Trump hurt? Cruz unlikable?

Campaign hits N.Y. maelstrom


This is a rush transcript from "MediaBuzz," April 10, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: On our buzzmeter, the campaign runs smack into the New York press corps as Donald Trump tries to bounce back in his home state after losing Wisconsin. And Ted Cruz gets a Bronx cheer.


DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, lying Ted Cruz came today. He couldn't draw 100 people. Do you remember during the debate when he started lecturing me on New York values, like we're no good.

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Ted, this obviously should have was said. And we know what you meant. But New Yorkers are taking it a different way. So, deal with it head on.

DANA BASH: When you saw this, what did you make of that?

SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I laughed out loud. Look, I have never been popular with left wing journalists or tabloids. And, frankly, that's not my target audience.


KURTZ: And are the media now overhyping the chances of a contested convention? Hillary Clinton losing Wisconsin and now Wyoming, pushing back in New York against Brooklyn's Bernie Sanders who says she's not qualified to be president.

Is the press finally doubting that she'll coast to victory? "Saturday Night Live" back in the headlines for taking a few whacks at the Donald.




KURTZ: And the post Jon Stewart era comedy shows still hurt the candidates?

Plus, my sit down with Jill Kelley smeared by the media as the other, other woman in the David Petraeus sex scandal now reveals their private e-mails how Petraeus deceived her and why it was a mistake to stay silent.

I'm Howard Kurtz. And this is "MediaBuzz."

And Ted Cruz easily beat Donald Trump in Wisconsin this week. The pundits offered a mixed verdict on whether this was a major defeat for Trump or just made it slightly harder for him to reach the magic delegate number of 1237.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: There's something about his support that is so solid that despite the loss in the face of all this, it shows a remarkable staying power.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: Cruz victory making it almost impossible now for Donald Trump to reach the magic 1237 delegate number before the republican convention.


KURTZ: Trump's campaign ripped Cruz saying he's a Trojan horse for a GOP establishment is trying to steal the nomination from the billionaire and some in the media found that too harsh.


NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS: I think he acted like a baby. I just think, you know, it's time to be magnanimous, you lost, you lost, move on. Shut up.


KURTZ: The Texas senator landing on the cover of Time with a condescending headline, "likeable enough"? And some pundits struggling to understand his appeal.


CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC: I'm a city guy. I don't get the Cruz thing. I don't get him.


KURTZ: Joining us now to analyze the coverage, Heidi Przybyla, senior political correspondent for USA Today, Gayle Trotter, a commentator who writes for The Daily Caller and The Hill, and Mara Liasson in National Public Radio, a Fox News contributor.

Heidi, is there a manic depressive quality to the coverage from Cruz has totally changed the race by beating Trump in Wisconsin to Trump's going to be on a roll when he creams Cruz in New York?

HEIDI PRYZBYLA, USA TODAY: Gee, the media is in such a quandary that Trump had this air of almost inevitability about him prior to Wisconsin. And then Wisconsin happened. And it completely blew up the narrative.

Now I think a lot of people are confused on which way to go. The truth of the matter is if you look at the numbers, 90 percent say they're now expecting this contested convention which a lot of reporters have no clue how to kind of read those tea leaves and how the delegates are going to line up.

And it's going to become very confusing process shifting from just covering state by state coverage to delegate math and the intricacies of how these different state conventions work.

KURTZ: A Fox News blog this morning by the way, has Trump at 54 percent in New York, more than twice as much as Kasich and Cruz combined.

Gayle, that statement I referred to on the night of the Wisconsin loss by the Trump campaign said that Cruz is breaking the law by coordinating with his super PACs. It didn't offer any evidence. Didn't impressed move Donald to quickly from that particularly controversial statement?

GAYLE TROTTER, THE DAILY CALLER: I think they did but I think that the public is not really interested in this. Because we have a back and forth. You know, Cruz made the allegations that the Trump campaign planted the "National Enquirer" story. That had as little evidence as Trump's statement that Cruz had coordinated illegally with the super PAC. I think the public is really not interested.

KURTZ: Not interested in which part? Because isn't it our job as journalists to blow the whistle when one candidate makes a charge with no since hell of evidence against another candidate?

TROTTER: Certainly. I mean, the journalists need to put the facts out there. But then it's the public's role to decide if they're interested in pursuing it.

KURTZ: On Sunday morning, Donald Trump on zero Sunday shows. He's been a little bit low key since losing Wisconsin. He had the big rally on Long Island and every cable news network had to awaiting Trump rally as if it's almost like they don't know what to do when he's not out there blasting away on Twitter and giving multiple interviews and feeding the media beast.

MARA LIASSON, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: You mean invading the media.

KURTZ: Yes. They don't know what to do.

LIASSON: They don't know what -- that's right. That's possible. Because Donald Trump has sucked all the oxygen out of the room and he's been a huge driver of ratings. And the whole republican primary is been the Donald Trump show.

But I think what's interesting about the media not knowing or not knowing whether to call this a sure path to a contested convention that, 90 percent number is from insiders who expect a contested convention.

The interesting thing about the exit polls in Wisconsin is majorities of republicans don't think there should be a contested convention. They think the nominee should the person with the most delegates, not a magic number of 1237.

KURTZ: Well, we certainly know the insiders have been right about everything this whole campaign year. Come on!

LIASSON: That's what's great about this. And it means that there is no media monolithic line on this because nobody knows what's going to happen.

KURTZ: All right. So, let me come back to this Time cover story on Ted Cruz, "likeable enough"? Now, does that get to the heart of the issue or is this the media elite kind of looking down its nose at Ted?

PRZYBYLA: I'm sure Gayle is going to completely agree with me on this. But I think it's fair just because as someone who covered Ted Cruz in the Senate, this is the central question, not only in terms of where he is in the campaign right now but throughout his entire career.

Ted Cruz completely changed the culture in the Senate from one of being about personal -- politics of party and advancing the politics of your party to personal politics. He used the filibuster -- that was his weapon of choice. And his brand was obstructionism and confrontation. He made a lot of enemies.

And now the big question of where we are in this campaign right now is can he get those same people to come over now to rally behind him? You look at his supporters, even people like Lindsey Graham, the best he can say after a big victory is not congratulations, Ted, but this one will hopefully create a path for blocking Donald.

TROTTER: So, we have to talk about the piece itself. It is so slanted. It's Time magazine's effort to puncture the balloon of Ted Cruz after his surprising victory in Wisconsin. It is so slanted. It has this quote in it talking about there's this painful choice that republicans have to make between Trump and Cruz.

That is definitely the media elite of Washington and New York saying that republicans are not excited about these two candidates who have generated so much enthusiasm.

KURTZ: Well, let me jump in, when you say -- when the article says that he's the most hated senator in Washington and quotes, you know, John McCain as having called him a whacko bird and John Boehner calling him a jack ass. That seems to be a fair political commentary. But the "likable enough" headline the implication there is he's just not a very likeable guy, or is he?

TROTTER: Well, you know where that comes from? Barack Obama's...



TROTTER: ... back handed comment of Hillary Clinton...

KURTZ: Yes. It's a point.

TROTTER: ... saying that she lacked warmth and she was cold bloodedly ambitious, right?

KURTZ: You're likable -- you're likable enough, Hillary but how did you -- you want to respond?

PRZYBYLA: But, Gayle, I've been in so many meetings, off the record meetings with republicans and they, you know, could not believe of some of the things that Ted Cruz did on the Hill to kind of alienate not only the leaders but the rank and file.

And it started with the shutdown. Pushing things that he knew had no chance of happening to stop -- shut down the government over Obamacare.

TROTTER: But with the American voters with republican voters, that's what the republican voters want. And that's why Boehner is no longer Speaker of the House. That's why we have the Senate majority because the republican voters were saying they've had enough of these senators. The nation wants to where they wanted.


PRZYBYLA: But the question -- the question of where we are right now is can he get the establishment? Because these are the same people he's called the Washington cartel. These are the same people he's...


TROTTER: But it's the media's responsibility.

LIASSON: What's really interesting about this of all the many pieces of conventional wisdom that have completely obliterated by the republican party, one of them is that you have to be well-liked in Washington in order to prosper in republican primary politics.

No. You don't. Because Ted Cruz is not only second now but he's also cleaning up in all the shadow campaign delegate selections.


LIASSON: But I think there have been other reporting this week including an article in the New York Times where Kellyanne Conway who is running one of Cruz's super PACs says things are changing. The establishment went from saying, oh, my God, do I want to be stabbed or poisoned? In other words, the choice between Trump and Cruz to maybe he's a regular conservative republican and I can live with that.

KURTZ: Let me bring it back to New York. Because Trump, as we all expected, is throwing the New York values line that Senator Cruz used in Iowa back at him. I think the New York media all too happy to amplify that charge where he...

LIASSON: Of course. Of course. This is New York. Look, you've showed the Daily News headline. Take the, you know, what train.


KURTZ: Oh, two subway lines, 'left and U.'

LIASSON: And U. And this is New York so in your face. You can't compare. We went from Wisconsin nice to New York nasty. And, you know, Ted Cruz learned that in the Bronx a cheer is a jeer. And he went through the hazing ritual of the tabloid headline. But, yes, this is all being pumped up.

But his goal still is if he can keep Trump to under 50, I think that's going to be tough...

KURTZ: All right.

LIASSON: ... that's what count if it's a victory.

KURTZ: The truth in New York to Boston because the Boston Globe today has this mock front page put out in the opinion section. We can put it up on the screen. Deportations to begin. This imagines we're already in a Trump presidency. Mark its trade war looms. New libel law that targets, quote, absolute scam in press. Does this go too far?

PRZYBYLA: Certainly. I think Trump voters and if this was intended to reach Trump voters are going to view it that way. They're going to view it as crossing a line from providing information to advocacy and they may also be, you know, offended and think that they're talking down to them with some of the specifics that were in there.

But at the same time, it's an editorial and it's completely within the realm for an editorial...


KURTZ: Sure. Sure.

PRZYBYLA: ... to raise questions about what the implications of a candidate's policy is for.

KURTZ: It's an opinion section. And there's a company editorial they call Trump un-American, demagogue strong man, but this strikes me as the media not just opposing Donald Trump, not just saying he's a bad candidate, he would be a terrible president but almost screaming that he's a threat to western civilization.

TROTTER: I'd say it shows that the mainstream media through this presidential election cycle has descended into fear mongering and hysteria. If you look at what they're putting out with this it simultaneously reminds me of Ted Kennedy's character assassination of Bob Bork during the Senate Supreme Court hearings.

KURTZ: But those are politicians. Have you ever seen the media just do this? It's not just the left wing media, Mara, it's the National Review had the big cover against Trump. It's warning to conservative writers. The media attacks on Donald Trump which he loves to run against. They've really gone up to about DEFCON (ph) too here.

LIASSON: National Review is a self-identified, you know, conservative publication.


LIASSON: The Boston Globe which everyone knows has a liberal editorial page, I think this is not obliterating the firewall completely because they place that thing on the editorial page instead on the front page calling in parity on the opinion section.


LIASSON: But it's knocking down the firewall. And don't forget, Massachusetts, I think to date, was Donald Trump's best state. He got 49 point something in the vote even though it's a very blue state. I think in the republican primary, he's been better those than everywhere else.


PRZYBYLA: And also the timing of those is they're going to be influential going into these other northeastern states like Connecticut.

KURTZ: So, possible to where doesn't agree with the verdict that republican voters in Massachusetts...


PRZYBYLA: They clearly did not.

KURTZ: Let me take care. We're running out of time. When we come back, New York's massive media mob at the center of the political universe. Which candidates can handle the tabloid times?

And later, Hillary and Bernie using the media mega phone to trash each other. Is this finally a real race?


KURTZ: Now that the campaign has moved to the Rockies battleground of New York, Donald Trump is throwing back at Ted Cruz a certain phrase the Iowa Senator had used. Excuse me, the Texas Senator had used in Iowa.


TRUMP: Do you remember during the debate when he started lecturing me on New York values like we're no good. We all lived through it. We all know people that died. And I've got this guy standing over there looking at me, talking about New York values with scorn on his face, with hatred, with hatred of New York.


KURTZ: And of course, with reference to 9/11, Trump visited ground zero this week. Cruz got less than a warm welcome at his first stop in the Bronx.


UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: This is an immigrant community, Ted Cruz.


KURTZ: And the Bronx thing from this Daily News cover telling him which subway lines to Ted. You can also which ones.

Joining us now is Charlie Gasporino. One time reporter for Newsday and now of course, a senior correspondent and all around loud mouth at Fox Business Network. Hey, Charlie.

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX BUSINESS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Thank you for that wonderful introduction there, Howie.

KURTZ: How pumped up is the New York press corps to have a presidential primary in a state that matters and to be able to pound the candidates in their inimitable fashion?

GASPARINO: Right. I mean, we should point out that it matters for a change., right? New York generally doesn't matter, particularly presidential elections. It generally always goes republican, democrat, excuse me.

But now we do have a contested, a very strong contest in the republican primary. And keeping Trump under 50 percent is a key goal of Ted Cruz. I know that from talking to his people. They believe they can pick up delegates that way.

And the tabloids are going to have a field day. I should point out also I write an occasional column for The New York Post so I'm kind of involved in this a little bit.

KURTZ: Sure. Since you're a tabloid expert and a little bit involved in the tabloid world, are the tabloids or just the tabloid culture of New York city determined to kick Ted Cruz around?

GASPARINO: You know, it's a good question. I think he makes an easy target because he's from Texas. Let's be clear here. But and Donald -- you know, if you're going to talk about a guy that's been, that's like a marine and a navy SEAL and a green beret as it goes for tabloid coverage and dealing with the tabloid media, that is Donald Trump.

I mean, he survived this vicious news cycle here back in the early 1990s when we read about his multiple divorces, almost being -- I think he's insolvent at one point and he came back from that. So, this guy knows how to play well.


KURTZ: He didn't just survive. Let me jump in. He didn't just survive. He thrived. He's almost a creature of the tabloid culture.


KURTZ: He knows how to poke his finger in the eye, get fumes going. And I think all of that has been to his benefit in this presidential campaign.

GASPARINO: Well, it helped his resiliency. It also is his negative. I mean, we're at the point now where people, particularly republican voters, I hear this a lot in New York State as well.

You know, in the city they're saying do we really want this guy as our president? Do we really want a guy that is, you know, so tabloid driven that you'll -- that no sort of attack is below the belt. We really want this guy as the republican nominee?

I think it's starting to backfire on him. And I will say this, the Daily News attack Cruz and attacked Trump early on. He called him a clown. They put a clown face on them early on. I will say this, the tabloids, I would say -- like I say, I write an occasional column for one of them, they're not as powerful as they used to be. The news is different now. We don't see people reading the tabloids on the subway anymore if you take the subway which I do a lot. It's a different culture.

KURTZ: Sure. Well, I would argue that...


GASPARINO: The hours is diminished.

KURTZ: Everybody's gone tabloid. But I take your point. Newspapers in general now is partly puffed. Before we go, what about Bernie? So, you have Hillary Clinton, so you obviously the former senator from New York, but she's from Illinois. Bernie is from Brooklyn and he sounds like Larry David. Does that help him?

GASPARINO: Yes, I think it does. I mean, he gets coverage. Listen, I think being from New York helps when you know how to use the tabloids and what power they have right now.

And I think Donald is a master at that. That doesn't mean he's going to get over 50 percent because I think at some point voters look at this and I think you see that in New York to some degree right now. They're saying, do we really want this as our president? A guys that, you know, this sometimes unhinged.

KURTZ: Right. All right. Charlie, great to see you. Thanks very much.

And Hillary Clinton leading in New York in that Fox News poll out this morning with a substantial double digit lead.

Ahead, Jill Kelley, the woman caught up in the Petraeus sex scandal on being smeared by the media. But up next, how the presidential candidates are battling the press or boiling the press as the campaign turns red hot.


KURTZ: All the candidates seem to be blaming the media or mixing it up with journalists these days. I can't remember a presidential campaign where the role of the press was so hotly contested. Ted Cruz insists the mainstream media are in the Donald's corner because as the senator once told me, he thinks virtually all journalists are partisan democrats.


CRUZ: Our friends in the media tell us that Donald Trump is unstoppable in New York State.


Oddly enough, our friends in media are very comfortable with the New York liberal who supported Andrew Cuomo and Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer for that.


KURTZ: So, Cruz says journalists love Trump because he's liberal. A nice bank shot that hits both targets. We all know what Trump thinks of the disgusting press. And he got into it with MSNBC's Chris Jansing when she asked about his contentious interview with Wisconsin's anti-Trump radio host, Charlie Sykes.


TRUMP: Sometime you go into unfriendly territory. That's part of the game.

CHRIS JANSING, NBC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And that's what you considered Wisconsin to be?

TRUMP: No. You said about a radio talk show host.


JANSING: You're just talking about the radio host.

TRUMP: See that's what I mean about the dishonest media. I...

JANSING: I'm asking you a question allowing you to answer it.

TRUMP: Excuse me. You're asking me about a show host. And I said it was -- that he was unfriendly territory. Then you say is that Wisconsin?

JANSING: We also talked about Wisconsin.

TRUMP: No, that's so dishonest. It's so dishonest. No, no, no. Look, that's called -- you know what that's called? Dishonest media.


KURTZ: Well, Jansing did set a bit of a trap for him giving Trump an opening to turn it back on her. Bernie Sanders cited a Washington Post headline Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president. And justifying his attack on her as unqualified for the White House.

All the headlines was bit of a stretch because Clinton didn't use those words, Sanders reverted to one of his favorite themes.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me be clear. This is not the type of politics that I want to get into. I know that's what the media loves.


KURTZ: So, Bernie whacked Hillary because he thought she had whacked him and then blamed it on the media's hunger for conflict. Thanks a lot. What's also striking here is how much newspapers is of matter in this campaign.

Sanders took heat for his lack of detailed answers with The New York Daily News editorial. Unable to say even what laws he would use to break up the big banks. Trump got knocked for his session with the Washington Post editorial board for telling the post Bob Woodward we're heading for a massive recession and for his comments to two New York Times reporters on NATO and nuclear policy.

Sometimes, not always, the press is actually doing its job. But it also happens to make a pretty fat target.

Ahead, now that it's Saturday Night Live is mocking Donald Trump, is the show becoming a political factor again? But first, the media suddenly focusing on the democratic race again just as things turn nasty in New York between Hillary and Bernie.


KURTZ: After Bernie Sanders clobbered Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin, the two really ratcheted up their rhetoric in media appearances with the New York primary such as when CNN's Chris Cuomo asked Hillary about comments by Bernie's campaign manager.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Jeff Weaver said something interesting inflammatory on our air here saying that, you know, the Clinton campaign, Secretary Clinton, they need to be careful not to destroy the Democratic Party merely in pursuit of her own ambition to be president. Very strong words. Your response to that idea?

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I mean, it's just ludicrous on the face of it.


KURTZ: Sanders then held a news conference and hit back.

SANDERS: This campaign will fight back. So, when you have headlines in The Washington Post, quote, "Clinton questions whether Sanders is qualified to be president," my response is, well, you know, if you want to question my qualifications, let me suggest this. That maybe the American people might wonder about your qualifications, Madam Secretary.


KURTZ: We're back with the panel. Gayle Trotter, Bernie Sanders now calling Hillary Clinton unqualified after claiming that she said the same about him. Is this why the press seems a lot more interested in this democratic race?

TROTTER: I think so. I mean, it's very newsworthy. And The Washington Post later that week had a piece talking a fact check calling out Bernie Sanders for saying that Hillary had accused him of being unqualified...


KURTZ: Three Pinocchios.

TROTTER: Three Pinocchios. And yet, Bernie is relying on the Washington Post earlier headlines going to that conclusion. So, I think that it just shows that these fact checking pieces are opinion pieces in the guise of objective reporting and the Post is loving all of this drama.

LIASSON: Yes, the Post headline is misleading. Because she had merely declined to say whether she thought he was qualified or not in an interview and she was pressed three times.

KURTZ: She dodged the question. Yes.

LIASSON: She dodged the question.

KURTZ: After so many months of, you know, this high tone, I disagree with the secretary on the banks.


KURTZ: You can sense that isn't this what TV really wants, personal attacks?

LIASSON: Of course it is. And as a matter of fact, he even said in that speech, I know the media wants us to do this.


LIASSON: Well, you know, he also is facing a kind of do or die situation in New York even though he's won, you know, eight of the last nine. Then a lot of them have been in red state caucuses.


LIASSON: And he needs to try to beat her in own home state. But what happened on I think MSNBC in a town hall he finally said, yes, I think she's qualified. He had backed that. Yes.


KURTZ: It was kind of pushed into it. Right. Now because it's a New York primary, you had Hillary Clinton trying to get on the subway, having trouble with her metro fare card. I've seen that nine million times. I think we've got the video up.

LIASSON: And he thought you used a token.


KURTZ: Anytime there's a token. It's been many years since Bernie lived in Brooklyn.


KURTZ: But the pundits always come back to, well this is all been interesting. But Hillary Clinton has an interesting amount of delegate lead. If she were to lose New York or were to be close after losing eight out of nine to Bernie, would and Wyoming yesterday, would the media's story line shift to are there potentially really serious weaknesses in the Hillary candidacy.

PRZYBYLA: I think we may be already be there, Howie. And the reason why is because I don't think she has to lose New York for that narrative to be relevant. Look at all of the advantages that she supposedly should have in the state having represented it.

It's most importantly a closed primary where the independents who have been carrying Bernie cannot vote. So, it even comes close there, I think that people will start to, you know, people being the media will start to raise real questions and alarm bells will go off about her strength as a general election candidate.

I don't think people are going to say that she's going to lose the nomination. But I think there will be real questions raised about her strength in a general.

KURTZ: Well, among her media appearances this week, Hillary Clinton went on The View. Here she is with Joy Behar.


JOY BEHAR, 'THE VIEW': You have Donald Trump saying things like women who have abortions should be punished. I mean, it's frightening.


BEHAR: It's frightening. What do you think will happen to women if a republican gets in -- if Trump wins, God forbid?

CLINTON: He started on his very first day saying that all Mexican immigrants were rapists and criminals, right? The way he treated Megyn Kelly who is a superb journalist, right?

BEHAR: Right, she is. Right.

CLINTON: I just don't understand what he thinks is the role of somebody running for president.


KURTZ: So, Gayle, let's start with Joy Behar saying that Trump wants to punish women for having abortions. Is that his current position?

TROTTER: No, it's misleading. She's misleading false information. If you go back and look at that interview at Chris Matthews, Trump wouldn't even agree that a 10 cent fine on a woman would be appropriate. He wouldn't even say that. And he...


KURTZ: Well, he did say in response to the hypothetical question that women should be punished and then the campaign kind of walked it back.

TROTTER: He did release a statement. But if you go back I think the most newsworthy thing about that was his push back on Chris Matthews and his Catholicism and calling him out for the media angle of that.

KURTZ: Heidi, what about what Hillary Clinton said about Trump's same as her comment about Mexican immigrants?

PRZYBYLA: Look, there's so much that is said that is inaccurate. Like Trump never said all Mexicans. He said some are nice, implying that he thinks many of them fit into that category.

KURTZ: Yes. His tone of exaggeration...

PRZYBYLA: But that was an over -- that was an over, you know, obviously that was an over generalization.

KURTZ: Yes. If the media just given up trying to blow the whistle and he thinks exaggerations...


PRZYBYLA: I feel like in the last cycle, Howie, I remember being part of this grand fact checking operation where we're all so wide eyed and optimistic about fact checking everything that these candidates said. And it's two things now.

We're overextended. There are too many of them, you know, exaggerating things on a daily basis. But we're also little demoralized. Because frankly, when we do put these fact checks out which...


LIASSON: It's all that matter.

PRZYBYLA: ... I can tell you, you know, from the heart we're trying to like do a good job of like fact checking these guys and it just doesn't seem to matter. It doesn't get the clicks and it doesn't get the attraction.


KURTZ: Well, some are trying.

PRZYBYLA: It sounds like, excuse me, we still put them out. But like, you know, we're human beings, too. And as if it doesn't seem like people care about your product to something else.


KURTZ: And if Hillary Clinton admires Megyn Kelly so much, why does she does not she give her an interview. She's done a very intelligent one appearance on Fox in this.

LIASSON: And maybe she should. Maybe she should.

KURTZ: OK. Here we're on board with that. As such a strange campaign. We also have Bernie Sanders, the only Jewish candidate in the race now going to a Vatican conference. There's a questions about did the pope approve this.

But finally, all the stories now about the Trump campaign having big shake- ups because poll a veteran strategist is brought in to run the convention. Is that a little overdone? I mean, every campaign has internal tensions. Go ahead.

LIASSON: I was going to say, the campaign shake-up is like catnip. You can't resist it. A campaign shake-up.


LIASSON: But you know what? I think that the Manafort story has actually been covered pretty straight. Trump knew he needed a professional.

KURTZ: Right.

LIASSON: He hired Paul Manafort. Paul Manafort He goes on TV and says "I speak to -- I report to the boss and we're going to get more traditional."

KURTZ: But some of the headlines that write...


TROTTER: Headlines have been like meltdowns.

PRZYBYLA: Yes. I think...

KURTZ: "Game of thrones."

PRZYBYLA: Yes. We've all "Hunger Games."

KURTZ: Yes. "Hunger Games." Excuse me. Sorry, "Game of Thrones."

PRZYBYLA: We've seen campaigns go into new phases. And that's what this is. Manafort, you know, when there is a real shake-up, you're seeing people actually being...


PRZYBYLA: ... fired or intentionally layered over.


KURTZ: All right. No firing at this table. I hope you all come back. Mara Liasson and Gayle Trotter. Heide Przybyla, good to see you this Sunday.

Ahead on "MediaBuzz," the 9-year-old reporter who isn't taking any gaffe from her critics.

But coming up, is SNL doing to Donald Trump what they once did to Sarah Palin and Al Gore?


KURTZ: "Saturday Night Live" may not be the cultural force it was say a couple decades ago, but it has a long history of mocking presidential and V.P. candidates which was on display again this past week.


DARRELL HAMMOND AS AL GORE: My plan, Jim, is different. Rather than squander the surplus on a risky tax cut for the wealthy, I would put it in what I call a lockbox.

TINA FEY AS SARAH PALIN: I can see Russia from my house.

KATE MCKINNON AS HILLARY CLINTON: Tonight I want to address that pesky media who's really crawling up and under that skin of mine. Camera two, zoom in. I have survived everything that's been thrown at me.

DARRELL HAMMOND AS DONALD TRUMP: When I say women, you say suck. Women.


HAMMOND: Women --



KURTZ: So, is all this just for laughs or can it be damaging?

Joining us from New York is Marisa Guthrie of The Hollywood Reporter. So, does this "SNL" mockery of Trump portray as a kind of mean to women? Does it have any political impact?

MARISA GUTHRIE, THE NATIONAL REPORTER TV EDITOR: I don't think it has any political impact. I think that Trump's base is not going to be swayed by Saturday Night Live. They're probably not even watching Saturday Night Live. But it does reflect the broader narrative that has taken hold about Trump in the last couple weeks.

KURTZ: Well, so a lot of people say the show is not as relevant as it used to be even when say Tina Fey was doing Sarah Palin.


KURTZ: But Trump thought the program was important enough to co-host. And I'm not saying, you know, is it going to change votes because they made fun of Donald Trump, but comedy shows can have a way of perpetuating some of a culture narrative.

GUTHRIE: That's absolutely right. And I think that, you know, he was obviously Saturday Night Live having him co-host, kind of getting in bed with him at that point. They were a little light on him for many months after that.

And even some of the cast members there said as much. You know, that they sort of -- certainly on that show that he hosted, they had to pull their punches a little bit. And now, obviously, you know, that was in November. The gloves are off. And you've seen, you know, him put his foot in his mouth over the last couple of weeks and they have pounced. But they've been, you know...


KURTZ: So, you're saying that SNL follows the polls and of Trump dips a little bit then they can be a little more vicious?

GUTHRIE: Well, yes. But also, they've given him -- Trump has given Saturday Night Live and all the other comedians, by the way, lots of ammunition with the David Duke KKK thing, with the, you know, his missteps on abortion and so, you know, they have, while they always have a lot to work with Trump, now they have a lot more.

KURTZ: And speaking of other comedians, you're right. He is fodder on the late night circuit. Here is Stephen Colbert on CBS' Late Show with sort of an interview with Donald Trump.


STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW": How do you respond to Anderson Cooper comparing you to a 5-year-old?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anderson Cooper is a dumb, dumb. He's a stupid head. A total poopy pants. It's sad.

COLBERT: OK. Right now I got to say you're sounding a little immature.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you are, but what am I?


KURTZ: Well, the cartoon Donald Trump. Now look, last night on SNL, Kate McKinnon did her Hillary Clinton. But I thought that was a more gentle humor. Where now it seems to me that some of this comedy shows are kind of being a little bit more hostile to Trump. Am I wrong?

GUTHRIE: I think they are being more hostile to Trump. And I think that -- but maybe they've been being hostile to Hillary all along. So, it doesn't seem like they're being suddenly hostile with Trump. You know, Saturday Night Live was certainly a little nicer.

I think also, you know, the comedians appreciated Trump. But I mean, look at, you know, John Oliver's takedown of Trump from a few months ago. I mean, that was certainly not -- you know, that was certainly extremely on the nose and they also know, I think, that Trump will -- you know, a lot of stuff gets under his skin much and he's going to react to this stuff.

KURTZ: I see happen, yes.

GUTHRIE: And that's going to perpetuate their comedy and so they need that now.

KURTZ: Well, the one good thing here is Darrell Hammond is back doing impersonations because I think he is terrific.


KURTZ: Marisa Guthrie, great to see you. Thanks very much for stopping by.

GUTHRIE: Nice to see you. Thanks, Howie.

KURTZ: After the break, the media painted her as the other, other woman, rumored to have improper relationships with two top generals.

Now Jill Kelley reveals the e-mail that landed her in the midst of the Petraeus scandal.


KURTZ: Jill Kelley was stalked by a mystery e-mailer who turned out to be her friend David Petraeus' jealous lover, Paula Broadwell. And when Kelly went to the FBI four years ago, the investigation led to Petraeus' resignation as CIA director for improperly sharing classified information.

But leaks by investigators sparked out media frenzy that trashed Kelley's reputation over her friendship with General Petraeus and with General John Allen, a story that everybody covered.


SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEW: Investigators say she exchanged thousands of e-mails with General John Allen, the top commander of the war in Afghanistan. Those e-mails they tell us were pretty explicit according to one official who've seen them. The official called them the equivalent of phone sex over e-mail.


KURTZ: Kelley has a book out called "Collateral Damage, Petraeus, Power, and Politics and the Abuse of Privacy." And I spoke to her here in Washington.


KURTZ: Jill Kelley, welcome.


KURTZ: When some news outlets suggested you were having an affair with David Petraeus when other outlets quoted "sources" and saying that your e- mails with General Allen were so between flirtatious and phone sex, what was it like to be in that eye of that media hurricane?

KELLEY: You know, it's an experience that no person, no law-abiding citizen that goes and seeks help from our FBI for protection should ever go through. There are many women out there today that have stalkers, whether it is cyber stalkers or physical stalkers.

But to then have their e-mails exploited and completely mischaracterized, actually false lies about their e-mails, it's an awful feeling to see how, number one, you're watching TV and you know that's absolutely not true.

KURTZ: How did that make you feel about the press and did you feel kind of helpless to fight back?

KELLEY: What I learned over time is, and it's not a very comfortable or warm fuzzy feeling, but the press was misled by this top political officials.

KURTZ: The people who did the leaking?

KELLEY: That's correct. This unnamed merchants.

KURTZ: Right. Right.

KELLEY: This smear marches.

KURTZ: But at the same time, now you were kind enough to do your only interview with me print interview three years ago, and I was always asking you got to come on TV, you got to tell your story on camera.

Do you regret not speaking out? Because most journalists had no way of getting your side and you weren't talking.

KELLEY: Right. You know, I regret. One of the many, well, one of the two thing I regret. First one was going to the FBI for help.

KURTZ: Sure.

KELLEY: But the second thing I regret was not speaking sooner. You always follow your advisors and to be told don't speak, there is nothing that you did wrong, you just went and reported the crime and the attention is going to be on the stalker. And the fact that the CIA director resigned because he was compromised that's what going to make the news.

So, you just stay quite. But unfortunately, these government officials that were so preoccupied in covering up their wrongdoings that caused Petraeus to resign abruptly without Congress having any knowledge about the, you know, national security that was compromised without the media knowing what was going with an FBI investigation basically about the personal life of General Petraeus.

KURTZ: You also described in the book how Petraues and you were close friends with him and his wife and your husband...

KELLEY: Right.

KURTZ: ... asked you to go to the FBI and drop the charges because this was going to hurt him before you look at him. And you did that. And then he resigns right after the Obama's re-election and he sends you a note saying I screwed up terribly, Jill, I needed to do the honorable thing after having done to this honorable.

And you write to General Petraeus, "I know we'll never totally recover from the irreversible damage that was done by Paula Broadwell. So, I do not think it's asking too much to make one statement to help reserve what we have worked so hard our entire lives to earn such it was awfully taken away by your affair."

How disappointed did you feel that David Petraues would speak out in en questionable.

KELLEY: You know, looking back now, he was in a very difficult position. A very, you know, between poor Holly, what she endured, what my family experienced, the fact that he was compromised by not only his stalker but by his losses.

KURTZ: Right, but you repeatedly asked him to help you...

KELLEY: Right.

KURTZ: ... clear your name.

KELLEY: Right.

KURTZ: And he didn't want to do that?

KELLEY: Right. You know, of course it's disappointing because of all the damage that these -- his political enemies did to us as collateral damage just to go to him.

KURTZ: But by releasing many of your personal e-mails with Petraeus and others, aren't you doing to him what you say government leakers did to you, which is invading his privacy.

KELLEY: No, not at all. Absolutely our privacy was destroyed in 2012, by the same smear and some leakers. They've destroyed it. That's never coming back.

What I'm doing with these personal e-mails is to show that there was no other, other woman. That none of this was true. These are completely bogus. And the fact that our government continues to collect e-mails on millions of innocent Americans today, I'm trying to say what happened to me can happen to you.

KURTZ: How did you feel when you learned about this e-mail from Sidney Blumenthal, a former Clinton White House aide and an adviser to Hillary Clinton, writing to Hillary Clinton then at the State Department, calling saying whether you co-opted the generals and admirals to make yourself the queen bee in the Tampa social circle and say you seem to be an ambitious dope.

KELLEY: I personally was little taken how sexist that was. Because if I was a man, if my name was Joe Kelley, that would never, that e-mail never would have transpired. There are so many -- every leak number one was sexist, completely sexist.

And no woman should ever go through that just because they reported a crime, these falsehoods that were leaked are completely bogus and defamatory and it really puts women behind. It's not fair what they did. Our country has come far along where women can have positions and make a difference and not be queen bees.

KURTZ: Just briefly, "The Collateral Damage," the title of your book, how lasting is it, will it ever be reversed for you and your family?

KELLEY: No. The damage has been done. General Allen, he was completely humiliated and resigned, oh, I'm sorry, retired in that kind of shame after serving our country so proudly.

My family, my innocent kids -- the damage that happened to our family, the pain we endured -- it was -- it's irreconcilable.

KURTZ: Jill Kelley, thanks very much for joining us.

KELLEY: Thank you.


KURTZ: You can see more of my interview with Jill Kelley tomorrow on our home page.

Still to come, the New York newspaper editor who is not sorry about helping Donald Trump with his speech. And a very young reporter scoop the competition and defies her critics.


KURTZ: The New York Observer has rather close relationship with the Trump campaign, not surprising given that its owner, Jared Kushner is married to Donald's daughter, Ivanka.

Now, the Manhattan Weekly is confirming that not only Kushner but the Observer's editor, Ken Kurson, helped Donald Trump with his speech before AIPAC. And so, Kurson and anyone else in the newsroom will not help the campaign in the future.

The paper also changing its policy and will no longer shy away from covering Trump. Kurson is unapologetic telling the Huffington Post he basically looked at a draft of the speech, quote, "It's a complicated world and I don't intend to let the 11 people who have appointed themselves that journalist police tell me at age 47, how to behave to whom I'm allowed to speak."

Hilde Kate Lysiak is an online reporter who beat the local press to a murder story in her hometown of (Inaudible) Pennsylvania. What makes this rather noteworthy is that, Hilde is 9.


HILDE KATE LYSIAK, REPORTER: I've got a tip from my good source I'm able to confirm. Then I went straight to the scene and asked neighbors for more information. I worked very hard. Because of my work, I was able to inform the people that there is a terrible murder hours before my competition even got to the scene.


KURTZ: The budding journalist has gotten plenty of mean messages some calling her orange street news a complete joke and sensationalist trash. But she responded.


LYSIAK: I know that of you skeptical. And I know that some of you just want me to sit down and be quiet because I'm 9. But if you want me to stop offering news, then you get off your computer and do something about that. There. Is that cute enough for you?


KURTZ: I love this girl. And not because she is cute. Because she actually understands journalism and the need to scoop the competition. Hilde, can we hire you? I mean, in a year or two? We try to reach the younger domo.

And so, for this edition of "MediaBuzz." I'm Howard Kurtz. We hope you like our Facebook page. We post your Buzz videos there or I respond to your questions over e-mail. Also read all your comments on Twitter. I'm Howard Kurtz. Let's continue the dialogue offline.

And then we're back here next Sunday, 11 and 5 Eastern. Check us out at the latest buzz.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.