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The Five

Trump, Cruz campaign in Indiana ahead of crucial primary

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 2, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and Brian Kilmeade. It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."

It's crunch time on the campaign trail, just one day left before the crucial Indiana Republican primary with 57 winner-take-all delegates at stake. The candidates are pinning their hopes on the Hoosier state hoping to deliver a knockout. A new NBC-Wall Street Journal poll shows frontrunner Donald Trump pulling ahead by 15 points over rival, Ted Cruz. Kasich comes in third with 13 percent. On Fox News Sunday, Trump made a bold prediction on the state of the GOP race, if he wins Indiana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you win Indiana Tuesday, is this race over?

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, it is over. It is over now. But it's over. Cruz cannot win. He has got no highway. He has got nothing. He's way behind. I'm leading him by millions and millions of votes. And I'm leading him by 400 or 500 delegates. He can't win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Meanwhile, Cruz maintains that the race is not over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think regardless of what happens in Indiana, Donald Trump is not getting to 1237. No one is getting to 1237. We are headed to a contested convention. I'm going to have tons of delegates at that convention. Donald is going to have tons of delegates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he beats you.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: And it's going to be a battle to see who can earn a majority. Of course not, the reason Donald is so frantic to say the race is over and trying to get all of this media acolytes to say the race is over is because Donald knows he cannot earn a majority of the delegates that were elected by the people. You have got to win a majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, tomorrow night, we are going to be here on The Five and the again, at midnight because, Eric, once again, we have one of these Tuesdays where we are like this is it. This is the Super Tuesday. But this really could be tomorrow night decisive.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah. It feels like it. And by the way, Ted Cruz, prior to the latest round of polling which has Donald Trump up by as you pointed out 15 in that poll, 17 in the Wall Street Journal poll the other day. So prior to that, when they were very close to the polls, Cruz was saying, hey, Indiana means a lot. Indiana probably is the most definitive race up until now. When the poll started to widen, he said you know what.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No, it's not that important.

BOLLING: It's not that important.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Yeah, he went to California. So he threw the towel in Indiana. Bobby Knight's endorsement was huge. It outshown -- outshined?

PERINO: We'll take any. We'll take either.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: His endorsement and the Carly Fiorina VP picking or choosing, because he's trying to stay there. He is trying to stay relevant, if Cruz in Indiana. Interesting, very quickly, the anti-Trump crowd has said Trump can't break -- he had a ceiling of 30 percent then 40 percent, then 50 percent. The most important poll I have seen in the last few days isn't any of these. It is the Rasmussen poll, has Trump beating Hillary Clinton in a general matchup. And I think that's what the anti-Trump crowd really is hanging their hat on, is that Trump can't beat Hillary in the general. And now, those polls are starting to come around.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: He's right.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Looking for a lifeline. But it's true in terms of watching the trend. There was a number, it was like 23 national polls that show something other than that. It showed Hillary beating him. However, now, it seems like the trend is moving in a little bit of a different direction. Now, whether you can keep that momentum and capitalize on it is another thing. It's really going to come down to true matchup. When you have a nominee of the Democratic Party and you have the nominee of the Republican, and when they start going at it to see how it is going to be -- determine the outcome.

PERINO: What do you think, Juan?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh, I think you don't have to rely on an outlier poll here. That's a telephone poll clearly way, way out. Polls do not show that one doesn't count.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: It's not that it doesn't count, it's not just realistic to say oh, this one poll -- and besides, you know what, you guys don't need that. What you got to say is that the voters, Republican voters, so far, know they are not picking on the basis of the electability in the general election. And they are still picking Trump, and Trump seems to be gaining momentum, especially in the last two weeks after New York. The spread he had in Indiana, a state with a large block of evangelical voters, where Cruz has said you know what, Trump is on the wrong side of the transgender issue with the bathrooms. He is on the wrong side of making a deal with Kasich. That has now turned out according to this recent Wall Street Journal poll to be very unpopular with Indiana voters. And finally, even the choice of Fiorina hasn't helped him. I think you don't have to be stretching to say oh, all of a sudden, he can beat Hillary. I don't think that's not true. But you say boy, he has withstood every gambit made by Ted Cruz.

GUILFOYLE: And maybe that's why.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And we have you at the table, Brian Kilmeade.

BRIAN KILMEADE, CO-HOST: I am filling in for Greg Gutfeld for just one day. But let me just bring this up. I want to salute Ted Cruz. I think that's the true American way. Do everything I can to be successful until I'm eliminated.

WILLIAMS: Right.

KILMEADE: So what I'm going to do? I'm going to name a running mate, OK. See how that goes. I'm going to try to get this collusion going with Kasich, and see how that goes. I'm going to do 10 states -- I am going to do 10 stops in one day, see how that goes.

GUILFOYLE: Why not?

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: I would go down with a fight. But if he hangs on after it seems inevitable that you are going to get 1234 or 1237, then I think it's a little bit selfish and egotistical. I also would want to add one thing really quick, Trump is confusing, even to his opponents. I mean, on foreign policy, he is less aggressive than Hillary Clinton. On domestic policy, he's not somebody that can be easily categorized as a Republican, I was like old people because much of this (inaudible). He does not want to revamp Social Security. He does not want to blow up Medicare. So you can't say he doesn't like Medicaid or he doesn't like poor people. So he's going to be a little bit harder to play chess against, much to the consternation of many conservatives.

PERINO: Can I get the sound in here before we take it around the table one more time because Senator Cruz, and you think you're right, that back when there were 17 candidates, if you would have thought who were going to be the final three, I don't know that you have initially Ted Cruz would have been in that. So I agree with the campaign money. But yesterday, he was on the Sunday show, Meet The Press with Chuck Todd. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, MEET THE PRESS: If he's the nominee, I take you can't support him anymore, can you?

CRUZ: I believe if the Republican Party nominates Donald Trump, we will lose to Hillary.

TODD: Can you support him? Can you tell your delegates lay down your arm and support him?

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: I recognize -- I recognize that many in the media would love for me to surrender to Donald Trump.

TODD: Why can't you answer the question of whether you can support Donald Trump or not. You can't answer that question. Why won't you answer that question, straight forward.

CRUZ: Chuck, let me finish the point I'm making.

TODD: Are you going to support Donald Trump if he's the nominee?

CRUZ: I'm going to beat Donald Trump.

TODD: Say it, for him or against him as the nominee? It's a time for choosing.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: Chuck, you are welcome to lobby for support for Trump as much as possible. We are going to beat Trump.

TODD: Let the record show, you have not taken the position on whether Trump -- whether you can support Trump, if he is the nominee. Fair enough?

CRUZ: And let the record show you tried very, very hard to get me to commit to supporting Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Ted Cruz I think kept his cool there. I don't know if I would have done the same. It was interesting to see, Kimberly, if Chuck Todd when he has Hillary in the chair, if he's going to question her as hard as he just did Ted Cruz.

GUILFOYLE: I like the badger, badger in the honey -- I'm going to win. I'm going to beat Donald Trump. I'm going to be the nominee. I think Chuck took it too far, it was not very courteous. At the end, it is fine to say I have not made up my mind, I don't have a position on whether or not I'm going to support him.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I'm going to hold off. I'm going to reserve the right to make a decision after the votes and delegates have been counted. Thank you so much for the question, Mr. Todd.

PERINO: The next question.

GUILFOYLE: Next question.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. If they ask Bernie this question, and Bernie probably came around. It's not the question you ask the person who is winning, it's the question you ask the person in second place. Of course, he should ask that. But remember there was a big deal.

GUILFOYLE: Asking him to move on.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: At the very first debate, we asked every candidate, are you willing to support the eventual Republican nominee.

KILMEADE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: At that point, Cruz said yes. It's telling that he won't say yes now. I think that's the difference.

KILMEADE: I think so, too. But I would like to see a side by side. Hillary Clinton is going to get up there and at one point, she is going to refuse to answer a question, like for example, every question. I want to see a side by side if he's going to have 7 to 10 follow-ups on the same question. Russert would have backed out, making it clear to the viewer, he doesn't want to answer the question.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: He would have moved on Nobody was tougher than Tim Russert.

BOLLING: You know, he could have gone either way. He could have said yes, definitively, I will back. If he wins, he wins, fair and square. I prefer Donald Trump, as much as I don't like him, over Hillary Clinton. Or he could have said, absolutely not, I can't do that. In good conscience, I won't do it. Look, I don't think Chuck Todd should have gone back at him six or seven times.

GUILFOYLE: I agree.

BOLLING: But if he is going to do that, it would have ended at some point, picking one or the other, and living with it. It couldn't have been worse in my opinion than that was. Can I also just point out, Jon Huntsman came around, I believe it was today or yesterday, and said, look, it's time for the party to unite. If it's Donald Trump, it's going to be Donald Trump. We have to start getting ready for the big fight against Hillary. That was telling. And Marco Rubio also said the same thing.

KILMEADE: Rick Perry, too.

BOLLING: I didn't know about Rick Perry. But Marco Rubio.

GUTFELD: Yeah, he did.

BOLLING: If Rubio -- when he was fighting with Trump, when he was still in the race, he never went there. But now, he says you know what, it's time that we coalesce because Hillary is bad for the country. And it is good to see people who maybe considered semi-establishment types saying, look, if it's not our guy, it's not our good. If it is Trump, we have to beat Hillary.

KILMEADE: But it took them four months.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: It really is a tough bill to swallow.

KILMEADE: Right.

PERINO: Bitter pill to swallow, tough pill.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Rubio has to deal with Cruz going forward. So Rubio may be looking at.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Are we already talking about 2020? I have to take a break.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: That's the story today.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

KILMEADE: Rubio saying I'm not going to endorse Ted Cruz.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

KILMEADE: Because I might run against him.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I'm ready to get the primary over.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: For a Republican, these guys should be thinking about 2020.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Nice one. We have one more piece of sound to show you.

KILMEADE: We have never done that before.

PERINO: What?

KILMEADE: You mocked.

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: You made a mock about nature.

WILLIAMS: You got to watch this show, I get mocked. Do a little forum.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: Oh, please, come on. She's sharp-edged Dana Perino.

PERINO: I used to drop the atomic elbow every once in awhile.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I want to show you this one more piece of sound, this was Ted Cruz today in Indiana. This is getting a little bit of buzz, talking to a Trump supporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: I'm willing to be everyone's president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want you.

CRUZ: You are entitled to your views.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the math.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You asked Kasich to drop out. Now, it's your turn.

CRUZ: Donald doesn't get to 1237.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: What do you like about Donald?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything.

CRUZ: Give me one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything.

CRUZ: Give me one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The wall.

CRUZ: OK, the wall. Do you know on the wall, that Donald told the New York Times editorial board that he's not going to build a wall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're lying. Once again, Lying Ted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Ted Cruz is not lying about that. But I think, at this point, supporters for Donald Trump seem to be locked in.

BOLLING: That is definitely not for seven or eight minutes. And it was honestly difficult to watch. Look, I felt for Ted Cruz. He stood there and he took it, and he gave it back.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But it was hard for me to watch for both sides. I didn't like that one either.

KILMEADE: Do you think that helps him though, the question is, he's the chief debater that was talked about, the best one we have had. He's going to question average, every day voters.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: What is he hoping for?

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: Did he lose his temper?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think he kept it pretty calm. It's been hard for Ted Cruz to get media coverage. One of the way that he did that is we keep saying Republicans need to go and talk to people they wouldn't necessarily talk to. You can't just talk to people that you agree with. So I admire him. I wouldn't be able to do it for eight minutes.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Look, he hung in there. He kept his cool. That was uncomfortable. Other people would have just like walked away or said whatever. But he was trying to say I'm really fighting hard, I'm not having any humility here. Let me talk to the people, let me take the tough questions, I really want this.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: And he answered effectively when he said Trump had told the New York Times editorial board. That was an effective answer. My point in this weekend was seeing where Cruz said, who would you rather have, a guy that's endorsed by Mike Pence or Mike Tyson, who was convicted of rape in the state of Indiana?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I bet 90 percent of people said something else.

BOLLING: Trump's endorsement by Mike Tyson, but left out Bobby Knight.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But I think you know Mike Pence, the governor's endorsement was so wish you well (ph). Oh, my goodness.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: He's appearing with him today in Indiana.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All right. Before we go, a couple programming notes. Donald Trump will be Sean's guest on Hannity tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern. So tune in for that. And tomorrow night, catch an extra hour of The Five at midnight. We'll be here live, awake, breaking down the results of tomorrow's battle for Indiana. We hope you will join us.

And ahead, the battle over the women votes heat up between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Some say Clinton crossed the line with her recent remarks, and now her campaign is apologizing. Could the controversy hurt her tomorrow in Indiana? Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's feud about the women's vote is heating up. On Friday, Clinton was asked about Trump's sometimes personal attacks against her. Hillary is taking a lot of heat for her response. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I have a lot of experience dealing with men who sometimes get off the reservation in the way they behave and how they speak. I'm not going to deal with their temper tantrums or their bullying or their efforts to try to provoke me. He can say whatever he wants about me, I could really care a less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Well, after a Native American activist pointed out her off the reservation remark is in fact offensive, Clinton's campaign political director walked it back tweeting quote about the use of an expression today that has some offensive roots, divisive language has no place in politics. Hillary Clinton meant no disrespect to Native Americans. She wants this election to be about lifting people up, and not tearing them down. Trump hits back at Hillary in this preview clip from his interview tonight on Hannity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was derogatory, even to men. It was almost as though she's just going to tell us what to do, tell men what to do. If I would have made that statement or somebody else would have made that statement, it would have been like a big headline. She's playing the woman's card like I have never seen anybody play it. I think even women are disgusted by it. And there is no question about it, if she were a man, she wouldn't get 5 percent of the vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: There you go. So he's doubling down.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He got Trump Towered on the women's card. So, Brian, you are laughing and engaged, what do you think?

KILMEADE: I think this. I remember that episode of Seinfeld when they used the term Indian giver and they talked about how insulting that was. I think that if you are in the camp of too politically correct today, you cannot condemn Hillary Clinton about the reservation. Because I don't think she intended to insult one American Indian or anyone. If you want to find it later, to a statement, by the way, you may not want to use that, fine. I am for the new world where we thought we entered into, where we are more politically tolerant. I don't think anyone should jump on her, she didn't mean anything. But there's no way that was a sincere apology either. Someone else tweeted an apology. So it is either apologize or don't apologize. I'm for I don't need one.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God, That's like bizarre. It's like an apology through surrogate.

WILLIAMS: Through Twitter.

GUILFOYLE: Any microaggressions you are feeling, Juan?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He was nodding with me.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I was waiting on these two to tell us. This is terrible. My heart just pours out to those Native Americans.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You, two, love the term for the Washington football team.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: You have to say it.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I have a t-shirt of the Washington football team.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You wore the Redskins jersey I gave you.

WILLIAMS: You gave it to me, what are you talking about.

BOLLING: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I was going to say -- but it does say, it has a little thing.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: But, anyway, I think this is, again, for a group of people to say, oh these microaggressions. What is all these? This is so small, petty.

KILMEADE: Off the reservation.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Who even knew?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: So selective. That is petty. But calling the football team that's been called the same name for 80 years, the Redskins, the Redskins is offensive.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: What about the fighting Irish?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Is Indiana offended?

WILLIAMS: Indiana?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Are you OK?

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: The Kansas City football team.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Can you say the Cleveland Indians.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: This is what Trump has done to us.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Let's get back to the topic at hand.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Please continue.

WILLIAMS: Trump is the one who had something about Fiorina's face, twitted about Heidi Cruz, about Megyn Kelly. That's why.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: We have a differential in women voting for Clinton versus Trump.

BOLLING: All right.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Let's bring it back to reality.

KILMEADE: Sanity.

GUILFOYLE: Sanity.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So, off the reservation could be in one of the banned phrases. If you are trying to explain that somebody -- always trying to say that somebody is not on the same page, not on the same page could also be a banned phrase. Of course, she didn't mean it. But she has got to hoist it on her own guitar, right. Because then she apologized. That is actually a phrase.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Those are Dana words.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Actually, we could look that up.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Anyway, what is a candidate supposed to do? Because he has said all the things, like you mentioned, the POW thing with John McCain, nobody lays a glove on him. The media hardly even talks about it. He will never apologize for it. And yet, she apologizes immediately for something that was not meant to be offensive at all. So it could be a very long six months for Hillary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: Back and forth. Get ready for your table tennis, 2016. So, overall, we're saying at this table, we are saying you shouldn't be offended by it. There is some sort of a double standard here.

BOLLING: Well, on the liberal side. Again, because she said it was OK, it was a little thing. But God forbid one of the Republicans said it, you will see those Republicans, they are unbelievable, the racist.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Trump said they would have been.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I didn't know. Dana didn't know.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: You could get the context clues. Remember those? Off the reservation, you think about it for a second, it's a phrase we use all the time, but it could be offensive.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: It's a learning moment because Hillary Clinton thought she had a softball right over the plate, and that is she would not get 5 percent of the vote if she wasn't not a woman. So she thought she would get it with Jay Tapper, one on one at CNN. And guess what, she ends up apologizing the next day. So that slow pitch underhand pitch over the center, she was supposed to hit over the center field fence ends up being an apology. It's not as easy as you thought.

GUILFOYLE: It's so true. It's like guys used to hitting fastballs like pro-baseball players and the girl comes up, a pitcher in softball, and they do that.

KILMEADE: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: And then they can't hit the ball.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: Girls are good at it.

BOLLING: Crushing way over the fence.

GUILFOYLE: How about the timing? All right. And the release? When we return, violence erupts on the streets of Seattle during a mayday march. Could the outrage be a result of this turning into an entitlement society? More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Democratic contender, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are no strangers to promising freebies, if elected president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are going to be talking about making public colleges and universities tuition free.

CLINTON: I have a plan for debt-free tuition. You will not have to borrow a penny to be able to go to a public college or university.

SANDERS: The time is long overdue for the United States of America to pass a Medicare for all single payer programs.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: We have to have a paid family leave program of 12 weeks plus 7 days of earned sick leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Oh, boy. Maybe left-wing promises like these are inspiring free stuff and rights to things like college tuition, healthcare, and wages, making people angry and feeling entitled. That may be the case in Seattle where yesterday, mayday violent. Anti-capitalist protesters threw rocks, flares, Molotov cocktails at police. At least nine were arrested and five police officers were injured.

I'm going to go to you, Juan, first. You heard it, you know, May Day yesterday. The big -- the working-class, the people's day, May Day, causing violent out -- protests. Didn't we have a little discussion about the violent protests last week, as well?

WILLIAMS: There wasn't -- what -- most of the May Day demonstrations in L.A., San Francisco, Oakland, even here in New York were peaceful. That one in Seattle had a violent edge to it. And actually, that was the second of two marches in Seattle.

And there's no excusing it. I mean, that's just criminal, violent behavior by people who look to me like anarchists. I don't think that it symbolizes the movement. I think it symbolizes people who are, you know, lost souls in some way.

BOLLING: Didn't we have this debate on Friday about the protesters and the anti-Trump protesters jumping in the cop cars, and you said that was understandable, given their outrage at Trump?

WILLIAMS: No, no. In fact, this has a similar feel to it, Eric. I mean, much of this was about immigration. And you saw lots of people out there saying, "End deportation." Again, Trump attracts this because of his very hateful rhetoric towards...

BOLLING: Can we condemn all of it now and put this to rest?

WILLIAMS: What do you mean? What do you mean?

BOLLING: Well, I think you were pushing back on it. I said there's a place in America for civil, peaceful protests. But the violent outbursts are unacceptable.

WILLIAMS: I agree. I don't -- I don't have any -- I don't give any truck to people who engage in violence.

BOLLING: Dana, you want to weigh in on Hillary Clinton saying we need 12 weeks' vacation, plus another seven days six days? You're basically working one every four or five days -- you're off one every four or five days.

PERINO: Well, there's some -- I do think that the Republicans need to figure out a way to, either through incentives or something, to figure out a way to help provide for some sort of maternity leave.

So a lot of companies are doing it on their own now. And it's also paternity leave, too. So in some companies, both -- if you're the father or the mother, you get all of that -- you get that time off to bond with your baby.

And the millennial generation, they're going to be demanding this in some way.

I don't think the government necessarily should do it. I like the free market being able to do it through incentives. I think that makes a lot of sense, and there's a lot of good reason to get women back to the workplace afterwards. And so if they feel like they can't come back because they take time off with their child, that's not a good thing for our overall economy.

But of course, she's pandering. But sometimes pandering works in an election.

BOLLING: There was a story on the business network, FOX Business, and they were talking about summer internship programs. Companies like Google, and Facebook, and Snapchat, and Microsoft were giving interns quite a bit of money, like somewhere around $6,000 to $10,000 per month to be interns.

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: Guess what? Everyone wanted to work there. But the government didn't force Google, Facebook, Snapchat and Microsoft to do it.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Because you let the free market...

BOLLING: They did it on their own. Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. People get interns there. Then they are basically developing them to be good employees going forward and hopefully to retain those that they feel are the best and brightest.

I like the idea. Look, fantastic. Everybody's worked hard at, you know, internships. Look at it. I mean, I worked for free burritos every day. I mean, literally, took a burrito out in front of the V.A.'s office. You know, my boss would buy me lunch.

BOLLING: So how does it make you feel when Hillary Clinton say we should - - we should be paying $15 an hour, $12 or $15, whatever she is this week -- and all this time off.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but who's going to ultimately pay for all of this? I mean, is she in charge of all the private sector, too, and of all the businesses? I mean, is she the one to determine? I mean, let the market decide. How about free choice? Let people pick who they want to hire, what they want to pay, and at what level, entry level they want. Do they want to do it an internship? Is it a job development program? Are there unique, interesting ways to be able to get people into the work force and train them for a job that they might otherwise not be able to get, I mean, out of college? I like those kind of ideas. I like that kind of business innovation.

WILLIAMS: You guys are opposed to Social Security and Medicare? Is that right?

GUILFOYLE: No.

WILLIAMS: Oh, because it sure sounds like you're saying government shouldn't do anything to help people out.

BOLLING: I would -- I would prefer another form of Social Security. I would prefer being able -- being able to keep my paycheck and provide for my own retirement.

WILLIAMS: You're an honest man. I think most Americans, including most Republicans, would say...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: ... "We like Medicare."

BOLLING: ... than most Republicans.

WILLIAMS: When it goes to young people in terms of helping with school, and you're saying bad idea.

BOLLING: Yes. I think the free market works best in all occasions. Brian, are people looking for a reason to protest and violently protest just about anything?

KILMEADE: I'm not really sure. But I know this...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

KILMEADE: It started in Europe during the Bush years. I remember when President Bush went to -- I think it was Northern California, up in Seattle, there were some attacks on his cars. This generation keeps rotating through, showing violence toward industrialization and towards, in many cases, things that aren't coming their way that they thought they would and think there's someone to blame.

But I thought, in light of this, Mike Bloomberg goes out to the University of Michigan, extremely liberal school, and he comes out and basically says stop with the saved spaces. You're not going to get a free education. By the way, here's the line that got him booed. He said, "If anyone promises you they a free lunch, be sure they're [SIC] going to eat your breakfast." He basically said look out, and he got booed every step of the way.

But that is a Democrat who pretended to be a Republican who ended up being an independent, giving a message to the next generation of college kids. No safe places in the real world. OK? Especially when there are protests.

GUILFOYLE: That's on Greta tonight.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to leave it there. Remember, half those protesters pulled out their iPhone and looked at what -- to see what time it was or texted a friend.

GUILFOYLE: Who's paying for that?

BOLLING: Remember -- forget who's paying for it. Apple would never have innovated the iPhone if it weren't for capitalism. Period.

KILMEADE: Absolutely.

BOLLING: Up next, it's been five years shins Navy SEAL Team 6 killed Usama bin Laden. Some people are outraged over how the CIA marked the occasion. Details on that and more when "The Five" returns in a couple minutes.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: All right. It's been five years since bin Laden, the former leader of al Qaeda, the terror network, was killed by U.S. forces in a daring raid in Pakistan.

Yesterday, the CIA used their Twitter account to live tweet the event as if it was happening in real time. But not everyone appreciated the display of pride and patriotism. Some criticized the agency for the time line posts and boasts. One Twitter user called the move grotesque and embarrassing. That was an example of a negative comment.

Meanwhile, Rob O'Neill, the Navy SEAL who pulled the trigger on bin Laden's life, reflects on the anniversary and issues a chilling warning about al Qaeda today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Five years later, the death of Usama bin Laden was good, and it was able to -- it got rid of the leader of al Qaeda, but also, it provided a vacuum for -- you know, you can pull out of Iraq. Al Qaeda was their -- our eyes were on the prize there. But once we thought al Qaeda was kind of done, ISIS was able to come up in Syria.

And you know, ISIS is there right now. Now we've got our eyes on ISIS. But we've got to be careful for al Qaeda, because they're still big. They're -- most countries in the world, they haven't forgotten about us. And they kind of need to do something for a little more street cred. They're out there. They're still dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: Yes. Well, we killed bin Laden. It was just al Qaeda and there was al-Shabaab and maybe some sects over in Africa. But Dana, now they have ISIS, who is different but believes in the same thing: kill everyone who's not Muslim. What do you think? Was it wrong for the CIA to give the tick-tock on the whole thing?

PERINO: I think the CIA is trying to do modern communications, and you'll see that a lot of people, including a former press secretary for George W. Bush, does the live tick-tock on the anniversary of 9/11. And it's a good reminder for what happened that day. And I think that that's an effective way to communicate. So I don't blame the CIA for doing that.

I don't want to take away from that really important moment in our history, but I do agree with Rob O'Neill, that that moment does not tell the entire story of the foreign policy of President Obama. And it's very clear that ISIS is resurrected on his watch. It is growing on his watch; and the next president is going to have a lot to deal with as it has spread to North Africa, Europe and even into the United States.

KILMEADE: You know, that's not just Dana Perino's opinion. It's James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, says there are more Sunni violent terrorist groups, members and safe havens than at any time in history. And you nod, Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I agree. I don't think there's any doubt about it. The thing is, it's not directly connected in a linear way to bin Laden's death. I mean, what you have is we attacked the people who attacked us on 9/11. And it was a tremendous success for our country to finally get bin Laden. I don't think there's any question about it.

So when you have something like this -- what I consider, like, a cancer metastasizing around the world and in different places, it's not really -- it's not saying, "Oh, you got bin Laden." But then it's not really effective, because you have growth elsewhere. No, it's disconnected in that sense. It's just this terrorist, Muslim extremist ideology that, I think, as I said, is a cancer around the world.

GUILFOYLE: And the cancer has been allowed to spread and metastasize under this failed foreign policy of Barack Obama.

WILLIAMS: Get out of town.

GUILFOYLE: I'll finish my comments, thank you.

And someone who's tied to that failed foreign policy is Hillary Clinton, former secretary of state under his watch. And when you said that, it has proliferated and, in fact, spread like seeds throughout the Middle East, where you have now not only al Qaeda but you've got ISIS, bigger, stronger than it ever was from when the point when President Obama called it J.V. Now all about establishing the caliphate.

KILMEADE: Right.

GUILFOYLE: There's much work to be done.

BOLLING: I think it should be a national holiday. What do you think of that? Not only don't -- don't mention it anymore, make it a holiday.

Look, the difference between that, being super offensive, and the Obama's administration inability to say "radical Islamic terrorism" is vast.

PERINO: That's a good idea.

BOLLING: The more we don't say that, the more emboldened and empowered they are.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: They have us on how we are.

PERINO: We could celebrate his demise on a national holiday. That's a decent idea.

KILMEADE: It is. But it also reminds me of Zawahiri, arguably a more lethal terrorist with a more sinister mind. Al Baghdadi is the new bin Laden on steroids. And you have ISIS, which is more lethal, who's spread out and says, "Come and get me."

PERINO: Right.

KILMEADE: Al Qaeda goes into communities and sits there. And it's much harder to weed out. So now we have two different terrorist groups who believe one thing: find a way to upend western civilization. And they can't wait to die trying.

So unfortunately, this isn't a day in which you could celebrate a world championship. It was a day in which we thought we won the world championship, but fell short, and we're now forced to relive it, in a way. Because he is dead, but the -- but bin Laden's group is more lethal than ever.

GUILFOYLE: It's spreading. It's true.

WILLIAMS: It's not only bin Laden. I think, actually, bin Laden's group is not as effective. It's that you have these other groups like, you know, al Nusra. And you have...

KILMEADE: A form of al Qaeda.

WILLIAMS: And you have ISIS in Syria. So you have different forms of it. I think it's simpleminded to say, "Oh, that's it. And we didn't win, because we got bin Laden." Yes, we did win. That was a tremendous victory.

KILMEADE: All right.

WILLIAMS: We had been searching for him for a long time.

KILMEADE: Absolutely. And it took -- it took a convenient -- what's the matter?

BOLLING: No, I'm pointing out that, yes, there was a kill shot under President Obama, but all those -- all the plans and information that was gathered...

GUILFOYLE: Intel.

BOLLING: ... under the Bush administration...

GUILFOYLE: That was under 43.

BOLLING: ... is the reason for the kill shot.

WILLIAMS: I see. Sour grapes.

BOLLING: It's not sour grapes.

GUILFOYLE: Group effort. Proper credit.

WILLIAMS: I've heard of sour grapes.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's called teamwork and giving proper credit.

WILLIAMS: You won't even give credit -- you won't even give credit when Obama does well.

BOLLING: ... Obama, I was simply saying...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I hope Obama takes out al-Shabaab right before he leaves office.

BOLLING: That's bad, bad, bad.

KILMEADE: I blame myself for the anarchy. I looked at your body language, and I watched your finger. And the whole thing blew up.

The folks in the control room, they also blame me. Thank you very much.

All right. Let me tell you what's coming up straight ahead in the last 15 minutes. Question, would you have taken a gap year or break between high school and college if given the chance now? It's now becoming a popular choice for students. We'll debate the post-high school hiatus next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The White House has announced that Malia Obama, the president's oldest daughter, will attend Harvard University in the fall of 2017, not this year. Before she heads to the Ivy League, Malia is taking a so-called gap year between high school and college. Its's a trend that appears to be gaining popularity. But is taking a hiatus before starting college a good idea? Would my fellow "Fivers" have done it if they were 18 again?

So let's go to the youngest person at the table, Brian Kilmeade. Brian, what do you say?

KILMEADE: I was playing -- I had to go play soccer in college, so that was a little bit of an issue. But if I wasn't into sports, no way. You've got to stay on a roll.

My feeling is so many of my friends got -- fell in love with money, whatever they felt they were making. And there was not a lot of emphasis, maybe, to some of them to stay in college. So therefore, they would have taken that gap year and made it a career, and they never would have went back. And I saw it happen so many times. I know your stats say that nine out of every ten go back to school, but I don't see it.

WILLIAMS: You don't see it. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I agree with him: I don't see it. And absolutely not. What are you going to do? What job are you going to have? What are you going to accomplish?

KILMEADE: You go to gap conferences and learn how to fulfill yourself and grow.

GUILFOYLE: Come on.

WILLIAMS: What they're saying is...

GUILFOYLE: How about maturity, responsibility? How about go to college, get a job and take those classes after hours or on the weekends? I don't know. I was very much about getting into college, getting that done, doing really well, then going to law school. I had, like, eight weeks off, maybe, between graduating college and law school.

WILLIAMS: I was just like that, but I must say, when reading about this today, it says, in fact, not only do they become more mature, they appreciate the opportunity to go to college. And I know at this table, we complain about college student who drink too much, think it's an opportunity to party, don't take college seriously.

Now, let me go to someone whose son just decided, I believed today, where to go to college.

BOLLING: So, and I want to -- first of all, congratulations to Malia, that's fantastic. Getting into Harvard, that is just amazing.

GUILFOYLE: Yay.

BOLLING: What an accomplishment. Terrific. Hats off. And by the way, if you're the right student, if you're the right kid who can take a year off, do it. Really, if it comes down to, if you can afford to do something like that, go for it. If you're the right type of personality to do something like that where you're not going to get derailed by the things that you do if you're not exactly studying every single day, go ahead and do it. I think it's a fantastic opportunity.

I wouldn't -- my son is very social. He's very aggressive. He loves people, loves friends. He's very good at studying when it's a routine. I think it's good...

KILMEADE: He breaks the routine, it's all over.

BOLLING: Well, I'm not saying it's over. The best thing for him is go directly to school. Go there and knock it dead.

GUILFOYLE: Knock it out.

BOLLING: I had to go because of baseball.

WILLIAMS: My daughter went for a gap year between college and law school. She went to teach English in Peru.

GUILFOYLE: That happens a lot. Yes. That's good.

WILLIAMS: Dana, you approve or not approve?

PERINO: Approve. Absolutely approve.

WILLIAMS: Really?

PERINO: I would have done it if I could have. Because I didn't have a chance to travel anywhere. And, you know, we -- not that my mom and dad took us to a lot of places. But not -- I didn't go to Europe. I hadn't seen any -- really anything of the world. I'd been to England, and that was it. I would have loved to have seen what third-world countries really are like.

GUILFOYLE: A between high school and college?

PERINO: I don't care. I don't care. I think anytime that you can get that world experience. And I have to say, as -- if I were in a position to hire somebody, I would be more likely to hire somebody who went and did something interesting like that and saw, maybe, something of the world or gave back, in a way, if they could afford it.

And I think that's the thing that bothers me, is that this thing -- the gap year seems to be for wealthy kids. That's for the one percent, not the others.

There's a great program between Australia and Canada, for example. They do exchanges. You can work in Canada for a year or vice versa. I think that type of thing could be great if we could do that.

WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing," up next. Stay with us.

BOLLING: So...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I get to go first. A 6-year- old, Macy Hensley, Ellen DeGeneres's presidential expert. She's been going all around, trying to find out all these presidential secrets. She's met President Obama, and today, she took her ventriloquist George W. Bush doll and met this guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There it goes.

George W. Bush. That looks like just me.

MACY HENSLEY, INTERESTED IN PRESIDENTS: He can talk. Just kind of try to hide your mouth behind his head.

G. BUSH: All right.

HENSLEY: You want to try?

LAURA BUSH, WIFE OF GEORGE W. BUSH: Sure. I've been trying to do this forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I love Mrs. Bush's answer. That was really fun.

Brian.

KILMEADE: All right. So I've got to tell you, I do this thing called "The Celebrity Stroll," but it was too cold to do it. When I walk outside with famous people and try to see how they act. So I took this guy from Louisiana, who's not used to the city to walk the city streets. He is Willie from "Duck Dynasty." Here's an exclusive, world-wide exclusive clip on what it's like.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: He knows where the meat comes from. But can he identify it by the time it comes from the street vender.

WILLIE ROBERTSON, REALITY TV STAR: Squirrel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that?

ROBERTSON: Do you have squirrel? You don't have squirrel? Not squirrel? You should try it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: He says he grew up eating squirrel. And he was very disappointed there was not any street meat.

PERINO: It is great nutrition. I mean, it's a lot of protein. Not a lot of eating in a squirrel, though.

Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: He's the best. So fun. Great family.

OK. So we were at the White House Press Correspondents' Dinner this weekend. We missed you, Dana, of course. And Greg was not there, but Brian was there. And Bolling.

These are, like, a couple little shots. I got to see Doocy there and Peter Doocy. Ainsley and I doing a little selfie. And then lo and behold, we saw the guy they call Instagram star sensation. The fat Jewish guy. See him with the little hairdo? Anyway, very cute.

And then we had to take pictures with our pilots, of course.

PERINO: Of course you did.

GUILFOYLE: They came out of the cockpit. They're like, "We like FOX," the whole deal. Very nice. Annapolis grad, I believe. So we had a great time.

And I'll be on...

KILMEADE: And you look stunning.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you very much. I'm on Greta tonight. You can catch me on that and a little later on Lou Dobbs. Thank you, Brian. We had a good time.

PERINO: Eric, you're next.

BOLLING: I have a couple pictures from the dinner, as well. I'll put them up on Twitter. But here, we're going to quickly, Newt Gingrich right there, had a great time with him. Tony Romo and his beautiful wife, Candace. Have a great time with them every year.

Kerry Washington, hung out with here for a little bit at the ABC party. And then this one, a very quick story about that. I'm in the hallway, I'm in the aisle. And all of a sudden, the color guard starts walking down. They're about to play the national anthem. So I'm rushing, I'm trying to find a place to stand. I just weave my way through the crowd a little bit. I stop. The national anthem starts to play. I put my hand over my heart. The national anthem plays. And when I turn to try to find my table, I'm standing directly next to Mr. Vice President.

I shook his hand. I said, "By the way, Mr. Vice President, if Donald Trump picked you as his vice presidential candidate, he would win." He laughed, and we took a picture.

And very quickly, Mr. Juan Williams with this picture right here. Check it out.

WILLIAMS: I guess they didn't show the picture.

GUILFOYLE: We're out of time.

WILLIAMS: There it is. There I am with Will Smith.

PERINO: Very cute. Juan, I think we're out of time for your "One More Thing." Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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