This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," March 24, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, GUEST HOST: Welcome to the "Hannity" program. In the wake of the deadly Brussels terror attacks, President Obama is under fire from being out of touch with his own country.
I'm Tucker Carlson, in tonight for Sean.
After ignoring repeated calls to return to Washington to deal with the growing threat of radical Islam, last night at a state dinner in Buenos Aires, Argentina, the president found it appropriate to take to the dance floor to tango. And earlier this week, just hours after those attacks took place in Brussels, President Obama attended a baseball game in Cuba with the president of that country, Raul Castro, and did the wave. So do these examples prove that our president is out of touch with the threat of radical Islam?
Joining us now to answer that question, among others, Fox News legal analyst Peter Johnson, Jr., co-host of "The Five" Juan Williams and Fox News contributor Eboni Williams.
Eboni, since you're closest, I want to start with you and the president's first reaction, that 50 seconds he devoted in his speech in Cuba to the Brussels terror attacks. As he spoke, he was in a country that was for decades designated a state sponsor of terror, Cuba.
Do you think the irony penetrated at all?
EBONI WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, Tucker, I think that the president -- I don't like the optics of it. I don't like the way it looks. But if you talk to the White House -- and The Wall Street Journal has a piece that talks at length about it -- the president's trying to be strategic here.
He's saying that, Look, I'm not going to overreact, I recognize what this is and what this means to my country, but I'm not going to feed into a narrative that says that we're going to operate from a place of fear. That's at least his stated strategy.
CARLSON: But you know, Juan, that's what's going on, is Valerie Jarrett and his wife are getting in his ear and saying, Anyone who's against us is a bigot, stay strong, you know what you're doing. But there is a point where the president has to provide visual leadership. Optics matter. If President Roosevelt in 1933 at the depths of depression has gone skiing in Staadt (ph), it would not have been reassuring to the American people.
How is that different from this?
JUAN WILLIAMS, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: Oh, it's very different. I mean, clearly, that was a threat to our country's economic structure and system, and you had people literally in food lines, Tucker. Here we have a situation where there's a threat, but if you react to it out of fear, I think you can paralyze the country, and in fact, feed the terrorist narrative, which is that, We will dictate how you live, where you go and what you do.
And the second thing is, in terms of military response -- I think the president might have said something like this -- if you just start bombing things to say we're tough, you're really not making a difference.
CARLSON: Right, but what you do need to do, Peter, the president has explained, is allow the government to read your e-mails. So at the same time that they're saying it's not such a big deal, it's not a real threat to us, you've got to take your shoes off, we have -- look at your bank account, read your personal communications.
PETER JOHNSON, JR., FOX LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.
CARLSON: I really don't understand. Is it an existential threat or is it not?
JOHNSON: Yes, it's an existential threat, and it's an ex post facto rationalization when you react poorly to a dramatic world event and you continue to go dancing and you continue to wave with the same man who attacked your country the day before, and you stood there mute as if it was a joke, then that's part and parcel of era of appeasement that's about to come an end in this country.
But you can say, Well, you know, the president was being cool, and you know, we're not going to react to it. We're going to go about our daily lives.
Well, we should go about our public lives, yes. We should go into the public square. But he's the president. What is he doing and how is he demonstrating that he's bringing together the world against this terroristic threat, which is existential to -- it absolutely threatens our way of life.
CARLSON: Well, even he is worrying about it, though, but in a different way from the way most Americans are, Eboni. You've seen the president repeatedly, he alluded to it in his remarks from Havana the other day, allude to the idea that the real problem is our reaction to this. That's why his attorney general said, What I fear most is that people might be biased against Muslims.
He's seeing this through the filter of, I don't know what, American history or something. He's not seeing this clearly, is he.
E. WILLIAMS: What I'm seeing, to Peter's point, is a messaging kind of conflict where on one hand, there's this message of we're going to -- to Juan's point -- retain American values, retain liberty and freedom and those American values. But the other hand also, Tucker, acknowledging this is the most important priority. He said that in recent days. ISIS and defeating ISIS is a priority. So I think he's got a messaging conflict that I don't think reads well to some.
CARLSON: Here's what we can agree on, I think, that the problems we're seeing in Europe are fundamentally the result of immigration and refugee resettlement policy. I mean, I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: Excuse me. I would disagree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... people who committed these crimes...
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: In fact, the two men who committed this crime were both born in Brussels...
CARLSON: That's exactly right.
J. WILLIAMS: ... and Belgian citizens. So that's not an immigration problem.
CARLSON: Children and grandchildren of immigrants, OK, people who've not assimilated into the society.
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: ... a lot of those in America.
CARLSON: But here's the point. Can you state for me crisply why the president's plan to resettle Syrian refugees into this country helps America? Why is that good for Americans?
J. WILLIAMS: Are you kidding me?
CARLSON: Not at all. I haven't heard one person explain it.
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: First of all, the Europeans are resettling tens of times of more...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And look how it's going. It's really...
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: You connect these terror attacks done by people who are citizens of Belgium...
CARLSON: I had a simple question.
J. WILLIAMS: ... and I will say...
CARLSON: How is it good for America?
J. WILLIAMS: America is a land of immigrants. That's who we are as American people.
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: Let me just say it's not about virtue. It's about principles. It's about the idea that you can come to this land of opportunity, democracy and political freedom, a beacon to the world, and know that it still burns. We are not shutting our doors out of fear.
CARLSON: OK, so how is it good for us again?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I just want to clear this up so that going forward, we have a baseline. Is the principle we're defending the idea that anybody in need has a moral right to come here, and we the moral obligation to shelter and pay for their existence here?
JOHNSON: It's a complex question. We have a history of sheltering immigrants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do.
JOHNSON: We have a history of sheltering those in need.
CARLSON: OK.
JOHNSON: But at the same time, never in our history have we had the security and safety issues that we face with radical Islam. We need to be absolutely vigilant about who comes to these shores, but at the same time, we need to preserve and protect who we are as a people.
CARLSON: Because -- because why? Nobody has given me an honest answer!
JOHNSON: I am the grandson of...
CARLSON: How does this help the average American?
JOHNSON: I am a grandson of immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm glad! And so are most people...
JOHNSON: No, no, no, but...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: There is also a time in this country with nativists and know- nothing parties...
CARLSON: That's 100 years ago.
JOHNSON: ... like that that inculcated this spirit that we should be rejecting the aliens.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: With all respect, that is silly. I'm asking...
JOHNSON: No, no.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... a simple question, and I'd like a simple answer!
E. WILLIAMS: I'm going to give you a simple answer.
CARLSON: How does the average person benefit from the resettlement of Syrian refugees?
E. WILLIAMS: I'm going to give you...
(CROSSTALK)
E. WILLIAMS: OK, respectively to Peter's point, that I think he laid out a good answer, but he said he feels like it's a complex answer. To you, Tucker, I say it's simple. I agree with you. It's simple.
CARLSON: OK.
E. WILLIAMS: That's an American value that these two gentlemen have laid out, and I think it's worthwhile. I also, though, think when the FBI director, James Comey, says we haven't perfected a way for intelligence to help us in this process of vetting these people that are coming over to take part in the American dream, I think that there's no more analysis for me. That's the simplicity of it.
CARLSON: OK. Well, I'm still completely confused.
J. WILLIAMS: You want to say a dollar amount?
CARLSON: I don't want a dollar amount! I want you to appeal to something other than historical sentimentalism.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... previous generations have come here as immigrants and thrived doesn't speak to the average American unemployed now...
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: The average American is not unemployed.
CARLSON: ... speak to the average American who may be unemployed as to why this, and many are...
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: I think you want a dollar amount and...
CARLSON: I don't want a dollar amount!
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I want a sensible answer!
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: Let me pose the question...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: Tucker, is it essentially American to send police in cars around to Muslim neighborhoods...
J. WILLIAMS: No.
JOHNSON: ... and say to them, Listen, you're Muslim, we're going to watch you really carefully unless you have some...
CARLSON: This is what we say in the legal profession is a red herring!
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm asking, why resettle them here? What is the benefit to the average person? And nobody has answered.
J. WILLIAMS: I keep answering this question!
CARLSON: No, you don't!
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
J. WILLIAMS: I tell you what. I tell you what. Let's not take these Jews who are fleeing...
CARLSON: Oh, that's appalling. That's appalling!
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That was also 80 years ago. I mean right now!
J. WILLIAMS: Those Japanese...
CARLSON: 75 years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
J. WILLIAMS: Oh, we better -- we better put them in...
CARLSON: This is why...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: This is why Trump exists because nobody can give a straight answer...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: So your view is that because they are Muslim, they cannot come to the United States...
CARLSON: That's silly. That is not my view.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is not my view. That's not what I have said. I didn't state my view. I asked you answer a simple question. You're unable and...
J. WILLIAMS: No, no!
CARLSON: ... immediately start calling names!
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... not going to let the Jews in fleeing the Nazis! What?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I asked you a simple question! Why do we benefit...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... and you go crazy!
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: When you're faced with facts, that's not silly. You can say that something is silly...
CARLSON: No, I'm asking about...
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: ... but when we point to historical precedent in this country...
CARLSON: Right.
JOHNSON: ... of welcoming people that a lot of people that look like you and look like me found to be inimical to our way of life, said that they were (ph) threatening who America was, and they turned out to be the bedrock of this nation.
CARLSON: No one would deny that. That's still not an answer.
JOHNSON: I will not make prejudgment about people because they are Muslims, they are Catholics, they are Episcopalians...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is name calling, not an answer!
JOHNSON: ... and a lot of folks want to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: We're out of time.
J. WILLIAMS: This is me at the Statue of Liberty. And I know that for you, it doesn't have a dollar amount, but to me, it means everything.
JOHNSON: I believe in stopping the terrorists, whoever they are. And if they're Muslim terrorists, keep them out.
CARLSON: OK.
JOHNSON: But let's not have -- let's not abrogate our golden rule in America.
CARLSON: And to be totally clear, I wasn't suggesting that and it's unfair to suggest that I was. I'm not policing anybody's neighborhood on the basis of religion, creed or race. That's appalling.
JOHNSON: I understand that.
CARLSON: And I'm certainly not for that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But I appreciate you all coming on. Thank you very much.
J. WILLIAMS: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: Coming up -- Donald Trump says he can get the number of delegates needed to secure the Republican nomination before the convention in July. What happens if he can't do that? Pat Buchanan joins us next. He says Trump's campaign has exposed, quote, "the underbelly of a decaying establishment." He joins us next.
And then later...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, R-FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: She helped create ISIS. I mean, Hillary Clinton could be considered a founding member of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: A strong statement from former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani. Monica Crowley, Julie Roginsky here with reaction. That and more as this show continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." Politico, a blog based in northern Virginia, is out with a new report with this headline. Quote, "Shadow campaign to deny Trump his delegates begins." According to that story, campaign operatives are battling behind the scenes even as we speak to try to convince bound delegates who already pledged to Donald Trump to switch their support if there is, in fact, a contested convention this summer in Ohio.
Here to react to this, author of the book "The Greatest Comeback," Patrick J. Buchanan. Pat, I always think, when people say, I can't believe this is happen, who would have predicted we'd have a political season like this, that you did, actually, quite some time ago, you predicted we would see the turmoil that we're seeing now.
What do you make of the efforts to stop Trump at the convention or before? Where (ph) do they grow out of?
PAT BUCHANAN, "THE GREATEST COMEBACK" AUTHOR: I think the establishment's really looking ridiculous here, Tucker. Where they grew out of is, you know, desperation, and here's a sense that Donald Trump represents a threat to the agenda of the establishment, the personnel of the establishment.
If he's nominated and elected, it becomes a different kind of Republican Party. And what you're seeing, I think, is sort of the stark terror of the establishment in what they're doing.
CARLSON: What's so interesting to me is that you've heard relatively little complaint about his actual policy positions. You've heard really more on the left about it. But on the right, you've heard mostly just kind of name calling -- he's a bigot, he's a sexist, he's a racist, likening him to Hitler, to Stalin.
Once you say things like that, once you call your opponent immoral, it seems to me there's really no common ground. You can't kind of fix that when it's all over, can you.
BUCHANAN: Well, no, you can't. And of course, Trump has used his own language, "lyin' Ted" and "little Marco" and some of the -- and "low-energy Jeb" and all the rest of it.
But listen, I do think there is substance here, Tucker. When those 116 largely neocons really took an Oxford oath, We will not support Donald Trump if he's our nominee, and some of them announced they're going to support Hillary Rodham Clinton, I think a lot of rice bowls in this city are threatened.
And Trump's agenda on immigration, his agenda on trade threatens the Chamber of Commerce's agenda. His foreign policy agenda threatens a lot of what's been transpiring since the end of the cold war.
I think there really is a substantive threat here, and I think the establishment is very right to be worried in a lot of ways.
CARLSON: Well, it does seem to me, in the case of a lot of Republicans in Washington -- some Republicans in Washington -- Hillary Clinton's foreign policy is closer to theirs than Donald Trump's is. Do you think that's right?
BUCHANAN: Sure. I think it's Hillary Clinton and -- I mean, she voted for the Iraq war, she voted for all those trade deals, she was a NAFTA gal back in the '90s. On trade and on foreign policy, she's much closer to the establishment here. And that's why I think you're seeing some of them peel off. Some of them could easily wind up, I think, in a Hillary Clinton administration.
But let me say this about the establishment here. You're really seeing desperation. The real character is revealed, as I said, the rotten underbelly of the establishment. You got secret meetings down in Sea Island, Georgia, in Palm Beach, the Army Navy Club. We're going to get a conservative Republican, a good Republican conservative like Rick Perry and put him on a ticket and sink the Republican Party.
This really is, as I called it, dog in the manger politics. If we can't control the party, we're going to sink the party. And I think everyone sees it.
But to be truthful, Tucker, I think basically that -- I think Trump is probably going to win this on the first ballot, and his only real challenger is Cruz because you add the Cruz and Trump delegates together, they are not for the Beltway and the Beltway's not going to put some sock puppet in there at Cleveland.
CARLSON: So if you're right, and I think you probably are, the Republican Party, no matter what happens, no matter who wins the primary, no matter who wins the general, will not be the same. I don't know if it's broken or shattered or just remade or whatever. What's it going to look like, do you think? What will it stand for?
BUCHANAN: I think the -- let's say this. The establishment is being repudiated in Washington, D.C., not only the establishment itself, the people and the people they put forward, but the agenda is, on trade and on foreign policy and on immigration.
And I think if you get Trump as the nominee, his potential is going to those states where he did well -- Michigan and I think he's going to do well in Pennsylvania and New Jersey -- go to those Rust Belt states, go after the Bernie Sanders Democrats, you know, white working class folks, Reagan Democrats, and go and put together that kind of coalition.
If he could get the Cruz people with him, I think you have the makings of a different, new, exciting robust party, a lot of raw edges, rough edges. We had a lot in 1964, Tucker, when in June of '64 -- I just looked it up today -- Barry Goldwater was only 59 points behind after he won the California primary.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Yes.
BUCHANAN: We said, We're still going to march up Cemetery Ridge. We don't care.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: That's pretty good! So I mean, do you -- I mean, who's going to run the party? Let's say Cruz gets it, and Trump, you know, is beaten by Cruz before the convention. Will it still be the party that...
BUCHANAN: I think...
CARLSON: ... Trump seems to represent? Is he going to keep going in the populist direction, no matter what?
BUCHANAN: I think if Cruz beats Trump -- I think -- I mean, all these people coming out, where did they all come from in voting? Frankly, some of them came out to vote against Trump. But most of them came out to vote for Trump because he's a populist conservative. He's going to secure the border, make America great, all of these things, his positive, optimistic outlook.
I think if Cruz takes it away from Trump, I think an awful lot of those folks just go home. I don't see -- but Cruz is the only one that can win it, but he's more of a, if you will, a cookie-cutter, conventional, solid, I mean, gold-plated conservative, as they were known, you know, in the Reagan era.
My view has been since the '90s, we are in a new world after we won the cold war and people are coming into the country. The issues in Europe aren't what they were. The whole world has changed, and the establishment seems to be locked into yesterday.
CARLSON: Is it strange for you, who've been in Washington, well, your whole life, but who famously worked for President Nixon all those years, and have been a conservative writer for 50 years, to hear much younger people lecture you about what it means to be conservative? Is that strange?
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: I think National Review has excommunicated me several times from the conservative movement, Tucker.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Me and my friend, Novak, were excommunicated for opposing the Iraq war. Can you imagine that? And we turned out to be right. and A lot of other people said, Why are we doing this?
I mean, I -- I was with the conservatives. We were together during the cold war, the great evil Soviet empire, all the rockets, missiles, right on the Elbe River. But when that disappears, the Warsaw pact disappears and the Russians go home and the Soviet Union's only two thirds -- or Russia's two thirds of the size of the Soviet Union, maybe we do need to take a look at NATO.
What is it about these folks that I think they do not recognize the world, new world we are in. And I think Trump -- he's not an ideological conservative, but instinctively, he sees an $800 billion deficit, and a lot of it with China and Mexico and Japan.
CARLSON: Yes.
BUCHANAN: He says, What's going on?
CARLSON: Twenty-five years after the fall of the Soviet Union, the Republican Party takes notice and reorganizes...
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Yes, are you criticizing NATO?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, I'm not taking sides, Pat! It's great to see you tonight. Thanks a lot for coming on.
BUCHANAN: Good seeing you, Tucker.
CARLSON: Coming up next right here on "Hannity"...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: She helped create ISIS. I mean, Hillary Clinton could be considered a founding member of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Wow! That's former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, and he wasn't mincing words. Monica Crowley and Julie Roginsky are here next with their reaction.
And then a disturbing new report from the Associated Press reveals that ISIS has trained hundreds of its fighters to attack Europe. Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and "Extreme Ownership" author Leif Babin will be here to weigh in on that.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to the Sean Hannity program. Hillary Clinton has been attacking her 2016 Republican rivals over their proposals to get tough in the fight against Islamic terrorism.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The last thing we need, my friends, are leaders who incite more fear. In the face of terror, America doesn't panic. We don't build walls or turn our backs on our allies. What Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and others are suggesting is not only wrong, it's dangerous!
It would also be a serious mistake to begin carpet bombing populated areas into oblivion. Proposing that doesn't make you sound tough, it makes you sound like you're in over your head. Slogans aren't a strategy. Loose cannons tend to misfire. What America needs is strong, smart, steady leadership to wage and win this struggle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: OK. That was the first round. Then last night, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani said that Hillary Clinton was, in fact, secretary of state when ISIS first formed. Then he went beyond that. He slammed Clinton for not doing more to stop the terror group's rise. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: She helped create ISIS. I mean, Hillary Clinton could be considered a founding member of ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Well, here with reaction, Fox News contributors Julie Roginsky and Monica Crowley. Monica's also a columnist at The Washington Times. Welcome to you both.
Julie, I know you're shaking your head. You're outraged. You can't believe that the mayor said that! But let me suggest one interpretation that's not crazy at all. And that is Syria. It has no leader. It is home to more ISIS fighters, we believe, than any place -- Libya, rather -- than any place in the world.
JULIE ROGINSKY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
CARLSON: And part of the reason is because Hillary Clinton and the U.S. government abetted the killing of the leader of that country, Moammar Qaddafi, for reasons that still aren't clear.
ROGINSKY: Well, listen, if you want to go and talk about history, I would say ISIS arose from disaffected Saddam Hussein army colonels who we did nothing to enfranchise when we took over Iraq, we went in there. As a result, ISIS arose. And I think that's just a fact.
And so if Rudy Giuliani wants to start casting blame, he could start casting blame on Bush and on Cheney and on himself and on other people who decided they wanted to go to Iraq and go to the Middle East.
What I don't understand about Rudy Giuliani and his view on this, is what should we have done? Should we have invaded Libya? Should we have invaded Syria? Should we have invaded Iraq again? I mean, how many military adventures are we going to have in how many countries in to the Middle East in order to do this? If that's what he's suggesting, I'd like to hear it.
CARLSON: Well, here's what's so interesting, Monica, is that he's actually attacking a military venture that went wrong, and that was our intervention in Libya. And so for liberals upset about the war in Iraq, and I think that's valid to be upset about the war in Iraq, one of the obvious conclusions one draws is, Don't kill the guy in charge if you don't have something better to replace him with. And yet that's exactly what the Obama administration did, and ISIS benefited.
MONICA CROWLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that's right. And all criticism here is fair. We're in the middle of a presidential campaign, and Mrs. Clinton is already running a general election campaign.
Look, in those clips and those speeches that she gave this week, Tucker, you would never know that she was President Obama's secretary of state for four years. You would never know that she was actually the steward of American foreign policy and national security for all of that time! It's like she's arriving on the scene for the first time here and that she had nothing to do with any of this!
She's going to be running on a record of so-called experience here, but her tenure as secretary of state has been an absolute disaster! You and Julie were talking about Libya. Libya was her portfolio, the Russian reset. We see what happened there. Vladimir Putin is running wild, Crimea, eastern Ukraine, and so on, in Syria, in the Middle East. We see what's happening with the Iranian nuclear deal. All of these things happened on her watch!
And as far as the rise of ISIS goes and what Rudy Giuliani just said -- again, all criticism is fair. But remember, when she was secretary of state, she supported and helped to carry out the precipitous withdrawal of American troops from Iraq, which created the void into which ISIS marched! So yes, she is just as culpable for the rise of ISIS as the president of the United States!
ROGINSKY: But let me -- let me say this, Tucker. We didn't go in there and kill Moammar Qaddafi. The Libyans went in there and killed Moammar Qaddafi. What you're suggesting is it would have done what? We would have had...
CARLSON: No, no!
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm suggesting that American air cover made it -- made it possible.
ROGINSKY: Oh, listen, in the same way that American air cover made what possible? You're talking about the fact that these people went over there and killed the head of Libya, the president of Libya, (INAUDIBLE) dictator...
CARLSON: But...
ROGINSKY: And what should we have done?
CARLSON: With the encouragement of the U.S. government.
ROGINSKY: What should we have done?
CARLSON: I mean, the Obama administration saw him, Samantha Power and Hillary Clinton, all people ostensibly so concerned with human rights, as this abuser of his people.
ROGINSKY: And what should we have done? Should we have sent a navy in there off the coast of Libya, off the coast Tripoli to make that they weren't going to do that? Should we have intervened in their civil war?
CARLSON: I don't know. I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You're the one who's upset, and I think correctly, about the vacuum left after the fall of Saddam Hussein. So isn't the obvious lesson, you want to do everything you possibly can to maintain order above all? And then you can deal with human rights and democracy and the rest.
ROGINSKY: The obvious lesson for me...
CARLSON: Yes.
ROGINSKY: ... is that we should never have nation built anywhere in the Middle East.
CARLSON: Well, that's exactly...
ROGINSKY: And includes not going into places like Syria because, frankly, I'm not so sure the alternative to what's going on in Syria is better than what had been going on in Syria the last 40 years. As horrible as Assad has...
CARLSON: Well, exactly! They have no -- they have no idea...
ROGINSKY: And so that's the problem. So what's Rudy saying here? What is he -- what's his solution to this?
CARLSON: I look -- look, Monica, I think we can all agree with President Obama and his acolytes, including Hillary Clinton, that the real cause of Islamic terror is global warming. Can you agree with that?
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: No, I can't. But that's apparently what the president authentically believes. He and his team have just said this week, in light of the Brussels attacks and so on, that the greatest threat to global security is climate change.
This is who he is. This is what he believes. It's not a mystery. We've had seven years of this. And when we talk about the rise of Donald Trump and/or Ted Cruz, and we talk about Mrs. Clinton hitting these two guys in the campaign -- look, the reason why you've got Donald Trump doing so well is a direct reaction to the perceived and actual weakness of the United States under this president and his former secretary of state over all of this time! The wheels are coming off the world!
CARLSON: I want to ask you, Julie, after the Paris attacks, we brought the big guns and sent in James Taylor to play guitar. Are we going to do that again?
ROGINSKY: I'd love to see James Taylor play guitar. I'm all for it.
CARLSON: Julie, Monica, thank you for joining us. Great to see you.
Coming up next, Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and Leif Babin are here to preview their "War Stories" special airing tomorrow night at 10:00. It's about fighting ISIS. You're not going to want to miss it. Plus, we'll also get their take on the disturbing new report from the Associated Press that ISIS has trained 400 fighters and sent them to Europe to release, quote, "a wave of bloodshed." That and more news as the "Hannity" program continues. Stay with us.
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MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This is a Fox News alert. I'm Mike Tobin live in Brussels where we are following increased police activity and new anti-terror raids. Six arrests made this evening here in Brussels connected to the attacks on Tuesday. Three locations, one in central Brussels, one in the neighborhood called Yeta (ph), one in the Schaerbeek neighborhood that is very near what is now called the bomb factory where three identified bombers operated, where police recovered 33 pounds of explosives, detonators, and shrapnel. It's also very near the metro stations where one of the bombs went off, killing 20. We saw investigators in protective gear leaving with bags of evidence.
In Paris, another raid, this one in a north suburb. Authorities arrested a man described by the interior minister as a high-level operative in the advanced stages of planning an attack. However, the minister says at this stage there is no connection between the Paris raid and the Brussels attacks.
We are following the developments throughout the evening. Returning now to "Hannity" already in progress.
CARLSON: Welcome back to "Hannity." A pretty shocking new report from the Associated Press reveals that, quote, "The Islamic State group has trained at least 400 fighters to target Europe in deadly waves of attacks, deploying interlocking terror cells like the ones that struck Brussels and Paris, with orders to choose the time, the place, and the method for maximum chaos," end quote.
Earlier today ISIS reportedly released a new video celebrating the attacks in Belgium. Meanwhile, according to a new CBS News report authorities are worried that increased law enforcement activity throughout that whole region could accelerate future attacks, shaking the bee's nest.
What can the U.S. do and what can the world to do to combat this growing threat from ISIS? A special edition of "War Stories" will tackle that very question. It is going to air tomorrow night at 10:00. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight on "War Stories," ISIS, ruthless in expanding their so-called Islamic state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS is hot wiring the apocalypse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Kurdish Peshmurga, fierce fighters standing against ISIS.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Peshmerga are an incredible fighting force. Our efforts have been anemic so far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is propaganda calls for attacks in Europe and in America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The threat is growing in terms of scale and scope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can ISIS be stopped?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can be defeated, will be defeated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's next on "War Stories."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Joining us now, the hosts of "War Stories, Fighting ISIS" Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and the author of "Extreme Ownership, How Navy SEALs Lead and Win," Leif Babin. Great to see you both. Lieutenant colonel, to you first. You were up in northern Iraq. How is the Kurdish resistance, the Peshmerga, fairing against ISIS on the ground?
LT. COL. OLIVER NORTH, HOST, "WAR STORIES": Well, it's the only military organization that has consistently beaten it since August of 2014 when they charged in out of Syria into Iraq. And in every engagement they have defeated ISIS. Amazingly enough, it's the only organization in Iraq that receives absolutely nothing directly from the United States. We have to badger the Baghdad government to give them even bullets, much less making sure that they get paid. Remarkably enough, Tucker, the Peshmerga officers almost to a man have been educated in the west. They speak English better than I do. And the reality of it is they come back to fight for their country. They are fighting for a homeland that they don't have yet. The bottom line of it is, they're tough, they're hard, and they fight, and they win.
CARLSON: And 400 fighters in Europe, that's the assessment of the Associated Press quoting intelligence sources. It seems to me that's probably too many for any intelligence service in any of the European countries to keep track of, isn't it, 400?
NORTH: Well, not really. I mean, 400 is not certainly going to be the end of the world for anybody in Europe. The bottom line of it is these guys are probably very well-trained in terms of making the kinds of bombs we just saw go off in Brussels. They're probably very well-trained in making sure they can take that information they've got and pass it on to others.
Building bombs out of TATP, which is -- it's triacetone -- it's peroxide is the name for it. It is a very complicated process to make. Anybody who's seen "Breaking Bad" knows what it's like to cook meth. It's the same thing for this stuff. And so they have got to have a place where they can do it.
And what we've unfortunately done is we've relied for so long on signals intelligence that no longer works because of encryption, like we're seeing in the debate between Apple and the FBI, and the throwaway phones they're using. It means we're going to have to find a way to get better intelligence, and that means human intelligence, and they're not very good on that. Ray Kelly was in the NYPD, but those guys in Europe aren't.
CARLSON: To what extend are we relying on European intelligence services for our understanding of what ISIS is doing?
NORTH: Clearly, in the aftermath of an attack, you get all kinds of information. The problem is, as Leif knows, getting the information down to the guys who need to do it like he did is a very difficult task.
CARLSON: How difficult is it, Leif?
LEIF BABIN, "EXTREME OWNERSHIP" AUTHOR: I think it's very difficult. They're having a hard time penetrating these, you know, these Islamic neighborhoods. And obviously as we saw from the Brussels arrest, you know, of the lone escapee from the Paris attacks that he had -- he had tons of support within those neighborhoods. And so, I mean, he was able to hide for months at a time. One of the most wanted men in Europe --
CARLSON: I'm not sure that the press in the west, though, Leif, is conveying the scale here of the demographic change going on in Europe. There are a million refugees absorbed into western Europe just in the past year, a little more than that. To what extent does that magnify the threat that we're already looking at?
BABIN: I think it magnifies it substantially. When you're talking about 400 people, that's a lot. When you're talking about ISIS-trained folks who have come from Syria or Iraq to attack Europe, but there are thousands of others who are willing to take up arms. You know, folks like Syed Farook in San Bernardino and the Chattanooga attacks, Garland, Texas, these things that we've seen here in America as well. So it's a major problem for us.
And beyond just a military solution we have to attack and destroy ISIS where they are in their so-called caliphate in Iraq and Syria. But we also have to take on this ideology that spawns radical Islam and the terror that they bring.
CARLSON: Colonel North, are you satisfied we have a handle on who's coming into this country and current administration understands the potential magnitude of the threat from ISIS?
NORTH: Not at all. In fact, Tucker, I broadcast the seven rules for success in dealing with terrorist organizations that were drafted back when I was the coordinator for counterterrorism. One of them is, by the way, don't brag about your successes. And, of course, in Brussels, all they did was talk about they've got Salah Abdeslam and he's talking. They told everybody that. And, of course, that did cause events to move a little bit faster than they were perhaps prepared for.
The other part of it, just to go into some of the things that they haven't done, and we haven't don't, hardening things like mass transit to make sure you got plenty of dogs. That surveillance footage that we've shown countless times over the last 48 hours on FOX, it shows the three guys walking through pushing baggage carts. That's what you call video profiling. There should have been somebody who's looking at that saying, oh my goodness, we've got guys with one glove on one hand and a guy we don't recognize, all of them wearing bulky clothing. Get a dog on those guys quickly. Bad as it may seem, you don't want to blow up five cops. Send the dog. They didn't do that. And so what you've got is a very lax attitude toward all those people that have come in.
I've long advocated well before it was said by any of the presidential campaigns, only allow vetted refugees into the United States, because that's what they got a problem with. It's coming from --
CARLSON: Of course.
BABIN: I think we need to be very concerned. When the president says that this is his highest priority and then we're really not taking any action. We got to continue on with our lives as if everything is great and not let the terrorists affect us or they win, I mean, it's -- we're clearly -- actions speak a lot louder than words. And so we talk about in leadership all the time, it's not what you preach, it's what you tolerate. So we can say things like that, ISIS is our top priority and Belgium will prevail, like we heard from Vice President Biden. But they actually have to take action and we need to start destroying ISIS. It starts in their caliphate in Syria and Iraq, and it starts in combatting the ideology that spawned it.
CARLSON: You hire these people to worry about this while you sleep, to take action while you go to work and it doesn't seem like they are. Thank you. Leif, Colonel North, great to see you both. Don't forget, tune in tomorrow night, Friday night, 10:00 p.m., you can watch "War Stories, Fighting ISIS." Absolutely worth seeing. Don't miss it.
Coming up, Sean recently spoke with Bo Dietl and Imam Elahi about the rise of radical Islam and what measures need to be taken to protect the American public from that potential threat. That's up next. Stay with us.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, R-, TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we're talking about is focusing law enforcement and national security resources on areas, on locations where there is a higher incidence of radical Islamic terrorism.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: You said that, and I agree with you, that we should use advanced enhancement interrogation techniques on him.
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Beyond waterboarding, beyond waterboarding. If they would have put him through the grill 10 minutes after they capture him, he probably would have ratted maybe stopped this horrible terrorist attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That was Senator Ted Cruz and Donald Trump urging the U.S. to step up its efforts against the rise of radical Islam. Just last night, Sean discussed these proposed measures with Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi form the Islamic House of Wisdom as well as with former NYPD detective Bo Dietl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANNITY: Welcome from both of you. Mr. Elahi, we're back again, and we've got more Islamic terrorism. And, you know, there is a battle in this country. For example, we know the mastermind Abdeslam that was responsible for the Paris attacks that they apprehended on Friday, this was retaliation what happened in Brussels. My question to you is, would you have a problem if we waterboarded him and used enhanced interrogation against him as a means of extracting information about what other terror cells exist in Brussels and Belgium and all across Europe.
IMAM MOHAMMAD ALI ELAHI, ISLAMIC HOUSE OF WISDOM: First, Sean, let me share my sympathy and prayer with Belgians. These days we are all Belgians. And it deeply hurts my heart to see innocents are dead, and my innocent faith is damaged. My merciful prophet means anyone that hurt a Christian, he has hurt Prophet Mohammed. And my question to you is that the same criminal ISIS and their Saudi supporters are doing the same crimes in also not Brussels but Beirut and Baghdad and Syria. And why is it that we're silent? Why in those cases we are silent? Crime, terrorism is terrorism, hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and people are people.
HANNITY: The worlds "Allahu Akbar" again are used in the name of Allah. People take the Koran and they say it says take no Christians nor Jews for your friends. And that is then used to commit Jihad, holy war, against the infidels, all words in the Koran, right, sir?
ELAHI: They're enemies of Islam. ISIS, Saudi supporters, they are the worst enemies of Islam. This is why they are killing Muslims. They are killing Arabs. They are destroying the mosques. They are destroying the shrines. If they were Muslims why do they do so?
HANNITY: Do you have a problem if we were to extract information from Abdeslam? Do you have a problem waterboarding him to find out if he knows of other terror cells in Belgium, in Europe?
ELAHI: I think we have to go with the constitution. We have to go with our morals. At the same time, at the same time, we cannot promise constitution and breaking it before becoming even president.
HANNITY: That's how we got the information to find bin Laden. It was because KSM, one of three people waterboarded, told us about the currier. The currier led us to bin Laden.
ELAHI: Sean, we can go to the roots of the problem, those Saudi paid preachers who are preaching hate and actually, violence. That is the root. We have to stop it there. We have to stop it there.
HANNITY: All right. All right, isn't it obvious that he knows where other terror cells are?
BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right now there might be Americans that were killed is the brother and sister. So this is an American thing now. I mean, this stands to reason. If this individual that was part of that bombing where those innocent people were blown up, and we have a possibility of waterboarding him, come on, let's stop the nonsense.
I talked to Ray Kelly, a former commissioner this morning. And I said Ray, do me a favor, give some me insights about when you had the undercovers in all the Muslim community, did you ever get really definitive information? He said absolutely, Bo. On two cases, on two possible bombings in New York they got information that substantiated the person that they were looking at. So by saying you're not getting information by having people in these communities --
HANNITY: Let me ask you another question. How do you extract information from people?
DIETL: You have to think outside of the box, OK? You have to use inter investigation techniques. Whatever you have to do, waterboarding and all, you have to let them think you have stuff that you don't have that was being given over to us by other informants. Interrogation is an art.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Coming up, more "Hannity" right after the break. Don't go away.
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CARLSON: Holy smokes, it's over. That is all the time we have left tonight unfortunately. But we've got a quick programming not for you. Be sure to tune in tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. for "War Stories, Fighting ISIS." Again, that's tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. Sean is back on Monday. Thanks a lot for joining us tonight. Have a great night.
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