This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 4, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling and this is a Fox News alert. We're waiting a major announcement from John Kasich in his home state of Ohio. The GOP candidate is about to suspend his campaign for the presidency after declaring for months he would stay in the race through the convention. Kasich's departure comes less than 24 hours after Ted Cruz dropped out, giving Donald Trump a clear path to the nomination. Trump is now the uncontested and is presumably the GOP nominee, let's put it that way. And KG, so Donald Trump today was talking about taking the next step, you know, he is starting to vet some VP candidate -- potential VP candidates.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, and that's the way someone talks. They're saying look, I'm going to be the nominee of the party and I want to build bridges. I want to bring us all together and I want to get the best and brightest that the Republican Party and the conservative movement have to offer. I like that. It's what business people do, it's called best practices, right? And you're going to go and look and who knows how to do -- handle the economy? Well, he says he's great with jobs and he actually has some polling to show that he does quite well against Hillary Clinton in that regard. OK, who else can you bring on that's helpful and really top-notch with foreign policy, national security? He also acknowledged that he needs to bring someone on that's excellent with governance, somebody who has tremendous experience in the government sector to be able to help to run the country that knows the ins and outs of how it actually works, because that's not something he's familiar with. He doesn't have a political background other than being a donor to campaigns. So then you look at somebody like a John Kasich, or you look at somebody like Marco Rubio, and you have to be strategic as well in terms of, you know, who you pick.
BOLLING: Dana, what about that? So Mitt Romney, 2012, he lost fairly resoundingly, but if you take back Ohio and Florida and then add one more state in say Michigan or Pennsylvania, guess what, Trump wins.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yup, tall orders, however, because, it's not easy to flip those, especially with the registration. And don't forget because of Hispanic registration being up and the way the polling is, Arizona -- the democrats say that Arizona and North Carolina are both in play. So there's a lot to defend for the republicans are going to have to defend a lot of states, they gonna have to spend -- well, Hillary Clinton will end up spending money in Arizona when they didn't even -- they never thought they would actually be competitive in Arizona, now they think they will be. So there's gonna -- but all of those things Kimberly said are true, and like the type of people that you would need, and then looking at the map, I think it's going to be quite jumbled. It's not going to look like the maps of the last four elections, it will be different. I think Trump could actually pick up one of those states, I hope that he can. Especially because I think that policy-wise, those states deserve better, but I also want him to say it's a really.
GUILFOYLE: I'm most worried about.
PERINO: . high bar.
GUILFOYLE: . what you're saying and what you've pointed out on the show about Hispanic registration. I think it's a huge issue, which is why I think he's got to consider someone like you've been talking about Susanna Martinez or Rubio. He's really got to try and pull some of those votes.
BOLLING: So let's talk about that Juan, if there's been literally no republican president without winning Ohio, does he go with the John Kasich or just he worry about the Hispanic vote and maybe a Marco Rubio you vote, you get Florida -- likely to get Florida and Hispanic vote if you --
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh, you know, it's interesting, so we're sitting here, we're waiting for Kasich to come out and we know that Kasich is going to suspend his campaign, but the question on the table is why? And as you point out Eric, this is a man, governor of Ohio, he could offer something big in terms of helping to flip Ohio for Donald Trump, but he's a man who said that Donald Trump plays to people's fears. He said he ran a toxic campaign. And we know Trump belittled him recently about his eating habits, while he was doing an interview. So the question is why is he getting out? He said he was never going to get out before the convention. But now we've had Cruz get out and now Kasich gets out, and we now that the RNC, Reince Priebus is saying, time to unify. And I think that's the pressure, the pressure is coming on people like Kasich. If you're a good republican, admit that the -- move on for another day. You may not like Trump, but get out of the way.
BOLLING: Greg, Cruz and Rubio got out early because they may want to run some time, maybe 2020, 2024, John Kasich probably wouldn't run in 2020, or 2024. Do you think he got out because he's looking at that VP spot?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I don't know. I mean, it's possible, I can't figure it out. I would say that if I were Donald Trump, I would seriously consider somebody with a military background, somebody who has strong, you know, expertise in foreign policy. I would look at a John McCain, because that would, that would solve some interesting issues as somebody who has, he's the only republican I know that's denigrated --
PERINO: It might help you to win Arizona.
GUTFELD: Exactly, but the other person too, a wild card, Allen West. Allen West is a really interesting guy.
GUILFOYLE: I love --
GUTFELD: Military, black, kind of a, kind of a tough guy.
GUTFELD: That would be an interesting curve ball. And he's, an ideological conservative, which is what Trump really needs.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think his qualifications are he's a black military guy?
PERINO: No --
WILLIAMS: We've got a lot of him for --
GUTFELD: He's a war --
GUTFELD: But he's a war hero as well.
WILLIAMS: Oh, oh, OK.
GUILFOYLE: He's very bright and intelligent.
PERINO: What about Jim Webb? Remember that --
GUTFELD: I love Jim --
GUTFELD: I love Jim Webb.
PERINO: Well, actually that was Chris Stirewalt's idea, not mine.
GUTFELD: I think Jim Webb would be great.
BOLLING: I honestly think he needs to figure out a way to get Hispanic vote.
BOLLING: Get Hispanic vote back on your side. If you're not gonna win, if you --
GUTFELD: All you got to say I, I'm not go for the wall.
PERINO: I don't think a VP candidate going to do that.
BOLLING: No, he can't (inaudible) the wall.
PERINO: I don't think that saying giving -- I don't think finding a VP candidate that has Hispanic connections is going to erase the 55 percent --
GUTFELD: George Lopez?
GUTFELD: I mean, you know --
PERINO: Maybe. He's funny.
WILLIAMS: You guys --
GUTFELD: He is funny.
WILLIAMS: You guys are making a joke out of this.
GUTFELD: No, no. What I mean it was -- I mean --
GUILFOYLE: Can't get anything past you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think -- I mean, come on. Look, he has trouble with women. He has trouble with Hispanics. You want that --
GUILFOYLE: Susanna Martinez.
WILLIAMS: How about a Muslim?
GUTFELD: I said that yesterday, right?
WILLIAMS: All right, yeah. There we go. There we go.
GUTFELD: The problem is we couldn't name one.
WILLIAMS: And by the way, Eric --
BOLLING: Yes, Juan.
WILLIAMS: I want to give you --
GUILFOYLE: Ben Carson.
WILLIAMS: I want to give a toast.
GUILFOYLE: . or nominate himself.
WILLIAMS: A toast of my (inaudible), because you know, you've been way ahead on this Trump thing. And you know, you get a lot of flack, but I'm going to say you saw this coming way before anybody, right?
GUILFOYLE: And he sees dead people. He's not traitor.
BOLLING: Well, that's very nice --
WILLIAMS: I think that's true.
BOLLING: Thank you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: And, but --
BOLLING: But, but.
WILLIAMS: The second thing now --
BOLLING: But, but.
WILLIAMS: It's incumbent on people like you who saw it before. And Trump, to bring the rest of the Republican Party along. You can talk about VP's, but there's got to be a way you do outreach to people who have been alienated from Trump. He's -- and the pressure is on Trump, not the rest of the party.
BOLLING: If you listen to Donald Trump today, he did several interviews. Hold on, John Kasich is now approaching. Might want to -- here you go, John Kasich, the governor of Ohio will suspend his bid to become the GOP nominee for the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO: Thank you.
KASICH: Well, thank you all for coming. Well, of course, the first thing I have to do is to thank my great wife, Karen, for the fact that she has --
KASICH: I mean that she has endured my political career and also, of course, accentuated it. There's nobody like Karen. She's charismatic. She walks into a room and people fall in love with her. You know, when she appeared on Anderson Cooper, John Weaver commented, and Beth Hansen commented, that if we had only run Karen, we would have been a lot more successful. I happen to agree with that. And you know, Em and Reese showed up, and I mean, they're unbelievable. They're just so beautiful, and they've been so supportive --
KASICH: And they've traveled with me around the country as well, and it's was always such a delight to have the family on the road. And as their principal had said, don't let education get in the way of learning, and I think that they learned a great deal. And of course, I want to thank the Worthington Christian staff and particularly Buzz Inboden for their patience and willingness to kind of look after our family. It was terrific.
Our staff -- nobody has ever done more with less in the history of politics than what the staff has done. I mean, it's kind of always been this way. It's been a mystery to me other than to say that I like to think that they think that they've been part of something bigger than themselves, and we all want to be part of something bigger than ourselves, and I think we do it with, with honesty and integrity. And as a result, I -- I think I know and I sure hope and pray that they, that I, that they feel that this experience that they have had, in this, in this campaign has improved and in some way changed their lives for the better. And, so I'm looking forward to being able to spend more time with them.
The volunteers, just amazing. I don't know how many, 800 people we had, is it 800 people that went to New Hampshire, people who went to Michigan, people who were in South Carolina. I mean I would show up places and there were like people I knew, and I'm like why are you here? And -- but they were, they were believers. And I could never thank them enough for the long car rides and in the snows of New Hampshire, they knocked on doors and in the rain of South Carolina, they knocked on doors. They really gave of themselves.
My mother used to always say, never forget the volunteers, Johnny. And they were always the ones that have given me the octane, the fuel to be able to carry out my purpose, and I want to thank the people who gave the money, the financial resources. We never had all the money we wanted. We were probably outspent by 50 to 1, but we were never, ever daunted in that, and we just got up every day and did the best we can, and of course a big thank you goes to Beth Hansen who was the campaign manager and did everything that she could possibly do.
KASICH: And my dear, dear friend, Doug price, who.
KASICH: Well, we start getting into these names, but as I mentioned, I think Emma said, "Well Mr. Doug, didn't you travel with my daddy for like a year and a half?" And Reese looked at him and said, "How did you ever do that?"
KASICH: But we had a great time and we're going to have a lot more fun in the future. And of course, the kitchen cabinet, I look at Joanne Davidson, and Bob Klaffke, and Tim Tripepi who -- the only guy I know that who carried more luggage than an entire circus crew. I mean, it's just unbelievable. So, and I know I'm leaving some people out, but I want to thank every one of you. You know, I visited these beautiful, beautiful towns in New Hampshire, and people really counted me out in New Hampshire, but when we hit our 100th town hall, it was, it was remarkable, those beautiful towns. I will never forget the people of New Hampshire. We moved from New Hampshire, you know, in the Far East, all the way to the excitement of California, even being able to sit in traffic in Los Angeles. It was a big part of -- and I just love California and what it means to our country and the excitement that it breeds.
Yes, I remember we were in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Never knew where it was, heard about it all my lifetime. I never knew it was actually located above Wisconsin. And we landed, and I remember everybody was looking at their phones and I said, would you all please put down your phone, because this is a winter wonderland. This is magical what we're seeing here. What the good Lord has given us.
To the energy of Miami Beach, Florida, for one of the last debates, and you know, it was interesting, they didn't think I could make any debate, and I made all 13 of them, in fact, won a couple of them.
As for my beloved Ohio, the people here, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity that you've given me to be a leader in this state. The people of Ohio have given me the greatest professional experience of my lifetime. I've tried to pay them back. And last night in Cleveland, a woman, African-American woman said, "You made promises, and you kept them, and that's why I'm here tonight, because I believe in you that you brought our people together."
Well, it only happened because the people gave me a chance, and everywhere I went in America, everywhere I went in America, I told the people about our beautiful beloved state and held Ohio high. And I think gave people an impression from one end of America to the other, that Ohio is a special place, and I expect we're going to have more visits as a result. Yeah, I marveled at my colleagues who held public office. They knocked on doors, they made phone calls. And I mean, these were people who came from the legislature. I mean, when you're an executive and you have to deal with the legislature, it's not always -- it's not always peaches and cream, but yet, these legislators, the leaders, the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate, some of my statewide colleagues like the attorney general, just incredible that they would have come out and honored me. Frankly, I was so humbled by the fact that they, that they came and they loved me. They encouraged me. The people of our country changed me. They changed me with the stories of their lives.
We all remember that hug, in South Carolina from that young man who had found despair and then found hope somehow, and he just wanted to give me a hug and the country marveled, but you know that, that was one of a series of these things that had happened. A gentleman showed up in New Hampshire, he said, "I don't think I warned my son enough about the dangers of a certain type of cancer and now he has it, and I'm blaming myself." And he put his arm around me and cried. And I said, "Sir, it's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong, you're a great father. You come here all the way from New York to tell me about this. Take the load off of your shoulders." He wrote us a letter saying that that little conversation made a difference with him. And when we went to New York months later, standing at the rope line, was that man. He said, "I want you to know my son is doing much better. And I wanted to be here to thank you for taking the time with me." We were in a hall in Michigan, and a woman stood up and showed a picture of her son who had taken his life. We talked about faith, talked about her son and where he was and everybody in that hall embraced that woman and made her feel that she was not alone.
See, stories like this occurred all across our country. And I think it's frankly because for whatever reason that God gave me the grace to make people feel safe and comfortable, and they came to these town halls which were -- they were absolutely magic. You know, I've learned something, folks, everyone here, that we all need to slow down our lives, slow down our lives and listen to those who are around us.
Look, let me be clear, we all know that economic growth is imperative to the success of our country. Economic growth gives people an opportunity to realize many of their hopes and dreams in life. And without a job the family is weaker, the community is weaker, the neighborhood is weaker, the state suffers and our country struggles. And I can tell you that economic growth can be achieved by our public officials, if they just do their job, but they have to ignore polls, they can't focus on focus groups, and they have to overcome the fear of re-election or criticism. See, the formula is simple and it works. It is common sense regulations that don't crush or crush our small businesses, because that's where our kids get their work now increasingly. That's the fastest area of job growth. We know we need to lower our tax rates for individuals and we have to cut taxes for our businesses so they start investing in America, not some country located in Europe, and we need a realistic path to balance the budget, and frankly, nothing more imperative than a balanced budget amendment to the constitution to force the Congress to do their job. And we have to keep in mind that we need to shift power, money and influence from government back to the people wherever we live, and we have to begin to run America again from the bottom up.
However, the spirit, the essence of America lies in the hearts and souls of us. You see, some missed this message. It wasn't sexy. It wasn't a great sound bite. But I saw a young lady, I saw a young lady in Philadelphia who came to me and said, "I'm a producer on a major cable show and I watch your town halls and talk about the spirit of our country and my role." And she said, "You've affected my life."
You see, I believe we all need to live life bigger than ourselves. Yes, we need to live life a little bit bigger than ourselves. We need to reach out to help lift someone else, because you know what? It comes to us naturally if we let it. You see, we are as human beings, kind of hard-wired to want to give someone else a lift, give someone else an opportunity, and when we reach out it's so interesting, and when we reach out and help someone else, you see what it does, is it opens us, ourselves to recognizing and receiving the help that we need in our lives. It's a virtuous circle. When we help someone else to rise, it opens us up to receive the things that we need in our lives, regardless of who we are.
To paraphrase an old adage, "I sought the greatness of America in her harbors, and in her rivers, and I did not find it. I sought it in her fertile fields and boundless forests, and did not find it. I sought her greatness in her halls of Congress, and I did not find it." You see, after this campaign, I see it in us when we come together, when we lift one another with our eyes on the horizon.
Throughout my campaign I have said the Lord may have another purpose for me, and it said all the pundits of Twitter. Does that mean he's not committed or he's not focused or he's not energetic? It showed to some degree how little they understand about life. You see, I have always said that the Lord has a purpose for me, as he has for everyone. And as I suspend my campaign today, I have renewed faith, deeper faith, that the Lord will show me the way forward and fulfill the purpose of my life.
Thank you and God bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Well that was John Kasich, the 16 and final candidate to suspend his campaign against Donald Trump for the republican nomination. Juan, your thoughts on this, you were listening to that. It was a fairly long speech.
WILLIAMS: Well you know, let's be nice to John Kasich. I mean, he's a great guy, and we had a great time with him here on "The Five."
WILLIAMS: I think he was a little modeling, you know, and emotional. But I think he really did and intend to get out today. He was supposed to have a news conference in Virginia at Dulles Airport. He canceled that and then switched to Columbus for the 5 o'clock announcement. Something happened. I'm not sure what it was, but I think it's the pressure coming from on high among republican leadership, the so-called republican establishment I think has signed off and John Kasich got the signal.
BOLLING: I think what you saw though, what a great guy. What a nice guy.
PERINO: I've always admired him. I remember on Capitol Hill, my first day in 19 -- August of 1995, I had an opportunity to go to a meeting where he was there, and I was a pipsqueak, 23-years-old and he was so nice to me, and always remembered my name. And I know people hear at Fox knew him from your work here, but I knew him there and watched him on the balanced-budget amendment and followed his lead and I've been a big admirer of his, and I think that his family and staff that he's -- and he said, they worked very hard with very little, didn't have a lot of resources, he was the last candidate to get in, and did fairly well. I mean, he was the last candidate to get in and a lot of people never thought he would end up in the final three.
BOLLING: All right, Greg, your thoughts on this --
GUTFELD: It really is like it's the year of the cat in which every establishment candidate has been spit out like a furball, and he was, he was an excellent candidate. But I don't understand -- I didn't understand his campaign. I didn't understand why he, he held back for so long, and I think that that hurt him among the 17 candidates. He never really got a firm footing.
GUILFOYLE: And nevertheless, he's the last one standing. You know, he's a class act, he's super talented, he's an example of everything that's right and working well in politics in terms of his tremendous list of accomplishments and his years of public service, and I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of John Kasich, and I certainly hope so. I think he's such a great representative of the Republican Party and the conservatives.
BOLLING: Let's not forget. He's still governor and the people of Ohio want him back, the good governor.
GUILFOYLE: They love him.
BOLLING: They do love him. And I think the last exit polls were saying, but --
WILLIAMS: Did you come away from that, anybody, thinking oh, he's now vice presidential material?
GUILFOYLE: I think he is vice president material.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.
GUILFOYLE: . for anyone who would seek the nomination and be president of the United States, yeah.
BOLLING: We are now ready to bring in "Fox News Sunday" anchor Chris Wallace. Chris, an election cycle as unpredictable as there ever was, but now the republicans have their nominee before the democrats.
CHRIS WALLACE, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY" ANCHOR: Yeah, that's astonishing. I mean, do you think just a few weeks ago, I guess it was a month ago when Ted Cruz won Wisconsin. And there was a lot of commentary about the, this could be the turning point, this could be the moment when Cruz soars and Trump begins to falter, and a month later, Trump is the nominee and Hillary Clinton on the democratic side is still fighting Bernie Sanders. Go figure.
BOLLING: Go figure. KG's got a question for you.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. So hi, Chris, great to see you, thanks for being on the show. Just want to talk about the party and what do you think is going to happen now going forward in terms of unity, do you expect and anticipate that we'll have some other big party leaders, important senators coming forward to get behind Donald Trump's eventual nomination?
WALLACE: Yeah, I kind of do. You know, the worst mistake you can make in politics is to make a straight-line projection and say, well, because things are this way now, this is the way they're going to be two months from now or four months from now. And you could see how dramatically in his victory speech last night, Donald Trump was pivoting. It wasn't lyin' Ted any more, he was talking about Senator Cruz and what a strong, tough competitor he was. He talked a lot about the Republican Party and helping to elect republican candidates up and down the ballot. I expect, you know, we've been talking about the Trump pivot and it hasn't happened. I think it's going to happen big-time now. And, look, it isn't like people are suddenly in the Republican Party going to love Donald Trump, but he is going to be the nominee. And I think a lot of people are going to think it's better to stand with him than to tear the party apart. So, yes, I do expect they'll certainly be some people, you've already seen it today, some people keeping their distance, but I think we're going to see a lot of republicans getting on board what's called the Trump train.
BOLLING: All right, Juan?
WILLIAMS: So, Chris, let's talk about the prospects of victory for Donald Trump, even today, you see people talking about the electoral map. Is it possible for Donald Trump to flip enough states to win? The polls right now, the latest CNN poll has Hillary Clinton up by about 10, I think, so beyond the margin of error, Aurasma's telephone poll, people have some questions has Donald Trump slightly ahead of her. What do you see looking at the polls and the electoral map?
WALLACE: I think right now, you have to say that Hillary Clinton is a solid favorite to be elected. Forget the polls, it's really you look at Mitt Romney, who lost fairly decisively to Barack Obama, and you say, how many states could Donald Trump, first of all, can he hold onto the states that Romney won, and then, and then what states could he flip? So in that sense, I think you have to be somewhat pessimistic starting out about Trump. On the other hand, as I heard his message yesterday, which is basically, that America is tired of losing, we lose at immigration, we lose at trade, we lose in terms of how our allies and our enemies treat us, we need to stop spending billions or trillions of dollars overseas and start building it, start spending it building up America and the infrastructure. It's a very interesting unconventional message. Not at all a typical conservative republican message, but I could see it conceivably catching on and in places like the industrial north, the industrial Midwest, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin. Now, a lot of those states have not going for a republican since 1988 and George H.W. Bush, that's six presidential elections, but do I think it's conceivable it could flip? Yeah, I do.
BOLLING: Very good, Dana?
PERINO: I'm going to agree with you on that, but I want to ask you, Chris, about the democrats, and I'm curious what you're hearing about how much heartburn Bernie Sanders is giving to the democrats, and they have some primaries coming up that he is likely to win. So this narrative is not going to be put to bed for them for maybe a few weeks.
WALLACE: No, that's right. I think the key is how Bernie Sanders runs against Hillary Clinton. If he just stays in the race, and yes, it will be embarrassing there, it's embarrassing that she lost Indiana. You could certainly see conceive of her losing California to Bernie Sanders, that wouldn't be good. But on the other hand, just like she won some states late against Barack Obama in 2008, and he still won the nomination and went on to win the presidency, I think she could. The key is, does he campaign against her?
Does he continue to talk about her untrustworthiness and Goldman Sachs and all of that stuff? If he does, that's going to hurt her. If he doesn't; if he just makes the affirmative case for himself, but doesn't take shots at her, she isn't going to like it, but I think she survives it and goes on with the nomination.
BOLLING: All right, Chris. Greg.
GUTFELD: A broad -- a broader question about the campaign itself. A chicken or the egg question. Did the Trump support drive the media, or did the media drive the Trump support by diminishing real estate for other candidates?
WALLACE: I get asked this question a lot. I have to say, I think to a certain degree, it became a vicious or virtuous cycle, depending on how you view the Trump campaign. But I think we were followers, not leaders in this. In other words, I think that the reason we put him on so much, and I think we did, all of us, whether it was cable, whether it was broadcast, all of us put him on too much. I think to a large degree, it was because, every time we did, it spiked the ratings. We were, in a sense, following what the ratings were, which was the response to the public.
Having said that, the fact that we put him on so much, it did crowd out -- take a lot of the oxygen away from the other candidates. But I think at least the initial impulse was, you know, if you put him on, you get ratings; and we're in the news business.
BOLLING: All right. We will leave it right there. Chris, thank you very much.
And Chris will be hosting "Special Report" right after we're done; he'll pick up the coverage after this. Much more to come on "The Five." Fresh off his upset in Indiana, Bernie Sanders is pulling to vow off an even bigger upset: denying Hillary Clinton the nomination. But can he do it? Next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand that Secretary Clinton thinks that this campaign is over. I've got some bad news for her.
I think we can pull off one of the great political upsets in the history of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Hillary Clinton may be shifting her focus to the general election, but after another primary upset last night in Indiana, Bernie Sanders still thinks he's got a chance to win the nomination and has this message for those who say otherwise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS (via phone): I think that it is basically irresponsible and extremely undemocratic to say what, to the people of West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, California, how large a state, that they should not have the right to cast a ballot to determine who the president of the United States will be?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Even Trump is defending Sanders. The presumptive GOP nominee tweeting last night, "I would rather run against Crooked Hillary Clinton than Bernie Sanders, and that will happen; because the books are cooked against Bernie."
GUILFOYLE: I like this.
PERINO: ... Bernie Sanders, Tuesday -- was it just Monday or last Friday that they announced that his campaign was laying off a lot of staff?
WILLIAMS: Yes, that's right.
PERINO: I don't understand. It's like he has nine lives. Maybe he is the actual cat. Because then he keeps coming back and raring to go. What's that all about?
WILLIAMS: Well, I wish I could fully understand it. Because. you know, part of the argument is really intriguing, that the system is rigged against Bernie and that Crooked Hillary, to quote my friend Mr. Trump, is up to stacking the deck and preventing the man of the people, Bernie Sanders, from winning the Democratic nomination.
But when you look at the numbers, my gosh, she's got more votes. She's won more open primaries. She's got more delegates. She's got more super delegates.
But Bernie persists, and I think there are people in the Bernie camp who just feel like, "You know what? We're not excited about Hillary. She's not a great candidate, and she doesn't represent the kind of pulse of the far left in this country." And they are just charmed by Bernie Sanders.
So I guess he wants to get to the convention and bring that energy. That's the -- maybe I'm being nice to him. But I guess that's the best interpretation.
PERINO: Eric, Bernie Sanders spent $2 million in Indiana, and reportedly the Clinton campaign hardly spent any money at all. Do you think that was a mistake?
BOLLING: For whom?
PERINO: For Hillary. Should she have...
BOLLING: Should have spent some?
PERINO: ... set some money aside?
BOLLING: No, because the game is rigged. It is rigged on the Democrat side. If you take out the super delegates, which are 522 for Hillary and 39, I think, for Bernie Sanders, she gets 93 percent of those. Even though she's not winning anywhere 93 percent of, A, the vote, B, the delegates, or C, the states. So it's rigged. The super delegate game is rigged on the Democrat side so they can pick the nominee that they want. That's why Debbie Wasserman Schultz is doing what she's doing, too, pushing everyone towards Hillary Clinton. Didn't matter.
Bernie Sanders won Indiana and got 44 delegates, and she got 38 delegates, basically a wash on the -- on the Democrat side, because the numbers are so much higher. It was -- they came away with almost the same amount of delegates. The system is rigged on the Dem side.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute.
BOLLING: By the way...
WILLIAMS: Do you think that they invented this for this election? That's the system.
BOLLING: No, no, I think it is the system. And I think what happened was when the Republicans changed the system and pushed these delegates away from unbound delegates towards bound delegates, towards winner-take-all systems -- winner-take-all competition states and territories last election cycle, they changed it to become less rigged.
WILLIAMS: Less rigged?
PERINO: That's true.
BOLLING: So the Republican side became less rigged.
PERINO: Right, which is interesting now. It was less rigged.
Kimberly, what do you think Bernie wants from the convention? What is he going to ask for?
GUILFOYLE: Everything. Everything, I think the world is his oyster. Yes, I mean, why not? This guy is riding on such a high wave. And I think it's going to continue. He's incredibly popular. He's even friendly when you meet him. When we saw him in D.C., he was like, friendly, and warm and nice. His wife is nice. She came on FOX. I mean, thank you, that's normal. That makes sense, and they're reaching out to people. So that's good.
I'm not into socialism. That's where you stop me cold. But other than that, I mean, I think he really has a tremendous amount of influence and power that they really didn't anticipate, and he shouldn't get out. I think he should continue to run.
The Democratic side is so completely rigged, they should be protesting, going psycho outside, worse than, like, Occupy Wall Street. Worse than any protests outside, you know, a Trump event.
PERINO: OK. They're saying I've got to go. Do you have one quick word?
GUTFELD: No, that's cool.
PERINO: I didn't mean to cut you out, because I know you love the Bern.
GUTFELD: That's all right.
PERINO: Much more ahead.
Guilfoyle: They saw that.
GUILFOYLE: Donald Trump is now the presumptive GOP nominee, and Hillary Clinton wasted no time taking shots at her rival.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I know what it takes. And I don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like Donald Trump running our country. You know Donald Trump has said it's OK for other countries to get nuclear weapons. He has said wages are too high. I think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is, you know just beyond anything that I can imagine.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you feel like you know how to run against him?
CLINTON: Absolutely. But I'm not running against him. I'm running my own campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right. So she's taking shots and using some scare tactics -- Greg.
GUTFELD: Well, she's going to have to do better than that. Because what she said we all know: he is a loose cannon. That is why he's winning; that's part of his charm. She just basically called Donald Trump, Donald Trump.
So I think -- I think they probably have a lot to work with. And they're just holding on to it, and it's going to be an incredibly entertaining next six months.
GUILFOYLE: And vice-versa, Dana.
PERINO: Yes. I mean...
GUILFOYLE: She has huge unfavorables.
PERINO: The battle is joined, and so going forward, as she said, the electoral map possibly scrambled. I think Chris Wallace was right there.
There are new ads that Hillary Clinton's team was putting out today, either her team or a PAC or something that have a video mash-up of Donald Trump in his own words. And so it leaves nothing to interpretation, except for you're looking at his own words. It's not like they're masking it. So he's going to have that to contend with, as well, for those groups that he has high negatives with.
GUILFOYLE: Get ready for "Game of Thrones."
BOLLING: It's going to be interesting. I mean, Donald Trump has said he's going to, appears to be going with Crooked Hillary. But I really think this...
GUILFOYLE: That could change.
BOLLING: I really think this comment on putting, not the coal mining companies out of business. She said, "I'm going to -- I'm going to put coal miners out of business." Meaning she pinpointed the actual miners, and that's going to sit; that's going to be replayed over and over again.
Look what's going on in West Virginia. Bernie Sanders is just cleaning her clock in West Virginia over that comment. But if you expand that a little bit, so what does that mean? If you don't like coal, you're going to bury them? If you don't like oil, you're going to bury them, too? If you don't like a retailer that's not paying 15 bucks an hour, are you going to bury them, too?
Trump has a real opportunity here to go after her -- her on the economy. President Obama said, "You didn't build that." You had eight years of "you didn't build that." You want eight more years of "We're going to put the coal miner out of business"?
GUILFOYLE: Heavy-handed job-killers, that's what's on the left.
WILLIAMS: Have you checked the unemployment rate lately? Check GDP? Continued growth and so much growth over the last eight years...
BOLLING: No, not really. Not really.
WILLIAMS: ... that people now say we're due for a recession.
Let me just say, the most interesting the last few days on this point, Hillary versus Trump. Trump had lunch with Ed Klein. Ed Klein, who's written so much harsh, vitriolic books about Hillary Clinton. So he's stacking up on negatives to go after Hillary. But Hillary is a known quantity. Everybody knows Hillary. They know her negatives.
GUILFOYLE: Also, they know his, too.
All right. More to come on "The Five." That's next.
Was that fast?
BOLLING: Kind of a fun song.
WILLIAMS: Well, you can see clearly now. Donald Trump is the nominee for the Republicans, presumptive they want me to say. So anyway, who is going to be his vice president? That's the real question. And we have a pro at the table. Dana Perino.
PERINO: I'm not a pro. I don't know. Ask Dick Cheney. What you do is you get on the search committee, because then if you're on the search committee, if you're leading the search committee, that's how you become vice president.
WILLIAMS: Answer the question, Dana.
PERINO: I don't know who it will be. But this is what I was thinking today. Whoever wins, Bernie, Hillary or Trump, it will be the oldest president, I think, in maybe ever to take over.
PERINO: So I would say look for all of those things, governance, et cetera. But there -- I would bring some youth and vitality to this ticket.
WILLIAMS: And here we have youth and vitality.
GUILFOYLE: And I, on behalf of a grateful nation and the GOP, accept the nomination for vice president of the United States.
WILLIAMS: What about -- OK, so here's some names: Scott Walker, Marco Rubio.
WILLIAMS: John Kasich, Palin. Fiorina.
BOLLING: So the math, again, three states. You flip Ohio, Florida and then take one, say, Michigan, and all of a sudden, you have a tie, and then it goes to the House. The Republican wins.
So Florida, Trump's home -- second home state. I would say, OK, we got that locked down. Michigan, Rick Snyder would not be a bad choice, because you flip Michigan, you win. And Ohio, because John Kasich won it. So I would say Snyder or Kasich.
PERINO: Snyder is very damaged.
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was going to say, don't drink that water.
GUILFOYLE: What happened to Susana Martinez?
BOLLING: Obama just showed it's OK.
WILLIAMS: I've got to hear the man of the hour -- Gregory.
GUTFELD: You know, if I were Trump, I would -- I would pick Ken Wall (ph), the actor from "Wise Guy." Because that way if they say, "What about the wall?" You go, "I was talking about Ken Wall, the legendary actor from 'Wise Guys.'"
BOLLING: And Mexico's paying for him.
GUILFOYLE: Mexico pays us out.
WILLIAMS: You know, sometimes, I can't them. I hope you believe them. It's fun to watch.
"One More Thing," up next.
BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." K.G., you have a special one.
GUILFOYLE: I do. The U.S. military has identified the Navy SEAL killed by ISIS in Iraq yesterday. The American hero was Special Warfare Operator First Class Charles Keating IV from San Diego. He was 31 years of age.
Keating first enlisted in the Navy in 2007. He served three deployments overseas, earning decorations including the Bronze Star. The Pentagon says the SEAL was part of a quick reaction force that moved in to rescue U.S. military advisers from an ISIS attack. He was killed in a firefight.
Our thoughts and our prayers go out to Keating's family, and we are so very grateful to him and to all the brave Americans serving in our military.
BOLLING: Amen to that.
All right. Juan, you're up.
WILLIAMS: Well, amazing find, a three-billion-year-old diamond the size of a tennis ball found in November in Botswana. The largest diamond discovered in a century. The price? You'll have to pay to charm Kimberly, $70 million. It's 1,100 carats, the second largest ever. The largest was 3,000 carats. It's named "Our Light," and Sotheby's says it's the find of a lifetime.
GUILFOYLE: Wow. Gorgeous.
BOLLING: Holy smokes. Only $70 million?
GUILFOYLE: That's for Kimberly.
PERINO: I think that sounds low.
BOLLING: That sounds low, right?
PERINO: I guess.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Dana.
BOLLING: They make -- a small diamond like that.
All right. Here's a story that really kind of affects me. I can't understand how this ever could happen in America in this day and age.
The Flint water crisis. It was a failure at many levels of government, and the poor people of Flint, Michigan, are the victims. But today President Obama went to Flint, Michigan and drank the water. This is tap water that's been filtered. And what they're doing is they're filtering the tap water until all the pipes can be replaced. And President Obama basically is saying, "Hey, the water is going to be OK here."
Let's only hope and pray it is. Because those people deserve a lot more.
PERINO: Good for him.
BOLLING: And Dana, you're up.
PERINO: I want to highlight a book that I'm very interested in. I've been reading it. It's called "A Different Kind of Daughter." And it is by a woman named Maria Toorpakai. You might have heard of her. She was -- she's from Pakistan, and she has been fighting women's rights -- for women's rights there.
She -- when she was a little kid, she took off all of her -- you know, she has to wear all the clothing. She took it all off, and she burned it, using kerosene that her father had and matches. And her father supported her. And then she went on to play in professional sports in Canada.
So she's written a book, and it's very well done. So congratulations to her and her publisher.
BOLLING: Very good. All right, Gregory.
GUTFELD: What am I doing? I believe it's something to do with an animal, and the animal might be consuming something. Yes, what is that?
BOLLING: Greg's animal video.
GUTFELD: Thank you. Is that a snow leopard? I have no idea what that is. It's -- I don't know what that is. A cheetah, maybe?
GUTFELD: A jaguar? Anyway, he's eating snow, which is I guess, according to the producers, interesting. Yes, it's very exciting, and I'm very happy to have shown this piece of tape to America.
GUILFOYLE: Climate change.
BOLLING: That's all we got?
GUTFELD: That's all we got.
BOLLING: All right. Set your DVRs. You never want to miss an episode of this year's show. It's called "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report," I believe Chris Wallace is sitting in the seat. Chris, take it away, brother.
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