This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," April 10, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
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CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS HOST: I’m Chris Wallace.
Barack Obama sits down with "Fox News Sunday" for the first time since he became president.
WALLACE: Are you saying you will stick with Merrick Garland through the end of your term?
He makes his case for his Supreme Court nominee and we asked the commander-in-chief about criticism he under-reacts to attacks by ISIS.
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Some people wonder, do you worry about terrorism and feel the threat of terrorism the way they do?
And Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server.
Can you still say flatly that she did not jeopardize American secrets?
President Barack Obama one-on-one. It's a "Fox News Sunday" exclusive.
Then, new Fox polls on the race in both parties, as the campaign gets downright nasty in New York.
And our Sunday group is here to break down the state of both races.
Plus, President Obama looks back over the last eight years.
What you're going to miss most when you leave office?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Other than Air Force One.
WALLACE: As he revisits his days as a law school professor.
All, right now, on "Fox News Sunday."
WALLACE: And hello again from Fox News in Washington.
This month, "Fox News Sunday" celebrates our 20th anniversary. And this week, we sat down with President Obama for the first time on this program since he took office. We traveled to the University of Chicago Law School where Mr. Obama taught for more than a decade. He returned to make the case for his Supreme Court nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, arguing the Senate Republican plan to block the nomination threatens to deadlock the court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: As a consequence, we have a 4-4 tie in the Supreme Court and potentially at least two Supreme Court terms in which this vacancy will remain. That is unprecedented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Afterwards, we spoke with the president about the nomination battle, concerns about how he reacts to terror attacks, and the Clinton e-mail scandal.
WALLACE: Mr. President, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."
OBAMA: It’s great to be with you.
WALLACE: It’s been a while.
OBAMA: Better late than never.
WALLACE: You’re trying to pressure Senate Republicans to consider Judge Garland. But Senate Republicans, the GOP, is applying pressure of its own. And just this week, two Senate Republicans, Moran and Murkowski, reversed themselves, and said they no longer support even holding confirmation hearings.
So far, there has not been a break in Republican ranks.
OBAMA: Well, I think that things will evolve as people get familiar with Judge Garland’s record. As it becomes apparent that the overwhelming majority of the American people think that the President nominates somebody to the Supreme Court, and the Senate should now do its constitutional job and give him a hearing.
And originally, the Republicans said they wouldn’t meet with him at all. Now, a number of them have already had meetings. And the questioning that they’re having privately with Judge Garland is something that should be done publicly. Through a hearings process, so the American people can make their own assessment.
But I recognize there’s pressure on the other side. Our goal is just to make sure that the Senate does its job and treats him fairly.
WALLACE: Now, you talk about the Senate doing its job. You’re calling for an up-or-down vote on Judge Garland.
WALLACE: But back in 2006, Senator Barack Obama joined a filibuster on Sam Alito, a Bush appointee, which would have prevented an up or down vote. Isn’t there a fair amount of hypocrisy on both sides, frankly, including you?
OBAMA: I think there’s no doubt that Democrats and Republicans have gotten into a fix inside the Senate, in which the confirmation process becomes too much of a tit for tat, or becomes politicized.
I will point out though, Chris, that never has a Republican president’s nominee not received a hearing, not received a vote.
So, I don’t object to Republicans saying, "Look, Merrick Garland may be a fine man. He may be an excellent judge, but I just disagree with him philosophically on a whole range of issues, so I’m going to vote against him."
WALLACE: So, you’d be OK if he got defeated, as long as they go through the process?
OBAMA: I think that if they go through the process, they won’t have any rationale to defeat him.
So my point is, go through the process, go through the hearings. I think if you do that, the American people and the majority of senators will determine that, in fact, he is qualified to be on the Court.
WALLACE: Some Republican senators say, "Look, if a Democrat wins in November, well maybe we’ll consider Garland in a lame duck hearing."
WALLACE: Have you made a commitment to Garland that you’re going to stick by him through the end of your term? Or perhaps, let’s say Hillary Clinton is the newly elected president, would you pull him and let her make the pick?
OBAMA: As more senators meet with him, I think they will recognize the qualities of this individual.
What I think we can’t have is a situation in which the Republican Senate simply says, "Because it’s a Democratic president, we are not going to do our job, have hearings, and have a vote."
WALLACE: But --
OBAMA: Because if that happens, Chris, then it is almost impossible to expect that the Democrats -- let’s say a Republican president won -- that the Democrats wouldn’t say the exact same thing. They’ll say, "Let’s wait for four years, and we’ll take our chances on the next president."
WALLACE: But just to button this up --
WALLACE: Are you saying you will stick with Merrick Garland through the end of your term?
WALLACE: No pulling him after --
OBAMA: Absolutely not.
WALLACE: I want to ask you about an interview, and extensive interview you did with the Atlantic Magazine recently. It says that you think that the fear of terrorism among politicians, among the press, among the public, is exaggerated. And then the article goes on to say, quote, "Obama frequently reminds his staff that terrorism takes far fewer lives in America than handguns, car accidents, and falls in bathtubs do."
Do we make too big a deal of the terror threat?
OBAMA: I don’t think we make too big of a deal of the terror threat. My number one job is to protect the American people. My number one priority right now is defeating ISIL. My number one priority throughout my presidency has been going after terrorist networks that would attempt to do harm to --
WALLACE: So what you’re point?
OBAMA: -- Americans inside, or outside of America.
My point is that, how we do it is important, that we have to make sure that we abide by our laws. We have to make sure that we abide by our values. And we have to make sure that what we do doesn’t end up being counterproductive. So when I hear some candidates saying we should carpet bomb innocent civilians --
WALLACE: Ted Cruz.
OBAMA: -- that is not a productive approach to defeating terrorism.
When I hear people suggesting that we should ban all Muslims from entering the country, that is not a good approach to defeating terrorism.
Our approach has to be smart.
WALLACE: But the pushback against this --
WALLACE: -- when you say more people die in bathtub accidents, and I understand you’re not saying it’s not important, but you’re saying we can’t overreact to it, is bathtub manufacturers aren’t trying to kill us, and they’re not trying to up the body count -- I think it’s fair to say that some of the sharpest criticism of you, from both sides during your presidency, has been the way that you’ve responded -- personally, not necessarily in policy -- to terror attacks.
After James Foley was beheaded, you went out and played golf. After Paris, you said it was a setback.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Even as we grieve with our French friends, however, we can't lose sight that there has been progress being made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: After San Bernardino, you talked about gun control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Right now, people on the no fly list can walk into a store and buy a gun. That's insane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And some people wonder, I think the concern is, do you worry about terrorism and feel the threat of terrorism the way they do?
OBAMA: And I would say this -- there isn’t a president who’s taken more terrorists off the field than me, over the last seven-and-a-half years.
I’m the guy who calls the families, or meets with them, or hugs them, or tries to comfort a mom, or a dad, or a husband, or a kid, after a terrorist attack.
So, let’s be very clear about how much I prioritize this. This is my number one job --
WALLACE: Then why is it --
OBAMA: -- and we have been doing it effectively. You’re --
WALLACE: So why do people sometimes think you’re diffident --
OBAMA: Well, I think part of it is that, in the wake of terrorist attacks, it has been my view consistently that the job of the terrorists, in their minds, is to induce panic, induce fear, get societies to change who they are.
And what I’ve tried to communicate is, "You can’t change us. You can kill some of us, but we will hunt you down, and we will get you. And in the meantime, just as we did in Boston, after the marathon bombing, we’re going to go to a ballgame. And do all the other things that make our life worthwhile. And you have nothing to offer."
That’s the message of resilience that we don’t panic, that we don’t fear. We will hunt you down and we will get you.
WALLACE: Last October, you said that Hillary Clinton’s private e-mail server did not jeopardize national secrets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I can tell that you this is not a situation in which America's national security was endangered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Since then, we’ve learned that over 2,000 of her e-mails contained classified material, 22 of the e-mails had top-secret information. Can you still say flatly that she did not jeopardize America’s secrets?
OBAMA: I’ve got to be careful because, as you know, there have been investigations, there are hearings, Congress is looking at this. And I haven’t been sorting through each and every aspect of this.
Here’s what I know: Hillary Clinton was an outstanding Secretary of State. She would never intentionally put America in any kind of jeopardy.
And what I also know, because I handle a lot of classified information, is that there are -- there’s classified, and then there’s classified. There’s stuff that is really top secret top secret, and there’s stuff that is being presented to the president or the secretary of state, that you might not want on the transom, or going out over the wire, but is basically stuff that you could get in open source.
WALLACE: But last October, you were prepared to say, "She hasn’t jeopardized."
OBAMA: Yes. Well --
WALLACE: And the question is, can you still say that?
OBAMA: I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America’s national security. Now what I’ve also said is that -- and she has acknowledged -- that there’s a carelessness, in terms of managing e-mails, that she has owned, and she recognizes.
But I also think it is important to keep this in perspective. This is somebody who has served her country for four years as secretary of state, and did an outstanding job. And no one has suggested that in some ways, as a consequence of how she’s handled e-mails, that that detracted from her excellent ability to carry out her duties.
WALLACE: Mr. President, when you say what you’ve just said, when Josh Earnest said, as he did -- your spokesman -- in January, the information from the Justice Department is she’s not a target, some people I think are worried whether or not -- the decision whether or not, how to handle the case, will be made on political grounds, not legal grounds.
Can you guarantee to the American people, can you direct the Justice Department to say, "Hillary Clinton will be treated -- as the evidence goes, she will not be in any way protected."
OBAMA: I can guarantee that. And I can guarantee that, not because I give Attorney General Lynch a directive, that is institutionally how we have always operated.
I do not talk to the Attorney General about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line, and always have maintained it, previous president.
WALLACE: So, just to button this up --
OBAMA: I guarantee it.
WALLACE: You --
OBAMA: I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department, or the FBI, not just in this case, but in any case.
WALLACE: And she will be --
OBAMA: Full stop. Period.
WALLACE: And she will be treated no different --
OBAMA: Guaranteed. Full stop. Nobody gets treated differently when it comes to the Justice Department, because nobody is above the law.
WALLACE: Even if she ends up as the Democratic nominee?
OBAMA: How many times do I have to say it, Chris? Guaranteed.
WALLACE: Finally, we’ve seen in this campaign, I think both on the -- among some Trump voters, and among some Sanders voters -- anger --
WALLACE: -- about Washington, about Wall Street.
Do you feel any personal responsibility that eight years after you came into office, there are millions of people out there who still feel cut out --
WALLACE: -- from the decisions that affect their lives?
OBAMA: Well, there’s no doubt that I feel frustrated about it. My whole, you know, operating assumption, in terms of our democracy, is the more people are involved, the more they know, the more they are involved, the more responsive our government is.
WALLACE: So why do all these people, Democrats and Republicans?
OBAMA: Yes, I think that, I think it comes out of a couple things, Chris. Number one, we’re still shell-shocked from what happened in 2007, 2008.
We’ve now had more than six years straight of job growth, and cut the unemployment rate down to 5 percent. But, people lost homes, lost jobs, lost life savings. And they still don’t fully know how that happened, and was the system fixed in a way that they can have confidence in. I also think that --
WALLACE: So, have you fixed that in eight years?
OBAMA: Well, actually we’ve done a better job than I think most people give us credit for.
WALLACE: I don’t mean fixed the system.
WALLACE: I mean fixed the perception.
OBAMA: Well, the perception is going to be changing over time, as people see results, as they get more confident.
But, and this is the big but, nobody’s going to be 100 percent satisfied -- in a democracy like ours -- with every outcome. And I think the danger, both among Republicans, and among Democrats, who increasingly just listen to each other. Or they just listen to people who already agree with them. Republicans, they have their own TV station. They’re own radio --
WALLACE: Go ahead. You can say FOX News.
OBAMA: They’ve got their own publications, their own blogs. Democrats, same thing.
Increasingly what happens is, we don’t hear each other. And so what happens then is, when Republicans promise to repeal Obamacare, and it doesn’t get repealed, they’re outraged. Well, it must be because Republicans were corrupt or unresponsive, or big money got involved.
If Democrats get frustrated, they say, "Well, why didn’t we have a public option in our healthcare system? Or have a single payer system?"
Well, it turns out that 85 percent of people get healthcare through their jobs. They’re pretty satisfied with it. They don’t want big change on them. That’s why it didn’t happen.
It wasn’t necessarily because there was some, you know, corruption, or venality, or that people were unresponsive to democracy. People disagree.
I want, occasionally, people to step back and take a look. America’s got the best cards. We are the envy of the world. We have the most powerful military on earth, by a mile.
Our economy right now, is stronger than any other advanced economy. We have the best workers, we have the best universities. We are the most innovative. We have the most advanced scientific community. We have an incredibly diverse and talented population.
This can be our century, just like the 20th century was, as long as we don’t tear each other apart, because our politics value sensationalism or conflict, over cooperation, and we don’t have the ability to compromise. And if we get that part right, nobody can stop us.
WALLACE: Mr. President --
OBAMA: I enjoyed it.
WALLACE: -- thank you.
OBAMA: Thank you so much, Chris.
WALLACE: Later in the program, we take a walk with the president as he discusses the highs and lows of his eight years in office.
And there is more from our sit-down with Mr. Obama on our website, FoxNewsSunday.com.
Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discus what the president had to say. Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about whether the Clinton case will be handled fairly by the Justice Department? Just go to Facebook or Twitter @FoxNewsSunday, and we may use your question on the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Here's what I know: Hillary Clinton was an outstanding secretary of state. She would never intentionally put America in any kind of jeopardy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: President Obama in our exclusive interview doubling down on his defense of Hillary Clinton in the private e-mail scandal.
And it's time now for our Sunday group: syndicated columnist George Will, Anne Gearan of The Washington Post, GOP strategist Karl Rove, and Bob Woodward, also from The Washington Post.
Karl, I want to start with the president's comments about Hillary Clinton. I got to say, I was surprised that he even got into this given the investigation. But he wanted to basically to defend her again against the allegation that she somehow jeopardized national security with her private e-mail server. At the same time, he said this investigation by the FBI, the position by the justice department will be made on legal grounds, not political.
Do you see a contradiction there?
KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Yes, I do. He should have stepped away from this and not commented on it. But he did. He was offering the first defense of Hillary Clinton.
It was unintentional and it really wasn't important information, because as you know, there is classified and then will is classified. It was really inappropriate I think for the chief executive of the United States to comment on an ongoing FBI investigation.
Secondly, I don't feel particularly comforted by his follow-up which was, of courses, it’s not going to be political because that's not how the Justice Department operates. Well, the American people have a great deal of concern about how this particular administration's Justice Department operates. After all, Lois Lerner is out there free and clear after clearly abusing her powers at the IRS. And this administration started off by dropping the investigation and charges that had been filed against the Black Panther Party which was on videotape harassing voters at the polls in Philadelphia in 2008 and was all political.
So, the president may have tried -- wanted to re -- to sort of reassure the American people it will be all done on the up and up. But this administration needs to understand they're not starting from a position where people assume that that's what's going to happen.
WALLACE: Here's what Hillary Clinton had to say this week about the possibility that she'll end up being prosecuted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is not going to happen. There is not even the remotest chance that it's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We asked you for questions for the panel and we got a bunch of questions like this one from Michelle Silvey who writes on Facebook, "It's a pointless conversation since we all know the Justice Department, Attorney General Loretta Lynch and Obama will continue to protect her as long as she continues to promote his agenda and refuses to criticize him."
Bob, really two questions -- how do you answer Michelle? And what do you think of the president weighing in on this case while the FBI is still investigating?
BOB WOODWARD, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, it's a headline because he is anticipating the defense where he said it is unintentional to establish that there was a crime here. One of the elements is intent. And as best I can tell no one is saying she intentionally put out this material. Also President Obama said, look this is carelessness.
I understand that what they're going to be able to say is no crime because there was no intent. You have the system broke down, if you talk to people in the White House, State Department, Pentagon, they all send these classified messages around. It's the way of doing business. They're argument is, hey, I’m over in the Middle East so I need to do this.
So, there's news here and I think it's going to -- if this is what we're going to see -- big mistake, carelessness, no intent.
WALLACE: But let me pick up on the fact that president even discussed it. I remember when Richard Nixon was president. I think he weighed in on the Manson case and he got blasted about speaking. Of course, he didn't have any relationship to the Manson family.
What do you think of the propriety of the president weighing in like this in the midst of an FBI investigation?
WOODWARD: Well, it proves that we're in a political situation here now. Hillary Clinton is running for president. There have been lots of questions. I think serious, unanswered questions about the e-mail here. But if you can establish there was no intent and there is carelessness in the system --
WALLACE: That’s not my question. What about the president weighing in?
WOODWARD: You know, look, he's a political figure. And that's up to him.
Karl made the critique. I think, you know, always better in a case like this with a sensitive case, it's a hot stove, don't touch it. He not only touched it, he put his arms around it.
WALLACE: George, your reaction to his comments?
GEORGE WILL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, it was on Fox News Channel, in the midst of what was supposed to be a Justice Department investigation of Lois Lerner and the IRS, and the president said prejudging the whole process, there is not a smidgeon of evidence of a scandal at the IRS.
Now, we know that the Justice Department investigation was a sham. It was part of the cover-up. They gave the investigation to an Obama contributor working in the Justice Department.
But it’s the whole approach to this, it’s a train wreck of non sequiturs. First, he said, well, she didn't do anything wrong because she was a good secretary of state. Then, he said, she didn't do anything intentionally wrong, whereas negligence, which is not intentionally doing something wrong, but doing something wrong any way is the heart of this.
Then, he went off on a tangent about over classification. He said, well, some of these might have been open source documents rather than -- she could have got elsewhere. Our enemies could have got elsewhere.
Finally, then he says, "I’ve got to be careful about this", which brings us back to the IRS and Lois Lerner. He is selectively careful about his intervention at least.
WALLACE: And the president talked about a lot more than just Hillary Clinton. He also talked about his -- it was the reason for the interview I think for the White House's point of view in the first place -- his nomination of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court. He talked about concerns about underreaction to terror attacks. He talked about the anger in the American voting public not only on the Trump side but also on the Bernie Sanders side.
Your thoughts about the interview in general?
ANNE GEARAN, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I mean, I think the Merrick Garland stuff is very interesting. He says definitively that he will not pull the nomination even if Hillary Clinton is elected, and that will essentially tie her hands.
I mean, if as we all presume that this doesn't even begin to come up for consideration until a lame duck session of Congress, then that means that he would either be confirmed or voted down, you know, before she takes office, as she takes office, sometime early in her period, which takes away a potential Supreme Court nomination for her.
She has also said that she -- this is the president's choice. She will not weigh in on it. She will not say that if elected she would like to make her own.
So, I think they are both clearing the field here. I thought that part was very interesting.
The terrorism stuff is very interesting. He gave a nuance defense of essentially why he acts the way he does and says the things he does about the degree of threat to the American people. I thought it was a very interesting in his response.
WALLACE: Karl, I want to ask you generally about the president. He didn’t -- I didn’t -- I didn't ask him about the Republican race because he likes to talk about that a lot on his own. I didn't think I needed to give up one of my questions on that, but he still took some veiled shots at Ted Cruz about carpet bombing, about Donald Trump about banning all Muslims.
And the question I have is, how potent can this president be in this election? You see him -- I know the number is 50 percent. And once their approval rating gets over 50 percent, they're seen as positive and under 50 percent they're seen as a drag. He's up over 50 percent in a lot of polls now.
How potent a force do you think he can be in this election?
ROVE: Well, he can be a potent force, but ironically, nothing he can do so by withdrawing from the scene. Why it is 50 percent today it’s because we're consumed with the Republican and Democratic contest for the presidency and he is largely receded from view.
The more he intrudes into this, the better it is for the Republicans and his numbers will go back down. He's been largely invisible in the content. If you look at the amount of time that's being devoted to him, it's much less than it was six months ago or nine months ago.
So, I welcome the president's attitude that he wants to be an active force in the presidential election because the more he is there and more reminds people about that this is a third term for him, it makes it less likely that people will grant them. In the modern era, we've had seven instances where the White House has been held by the same party for eight years and only one instance have they been able to win a third term.
If he were politically smart --
WALLACE: George H.W. Bush --
If he were politically smart, he'd make certain he has as low a profile as possible, not as big a profile. But I don't think he can help himself. He wants to opine about this in ways that I don't think are going to be constructive for the Democratic nominee.
WALLACE: Go ahead.
GEARAN: Well, I mean, I think that conflates the primary with the general, right? Right now, Hillary Clinton wants him around, and to an extent, Bernie Sanders as well. I mean, she's trying to tie herself, latch herself as closely as she can to the Obama legacy.
That may change in the general election. But for Democratic primary, that's exactly where she wants to be, why he wants him to be.
WALLACE: Go ahead.
WOODWARD: I thought one of the interesting things was his tone and his body language. He was very confident. He was quite happy. This -- going back to 2009, I talked to him about the terrorism and he said, oh, we can absorb a terrorist attack. He doesn't use that language, but essentially what he said to you is, hey, look, yes, could be a disaster. I'm trying to stop it. But it's not going to change the way we live. We're going to go to ball games.
WALLACE: They’re -- they’re going to kill us, but --
WILL: Yes, but --
WOODWARD: Like George.
WILL: The tone is part of the problem. Chris, you referred to his diffident tone. I think he comes across as condescension. I mean it’s one thing to say, as many people or more people die in bathtub accidents, but bathtubs aren’t trying to kill us. There’s a difference and the American people feel this between an individual accident and premeditated mass murder. And when he coolly says, if people only understood these numbers they would calm down, it inevitably communicates condescension to the people.
Now, this is a man who, after all, his own secretary of defense said rightly in my judgment that the biggest threats facing the country are Russia, China, Iran, North Korea and then ISIS. That's fine because ISIS isn't an existential threat. But then to go from that to bathtubs is -- is reducing the American people to children.
WALLACE: All right, we have to take a break here. We will have more of our interview with President Obama as he goes over the highlights and low lights of his eight years at the end of the program. But when we come back, we'll have brand new Fox polls from the big primary battle grounds of New York and Pennsylvania. The latest on the horse race in both parties, next.
WALLACE: Coming up, as the campaign turns ugly, we have new Fox polls on the New York and Pennsylvania primaries. Plus, more from our exclusive interview with President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Obviously, I’ve gotten older. But I suspect that in some ways the job may keep you younger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Next on FOX NEWS SUNDAY.
WALLACE: Now to the race for 2016 and the results of new Fox polls from the next two key battleground states. On the Republican side, after a big loss in Wisconsin, Donald Trump still dominates in his home state of New York, where they vote a week from Tuesday. He has 54 percent support, John Kasich is back at 22 percent and Ted Cruz is third with 15 percent. Trump also has a commanding lead in Pennsylvania, the biggest delegate prize of the five states voting April 26th. He's at 48 percent. That’s more than the combined support for Kasich and Cruz.
Now, on the Democratic side in the battle of New York, Bernie Sanders is going to have a tough time stringing an upset there. Hillary Clinton still has a big lead, 53 percent to 37 percent. And in Pennsylvania, one week later, she tops Sanders 49 percent to 38 percent.
And we're back now with the panel.
Well, after Ted Cruz won big in Wisconsin this last week, Donald Trump finally retooled his campaign, bringing in Paul Manafort, who’s been working for Republican presidential candidates since Gerald Ford, all the way back in 1976.
Karl, is Trump making the right move bringing in some experience and do you think it's enough to make a difference in the rest of this race?
ROVE: Yes, it's the right move, but it's probably months if not over a year late. This is a -- we have two processes. You apportion the delegates by primaries and caucuses. You select the delegates by district conventions and state conventions. And they're bringing in somebody to focus now on that second part but their -- we have had 30 --
WALLACE: Let me just -- let me just distinguish. The -- when you say they allocate the delegates, that’s how many you win. But in terms of who the person is sitting in the chair, that's made in the convention?
ROVE: That's right. Well, there are a few states in which you actually like name the -- the candidates names the delegates. But in most instances, they're elected a district in state convention.
WALLACE: And why is that important as to who’s in the chair?
ROVE: Because I -- I was speaking in San Antonio on Saturday -- or on Friday night at the Lincoln Day Dinner and a former national committee woman from another state happened to be visiting her daughter, showed up, have -- was visiting with her and she said, I'm a Trump delegate. I said are you for Trump? She said, only on the first ballot. And the people will -- a lot of the delegates we know -- in South Carolina, for example, over the weekend, they start electing delegates. There was a Rubio delegate elected as one of the unbound delegates from the state of -- of South Carolina. I don't think she's likely to be voting for Trump. So we are likely to see this process play out where -- where they are behind -- the Trump campaign is behind the eight ball. They don't have state chairman. They don’t have people organized in those district and state convention and -- and has given --
WALLACE: And -- and is there enough time between now and July to --
ROVE: Well, a lot of those contests are -- are -- they’ve -- they’ve all --virtually all of them have begun now and -- and -- and -- and it -- you can't do this overnight because you're talking about literally thousands upon thousands of delegates to the state convention. In Texas we have 14,000 state convention delegates who are going to elect the delegates who represent those people.
WALLACE: Now, as we said, New York is the next big battleground. And that's where they're campaigning now. And Trump is going to every length he can to remind voters in New York about Cruz's attack on him back in Iowa about his, quote, "New York values." Here's how Cruz explained that attack back then.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal, are pro-abortion, are pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: But now that he's actually campaigning in New York, Cruz is explaining things a bit differently. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: The values of liberal Democratic politicians, like Andrew Cuomo, like Anthony Weiner, all of whom Donald Trump has supported, given tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: George, how big a problem do you think talking about New York values in a disdainful way, how much of a problem is that for Cruz when he’s campaigning in New York? And this rush of the establishment now to embrace Ted Cruz is part of the top stop Trump movement. How uneasy a fit is that?
WILL: Well, it's an uneasy fit, but I don't think the New York values hurts him in New York because he's really not trying to win New York either now or in November. He's trying to pick up delegates. That's why he went to a Dominican Chinese restaurant -- you have to love this country -- Dominican Chinese restaurant in a -- the most Democratic district in the country in the Bronx, where Mitt Romney got 3 percent of the vote last time. Why did he go there? Because each 20 -- of the 27 districts in New York --
WALLACE: Congressional districts.
WILL: Congressional districts gets three delegates. And he can pick up delegates along the way and hold Mr. Trump below 75 delegates perhaps and have a success.
Now, about New York values, he was not saying New York firemen are any less brave than New Mexico firemen. That’s not the point. 9/11 is not the point. He was saying, I’m campaigning in a city which last September the city council voted to honor Ethel Rosenberg, the traitor, who, with her husband Julius, sold out the United States secret to Stalin'. This is a city in which the mayor has spent part of his youth working for the Sandinistas. There are New York political values and they are not shared by the rest of the country.
WALLACE: Do you buy that, Anne, that when he was talking about New York values, he was talking about Mayor de Blasio, but in -- when he was talking in the heartland of Iowa?
GEARAN: He -- well, yes, to -- to -- to a large degree. I mean I think he was talking about New York City and the -- and the concentration of liberal politicians and liberal sentiment there. Upstate New York is a very different place. I'm from Rochester. It's a pretty Republican town, as is much of upstate and (INAUDIBLE) New York.
WALLACE: But he also talked about money and the media.
GEARAN: Yes, and -- and I think that plays well outside New York, maybe not as well in -- in upstate New York, as attacks on New York City do. But attacks on New York City play great in upstate.
WALLACE: OK. Well, let's talk about the Democrats. Now that Bernie Sanders has won seven straight contests, he's sharpened his attacks on Hillary Clinton, going after her as to whether or not she's even qualified. And it -- it created quite a battle this week. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC. I don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq.
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been called a lot of things over the years, but unqualified has not been one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Anne, not just in New York, where does this Democratic race stand right now?
GEARAN: Well, certainly New York is the -- the center of it right now and it’s a pretty good microcosm for the rest of the race. It -- it stands with Hillary Clinton still comfortably ahead in delegates, particularly when you count in the super delegates, and in the popular vote and apparently still on a path to being the nominee. Her campaign is trying to cloak the results yesterday from Wyoming with -- with inevitability like kind of, that’s nice, Bernie, congratulations, Bernie, but this -- you -- this -- you're running a futile effort.
What we saw there was Bernie feeling his oats, right? He has -- he’s had a string of very impressive victories coupled with a lot of -- of real, on the ground, strategies. Their -- they are trying to win delegates. They're trying to do on the Democratic side what -- what you were eluding to, to Trump not doing strategically on -- on the other side. And they are -- Bernie’s got a lot of reason to want to stay in. He’s got a lot of momentum. He’s got a lot of money. And he will not go away.
WOODWARD: Well, I -- I think she won that round because she is qualified. And he never should have said she's unqualified. What he was arguing, she is disqualified because she voted for the war in Iraq and she did some of these other things. But you -- you're never going to win -- I mean she is the most qualified and there’s lots of criticism and I think the e-mail issue is ticking away and may tick away for a long time. But she has an amazing amount of experience.
The problem is, and -- and this goes back -- she is not connected with enough voters. People repeatedly say they think she's dishonest. She's not talking to them straight. And I think at some point, particularly on the e-mail issue, she's got to come out and kind of say, look, I'm going answer all the questions. I'm going to tell you exactly what happened and not look at this as some sort of legal battle. It is a political battle. It is a public relations battle. Now, I think all the inclinations she has and her lawyers have don't do that, but I think that's a lingering problem.
WALLACE: I -- you talk about her and -- and continuing vulnerabilities. I want to put up some numbers from the Wisconsin exit polls from last Tuesday, which are pretty alarming if you're in the Clinton camp. Among voters under 45, Sanders beat Clinton 73 percent to 26 percent. Among independents, Sanders beat her 72 percent to 28 percent. Now, look, you know, I think some Democrats are saying, look, she'll end up running against Trump. She’ll end up running against Cruz and the Democrats will line up. But -- but she's got some real vulnerabilities as a candidates, doesn't she?
WOODWARD: And I -- I think the issue that lingers going back to Vietnam and Nixon's trouble and so forth, they want a president who talks straight to them. And -- and she does -- too often doesn't seem like she's talking straight. And at the same time she has the capacity, in a one-on-one extended interview, to really sound knowledgeable and straightforward. So she -- she's got a hurdle to get over. This is more than a mere bump in the road (INAUDIBLE).
WALLACE: Karl, your -- your thoughts about Clinton’s strengths and weaknesses?
ROVE: Well, first of all, look, let's not kid ourselves. The Democratic contest is over. I mean the super delegates, the house of lords in the Democratic Party are now splitting 469-31. They're about 212 more of them to go. But that’s -- that’s -- that's -- that’s sort of like the election of Romania, you know, 97 some odd to seven. And if you look at it, all she has to win from here forward is 32 percent of the delegates in order to be the Democratic nominee. He has to win 67.5 percent of the delegates.
WALLACE: But -- but how about the weaknesses that you see?
ROVE: Oh, the weaknesses --
WALLACE: First of all, that she’s lost seven in a row --
WALLACE: And that among young people, among independents --
ROVE: Well, yes, look, first of all, the seven in a row, that cut her lead among the electorate delegates --
WALLACE: I'm not talking about that. I’m talking about what that says about her candidacy.
ROVE: Yes, if -- it hasn't had a big impact on the -- on the out -- the eventual outcome, but are there things in there that are problematic in a general election? Absolutely. Lack of enthusiasm, inability to connect with millennials. This is why, if you take a look at the favorable, unfavorable, of all of the presidential candidates going back 40 some odd years, she is the lowest, she is well below the -- the bar of -- of where her faves are outnumbered dramatically by her unfavorable. Forty percent favorable, 58 percent unfavorable. The only candidate on the scene who’s in worse shape is Donald J. Trump. But she is worse than any Democratic or Republican candidate since we began asking favorable and unfavorable in the 1972 campaign. And, as a result, she has got to -- and she has got a real problem in the general election against a Republican candidate who can take advantage of those weaknesses.
WALLACE: And that, of course, is the key, George, whether or not there will be a Republican candidate who can take advantage.
WILL: Well, let's go back to the super delegates. After the riotous '68 convention, which nominated Hubert Humphry, who’d won zero primaries, they created super delegates. They created -- democratized the process and they got George McGovern as a result of the McGovern Commission. As a result of the McGovern debacle, they created super delegates to prevent another McGovern, which is to say to prevent Bernie Sanders, and it's going to work.
WALLACE: All right, thank you, panel. See you next Sunday.
When we come back, President Obama takes a walk down memory lane about the highs and lows of the last eight years.
WALLACE: A look outside the beltway at the University of Chicago Law School, where we sat down this week with President Obama. And we're back now with more of our exclusive conversation with the president.
We talked with Mr. Obama in the library at the law school where he taught for 12 years. He reminisced about that and a presidency that is winding down.
WALLACE: Since I'm sure this is a sentimental journey for you, I'd like to do a lightning round --
WALLACE: About the past eight years. Quick questions, quick answers.
WALLACE: Best day in the White House?
OBAMA: The day that we passed health care reform. And we sat out on the Truman Balcony with all the staff that had worked so hard on it and I -- I knew what it would mean for the families that I’d met who didn't have health care.
WALLACE: Worst day in the White House?
OBAMA: The day we traveled up to Newtown after Sandy Hook.
WALLACE: No explanation needed there.
WALLACE: Biggest accomplishment?
OBAMA: Saving the economy from a great depression.
WALLACE: Worst mistake?
OBAMA: Probably failing to plan for the day after what I think was the right thing to do in intervening in Libya.
WALLACE: What you're going to miss most when you leave office?
OBAMA: Other than Air Force One?
WALLACE: No, that's a -- that’s a -- that’s an answer.
OBAMA: Yes. Well, you miss -- what I'll miss most is the breadth of interactions you have with the American people. When you are president, you meet people from every walk of life, every region and it gives you a unique appreciation for this unbelievable country of ours.
WALLACE: What you're looking forward to most when you leave office?
OBAMA: Being able to take a walk outside.
WALLACE: I -- I have to ask, with all due respect, when you look at yourself in the mirror, and you’ve got a little bit more gray hair than you had, and you look back over these last eight years, has it been a tough job? Has it aged you?
OBAMA: You know, I don't think it has aged me spiritually or mentally. Obviously, I’ve gotten older. But I suspect that in some ways the job may keep you younger just because every day is a new challenge. It is fascinating. It is an extraordinary privilege. I, you know, I -- I have no doubt that when I leave the office, after a day, a week, a month, maybe six months, you'll start realizing that day to day burdens that you are carrying and you'll probably be a little bit lighter. But, on the other hand, the degree to which every part of you is tested and engaged, that keeps you young.
WALLACE: Now, we’ve ended up here and there’s a plaque. "Barack Obama, president of the United States, senior lecturer at Chicago Law School, wrote ‘Dreams From My Father’ in this office."
OBAMA: How about that? It is true that I -- I got an offer to come. I could write and teach a seminar and eventually I end up teaching here at the university.
WALLACE: Can -- can we go in?
OBAMA: We -- we -- we should go in. I will tell you that it was pretty Spartan then.
WALLACE: Oh, my Lord.
OBAMA: And it is pretty Spartan now.
WALLACE: This -- quite a journey from the Oval Office, starting here.
OBAMA: The Oval -- the Oval has better light.
WALLACE: It’s got more room too.
OBAMA: It's got a little more room. I don't even think I had a -- a plant. Partly because I don't have a green thumb and I -- I was sure --
WALLACE: You -- you don’t --
OBAMA: Unlike Michelle with her garden, I was pretty sure that --
WALLACE: Yes. Given what "Dreams From My Father," what was your dream back then? You certainly didn’t think president.
OBAMA: Finishing. Finishing that book.
WALLACE: Finishing the book.
OBAMA: Because I was -- I was a -- I was past the deadline.
WALLACE: So what would you tell -- if you could go back 12 years in time -- that law professor? What would you tell him that he didn't know about how the world works?
OBAMA: Well, first of all, that law professors back then would think I was crazy saying that somehow you might end up being president. You know what? What I would tell him is what I was telling some of those law students downstairs, that for all the frustrations of democracy and all the contention, it is not always a straight line, but if you put your shoulder to the wheel and you have faith in our democracy and our system, it works.
WALLACE: So it's more complicated than people would have understood then?
OBAMA: Absolutely. And, you know, I think that when you're outside of the system, you are properly outraged at this ineptitude of the government or this corruption or this issue that you feel deeply about. When you're in it, what you realize is, is that if you follow this process, if you're respectful of this process, then we can sort it out. And not everybody’s going to be completely happy with it. But it will beat any other system given that we are human and given original sin. You know, this is going to work about as well as it can.
WALLACE: Mr. President, thank you.
OBAMA: Thank you.
WALLACE: Thanks for talking with us.
OBAMA: Enjoyed you bringing me back here.
WALLACE: Again, what a remarkable journey from that cubbyhole all the way to the Oval Office.
Up next, our continuing efforts to book another guest.
WALLACE: As we said, it took us eight years to get President Obama back on "Fox News Sunday," ever since he was running in 2008. This year we sat down with every candidate except Hillary Clinton. We invite her on every week and her campaign turns us down every week. But we'll keep trying.
Now, this program note, tune in to Fox News Channel tonight for "Fox News Reporting," "Donald Trump: The Disrupter," anchored by Bret Baier.
And that's it for today. Have a great week and we'll see you next "Fox News Sunday."
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