Montel Williams on Kasich's presidential run; Gen. Flynn on fallout from Obama's defense of Clinton

Activist and Kasich supporter shares his thoughts about the state of the 2016 presidential race in a 'Kelly File' interview


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," April 11, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight. Now fallout in a white hot political fight after Ted Cruz wins Colorado and Donald Trump cries foul.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Donald Trump tonight rallied more than 10,000 supporters in good old Albany, New York. The next state to hit the polls in what is predicted to be highly favorable territory for the New York businessman. This comes after two setbacks for the Trump campaign. First, a loss in Wisconsin and then a rough weekend in Colorado where Ted Cruz won every delegate in a system that Donald Trump says is rigged. Watch.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a rigged system so in Colorado, they were going to vote and you saw what happened in Colorado.  It's one of the big things. It's a fix because if I go to the voters of Colorado, we win Colorado. So it's a crooked, crooked system.


KELLY: Cruz is just kicking off a rally in California where he seems to have shifted his focus and was earlier defending his weekend win.  Declaring that Donald Trump's complaints are par for the course.


SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald has been yelling and screaming. A lot of whining.


And the latest thing he seized upon is when people vote against him, they're stealing the election.


It's a really odd notion.


KELLY: In moments we have two big guests. Trump adviser Steven Miller and former Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett.

But first, Trace Gallagher explains why all the controversy. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the Trump campaign says it's very confident he will get the 1,237 delegates needed to win the nomination and yet Donald Trump is arguing he shouldn't need 1,237 saying, whoever gets the most should automatically win. Trump believes the process, as you pointed out, is crooked and rigged against him and he points to what happened this weekend in Colorado where Ted Cruz completed his sweep of Colorado's 34 delegates. Here's Trump on "FOX & FRIENDS."


TRUMP: But the people out there are going crazy, you know, the Denver area and Colorado, itself. And they're going absolutely crazy because they weren't given a vote.  


GALLAGHER: Even some Colorado GOP Party leaders admit their state process for choosing national delegates is confusing and excludes way too many voters. But the information about the Colorado contest certainly wasn't secret or as the Cruz campaign retweeted, the rules, quote, "were publicly available for months to people who know how to read and understand words."  And it's not as if the Trump campaign was blanketing Colorado.

Trump didn't put a paid staffer on the ground there until last week and when the Trump campaign finally distributed its list of preferred Colorado delegates, the list was riddled with errors and misspellings. The Trump camp blames that on getting bad information. And Donald Trump's newly hired convention manager, Paul Manafort says, the campaign will be filing several protests accusing Ted Cruz of not playing by the rules and using Gestapo tactics to win delegates. The Cruz campaign responds accusing Trump camp of lashing out with falsehoods to distract from their failures - - Megyn.  

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Well, across hundreds of media outlets today, the Trump argument raged on. Is this system rigged? Is this fair? Should it stand? Rush Limbaugh has supported both Cruz and Trump at different times. He offered this take.  


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Now, what happened in Colorado is I'm sorry to say, it's not a trick, it's no secret that Colorado was going to have a convention, and they're going to choose their delegates before the primary. It's not a secret so it was left to be discovered by people who didn't know.  


KELLY: Joining us now, senior adviser to the Trump campaign, Stephen Miller. Stephen, thank you for being here with us tonight. What do you make of Russia's take on it? He's been very fair to Mr. Trump. He thinks, you know, that the homework wasn't done.  

STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I'm going to say something, Megyn, that's extremely controversial right now. I think that in America, people should get to vote for who they want to be president. I was in Colorado. And I can safely say, there was no election in Colorado.  Zero people voted for president in Colorado. They canceled the election.  And I think it's an important conversation for us to have right now about whether that's fair and that's right.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Well, that's what you're going for. You don't think that the system is fair. And to be honest, I think many people didn't understand that we have primaries and we have caucuses and then we have a few states that do this other weird thing Colorado does which is called, like, a convention system where you just elect some delegates and then they'll go and figure things out. But they are going to support Ted Cruz in this instance. In any event, so you don't think that's fair, but fair or not, it is what the people of Colorado put in place last August.

MILLER: Well, the people of Colorado didn't put it in place. The Republican Party of Colorado canceled the election. They had election in 2012 and they didn't have one in 2016. But here's why I think it's unfair.  Let me give a very specific example. Imagine that you are a soldier serving overseas who fought to secure Iraqi elections. Remember everyone with the purple finger? You, a soldier who went overseas to Iraq, she now can't vote in America's election in her home state. That just seems crazy to me.

KELLY: So let's say you're right and, I mean, they've got this wacky system and the people of Colorado, some of whom are very ticked off about this, say, we don't like that, right? They kept on just redo it the next time around. Is there any remedy now other than just sort of saying --

MILLER: Well, I'm so glad you asked that question because something really marvelous happened tonight in Albany. Donald Trump --

KELLY: Albany, Albany, Stephen, come on.  


MILLER: The -- the -- Donald Trump said that he is going to reform the rules of nominations if he becomes president of the United States. So, he'll work with the RNC to do that. I think it's something to celebrate.  I think Americans should be excited about Democratic reform and if you really look at what's happening here, and look, I understand that these are the rules. We all do. But that's a weak thing to say, well they are the rules so this should never change. What's happening here is that insiders --

KELLY: I don't know that they shouldn't change. You know, you heard Ted Cruz sort of saying, hey, he knew and that's too bad and saying that you don't get to come out and say it's rigged when it was out there, it was changed, it was public and, you know, they just didn't win.  

MILLER: Well, the part though was rigged, and you know, I don't want to get into all the negatives but I will say, the part that was rigged because I was there, I saw it firsthand, I was in the district delegate meetings, is I heard people shouting out loud that names were missing from ballots, the numbers didn't correspond to names. They would bring up easels and say, everyone write down these names which aren't on the ballots and then sometimes they would hand out the ballots --

KELLY: I know. But then Trump campaign detractors said, that's because -- you heard in the Trace Gallagher report, because the list of preferred Trump delegates in Colorado was riddled with errors which they blame on team Trump. I mean, shouldn't you be --

MILLER: I mean, what I saw had nothing to do with that and my only regret is that I didn't invite the cameras of FOX News into the rooms so people could see what I saw.  

KELLY: Are we allowed in there?

MILLER: I don't know, actually.

KELLY: All right. Probably the next -- there are a few more of these.  

MILLER: One of the reforms that we could perhaps put in after Mr. Trump is elected is to get FOX News cameras inside of these meetings so people can see.  

KELLY: It's a date.  

MILLER: But I'm telling you, it was chaos inside the room.

KELLY: I got to run. Thank you for being here.  

MILLER: Thank you.  

KELLY: Also joining us with more, Bill Bennett, he served as secretary of education under President Reagan and is author of the new book "Tried by Fire: The Story of Christianity's First Thousand Years." Bill, great to see you. Thank you so much for being here tonight.

BILL BENNETT, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION UNDER PRESIDENT REAGAN: Thanks, Megyn. You don't think greatness is possible in Albany, you don't think greatness can happen in Albany?

KELLY: I didn't like that he said Albany. That's my hometown. It's Albany. We'll also accept smallbany, but we will not accept Albany.

BENNETT: Got it. Okay.  

KELLY: First nine years in Syracuse, the rest in Albany. I know what I speak.

BENNETT: There you go. There you go.

KELLY: So, question for you about Stephen Miller's testimonial. Agree or disagree?

BENNETT: I don't agree. By the way, I'm not a Kasich guy or a Cruz guy or a Trump guy. I guess I'm Mrs. Bennett's guy. But last time I was anybody's guy, it was Reagan. But Stephen Miller shouldn't dictate what Colorado does. That's the way they set it in up Colorado. We do not have a pure democracy here. We have a constitutional Republic. And states do things in different ways. That's the way Colorado decided to do it. I think the crucial point is that Donald Trump and his people were not kept out of Colorado. They could have gone in and done the exact same thing Ted Cruz's people did. They just chose not to do it.  

KELLY: But what about his point that the people never voted for this? He says, you know, the people never got to vote.

BENNETT: Well, I'm an alternate delegate in North Carolina, thanks to my friend, Claude Pope. And I probably won't go because I imagine everyone's going to want to go to this convention. There isn't going to be much room for alternates. But the states have different rules and the rules belong to the people who put them in place. These are the activists in the state.  The people who want to get engaged. The people who want to get involved.  You get to vote for president, you know, in November, and that vote counts.

However, there, again, it's not a pure democracy. You can ask Al Gore about that. He had 500,000 more votes than George Bush, but he lost to George Bush because of the Electoral College. We have a complicated and intricate system and it's designed by people at the federal level and at the state level to get the results that they want and if you want to get engaged and involved and change it, that's what you do but you can't be a bystander and just point and say, that's not the way you do it. They decide how they want to do it.  

KELLY: What's happening here, and the reason this is relevant, is because we have such a tight contest on the Republican side.  

BENNETT: Sure, sure.  

KELLY: And these guys are really duking it out to see whether Trump can get to 1,237, not realistic to Cruz or Kasich to do it.


KELLY: Prior to July. But they're trying to deny 1237 to Donald Trump.  Well, every delegate matters. And Cruz has been very well organized in these states that require organization. What does that tell you about this race and the parties involved?

BENNETT: It tells you that organization means a lot in politics. Ground game means a lot in politics. There you can consult Hillary Clinton and ask her about Barack Obama and his ground game and this is something we'll consider again at the time of the general, but these things matter. That kind of organization, that kind of getting people out, getting their enthusiasm, getting to the caucuses. I was in instructed on what it would mean to be a delegate. And by the way, all this stuff about the RNC is in charge, Cruz is in charge, or Trump -- these delegates are in charge and these are very active and smart people.

And when I was briefed on what it meant to be a delegate, it's very complicated. You have to make a major commitment and so they'll be the people who ultimately decide it. But look, this is what happens. It's happened before in America. '76, Ford-Reagan. It will happen again. This is red hot tempers, red tape, but it's better than red blood which is what they do in other countries.  

KELLY: What do you -- you know, understand the obligation, like when they talk to you about, okay, you're bound on the first vote but then it's a second vote, anything could happen. Because we're being told the delegates can be wooed, they can wine and dine you, say, Bill, how would you like to come to Mar-a-Lago or I guess Ted Cruz could have you down to the ranch.


I mean, what do they tell you you're allowed to take? Well, how can they woo you appropriately?

BENNETT: You know, this is James Madison buying drinks, right, for the delegates in Virginia, our very own founding father. All sorts of things can happen that will turn on the rules. But, yes, it was explained to me if I'm an alternate delegate and a delegate drops it, I get that delegate's position, I have to vote for the person on the first ballot whom that delegate supports and if that person was John Kasich or Marco Rubio or someone we've forgotten by now, I still have to do that. That's my obligation. What about my right to vote for who I want to? That's now how the system is set up.  

KELLY: What do you think of the odds of them parachuting in somebody who is not running for president right now to step in?

BENNETT: I think they're small. You know, I think they're small, but I'll tell you, this is a crazy year. Anything can happen. But it's in the hands of the delegates. And I know a lot of these delegates and frankly, I trust them. I've been all over this country. I've met with tons of delegates. I'd rather see it in their hands. You know, they're like the Republican phonebook, you know, that Bill Buckley talked about. I'll take them over the experts.

KELLY: Fascinating. Bill, great to see you. Good luck with the book.  

BENNETT: Thank you, Megyn.  

KELLY: So, while Trump is accusing Ted Cruz of cheating, there are new reports that John Kasich may be trying to help Donald Trump win this nomination. Montel Williams just came out for Kasich. He's here on that.  

Plus, President Obama's now trying to argue that Mrs. Clinton broke no secrecy rules with her e-mail. But one of the President's former top Intel guys says his old boss is very wrong. And General Michael Flynn is here to tell us why.

And then, there's an explosive new claim about 28 highly classified pages from the 9/11 report that could prove one of our allies may have been helping the attackers. Former Senator Bob Graham has seen them. Not many people have. He's here on why he thinks these pages must be released.


TRUMP: You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center because they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it's the Saudis, okay, but you will find out.



KELLY: Breaking tonight. We are seeing new reports that GOP front-runner Donald Trump may be getting some help from one of his opponents. Some pundits are suggesting that Governor John Kasich is making moves that appear designed specifically to help Trump. Trace Gallagher live in our Westcoast Newsroom. Trace.

GALLAGHER: Megyn, John Kasich believes both Donald Trump and Ted Cruz would get killed in the election by Hillary Clinton and says he is the only one who can beat her. Kasich also knows he stands zero chance of winning the nomination in the primaries but is staying in the race because during a contested convention, he thinks delegates would see that he is the most electable. Here's Kasich.


GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So what we really need to do is get these people, these critics to get behind me and get their people to drop out so we can actually beat Hillary Clinton.


GALLAGHER: Political analyst Seth Abramson writes in the "Huffington Post" that he thinks we'll end up with a Kasich/Marco Rubio ticket primarily because they would appeal to mainstream Republicans, Tea Partiers, along with nonwhite voters and many young voters. Of course there's the sticky issue of Marco Rubio who dropped out a month ago still having more delegates than John Kasich. And now many are wondering about the possibility of John Kasich being Donald Trump's running mate. Over the weekend, the Kasich campaign actually teamed up with the Trump campaign in Michigan to help Trump's delegates get committee positions at the GOP convention in July.

Positions that would otherwise have gone to Ted Cruz. Kasich's team says they helped out Trump because Ted Cruz is trying to scoop up too many delegates. Analysts say the favor to Trump may mean nothing, or it could mean if given a choice, Kasich would take trump over Cruz -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Joining me now with more, Montel Williams who's an activist, former TV host, former naval intelligence officer, and a supporter of presidential candidate Governor John Kasich. Great to see you, Montel. Thanks for being here.

MONTEL WILLIAMS, FORMER TV HOST: Good to see you, too, Megyn, thanks for having me.  

KELLY: Do you think there's any chance that John Kasich is really in this to support Donald Trump?

WILLIAMS: Your question is a great question, but it's absurd. Absolutely absurd. I think John has been on a record standing out equivocally that he wants a fair process and I think if you take a look at the entire landscape, why would he not position himself this way? Because the more in this particular situation he can drop Trump/Cruz, he can also trump Trump.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

WILLIAMS: No one is going to go to this convention with the magic number.  

KELLY: So he's being strategic. You can't read too much into the actions about supporting one guy or another, he's being strategic for himself.  

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And I think unequivocally, people need to remember history in itself. Remember, you know, Lincoln wasn't picked until the third round. So truthfully, this can be -- you were talking about it earlier, what happens to these delegates after the first vote?

KELLY: Uh-hm.

WILLIAMS: All bets are off.  

KELLY: Well, that's why there's this article in the "Huffington Post" on their eight reasons why the GOP ticket will be Kasich/Rubio they said.  They said, Trump is not going to get it in the first one.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

KELLY: They said if you think the establishment is going to go for Ted Cruz, you're crazy.  

WILLIAMS: Correct.  

KELLY: And they're going to look at one thing which is who can beat Hillary, and they say that's where John Kasich comes in.  

WILLIAMS: And you look at the numbers, the numbers are actually factual.  You know, if it's Kasich against Hillary Clinton, he crushes her.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

WILLIAMS: If it's Kasich against Bernie, he or Bernie's got an opportunity there but I think if we get into the general election and they're both running, I think Kasich will close that gap.  

KELLY: Two points on that. Number one is, people on the Trump team and on Cruz say, Kasich hadn't gotten it that bad, he's never been the front- runner so he didn't have all the cannons aimed at him so his numbers would go down and those matchups would not be as favorable to him. The other thing they say is, Ted Cruz said to me recently the Republican nominee is not going to be a guy who lost 49 states.  

WILLIAMS: Yes, but you also take a look at the fact that neither one of the Democratic candidates ever bring up Kasich's name, and why? Because its fear. They talk about the guy that they're really afraid of, they'll make everybody else understand his legitimacy behind the Kasich camp. They know that he's the guy that can beat them, so I really think this is all strategic and strategic on the Democratic side also.  

KELLY: You know, the Republican Party has this problem, it's had this problem repeatedly where there's a candidate who matches up well against the Democrat in that general election but that candidate cannot get out of the Republican primary. And I don't know that they've figured out for themselves what the issue is. You know, for years people have been saying, we need to nominate a true conservative and that's the person who -- and Ted Cruz is still making that argument. But so many others in the party this year are saying, we don't care about conservatism, we want somebody to blow up the system.  

WILLIAMS: They want a Reagan Republican. Well, listen to what a Reagan Republican is. He's a person that's inclusive, he's a person that listens.  He's a person that works with both sides to see if he can come up with a solution. That was the Republican I was. I left the Republican Party after Ronald Reagan because the Republican Party left me. And now I'm an independent. But for the first time, I actually see a candidate that's looking at America the day after the election. Not the day of.

KELLY: Thirty seconds left.  


KELLY: Why don't you like Cruz? Why don't you like Trump?

WILLIAMS: I will tell you on Cruz, my perspective, I would say, most of the military people I've actually spoken to, I cannot vote for Donald Trump. He's a person who literally, obviate his responsibility and sought a deferment at a time when there were people in this country dying and wrote about how lucky he was to get away with that being able to chase women, one, and now he wants to be the commander-in-chief and send other people's children off to die, not happening.  

KELLY: He said he had that kind of injury --

WILLIAMS: Yes, whatever, okay? That's really -- he also wrote about the fact that he got away with that in his book. And I'm so sorry, I just do not believe that Mr. Cruz represents the mindset of anybody in America.  Except his own.

KELLY: Montel Williams. Great to see you. Thanks for being here.  

WILLIAMS: Thanks for having me.  

KELLY: Further updates to follow.  

Coming up, President Obama is setting off some alarms with his new effort to defend Secretary Clinton on her e-mail scandal. One of the President's former Intel guys, one of the top guys, Lieutenant General Michael Flynn is here tonight on why he thinks his old boss is very, very wrong here and out of line.  

Plus, a new book takes us back to 1995 and some behind the scenes from when then-First Lady Hillary Clinton decided to stand by her husband. The author reveals why she did it. Coming up.


ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.  

KELLY: Tonight we have a fact check for you on President Obama's newest defense of Hillary Clinton in her ongoing e-mail scandal. In an interview on "Fox News Sunday" yesterday Chris Wallace asked President Obama to weigh in on the ongoing investigation into Mrs. Clinton's private e-mail server.  The President could have declined to answer saying, he wanted to avoid influencing an open case, instead we heard this.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Here's what I know. Hillary Clinton was an outstanding secretary of state. She would never intentionally put America in any kind of jeopardy. There's stuff that is really top secret, top secret. And there's stuff that is being presented to the President or the Secretary of State that you might not want on the transit or yes, going out over the wire but is basically stuff that you could get in open source.  

CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, "FOX NEWS SUNDAY": But last October you were prepared to say, she hadn't jeopardized. And the question is, can you still say that?

OBAMA: Well, I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America's national security.  


KELLY: In moments we will hear from one of President Obama's former top intelligence officers, Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, on that statement.

But first we go to Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge live tonight in Washington. Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Megyn, as part of our fact check we had a former senior intelligence official weigh in on the President's suggestion that some classified information is more deserving of its top-secret label. And we were told that even if highly classified information shows up in "The New York Times," a security clearance holder is still obligated to protect it and neither confirm nor deny the news report's accuracy.  


DALE MEYERROSE, FORMER CEO OF THE U.S. INTEL COMMUNITY: If I see what has been deemed classified information no matter what level it is in open media, it is my responsibility not to acknowledge it.


HERRIDGE: And we checked out Mr. Obama's statement to Chris Wallace that Mrs. Clinton did not intentionally harm National Security and we learned today it was not based on information from the FBI or Justice Department.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The President has neither sought nor received a confidential briefing or confidential information about the ongoing investigation. The President's knowledge about this situation is based entirely on public reporting.  


HERRIDGE: In our ongoing reporting of the Clinton e-mail investigation here at FOX has shown that Mr. Obama, himself, exchanged 19 e-mails with then-Secretary of State Clinton using her personal e-mail account. The e- mails don't contain classified information but still aren't public because they involved executive branch discussions. Legal experts now question whether Mr. Obama has a personal conflict.


THOMAS DUPREE, FORMER DOJ OFFICIAL: If there's the possibility, and it looks like there's evidence that he was in some sense involved in what happened, was aware of what happened, could potentially be a witness to what happened, he shouldn't be making public statements prejudging the outcome of something that he could have personal involvement in.


HERRIDGE: Today the White House acknowledged that Mr. Obama knew that Clinton e-mail address but didn't know about her private server -- Megyn.  

KELLY: Catherine, thank you.

Well, the president also raising eyebrows with his declaration that Mrs. Clinton has not put the country at risk.


OBAMA: I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America's national security. Now what I've always said is that, and she's acknowledged, that there's a carelessness in terms of managing e-mails that she has owned and she recognizes.


KELLY: Joining me now, Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, who is President Obama's former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency or DIA. The DIA is like the CIA except they provide intelligence to the military. General, good to see you tonight.


KELLY: So, I'm very curious to get your thoughts. You were the first person I thought of when I heard this yesterday. Your reaction to the president's comments?

FLYNN: Yes. Well, first of all, the president should have either gone into that interview and told Chris Wallace I'm not going to answer anything on this account because it's under investigation. There's a very, very serious investigation going on and there are at least from what I understand, at least 100 FBI agents involved in this thing.

The interesting thing, though, Megyn, that, you know, for the president to use the word carelessness, I mean, so there's a -- you know, if it's classified, it's classified, period, you know, like the president says, stop all engines kind of thing.

This issue of carelessness that the president raised, so he made -- he sort of made this point, you know, so, we're careless with highly classified intelligence, we're careless with, what, the decision to go into Libya? He also talked a little bit about that.

We're careless -- this is now Hillary Clinton, we're careless with the Russian reset, we're careless with the pivot to the Pacific? So, if there's a persistence of carelessness which means you're prone to making mistakes and you have a judgment problem, the other thing that I think that exists here is the lack of accountability. And I just think despite what the president said about she's owned up to it, there's just such incredible lack of accountability for the use of highly classified information and intelligence that's at the highest levels of our government.

And we know she knew that she is a target of nation states like Russia, China, et cetera, and, I mean, we hear more and more about this kind of stuff these days. To me, it's just unbelievable that the fact that the president, the president said she was careless and I agree with him. She was very careless. But that carelessness to me is also an indifference and, frankly, a lack of accountability.

KELLY: Let's talk about, you know, your view on whether she has jeopardized our national security or not. I mean, this was your industry, this is your business for many years. Do you agree with the president? Is he able to say that?

FLYNN: No, I don't agree with the president, not one bit. I do not agree with the President of the United States saying, and he should not have said it, he should have stayed away from it because it's under investigation.

But the potential here to have a divulged highly classified information as has been described by the State Department, by the inspector general from the national intelligence community, that there has been a basically an exposure of highly classified information on an unclassified capability meaning her detractor...


KELLY: And you believe the Chinese could have accessed it and others?

FLYNN: Yes, I mean, hey, look, Megyn, whenever I had to travel overseas, I had to change my entire system and I never used a personal device, anyway, because the government would issue me a classified means to communicate.

Why did Hillary Clinton believe that she was above that? I don't know. That's something that they're going to find out in the investigation and that's going to lead to some other problems for her, but that the...


KELLY: What did you make of the president's statement that, you know, there's top secret, then there's top secret.

FLYNN: Yes, that the -- it's, you know, it's classified or it's not, and we now know that there are highly classified, you know, e-mails that she shared, like he says, when something goes over the transom, president said this, over the transom or, you know, through the wires. I mean, let's not make light of this.

This is unbelievable. This is unprecedented for a member of the senior member of the National Security Council, the Secretary of State to do this, and all these excuses about, well, other secretaries have done this in the past. No, they have not. Not in the way that we have seen Hillary Clinton do this.

And frankly, because I just don't think that she feels that she's accountable to the people of this country, frankly, certainly to those of us that have -- that have done this for a living and she had many, many people in the department of state that were willing to work on her behalf to do the kinds of things that were the right things to do.

And, Megyn, they're the right things to do but they're absolutely the right things to do. And she just, she decided that she didn't need to follow those rules. And that, you know, that makes me -- that makes me angry as an American that she felt like she did not have to follow the rules that the rest of us in government had to follow.

KELLY: General Flynn, thank you for being here.

FLYNN: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, within 24 hours of that interview with the president, the Washington, D.C., based web site, Politico, published a report that reviewed dozens of recent federal investigations into alleged mishandling of classified records and concluded it is highly unlikely that Mrs. Clinton will face any charges here.

We asked Judge Andrew Napolitano to review the report. He's a Fox News senior judicial analyst. Judge, what did you find? I mean, they are basically saying that this kind of case would not typically be prosecuted.

ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: The cases on which they relied are cases of one-offs, cases of people making mistakes, people leaving things in their briefcase and taking the briefcase home.

Alberto Gonzalez, the attorney general, apparently did that and attorney general of President George W. Bush, with classified information in the briefcase, brought it back and realized that he had done so and self- reported.

They can't find anything of this magnitude of 2,200 e-mails that are confidential, secret, or top secret. Sixty five that are secret or top secret, 22 that are top secret. Four that are so secret the FBI agents are investigating and they can't look at them because they lack the security clearance.

KELLY: But here's -- but two points. Number one, she's saying what the president is saying which is don't believe that. When you get a look at these, you will see these are not the be all, end all. There's things you could have seen and did see in some instances in the paper but they had been labeled top secret and they weren't really.

That's number one. And secondly, she says this was all as a result of, you know, carelessness. Inadvertent on her. She never intentionally gave anybody classified info.

NAPOLITANO: That is very, very dangerous for her to say that. General Flynn is correct, it's very dangerous for the president to say that and here's why. Espionage. The removal of state secrets from a secure place to a non-secure place is one of the few federal crimes that can be proven by negligence.

Now, it's not simple carelessness, it's gross negligence. But I suggest to you, and here's where the Politico article was off the wall. It wasn't even remotely near this. If you do this, regularly, consistently, and systemically 2,200 times over the course of four years and you don't care that you removed national secrets from a secure venue, the place that sent them to her, to a non-secure venue, the server in the basement of her house, that is gross negligence.

On top of that, there are two e-mails from her from which the government could argue intent. There are two e-mails that she sent to one of her assistant saying remove the secret marking on it. Send it from your fax to my fax, nobody will know the difference. That shows an intention to break the law.


KELLY: And she's not -- whether the question is whether she could have declassified it because it was a State Department or whether she...


NAPOLITANO: She couldn't because she wasn't the author of the document.

KELLY: All right. So, that's different. So, I want to ask you this, though. Was President Obama -- you know, obviously Wallace asked him to do it, doesn't mean he had to do it.

NAPOLITANO: Right. Right.

KELLY: But he commented on it in a way that some people are saying, you know, you're sending a message to the DOJ, you know, like, no there, there. Got me?

NAPOLITANO: I don't think he can do that with the professional cadre of FBI agents that have been assigned to this case.

KELLY: But what about the DOJ?

NAPOLITANO: Well, I agree with General Flynn and agree with the lawyer that Catherine Herridge just interviewed. It is reprehensible for the president to have answered those questions. And here's why.

Because he may be a witness in this case. He has an absolute conflict if he is the officer who decides whether or not this evidence is going to be presented to a grand jury. And the conflict is do I want to expose myself to this or do I not want to expose myself to that?

When you have that personal involvement in a case, you can't be the decision maker and for the president to have opined -- she was a great attorney general, her e-mails didn't harm anybody. Harm isn't the test here. Her greatness or the absence of it isn't the test here. The test here is that she knowingly, regularly, consistently and systemically exposed national secrets to the gaze of those who would harm us. As an answer is yes.

KELLY: He said that. He spoke to that, too, he said she never would have intentionally done that. Got to go. Good to see you, judge.

NAPOLITANO: Good to see you.

KELLY: So, coming up, there's an explosive new claim about 28 highly classified pages from the 9/11 report. Did you see 60 Minutes last night? That could prove that one of our allies may have been helping our attackers.

Former Senator Bob Graham is one of the few who has seen these documents. He's here next on why he thinks they must be released. Don't miss this.


KELLY: A new details tonight on an explosive new claim about 28 highly classified pages from the 9/11 report that could prove our allies in Saudi Arabia may have been helping the attackers. The pages have been locked up for 13 years viewed only by a select few. And now some of those folks want them released.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is implausible to believe that 19 people, most of whom didn't speak English, most of whom had never been in the United States before, many of whom didn't have a high school education, could have carried out such a complicated task without some support from within the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you believe that the 28 pages are crucial to this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are a key part.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 9/11 commission report says that Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of Al Qaeda funding through its wealthy citizens and charities with significant government sponsorship.

But the sentence that got the most attention when the report came out is this. "We have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organization."

Attorney Sean Carter says it's the most carefully crafted line in the 9/11 commission report and the most misunderstood.

SEAN CARTER, 9/11 VICTIMS ATTORNEY REPRESENTATIVE: When they say that we found no evidence that senior Saudi officials individually funded Al Qaeda, they conspicuously leave open the potential that they found evidence that people who were officials that they did not regard as senior officials had done so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Lehman, who was Secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration, says that he and the others make up a solid majority of former 9/11 commissioners who think the 28 pages should be made public.

JOHN LEHMAN, FORMER U.S. NAVY SECRETARY: It was no accident that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. They all went to Saudi schools. They learned from the time they were first able to go to school of this intolerant brand of Islam.


KELLY: CBS and "60 Minutes" doing an explosive report there. Bob Graham is former chairman of the Senate select committee on intelligence and former co-chair of the bipartisan joint congressional inquiry into intelligence failures surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

Great to see you, sir. Thank you for being with us here tonight.


KELLY: So, you want these 28 pages released. You've seen them. What are you at liberty to tell us about them?

GRAHAM: Not much because I am still under an oath that I took not to disclose classified information, but it has been said publicly that this chapter primarily relates to who financed 9/11 and that it points a finger at Saudi Arabia.

KELLY: When you look at that statement that was in the 9/11 report saying "We found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organization."

You can drive a truck through that sentence; there are a lot of holes in there. Senior Saudi officials which doesn't rule out non-senior Saudi officials or the government as something other than acting as an institution.

GRAHAM: And one of the things that makes this even more confusing is that the concept of sovereign immunity, that is the king can do no wrong and, therefore, you cannot sue the king, has been used by Saudi Arabia not only to cover the official government, but also charities, private foundations, religious organizations.

All had been put under the umbrella of sovereign immunity, so the question of where does the government end and the rest of the Saudi society begin is very murky.

KELLY: So, that explains their motivation for trying to, you know, potentially obfuscate the facts but what is our motivation? Why would the United States not be releasing this information and letting us all know whether our allies were, in fact, behind this attack?

GRAHAM: Megyn, I think that's inexplicable. There was some reasons to suggest why under the Bush administration they might have wanted to have avoided this disclosure, such as we were looking to Saudi Arabia for substantial amount of intelligence and other assistance in the period after 9/11.

The Bush family had had a close relationship with the house of Saud going back for three generations. But why under the Obama administration they have continued this policy when there is mounting evidence not just the 28 pages, but other issues that have involved the Saudis and 9/11, which, to me, makes it not only disrespectful to the American people not to allow them to have the transparency of knowing what their government has done in their name when it does not involve a national security risk.

In fact, I think it actually increases our vulnerability because it allows the Saudis to continue feeling that there's no sanction against them to fund terrorist activities and to train the next generation of terrorist in mosque and madrassas, schools that are financed by Saudi Arabia.

KELLY: The White House is reviewing it again to see whether declassification is appreciate. We'll stay on it. Senator, thank you for being here.

GRAHAM: Great. Thank you very much.

KELLY: And up next, a new book dishes on what's described as an icy relationship between first lady Michelle Obama and former first lady now presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton. The author tells us what the story is next.


KELLY: First on the Kelly File tonight, revealing new information about the often mysterious lives of our first ladies. A new book is released the details the secret scandals, unlikely friendships and bitter feuds that are played out among the women of the White House.

Joining me now, author of "First Women," Kate Andersen Brower. Great to see you.


KELLY: And her first book "The Residence" is awesome and actually we're working together to make it into a huge success on camera. But that's a different story. But let's talk about the "First Women" because you got some juicy nuggets in here and it starts with the overall premise that what?

BROWER: Well, there is a sisterhood among these women that transcends political party. You know, you have republicans or friends with democrats, Hillary and Michelle, for instance, not getting along so well and these are two democrats who you would expect to get along.

But then Lady Bird Johnson with Betty Ford. In fact, keeping a framed photo of Betty Ford on her bedside table to her desk. And the idea that these people know what it's like to be in the White House. It's one of the hardest jobs being first lady.

You're a wife, you're a mother. You campaigned very hard for your husband. They go through these tumultuous campaigns and they are the only people who know what that's like.

KELLY: On this sisterhood you talk about the 2008 election when Hillary Clinton cried before New Hampshire. And an aide to Laura Bush said, that's a publicity stunt.

BROWER: Exactly. And Laura Bush said you have no idea what it's like. And Laura Bush said the same thing when Michelle Obama said, you know, I'm proud of my country for the first time. Laura Bush in an interview later said, you know, she probably didn't mean to say it quite like that. So, she came to Michelle's defense again and you see that again and again.

KELLY: She's a class act.


KELLY: Why don't Michelle and Hillary like each other or why is it cold?

BROWER: Well, you know, Michelle looks at the Clinton kind of this like political dynasty that came before them. Michelle Obama can't wait to leave the White House. She's very anxious to get out. And obviously Hillary Clinton can't wait to get back into the White House.

So, they're incredibly different women and that then speaks to that, you know, Hillary and Michelle really have very little in common, but, yet, Michelle has so much more in common with Laura.

KELLY: We're going to stand you by because we're going to have more in the break and we'll be right back with Kate.


KELLY: Again, the book is called "First Women." Go to to hear more of my interview with Kate. And also tomorrow night in a "Kelly File" exclusive, Heidi Cruz. For the first time on that tweet, the National Inquirer and more.

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