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The Five

Trump on NY delegate haul: Cruz 'mathematically eliminated'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 20, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Well, those hoping to stop Donald Trump coupled with those spending a ton of money to stop Donald Trump from winning the nomination were delivered a huge blow last night as the republican front-runner won his home state of New York in an absolute blow-out. John Kasich trailed way behind in second place and Ted Cruz fared even worse in third. Trump did some delegate math and here's what he's calculated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to be so strong again, we're going to be, really, I mean legitimately so great again, and I just can't wait. So we don't have much of a race any more, based on what I'm seeing on television. Senator Cruz is just about mathematically eliminated. We're really, really rocking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And just moments ago, Ted Cruz vowing he's in it for the long haul, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What is clear today is that we are headed to a contested convention. Nobody is able to reach 1237. I'm not going to reach 1237 and Donald Trump is not going to reach 1237. We're going to arrive in Cleveland with me having a ton of delegates and with Donald having a ton of delegates. The only condition in which I would leave the race is if it was clear there was no path to victory. At this point we are headed on a path to victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: But the numbers say this, Cruz is mathematically eliminated from achieving that 1237 number last night, so he seems to be relying on other methods. But as I've said here many times, I think Trump will hit that 1237 erasing those other methods. So KG, your thoughts on what went down last night and maybe even weigh in on Donald Trump's little sound bite from Donald Trump's victory speech last night, bit of a different tone.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, I think it was a good tone. It seems like there's some maturation along the election process there, which I think was much needed, especially also with branching out his operation. There's no way to, you know, call it any other thing, though, a huge victory last night is very big numbers that he put up on the board. You know they thought that they would do well. They were hoping, shooting to be able to get, you know, snag all the delegates. But that's, that was a pretty commanding a victory and a nice piece of momentum if you're a candidate going forward into the rest of the states to try and you know, finish the 100-yard dash versus the 90.

BOLLING: Dana, one of the knocks on Donald Trump has been the woman vote, the female vote. He nailed 57 percent of that vote last night. That's pretty, almost commensurate with his total vote totals.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yeah, republican women in New York went for him, so that worked in his favor. But it's also, you know, it's not just that he's got a hundred percent name I.D. in the country, but people in New York know him and they really like him. And so I wasn't exactly surprised by that number. The numbers, though, nationally and in a general election with women are, I would think would be a concern for Donald Trump. He tried to do something last night, which is to make himself inevitable. And that is a smart thing to do, that's what a front-runner would want to do. But Cruz is saying, after -- not next Tuesday, but the Tuesday after that, you get into more Cruz-friendly states, in his opinion because the demographics line up for Trump with somewhat conservative and most evangelical states the New England state, and you get farther out west, Cruz thinks he's got a chance.

BOLLING: Yeah, just to be the -- he just has to stop him from the 1237. Everyone said Donald Trump was expected to win his home state. He got 60 percent of his home state. But I did little math, Ted Cruz got 47 percent of Texas and John Kasich got 47 percent of Ohio. So Trump actually --

PERINO: There were a lot more candidates in the race.

BOLLING: Right, but they -- but Trump did outperform the others in their home states.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, I mean, you can look at it this way. Trump did way better in Texas than Cruz did in New York, which may say that Trump has a more broader appeal than Cruz does. I happen to think he does. But what's next? I think you're going to see a political equivalent of monkey in the middle. You know, when you play that as a kid, you're going to have Cruz on one side and Kasich on the other, they are going to be throwing the delegates over so that Trump can't catch them. It reminds me of that thing that they do in "The Price is Right" where somebody bids, $1200, and somebody bids $1201 --

PERINO: One dollar.

GUTFELD: One dollar more. And it's like -- it's perfectly legal to do, but it's kind of crappy. So I wonder if it's good --- if it's necessary good mood to keep going on this. What Trump has to start thinking about is how are you going to deal with Hillary? Which means you got to start thinking about their opposition research, what they have on you? And that means you've got to like sacrifice your ego and start talking to the people around you about what she going to do to me? What is she going to come after me about? Because you've got to start building up your immune system, because the fact is your immune system wasn't hit by our media, our media didn't touch you. So it's going to be -- Hillary is not going to be nice to you as all the networks were.

BOLLING: Geraldo, a hundred and seventy-two delegates up for grabs next Tuesday night, Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, and all the states that have polling have Trump anywhere between 14 and 20 percent ahead.

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: I think to Dana's point, I think Trump is inevitable. I think Cruz is old news. He's dead. He just doesn't know it yet. I think Bernie is burnt out. Trump, I spoke to him last night, he's ebullient. He's also angry at the so called "Rigged System." I think he's going into those northeastern states and he's going to get the lion's share, I believe, of those delegates. And if he's not at the magic number, he's going to be damn close to it. And I think he will be undeniable.

BOLLING: Can I point something out that both of you, you just said, you said, Trump said the -- brought up the "Rigged System," right? Is that Bernie support?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: Remember when Bernie Sanders had the system of government is rigged --

GUTFELD: That's why they need to run together.

BOLLING: The economy is rigged.

GUTFELD: The rigged brothers.

BOLLING: But is Trump, and doing what he does best using those names and saying, hey, Bernie Sanders, if your guy's not the nominee on your side, come vote for me.

GUTFELD: I like, I like Trump when he's winning and not whining. I think it's time to let go of the constant thing about rigged.

RIVERA: I'm glad you brought tone back, because Kimberly suggests at that - - you saw a different Donald Trump, "much more presidential" quote/unquote, last night. That moderation did not last through today, because today he's in Indiana.

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: And he's all sharp elbows and --

BOLLING: Lyin' Ted.

RIVERA: You know Lyin Ted, and all the rest. He was exactly back to where he was before he won that overwhelming victory here in the Empire State.

GUTFELD: Yeah, you can't change those spots.

RIVERA: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: OK, well, listen to this. Last night, Hannity asked Trump's Convention Manager Paul Manafort about reports that Cruz would try to block the front-runner on a second ballot at the convention. Here was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It's not going to be a second ballot, so it's not an issue.

SEAN HANNITY, "HANNITY" HOST: And you're convinced?

MANAFORT: We have several ways to get to 1237, you know, by early June. And today was a giant step forward. We think we're going to have another great week next week. But more importantly, what you saw, and you saw record turn-out today in New York, and a record turn-out with a primary that everybody knew Donald Trump was going to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And a lot of the talk, so as with you Geraldo. There's a lot of the talk is that Donald Trump might bring New York state back into play in the general election.

RIVERA: I think he would.

BOLLING: . for the republicans.

RIVERA: I think he would -- or I do point out that I vote --

GUILFOYLE: If --

RIVERA: I voted in --

BOLLING: No?

RIVERA: I voted in Manhattan. And I think that Manhattan is the one borough that went for Kasich, but the turnout was really big. And Trump, Dana says everybody knows him and everybody likes him, that's true, but it's bigger even than that. I submit that Trump is a movie star. Trump is a very, very compelling and charismatic person.

GUTFELD: Control yourself, Geraldo.

RIVERA: And Hillary Clinton --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: And Hillary Clinton, until last night --

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: Until last night was very underwhelming as a candidate. Last night was her first time where she seems now inevitable.

GUTFELD: Can I -- I think you know, Trump crushed Cruz and Kasich. He's like a steamroller over a pigeon. But there are 865,000 that voted in the republican, in the republican primary. The democrats had 1.8 million, so that means you won now, but you're going to have to get a lot more out there. You think --

RIVERA: But aren't there a lot more democrats than republicans?

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: I mean, is that even a fair comparison?

GUTFELD: That's my point.

GUILFOYLE: That's what he's saying -- yeah.

GUTFELD: That's part of my point.

BOLLING: Think of this, though, 700,000 voted for Bernie Sanders, now they're going to have to go somewhere. What do you think, Dana?

PERINO: I --

BOLLING: They go to --

GUTFELD: I think they go to Hillary, yeah.

PERINO: Yeah. Yeah. The other thing is it's the New England states. I mean, when Hillary Clinton -- when Barack Obama won re-election, that night she knew, when I go to run in 2016, I will start off with about 240 electoral votes, just looking at the map. Now the map could look totally different than the map we've seen in the last several elections. But the blue wall, which is the New England state -- I mean, this is Cruz's point that he -- Donald Trump could very well sweep all of all those states next weekend or next Tuesday, and he'll do very well. But it -- when comes to a general election, the New England states haven't voted for a republican president in like ages. Maybe, maybe all of a sudden this will change in four months.

BOLLING: Well, will they vote for Cruz?

PERINO: No.

RIVERA: Never.

PERINO: No.

BOLLING: OK, all right.

PERINO: That's Cruz's point.

BOLLING: Will that --

RIVERA: Never.

BOLLING: Yeah, but --

PERINO: But will --

BOLLING: But the point I think so, is it Ted Cruz.

PERINO: But will -- will they vote?

BOLLING: . instead of Trump, we're going to have the republicans have the worst problem.

RIVERA: Ted Cruz.

BOLLING: What? Go ahead.

RIVERA: Ted Cruz is going to go back to.

BOLLING: No.

RIVERA: . uncle fester-hood.

BOLLING: All right, can we talk about this --

PERINO: That's just -- I mean, this is what I think is amazing. It' that -- that we talk, talk about the maturation of the campaign and how it's good that he's like not insulting people, and we do it. I don't -- I just -- I don't like to participate in the personal identity politics.

RIVERA: I withdraw --

PERINO: . and the distraction of it.

RIVERA: I withdraw my remark.

BOLLING: All right, let's keep --

GUTFELD: And by the way, you meant Grandpa Al.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Let's stay positive -- keep it positive tone. In order for Donald Trump or Ted Cruz for that matter, to win a general election, they have to court the Hispanic vote. Can either one of those guys get the Hispanic vote?

GUILFOYLE: Well you certainly have to try and why not. I mean, everybody's vote should be open and up for grabs, right, to try to persuade the candidates. I mean, well, look Trump feels like he's got, you know, a strong chance to be able to do it. Let's see.

RIVERA: He can't --

GUILFOYLE: And perhaps --

RIVERA: He can't do it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he's not going to get all of it.

RIVERA: He can't --

GUILFOYLE: . but he's going to get some Latinos and Hispanic.

RIVERA: Unless he backs off this draconian.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

RIVERA: . obnoxious, hideous policy of forced deportation of families, including citizen children, he will not get any meaningful Hispanic votes.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: So why do we say --

GUILFOYLE: Citizen children thing is a problem.

BOLLING: If he won't do that and Ted Cruz and Donald Trump both agree that a border wall should be built. You're down to John Kasich or someone else - -

GUTFELD: I mean, this --

BOLLING: Or losing.

GUTFELD: This is -- yeah, I mean this is kind of the scary, the realization for republicans, that Trump took a big step to winning the nomination, and Hillary took a big step to winning the presidency. Unless Trump can somehow convince the general electorate that he's not as extreme, as Geraldo said - - says, he's got to learn that it's more to life than white males that there are other people out there. The other thing is he's got to convince these ideological conservative republicans that he have alienated through the relentless berating of their principles that he's one of them.

BOLLING: Can he do it?

PERINO: Well, on the Hispanic side, it doesn't -- whoever the republican nominee is it's estimated that because of the growth in demographics that you need to win about 40 percent of the Hispanic vote. George W. Bush won 44 percent. McCain was around like, I guess like 32 percent, maybe; Mitt Romney, 27 percent. Donald Trump right now, has an 85 percent disapproval rating with the Hispanic community. So if you need -- if just pure numbers wise, you got to get 40 percent. You have a heck of a lot of work to do.

BOLLING: To do Cruz or Kasich get there?

PERINO: Cruz and Kasich are slightly better, but not much. So yeah, everybody has a lot more work to do.

RIVERA: He's pivot hasn't taken place yet. It will. Once you have to be a crazy person to win the republican nomination. On the issue of immigration, once it happens, he's got to pivot and pivot strongly and say, I didn't mean, of course, I'll prioritize. I'll go after the rapists and the drug dealers. I'm not going after ma and pa, Juan and Maria.

BOLLING: The wall will be so high.

RIVERA: The wall will be --

BOLLING: And guess what next, they won't pay for stuffs like that.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

RIVERA: The wall what be his priority.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We're going to go. Bernie Sanders was on a winning streak, but Hillary Clinton stopped him in his tracks last night, has a democratic socialist been stopped for good? His campaign manager coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: I love that song. All right, Hillary Clinton won big last night in her home state of New York, making it close to impossible for Bernie Sanders to ever overtake her in the delegate count. She's already talking like the nomination is hers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And to all the people who supported Senator Sanders, I believe there is much more that unites us than divides us.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: And tonight, little less than a year later, the race for the democratic nomination is in the home stretch and victory is in sight.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: The Sanders campaign, however, still see as path forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WEAVER, SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Look, we're going to go to the convention. It is extremely unlikely that either candidate will have the requisite number of pledge delegates to get to this number, right? So it's going to be an election determined by the super delegates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK. And then there are some conflicting messages, though, because a senior strategist for Bernie indicates the campaign will re- evaluate after next Tuesday's contests in the northeast. So, which is it, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well you know --

GUILFOYLE: He's so excited.

GUTFELD: No, I've got to tell you the real winner in all of this is Bernie Sanders. A year ago he was novelty. He was a socialist who wrote amateur porn and was thrown out of a commune. Now he's America's, you know, fuzziest cuddliest leftist. After this, he'll be hosting "Saturday Night Live," he'll be doing commercials for budget. He'll make cameos in movies. He'll be the first person to make a profit from socialism, ever.

GUILFOYLE: Giving speeches --

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: All of the above.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Endorsement --

GUTFELD: He won't know how to charge, because he's never made any money.

BOLLING: He could be secretary of the treasury for Hillary Clinton.

GUTFELD: Don't say that.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Can you imagine that?

GUTFELD: Don't say that.

GUILFOYLE: Better get something. Right, Dana? And he's got to get like, something --

PERINO: I think that -- yeah. And he'll have an ability to at least make some sort of demand, either at the convention or with the party.

RIVERA: Why? Why would --

PERINO: Well --

RIVERA: What's his leverage?

PERINO: Well, all these people? He's won 71 percent of the youth vote.

RIVERA: He got --

GUILFOYLE: And all the donors.

RIVERA: He got routed in this election. And the way it was --

PERINO: You said that New York State is not like the end all be all. Like there's like a whole country out there.

RIVERA: But New York's election showed is --

GUTFELD: Show it today, if you haven't seen it.

RIVERA: You have to register. You have to be a resident.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: You know, these are very fickle --

PERINO: OK.

RIVERA: His supporters. I don't think that Bernie goes anywhere.

GUTFELD: How many of them actually voted. When you think about it, Bernie Sanders -- remember all these people that came to -- but a lot of them like --

BOLLING: A hundred thousand --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Remember Ed Henry said a lot of these people in New York were college kids from other.

BOLLING: Yeah.

RIVERA: That's right.

GUTFELD: . states and stuff.

PERINO: That's why -- maybe they'll vote there.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I didn't think of that.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: So you did, you had two senior campaign people on Sanders saying, one was said he is going to go all the way to the convention. The other saying, we're going to re-evaluate in a week. I think what Bernie did himself was very telling. Bernie went back to Vermont.

RIVERA: Yeah.

BOLLING: And he said --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And think about this. Meanwhile, all the other candidates looked forward to the next -- Donald Trump was in Indiana. Ted Cruz is, I believe in Pennsylvania, if I'm not mistaken. They all hit the road and started on the next contest. Whereas Bernie said, yeah, let's re-evaluate. Which I think is problematic for whoever the republican nominee is going to be. We would rather see of drag -- knock them out, drag-out, bring it to the convention fight, so that the Sanders voters are courtable (ph) in the general election.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. So you think, that will -- well, that's obviously would benefit the GOP. But if you're going for Sanders, what do you think is the best strategy? You re-evaluate after Tuesday? Do you try and then extend the branch --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Or you get something?

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: No, Bernie --

RIVERA: I think so.

BOLLING: I think Greg is right, that Bernie is becoming a bit of a rock star in the liberal side and liberal cause. And the longer he stays in.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . and draws 27,000 people, the better his book selling and all of those things are down the road.

GUTFELD: He just won't know how to do it. It's like, gosh, so I get paid for this?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. He won't --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: With 90 percent, I got to give away?

PERINO: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And it won't be amateur.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: . anymore, right?

GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: So "Meet the Press" host Chuck Todd doesn't see a path for, for Sanders with one exception.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, "MEET THE PRESS" HOST: At this point the only -- he's only got the FBI --

WILLIE GEIST, "MORNING JOE" CO-HOST: Yeah.

TODD: It's like that's his last get-out of, you know, nomination free card or whatever. There's just -- the path isn't there and --

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, "MORNING JOE" CO-HOST: OK.

TODD: I think now, how does he -- he's got like --

BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.

TODD: He's got an opportunity to take the party over.

GEIST: Yeah.

TODD: Its heart, you know, sort of the heart of the party if he wants it. But if he goes out, takes the ball and screams and goes home.

GEIST: Yeah.

TODD: The Clinton people shut him out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: What do you think, Dana, you like him?

PERINO: Well, here's what I think also about Bernie Sanders. So he has won 71 percent of the youth vote so far, that is more than Barack Obama was able to garner from youth vote in both of his campaigns in '08 and 2012.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: And one of the things that the republicans -- the democrats admit that they have a problem with is that the future of their party is -- well, I'm not going to say it's bleak. But all of their leadership is really old. So, then look at their two candidates, I mean those are they're in their late 60s, early 70s. So he has an ability to look into this coalition that he has built and figure out how he can help, try to unite the Democratic Party. I do think that she will have to figure out some way to address the fact that the party has moved so far left, they're going to want a piece of something. And they want -- don't forget Elizabeth Warren has yet to endorse, she hasn't hit the campaign trail. She's been waiting in the wings. And if Hillary Clinton deploys her, i think that Elizabeth warren could be that bridge between what the Bernie Sanders voter's wants than Hillary Clinton can deliver.

RIVERA: I think it's going to be the running mate, the running mate, Corey Booker, an African-American. There will a minority person or a Latino. That is the future of the Democratic Party. It's more -- it's less the millennial, you know, college, white kids than it is. I think the burgeoning population you mentioned earlier; the Latinos are an ever-larger portion of the voting population now. African-Americans are going to be motivated to vote against Trump for whatever their reasons. I think that you know, the selection of a running mate, a youthful, different generation, minority person of color, I think that's where the democrats get their support.

GUILFOYLE: Well, she's going to have the African-American vote. I mean, she's going to do well there.

RIVERA: I agree.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

RIVERA: Agree. But the generational aspect of it, I think will take care of itself. Bernie Sanders is not, I don't see Bernie Sanders leading that crowd from Washington Square Park to vote.

BOLLING: She has an Achilles in the African-American vote, which we've talked about extensively here. The '94 crime bill, and you know, she -- it wasn't suggesting, she was just supporting her husband's bill. She was out there stumping for it. And I don't think Sanders ever exploited that. I think he was worried to do it. He couldn't do it because he was -- he was polling so low with African-Americans.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes.

BOLLING: But I think if Donald Trump or Ted Cruz.

GUILFOYLE: Super predator -- yeah.

BOLLING: . whoever the republican is could go after her heart on that saying, look, she did no favors to the African-American community, at least hear our side of it. Hear what we have to say about it. She's flip-flopped on it dramatically and --

PERINO: And --

BOLLING: And may be able to get some of that for.

PERINO: And her unfavorables are so high like historically high for a front-runner, the same on the republican side. But I think that because he didn't have enough money at the time, their decision not to play in the southern states, aggressively as he could have will probably hurt him on that front.

GUILFOYLE: All right (inaudible). Next, President Obama met today with Saudi Arabia's king as the country threatens consequences if Congress passes a 9/11 bill back at home, that's coming up on "The Five." Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I've come here to Cairo to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world. One based on mutual interest and mutual respect. I do so recognizing that change cannot happen overnight. No single speech can eradicate years of mistrust. But if we choose to be bound by the past, we will never move forward. The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God's vision. Now that must be our work here on earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: In his first year in office, President Obama sought a new beginning with the Middle East. What a difference seven years makes, he's returned to the region that is more violent, with relations more strained. He arrived in Saudi Arabia today, to meet with the king, and amid tensions over his outreach to Iran, his policy towards Syria and also a 9/11 bill back at home it allow families to be able to sue the kingdom for attacks. Here were both leaders earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING SALMAN BIN ABDULAZIZ, SAUDI ARABIA'S KING: I and the Saudi people are very pleased that you, Mr. President, are visiting us here in the kingdom.

OBAMA: OK, but the American people send their greetings and we are very grateful for your hospitality, not just for only this meeting, but also for hosting the GCC-U.S. summit that's taking place tomorrow.

SALMAN BIN ABDULAZIZ: Thank you, Mr. President. And the feeling is mutual between us and the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So he began his trip today on what Politico called an apology tour. He's got several countries that he is going to visit. This is Michael Singh the managing director at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy said today in the Wall Street Journal, "If the administration hoped that the U.S. stepping back would lead our allies and adversaries to resolve their problems, that hope has been dashed. If anything the region has only grown more chaotic and President Obama will leave his successor a proliferation of Middle East crisis, and no clear policy for navigating them." So a tough trip for the president over in Saudi Arabia.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: I'm sorry, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: You're just looking at me.

PERINO: I was looking at you and I was just assuming that you could see me looking at you.

GUTFELD: You should get it.

PERINO: . and I should ask you a question.

GUTFELD: And get Kimberly to a Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I did.

PERINO: So the question is, what do you make of that, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: I'll tell you. This is really -- tough timing, I think for the president. Can you imagine having to go over there, given everything that's going on? It's very dicey. It's a delicate situation in terms of diplomacy. And let's also be realistic about this, we cannot afford to let this government fail, to be honest, because the people who will step in, someone like Iran, to capitalize and take advantage of it. So it so such precarious balance as it is already in the Middle East. Where do you go from here? Like what happens next if you topple and cause problems for this government? A huge problem, I think.

PERINO: Eric, since he was there in 2009, the rise of ISIS. You have Saudis tilting towards Russia. Iran is ascendant, and also Saudi is mad at us about that. The Yemeni government down. Jordan struggling because of the refugee crisis. And Egypt. Across the board, this is not necessarily the region he thought he would be leaving to his successor.

BOLLING: So when he gave that speech, we talked about it. We literally said how can he be that Pollyannaic [SIC] to think that this is the way future, that everything in the past won't dictate what we do in the future and everything is going to be fine"? Lead from behind.

I printed the speech, because I knew this -- we talked about it time and time again over the last seven years.

But for all these things that you point out have happened in that time. But as recently as a few days ago when he gave that -- that interview to The Atlantic magazine, I'll say it again: he literally told the Saudis, through The Atlantic magazine interview, that the Saudis need to learn how to share the neighborhood with Iran.

I mean, there we are, seven years later after that speech, and he has learned nothing from all those events that you've outlined. And frankly, he's put us in a much -- put the Middle East in a far riskier position and...

RIVERA: I think it's very...

BOLLING: ... us in a far riskier position.

RIVERA: The lead is, Saudi Arabia is a thug country. That we've been kissing their behinds for decades because of oil.

BOLLING: True.

RIVERA: Who funds ISIS? Who funds al Nusra? Who funds al Qaeda?

BOLLING: We agree on that.

RIVERA: Who funds the Taliban? Who has disrupted the entire south Asian/northern African? It is Saudi money.

Now, we are allowing families -- Congress wants to allow families to sue Saudi Arabia, because 19 -- or is it 16 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. And there are 28 pages in the 9/11 investigative report that has that truth in it.

Open it up and recognize Saudi Arabia for what it is. They are no friends of ours. And I think that, when you talk about relative peril to America, there is no comparison. Saudi Arabia is far more dangerous to the United States...

BOLLING: I would disagree with that. I would agree with everything you said, with the exception of that last part.

PERINO: Gutfeld, I'd say that the only thing worse than having an alliance with Saudi Arabia is not having an alliance with Saudi Arabia. A state that falter.

BOLLING: Can I...

GUTFELD: You know what's interesting to me? It's 2016 and we meet with kings. I mean, when we go to Finland, do we hook up with Vikings? I mean, do we have pirates?

GUILFOYLE: We hope so.

GUTFELD: Well, you do.

But do we have -- do we have pirates in our Rolodex? I mean, why are we dealing with these people?

PERINO: Pirates.

GUTFELD: We don't talk to pirates or Vikings. Yet we go to kings. A king should only be the name of a basketball team.

By the way, they're blackmailing us. What if the house of Saud had no oil? They're like the -- they're like the cousin who won the lottery and does nothing but buy stuff for themselves, while everybody else gets nothing.

The more we frack, the more they bail. We have the left that tells us that we can't drill, we can't frack. That just plays into the hands of these guys. We have to -- I'm spitting I'm so angry. We have to become energy independent completely so we don't rely on these people. These kings.

BOLLING: You know what else we do with them, too? We sell them high-tech military infrastructure.

RIVERA: That they use to kill...

BOLLING: Planes. For whatever reason. If you want to get off the junk, get off the oil junk, also get off the dollar junk that you're selling them military equipment for money; $95 billion we've sold them.

GUILFOYLE: And also just all the oil, right? And the very large Shia population there, as well. And that's where the oil...

GUTFELD: 2016. It's like, you're a king. How can you be a king? How come I'm not a king.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. You're so weird.

GUTFELD: There's no logic behind it.

GUILFOYLE: I have sad news for you. I've got a royal segment today.

GUTFELD: Yes, but the royalty that you like do not have power.

GUILFOYLE: That's what you think.

PERINO: All right. That's called a deep tease.

Ahead, if the skies look a little cloudier today, that's because it's 4:20, a high holiday for pot smokers.

GUTFELD: Pun. Pun.

PERINO: We'll weed into the legislation debate next -- legalization.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: It's April 20 -- i.e., weed day -- where we mark the achievement that is pot smoking.

Now I get it: life is hard, and humans have every right to seek oblivion, whether they find it in a shot glass or a spliff.

But as more of us favor legalization, we must admit there's a price to pay for things that indulge human weakness.

Legalization won't turn you into a pothead, but ambivalence and lethargy will. And pot loves that stuff. You cannot ban what feeds failure, but you can keep an eye on it.

The problem with the left: They never connect the dots so they embrace all change without thought of consequence. The problem with the right: We connect too many dots and we see only the bad, fearing we will become a nation of stoners. Who do you listen to?

Well, pot is inert, but we've used it to enable our sloth. Given the choice of punching up a resume or getting high, pot is the easy detour. You mustn't ban such choices, but you can strengthen your resolve. The best things in life are also best as frosting, not cake, Kimberly.

An exec doesn't have a martini in the morning; he has it after work. Alcohol always tastes better once you've earned it. Why should pot be any different?

Right now we live in a shallow world where celebrities treat it as an e-ticket for infantile dorm-room euphoria. And it's great fun. But once you see pot as every bit as boring as booze, then we can get back to being adults, the kind who don't brag about their vices.

I have a theory, Geraldo, that pot has become more of an option in life because you live longer. Because we live longer -- like if your lifespan was 30 years old, you weren't smoking pot. You were trying to take care of stuff.

RIVERA: Well, I think that -- I was on the board of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws in the '70s. I thought it was going to happen in the '70s. It didn't. Then came Reagan and "just say no." It was a big setback.

I think marijuana is far more benign than alcohol. It has to be regulated in the same way alcohol is regulated. You don't want kids to use it. If they do, they mess themselves up. They lose their ambition. They become slothful, as you suggest there.

On the other hand, it's a great analgesic. It's a -- it's a wonderful drug that has been banned, I think, in part by the alcohol lobby. And intolerance and the confusion. It's far less damaging, I think, than nicotine.

GUTFELD: Eric, it's 4-20. Have you called your son?

BOLLING: I've been calling him all day. I've got my eyes on you, buddy.

But you make a very good point, that once you remove whatever the stigma or the coolness of it, it will become just like alcohol.

And I will tell you -- I mean, I can't cite any studies -- but anecdotally, I would tell you, I'd rather be on the road with someone who is driving after they smoked a joint than someone who had just drank two martinis. Just -- it's just the way it is.

GUTFELD: They say they drive slower.

BOLLING: They drive slower. When you drink you tend to drive faster and sloppier.

RIVERA: How about not driving at all?

GUTFELD: Generally, they're just pulled over.

Yes, I don't know. Kimberly, you're looking at me like -- we've lost our minds.

GUILFOYLE: I see nothing but Vikings. Let's go back to that segment.

Look, you know, you know where I stand on this, right? Former prosecutor, the whole deal. But I also believe that it does have tremendous medicinal benefits. It's very helpful to people, especially I've seen so many people that I know that have suffered, you know, from cancer.

And when you have this type of really valuable tool to use in the fight against cancer, to help people feel better and to be able to tolerate their medications, to try to heal and get better, you know, there's obviously a lot of plus side to it.

But as with anything, just like with alcohol, there can be abuses of it. So, you know, it's not something I would encourage young people to go out there and smoke and pot and do whatever. I think you have to be careful and responsible about anything you put in your system.

RIVERA: Should it be legalized federally?

GUILFOYLE: I haven't been for the legalization of it. I mean, I think right now that it's state by state, right? But federally, I mean, that's someone else's job.

GUTFELD: Dana, you know in the old days in the 1950s, well before you were born, the drunk was a comic character. You know, they always had it in comic strips, the drunk guy. We had Foster Brooks. He was always drunk.

Now it's like that with pot. Like, you have movies, you have Seth Roegen, they're always high. Celebrities championing pot, it's kind of easy for them to do, because they don't have to suffer the consequences of a lifestyle of pot. They still make money. Whereas co-eds and whatever...

PERINO: I have a lot of friends who live in Colorado and family in Colorado. There's mixed opinion about what the legalization has done there. Certainly, I think my friends who are parents think that it's been terrible. And my friend who works on -- he's on the board of a hospital, said that their situation there has been -- is much worse. I also just find it personally unattractive. I don't like it.

GUTFELD: I hate walking into the closet.

Can I read just a couple of tweets from 4-20 day? I know we're running out of time here, but this is a tweet from Victoria: "Just to let everybody know, the 25-cent pancakes at IHOP is fake. I'm here now, and the manager just told me, someone made that up." That's a good 4-20.

This is from Vezy (ph): "The funny thing about 4-20, everyone who is celebrating did the exact same thing yesterday, and they will do it again tomorrow."

And then this last one, "If you are posting 'Happy 4-20 Day' and you are over 30, you need to get a full-time job and move out of your parents' basement."

All right, 4-20 also happens to be National Look-Alike Day. Who could be our doubles? Some of you send in your thoughts on Facebook and Twitter. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIVERA: It's National Look-Alike Day, so we thought we'd have some fun by asking you all who you think we look like. We got some great responses on social media.

First up, darling Kimberly and her appropriately gorgeous lookalikes, the beautiful Sophias, Loren and Vergara.

PERINO: Good choices.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice. Kind fans.

GUTFELD: Sophia sandwich.

RIVERA: Sophia sandwich.

And I think that you do -- are you ever confused for any of them?

GUILFOYLE: Well, people say Sophia Loren, for sure. You know, back when I was modeling I heard that. And then I've been mistaken a few times for Sofia. But it was the result of my free fruity drink.

GUTFELD: I get mistaken for a sofa.

GUILFOYLE: They said they like my Pepsi commercial.

RIVERA: Do you speak with a Spanish accent?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I do. All the time.

RIVERA: All right. Greg, is next. Viewers chose Ben Stiller and Christopher Knight, the guy from "The Brady Bunch."

GUTFELD: Peter, actually.

RIVERA: What do you -- what do you think of these choices?

GUTFELD: I guess if you took both of their heads and smooshed it together...

GUILFOYLE: They had a baby?

GUTFELD: ... you might get something like me.

PERINO: And got some powder.

GUTFELD: But I always felt that I was like a cleaned-up version of Gilbert Gottfried.

PERINO: I heard that.

RIVERA: All right. Now to the elegant Dana.

PERINO: Very nice.

RIVERA: Hers are Grace Kelly and Heather Locklear.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

GUTFELD: Great picture of Heather that they got. They really went hard looking for pictures. Good job, you guys. You know...

GUILFOYLE: You're defending her?

RIVERA: Howard Stern really likes your look. I think that the Grace Kelly...

PERINO: That's nice.

GUILFOYLE: Well, so does David Aspen (ph), right?

RIVERA: David Aspen (ph)?

PERINO: He likes my hair.

GUILFOYLE: Like your highlights. And you look beautiful like Kim Novak.

RIVERA: Is that sexual harassment?

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: We had to escort him out, though. It was awkward.

GUILFOYLE: It was very sweet. He comes to visit us.

RIVERA: Next up, my man Eric here. He got his look-alikes, David Hasselhoff and Dean Martin. I like the Dean Martin one.

A very classic look.

GUILFOYLE: He's totally the Hoff, OK?

RIVERA: Toward the end there...

GUTFELD: Toward the end.

RIVERA: In the '90s. No, he was, he was -- I had his son on "Famous Kids." And he...

PERINO: Oh, was that fun?

RIVERA: He called in. It was fun; it was a fun show.

PERINO: I like to interview kids.

BOLLING: Is this about you or me?

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, I think you should sent out one of your pictures again.

BOLLING: They got my pictures up there, and it's like Geraldo.

GUILFOYLE: Remember the time when you had the blanco gordito. And you were like...

RIVERA: Blanco gordito.

BOLLING: Yes. The shirt.

GUILFOYLE: When you were doing the shirtless thing.

BOLLING: I don't know. The -- that was the first I heard. I have heard the Hasselhoff one before, but I never heard the Dean Martin one.

RIVERA: I don't get the Hasselhoff one.

GUTFELD: I think you look like the dude from "Homeland" -- what's his name? Damian Lewis.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the guy -- isn't he from...

BOLLING: "Billions."

GUILFOYLE: "Billions."

GUTFELD: You know what's funny? When people tell you you look like somebody famous, they assume it's a compliment, even if the somebody famous isn't attractive. So if somebody says, you know, "You look a lot like Don Knotts." And you're supposed to be like -- if he were not famous, that's not a compliment.

BOLLING: Did you see the look-alike -- did you see the look-alike on Maury, where there was a female guest on Maury who was a dead ringer for Ted Cruz? It was unbelievable. It's striking. She could...

RIVERA: Let's not go there. Dana will scold me again.

And finally me. Let's hit it. I got Tony Orlando and Groucho Marx.

Tony Orlando and I used to always say we were cousins. We used to play it.

GUTFELD: So what do they all have in common?

RIVERA: I can't imagine.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

RIVERA: Cigars.

GUILFOYLE: The two of you in person, it is quite compelling.

RIVERA: It is. And I love Tony.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. He's the best.

RIVERA: He actually writes me during the show.

GUILFOYLE: He loves "The Five." He's a great guy.

BOLLING: Is that your phone going off during the show?

GUILFOYLE: Is that Tony Orlando calling?

RIVERA: "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: It's time for "One More Thing." I'll go first.

Last night Stephen Colbert had Hillary Clinton on. But then he followed that up with someone who has been speculated as to maybe being nominated as a potential GOP nominee for president? Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's a no-no.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": And two no-nos make a yes?

RYAN: No. They make a firmer no, period.

Let me say it in clear English -- no!

COLBERT: OK, how about clear German?

RYAN: Nein!

COLBERT: Clear Russian?

RYAN: Nyet!

COLBERT: Wow, you seem to know a lot of foreign languages. That kind of international experience will really come in handy if you decide to accept the Republican nomination, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right. Colbert back to the establishment Republican character?

GUTFELD: Maybe.

BOLLING: Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: I was on Ninth Avenue at my buddy's steak house, West Side Steakhouse. Who walks up? Stephen Colbert, walking up the street with his lovely wife and says -- shook my hand and says, "Thank you for making me so much money." And then he walked away. Nice guy. OK. It was a really -- it really happened.

BOLLING: I don't get it.

GUTFELD: Because of the show. He used to show a lot of FOX News clips. So he's saying that our stuff made him wealthy.

BOLLING: Gotcha.

GUTFELD: And I punched him in the face.

RIVERA: He should go back to that.

GUTFELD: Yes.

All right. This Sunday, "Greg and Dana's Town Hall." It will be -- happen at Hershey Theater in Hershey, Pennsylvania, 7 p.m. We've got Larry Gatlin is going to be playing. We've got that dog. It's a meet and greet. It's going to be awesome. It's in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Ticket information, GGutfeld.com, HersheyEntertainment.com. It's a blast. You'll love it.

PERINO: Truth in advertising. It's just a flat dog.

GUILFOYLE: It's flat Jasper?

PERINO: Flat Jasper.

GUTFELD: Not a real dog.

BOLLING: And you're there two days before the Pennsylvania primary.

GUTFELD: Yes. We'll be talking about that.

PERINO: No one thought at the time when it was scheduled, no one thought that was really going to matter.

BOLLING: Classic timing.

GUILFOYLE: And it looks like Larry is on, like, riding Jasper. Like a horse.

PERINO: We've got to give Larry better billing.

BOLLING: Is it Flat Larry, too?

GUTFELD: Real Larry. It's real Larry.

PERINO: Real Larry.

RIVERA: The dog gets sweet billing.

GUILFOYLE: much better.

BOLLING: All right. You're up, Miss Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: You know what it's time for?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAPHIC: Kimberly's Royal News

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Got to make jokes, you know.

GUILFOYLE: Vikings and royals, what else does a girl need? OK.

So there's a new stamp out, and it's the cutest thing you have ever, ever seen. So this is to celebrate Queen Elizabeth II's 90th birthday tomorrow, but her great-grandson, Prince George, he steals the show. Take a look at how adorable he is in his little outfit, sitting there with his father and with Prince Charles. I think this is so charming. I wish we had a stamp like that.

GUTFELD: So it's not even for us. It's a royal stamp?

GUILFOYLE: What are you complaining about?

GUTFELD: Why are we doing that if we can't use it? What's the point, Kimberly? What's the point?

GUILFOYLE: Why are you yelling at me?

PERINO: It's a cute picture.

GUILFOYLE: Why does he yell at me? He's so anti-royal, right?

BOLLING: What was the Cheap Trick guitarist, what was his name?

GUTFELD: Rick Nielson?

BOLLING: Rick Nielson?

What's the guy who wore that outfit. AC/DC guy?

GUTFELD: Oh, oh, oh. Angus Young.

BOLLING: Angus Young. Didn't he wear that.

GUILFOYLE: It's a look-alike? A celebrity look-alike. The baby looks like Angus Young?

GUTFELD: AC/DC.

PERINO: All right. I want to -- I think Kimberly is going to like this. I'm wishing good luck to the Denver East High School Constitutional Scholars Team.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness.

PERINO: They are a team that they compete around for the Center for Civic Education. Basically, Kimberly, it allows them to testify as constitutional experts before panels of judges. And they're judged on that. They won the state competition in Colorado. They're going this weekend to the national competition. It starts Friday, May 22 -- I'm sorry, April 22, of course. It's not May yet. At the University of Maryland.

I'm very proud of them. In the past they've been able to meet, like, Supreme Court justices and senators. It's a great club. I am all for it.

GUILFOYLE: All for it. And this is an example of what you can be doing with your life if you want to win. Instead of, like, you know, being on the sidelines in life.

RIVERA: Tomorrow, the 30th anniversary of my biggest triumph and my worst disaster, the highest syndicated show ever, the opening of Al Capone's grave. Thirty years ago. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: Five, four, three, two, one.

I promised all the critics that if we didn't find anything I'd sing a song. So -- (SINGING) "Chicago, Chicago, that toddling town..."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: I went right across the street when I found nothing. I got tequila drunk.

BOLLING: There you go.

RIVERA: Then I went to the hotel, do not disturb. I had 22 job offers.

BOLLING: All right. Going to have to leave it right there. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" next.

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