Hacker claims to have breached Clinton's server twice

'The Five' weighs in on what this could mean for the DOJ investigation, 2016 race


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 5, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Hillary Clinton insists she didn't put America's security in jeopardy with her use of a private e-mail server as secretary of state. She was questioned about the investigation again this week.


ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Have you been contacted or have your representatives been contacted by the FBI to set up an interview?


MITCHELL: No contacts there?


MITCHELL: Any indication that your private server was hacked by foreign hackers?

CLINTON: No, not at all.


PERINO: Not at all?


PERINO: Not quite. At least, according to a Romanian hacker, who goes by the name Guccifer, he said he easily and repeatedly broke into the secretary's server in early 2013. In an exclusive interview, Fox's own Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge spoke with him on the phone from a Virginia jail where he's awaiting trial for cybercrimes.



MARCEL LEHEL "GUCCIFER" LAZAR, ROMANIAN COMPUTER HACKER: No, for me it was easy. It was easy for me, for everybody.

HERRIDGE: Mrs. Clinton's team says they put security on the server. Is that what you found?

LAZAR: No, you know when somebody tells that, we put security on the server. OK, you had that server like up for five years, OK? Are you sure that in those five years you had security second by second?

HERRIDGE: And how many times did you access the Clinton server, Marcel?

LAZAR: I say like, twice because for me it was not at interest at the time. I was not -- not paying attention. For me it was not like the Hillary Clinton server. It was like an e-mail server she and others were using with political voting stuff.


PERINO: If her server was breached, Judge Napolitano thinks that she will be indicted.


JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST FOR FOX NEWS CHANNEL: She really needs to stop being in a state of denial, because her legal situation is perilous.

MATT MURRAY, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL DEPUTY EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Judge, you think if they found hacking, if they can demonstrate hacking, would that make it harder for them not to charge her.


MURRAY: . if they (inaudible) that one?

NAPOLITANO: It would make it nearly impossible for them not to charge her.


PERINO: In a statement, the Clinton campaign denies the hacker's claims, calling them baseless, and no government agency has notified them about Clinton server being compromised. So, more intrigue on this Kimberly, can you explain further what Judge Napolitano is saying that this is extremely serious and he thinks that it has to go to the next step.

GUILFOYLE: It is. And if it is true, and in fact, he was able to breach her server and be able to get access to confidential communications, it would violate national security and put people at risk. I mean, this is significant. It really establish as prima facie case against her. So this is the type of information that exactly the justice department, the FBI should be looking at. It really establishes, because (inaudible), you don't have to prove that she had the specific intent or to willfully violate or be reckless, you know, with it. You're just not supposed to do what she did. This is evidence that it was breached. And as we sit here right now, do we really know exactly what information that he was able to get access to? Who knows? And this is all during that time as well, during Benghazi, during Chris Stevens, when you're privy to all of that confidential communication, access, location, timetables, scheduling, anything in terms of travel and what, you know, different diplomats around the world are doing it where they're stationed, their movement.

PERINO: Can I ask you one more thing which is, because he's on awaiting trial for something else.


PERINO: Like, so he is considered a criminal. How much credence or credibility do you think he has as a witness?

GUILFOYLE: Well, look, I mean if he was to come forward, you can have a credibility or believability of the witnesses. But guess what, the proof is in the pudding. If he actually provides or proffers evidence to show in some kind of deal the access that he had and the information he was able, because it's multiple entries that he was able to gain access to, and including Sidney Blumenthal, as well, which we know was one of the person, the main reason that this became exposed. That she was going back and forth and consulting him on these high-level matters to get, quote, "advice," although she said she didn't take it from him as a directive, but perhaps was using it in sort of the framework in her decision-making.

PERINO: I've got to say Eric, as a communications person, every time I see her answering some of these questions, I feel like she's on a high wire without a net. And I wonder if you think that, you know, if all of this stuff is going to end up, actually hurting her, will she get off scot-free?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: The problem is it's taking so long. I mean, this is going to draw well-beyond November where we'll either have a vice president or a president Hillary Clinton or we won't. If we do, then she may be indicted after she's president. It would be just crazy, crazy time.


PERINO: That would be terrible.

BOLLING: The most important thing here, though, is -- and I'm not sure that we haven't talked about this quite a few times before that, intent isn't even a factor here. She doesn't even have do intend to be negligent. If she's just negligent and leaks top-secret information, she's --

GUILFOYLE: She's not.

BOLLING: She's likely criminally.


BOLLING: . liable, right. So she should go --

PERINO: Just like anybody that has the top-secret (inaudible).

BOLLING: She should be at least indicted. If not, go to jail for doing it - right. It's -- again, here's the old, here's the old example, if you have a top-secret document in this folder, go to the bar, have a drink with someone, leave the folder on the bar, accidentally walk out and that leaks, you're criminally negligent and you will, you will go to jail.


BOLLING: . for something like that. That's basically what she did. She left the top-secret information on a server that was getting hacked repeatedly by Guccifer. And by the way, you're right, he is up for trial. We may have only 10 percent of what he actually did, so he doesn't want to get anymore trouble. But by doing so, she left, basically left the folder on the bar of Del Frisco's over there. And who knows what they have.

GUILFOYLE: But don't think he won't try and work out a deal and have usually the hackers they have a file that's like a get out of jail free file that has so much information in it that you're like, OK, let's talk.

PERINO: What do you think, Juan?


PERINO: Where there's smoke, there's fire?

WILLIAMS: I love, I love this conspiracy theory. I'm sitting here thinking, wow, this is great. I'm gonna write a novel. This is unbelievable. First of all, this guy totally, totally lacking in credibility, by the way, he says he only -- he said he hacked in two times in five years because it really wasn't of interest.

PERINO: He said it was boring.

WILLIAMS: That's what he said. So, all of a sudden, you guys who are sitting here saying, oh yeah, I bet they were in there and they got information about Benghazi, another conservative --

GUILFOYLE: Well, you know --

PERINO: We know that they had --

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, gee. And he also says he hacked Colin Powell. Get Colin Powell in the jail cell with her, you know. And then of course Fox, not only Fox, but the Clinton campaign says, we don't believe this, we have no way to verify this guy, we have no evidence that he actually did it. He goes by the name -- Greg is going to explode on this. He goes by the name Guccifer. What is this? Is he Lucifer? Is he the devil?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I don't know.


WILLIAMS: And this is what we're sitting here discussing?

GUILFOYLE: Stretching.

WILLIAMS: Holy molly.


PERINO: Blow a gasket over his name?

GUTFELD: No, not at all. I find this whole thing refreshing. You know, usually it's Bill breaching a server.


GUTFELD: You know, what's amazing is that this guy --

BOLLING: Repeatedly.

GUTFELD: Repeatedly, unlawful, gaining entry. You know this guy is known as a hacktivist (ph), OK? That's one step above being a juggler at a children's birthday party.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

GUTFELD: He is not a pro, he's an amateur. He's like Geraldo on "Dancing with the Stars." And he --

GUILFOYLE: Boo. You're mean.

GUTFELD: And he attacked Hillary. This -- this is almost, you know, he's our hero, because he showed how easy it is to make national security e- mails vulnerable. And -- but we have to define what hacking is, because we think it's some kind of nefarious, mysterious thing. He's basically searching passwords that based on your background. He figures out your security questions. Hillary's password was probably, you know, Billcigar100. He took him like a hundred -- 50 guesses, he got in. And this is -- it's a lesson for everybody, including myself that you've got to be changing your passwords. It's not as hard as you think. And, I mean, the Democratic Party, they got -- do they have a back-up here? Have they talked to Biden about this? You know, every NFL team has a back-up quarterback in case somebody gets injured. Even if it's Johnny Manziel bring somebody in...

PERINO: Well --

GUTFELD: . because they're going to be -- if something happens, there may be like nobody thought Trump was going to be the nominee, except for Eric, but nobody is saying, nobody is saying that he's going to get indicted. It's the same --

PERINO: Except for Eric --

GUTFELD: It's the same odds.

GUILFOYLE: No, but there's --


GUTFELD: It's the same odds.

GUILFOYLE: There's other information.

GUTFELD: It could happen.

GUILFOYLE: There's other information that's coming to light from sources saying that, in fact, this could be happening and that's another reason why...

GUTFELD: That's my point.

GUILFOYLE: . Bernie Sanders is staying in, but --

GUTFELD: Oh, they got to get Biden.

GUILFOYLE: There were 10 other unique IP addresses that people who had access to this server. Who are those people? I mean, this was like loosey- goosey, anybody was in.

GUTFELD: Loosey-Guccifer.

WILLIAMS: Can I, can I introduce.

GUILFOYLE: You know it.

WILLIAMS: . just a little bit touch of reality --


WILLIAMS: I don't want to disrupt this. But it's actually trouble for Hillary Clinton.


WILLIAMS: Because you have a federal judge now saying that her aides in the state department officials must testify, go along with.


WILLIAMS: . inquiry by judicial watch. That's real.


WILLIAMS: Now that's real. They're going to have to testify. And I think people like Huma Abedin have already been interviewed by the FBI in their separate inquiry.

PERINO: So forget about the staffer who got immunity.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that was the e-mail, the internet server guy, right?

BOLLING: But you know what happens when he did this, when he opens this up, the investigation wider, the staffers and e-mails of staffers.


BOLLING: You find more stuff. You find stuff that may not -- have anything to do with the state department, other than unless they were using the state department.


BOLLING: . Hillary Clinton to do, to somehow ingratiate the Clinton Foundation with funds.


BOLLING: . from foreign governments.


BOLLING: . foreign companies.


GUILFOYLE: Pinning the tail on the donkey, that's what happen.

BOLLING: That's what you do. You start an investigation, sometimes it leads you down a different rabbit hole and you find something that really matters. And I think that's where the meat is.


BOLLING: Not with the state department, but with the Clinton Foundation.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you mean, so it's not with this guy who has no credibility. And it's not with --

BOLLING: It may or may not be.

WILLIAMS: It's not --

BOLLING: Correct.

WILLIAMS: It's not even the email.


WILLIAMS: . but it's the foundation.

BOLLING: It may or may not be.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, but I'm just saying, at this point, it's like you know what, the Republican Party is so worried about Hillary Clinton. They're just praying for rain. They're just praying that something happens. Can something please --

BOLLING: That is not --

GUTFELD: No, actually, I want her to stay in.

BOLLING: And pouring rain is what it's been, Juan.

WILLIAMS: You think it's pouring rain?

BOLLING: She's hoping the rain stops, yeah.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

BOLLING: Yeah, between the server, the accusations with the Clinton Foundation -- all the things that are going on in her world that this scandal after scandal. She just wants it all to go away.

WILLIAMS: That's why --

BOLLING: . as you do.

WILLIAMS: That's why -- as I do? I'm just -- I would like people to just look at reality. The woman has gotten more votes than even Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Juan, the great thing is if she stays in and this e-mail thing gets worse, the terrible thing is if she gets out and they bring Biden in who would win in a landslide. By the way --

PERINO: But why wouldn't they go for Bernie?

GUTFELD: Because Bernie -- Bernie is a socialist, come on.

PERINO: I mean --

GUTFELD: We would still have to live. You borrow Juan's terms; we need to live in the real world here.

WILLIAMS: That's work awhile.

GUTFELD: We're not going to elect a socialist. But you know, neither side of this, of the political spectrum has, has addressed the hazards of this actual story or anything that's in modern -- in the realm of modern technology, whether it is vulnerable e-mail or Artificial Intelligence or automation or robotics and how this is go to affect our lives going forward. Nobody has. And it's about time one of these candidates actually starts discussing the realities. For example, it's not going to be Mexico or China stealing our jobs, it's going to be automation. We have to look at the hazards of Artificial Intelligence in the next 20 or 30 years.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

GUTFELD: . that's going to change the world. We have to talk about the fact that terror is being married to technology. That people can go and buy drones and they could --

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

GUTFELD: . any kind of chemical or biological weapon on it. We need to have somebody talking about that other than crackpots like me.

BOLLING: Can I ask you Juan, one more question?

GUILFOYLE: It was the most same thing you've ever said.

BOLLING: Does it not bother you even the slightest amount that Hillary Clinton claimed there were no top-secret e-mails on that server, and we found 22 of the highest level of classification.

WILLIAMS: But we've been, we've been --

BOLLING: . hundreds of the --

GUILFOYLE: No, but --

BOLLING: Still classified. So she's clearly lied about that fact.

WILLIAMS: No. That's what we thought --

BOLLING: That doesn't bother you.


WILLIAMS: First of all, it would bother me. Anybody lying, but if - but what she said was that this was classified as secret or top-secret or --

BOLLING: Does she's smart enough to know.


BOLLING: . that information.


WILLIAMS: OK, that's -- but that's the argument. I mean, go ahead, Dana.

PERINO: Why is -- I think that's a real dodge.

WILLIAMS: There you go. But that's --

PERINO: It is classified upon --

WILLIAMS: But Dana, you know that's --


PERINO: It's classified upon the e-mail -- upon the moment that you.

GUTFELD: It's like (inaudible) though.


PERINO: . type it in or that you forward it on. And it also is against President Obama's executive order.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

PERINO: Which, again, she put him in a terrible position.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, literally.

PERINO: We got to move on. Clinton is aggressively going after Trump, now that he's the presumptive GOP nominee. Her new attack ad and his warning for her -- that's next.


GUILFOYLE: While she is still battling Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton is focused on taking out Donald Trump. Her strategy, letting his GOP opponents and critics make the case for her.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am a unifier. We're gonna be a unified party.



GEORGE PATAKI, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK: Donald Trump is the know- nothing candidate.

TED CRUZ, TEXAS SENATOR: Donald is a bully.

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: He would not be the commander-in-chief we need to keep our country safe.

LINDSEY GRAHAM, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA SENATOR: This guy is so unfit to be commander-in-chief.

ROMNEY: His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America the world less safe.

TRUMP: I bring people together.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, Trump doesn't seem too concerned, though, because he says he's ready to fight fire with fire if he has to.


TRUMP: If she wants to go the low road, I'm fine with that and if she wants to go the high road, which probably I would prefer, I would be fine with that.



O'REILLY: You're fine with the low road? Most people don't want to go on the low road.

TRUMP: No, I can handle the low road if I have to do it. I mean, we've had some low roads over the last few months.

O'REILLY: Really?

TRUMP: I'm fine with it if we have to go that direction.


GUILFOYLE: Low road, high road, all good. I'm looking at you.

GUTFELD: I know you're looking at me. You don't even have to say my name any more. I knew it was me.

GUILFOYLE: I prefer not to, yeah.

GUTFELD: it's good -- I love O'Reilly asking Trump if he's prepared to take the low road. That's like asking Snoop Dogg if he's prepared to get stoned. He didn't just take the low road; he plowed it, he paved it, he installs street lights.

GUILFOYLE: He built that?

GUTFELD: He (inaudible), he built the low road. I mean, do we remember what happened on Tuesday? I mean, yes. He linked a candidate's dad to killing JFK. It's amazing.

BOLLING: All the times you repeating an article he read.



GUTFELD: Thank you. Thank you. The best part about it is Hillary is so clueless, she doesn't realize that these ads are Trump's highlight reel. They don't, they don't, they don't drive people away from Trump which -- when they take all the stuff. You find yourself laughing through it. It's funny, so you kind of, you go yeah, yeah, I like the guy. It's not. They have to find another alternative.

GUILFOYLE: So it's not working?

GUTFELD: Oh no, that this will -- this will not hurt Trump.

GUILFOYLE: This is far too enjoyable.


GUILFOYLE: . is what you're saying? OK.

GUTFELD: It's a comedy.

PERINO: I disagree --


PERINO: I disagree that I don't think that the ad was aimed at Trump supporters.


PERINO: The ad was aimed at her supporters.

GUTFELD: Which --

PERINO: . to solidify her base. That helps her --

GUTFELD: But there's always --

PERINO: . turn out her base.

GUTFELD: If their base -- if it's your base, there already there.

PERINO: Not necessary -- you got -- she's got work to do. She's got to prove that she's willing to take him on, and their -- the reasons that they want to, first, they need -- she needs them to want to vote for her and to want to vote against him. So I -- the audience I think is different. That ad was not meant to persuade anybody who's .


PERINO: . already for Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: I respectfully disagree.

PERINO: I will -- I disagree with you.

GUILFOYLE: All right, moving quite around the table. Go ahead, Bolling.

BOLLING: Oh, this will be a low-road election.


BOLLING: It's a low road.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: I mean Donald Trump definitely went the low road.


BOLLING: . but it was --


BOLLING: It was paid with gold for him. Once he tried it out and again, he says he counterpunches, so he lets someone else take the first shot.


BOLLING: . and then he hits that low road with the, like the autobahn, like a highway, you know, and just pedal to the metal. He's gonna get there and at some point, she's going to do it. They're gonna raise a billion dollars, they gonna start attacking him, they always do. The Clintons are that way, that's how they win, that's how they politic. And once they do, Trump's gonna go at her and it is going to be the most phenomenal six months of television history in our lives --

GUTFELD: Godzilla versus King Kong.

PERINO: It is true.


GUTFELD: I don't know which is which.



BOLLING: But low road definitely benefits Donald Trump. He just -- he owns it. He owns it.


BOLLING: Look, you may not -- it works. If it's working, it's small ball and baseball.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: If a small ball is working for you, stay with small ball.

WILLIAMS: Small ball.

BOLLING: But move the player, runner over to second.

WILLIAMS: No. This is --

BOLLING: Fly ball to right, score --

GUILFOYLE: No, he's --

WILLIAMS: Fight her upcoming in the second.

GUILFOYLE: But he is right. I agree.

BOLLING: Play what works.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no.



WILLIAMS: Well let me just say --

GUILFOYLE: He's quite comfortable with it, it worked for him. He's like 16- 0, like K.O., so that's the deal.

WILLIAMS: Wow. I don't know about that Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Meaning, being him.

WILLIAMS: I'm just -- look. In fact, it brings me to my thought about this, which is the news of the day.


WILLIAMS: . it's Paul Ryan.



WILLIAMS: The speaker of the House says he can't support Trump right now. The news of the day is what's going on inside the Republican Party. The party is breaking apart. And that so you have George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, they say you know what, we're staying out of this. We got nothing to do. Mitt Romney, you know where he is, right? OK.

BOLLING: The party is not breaking apart, though, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, it's not.

BOLLING: No, no.


BOLLING: Because they were never on the Trump bandwagon.

WILLIAMS: Oh. I'm sorry. There was already --

BOLLING: Oh not --

WILLIAMS: The civil war is already that's going on.

BOLLING: You just named the name George Bush, both Bush's. Mitt Romney, John McCain.

WILLIAMS: Paul Ryan.

BOLLING: Paul Ryan, Ben Sachs, these people were never --

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on.

BOLLING: They would never involve there on the outside.


BOLLING: I'm sorry -- they were the insiders all along.

WILLIAMS: When Lindsey Graham says.

BOLLING: And Trump on the outside.

WILLIAMS: . this man plays racism, xenophobia and he's a bigot, you think - - hmm, quote on Dana's point, I wonder what that independent suburban white woman who decides American elections is thinking.

BOLLING: Well, if she's thinking about the economy, and jobs.


BOLLING: . and money, and safety and security. She may (inaudible) --

WILLIAMS: Oh, safety and security?

BOLLING: Yeah, yeah.



WILLIAMS: Put Donald Trump's finger on the bomb?

BOLLING: She may let go for Donald Trump over Hillary.

WILLIAMS: That will help my kids out.

GUILFOYLE: And better than Hillary controlling the server.

BOLLING: Absolutely better.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Blow it up.

GUILFOYLE: And pushing the video.

WILLIAMS: Blow it up. Blow it up.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Juan. I can see we're not going to come to terms on this, so moving right along. Do you have a follow-up, Dana?

PERINO: No, I just think that for one, I think George H.W. Bush is 91- years-old, he is retired from politics. So I think that take him off the table if you want to fight with -- about George W. Bush and his decision not to. I think that it is a principled one. Remember, if it's Donald Trump hat suggested that he knew about 9/11, that he knew that there were no WMD and he lied his way into war, and he should have been impeached a as war criminal. I mean, that's pretty hard to overcome. So I think that the fact that he has said he's going to stay out of it.


PERINO: . and not actively work against it, should be commended.

GUILFOYLE: That's Bush high road for you, the family that's --


GUILFOYLE: So that's good. All right, well this went well.

GUTFELD: Did it? No.

GUILFOYLE: I think so.

GUTFELD: Let's have a review during the break. Shall we?

GUILFOYLE: Pretty good.


GUILFOYLE: Pretty satisfied.

GUTFELD: One to five.

GUILFOYLE: And in fact, it is.

GUTFELD: . what would you have given, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Still to come, five --

GUTFELD: Well, there you go.

GUILFOYLE: Still to come, the Fastest 7 featured a phone call between Donald Trump and President Obama. You'll want to listen in. Stay tuned.


WILLIAMS: There's an assault on free speech on a lot of college campuses in America, Virginia Tech now coming under scrutiny for rescinding a speaking invitation to conservative "Wall Street Journal" Columnist Jason Riley. Riley was initially asked to give a lecture on campus, but he says he was disinvited over concerns there could be protests over his appearance. Jason Riley sounded it off on "The Kelly File" last night.


JASON RILEY, "WALL STREET JOURNAL" COLUMNIST: Liberals still think there's a certain way that black people are supposed to think about issues in this country, and nowhere is that notion more vigorously enforced than on our college campuses today. If I went out there and gave speeches about how the Black Lives Matter movement is doing great things for this country or how you know, every problem in black America can be blamed on white racism, I think Virginia Tech would have welcomed me with open arms.


WILLIAMS: Today, the president of Virginia Tech, Timothy Sands, put out a statement saying there was confusion, two different faculty members invited different speakers without each other's knowledge. They apologized to Jason Riley for the error in judgment, and now they've reinvited Jason Riley to come speak at Virginia Tech. The school says it's committed to free speech and civil discourse. So what do you think, Greg, do you believe this?

GUTFELD: Oh, he should turn it down, definitely.

PERINO: Exactly now --

GUTFELD: Screw you. I'm done. But really, you know this isn't about, this isn't about free speech. It's all -- or banning speech. It's about banning only certain kinds of speech that students find micro-aggressive against their safe spaces.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: And they want to, they want to get rid of a standard which is generally the first step towards fascism. Once you don't have any standards, you know, and he -- free speech, it just becomes anarchy and people can just take over in other areas. Social justice robots are scared of black men who think for themselves. I think what we need is a safe space exchange where we take all of these frightened little students, and we send them to a country where it's really dangerous, and then we bring all of these refugees from Syria who needs a place to stay and they can stay in the Harvard dorms and everyone will be happy.

GUILFOYLE: And learn.

GUTFELD: And they can learn and everybody can know what a safe space is.

WILLIAMS: Well, do you buy the argument that Timothy Sands, the president of Virginia Tech made, that in fact, listen, you know there were different invitations made. And apparently, Charles Murray had spoken on campus at this BB&T lecture series, right, and for the finance department at Virginia Tech. And there was a big reaction against Charles Murray, including President Sands writing that Charles Murray's book had been used as justification for racism, for Eugenics and the like. And that stir up a whole another (inaudible). So they said we're just trying to avoid dealing with these conservatives like Jason Riley and Charles Murray.

PERINO: So Sands is concerned about a book that Charles Murray wrote in 1985, he's actually a co-writer. He wasn't even a researcher.

GUTFELD: "The Bell Curve."


PERINO: You know its "The Bell Curve."


PERINO: I mean -- and Charles Murray then -- has since written a book called "Coming Apart," it was three years ago, (inaudible) me. It was accurate and I recommend it to everybody. I think it's admirable that these guys even, are willing go to these schools. Do I buy their excuse that the two teachers passed messages? Not really. I'm surprised they didn't blame an intern. This not unusual --


PERINO: And Jason Riley is the one, like the most mild guy you can -- you see him there, the way that he speaks, the way he talks. I mean, every student at GW would be smart to follow Jason Riley on Twitter, follow his columns in "The Wall Street Journal."

GUILFOYLE: Oh, true.

PERINO: He is so thoughtful and smart.

GUTFELD: Even Harry Reid would like him.


GUTFELD: That's a throwback.

PERINO: I think so.

WILLIAMS: You know, I just want to --

GUILFOYLE: He's fantastic.


WILLIAMS: You know why, Eric? I'm gonna tell you something.

PERINO: Because you --

WILLIAMS: . that I think Jason Riley is so right on: that black people who do not toe the line in terms of ideology -- and here I'm thinking not just of Jason Riley. I'm thinking of Justice Thomas, right? I'm thinking of people like Armstrong Williams.

BOLLING: Any conservative African-American.


PERINO: Condi Rice.


BOLLING: Any conservative African-American not toting the line.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That's what I'm saying. I think that...

GUTFELD: Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, I'm not in there, but I think there's a penalty to be paid...


GUTFELD: Juan became a victim of political correctness.

WILLIAMS: That's right. Yes, yes.

BOLLING: I mean...

WILLIAMS: I am far too conservative. Not at this table, thank God.

GUILFOYLE: No. Not with us.

BOLLING: Can I do a little assessment?

WILLIAMS: Go ahead.

BOLLING: So liberal academia has become the bastion of liberalism where they demand diversity of color, diversity of culture, diversity of gender. But they crush diversity of spoken opinion. Not written opinion necessarily, but spoken opinion.

It's bizarre that Jason Riley wouldn't be allowed to speak or whatever or some of the other people...

GUILFOYLE: Open your mind.

BOLLING: ... that recently Rutgers with Condoleezza Rice and whatnot. Pulled back these speakers. They'll allow it written in newspapers, in school publications. They don't want him to speak. And for some reason it just makes absolutely no sense.

GUTFELD: There's some students that have gotten -- that have gotten in trouble. Student newspapers. They'll write something...

WILLIAMS: I've got to go to Kimberly. No, no, I've got to go to Kimberly, because we're running out of time. But Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: I spoke recently at Cornell, right? And that's the third most liberal university in the country. I was extremely well received there. They gave a nice speech ahead of time to say, "Listen, respect freedom of speech, the speaker's viewpoint. Listen, if you have questions." There was no protest. It was handled very well by the school. So there's positive experiences that can be had.

And if you're at a university, the whole point of getting an education is to listen and learn. You know, you might learn something if you listen to the other side.

GUTFELD: Could you see male protesters trying to stop Kimberly from speaking? They would go "Let's let her talk for a little while." Like, all those angry militants. Maybe she has something to say.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And then get pictures with me after.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: But you know, the thing is, there's ideological segregation. Oftentimes, the conservative speakers are only invited by conservative speaker series.

PERINO: Well, that is what happened at Cornell. That's right.

WILLIAMS: And the money -- the money goes to the liberal.

GUILFOYLE: But it was open to the whole school.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, ahead, Hollywood's very biggest hot head has erupted again. Like a volcano. Alec Baldwin does it again. This time it lands him in today's Fastest Seven. The tape next when "The Five" continues.



BOLLING: We have time for...


GRAPHIC: Fastest 7


BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Seven Minutes on Television." Three enticing stories, seven enlivened minutes, one enigmatic host.

First up -- remember that?


BOLLING: OK. First up, hothead Alec Baldwin got up in the face of a photog who had just snapped a picture of his wife, Hilaria. The washed-up actor, in my opinion, a poster boy for anger management classes. Behold this.


ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: You're a piece of trash. You're a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) paparazzi piece of trash. Stay away from my wife, OK? Got that? I said, you got that? Shut up! Stay away from my wife. I said shut up! (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You're a piece of garbage.


BOLLING: I get that a photographer could tick you off, especially if he's taking pictures, but that's a little over-reaction.

GUTFELD: I don't know, you know. He married a yoga instructor, and that's got to be hard. You know, when you're a guy -- he's like tinfoil in a microwave. And like, he's got to probably hold it in the whole time, because you're married to a yoga instructor.

By the way, here's an interesting philosophy. He shows all of his family pictures on Instagram, his babies and stuff. And I think in his idea he's thinking, if he's giving it away for free, these people have no right to make money off him; and I think he's right. And I think if you -- if somebody is bothering your wife, you don't know how you're going to react. You know?

GUILFOYLE: What would you do?

BOLLING: Or Dana, maybe he's just having a bad day?

PERINO: I don't know. Actually, I thought he was so funny in "30 Rock." I really loved that show; he is great. But I find him so unattractive, and it's because of this stuff. How many "Fastest Sevens"? He's probably had seven "Fastest Sevens" with the same type of things.

GUILFOYLE: We should do a count of that. He's a "Fastest Seven" all-star.

BOLLING: He got into that female FOX reporter's face and just really had some bad language for her.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But Gregory...


WILLIAMS: ... I'm so interested. I mean, first of all, he's always in your "One More Thing" as an animal, I believe.

GUTFELD: Yes, he is, because of his hair...


GUILFOYLE: Also there, too, with Jeremy Piven.

WILLIAMS: But secondly, wouldn't it be a delight to be married to a yoga instructor?

GUTFELD: No, I'm just saying it's -- with a short temper, a short temper, being around somebody calm actually can make you angrier.

WILLIAMS: Because she's so calm.


GUILFOYLE: She's like...

GUTFELD: I speak from experience.

BOLLING: K.G., you want to break the tie?

GUILFOYLE: She's like downward dog, and he's like crouching tiger.


BOLLING: Very good, very good.

BOLLING: I assume that's a yoga term -- a yoga term?

GUILFOYLE: The first one is.

BOLLING: Not the second one?

GUILFOYLE: No, the second one is a movie.

BOLLING: Other than Donald Trump himself, guess who's the most excited that Trump is the GOP nominee? Jimmy Fallon and other late-night comedians. That's who.


JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON" (AS DONALD TRUMP): I'm now the Republican president, and come November, I'm going to be voted Captain America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Congratulations on Indiana.

FALLON: Thank you. I love Indiana, the birthplace of Indiana Jones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't believe it. You actually could be the next president.

FALLON: Believe it. Because now that Ted Cruz dropped out, there's only one man standing in my way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mean John Kasich?

FALLON: No, Hillary.



BOLLING: K.G., the gift that keeps on giving.

GUILFOYLE: No, I love it. And you do remind me, by the way, who was unbelievably funny, was President Obama at the White House. He was, like, the best part of that dinner. He's funny. So that was good, I like it.

WILLIAMS: You know, I think Jimmy Fallon does a good Donald Trump. That's pretty good.

BOLLING: And how about the guy doing Obama? That was pretty good, too.

PERINO: It was pretty good. And I was going to say, that was my take-away is that Jimmy Fallon has improved on his Donald Trump.


PERINO: It served him well.

GUTFELD: You know, the challenge for a lot of these guys is how do you go beyond the object itself? How do you top the real thing? Because Trump is naturally funny.

That's why I think Larry Wilmore tanked so badly, was that his jokes about Trump and Cruz couldn't go beyond Trump and Cruz. Because -- their predicament that they were in, especially Cruz, what was happening to Cruz and what Trump says, Larry Wilmore couldn't -- he wasn't funny compared to them.

BOLLING: They have to bring something else. They've got to bring a little more depth to it, because the huge line is over. Go a little bit, go inside.

WILLIAMS: Eric, what is with Trump's eyes with the -- with the white stuff?

GUTFELD: Sunglasses while golfing?

GUILFOYLE: Juan, where did that come from?

GUTFELD: I wondered, too. It's sunglasses when you're golfing, correct?

WILLIAMS: It's not a spray tan?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: I don't know, either.

GUILFOYLE: Someone call for a commercial break.

BOLLING: No, let's do this first. Baby North goes south now that the travel ban has been lifted. The Kardashian clan touched down in Havana, Cuba, this week. Will the Cubans be able to keep that up? See what I did there? What I did there.

Take a look at these pictures. This is the whole Kardashian clan. There's Khloe down there. There's Kim and...


BOLLING: ... Kanye. And little baby North was there, too. Your thoughts on the Kardashians in Cuba, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I don't even know what to say. I mean, the Cubans will be outraged, I suspect. They may be charmed by the celebrity. But once they realize who these people are, they'll think, "This is capitalism? We're going back. We're going back."

BOLLING: Wow, really?

GUILFOYLE: I think Khloe is, like, the new hottest Kardashian. Yes, that's what's happening.

BOLLING: Going down there?

GUILFOYLE: Seems like it. So there she is, with the blonde hair.

BOLLING: Fairly...

GUTFELD: All right.

BOLLING: OK. All right, Greg. Your thoughts?

GUTFELD: Going to Cuba is the new progressive badge of authenticity. It's like a tofu enema.


GUTFELD: And in order to feel good...

GUILFOYLE: Who does that?

GUTFELD: But in order to feel good about going to Cuba, you have to ignore the sufferings of millions.


GUTFELD: It's just like when the fellow travelers used to go to the Soviet Union back in the '30s. Remember, Cuba is still communist. There is no perestroika. There's no glasnost. The revolution is still rolling over the bones of the dead while they are there. It's disgusting that they're going to this pit of suffering and not actually exposing it. Shame on you, Kardashians.

GUILFOYLE: Same thing as Beyonce and Jay-Z.

BOLLING: Dana, can I -- do you happen to have that cigar picture back? Can you bring that one back?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: Cuban cigars. Dana, have you ever smoked a Cuban cigar?

PERINO: No, I'm going to have to say no. I have not had the pleasure of...

GUTFELD: Look at them.

BOLLING: You don't know what you're missing.

GUTFELD: Doesn't that piss you off?

PERINO: I don't smoke at all. Can I say -- you said better what I was going to say. But it is like all the -- the parade of elites, headed to Cuba, like, "I'm going to be one of the first there, and I'm going to go and do" -- just -- I hope that if you're going to go, pay the workers that you deal with.

GUTFELD: They won't get the money.

PERINO: So pay them -- that's why they have to pay them directly under the table. Because what happens is you give that money to the hotel. The hotel is owned by the government. The government spends -- pays their people in pesos. So while you're there slip them a $100 bill or something like that, because it goes directly to the people, if you're going to go.

GUTFELD: They should stay at Gitmo.

BOLLING: Anyone else have a...

GUILFOYLE: Bolling 2000, you'll do that when you go.

BOLLING: Cuban cigar, ever had one?

WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?

PERINO: That's illegal.

BOLLING: Not if you smoke it in Mexico.

WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?

BOLLING: You can buy Cuban cigars in Mexico.

PERINO: One thing good about Mexico.

GUILFOYLE: Smoke it in Mexico while you're getting engaged.

GUTFELD: They should smoke in a Cuban prison for about three months.

BOLLING: Nothing like a Cuban cigar and a little scotch on the rocks.

WILLIAMS: Amazing.

BOLLING: Up ahead, is Starbucks stiffing its customers? That's what a new lawsuit alleges. That's next on "The Five."


GUTFELD: A federal lawsuit filed in Chicago claims Starbucks jams its drinks with ice, short-changing customers. The suit, brought by a local woman -- hmm -- says Starbucks advertises drinks at 24 ounces, when it's just 14. And this practice has led to the deaths of hundreds of young people in Chicago. I lie. What's killing people in Chicago are gangs, not ice cubes. But ice cubes, I guess, are the evil today.

And so I repeat: A woman is suing Starbucks over ice. In Chicago. This is her life's purpose. Something tells me she might have sued Starbucks if there wasn't enough ice -- though that is speculation, so please strike that from the monologue. I don't want this lady to sue me, either.

The fact is we live at a time where the problem-solver is vanishing. In the old days this you'd just ask for less ice, and then you they'd give it to you, and you'd go on your merry highly-caffeinated way. Not anymore.

Lawsuits help avoid such civil solution, choosing the rigid cold path of legal recourse. After all, being civil is boring and makes no money and it doesn't feel as good. And it's everywhere. Half the commercials on cable are law firms targeting the products in the other half. Have you noticed that? We've created a grievance machine based on demand for restitution and it's sealed off from human reason.

I remember a time when we settled things without a lawyer, but in 2016 that's a tall order. Sorry, grande, no ice.

Hmm, hmm, hmm.

BOLLING: That was a "Hmm, hmm, hmm."

GUTFELD: It was like, yes, whatever. What are you laughing about, little person?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Mean-spirited. Maybe you two are ice...

GUTFELD: What are you? You're not a vente or a grande. You're a tall.


GUTFELD: Do you feel strongly about this?

PERINO: Well, I was going to say, there's a very easy solution at Starbucks. You just say, "Light ice." In all the list of your demands for what you need in your drink.

GUTFELD: You say, "Light ice, baby." What do you think of that?

PERINO: I'm going to try that next time.

I also think that, you know, when you hear statements like that America is becoming a third-world nation, nobody in the third world is worried about this kind of thing.




BOLLING: This is going to go away. This lawsuit is going to go away very quickly.


GUILFOYLE: It's going to melt?

BOLLING: You know why? It's going to melt.

It's the free market.

GUILFOYLE: Dana's Corny Jokes.

BOLLING: If Starbucks puts too much ice in their iced drinks, then you go to Dunkin' Donuts, and eventually, they're going to figure it out, how much ice is the right amount for the customer.

GUILFOYLE: Guess what? You're getting dehydrated. You're getting hydrated, because caffeine can dehydrate you. She actually should be writing Starbucks a thank you note, because you're actually getting more water, which is actually helping you to, like, look refreshed and -- you know.

GUTFELD: When you get too much ice, Kimberly, what do you do? Do you send your assistant all the way back to Starbucks?

GUILFOYLE: It melts the minute it hits my lips, the whole thing just liquefies.

GUTFELD: That is so true, I've seen it happen, Juan. It's like a science project. For a horny seventh grader.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my goodness. Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: Hit the button.

WILLIAMS: ... I was going to say, on Coca-Cola, I actually have to ask people to put more ice in, because I love a Coke that's kind of...


WILLIAMS: ... carbonated over ice. It's terrific.

And at Starbucks, the problem is they put too much coffee in the cups. Sometimes they'll say, "Do you want room for cream, right?"


WILLIAMS: And I think yes, because I don't want to spill it right away. And it's so hot. Which was a real lawsuit it turns out.

PERINO: I have to say, Juan is so diligent about preparing for these segments. He really gave this some thought.

WILLIAMS: And I talk to Kimberly. I want to be prepared.

GUILFOYLE: You have to. This is the thing. And so, you know, Dana, you can order the flat white. It's my new favorite.

GUTFELD: The worst things about Starbucks is the selection of music that they sell. It's awful, terrible music in that store. I don't know. I just wanted to have something to say.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? He's been waiting to do this for three days.

GUTFELD: I know. I'm angry about it.

I hate lawyers except for you.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: I would say you and Geraldo. But I'm still...

PERINO: How about Judge Napolitano?

GUTFELD: He's a good man. Well, he's a judge.

GUILFOYLE: He's a judge.

GUTFELD: I may need him very soon. If they ever find out about what's in the shed.

All right. "One More Thing" is up next.



PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." Greg, kick us off.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's FOX News!


GUTFELD: Great news, great news, FOX News has hired a new contributor. Let's take a look at him.




GUTFELD: He's out of Yellowstone park, California. He is actually our restaurant reviewer. Here he is sampling the food. I think right there he just got a small rodent. He's actually very good. Look at that. The wiggle there. It's quite arousing, I might add. Try to control yourself, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: But he'll be doing regular reviews, at least monthly. If he finds something to eat, we'll let him know.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my god.

PERINO: Can't wait to have him on the show.

GUTFELD: What a great move that is.

GUILFOYLE: There goes Greg's job security. He's going to be replaced by that little wiggler.

GUTFELD: You don't know if I could do that.

GUILFOYLE: Not in your shorty robe.

PERINO: Wow. That just might be too much information for us. I'm going to move on.

Today -- this week is Teacher Appreciation Week. So a big appreciation shout-out from "The Five" to all the teachers out there. And great teachers make for great students. Check out this young man, Steve Heinous. He is from Chicago. Maybe it's "Hannis." I don't know.

GUTFELD: Oh, my God. Now you did it.

PERINO: It's spelled "H-A-N-U-S." Because he's doing something amazing, 12 years of perfect attendance. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got two weeks to go. That's a lot of pressure. Are you going to make it?


The No. 1 priority is to get to school. If you're not at school, how are you going to learn and how are you going to excel?


PERINO: And great students come from great parents. His two older brothers did the exact same thing, 12 years of perfect attendance. Congratulations.

GUTFELD: Boy, that's so Dana Perino.

GUILFOYLE: He's going to be a winner in life.

BOLLING: That should be the FOX hire right there.

GUILFOYLE: Perfect attendance.

GUTFELD: What if he had the flu, and he got everybody sick?

WILLIAMS: Good point.

PERINO: All right. Eric is next.


PERINO: Juan is next.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, today is Cinco de Mayo, as Gregory was telling me. But yesterday, yesterday was...


WILLIAMS: May the 4th. As in "May the force be with you." So it was "Star Wars" celebration time at the White House, and watch this video. President and Mrs. Obama welcoming R2-D2, and storm troopers to the diplomatic reception room.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Come on, star crew! Come on. Come on. Uptown funk, baby.


WILLIAMS: Yes, that was. So what happened was R2-D2 was playing "Uptown Funk," and there you saw Mrs. Obama, President Obama. And of course, the commander in chief was then screaming for the storm troopers to do their job and get moving.

GUTFELD: It must be great to dance with a mass murderer.

WILLIAMS: The storm troopers?


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. You're even rude to "Star Wars."

GUTFELD: Hard to do that.

PERINO: Let's have Eric save us.

BOLLING: All right. So I want to wish everyone in -- all the Mexican- Americans a happy Cinco de Mayo. Many of us think Cinco de Mayo is Mexican Independence Day, but it's not. May the 5th is not the day the Mexicans declared independence from the Spaniards. That day was September 16, 1810. Cinco de Mayo celebrates the Mexicans defeating a Napoleon-led French army in Pueblo, Mexico, in 1862.

With that straightened out, I want to say I love Latin culture. La gente, la langua (ph), las vendidas, la comida and the vida Latina. A huge fan, and this guy will celebrate with some tequila tonight, maybe some patron.

GUILFOYLE: Silver bottle with the lime. All right.

As a continuation of the great spirit celebrating everything Latino and Hispanic and, of course, the Puerto Ricans, it's "Kimberly's Food Court."

All right. Sponsored by Trump Towers and Trump Cafe. So I got a great idea today while on social media. Because we saw Trump put out his little tweet saying how much he loves the Hispanics and he loves the taco bowl. So this made me quite hungry, and I have to say I was already eating it during the break. If you haven't had a chance, you've got to have one.

GUTFELD: It looks like a frog threw up.

GUILFOYLE: You asked about it, you love it.

GUTFELD: I don't like eating anything when you have to eat the bowl. Eating the bowl is hard.

GUILFOYLE: Here's the best part. So we brought the little knife so I could politely cut the little -- the bowl, the little taco thing. But it's so good, and Greg is worried that it's from Chipotle.


WILLIAMS: I don't think you should let Trump see you doing this. Because he might be, like -- what he did with Kasich.

BOLLING: Kasich.

GUILFOYLE: I know. He's going to say that I ate it like Kasich.

PERINO: I doubt that's going to happen. All right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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