This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 6, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, I'm Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Melissa Francis -- "The Five."
House Speaker Paul Ryan says he won't back Donald Trump until he does more to unify the party. Roll it, Sven: (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE PAUL RYAN, R-WIS.: To be perfectly candid with you, Jake, I'm just not ready to do that at this point. I'm not there right now. And I hope to, though. And I want to. But I think what is required is that we unify this Party. And I think the bulk of the burden on unifying the Party will have to come from our presumptive nominee.
I think that he needs to do more to unify this Party to bring all wings of the Republican Party together, and then to go forward and to appeal to all Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I know, what a jerk. I mean, sure, conservatives should despise group think and embrace individualism, but it's time to get to the program. So what if you're worried about a guy who changed parties five times, hedges on taxes, contradicts himself on foreign policy, favors raising the minimum wage, linked Ted Cruz to JFK's death, blamed Bush for 9/11, ridiculed the war hero and took a picture with a taco salad while saying I love Hispanics? I, for one can't wait to see how President Trump celebrates Martin Luther King Day. What will he eat then?
I kid the Donald. Anyway, Ryan says he's not ready and --
GUTFELD: Ryan says he's not ready, and some true conservatives are mad that Ryan won't back a liberal Republican. But it's nice to see the same people who are cheering disruption just weeks ago, now demanding unity.
For me, Trump's killing of ideology is great. If only he replaces it with principles. As for Ryan, you don't have to worry, he's meeting Donald next week, and 10-1 they'll end up eating taco salads in Trump Tower. And then all of our noted principled conservatives can relax as another one falls in line. Finally, what does the current president have to say about this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I think I just want to emphasize the degree to which we are in serious times and this is a really serious job. This is not entertainment. This is not a reality show.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Says the guy who ate raw salmon with Bear Grylls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Yeah, let's try it out. Come on. That looks like a good little sample. That's tasty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: It is tasty. So what's this about a reality show?
Kimberly, at least he did -- Trump did the reality show before he became president. President Obama is doing the reality show while he was president.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes, yes, yes, just asked GloZell Green with the whole bathtub with -- was it fruit loops or something?
GUTFELD: Yes --
GUTFELD: Don't you think that Ryan's language suggests that he will be ready?
GUILFOYLE: Well, of course. But this is, you know, it's kind of just like covering all the bases. They're going to meet on Thursday, they're going to speak, they've got the group meeting and they've got the private meeting with, you know, Reince Priebus. It's going to work out because it sort of has to, because the alternative is Hillary Clinton.
GUTFELD: What if, Eric, they have a meeting and Ryan becomes his VP?
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: No, just not gonna happen.
MELISSA FRANCIS, GUEST CO-HOST: I agree.
BOLLING: Do you remember the list she just read?
BOLLING: You know, flip-flop on this --
BOLLING: Change parties five times. And you forgot the last one, and then beat the pants off of everyone else in the field .
GUTFELD: No, that's true.
BOLLING: . including every other establishment --
GUTFELD: That's true, because those things don't matter. Right, so --
BOLLING: Jeb Bush, Lindsey Graham --
GUTFELD: Don't matter.
BOLLING: You know when this is, this is, I've been formulating this all day. The Business Network, I sit on the 12th floor with the business people.
FRANCIS: Oh, oh.
BOLLING: . which is just down the hallway.
BOLLING: And I'm watching The Business Network. And I realize what this is, Donald Trump has done, has pulled off a hostile takeover of the GOP, right? Where companies just sitting there and -- even if they're not healthy, even they're a good company, but they're not healthy enough, someone can swoop in and take them.
GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true.
BOLLING: That's what Donald Trump did. Healthy companies would be able to fight off the hostile takeovers with --
FRANCIS: I like that.
BOLLING: Cash, and with things and .
BOLLING: . stock, but the GOP was so ill. It was so ripe for a takeover. Trump saw it and he swooped in, and he did. And guess who's next, crooked Hillary.
GUTFELD: You know, it's like -- you compare it to, I compare it to like a hacker who takes the existing information and then creates a new way to take advantage of it. It's kind of the same thing.
BOLLING: Same thing.
GUTFELD: Yeah, you could read it on foxnews.com today. It's out there.
FRANCIS: OK. I'll do that --
GUTFELD: But I want to bring up something.
GUTFELD: Lindsey Graham issued a statement --
GUTFELD: He is saying he won't support Trump, but Dick Cheney said he will, and then Jeb said he won't. So it's the weird kind of like phenomenon. One people -- let some people --
FRANCIS: OK, So my personal theory is that Trump is paying these people to say that they won't support it, because it would be a disaster if they did support him. Mitt Romney's endorsement would be like the kiss of death. He'd have to go like egg Mitt Romney's house, mansion or something, if he supported him. I just ask --
GUTFELD: Because everybody hates Mitt.
FRANCIS: Well, I mean --
FRANCIS: Because if that's --
GUTFELD: He's an awful guy.
FRANCIS: The whole street cred know -- Trump's whole street cred is that the establishment is against him. So if all of a sudden they come out and endorse him, he's screwed. It's way too early. I mean, it's got to be, it's got to be the last possible second they say well, he's better than Hillary. I just asked Katrina Pierson about this in the last hour and I was like, I -- this is the dead-serious question.
GUTFELD: An objective person.
FRANCIS: How would you spin it? How would you possibly spin it if Mitt Romney came out and said that he -- she was for -- he was for your campaign? And she didn't really have an answer for that, because it would be a disaster.
GUTFELD: That's impossible.
GUTFELD: Because you have an answer for everything. Juan, what is your take on this? Do you think that Paul Ryan is going to come around, just like everybody else? --
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: It doesn't matter at this point, because -- I mean the fact that he did what he did at this moment, kind of the high point when, you know, everybody is rallying to Trump and Trump's trying to rally the troops and say we can unify. And Paul Ryan sass the top republican official in the nation, just rebuked the nominee. And said, it's on the nominee, it's his burden to unify the party, not on the party. And so what you see is people like Mary Matalin saying, you know what, I'm leaving the Republican Party. What you see is not only is George H.W., and George W., and McCain saying they're not going to go to the convention, now you have a bunch of senators. People running in Senate races saying we're not right now, why is Paul Ryan doing what he's doing? I think there are two reasons. One is matter of principle to pick up on your point, Greg.
GUTFELD: Thank you.
WILLIAMS: You know what, you think about his principles, he's a, you know, he's a Jack Kemp guy. That's who he -- that's who he's (inaudible). And Jack Kemp, in terms of American economics is all about smaller government.
GUTFELD: Free trade.
WILLIAMS: He's all about free trade. He's all about limiting government intervention in our lives, and here's Donald Trump saying, oh, I really want health care, national health care, education, eminent domain.
BOLLING: But Paul Ryan, besides being a Jack Kemp guy is also the speaker of the House.
BOLLING: He represents all the representatives who represent all the people.
BOLLING: . in the country. And you would want that guy to variably get behind the nominee so that you do unify the country. He wants to be --
WILLIAMS: No, no. In other words, you're putting it on him, but let me just say --
BOLLING: Of course, I am.
WILLIAMS: But let me just say something.
BOLLING: Of course I am, because you know why, Juan?
WILLIAMS: No. It's not doesn't work.
BOLLING: Because Donald Trump won the nomination.
BOLLING: That's why.
WILLIAMS: It doesn't work.
BOLLING: He want a fair and square --
WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something --
BOLLING: He played by the rules and he won. So everyone --
WILLIAMS: Yeah, you --
BOLLING: He doesn't complain about it. He should .
WILLIAMS: It doesn't work that way.
BOLLING: . get behind the people --
WILLIAMS: It doesn't work. You know why?
FRANCIS: It won't hurt him.
WILLIAMS: Because he's the head of the House of Representatives and he's worried about his members.
GUTFELD: That's what it gets.
WILLIAMS: . losing.
GUTFELD: Yeah. Isn't he trying to provide some kind of cover for, to kind of retain a House majority? Couldn't that be it?
WILLIAMS: I say, oh gee, yes.
FRANCIS: I think --
FRANCIS: Helping Trump is what he's doing.
BOLLING: Instead of jumping in and saying, you know what, this is a bigger party. We can win with Donald Trump because we're better than the Hillary Clinton's. You mentioned a bunch of people who weren't going to show up at the --
BOLLING: Convention. Rick Perry, who trashed Donald Trump months ago, now says, "Not only do I endorse him, I want to be his VP." Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney is on board with Trump. Mike Pence who endorsed Ted Cruz, last week, one week ago today says, "You know, Ted Cruz is my guy, that's' the weak- kneed endorsement." Well he said today, "Donald Trump is my guy." The Ricketts family, this is a big one.
GUILFOYLE: That is a huge one.
BOLLING: Big money who are behind the establishment candidates now say, we just need to win. They've gotten behind Donald Trump and Reince Priebus.
WILLIAMS: OK. So Eric, let me get you the other --
GUILFOYLE: They were behind (inaudible) before.
WILLIAMS: Let me get you the other end of the world. The other end of the world is people like Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska says, "Hmm, a third party?" Maybe we should start a third party, because this is the end of the republican. Charles Krauthammer, much loved commentator on this network, what was Charles Krauthammer says, "This is an inflection point. This is the end of a major political party. Let's have some perspective."
FRANCIS: So Juan --
WILLIAMS: "This is an earthquake."
FRANCIS: Juan, do you think they realize they're helping him? I mean, they are helping him. When they come out and they denounce him and they say that he doesn't represent the party --
GUTFELD: So if you --
FRANCIS: I don't think --
GUTFELD: Do you maintain your principles?
FRANCIS: He could be (inaudible).
GUTFELD: You should -- so if you maintain, you want to maintain your principles .
FRANCIS: If you want --
GUTFELD: . what do you do?
FRANCIS: I think if you want to hurt Trump.
BOLLING: Can I --
FRANCIS: . those guys, they should go endorse him.
BOLLING: Can I ask you --
FRANCIS: That would be the way --
BOLLING: Can I ask you --
FRANCIS: And that would be way to hurt him.
GUTFELD: Yeah, sure.
BOLLING: On the principles?
BOLLING: You and I were sitting at this table four years ago. We didn't love where Mitt Romney was.
BOLLING: And variably eight years ago, we didn't love where John McCain was, ideologically.
BOLLING: It was against some of our -- you were a libertarian; I was a little bit farther right. It was against some of our principles to endorse a guy who was looking for open borders, who would create Romney care in Massachusetts.
BOLLING: We got behind him, because he was a better choice than --
BOLLING: Obama, the socialist, in my opinion.
GUTFELD: Good point.
BOLLING: But we did.
GUTFELD: Yeah. But here is the -- for me, anyway, it's different. As I said before, I have to be hypercritical, because I don't have all the facts on Trump, because there are too many contradictions. So I have to be true to myself. That's all I'm doing. I just -- I'm like a parent that is exceptionally hard on his kid. I need to know that I got to see the homework. I got to know that he's doing his homework. I got to know that he knows the issues. I can't just -- you know it's like, going for Trump is like one of those corporate exercises where they say, trust me, close your eyes and fall, and I'll catch you?
WILLIAMS: But that's what --
GUTFELD: He might not be there.
WILLIAMS: Right, and not only that.
GUILFOYLE: You'd never let anybody do that.
WILLIAMS: But here's the thing --
FRANCIS: Can we try that today?
WILLIAMS: Ryan, Ryan is got two things to work with. One, guess what, the odds are against Trump winning. He's got to protect the future of the party beyond.
WILLIAMS: . Donald Trump. And the second thing to say is how come you don't know Donald Trump at this point, Gregory?
GUTFELD: I've tried, but --
WILLIAMS: Are you kidding? Ryan said --
GUILFOYLE: Well, sounds like he's not an open mind.
WILLIAMS: Ryan had to come out and condemn when he said the Muslim ban, right? He had -- Ryan come out and condemn when he said, he's not responsible for violence at his rallies. Ryan came out and said, you know, this KKK thing where you're reluctant to say anything about it, this is a party that does not indulge bigotry.
GUTFELD: Kimberly, what are your thoughts?
GUILFOYLE: Was that like a paid Super PAC for Hillary?
GUTFELD: Do you want --
GUILFOYLE: Because I'm bleeding out of my ears from that. What?
GUTFELD: Do you want to hear Donald, Donald Trump's response about this meeting and the comments?
GUILFOYLE: If that would help you, go ahead.
GUTFELD: No, I want to --
GUTFELD: I want to include you .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead.
GUTFELD: ... in this rather vibrant conversation.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly.
GUTFELD: All right. Roll it.
BOLLING: Sven (ph)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 2016 GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was very, very surprised, I mean, he talks about unity, but what is this about unity?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
TRUMP: And you know, with millions of people coming into the party, obviously I'm saying the right thing. And you know the party was stayed, it had a lot of problems. I think it was something that the party should get solved quickly, and I know we're meeting next week.
TRUMP: They wanted to meet next week. I have absolutely no idea. Look, my attitude is a lot of people say it's a great thing. I don't necessary agree, but I can understand that point of view. Again, millions of people have come in to the party and there's .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
TRUMP: . reason for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Kimberly, your thoughts on his response.
GUILFOYLE: I think that his response is good and it's actually pretty measured, you know. Given what could be considered the severity of, you know Speaker Ryan is making that statement. Ultimately, they're going to meet on Thursday and this is gonna resolve, because it has to. And also, he brings up a great point. He has about a lot of like passion and excitement into the party. So find a way to make a bigger tent and make it work. Otherwise, you're playing for the other team, really, if you just try --
GUTFELD: That's, I disagree.
GUILFOYLE: I do -- well, just trying.
GUTFELD: If you disagree with Donald Trump, that doesn't make you a traitor.
GUILFOYLE: That's not what I'm saying.
BOLLING: No, no --
GUTFELD: You just did -- traitor.
BOLLING: But if you don't vote for Donald Trump .
GUILFOYLE: No, I didn't say that.
BOLLING: . you make him more likely that Hillary wins --
GUILFOYLE: That's -- yeah.
BOLLING: That the five or six wins can tell --
BOLLING: They'll decide the election.
FRANCIS: But this not what Paul Ryan said. Anyway, this is like two dogs circling each other. I mean, they're getting together next week to kind of sniff each other and see what's going here -- I know. And they're going to negotiate over what their position is here. I mean, Speaker Ryan is not saying you never Trump.
FRANCIS: He's just saying let's get together and sit down.
GUTFELD: Yeah, you know, he's playing hard to get.
FRANCIS: There you go.
GUTFELD: That's what it is. It's not just gonna go --
GUTFELD: It's not last call at the bar yet, you know.
GUTFELD: He's just hanging out, seeing what's going to happen.
BOLLING: She -- by Donald Trump's last girl at the bar.
FRANCIS: That's right.
BOLLING: The last one standing.
GUILFOYLE: My point is.
FRANCIS: It's true.
GUTFELD: We need a metaphor.
GUILFOYLE: . have an open mind. Now calling -- I didn't call --
GUILFOYLE: Specifically did not call anybody a traitor. What I'm saying is have an open mind and see and take it to the end. If you're convinced at the end, you are. If you're not, you're not. You have to guide by your own principle.
WILLIAMS: As I recall, your ears are bleeding from hearing the fact that people opposed --
GUILFOYLE: Of your Super PAC announcement right there.
WILLIAMS: People opposed Donald Trump, and it makes your ears bleed. I mean that's --
GUILFOYLE: No. You.
GUTFELD: All right.
WILLIAMS: Not me.
GUILFOYLE: . with that monologue about Hillary.
GUTFELD: Enough of the ears bleeding, we got to go to (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Oh no, it was Greg did the monologue.
GUTFELD: Coming up. A hacker told NBC he broke into Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server more than a month ago. So why did the network sit on this huge story until this week. Is the mainstream media, or the lamestream (ph) media, I just made that phrase.
FRANCIS: Oh, I love it.
FRANCIS: I love it. I love it.
GUTFELD: -- protecting her? That was a big update on the FBI's investigation, next.
GUILFOYLE: All right, some big developments this week on Hillary Clinton's e-mail scandal. We're now learning the FBI has interviewed the presidential candidate's closest aides, including top adviser, Huma Abedin. The Clinton campaign is, of course, spinning it as a positive, saying this will prove nothing inappropriate took place. Meanwhile, yesterday, we told you about a foreign hacker who claims he broke into the former secretary of state's private server, twice, back in 2013. Now NBC News apparently was sitting on these explosive claims for more than a month. Why you ask? Is Hillary being held to a different standard by the media? That's what Donald Trump's campaign thinks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SPOKESWOMAN: Hillary Clinton has never been truly vetted before.
TAMRON HALL, MSNBC ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton has never been vetted before?
PIERSON: Never been truly vetted before. How many times has Hillary Clinton been asked about the specific role in Benghazi, outside of the testimony? There's an entire generation of voters out there that know nothing about Hillary Clinton other than what they've heard in the last two to three years. There's plenty of information that needs to be discussed on top of the Hillary -- the Clinton Foundation, which has not been fully discussed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Sitting on the story for a month could be considered significant. Eric, do you think there is a double standard here as it relates to --
BOLLING: I don't know why they did, though. Is there a reason that they put out? I mean, they usually -- a story. You check your -- you've check your sources, then you offer the people -- the subject of the story, (inaudible) to go with this, and tell us why we're wrong and shouldn't, if you don't hear anything, then you ran it. But for a month, it takes you about; you know, two or three minutes to make sure all of those boxes are checked. I have no idea why they did. I can't imagine it helps or hurts. It just makes them look foolish; not Hillary. But he -- she says this is going to prove nothing inappropriate took place. OK, we'll see, we shall this -- we shall see this two, but I --
GUILFOYLE: And then --
BOLLING: Again, I think that --
BOLLING: I think that string being pulled on the Clinton Foundation is all you gonna, you find something attached to it.
GUILFOYLE: And what do you think, Melissa? You have experienced with that news organization?
FRANCIS: Yeah, no. I mean, they got -- I have my own experience with, you know, not wanting to talk about the math behind Obamacare and how it obviously didn't make sense and me being told to stop talking about such a thing. At the same time, I have to say so, you know, this is a hacker who obviously has some credibility, because he's being extradited. The FBI is bringing him here, but him saying that he hacked into her server. I mean, I don't know. I could see how they would sit -- kind of have some qualms about it. Now they do look silly, because now everybody has talked to them and the story is everywhere. So it looks like they sat on it, but -- I don't know. We'll see. I mean, as far as the investigation, it's never a good thing to be talking to the FBI. I don't know how you could possibly spin that .
FRANCIS: . in a positive light. The FBI saying, come here now and answer these questions, there's no scenario where that's ever a good thing. And I hope it never happens to me.
GUILFOYLE: You don't want that (inaudible). All right, so Greg, what do you make of it, double standard or no?
GUTFELD: Maybe. I don't know. I keep thinking about Huma, who is now being investigated. So online communications has now become the bane of her existence.
GUTFELD: She got her boss is exposing her security or husband Weiner, just exposing himself. She needs to move to a prairie in Minnesota, because this is not helping her. But it's weird --
GUTFELD: It's weird. The dems do not have a back-up plan for this. It's like when you drive across country, you have a spare tire. If you ever run a country, you better have a spare leader.
FRANCIS: Yeah, you're right.
GUTFELD: And it's like, and it seems like Hillary and the media is partially to blame, because they're not actually -- since "The New York Times" broke this story, nobody has done anything except for Fox News really on this. She thinks that it's a pimple, but it's an evolving mole. This thing could get really, really serious fact.
GUILFOYLE: Well, that's why people are saying, that's why Bernie Sanders, Juan, is like staying in it and in it for the long haul, because anything could happen. I don't think it makes any sense for him to get out at this point.
WILLIAMS: I do. But you know what? No one is pushing Bernie Sanders out, because everybody wants his backers. They've got enthusiasm, they've got money, they are young people, I mean, I think democrats are saying, don't put pressure on Bernie. Don't make it seem like you're pushing him out. Now I have a bunch of questions about this Guccifer, Lucifer, who knows what a fer (ph) a guy -- you said, because he's being --
WILLIAMS: He's being extradited, he has credibility.
FRANCIS: No, I'm saying that there must be something there. I don't think they would go through the time and trouble in expense.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, but it --
FRANCIS: . of going there --
WILLIAMS: It doesn't have to be extradition --
FRANCIS: And extraditing, and bringing him here to the U.S.
WILLIAMS: Right, but the extradition --
FRANCIS: But there wasn't something to it.
WILLIAMS: But Melissa --
FRANCIS: They wouldn't go get it.
WILLIAMS: The extradition is not related to this case.
FRANCIS: He -- there's something to what he did --
WILLIAMS: Oh, no. I'm just saying, is this is --
GUILFOYLE: He's talking to the FBI.
FRANCIS: He's talking about that he --
WILLIAMS: No, he's talking about his criminal behavior, but this is a separate thing. He could be using it to bargain for. I will say this, that I think that when you look at the reality of the last few days, you see CNN reporting, no evidence of criminal wrongdoing. The "Washington Post" reporting that prosecutors and the FBI find scant evidence, that a quote that Hillary Clinton intended to break the law or break the --
GUILFOYLE: But that's not the standard.
WILLIAMS: So what you have --
BOLLING: The intent is.
WILLIAMS: I'm just telling you --
WILLIAMS: No, no, no.
BOLLING: You don't need the intent.
WILLIAMS: It's very relevant in terms of what the prosecutors .
BOLLING: Probably no.
FRANCIS: It's not.
BOLLING: Don't you know?
WILLIAMS: And the FBI --
BOLLING: You don't need intent, Juan.
FRANCIS: You don't need intent.
WILLIAMS: You know what?
GUILFOYLE: It's just wrong.
WILLIAMS: This is a fantasy. But I'm gonna say, I just don't get it when you use media terms, say, why is NBC doing this? Maybe NBC had questions about the credibility of this person. This -- I mean, guy goes around calling himself Guccifer or whatever. It's like --
GUTFELD: You're saying you don't to get burned, right?
FRANCIS: You know, I -- I can do that, Juan.
WILLIAMS: You said that it's one source.
FRANCIS: Yeah, Juan, I can see that.
WILLIAMS: If not, lacking credibility.
FRANCIS: But you're wrong it would --
GUILFOYLE: He's got to be able to back it up.
FRANCIS: It's about the idea about nobody pushing Bernie Sanders to get out. And I don't know if you saw Hillary Clinton in Los Angeles talking about how, when it was her, and she was in the race, and the margin was so much closer, and she bowed to the side and let Obama win --
WILLIAMS: He can't bow to the side.
FRANCIS: That's what she said.
WILLIAMS: She can't do it.
FRANCIS: That's what she said. That's what she said. We've been playing it all day long. She said she got to the side and she let him go, even though it was closer. So maybe it's time for Bernie to do the same. But I agree with you on Guccifer, Lucifer, whatever this lunatic name is.
FRANCIS: I could see them having some qualms about how --
GUILFOYLE: Because he has to back it up. You're able to make .
GUILFOYLE: . an imprint and copy a file. There's forensic documentation that can be provided to back of the story. It's that true or it's not?
WILLIAMS: There's nothing so far.
GUILFOYLE: But what do you know?
WILLIAMS: There's nothing so far, because --
GUILFOYLE: Are you in the FBI?
WILLIAMS: No, because what we know so far is that. GUILFOYLE: I actually know (inaudible) person.
WILLIAMS: . when he was asked about -- what did you find it? It's all incorrect.
BOLLING: Breaking in is the crime, not what he finds.
WILLIAMS: But he said --
BOLLING: Just the fact that he hacked in to --
WILLIAMS: There's no evidence he actually did it.
BOLLING: The server.
FRANCIS: How did he get to something he posted online? He posted stuff online.
WILLIAMS: Which was inaccurate.
FRANCIS: How did he get it?
WILLIAMS: That's -- I'm just telling you, he got stuff from Blumenthal, but he -- did he break into Hillary Clinton's? That's' a step --
GUILFOYLE: Well then, how did he get it, if he got the access and said.
WILLIAMS: I said it was an accident.
GUILFOYLE: Blumenthal and Hillary -- well I --
WILLIAMS: Blumenthal has a different mind.
GUILFOYLE: Why is he talking to the FBI about it?
WILLIAMS: Well, he's a criminal.
GUILFOYLE: No, about this specific situation.
WILLIAMS: Because I guess maybe he wants (inaudible).He's hoping he got something to get himself out of trouble.
GUILFOYLE: Juan, just hoping you'll be makes fun of that with the name that the story will go away.
GUTFELD: Well you know that, I think part of the reason why the story is treated lightly like this, it's because, even though the "Times" broke it. We -- whenever something becomes at Fox News, it gets that Fox News story syndrome. Where it's like, oh, we can't do that story, because Fox News is doing it. Oh no, this is always the case with -- look at Benghazi. Benghazi was treated like a joke on Comedy Central, MSNBC, everywhere treated like - - because we, we pushed that story because we believed something horrible happened.
BOLLING: And that border agent.
FRANCIS: Right, right, right.
BOLLING: But Terry -- who hasn't afraid to go.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. No, absolutely.
BOLLING: That one else want to --
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, gun walking.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Ahead, Eric has a nanny state update that might make your head explodes, for real. Greg is fuming about one of the government's newest crackdowns, so please stay tuned.
BOLLING: From coast to coast, the nanny state is hard at work micromanaging every aspects of our lives. Just a few of the latest examples, California just raised a smoking age from 18 to 21. In New York City, liberal law makers have just imposed the five cent fee on every single plastic bag, and the federal government and the FDA is now regulating e-cigarettes in the entire nation then sales to anyone under 18 requiring labels, requiring labels, and making all products subject to government approval. Is there any part of our life that they don't want to control? Now Greg, you really (inaudible) on a smoking --
GUTFELD: My head --
BOLLING: These regulations.
GUTFELD: My head will explode. Number one, if you're old enough to fight for this country, you can smoke a cigarette. The fact is, if vaping cigarettes (inaudible) or around in 1970, many of our relatives would be alive today, because vaping would have prevented probably a half million deaths per year. And it has the potential for eliminating so much suffering. I have some facts here, just because people don't understand vaping. It doesn't contain the same compounds in traditional cigarettes. It doesn't have the tobacco, it doesn't have the tar. All it has is nicotine. Nicotine is the substance like caffeine. If you don't like it then you should ban nicotine patches, and should ban nicotine gum. The only reason why don't like it is because it looks like a cigarette and that ticks of people who don't like people having fun. There's no second-hand smoke involved. It's a successful bridge to quitting. It is -- it is a wonder drug. And you can (inaudible) of it. And any, anybody who is against it, who is against -- you should be against seat belts and helmets, you're anti-science and you're pro death.
WILLIAMS: Let me just guess --
WILLIAMS: Let me just guess --
WILLIAMS: Is it possible that you vape?
BOLLING: Yes, I do.
WILLIAMS: Oh, oh, I get it.
GUTFELD: It got me to quit, it got me to quit smoking.
WILLIAMS: yeah, but I'm saying -- but you --
GUTFELD: Then what?
WILLIAMS: But you don't think nicotine is addictive?
GUTFELD: It's an addictive like caffeine.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's much more addictive.
GUTFELD: Addictive doesn't make it wrong.
WILLIAMS: OK, but I'm just telling you, I lived with someone --
GUTFELD: You're addicted.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, love. But I must say something --
WILLIAMS: I lived with somebody who smoked, I mean, like a chimney.
GUTFELD: Get that person on vaping immediately.
WILLIAMS: Oh, man.
BOLLING: So, what do you guys both -- can I just say, you're not allowed to smoke on television, right, or ...
GUTFELD: I think so. I think so ...
BOLLING: See, my mind is going to getting all blown apart with his -- with the rules. Go ahead, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, look, you have to let people have personal responsibility to decide, make choices with their life. If they want to drink a big gulp, so, I mean, what are you going to do? Control everything you do with people from, like, birth to death? I mean, that's just not the way this country was founded, or the principles or the freedoms that we fought for.
So, vaping is actually saving lives. So it just counter, you know, intuitive to think that they would try to do something like that.
WILLIAMS: Can I -- let me argue with you for a second.
OK, I'll just be the contrary. It costs the government. It costs all of us when people get sick ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
WILLIAMS: ... and die from smoking cigarettes, it's a tremendous cost. Is that right?
GUTFELD: Yes, but you also save money if people die sooner. The government would actually like to have smoking because they get the taxes from it and you die sooner.
BOLLING: See ...
WILLIAMS: Wow, so the government wants to kill us. It's a death ...
GUTFELD: They love the taxes. They love the taxes.
WILLIAMS: You're just saying, you should give these old people cigarettes.
GUTFELD: They're addicted to taxes.
BOLLING: All right, they are addicted to taxes.
FRANCIS: Let me try and put this ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plastic bags?
FRANCIS: ... in the same direction, yes.
So, New York City, they're going to charge $0.5 cents a bag. They don't want you to take those plastic bags to the grocery store. They're going to try and shame you into not having the bag at checkout. This is completely wrong in my opinion. I use those things until they fall apart. I mean, they're not a waste. They're not -- they're in such shreds when I'm done ...
FRANCIS: ... with them. You can't even recycle them. We use them for everything in my house.
GUILFOYLE: So true.
FRANCIS: Take your shoes and we're going to use them for trash. I mean, I have a newborn baby, you can guess what happens there.
At $0.5 fine, I'll pay $0.5, I was really worried they were going to take my plastic bags away. But what is really hysterical is that they accidentally didn't say where the money was supposed to go to. And I heard some politicians on the radio this morning furious, because the grocery store gets to keep the $0.5. The city isn't getting it. And they were like, "Wait a second, the money should have gone to something important like schools or our (inaudible) fund."
BOLLING: It's going to try and to change your behavior, that's where it's going forward.
FRANCIS: But the grocery store gets to keep it, which is (inaudible).
GUTFELD: But the fact is cloth bags are more harmful because they -- if you don't clean them, you elevate your risk of foodborne illnesses and people die. There's been a spike in ...
GUTFELD: ... death from foodborne illnesses in this area when they switched to cloth.
FRANCIS: They're deadly, cloth bags ...
BOLLING: Let's not forget, though, how many landfills are filled with plastic bags that won't decompose.
FRANCIS: Not ...
BOLLING: And I think that's where they're getting at.
GUTFELD: I think it's beautiful.
GUILFOYLE: Not mine, I mean, we use ours ...
FRANCIS: Well, it's better than foodborne illnesses.
BOLLING: Oh, there you go.
GUTFELD: Not for me.
WILLIAMS: When you go down to the river, you see those plastic bags everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not mine.
BOLLING: (Inaudible). Should parents be punished if their kids are bullies?
Some towns are holding moms and dads of bullies accountable in an effort to stop the epidemic. But will it work? Next.
WILLIAMS: Bullying is a crisis in America, some towns in Wisconsin are trying a new approach to crack down on bullies by fining their parents. Under a new ordinance in the town of Shawano, moms and dads will be warned if police determine their child is bullying another. They'll then have 90 days to address the behavior. But if it continues, they'll have to pay $366 fine.
Here's Shawano's police chief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK KOHL, SHAWANO POLICE CHIEF: Without the parent getting involved, we feel that just giving a ticket or fining someone out of this isn't the answer.
This isn't generated towards the kids being kids, some playground banter. This is the person that is meticulously using social media, or saying things that are vulgar in an attempt to hurt, discredit, and really demean a person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So, Melissa, you're a mom. Let me ask you, do you think that this is real or is this, as we were talking about in the previous segment, government overreaching, getting in the playground?
FRANCIS: Well, so I understand that they're trying to get parents involved in a situation when you have a kid that's misbehaving, you know, maybe they feel like the parents aren't engaged.
Now, the problem that I have is how do you define what bullying is. I mean, it's become one of those catchphrases, anytime you want to call someone that he's a bully, she's a bully, they're bullying me, it gets just thrown around so much now that I'm -- and who is going to sit there and decide this is bullying, so now we're going to go to these people's house and we're going to talk to parents and tell them how to parent their kids.
I think they started out with good intentions, but it's a tough one. I mean, right, seriously, how would they define it?
WILLIAMS: Right, I understand. But they say it's not just playgrounds ...
FRANCIS: No, no, it's cyber bully.
WILLIAMS: ... you know, what they say -- yeah, they're cyber bully, but they also have an increased suicide rate where people -- and they can go back online into social media and see that the child was saying, "I'm being bullied, no one does anything about it, I can't enjoy school. Nobody likes me." What do you do?
GUILFOYLE: Well, you try to intervene at the school level. And you bring the parents in, and you talk to them. You have meetings and, you know, going forward. But you can't allow it to continue, yeah, it's very serious the way children are bullied and it really destroys their self-esteem and ultimately can lead to suicidal ideation and actually carrying it out.
So, it's a very challenging problem, and unfortunately, we see in schools today that it's very prevalent.
But they have a lot of public service campaigns, which I think are very good, announcements out there and, obviously, make available, you know, counseling for anyone who wants it at school to come in and talk. Teachers have to be involved. Parents have to be involved.
WILLIAMS: That's a great push, because one of the arguments is that, in fact, educators are held responsible if they allow bullying to continue. So why not hold parents accountable?
The one other thing I was going to mention to you, is it more prevalent among girls?
GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, I haven't seen all the specific studies on that, but there's always been things like there's movies made about it, right? Mean girls ...
GUILFOYLE: ... or just, you know, girls that are teasing, or excluding others from clubs, that type of thing. But we're seeing it, you know, with boys as well now. So I don't think it's just gender, you know, Isolated or specific.
I mean, fining parents, I don't know, it depends on what the home -- you know, what does the home like? Are the parents encouraging it? Are these parents on trial to determine what level if any, I mean, at a certain point, some parents can't control their kids, that's the hard part.
FRANCIS: But that's what they say the ...
GUILFOYLE: Or broken homes.
FRANCIS: That's what one of the parents said. They said, you know, you come to the door and you tell me, "Oh, you're going to give me a fine." I said, "I already can't control my kid and now you're going to fine me." And no the police officer said, "No, what we say is, we're going to work with you, we're here to talk to you, we want to get your attention, we're going to work with you, and if we come back and you're not helping us and you're not doing the things that we said ...
FRANCIS: ... then we'll fine you." But the idea is to get started.
WILLIAMS: All right, all right, enough on the ladies, enough of these ladies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
WILLIAMS: Let's get some hard, tough men in this conversation. Gregory, they say there's no ...
WILLIAMS: ... evidence that these fines work.
GUTFELD: Oh, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Second of ...
GUTFELD: The one thing is, we keep bringing up the word accountability. There is no accountability when there are no parents.
A child is vulnerable if his dad is not there, or if his mother is not there. And that could be a major, major issue here is that it's a -- the broken family that makes somebody vulnerable. The teachers can't discipline. They don't want to get sued or lose their job. The parents can't discipline because they're not there or they're scared, or they've got dependency issues, so you're headed (ph) with government intrusion that none of us want.
The other aspect of this is where are they learning this behavior? We know this, there is more online adult bullying than anything on the planet. This kind of stuff that people say, social network -- social networks have turned men and women into infantile bullying babies, you get -- I get stuff from 70-year-old men and I'm going like, "What are you doing? Don't you have a family? Shouldn't you be home? Like, you know, tending a garden?" It's the strangest thing to see an adult say really creepy things.
WILLIAMS: Now, you raised a son, you ever come across this?
BOLLING: No, no, no, no, not involved in bullying. But it strikes me that, number one, it has to be predicated on a report, someone is being bullied, right? You can't just arbitrarily say, "Well, I think that's a bullying situation. So, we're going to take those -- that group, that family aside." Someone reports being bullied, you investigate. You find out who the bullies were.
WILLIAMS: Let me ask a quick question, but the police, you want the police in the school?
BOLLING: No, no. No, I didn't say that ...
WILLIAMS: The police ...
BOLLING: Right ...
BOLLING: ... I think that the police should, at least at the very beginning, stay out of it. Let me get to it.
WILLIAMS: Oh, OK.
BOLLING: My point is that, so a bullied person says, "I'm being bullied at school." They go to the administrators, the administrators bring their parents in, parents have to be involved, or forgetting (ph).
And as Greg points out, sometimes they're not available. So this will be justice administered inconsistently at best.
WILLIAMS: All right.
BOLLING: Hold on. And last thought, take action. Warn the family, warn the kid, you're going to be suspended. You're going to whatever.
WILLIAMS: Whatever they do, (inaudible).
BOLLING: Yeah, and that's going to stop there. You can't fine the parents for the actions of a child, like you just can't do it.
WILLIAMS: Wow, that's a tough one.
Next, she was the object of drug lord El Chapo's desire. And she, ultimately, led to his downfall. Geraldo is here, next to tell us about his special airing this weekend with Mexican actress Kate Del Castillo. Stay tuned.
FRANCIS: There is a big special premiering tomorrow night on Fox News Channel at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, it is called Beauty and the Beast, When Kate met Chapo.
Geraldo Rivera host that, he got a one on one with the actress who became the obsession of Mexican drug lord, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, Kate Del Castillo. That obsession ultimately led to his recapture. The two became pen pals, exchanging flirtatious text messages while Chapo was in prison. Here's the clip of Del Castillo talking about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, WHEN KATE MET CHAPO: They become text pals, expressing mutual affection and the idea of a film to immortalize the imprisoned kingpin, who is desperate to meet the actress.
Now, how worried were you that those communications were being intercepted?
KATE DEL CASTILLO, MEXICAN ACTRESS: I was probably just stupid and too na<ve. But I thought that if he is the one who was being, you know, who's on the run and he is the one who's giving me how to communicate with him, I thought it was secure that he knew what he was doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCIS: More now from the Beauty and the Beast host himself, Geraldo is here. Let me ask you the most important question of all.
RIVERA: Can I just say one thing first? This is Bolling's nightmare. He's got Juan Williams on one side and ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah.
RIVERA: He's going to call security.
FRANCIS: That was good. That was -- so, is she stunning in person? Isn't that what everybody -- isn't that what you're wondering?
RIVERA: She is stunning, and what it's stunning is how reckless the obsession made the world's most wanted man. If -- you know, that El Chapo is called the Osama bin Laden of the drug trade. He was the world's most wanted fugitive. Millions of dollars and reward, the entire Mexican military apparatus is searching for him, the American DEA is searching for him and he's texting with the object of his affection that he fell in love with, watching her on this soap opera.
FRANCIS: It was love, is that what that was?
RIVERA: I don't know love, but it certainly was obsession. It really was.
GUTFELD: I had the same thing with Erica Kane.
FRANCIS: Can we pay more attention with the role? I want to ask Geraldo this question. Play that sound bite if you don't mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERA: El Chapo walks you from the table to your room. You must have been thinking, during that walk, that this man wants to make love to me.
CASTILLO: Yes, I thought that he -- I mean, I thought that he could do whatever he wanted to do. We were by ourselves. You know, actually, he's holding my arm. You know, it was for me, good because I thought I was going to faint.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCIS: It's like a soap opera. And only you would say, he wanted to make love to you.
RIVERA: Sure. But, you know, I -- the reason I ...
FRANCIS: Oh, we're going right to that ...
RIVERA: Yeah, in the movie King Kong, first Fay Wray and then Jessica Lange and then Naomi Watts. The gorilla is caught because of its obsession with the beauty.
RIVERA: So he had this beast, the savage drug dealer, ruthless, mass murdering drug dealer, slaughtering people, cutting off people's head to get the monopoly on the drug trade. He has poisoned New England and the Mid-Atlantic and the Upper Midwestern states with heroin. We're seeing overdoses like never before. So he's this ruthless, savage man being hunted by the entire apparatus of the Mexican and U.S. government. And he's texting because he loved her. So what is it? It is beauty killed the beast just as in the King Kong movie, beauty killed the beast.
BOLLING: So I want to know if El Chapo -- has he been extradited to the U.S., number one. And number two, have you heard from him?
RIVERA: I have not heard from him. I don't expect to, because he is in super, supermax now. He has 24/7 -- he has someone in the cell with him, they change -- they wake him up every two hours to make sure it's him, if someone is in the cell with him now. They don't trust anybody.
BOLLING: In Mexico.
RIVERA: The Mexican government is in the process of abiding by an extradition order. But here is the news. I believe and my sources tell me that they are negotiating a plea deal where he'll get life imprisonment, no possibility of parole, in a U.S. supermax probably in Colorado. But he will come make the deal right here in New York in the eastern district, Brooklyn.
There are six or seven federal districts under which he has multiple indictments ranging from mass murder to, obviously, drug conspiracies, et cetera. I think the deal made, I think that you'll see him in weeks. And, you know, I don't know if we'll ever hear from him per se. But I think that El Chapo is history because, why was he caught?
Maybe he would have been caught anyway. But there's no doubt that they traced him by these text messages.
FRANCIS: Guys, (inaudible).
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, how does she feel about him today? Did she feel some kind of affection or ...
RIVERA: What a great question, that is a great question. I think, Kimberly, that it's fair to say that she had mixed feelings when he was recaptured. When he escaped, she was elated in terms of the text messages that we saw. I think that she understands how -- what a savage he is. She tried to get El Chapo to give some of his proceeds to help the victims of his crimes. She wanted some good to come of it.
Now, that he is caught, I think she fears for her own life. And she's afraid she can never go back to Mexico, because the Mexican government wants to indict her, not so the United States government feels she's done ...
WILLIAMS: Where does she live?
RIVERA: She is a Mexican citizen who became an American citizen within weeks. She lives in Southern California, very near where we did the ...
WILLIAMS: And she'll still an actress?
FRANCIS: OK, wait, Greg, Greg.
RIVERA: I don't know.
RIVERA: I'm trying to get her killed. I don't know.
GUTFELD: You know, I feel -- I almost feel sympathy for El Chapo. It seems like her love was as empty as Al Capone's vault.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was ...
GUTFELD: I wanted to sneak it in. But I -- you know, did she have any feelings for him? I -- maybe I'm a romantic.
RIVERA: Well, you know, look at the Charles Manson.
RIVERA: Charles Manson had people that adored him. Don Gotti -- John Gotti ...
RIVERA: ... the Don (ph), the tough one Don (ph) people, you know, there is an attraction among certain people for the outlaw. They see them as Robin Hood despite their savage crimes. So I think that he ...
RIVERA: ... certainly has fans.
FRANCIS: We got to go, I can't wait to watch it.
BOLLING: When is it? 8:00 tomorrow.
FRANCIS: One more thing ...
FRANCIS: There it is, look, right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there, right there, 8:00 tomorrow night.
GUTFELD: OMP, Eric.
BOLLING: OK, Sunday is, guess what, is Mother's Day. I just want to wish a happy Mother's Day to Kimberly and Melissa and my lovely wife ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, (inaudible).
BOLLING: ... Adrienne, and all you guys out there, go get your wife and your mother something nice. Get her some chocolate or flowers or something. Just do something nice. At least pick up the phone if it's your mom.
GUTFELD: Mine's dead.
BOLLING: Mine, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
WILLIAMS: Folks do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was mine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow, (inaudible).
GUTFELD: I couldn't resist.
WILLIAMS: All right, all right.
So, North Carolina, only North Carolina, Beyonce is singing to a sold-out concert. You can't get a ticket. Tickets are like $100 to $1,000 a piece. And then, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: That's right. George Papageorgiou, 66, says he's a big Beyonce fan, but the acoustics weren't that great. And so he just sat there and pulled out a book. He was reading.
Another concertgoer, Michelle Gardner said, "You know what? I took this shot." But when she took the shot, the video went viral. People get a big kick out of a 66-year-old at the Beyonce concert reading ...
BOLLING: And you know what he's reading?
WILLIAMS: What was he reading?
BOLLING: We the People.
WILLIAMS: I hope so.
FRANCIS: Well played.
GUTFELD: K. G.
GUILFOYLE: I'll tell you what, he should have been reading Cheyrl Casone's new book called, The Comeback", how today's moms reenter the workplace successfully most. And I know a little bit about this.
FRANCIS: There you go.
GUILFOYLE: OK. I don't think you were her intended audience. But anyway. But, Cheryl being, obviously, a business expert and she has amazing interviews with women who actually are very candid, sharing their successes, their failures, their trials, their tribulations in trying to do this and being able to have it all and make it all work by being loving and giving to your family and so being able to have a career at work.
So, well done, Cheryl, and hope you guys go out there and get the book.
GUTFELD: Oh, and I have to read this text I just got, because I feel bad.
This is from Kathie Lee Gifford. "Your mom may be gone, but she's still looking out for you and so am I, and so is Jesus. Love you."
FRANCIS: That is nice.
WILLIAMS: Oh, Kathie Lee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Mother's Day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy Mother's Day, Kathie Lee.
GUTFELD: All right, Greg Gutfeld Show tomorrow, I got Gavin McInnes and Cheryl Casone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
GUTFELD: Brad Thor, oh, it's going to be Brad Thor versus Gavin over Trump, this is going to be scary.
And, I have an article, from my first article, in opinion.fox.com, it is about Trump. It's called Trump is a sports car, the rest are school buses. It's kind of like what Eric said about also takeover. It's an interesting piece.
And now, to Melissa, you're last.
FRANCIS: Oh, yeah, well, I kind of deserve to be last for this one, because it's a little gut-wrenching, that KFC making nail polish. In case like you're in a (inaudible) and you eat is real. So if you really feel like finger licking good chicken but you are on a diet, you're not going to have to paint your nails. Look at this, two flavors, original and hot and spicy. McCormick works with Ogilvy & Mather to develop this. No, it's real. I know that this is wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's wrong.
FRANCIS: It's definitely wrong. What do you think, Kimberly?
GUILFOYLE: I think that people might chew their nails off or something.
FRANCIS: I guess, yes.
GUILFOYLE: Right. Honestly, just ...
FRANCIS: We're nail biters.
BOLLING: Don't they make nail polish that taste bad so that you don't bite ...
BOLLING: ... your own nail.
WILLIAMS: Maybe it's for vegetarians.
BOLLING: Wait, is it like a lollipop?
GUTFELD: Get your DVRs. Never miss an episode of The Five. That's it for us. Have a great weekend. "Special Report" is up next.
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