or both, or both, no? I mean, you can't be a good politician unless you have courage and conviction in your character and your ideas and .

SHILLUE: Which I think --

BOLLING: . courage and all of that.

SHILLUE: I don't think -- I think it was about getting elected and that's, that's the school she comes from, but it -- that's not her time. That's not now. That's why Bernie -- I mean, you look like he said, I mean, he wrote - - did he write bad porn, Kimberly? Or was it --

GUILFOYLE: That's what Greg said.

SHILLUE: He wrote porn .


SHILLUE: It wasn't bad porn

GUILFOYLE: Greg told me.


BOLLING: Can I -- want to get this in very quickly. Joe Biden had something very interesting to say about whether he was going to run or not and why. Take a listen.


JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT: I feel confident that Hillary will be the nominee, and I feel confident that she'll be the next president. I had planned on running; it's an awful thing to say. I think I would have been the best president, but it was the right thing not just for my family, for me.


BOLLING: All right, quick around. I'll start with you, Tom.

SHILLUE: Yeah, I mean, he think he is sad. He should have gotten out there. He fell for the same thing that we all fell for we said, Hillary is a great candidate, but she was beaten by Barack Obama that was her only national election. But it wasn't just Barack Obama; it's that people don't like her.

BOLLING: Yeah, there is some other -- he also said it had a lot to do with the timing of the death of Beau Biden this time.

PERINO: Right, the timing of it. I do think this is something that you would say in private, not in public on "Good Morning America." when you have a nominee who is facing an uphill battle in an election. I wouldn't have done it.

BOLLING: You do know, Juan how is going to play out, though?

WILLIAMS: What's it?

BOLLING: Hillary is gonna get indicted, Joe Biden is going to become the nominee. Bernie Sanders is gonna become the VP, and then Donald Trump got his hands full.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, like Joe Biden, and his midnight naked swims.

WILLIAMS: You know, you know --


WILLIAMS: Apparently, Greg --

GUILFOYLE: That's a likeable.

WILLIAMS: Greg likes Sanders' porn, but you have your own fantasies right here, every day.

BOLLING: Wouldn't you? -- OK.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: Here we go.


BOLLING: Would you rather have --


BOLLING: A Biden/Standers ticket or Hillary Clinton who in November --

WILLIAMS: I don't believe the enthusiasm for the socialist among these republicans. What if --


WILLIAMS: It's because you hate Clinton so much.

BOLLING: All right, we got to go.


BOLLING: Coming up, London's new Muslim mayor is not a fan of Donald Trump, and is certainly not hiding it. Hear what both of them had to say about one another, next on "The Five."


GUILFOYLE: Last week, London elected its first Muslim mayor, 45-year-old Sadiq Khan. Donald Trump called his election a good thing, but the mayor wasn't as kind with his words when asked about the presumptive republican nominee.


SADIQ KHAN, LONDON MUSLIM MAYOR: My message to Donald Trump and his team is that, you know, your views of Islam are ignorant. It is possible to be a Muslim and to live in the west. It is possible to be a Muslim and to love America. Now, by giving the impression that Islam and the west are incompatible, you're playing into the hands of the extremists. Of course, I'll travel to America, but I'm hoping that he's not the guy that wins.


GUILFOYLE: Very interesting. Trump responded this morning.


TRUMP: This radical Islamic terrorism all over the world right now, it's a disaster what's going on. I assume he's denying that. I assume he's like our president that didn't -- that's denying its taking place. We have a serious problem. It's a temporary ban. It hasn't been called for yet. Nobody's done it. This is just a suggestion. Until we find out what's going on, but we have radical Islamic terrorism all over the world. I mean, you could start at the World Trade Center. Frankly, you can go Paris; you can go to San Bernardino, all over the world. If they want to deny it, they can deny it. I don't choose to deny it.


GUILFOYLE: OK, so from a communications standpoint, Dana, you had, you know, Trump saying OK, this is a good thing that we have him representing. The mayor didn't want to take that, so to speak, but use it as an opportunity to make a statement. What do you think about the back and forth, the exchange?

PERINO: Well, I -- I do congratulate the mayor that he's had a lot of firsts -- he was born in London, his parents had immigrated from, they've gone from India to Pakistan in 1947, and then his dad was a bus driver, his mom a seamstress. So he grows up, he becomes a lawyer. And he was actually -- he's not the kind of, like, he's not like ISIS, right? So this is a guy who got arrest -- or who got -- I think got arrested for, or at least. No, there's a fatwa called against the mayor because he supported gay marriage. So this is not like -- what people conjure up in terms of Islamic leaders. So I think what happens here is that you're going to see more of this, because they felt, as a whole, as a religion that they were punched in the face, so that's what Donald Trump says that he likes to punch back 10 times harder. Not that the mayor and the president of the United States -- the mayor of London and the president of the United States, aren't ever necessarily going to interact on policy at all. So this is kind of unnecessary and unfortunate. But I do think that he's the kind of moderate Muslim leader that we should try to emulate and have more of around the world.

GUILFOYLE: And to help in the fight.

PERINO: Yes he will help protect London. It's important.

GUILFOYLE: Radical Islamic terrorists. What do you think about the exchange?

BOLLING: We've had eight years, seven years plus of President Obama, who can't say "radical Muslim," "terror" and basically an open-border policy. Doesn't want to deport people, although Juan will tell us he's deporting more people than ever before. I would wholeheartedly disagree. He doesn't want to secure the border, wants to allow people to stay here, 5 million people offered amnesty.

So you've had that, and I think when Donald Trump came along and said, "Hold on, I want to build a wall, and I also want to put a halt on Muslim immigration -- or Muslim immigration into the United States," I'm not sure Donald Trump actually wanted to put the full halt on. I can't -- I'm not speaking for him. But I would guess it was just to juxtapose where he is, versus what we've had for the past seven, eight years, which Americans are frankly tired of. I mean, I think if you -- if you poll the popularity of, A, the wall and, B, the halting of the Muslim immigration, I think it's more than 50 percent. I could be wrong, but I think it's more than 50 percent.

So Trump speaks for a group of people. Whether he would implement that as President Trump, I think he just showed you right there that may not be the case. He said no one's done it yet and maybe he would have some sort of -- I don't know -- halt on that temporary halt. I think he's going to build the wall. I think the wall is coming.

My point was that Donald Trump made a name, got out there, being the anti- Obama, and it's working for him.

GUILFOYLE: OK. So Juan, what do you think about the exchange and also trying to build bridges with the moderate Muslims to help us against radical Islamic terrorists?

WILLIAMS: I think that's the key, Kimberly. I think it's the absolute key. And one of the things that was striking to me is that Trump then, I guess because of the anti-Obama fervor, says, "Oh, this guy, this new mayor, he probably denies that there's Islamic extremism and terrorism, too." Well, he doesn't. And you know...

SHILLUE: It's interesting, though, Juan, because what did the mayor say? He said that Trump says that Islam is incompatible with the west, and he didn't say that. So he's hyperbolizing on his side. It's a grade opportunity for Trump.

I think he loves this. Any time something happens in the world, he gets free press. He gets elected, this guy in London, and they ask him about Trump. He hyperbolizes, and he says something that' not true about Trump; and then Trump sounds moderate. This morning on the news it's -- "I never..."

PERINO: Because actually, Donald Trump writes in "The Art of the Deal" that that's what -- you should use hyperbole in order to get what you want later on. But now it's like reverse jujitsu.

SHILLUE: He did revert, because he loves when people use hyperbole against him.

BOLLING: You remember when the pope did that?

GUILFOYLE: Remember that?

BOLLING: The pope took a shot at me, and then that was a news cycle for a few days.

WILLIAMS: By the way, so it's not only the mayor of London who doesn't like Trump. Now the mayor of Paris says he's stupid. So I think world leaders are not having a good time with this.

BOLLING: World leaders? The mayor of London, the mayor of Paris?

WILLIAMS: Mayor of London, yes.

GUILFOYLE: OK. I'm glad we went over on time for that.

Oh, yes, Big Bird, de Blasio, we're coming for him next.

All right. Ahead, a series of questions from FOX News reporter James Rosen to the Obama administration were mysteriously omitted from the State Department's record. Was the State Department trying to cover up lies? Lyin' State Department? Rosen joins us next.


WILLIAMS: Did the State Department alter video of one of its press briefings to cover up deception by the Obama administration on its Iran negotiation? Questions from FOX News chief Washington correspondent James Rosen back in 2013 were omitted from the department's taped archives. Here's what the edited versions say.


JEN PSAKI, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: There are remaining concerns that we have, as you all are familiar with. Whether it's their involvement in support of the regime in Syria or humanitarian issues. And so that has not changed that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Obama administration says...


WILLIAMS: So what was cut out? Roughly eight minutes of video, including a response from then-State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki, admitting that sometimes the press needs to be misled to accomplish administration goals. This is what originally was on the tape.


PSAKI: James, I have no new information for you today. On the timing of when there were any discussions with any Iranian officials.

JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Let me try it one last way, Jen, and I appreciate your indulgence.

PSAKI: OK. Sure.

ROSEN: Is it the policy of the State Department, where the preservation of the secrecy of secret negotiations is concerned, to lie in order to achieve that goal?

PSAKI: James, I think there are times where diplomacy needs privacy in order to progress this is a good example of that.


WILLIAMS: The State Department is blaming the deletion on a glitch.


WILLIAMS: But a lot of people aren't buying it. Obviously Kimberly. And that includes James Rosen himself. He joins us now.

James, thanks so much. James, let me just begin by asking how did you discover that this material had been deleted from the archives?

ROSEN: Great to be with you, Juan, and the rest of you guys up there. Because this New York Times profile, this past weekend of Ben Rhodes caused so much controversy. The New York Times essentially accusing Ben Rhodes of deceiving the American people about the timing and origins of the Iran nuclear talks, which was essentially what I've been getting at in that very briefing.

We decided to cover the Ben Rhodes story, and I said to my producer, I want you to get these two briefings, one where they lied to me, and one later on when I confronted them about it. And guess what? My producer came back and said the part where you're supposed to be asking the question, there's a white flash, and the whole thing is edited out. We couldn't believe it.

WILLIAMS: Well, I -- you know, just given what you've been through, I just think, wow, James Rosen is really nailing it. Good job. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. It's really impressive. It just goes to show you, great journalist. And you haven't had it easy with them. Let me tell you. Their particular fixation on you.

But when you started to hear about this story, you were pretty certain that you had asked this series of questions. What was the first thing that came to mind?

ROSEN: Well the original lie. But back in February 2013 I got a tip that the United States, the Obama administration, was conducting direct secret bilateral talks with Iran, so I showed up at the State Department briefing room.

I asked the then-briefer, February 2013, Victoria Newland, point blank if that was true. And she said the kind of government -- government contacts you're talking about, no. From the podium she said that those talks were ongoing for more than a year at that point.

When those talks were finally disclosed, I went back months later to confront and, yes, a bit, torment Jen Psaki with it. And I knew that the facts were on my side, and eventually, Jen Psaki admitted what had happened.

It's just stunning to me that they would think they could get away with this deletion. They deleted it not only on their website where they archive all the videos of the briefings, but on their State Department YouTube channel, as well. And the record we've tracked a little bit shows that most likely, this was exactly the way the briefing was put up three years ago.


WILLIAMS: Let me go to Eric.

GUILFOYLE: Appalling.

BOLLING: So I'm listening to this, James. And, you know, I agree with Jen Psaki that sometimes diplomacy needs a little privacy, I think that's -- that's clear.

However, the part where they cut out the question and then throw it away and then, as you said, they cover their trail on the Internet, as well. They covered it everywhere. Therein lies the problem. There goes the transparency.

But, you know, what could she have -- how could she have handled your question without giving away the fact that they were in some talks that maybe they didn't want the public to know about?

ROSEN: You're talking about the original briefing...


ROSEN: ... with Victoria Newland. So the briefer has many options at her disposal in such a setting. She can simply say, "No comment." Right?

You know, it's OK to spin. We all understand that spin-meisters have been on the White House payroll for 50 years now. But the forbidden zone for the briefer, standing at the podium where the seal of the State Department rests right there for the whole world to see, live in real-time, the forbidden zone is lying, you're not allowed to outright deceive from that podium. And that's where they strayed into the forbidden zone.

I might just add One More Thing, Eric. You know, I might agree with you that secret negotiations might have to be kept secret. We might even agree there could be situations where lying about that might be permissible.

But there are other lies in connection with this whole business about the lies of the substance of the Iran deal, not just the timing, the origins and when they're ongoing. There were lies told about what's actually in the deal, and that continues to this day.

WILLIAMS: Let's go to our own spokeswoman, Dana Perino.

PERINO: So one of the things she could have done, James, is say, "No comment" from the podium and then call you up later, ask you, "Hey, come to my office" and say, "Look, when there's something I can tell you, I will tell you. I promise you that." And then you probably wouldn't have this problem.

Two questions: Do you think that the communications team knew this was happening? Or will they blame it on, like, an intern or lower level staffer, who is trying to protect them? I know they say it's a glitch. That is not going to hold up.

The second thing I want to know is have you had any reaction from your colleagues, the other reporters in the briefing room, maybe from other networks or reporters in the briefing room or other networks or newspapers who might be sympathetic? Has anybody asked the State Department besides you about this issue?

ROSEN: Well, quite felicitously, Dana, we can answer both of those questions.

PERINO: Never had that word on this show.

ROSEN: Have me back. There will be more.

The State Department press corps, for the past two days, yesterday and today, in the briefings has been asking about it with no prompting from me or from FOX News. Matt Lee, who's for the Associated Press, kind of the dean of the State Department press corps, was openly sarcastic about this explanation of a glitch, saying, "Gee, of all the briefings, there's only one time this glitch has happened, and eight minutes are gone, and it's all of Rosen's questioning."

Today they followed up and they said, "You said yesterday you're going to look into how this happened." And today they said they're still looking into it. I think they're hoping it will go away.

WILLIAMS: All right. My personal spokesman, Tom Shillue.

SHILLUE: OK, Rosen, I remember the Nixon tapes from when I was a kid. Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman played Woodward and Bernstein. Who is going to play Rosen in "All Jen's Men"?

ROSEN: Well, I don't want to be -- I don't want to be big-headed about this, but I think Zac Effron, perhaps, could play James Rosen or maybe Robert Downey.

SHILLUE: How about Ryan Gosling?

ROSEN: I'm with you on this one. I'm with you.

BOLLING: Go to Bradley Cooper. Go right to the top.

GUILFOYLE: Straight A (ph).

WILLIAMS: James, thank you so much. And he hope that this plays out. Because I don't think anybody is buying the glitch argument. So we'll see how it goes. But they should be held accountable. No question.

GUILFOYLE: And we'll have him back.

WILLIAMS: We will. We'll talk to James again. He'll bring us big words again, Kimberly.


WILLIAMS: All right. Still to come, a major announcement from Justin Bieber. It's just upsetting fans, including Tom Shillue, everywhere. What the singer says he won't be doing any more. It has Beliebers going wild. When "The Five" returns.


SHILLUE: Never too late to say sorry. If any of you have Justin fever like I do and have a chance to meet your idol one day, just remember this: Do not ask him for a photo. Justin is done taking them.

In March the pop star canceled all future meet and greets at his concerts, and he's upsetting more fans by announcing this new decision on his Instagram account: "If you happen to see me out somewhere, know I'm not going to take a picture. I'm done taking pictures. It has gotten to the point that people won't even say 'hi' to me or recognize me as a human. I feel like a zoo animal, and I want to be able to keep my sanity. I realize that people will be disappointed, but I don't owe anybody a picture."

That's right. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: How much does that cost in therapy, huh?

SHILLUE: You get asked to take pictures all the time.


SHILLUE: Do you appreciate it?

GUILFOYLE: Sure. Because, you know, people stand outside all the time. They want to take pictures. Don't say that. Dana is giving me, like...

SHILLUE: She's saying, "Don't encourage her."

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, I think it's that people watch the show.


GUILFOYLE: Are super into it. They're excited to meet you, we get children, moms, dads, brothers, sisters. It's actually very sweet, I think. I think it's nice. I mean, unless you're, like, super creepy and a stalker. Then that's, like...


PERINO: And if you know how to use your phone, it's a huge plus.

SHILLUE: When they stop you -- they stop you, "Hey, Dana, can you take a picture? OK, let me go through my bag." Have the camera ready, at least. Right?

GUILFOYLE: I never said no to a picture.

PERINO: No. Never.

SHILLUE: But when you're at the Bieber level. He can't live his life. He feels like a zoo animal.

PERINO: I can't even -- I can't imagine.

Also like I could not -- if I saw him on a street, I probably wouldn't recognize him. So he doesn't have to worry about me.

SHILLUE: You would recognize him by the bare feet. Do we have those photos? He's -- he's living the life he wants to live now. Look at him, no shoes, walking around Boston.


SHILLUE: That's Bieber.


GUILFOYLE: Is he about to have a breakdown?

SHILLUE: He wants to live his life.

BOLLING: No, I think he's full-fledged breakdown right now.

GUILFOYLE: He's like Twinkies with Miley Cyrus.

BOLLING: People didn't want to take your picture, you'd be going crazy.

SHILLUE: But I'm just saying, look...

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, you always stop and take pictures.

BOLLING: Pictures. One time we're at the convention. We went from one street to the next street to go to, like, the one part -- she stopped 47 times. And I'm telling you...

GUILFOYLE: You don't want to go anywhere with me.

BOLLING: They're like, "Hey, sir, can you take my picture with Kimberly?" I'm like, "Yes, all right, whatever.

SHILLUE: Well, I'm still that way, Eric. And you know, I do love when fans take pictures. And if you want to take a picture with me, I will -- sometimes I approach them. But the thing is, when you reach that level, Juan, that high level of fame, I've seen some of these people. They can't go anywhere. They can't stop at a rest stop. So I say, you know, give them a break.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. I mean, it's an odd thing, because you know, look, he has fans, and the fans deserve to be treated with respect. I mean, but I got to tell you, it does get out of control. I remember once I was with Oprah Winfrey.

SHILLUE: Name dropper.

WILLIAMS: She couldn't -- no, this is a serious story. She couldn't go to the ladies' room. I mean, people would be, like, waiting inside the ladies' room.

GUILFOYLE: That happens to me all the time.

WILLIAMS: That's just awful.

GUILFOYLE: It's really true. People follow me in the bathroom and then they give me a coupon for salami.

BOLLING: No, no, I want to know what you did with Oprah Winfrey.

WILLIAMS: I wrote a -- I wrote a TV show for her.

BOLLING: Fantastic.

SHILLUE: Here's a tip for you. Fans, just take the picture. You don't have to be in it. When they walk by, snap the picture.

GUILFOYLE: But you shouldn't be waiting outside the bathroom stall in the bathroom. So like, in the bathroom? That's a little, like...

SHILLUE: OK. "One More Thing" is up next.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." It's already time for "One More Thing." Eric, you start.

BOLLING: OK. So you know I played pro ball, and there are bat boys, and there are ball boys. The bat boys, they kind of straighten the dugout, make sure the dugout's OK. They get the bat after a batter hits the ball and runs the bases.

The ball boys are in charge of, you know, shagging balls, the right field line and the left field line. So that the outfielders don't have to chase the balls and slow down the game.

This kid last night, the Orioles at the Twins, there's a ball boy on the right field line. The line drive goes. Watch how this plays out. Watch.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ball boy, protecting a fan.


BOLLING: Just watch. Watch this. Just take a look at this. This kid jumps out of the chair, leans over. There's a fan about to get blasted by a line drive, and he saves her or him or whoever the kid was. And makes this amazing catch. But we can't find out this guy's name. I'd love to find out what this ball boy's name is, because he's a hero.

GUILFOYLE: I love that.

PERINO: What a good guy. Huh? Sweetheart.

PERINO: That's why I don't go to the games, because I'm terrified of that. I'll be paying attention and get hit in the face.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, you're next.

WILLIAMS: You've got to go with Eric and me. We'll protect you.

All right. So anyway, just picking up on Eric's theme, last night at the Red Sox/A's game at Fenway, there was a great tribute to a World War II vet. Ben Socca (ph), sitting down the third base line, was celebrating his 100th birthday, when the ball girl picked up the ball and gave it to Ben. It's such a wonderful moment. I'll tell you, it makes me emotional. It was so much fun, the whole stands went crazy. Because they know it's a 100th birthday for a great guy.

Ben, happy birthday.

GUILFOYLE: That's very sweet. Happy birthday.

SHILLUE: He's not afraid, Dana.



PERINO: Better ball player than me.

GUILFOYLE: An incredible story of heroism. There is a young woman by the name of Sarah Rudder (ph), and she was on the verge of a key promotion in the U.S. Marines on September 11 when it happened. And she ultimately, when she was trying to go back to help people -- she survived the Pentagon. And she went back the next day to try to help people and go through the debris, her leg ended up being crushed in a concrete barrier. Ultimately, had to get amputated.

But she's a huge star with a great attitude, and she was a star at the international Invictus Games, winning seven medals, OK, including shotput. I mean, what a superstar and a great attitude and somebody who's just really persevered through tremendous difficulty.

PERINO: Wow, I should have had a better "One More Thing," because all -- That was very inspiring. I loved Juan's. Eric's was great. I have puppies. They're not my puppies. Look at these puppies from Scotland. This is a little boy named Louie. He has 7-month-old -- sorry, 7-week-old pug puppies, and they never leave him alone. They follow him absolutely everywhere. They think he's one of them. It's very cute. Got to love pugs.

GUILFOYLE: Do they turn into, like, nurses or something?

PERINO: Maybe they are. I don't know. Good question. Kimberly, good question.

Tom, you're next.

SHILLUE: OK. I tell Bolls to this all the time. If you are a bull and the police tell you to slow down, slow down. All right? Pull over. Look at the video, watch. Look at this.




SHILLUE: He's saying, "Pull over, pull over. Get over to the side of the road." He won't do it.

PERINO: Where is that?

SHILLUE: I don't know where it is. But I like watching videos of -- I like watching animal videos.

I saw this. It's in Texas, of course. That's where the -- listen, the bulls, you've got to listen to police.

PERINO: In Spain, you actually run with the bulls.

GUILFOYLE: This is like chasing the bulls. So obviously, the bull is running, because he's being chased by a car.

SHILLUE: But look at our wonderful police. They're very restrained.

PERINO: They are. All right. Set the DVRs for "The Five." Never miss it. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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