This is a rush transcript from "Kelly File," March 18, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight. The showdown between Donald Trump and some of his critics getting intense, as protesters make plans to target a rally tomorrow and the Trump team deals with some fallout from some direct threats to them today.
Welcome to THE KELLY FILE, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. We have live pictures tonight out of Utah where Donald Trump is scheduled to be speaking in just moments. Ahead of that states, majority take all Tuesday caucuses. Protesters have been gathering over the last hour or so. And just a moment ago, we saw this. Protesters beating a Donald Trump pinata. Governor Kasich spent part of his day here, as well while Senator Ted Cruz spent his Friday crisscrossing the neighboring state of Arizona, a winner take all primary there holds the promise of some 58 delegates on Tuesday. On top of the 40 up for grabs in Utah, that makes more than 100 total coming up in the next week. But before all of that, Donald Trump found himself dealing with some disturbing new threats today.
Trace Gallagher live in our Westcoast Newsroom with that report. Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, a handwritten letter with a Boston postmark was delivered to the Manhattan's apartment of Donald Trump's 32-year-old son, Eric. When Eric Trump's wife opened it, white powder fell out. And the note inside reportedly read, quoting here, "If your father does not drop out of the race, the next envelope won't be fake." It was signed with an x. Initial tests indicate the powder does not appear to be hazardous. Still, the FBI, Secret Service, postal service and New York police are all investigating. The entire Trump family has also been given a safety briefing, including how to properly handle mail.
For now, Secret Service protection only extends to Donald Trump, but security experts believe the visibility of Trump's children on the campaign trail has likely turned them into targets. There is no evidence the letter with the white powder is at all connected to the hacking of Donald Trump's personal files but the hacktivist group anonymous, which has now posted some of Trump's personal information online, including his Social Security number, address and phone numbers. Though some of the info appears to be outdated, anonymous also released another YouTube video calling on people to stop Donald Trump's quote, "Fourth Reich." Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is an enemy of the Constitution. The natural rights that enshrines. His rallies are filled with brazen hatred, racism and violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: This marks the third anonymous video targeting Trump. The first was in December, following Trump's comments about Muslims in the U.S. The other came earlier this month asking other hackers to go after Trump's websites, to dismantle his campaign, and sabotage his brand. The Trump campaign says, it's leaving this up to police -- Megyn.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Trace, thank you.
Well, with protesters now gathering outside of Trump's even in Salt Lake City, and set to target Trump's rally tomorrow in Arizona on top of possibly a Monday speech in Washington, D.C., what can we expect at these events? The folks at Showtime took that question to a Trump rally for this
Sunday's Showtime episode of "The Circus: A Running Documentary of the 2016 Race." Watch what happens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you've got to hold up your sign as high as you can and start shouting Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. And drown them out. That's the way we do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a one-man party. He single handedly took out the establishment Republicans and he's single handedly taking on the Democratic establishment. I mean, really?
(CROWD CHANTING TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP, TRUMP!)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't care about race. I just believe in the love, and I see Trump as love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Jose Antonio Vargas, he's an immigration activist, a film maker and the founder of the group EmergingUS.com. Along with Attorney David Wohl who is a Trump supporter. Great to see you both.
DAVID WOHL, ATTORNEY: Hi, Megyn.
KELLY: Jose, your thoughts now on what we're likely to see as we go forward at these Trump events, because we're already getting wind that the folks who oppose Donald Trump are getting organized and they are determined to make themselves heard.
JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, IMMIGRATION ACTIVIST: Well, look, I mean, if Donald Trump is using free speech to promote racism, sexism, violence, right? In the rhetoric that he's been using for months in the campaign trail, a lot of these organizers are exercising their free speech and their right to assemble and organize.
VARGAS: That's what they're doing.
KELLY: So, let me ask you this, absolutely, totally, you don't like speech, that's the better -- First Amendment, answer to speech you don't like is not less speech, it's more speech. So what do you make of the protests we saw in Chicago where they shut down the speech? Donald Trump could not speak. Those who wanted to hear him could not hear him.
VARGAS: All I know is that given what has happened and given what Donald Trump has been saying for months now. I mean, Megyn, you've been the target of this, right? Of this, like, what does Donald Trump expect, that he's just going to say all these things and people are not going to react?
KELLY: Well, reaction is one thing, but shutting down a speaker is another.
VARGAS: But for them to show up -- well, I mean, you've seen footage of Donald Trump's supporters pushing people out, right? Black people, talking about get that Mexican out of there. I mean, that kind of language and the actions, right, at these rallies. And that's why -- I mean, I've got to say by the way, from many immigrant rights people, you know, Arizona is like the Alabama of the 21st Century. And Joe Arpaio is apparently going to be there, I mean, what? The Bull Connor? And I mean, Donald Trump is running a George Wallace campaign. I mean, that's what he's doing.
KELLY: David, in some cases folks at the Trump rallies absolutely have been disrupters and have been disrespectful and have been giving the finger and have been yelling obscenities at Trump supporters who are just there to listen to a presidential candidate. In other instances, they have been peaceful protesters who have been manhandled and we've seen that on tape.
VARGAS: Exactly. And we've seen that. We've seen the footage of that --
KELLY: That's for David.
KELLY: So, you understand Jose's point?
WOHL: Well, I do. And Megyn, he's in Arizona now and so the Hispanic issue is a big one and I get that. You know, I've got a good friend, Hispanic lawyer, outstanding lawyer, two of his family members are unemployed. Jobs are the big thing with him. And he's looking through, seeing through the invective and the rhetoric and -- some of it was bad, there is no question about that. But his family members want jobs and he loves the idea. No other candidate is talking about this. Preventing the exportation of jobs to Mexico, to China, making the prohibitive tariffs so they will come back instead of producing all the goods over there. His family wants jobs, Mexicans, Hispanics, to some of the hardest working people on the planet. They hate social welfare.
WOHL: And he really loves Trump and I'm telling you, Megyn, the support is much bigger than you might think. Forty five percent of Hispanics in the primary of Nevada supported Donald Trump. Going back to 2004, 44 percent of Hispanics --
KELLY: Okay. But let's not mislead the audience because that was about 100 people. It was about 100 people.
WOHL: There's a whole sample, though.
KELLY: But the thing is, Jose, the latest Gallup poll shows that 77 percent of Hispanics have a negative opinion of Donald Trump.
VARGAS: Eight out of ten.
KELLY: But speak to David's message which is, okay, so maybe they have a negative opinion because they heard the comments about Hispanics being rapists and murderers and some of these he said are very nice people when he announces candidacy. However, I heard people say, yes, I know what he was trying to do there. I haven't heard him say a bunch of racist or anti-immigrant or anti-Hispanic things other than he wants to shore up the border and have a country and I think he's a job creator.
VARGAS: Well, I mean, again, given all of Donald Trump's business history, right? I mean, his ties were made in China that he's selling at Macy's. Right? But back to your point though, Megyn. I absolutely hear -- I mean, actually at Emerging Us, right, which is this new digital platform that we're launching. There's absolutely a lot of people who feel very insecure about the job market out there. I totally understand that. But for Donald Trump to go out there and paint a broad brush of who these people are, Mexicans, right? Muslims, what he has said. I mean, so many Black people have gotten kicked out of his rallies. I mean, all of this, I mean --
WOHL: But he doesn't -- you know what? He's employed -- he's employed thousands of Hispanics. And when you talk about the wall, Hispanic-Americans are Americans first and they also want the protection the wall would provide from people coming over legally and taking --
KELLY: All right. I've got to go, but I have to ask this question quickly. I have to ask this question quickly.
WOHL: bombing, you know, innocent Americans.
KELLY: Jose, you are here in the country illegally. You've been very public about that.
VARGAS: And I'm not from Mexico.
KELLY: Do you worry about your friends who are here illegally who you also know? Do you worry about what is going to happen to you under a Trump presidency?
VARGAS: Well, you know, do I worry? My grandmother worries. Absolutely she does. I have to say it by the way, the fastest growing undocumented population in America are Asians, not Latinos.
VARGAS: I mean, the conversation about this issue has been so, not only toxic, but so much of it is inaccurate.
VARGAS: Right? And what I worry is the level of --
KELLY: We're going to continue this another time.
WOHL: Jose is obviously a brilliant guy. He needs to come and see me. If it's an immigration issue, Jose --
KELLY: Are you trying to recruit client right now? David, this is a political debate. This isn't legal segment.
WOHL: He's a smart guy. He should stay.
KELLY: It's great to see you both. That was funny.
WOHL: All right. Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: We are also talking with Reince Priebus tonight and we will ask the RNC Chair about reports that the rules are changing as a contested convention looks more likely.
Plus, as we watch these protesters outside of this Trump event in Utah, we track down one of the activists who help shut down the Trump speech in Chicago last week. Up next, we'll hear from two of those protesters angry with Donald Trump along with Trump supporter Herman Cain who will weigh in as well on free speech and the 2016 campaign.
ANNOUNCER: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Well, breaking tonight, just one week after the chaos in Chicago, and we are seeing a much smaller group of protesters at Donald Trump's event as he gets ready to address supporters in Salt Lake City, Utah tonight ahead of that state's Tuesday caucuses. Remember, last week at this hour, protesters succeeded in forcing Trump to actually shut down his event out of fears for his supporter's safety and stifling free speech in the process.
Joining me now, Jamal Green, who is a community activist and one of the leaders of last week's Chicago protests, along with Trahern Crews, who is an organizer for Black Lives Matter in St. Paul, Minnesota and Herman Cain who is a Fox News contributor. Former presidential candidate and author of "The Right Problems: What the President, Congress, and Every Candidate Should Be Working On."
Great to see you all.
HERMAN CAIN, HOST, "THE HERMAN CAIN SHOW": Thank you.
KELLY: Mr. Cain, it's a pleasure to have you back on the program. It's been too long since I've seen you.
CAIN: Thank you. I'm enjoying it. Thank you very much.
KELLY: All right. Let me start with you, Jamal. Because you were one of the leaders of the protest in Chicago. You described it as a win when it got shut down. Why? You just heard the discussion on our first segment about how, is it really a win when you shut down somebody else's First Amendment rights?
JAMAL GREEN, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: Well, you know what? We didn't shut down his First Amendment rights. This man chose to not come and express his First Amendment right. He had every right to. He talked to law enforcement. Even our intern superintendent said that they informed him that they had enough security and enough --
KELLY: But why did you do it?
GREEN: -- police to get him in and out of the building.
KELLY: Why did you feel it was important to show up there and do what you did because you were a couple of hundred people?
GREEN: Well, you know what? We are tired of seeing him discriminate against people that are Hispanic, Blacks, he is talking bad about women. So we were going there to not try to shut down his freedom of speech, but to actually tell him listen, this is not the type of character of a man that is supposed to be running for president.
KELLY: What specifically has he done with respect to Blacks and immigrants that you object to?
GREEN: Well, you know what? He made comments when he was -- when he first announced he was running for president saying that Hispanics are bringing in rapists and, you know, killers and drug dealers. That is what we did not like. You know, we did not like people that is going to say oh, women are -- call women fat slobs. He even called you a bimbo on twitter last year. You know, this is a man that disrespects everyone. He disrespects presidential candidates. He called Marco Rubio "Little Marco," Ted Cruz, "lying Ted." He called Senator Sanders a liar. And you know, he just -- the type of character he is just -- is not great. It's not great and we're not staying for it in Chicago.
KELLY: Herman Cain, your thoughts on that point and then we'll get to the propriety of shutting down a rally. But your thoughts on Jamal's last point there.
CAIN: Jamal and Mr. Vargas, your previous guest, are part of the political noise machine. They pick on the sound bites that some people are trying to project as the perception of Donald Trump. And it's totally inaccurate and unfair. So he's going off on a statement here, an isolated statement here, and when he says he offended all Mexicans or illegals, no, he said the bad people. He is not a racist, and in case Mr. Jamal and Mr. Vargas haven't looked up the definition, go look up the definition. Donald Trump does not satisfy the definition of a racist or any of these other things that they're putting out there. They are in denial that Donald Trump is someone who will be forceful in doing the things that are right for all Americans. Free speech is not a license for them to conduct the disruption that they are basically perpetuating on some of these events. There's a big difference.
KELLY: Trahern, your thoughts on what Herman Cain just said? That, you know, he made a comment and that, you know, the events have been isolated and in his view, Donald Trump is no racist.
TRAHERN CREWS, ORGANIZER, BLACK LIVES MATTER, ST. PAUL: I disagree with Mr. Cain respectfully. Also, I'm from the organization Black St. Paul and in St. Paul, in Minnesota, the City Council almost voted to ban Donald Trump from coming to the city because of some of the things he has been saying. But I disagree. I'm not going to say whether Donald Trump is racist or not, but he's saying racist things. So, when he says things like --
KELLY: What specifically?
CREWS: -- Let's make America white again, that sounds like a racist statement --
KELLY: When did he say that?
CAIN: He didn't say that. He didn't say that.
KELLY: He didn't say, let's make America white again. No, he didn't! He did not say that.
CAIN: I never heard that statement, Megyn.
KELLY: No, I've never heard that either. That sounds like maybe something a supporter or somebody on Twitter. But Donald Trump has never said that. That would have been big news.
CAIN: Megyn --
KELLY: That's part of the problem Herman Cain is that --
CREWS: He was endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan.
KELLY: Even if they did endorse, he can't help who endorses him. I mean, a lot of freaks out there wind up endorsing you. And that was like, what are you going to do about? He did eventually disavow the KKK, he stumbled on it for a day or two before --
CAIN: Megyn, can I say something real quick?
CAIN: What he is saying is exactly what they use to try to get people incited to believe that he's a racist.
CAIN: Donald Trump didn't say that. Donald Trump is not endorsing the KKK. Donald Trump has not said a lot of the things that the political noise machine, like your guests and the previous guest are saying about Donald Trump.
CREWS: You know what --
CAIN: The problem I have is misrepresenting what the man says for their objectives. And their objective is destruction and intimidation.
KELLY: What about that, Trahern. I mean, if you misrepresent the record, it undermines your whole argument.
CAIN: Exactly. And they are all about --
KELLY: That's for Trahern. That's for Trahern. Go ahead.
CAIN: They are all about intimidation --
KELLY: Let me just stand you by, Herman. I'm sorry. I want to give Trahern the floor. Go ahead, Trahern.
CREWS: What does the Ku Klux Klan see in Donald Trump where they say we'll put our endorsement behind you? What does David Duke see in Donald Trump that makes them want to endorse him?
CAIN: May I answer that?
KELLY: Go ahead.
CAIN: Maybe they see jobs. Maybe they see a strong economy. Maybe they see a strong military. As long as Donald Trump didn't endorse them and that principles, that's not a big sin. You are using that to incite Black people, Hispanic people and non-White people to portray him as a racist. That's what you're doing. You are not respecting this free speech.
KELLY: I want to ask you this, Trahern. Trahern, I know that you are the person who organized that one rally, we saw, that protest against police, where the people started chanting "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon." And you that's going to have many people out there tonight saying, why should we listen to this guy on matters of race and decorum? I want to give you the chance to answer.
CREWS: Well, I didn't say fry anybody like bacon. I didn't start that chant. But I understood, you know, what was going on in that moment that the police and the protesters were having a playful moment at that time. So, no.
CREWS: We were never advocating to do harm to the police. And right now, I wouldn't be advocating doing harm to Donald Trump or anybody in his family. So that's the thing. But my thing is, the Ku Klux Klan and David Duke see something in Donald Trump --
KELLY: I understand. You made that point.
CREWS: -- that makes them want to support him.
KELLY: I don't know how playful the police officers thought that moment was. I think the officers have a different idea of a good time if he wants to play. But great to see all of you. Thank you very much for being here.
CAIN: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, these protesters are starting to march now in Salt Lake City, Utah, and they're getting a little louder and we are staying on this story as we await remarks from Mr. Trump. We'll go live to our reporter who is indeed this thing right after the break.
Plus, Howie Kurtz and Jorge Ramos on 2016 and the media when we come back.
KELLY: Breaking tonight. Protests getting louder in Salt Lake City, Utah, ahead of this Trump event there. The candidate was supposed to start speaking at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. We've been watching the crowds grow outside of this event and they are getting larger by the minute over the last hour.
Our own Peter Doocy is live in the middle of this. Do we have Peter? Peter, what can you tell us?
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): Megyn, I can tell you that (INAUDIBLE) we're really (INAUDIBLE) because Trump hasn't even arrived yet, but at one point, just about ten minutes ago, several hundred anti-Trump protesters, who do seem to be mostly Bernie Sanders supporters based on the signs and the arguments that they've been making, showed up. And when that happened, all these anti-Trump protesters were in the middle of the street. And then the line of people that could not get into this Trump event because the venue was so small, all spilled into the streets.
And some people seem to be having a good sense of humor about this. But I've got to tell you, things are pretty combustible. It's really hard to get around in this crowd. But lots of signs being ripped out, lot of words that you can't say on TV. And you can just tell from the way that people are getting in each other's faces, again, it's not a big group against a big group. But there are pockets that seem like really they are just teetering on the edge of something that could be very unpleasant like last Friday -- Megyn.
KELLY: Peter, how do we know that these are supporters of Mr. Sanders -- Senator Sanders?
DOOCY: We were over there as they were gathering at a building just down the street, and they were saying that they like Bernie Sanders a lot better. The signs that you can't see now that they had on the other side of the street were for Bernie Sanders. So I think you might have had one at the beginning of your show before things just filled in, in the street. And again, now it's hard to tell which side the Trump people are and which side the Sanders people are until they really start gutted each other.
DOOCY: And so this big crowd is new. But as you know, big crowds make law enforcement and also organizers a little antsy -- Megyn.
KELLY: Yes, we're not seeing a lot of security there. Peter Doocy, thank you. Keep us updated.
We apologize for the delay there on Peter's. We have a little seven-second delay when we watch this event -- that's why you would saw him not speaking when you could hear him speaking.
Plus, as we continue to watch these protests, new analysis of the presidential campaign finds that Donald Trump is the big winner, at least when it comes to media coverage. According to a new report, and a firm that tracks media coverage, Trump has earned close to $2 billion worth of free media attention. Two billion. That's about twice the amount of the most expensive presidential campaigns in history. And when you look at his numbers compared to the other candidates, well, quite frankly there is no comparison.
Joining us now, Howie Kurtz, host of "MediaBuzz" right here on Fox News. And Jorge Ramos, a news anchor at Univision and author of the new book, "Take a Stand: Lessons From Rebels." We begin with Jorge.
Great to see you again, sir. Thank you for being here. And so this media coverage is an interesting piece of the Trump story, because every election night, we sit there and someone invariably says, and he did it without spending almost anything on ads against his opponents. But the truth is, he doesn't have to.
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION ANCHOR: Well, I have to say that he has defined a presidential race that he is news, what he says makes news. He has been winning polls and elections. So, I don't object to the attention. But I object is how reporters are covering Donald Trump. I think he has to be challenged much more.
Some of the interviews are, honestly really embarrassing. I mean, they give him a free pass. He has to be challenged on what he said about Mexican immigrants, what he said about Muslims, what he said about women, what he said about women is offensive and sexist. What he said about Mexican immigrants, simply wrong and false.
And is he going to ban 1.5 billion people from the United States simply because of their religion? So, I do understand why he's getting all the attention. But the way we are covering Donald Trump is not the right way. He was dangerous. He was promoting hatred. Megyn, most of all, he's doing exactly the same thing right now.
MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: So, two points on that. Number one, he has been challenged on all of those things that you mentioned. So, that has happened. But the other thing is, when raising a challenge along the lines that you just suggested, is it really the reporter's job to say this is hateful? This is sexist? This is racist? Or is it the reporter's job to say these are the facts, this is what you said and as we say here at Fox, we report, you decide, viewers.
RAMOS: Absolutely. I think we have to confront him with all the things he has said. But as reporters, I think our most important and social responsibility is to confront those who are in power or those who are seeking power.
So, when it comes to discrimination, racism, corruption, public life, and dictatorships for human rights I think we have to take a stand. And I haven't seen that much when it comes to interviews or even in press conferences. I think Donald Trump has been disrespectful with many reporters. He has banned some reporters from covering the press conferences.
And unless we do that, and that is our responsibility, I don't know who is going to do it. That's precisely our job, to ask tough questions. And honestly, Megyn, I don't think he's been getting the tough questions. And when everybody says asking him about process in polls, but we have to ask him about content, about racism and discrimination. And that hasn't been done enough.
KELLY: A policy. But the question I have for you is, to what extent is that because Trump intimidates many in the media and others simply want access? They -- he rates. You know, he's not to be all end all. I'll tell you that the Fox News debate that didn't have Donald Trump got 12.5 million viewers.
The ABC News debate that preceded that got 13 million viewers. The CNN debate that followed it all with Trump had 13 million. So, it's a very small margin there. But many shows they are going to puff if they put them on. I would submit to you on the second show -- second highest rated show in all the cable news and I haven't had Trump on in seven months. They can be done without him, too. But many reporters feel they hip-hop a number and they don't want to pick him off, Jorge.
RAMOS: That's true. And part of it has to do with the idea that neutrality is what we have to do, just to be completely balance all the time. But when we are being faced with sexist remarks, racist remarks, I think it has to be a completely different ball game.
And part of it of course has to do with access. Now, with Donald Trump, it's the first time in my 30 years since I reported that I've been ejected from a press conference. The only other times in which have bodyguard have prevented me from asking a question was with Fidel Castro. His bodyguard pushed me aside when I asking to him about lack of democracy in Cuba.
So, Donald Trump right now we're doing the exactly the same thing...
KELLY: But then he let you back in.
RAMOS: ... dictators of strong men in Latin America. Exactly. Look, I can't trust Donald Trump with my cell phone number. He would publish it. And now he's asking us to trust him with the country. And our job as reporters is simply to ask the questions. And he hasn't been answering the questions and we got to keep on pushing him on that.
KELLY: With what we've seen, so, Univision has been banned from some of his events, Fusion has been banned, National Review has been banned.
RAMOS: Many, many of them. I haven't been able to talk to them.
KELLY: The Des Moines Register, Politico's reporter just got banned because they did a negative article about his campaign manager. We saw the Des Moines Register's hard news reporter banned from Trump's events because he didn't like what their editorial page was saying.
So, and then we saw this example, Jorge. I ask you about this because this is something that's been bothering a lot of people in the press for a while. At every Trump event, we have a pool photographer. All the networks chip in and we have one cameraman who goes out there and stands in the middle of the crowd and that shoots the candidate.
And that's they do that at the Cruz events, too. These guys gets paid to just shoot the candidate. If anything news where it happens to the candidates you have to have a shot of it. That's how news works. And then he gets told, just keep the camera on the candidate. This guy probably makes $60,000 a year. This is not somebody who makes $10 billion as Trump claims he does. And this is what he does to them repeatedly. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at the guy in the middle. Look at the guy in the middle. Why aren't you turning that camera? Why aren't you turning the camera?
Terrible. It's so terrible. Look at him. He doesn't turn the camera. He doesn't turn the camera. It's disgusting. I'll tell you it's disgusting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: He tries to shame these guys. These are regular guys. He tries to shame them. And the question is, what does this portend for a president Trump when it comes to the media in your view?
RAMOS: I think he's showing a lot of disrespect to reporters. And I think it is very dangerous. He was dangerous nine months ago and he's dangerous right now. But it is very dangerous when a potential candidate attacks a group or attack reporters.
I still remember when he told me, go back to Univision. Those are cold words. And just a few seconds later, one of his supporters outside the press room, told me, get out of my country. That's precisely the kind of hatred that he's been promoting and it is contagious. That's exactly the same kind of treatment that he's been giving to many reporters.
So, it is not only how we are treating Donald Trump that I think is wrong and has to change. We have to be much more confrontational with him. But it's also the way he's been treating reporters. And if we allow that, I don't think we're doing our job, Megyn.
KELLY: And others then see how certain reporters get treated and they don't want the same for themselves. And then they make their own choices. Jorge, it's great to see you.
RAMOS: Thank you.
KELLY: While we were showing you that interview with Jorge Ramos, things have ramped up even further outside to this Trump event. Take a look at the pictures we just got in.
I apologize. You can see tempers running high. We ran into this last Friday, too. So, you know, bad language as you can say.
Howard Kurtz is the host of "MediaBuzz". He's right -- he's with me now to comment on this. You know, Howie, we've been watching this happen last week and this. You know, the anger is just so high in this country right now, and Trump is both tapping into that anger and also, as we heard from some of our guests tonight, causing some in response.
HOWARD KURTZ, THE MEDIA BUZZ SHOW HOST: Well, I mean, Trump's whole candidacy has been fueled on the anger and resentment of many of the Republicans who are voting for him. And by the way, it's ridiculous to say he hasn't had hundreds of tough interviews just responding briefly to Jorge Ramos.
But as we watch these pictures, it reminds me of what happened in Chicago this time last Friday night when Trump had to shut down that rally. I think to some extent, I have been surprised that he hasn't toned down his language a little bit.
At the same time, I think it's unfair to blame the candidate when organized protesters and that's what happened in Chicago show up with the express purpose of shutting down one shutting down of his events. And I think the media's focus ought to be as much on that as on the candidate's rhetoric.
KELLY: Absolutely. I mean, these guys have a right to speak, they're running for president. They have the right to speak. And people who take all this time that go to listen to him, they have the right to hear him. And it does anyone any good to shut the speech.
Now you can stand outside and you can make your point too, and hold up the bull horn and say what you want. That is-- that is quintessentially American. That is like what we were made to do. But you can't shut down the event. You can't threaten people out of listening.
KURTZ: I am all in favor of peaceful protests, but clearly some people who go to these Donald Trump rallies who hate Donald Trump or see him as a threat, they want to stir up tr6ouble. I mean, this is how they make their political point. And that's not how we do it in this country.
On the other hand, if this continues to happen repeatedly, and this is a real challenge for Donald Trump. He has to figure out, you know, he likes to project this image of strength, he has to figure maybe how to lower the temperature a little bit, while not certainly caving in to the protesters, the people who are the intentional disrupters.
But it may give some people the sense that the country or part of the country is turning against him and this at a time when he should be sort of basking in the fact that he's way ahead in the presidential race.
He wants to unify the Republican Party. Parts of which want to deny him the nomination in Cleveland. This is now a counter narrative that he is a candidate, his real challenge has to figure out how to deal with. But also it's our job to tell both sides and not to just focus on Donald Trump's words, because there are some people there who don't believe in free speech.
KELLY: That's right. You know, I don't know what they're saying.
KELLY: I don't -- they've broken into song. I don't recognize it. Can you hear it, James? They're singing the Bee Gees. No, we're joking. I don't know what they're saying but they're clearly fired up and we're trying to figure out what exactly is their message?
There we saw some Bernie Sanders signs. I want to ask you about Jorge's point on Trump media coverage. Because here we are, you know, he just generates it, things he says, things he does, people he attracts, as we're seeing here. And yet, the media has been complicit to a large part in granting him that $2 billion worth of free media coverage.
I mean, you and I know better than anybody Fox News Sunday anchor Chris Wallace is the only Sunday show anchor who will not allow Trump to do a phone on that program. He has stood firm because it's never been allowed. The Sunday shows don't allow it, except they do for Trump. All of the morning shows, cable and broadcast, let him phone in, and they don't let the other candidates do it. And you tell me, Howie, whether that's fair.
KURTZ: Well, two quick points. One is, there are some Trump detractors who feel like it's the media's job to stop Trump. And is not the role of the press.
KELLY: That's B.S.
KURTZ: It is our role to be aggressive on all of these candidates but to be fair. Now I've been saying for months the endless hours of airtime at the Trump rallies when the other candidates don't get that is unfair to the other candidates. But on the -- and I totally agree, let Trump appear on camera and not just phone in.
KELLY: And what about the wall-to-wall coverage of his campaign rallies where he, there's no protesters, there's no news value other than there is an entertaining speech which is not done for any of the other candidates.
KURTZ: Let's face it, cable news does this in large part for ratings. We see particularly a lot of this on MSNBC and CNN. Fox has done it, as well. But when he does the interviews, I think the point here is, he is getting much more air time because he's done hundreds and hundreds of interviews. He subjects himself to journalistic questioning; the other candidates aren't even close.
KELLY: No one is criticizing that. No one is criticizing that.
KELLY: You want to show up and actually sit the studio and subject yourself, absolutely that's great. Good for him. That's interesting and people want to pop him on the screen. But the constant phoners and the wall-to-wall broadcasting of his campaign events which we saw early on was a danger, that is a danger, because you meander off into unfair territory when you do that for one but you don't do it for the others. It isn't fair to the process or to the viewers? I'll give you the final word.
KURTZ: It's a bending of the rules that we should collectively stop doing. Donald -- when I sit down with Donald Trump, it's face to face. The phoners, just -- isn't a good way to conduct business unless it is breaking news. And it is plainly hurting the media scales in his favor.
KELLY: That's right. And it's a pain in the butt for you. You have to travel across the country, you've got to go and sit down. You always want to do it. It's easier to do a phoner. But you're supposed to be professional.
KURTZ: That's my job.
KELLY: You know what I'm saying?
KELLY: All right, Howie, good to see you. Peter Doocy in the midst of all this, he's live on the phone right with us now in Salt Lake City, Utah. Peter, what's happening?
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, there is absolutely no daylight right now, but we see Trump supporters and these Trump protesters. The people who are protesting Trump right now, they're chanting "hey, hey, ho, ho, Trump has to go." But just in the last few minutes they have also chanted for Black Lives Matter and they also added to that with a lot of things that they've said and that they have written on sign that cannot be repeated on television.
Now, really surprising about the way that this crowd has just mixed in with the Trump haters and the Trump lovers. That for about half an hour before 7 o'clock when Trump was supposed to get here, the police put the Bernie people on one side and the Trump people on the other. And the police were in the middle of the street. But we do not see very many police for this kind of crowd.
Actually, there are some officers right now just to the right of this shot. They're not trying to break up the crowd or disburse the crowd. But they are the first officers and actually, Megyn, for the first time all day, I do see officers who have come with a shield on them. This is all going on. It varies in intensity.
At times it's kind of frightening to be standing right in between to some of the pairs of people who are going at it. But keep in mind, this could go on for a long time, because Donald Trump is still not here. He's 45 minutes behind schedule.
So, this is still going on outside. And as you know, these things usually don't break up until a candidate or whoever is being protested shows up and everybody knows that they're not going to have their choices heard anymore. All right. That is to still watch.
KELLY: But just to ask you, it looks like, so what we're seeing on camera is peaceful protesters. They're angry in some pockets.
KELLY: They have profanity written on their signs and are using some. But what I'm seeing here, you tell me if I'm wrong these are peaceful protestors so far.
DOOCY: On both sides, yes, that's right. And there was -- the pockets of people I've seen on each side, it looked like there are some folks who came here with some provocative intentions. There are some people who came here looking for trouble.
But you have not seen anybody who get punch in the face. I've have not seen any people brought into the ground. I've seen some signs thrown to the ground and stomped on, but so far nothing -- by the way, the real surprise at this point is just that -- it's not something that you see very often at these rallies, the haters and the lovers of Donald Trump are right on top of each other, and he's not even here yet.
So, we don't really know what's going to happen. And I'm following right behind a camera shot that you're looking at. There are some police here. We can't see exactly where they're going or why they came in. That could mean although the candidate is almost here.
KELLY: Peter, I realize that it's difficult because we're doing a phoner and you're not on camera. But can you try to interview some of these folks, what are -- you know, on either side it would be interesting to hear what brought them out tonight what they're doing there and how they're feeling about what's happening?
DOOCY: I can grab somebody for sure. Excuse me, sir, what's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Max.
DOOCY: Max, all right. This is a live television interview. What brought you out today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love Trump. I want to audit the Federal Reserve and I want to release the 28 pages of 9/11 commission report of course. That's why I'm here
DOOCY: And there are a lot of chants going around tonight. Have you been yelling? What's your -- what's point that you're trying to make to the other side?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop drinking the fluoride.
DOOCY: All right. And what about you sir, what's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I buy the (Inaudible).
DOOCY: What brought you out here today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course Trump make America great again.
DOOCY: All right. So, this is on the backside, Megyn. I am trying and please, know that I'm just holding up an iPhone ear bud to some of these people so I hope the audio is OK. I'm trying to make my way over towards some of the standard folks over here but I can't get over there. Excuse me, I'm live on television right now. What is your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah.
DOOCY: And Sarah, what brought you out today's events tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get Trump out of here. He's scary. He's a racist. He's a xenophobic and we don't need people like that in power.
DOOCY: And how long are you going to state here? Do you think -- what is your plan for tonight at this protest?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to stay here as long as I have to. As long as there are people here supporting that man, I will be here protesting him.
DOOCY: And what about you, sir? What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Wartle (ph).
DOOCY: And John, what brought you out here today? All right. Please, put the language. This is a live interview. You don't want to talk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just don't want to see a racist run our country.
DOOCY: OK. What about you, sir? This is a live interview. This is live on air. What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lucas.
DOOCY: Lucas, what brought you out here? You're whole time, what brought you out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. Donald Trump is a bitch.
DOOCY: All right. Thank you, thank you. All right. So, Megyn, you're getting a little bit of flavor from both sides there in the middle of the crowd. People are very upset. But so far, no violence as more and more police officers do come into this crowd that has gotten really, really big. There are definitely several thousand people here now.
KELLY: Peaceful protests, that's what we're all about. If it gets violent, it will get shut down. People has right to hear him, a different altogether.
Just one correction, I think it's stop -- it's stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
KELLY: Not fluoride. The fluoride is actually can be beneficial in small doses on certain situations. I want to get to one of our guest who's been waiting here, that's former Massachusetts Senator Scott brown, who is a Trump supporter, along with national editor -- National Review editor, Rich Lowry. Both are Fox News contributors and with me now. Guys, thank you very much for being here. Rich, let me start with you on your reaction to what we're seeing.
RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR: Well, so long as these protesters aren't to disrupt or shut down the event, so long as they're not inside their heckling Trump when he gets up on the stage, I think it's fine to have pro-Trump people and anti-Trump people jawboning it at one another peacefully, that's fine. And that's what we do as Americans.
But one thing I was struck by, when Peter to one of Trump's supporters and said why are you here? And he said, to make America great again. Which just goes to how priceless and powerful Donald Trump's branding has been. For any political candidate to go to his supporters randomly on the street, I imagine if Peter asked 10 Trump supporters why they are there, 8 of them would say that.
And if you went to a Marco Rubio supporter randomly in the street, he would say, well, I'm here to, you know, meet the challenges of the new American century that way or the Rubio. Or if you to a Cruz supporter, I'm here to unite courageous conservatives. No. It just goes to how powerful Trump's message has been.
LOWRY: And how he's obviously energized people both pro and con.
KELLY: Senator Brown, the other thing we've heard from one of those protestors on the other side was they think, they said he's scary. They think he's a racist, they think he's xenophobic. That's what she said. And the other guy said I don't want to see a racist run our country.
What do you think about this perception? I mean, they I don't -- I would bet a lot of Senator Sanders supporters do not like Ted Cruz and they probably don't think much of John Kasich, but they don't show up like this. Why do you think this happening to Trump?
SCOTT BROWN, FORMER MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR: Well, they don't show up because they're not in the lead. When you have somebody in the lead and so dramatically in the lead not only with delegates but popular vote in, as a populist bringing out people, different people that haven't voted maybe in years or ever voted.
You have democrats who are those Reagan democrats coming over a broader base. I mean, you had Herman Cain on earlier. He nailed that he's not a racist. I mean, you may not agree with him on the way he presents things and the way he talks, but he's talking about things that people talk about in their living rooms and in their dining rooms, talking about the border, talking about immigration, talking about our debt and our deficit and economy.
Those are the things that he's talking about. He may not say it as smoothly as a lot of these politicians that have been doing it their whole lives, remember, he's been doing it, Megyn, what, eight months. Yes, he's got a lot to learn but, you know he's doing a good darn job against some seasoned people.
KELLY: You know, Rich, we also heard from some women and we've seen women at some of these rallies pointing out they're not too happy with his comments on women. And he is -- there's a poll this week that showed he has very poor numbers when it comes to women especially when you brought in to the general electorate.
Those are statements you can pinpoint specifically, and they don't -- it wasn't just sort of a general, OK, I didn't condemn the KKK fast enough. How do you see that working out for him?
LOWRY: Well, part of the trick of getting elected president, if you look at George W. Bush and Barack Obama, is convincing the other side, at least temporarily, not to hate and fear. And that, Trump is not going to able to do that. We've already seen that.
And even if he pivots to the centers that are going talks about, even if he's the most soothing guy for the next seven months if he wins the nomination, all this stuff is already on tape it's on the record.
And there were some doubt going into this general election whether Hillary Clinton could activate the so-called coalition of the ascendant, the Obama coalition based on young people and minorities and whatnot.
There is no doubt that those people will be out in force because Donald Trump is such a motivator for them in a negative way.
KELLY: Senator Brown, what do you make of that and the language on women?
BROWN: Well, first of all, I don't agree with obviously some of his comments with women. I have a house full of women. You know, the women I know, like you, will fight back and they'll tell them how they feel about his comments and the like.
But that also being said, I think he's activating a lot of people, not only will Hillary activate people but Donald Trump and the team that he puts around him, I think will obviously activate a lot of people, too.
Listen, it's an exciting time. And if you look why we're in this situation, I agree whole heartedly, part of the blame is what this president has done, is being one of the greatest dividers in our country's history.
Black versus white, rich/poor, occupy Wall Street, main street/Wall Street, 99 percent and 1 percent. There's so many different cliques and clashes in this country right now. It's no wonder we're in the situation we're at right now.
KELLY: It's some -- it's quite something to see, is it not? I mean, Rich, you tell me.
LOWRY: Yes, it's sad. It's sad.
KELLY: When I see how the people out there demonstrating, I don't know, that's not a bad thing, right? No matter what the cause is, this is quintessentially American. It's when it crosses over. And so far, it seems like the people of Salt Lake City are doing a pretty good job of keeping it -- you know, a little profane, a little dicey maybe, but I don't know, you tell me your reaction on what we're seeing on screen.
LOWRY: Well, if nothing else, people are interested and engaged, there's no doubt about that. And Trump has tapped into something. But a statesman, what a statesman does, like Ronald Reagan, and a lot of people are angry and disgusted in the late 70s, but Ronald Reagan he tapped into that and he made it something better. He made it something constructive.
The cause against Trump, if he's tapping into these passions and it isn't making him better he's not making them constructive. In fact, he's making them even more base, you know, he has encouraged people at his rallies to beat up protesters, to say, you know, good old days we used to send them out on a stretcher.
You can't imagine Ronald Reagan or any serious statesman speaking that way. So, even if it's true, Scott was mentioning earlier has a big lead and delegates there's still major resistance to him in the party because he's not a conservative...
BROWN: And, Megyn...
LOWRY: ... and he doesn't act the way that most people think a president of the United States should act.
KELLY: Go ahead, Senator.
BROWN: And, Megyn, excuse me, not everybody is a conservative, with all due respect to Rich who I have a lot of respect for. Not everybody is a conservative, we're all Americans first. And obviously the country is fired up right now.
And if you think this protest wasn't planned by either moveon.org or Black Lives Matter, or one of the other sides of the Democratic Party then you don't get it. I've been protested. Anybody who is in public service in a big election has been protested.
Not to this extent, but pretty darn similar. This brings back a lot of memories of what happened to me when we were battling. That being said, I have no problem with peaceful but it's clear to me that and I'm not there that this is being instigated by people who have a very clear agenda to do exactly what you're seeing right now, this disruption on the TV and painting a picture that's not a flattering one. So, here we go.
KELLY: Yes. We talked about that at the top of the show, that some of these groups are organizing protests for these campaign events and this may be the first of a lot we see this weekend.
Gentlemen, thank you both. We'll be right back after a quick break.
KELLY: The protest goes on and so does Mr. Trump. He has appeared now in front of a lectern and will give his remarks in Salt Lake City. We're going to go off and have a weekend. We'll see you on Monday. Then vacation on Tuesday. Have a great one. I'm Megyn Kelly.
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