Michelle Fields, Ben Shapiro on resigning from Breitbart; Kelly responds to Trump University question

Insight into the controversy on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," March 14, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight. Less than ten hours to go before the polls open on perhaps the most important day of the presidential campaign to date. And the race is taking an increasingly ugly and chaotic turn.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Over the past week we have witnessed a surge of angry confrontations on the campaign trail.  Many of which have centered in and around rallies for the Republican frontrunner Donald Trump. His events are hardly the only ones that have been disrupted but they are the most high profile and we witnessed more of them today at at least two campaign stops.

But today's disruptions, nothing, compared to what we witnessed in Chicago on Friday night. The situation there so tense the Trump campaign called off its event. The story was documented real-time right here on this show as well as on Showtime's hit series "The Circus." Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are hundreds, maybe even thousands of protesters on hand. Mike, the security does not have a handle on the situation here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight's rally will be postponed until another date.  Thank you very much. And please go in peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is becoming violent. There's pushing and shoving going on inside this arena. It is total chaos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump joins me now live on the phone. Mr. Trump, do you believe that you have done anything to create a tone where this kind of violence would be encouraged?

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't take responsibility, nobody's been hurt in our rallies.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret saying any of those things about punching protesters, sending them out on stretchers?

TRUMP: No, I don't regret it at all. I will say we've had tremendous success with people. You know, popularity that we have in the rallies, themselves, is love. I mean, it's a love fest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to ask you just for clarification, you have no regrets about anything that you have said?

TRUMP: We have had great success, and frankly, I think we did a good job tonight. I think a lot of people are giving us a lot of credit.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Before we begin, I want to say a few words about what happened in Chicago last night.

GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has created a toxic environment.

CLINTON: The encouragement of violence and aggression is not only wrong, but dangerous.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, I-VT., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has got to be loud and clear and tell his supporters that violence at rallies is not what America is about and to end this.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I still at this moment continue to support the Republican nominee, but it's getting harder every day.  

SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, as we campaign, we have protests, but unlike Donald Trump, I don't ask people in the audience to punch them in the face.  

TRUMP: I will call up Carrier the President, cause I have to do it myself, I know it's not --



And to think I had such an easy life. What do I need this for?


KELLY: We're going to have much more from "The Circus Tonight" as we're joined by its co-creator and co-host, Mark McKinnon, who was in Chicago with the Trump camp Friday night. But first back to Mr. Trump who offered his own take on what happened in Chicago suggesting this was very much a coordinated effort.  


TRUMP: We started to notice that all of a sudden almost simultaneous, almost like, you know, a certain time, a lot of protesters showed up and I guess it was a very staged thing with this MoveOn organization which is not a good group of people from what everybody tells me. And we met with the security, we met with law enforcement who did a, I think, terrific job.  They said it would be good not to be doing the speech because you would have had clashes and people could have been hurt or worse. And I think, and we've been given credit for this, hopefully we did the right thing.


KELLY: And remember, all of this comes on the eve of a tight battle for the 367 delegates at stake in five states tomorrow.

Joining me now to discuss it, Barry Bennett, an informal adviser to the Trump campaign. Charles Cooke, a writer for "The National Review" and Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News senior judicial analyst.

Great to see you all. Charles, let me start with you on what we saw this weekend and whether you believe the critics who are pinning any of what we've seen at these Trump rallies on Donald Trump are -- whether they have a valid complaint.

CHARLES COOKE, WRITER, THE NATIONAL REVIEW: Sure they do. I heard Bill O'Reilly earlier talking about where Donald Trump is obviously complicit with Charles Krauthammer. And there are obvious areas. I mean, he's promised to pay the legal fees of people who punch others, who hurt others.  He's failed to condemn those who have committed acts of violence, he refuses to admit that it happened and he harks back to this mythical era in American history in which you can just punch somebody in the face and get away with it. But I think it goes deeper than that. If you look at Donald Trump's campaign, he's built it around this mythical idea, this odd, almost pornographic idea of leadership, and power, and of confrontation.  

KELLY: Strength.  

COOKE: Strength. You know, its strength pushed both ways through Google translate so you end up with this odd conception that doesn't really exist.  He's a weak man's idea of a strong man. He's not Vladimir Putin. He's Roderick Spode from the P.G. Wodehouse novels going on about knees and you know, foreigners and knees and root vegetables because, you know, he's nothing about policy. He doesn't have a platform. And I know it's amusing but I'm quite serious --

KELLY: I'm not sure I'm with you on the root vegetable part.

COOKE: Well, it was rhetoric --

KELLY: I was with you until then.  


COOKE: The point I'm making here is quite serious is that he's tried to build himself up as a strong man and he's done that because he knows nothing about policy. And he knows nothing about politics. Of course it was going to end like this. That's his entire shtick. He is complicit in this. He can't run away from it. He can't change it because this is his campaign.  

KELLY: Barry Bennett, let me ask you because one of the points that Charles make is that rather incredible thing that Trump said on "Meet the Press" this weekend where he was reaffirming that he is having his people looking into paying the legal bills of this man -- this man at one of his rallies who saw a protester giving the finger to some of the protest -- to some of Donald Trump's supporters and the man reacted this way. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold it up high.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you deserved it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every bit of it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he deserved it. The next time we see him, we might have to kill him.


KELLY: You tell me how Trump can offer to pay that man's legal fees and say that he is not -- he is not inviting more acts like that.

BARRY BENNETT, INFORMAL ADVISER TO THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I mean, no one's going to condone what that guy did, I mean, but that guy's almost 80- years-old. He made a big mistake. And, you know, he was in a rally. He's clearly a supporter. It's the only instance I think we can find of a rally supporter hitting somebody which we've seen, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of times now. And if it's going to ruin his life, then, you know, helping him out isn't the worst thing we can do.  

KELLY: You don't see how that might encourage somebody who's maybe not 78- years-old to do the same?

BENNETT: He's already said he doesn't condone it. I mean, there's only one -- that's the only Trump supporter you can find that's actually hit somebody. That is the entire sum of the violence --

KELLY: Well, I don't know about that.  

BENNETT: That's the entire sum of the violence --

KELLY: I don't know about that, Barry. I don't know about that.

BENNETT: Well, I mean, show me another one then.  

KELLY: We've seen quite a bit of violence at these rallies.  

BENNETT: We have. From professional protesters who, you know, 3,000 people show up in Chicago --

KELLY: Well, there was a man who was pushing a black woman down who actually came out and said he really felt ashamed about it after the fact but the mob mentality against the protester led him to do it. That's just one example off the top of my head. But what --

BENNETT: They come for this. This is why the protesters come.

KELLY: I agree that it's true in some cases. I can see it.

BENNETT: They want to be in front of the cameras and pick a fight.  

KELLY: I can see it. But the question is, and I asked you this Judge whether there is a responsibility in your view by our leaders to raise the dialogue, to encourage peaceful behavior and to inspire us to do better?

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: Well, there's a moral responsibility to do that but there's a constitutional obligation and it goes like this. If a speaker encourages violence and there's time for more speech to rebut or negate his before the violence happens, he's not responsible for it. But if a speaker encourages violence and people respond immediately to the -- with the violence that he has --

KELLY: Which wasn't the case here.  

ANDREW: Which doesn't appear to be the case then he's not responsible.  The courts will bend over backwards not to punish speech.

KELLY: What do you make of it, Charles? Because now, you know, Trump's free speech rights were shut down. And it's not appropriate to shut down his right, I mean, that is so un-American and the Supreme Court has made clear but many times the answer to speech you do not like is not less speech, it's more speech, right?

COOKE: Right.  

KELLY: And now he's becoming a bit of a First Amendment martyr.  

COOKE: He's not a First Amendment martyr. He's a Donald Trump martyr.  The only North Star he has is the one that shines light on him. Now, I totally agree with what the judge said. I'm a First Amendment absolutist.  I think that the decision in -- Ohio was a correct for example. I also think that the people who deliberately set out to shut down Donald Trump's rally are reprehensible. You don't do that, you don't try and suppress speech. And they said that's what they were trying to do. But morally he has a responsibility as the man on the state, regardless of what the law says, regardless of what those who were trying to provoke him say, he has a moral responsibility not to incite, not to make it worse and he doesn't do it. He says, well, I have would have hit him in the face or in the olden days he would have gone out in a stretcher. That's inappropriate.  

KELLY: Uh-hm. Judge?

NAPOLITANO: If he sends veiled messages to the people in his audience who are prone to violence and he knows it and intends it, then he has caused it. But our friend is right. When the remedy for bad speech is more speech, the remedy for hate speech is more speech, on the other hand, the Chicago police had an obligation to protect Donald Trump's free speech rights --

KELLY: They did the best they could.

NAPOLITANO: The audience's right to listen and the protesters' right to protest.  

KELLY: They did the best they could. And that's what -- I mean, this country at its core is about encouraging speech and listening to viewpoints with which you disagree and no matter how vehemently you may. Great to see you all.  

And speaking of Mr. Trump calling out his detractors, or in some cases reporters, this weekend he took issue with this reporter's assertion at the last presidential debate that his now-defunct school Trump University had received a D-minus rating from the better business bureau in 2010. Mr. Trump is off base. At the debate, Mr. Trump claimed that his embattled Trump University had been upgraded from the D-minus rating you see here to an "A." I noted that this had never been publicly available. During a commercial break, Mr. Trump approached the moderators with the document he claimed was proof of Trump University's "A" rating. The document shown here says nothing about Trump University but relates to another entity. We agreed to look into it, but apparently not fast enough.


TRUMP: I gave you the report card. I gave you the "A" during the debate because they said it was a "D" and it was an "A." You did something very dishonest. You didn't report it.


KELLY: After the debate, we made inquiries about that document which had not been authenticated or verified, in which the Better Business Bureau denied sending to Mr. Trump at the debate. On that night's KELLY FILE we offered the following.


KELLY: Trump came over to us after that break and brought out a Better Business Bureau accreditation notice for the Trump entrepreneur initiative and this says that Trump's entrepreneur initiative on a scale of A to F has an "A" rating. But the point I was trying to make was, when Trump University was operating and got into trouble, it was given a "D" minus rating. That was the last public rating it had.




KELLY: He began under a new name, it had this "A" rating.  


KELLY: Mr. Trump now accuses your humble debate moderator of dishonesty.  We stand by our reporting which has been verified by multiple news organizations as well as the Better Business Bureau. Trump University had a "D" minus rating before it went out of business in 2010. The claim about the "A" is quite simply a head fake. The company at issue is Trump University, that's the business at the heart of the many fraud lawsuits.  In 2010, under siege Trump University changed its name to Trump entrepreneur initiative, or TEI. It was that business, TEI, only operational for a few months, that received an "A" and while Mr. Trump now claims that Trump University is not out of business --


TRUMP: I'm not out of business. It's not out of business. It's suspended until I win the lawsuit.


KELLY: That, too, is untrue. Trump University no longer exists. Its successor, TEI, was effectively closed within weeks of opening. As Mr. Trump's own testimony in the case makes clear. Here's what he told a court in 2013. Quote, "Within weeks of changing its name, TEI stopped accepting new students, offering live seminars or engaging in any advertising effectively ceasing its operations." And those, folks, are the facts.  

Also tonight a new bombshell in the controversy over Trump's campaign manager appearing to grab a Breitbart reporter after she asked a question.  That reporter, Michelle Fields, and one of her bosses, Ben Shapiro, one of her colleagues here to explain what has happened since then and why they have just resigned from Breitbart.

Plus, campaign strategist Mark McKinnon were there as some GOP insiders wrestled with Trump's impact on 2016. Wait until you hear what the establishment said on camera.


VIN WEBER, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: I talk to people all of the time, as I'm sure everybody around the table does, and they say, "Why don't you Republicans do something about this guy? I'm sorry. This is not the Soviet Union. We can't call a meeting and decide Trump is out.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, new evidence in the case of an alleged assault by Donald Trump's campaign manager. Criminal charges are now proceeding against Corey Lewandowski after now former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields claimed Trump's top guy grabbed her arm so hard at a recent event that it left bruises. At first, Fields simply wanted an apology. What she got was something very different. The videos we have seen so far, like the one we just showed you, seem to show everything except the moment of alleged contact between Fields and Lewandowski. Lewandowski denied there ever was any contact. But new footage emerged over the weekend and now folks on both sides suggests it proves their case. Watch.

Trace Gallagher live at the report in our West Coast Newsroom.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And remember, Megyn, the Trump campaign says not a single reporter or camera captured the alleged incident but we now have three different camera capturing what appears to be different angles of the incident. In the first you see red arrows pointing to Trump Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski and former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields. The arrows then point to her arm and Lewandowski's arm.  Finally you see Fields abruptly pulled out of view. In angle two, we still don't see actual contact, but you do see Corey Lewandowski reaching over toward Michelle Fields. And the third video clearly shows Lewandowski walking past Michelle Fields and apparently pulling her out of the way.  Now listen to an audio recording of the incident where "Washington Post" reporter Ben Terris talks to Michelle Fields about what happened. Play.


MICHELLE FIELDS, FORMER BREITBART REPORTER: I can't believe he just did that. That was so hard. Was that Corey?

BEN TERRIS, WASHINGTON POST REPORTER: Yes, like, what threat were you?

FIELDS: That was insane.


FIELDS: You should have felt how hard he grabbed me.


GALLAGHER: Fields claims he grabbed her hard enough to leave bruises but Lewandowski calls her, quote, "delusional and an attention seeker." Donald Trump accuses her of making it up and Trump supporters are now citing the third video we showed you of proof that Lewandowski never touched her. At first Breitbart supported Fields, now it backs up Corey Lewandowski saying he was misidentified and the text messages prove he did not do it. Fields resigned. So did editor-at-large Ben Shapiro accusing Breitbart of protecting Trump and his, quote, "bully campaign manager." Breitbart then ran a piece on its home page reading, quote, "Ben Shapiro betrays loyal Breitbart readers in pursuit of Fox News contributorship." The piece was later removed and the editor who wrote it apologized. But now two other Breitbart employees have also resigned and its chief pr rep has dropped the company. Listen.  


KURT BARDELLA, FORMER BREITBART SPOKESPERSON: It's one of the key reasons why I decided to resign working with Breitbart last week is because of their allegiance to Donald Trump and Breitbart's become a de facto Super PAC for the Donald Trump campaign.  


GALLAGHER: And Megyn, as you noted Michelle Fields has also filed a police report in this case -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Joining us tonight in "The Kelly File" exclusive, former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields and Ben Shapiro, the now former Breitbart editor-at-large.  He's also the current editor in chief of Great to see you both. So, Michelle, let me start with you. Why did you resign?

FIELDS: Well, I realized that my company didn't have my back. I can't stand with a company that won't stand for me. They knew the truth from the very beginning. My editor as soon as it happened had spoken to Corey. He told me that Corey has admitted to it and I was getting an apology so I stayed quiet. I wasn't going to make a big deal about it. Look, it's bruises. Whatever. It's fine. I thought I'm not going to make a huge deal. And that didn't happen. I never got the apology. Instead they embarked on this smear campaign against me.

So they knew the truth, my company knew the truth, and they're siding with Donald Trump and I have to say, you know, when this happened my Washington editor Matthew Boyle was telling me, oh, don't worry, this is going to be great because Donald Trump is going to give us so many exclusives now because they're going to feel like they have to do it because of what they did. This is how my company was looking at this. Instead of saying, wow, what happened, are you okay? Let's defend you. They were thinking that this was a good thing because we would get more access to Donald Trump.

KELLY: They denied but Matthew Boyle and Corey Lewandowski are denying that they had a conversation. And produced an e-mail that Corey Lewandowski said to Boyle, you know, I never talked to on the phone. And Boyle seemed to acknowledge that fact.

FIELDS: Well, let's see what he says if God forbid, we have to go to court and he subpoenaed and has to be on the stand testifying under oath.

KELLY: Ben, why did you resign?

BEN SHAPIRO, FORMER BREITBART EDITOR-AT-LARGE: I resigned because the fact is that Breitbart has unfortunately become a Trump Pravda site and the problem for me is that once you as any news organization, any media organization wants your loyalty to a political campaign, trumps your loyalty to your own supporters, I'm out. That is not something I can back, that's not something anybody decent should back and I'm disgusted by the fact that my mentor Andrew Breitbart started this organization to fight bullies and in my opinion, this organization has turned into an organization that actually promote bullies in order to get close contact with the bullying campaign.

KELLY: How did that manifest itself Ben, prior to Michelle incident, you know, the field to Trump? People call it Trumpbart (ph).

SHAPIRO: Yes, I mean, the fact is that I think any objective observer of Trump, at Breitbart News could see for months that Breitbart had become a very, very strong advocate for Donald Trump and look that's their prerogative. Any of your organization has the ability to set editorial.  The problem for me became absolutely clear when they decided to abandon their own reporter, and indeed undercut their own reporter. On Friday, they attempted to run a story, a very poorly evidence story in which they suggested the not only had Michelle basically batch the story that so had Ben Terris over at The Washington Post by misidentifying Lewandowski as a Secret Service agent, they did this on Breitbart. This is the site that Michelle reports for.

Once your loyalty again out ways, though your loyalty of the campaign outweighs your loyalty to the people work for you, that is something Andrew Breitbart would never would have stood for. If Andrew Breitbart were alive today, Andrew Breitbart would have been down in Florida getting in Corey Lewandowski's face and Donald Trump's face in demanding an apology for Corey Lewandowski grabbing and bruising Michelle.  

KELLY: Michelle, when you, you know, when this videotape came out today or yesterday, showing actual contact between you and Corey which he had denied, his supporters said this proves that this is a hoax, that Michelle Fields was not assaulted, she wasn't thrown down to the ground which you had not alleged but other people had suggested and they believe that this does not show a criminal assault. Your response to those folks.  

FIELDS: Well, I didn't want to file a criminal complaint. I never wanted to do that. The reason I did is because I was being accused of putting makeup on my arm to show that there were bruises. I needed a report to show people that this happened. And let me say, Corey in the beginning said he had never met me before, that I was delusional, that this did not happen. Now if you look at the campaign's approach and their Spokesperson Katrina Pierson's approach, is that well, it did happen but it wasn't that hard. This is a campaign that continues to lie. I never wanted it to get this way. Those bruises will heal. My problem is the smearing of my name, my reputation. I have to fight back.  

KELLY: But first they said that there was no video of the incident. Now we've seen that's true. Then they said there were no witnesses --

FIELDS: And no eyewitness.  

KELLY: -- that witnessed it and that's not true, "The Washington Post."  And then he said he never had any contact with you, now we've seen that is not true. Although those who suggested that you'd been pushed down to the ground, you know, in one report they said that's obviously not true either.  Ben, I want to ask you about the smear. Because, boy, Corey Lewandowski who, you know, it may be known to our viewers, has issued threats before.  Came after her and tried to -- I mean, they're basically trying to destroy her, Michelle's reputation. Saying that he's an attention seeker, and she tries to make herself a story, that she fabricates things. That's the implication. There's an article out today suggesting that that is a sexist smear. Your thoughts?

SHAPIRO: It is a sexist smear. I mean, the fact that the Corey Lewandowski was putting at reports from discredited websites, that he was accusing Michelle of being an attention seeker who had done this sort of thing in the past to gain attention to herself. And all that Corey Lewandowski had to do to stop this was apologize essentially and say that he didn't mean to do it. That is basically although that would stop this.  Instead he decided to lie and smear and Breitbart decided to go right along with that.

KELLY: So, why is this a story? And Ben, in your view, Ben, apart from you know, the implosion of Breitbart and it's part of the civil war that we're seeing in some, you know, from some on the right, why is this a story?

SHAPIRO: Well, I mean, I think the idolatrize worship of the Trump campaign by some people in the media leading to them covering up the truth is a major story and as you say, I think it's, again, a story because the Trump campaign never acknowledges mistakes. Never acknowledges their responsibility for violence. Never acknowledges anything that they do wrong. It's a no-apologies campaign. That's why he's popular. But that does that have consequences and it does have victims. You know, in this case, it was just a bruise on the arm. But, you know, there are other cases where it's more than that.

KELLY: Thank you, both, for being here. You can see Michelle's full interview that she did with yours truly along with the full response from the Trump campaign. This did not get to air in our normal 9:00 time slot because of the breaking news out of Chicago. It aired at 3:00 a.m. So, you may have missed it. But go to or on Twitter @MegynKelly to see Michelle's story and the Trump campaign rebuttal.  

Plus, we have new delegate math tonight ahead of tomorrow night's critical Republican primaries. Chris Stirewalt is here on the possible path this race may take and how it may end up in a contested convention in Cleveland.

And when campaign insider Mark McKinnon took his cameras into a dinner full of GOP establishment types, things got interesting and the results are next.  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never voted for anybody other than Republican for president of the United States. This will not be an easy thing for me.  



KELLY: Welcome back to "The Kelly File." So, we have been following the craziness of the 2016 GOP race, our next guest has been filming the whole thing up close and personal.

Behind the scenes for the show time political series "The Circus." Recently, Mark McKinnon and his cameras stopped by a lunch with some GOP establishment types. You know the type. They were talking about, wait for it, Trump.


RICK HOHLT, MAJOR GOP FUNDRAISER: Everybody around this table that I know, we've been in every presidential campaign probably since 1980 in various degrees, and in Trump's problem he doesn't have a -- you don't know what his compass is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how problematic is that for the future of the party?

HOHLT: I think before it's all over, it's going to be hugely problematic.

VIN WEBER, FORMER MINNESOTA CONGRESSMAN: I talk to people all the time. As I'm sure as they are on the table and they say, why don't you republicans do something about this guy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, this is not the Soviet Union. We can't call a meeting and decide Trump is out.



RON KAUFMAN, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH ADVISOR: Denying dictatorship, who's for it? Trump is doing well for one reason. He understands that the climate and the culture of America today better than anybody at this table.

MARK MCKINNON, "THE CIRCUS" CO-CREATOR & CO-HOST: How do you feel about the republican nominee may be someone that none of you not shell shocked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bewildered. Republicans are hierarchical, respectful of authority. We fall in line. And Trump has interrupted that cycle.

Donald Trump, nobody thought of him as any kind of political leader until six months ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not articulate, he's not poised, he's not informed. All he has going for him is a lot of votes. Why hasn't any of that hit home? Here we are. Here we are.


KELLY: Joining me now, Mark McKinnon, former chief media adviser to George W. Bush, and co-creator and co-host of the weekly documentary series "The Circus" on Show Time. Mark, great to see you.

I think Donald Trump should put that an ad, he could just run that as an ad for himself, am I wrong?

MCKINNON: Well, no, exactly. I mean, all the Trump supporters that saw that say that's exactly why we support this guy.

KELLY: Right. Right.

MCKINNON: And, well, we went out to find the members of the establishment and we found the six that are left.

KELLY: There they are. You found the room in which they eat.

MCKINNON: We did. And the interesting thing was, of course, that there's really no consensus among them except that they're completely bewildered about what to do. A couple of them are RNC members and they basically say, well, if he's nominated then we'll support him.

A couple of them are actually running behind super PACS trying to fight him and a couple of them said, you know, under no circumstances are we going to vote for him. So, there's no consensus within the establishment that's left about what to do, and hence, the chaos.

KELLY: But that sentiment about how we're republicans, there's a hierarchy, we fall in line. It's like people's heads are exploding right now say, I don't think so, wrong, wrong, sir. I mean, that -- that's exactly the problem is that mentality and then it was interesting to hear the other guy talk about how there is no -- they keep waiting for the establishment to go get Trump. Like, there is no one. There isn't some Calvary that can just shut it down.

MCKINNON: Well, there's that. I mean, that's the Calvary, those six guys. Clearly they're not -- they're not going to ride out and save it.

KELLY: No wonder the establishment is losing.


KELLY: With all due respect to those guys. They seem like nice people.

MCKINNON: Well, they are, they're smart guys and have been around a long time. And one of them said, which is one thing that's really true, which is they said Donald Trump has a better finger on the pulse of American voters than we do.

KELLY: That's right. And that's the mystery to all of them. They don't get why he resonates with the voters and continues to resonate. And I know you're talking about, you know, the state of the Republican Party right now and what it stands for right now.

And you said that there are three types of republicans at the moment, bewildered, bewitched, and confused. Who are those people? Why do you separate them like that?

MCKINNON: Well, I mean, there are those who are just bewildered by the phenomena of what's happening with Trump. And then of those who are just bewitched and think it's inevitable and then there's those that are just bothered by it and, you know, aren't going to vote for Trump under any circumstances.

So, that's -- I mean, it goes to the whole point about there's no consensus in the Republican Party. People are all over the map about what to do. And it's that chaos that has really fueled a lot of the success that Trump has had because there's no -- there's no unified front.

KELLY: And just today, John Kasich suggested that he might go back on that pledge to support the eventual nominee, whoever it may be, saying I got to think about this and I'm going to have an announcement about that later.

Marco Rubio suggested he's making it harder and harder. You know, he's expressing doubt. So, even these guys who are still in the race other than Ted Cruz are starting to wiggle on whether they could ultimately get behind him.

MCKINNON: Well, they are wiggling and I think part of that is, you know, the events of the last few days. It's just become a very volatile toxic atmosphere and I think that people flushing forward are trying to think how is this going to represent the Republican Party where at large and where our party goes not just this next election cycle but way beyond that?

You know, what's the real foundation, a philosophical underpinnings of the party and how does Donald Trump change that equation. Do we want to be part of that?

KELLY: Represent the party or demolish the party and start a new? I mean, is that -- is that a Trump nominee actually...


MCKINNON: Well, the irony -- the irony of all of this, of course, as you remember, a year ago or so, the republicans were forcing Donald Trump to sign -- to sign a pledge saying he'd run in the party and not run as a third-party candidate.

KELLY: That's right.

MCKINNON: Now it's just the opposite.

KELLY: He didn't like that question in August. I bet he wants to see those pledges right now. Fork them over.

MCKINNON: That's right.

KELLY: Great to see you, Mark. Great show.

MCKINNON: Thanks, Megyn. Kick it.

KELLY: Up next, Congressman Duncan Hunter was one of the first member of Congress to endorse Donald Trump. He'll weigh in on the establishment, the campaign trail chaos and all the rest of it.

Plus, one polling company decided to ask voters about the violence at these campaign rallies and we'll have the eye-opening results for you on what effect it's happening -- it's having on Super Tuesday 2 when Chris Stirewalt joins us just ahead.



SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Forget about the election for a moment. There's a broader issue in our political culture in this country. I think we all need to take a step back and ask ourselves, are we contributing to this? Because if this continues, I don't think this country will continue to be ripped apart at the seams.

You saw those images last night of people getting in their face often divided up among racial lines in many cases. The police officers bleeding from the head. Reminiscent of images from the '60s. I mean, we're going backwards here. This is a frightening, grotesque, and disturbing development in American politics.

I believe Donald Trump as our nominee is going to shatter and fracture the Republican Party and the conservative movement. I still, at this moment, continue to intend to support the republican nominee, but getting harder every day.


KELLY: That was presidential candidate Marco Rubio, fielding questions about the state of the race and the current front-runner in a news conference with reporters on Saturday morning.

Joining me to respond, Donald Trump supporter and California Congressman Duncan Hunter. Great to see you, Congressman.

So, what are your thoughts on that, that the predictions of doom that we heard from him and from some of those guys sitting around that round table moments ago, should Donald Trump become the nominee?

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER, R-CALIF.: Well, from Senator Rubio, he's in the race, right, so he's going to -- he has his own opinion. He's in the fight. You always feel differently when you're in the fight.

But here's what this is. If people are going to vote for Donald Trump, in the millions, more people than have voted in a decade, and they're going to vote for him, that is the GOP establishment. It isn't the global corporatists or the intellectual elite that are angry that they're not going to be in the administration.

The people are the party. The republican people are the party. I'm not the party. I'm simply a representative of a few hundred thousand people in San Diego.

And I'll tell you what, too, Megyn, when I came back from Afghanistan from my third tour, right, I came back and I ran for office in San Diego. I was not on city council. I was never in the State Senate or something. So, I jumped ahead of all of these guys that had been planning for years to run for U.S. Congress. I jumped in front of all of them.

I'll tell you what, that upsets people, that makes them angry. I mean, that's something that does upset people. And I can see the anger coming out of all these people that had this planned and they were going to be in the establishment, they were going to be really big movers and shakers. Guess what, now they're not. And that upsets them.

KELLY: They got Trumped.

HUNTER: I'm sorry. They got Trumped.

KELLY: So, that was amazing listening to the guys talking in the roundtable saying he's not articulate, he's not poised, he's not informed, all he has going for him is a lot of votes.

HUNTER: Right. You know, take any businessman...


KELLY: Right. That is how it works.

HUNTER: ... right. Take any businessmen in America and put him on TV and they're going to inarticulate and they're not going to be poised and they're going to go, hey, I'm running for president, I'm running for Congress. But all it takes is vote.

If the American people like Donald Trump, they are Republican Party.

KELLY: They are the bosses.

HUNTER: And that's it. That's right.

KELLY: They are the bosses not the guys that sit around the table. And it doesn't mean the other guys can't make a good run for it, but it does show you how the GOP, quote, "establishment got caught" so much on its heels, like -- I don't -- where is the hierarchy? What is going -- where -- who is -- why haven't they kissed the ring?

HUNTER: Yes. What, who, where, yes. There is no hierarchy, though. The American people get vote. I mean, this is what's right about America. The American people get to vote, right? And it doesn't matter who endorses who, it doesn't matter whether you put in $100 million or $30 million. If the American people don't like you, they're not going to vote for you.

KELLY: That's right.

HUNTER: If they like you, then you're going to win. It's that simple.

KELLY: That's right. It's like -- it's like the juries in court. They have a way of figuring it out despite the spin.

HUNTER: And the American people are not stupid. They know what they're doing and they can tell -- I mean, you know, we meet people every day, Megyn, you meet people every day. You can tell if they're fake or they're an honest person.

The American people can tell. I mean, oh, my gosh, we've had 12 debates now. I mean, I think that they know who Donald Trump is at this point and they're still voting for him.

KELLY: Well, they should -- we're just going to have just one more and then they're going to get to know him a little better. There's a Fox News debate on Monday.


KELLY: Great to see you, Congressman Hunter. Great to see you.

HUNTER: Thank you.

KELLY: Again, with just more than nine hours now, right? Just more than nine hours until the polls open for Super Tuesday 2, we have got some eye- opening new numbers from a top pollster and then from Chris Stirewalt, next. Here they come.


KELLY: Breaking tonight. It is 9.50 Eastern Time and at this hour, live pictures of Marco Rubio campaigning in Florida. Ted Cruz campaigning in Illinois. A little more than nine hours before the polls open for Super Tuesday 2.

In the key State of Ohio, Monmouth University polling shows Ohio Governor John Kasich leading with 40 percent to Trump's 35. In Florida Mr. Trump is in first with 44 percent. Florida Senator Rubio is in second with 27 percent.

So, what do we make of these? Patrick Murray is director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute, Chris Stirewalt is also here. he's our Fox News digital politics editor, part of decision desk.

Patrick, so let's talk about these numbers. I mean, just bottom line it for us. Does Kasich going to win Ohio or Trump is going to win Ohio?

PATRICK MURRAY, MONMOUTH UNIVERSITY POLLING INSTITUTE DIRECTOR: It's going to be close. Definitely it's going to...


KELLY: Come on! We want to know


MURRAY: I trust my numbers. I've had actually, I've done really well with predicting where Kasich was going to do well in terms of our polls, so I think he's going to pull it off.

KELLY: OK. If you look at the Real Clear Politics average, I like to look those because it shows you all the polls in recent weeks.


KELLY: You just look over at the far right side and what you see in Ohio is Kasich, Kasich, Kasich, Kasich. Right? Which suggest, OK, I think I know how this is going to go.


KELLY: Same thing for Trump down in Florida where, I mean, you know, you hear Marco Rubio talk. Like, I don't believe those polls. Those polls are wrong.

MURRAY: We have it at 17 points and that's actually I think on the lower end from flips some of these polls are showing and we had at 8 points a week ago. So, Trump is doubled...


KELLY: Why is that? What is that, just sort of the...

MURRAY: I think...

KELLY: Aura of invincibility.

MURRAY: ... there's been -- there have been a lot of attack ads against Marco Rubio in Florida. His job approval rating among primary voters, republican primary voters is about 60 percent, which is low in your own party.

KELLY: That's actually higher than the poll we saw for him last week. It was almost 50.



KELLY: It was 40 percent.

MURRAY: Yes. I mean, that's just not good. I also think the events of Friday night actually had something to do with it...


KELLY: Yes. Tell us. How did that affect voters?

MURRAY: Well, we actually, yes, after Friday night happened, we were actually we're interviewing Friday night, so in Saturday and Sunday night we actually added a question about the events in Chicago and how they made you feel about Trump.

Two thirds said, had no impact either way. But 22 percent said it made them more likely to support Trump versus 11 percent who said less likely and that's a few points. And in fact, more importantly, we saw on Saturday and Sunday nights Trump's lead widens from where it was republican...


KELLY: Republicans don't like to see that kind behavior. That's not -- that's not their thing, right? You're always talking about how republicans more like, OK, I'm going to wait in line and I'm not going to talk to the exit poll people and I'm not going to go out there and protest, I'm just going to vote them out of office.

MURRAY: Right.

KELLY: OK. So, tomorrow night, if Patrick's right, because you've heard it right here, he predicted that Rubio is going to lose -- no. He didn't.

MURRAY: I'll say it. I'll say it. Yes, Rubio's going to lose Florida.

KELLY: Oh, wow, he did it. OK. So, if Rubio loses Florida and Kasich wins Ohio, Chris, what does that mean for this race going forward?

STIREWALT: Well, it depends a great deal about what happens in Illinois, Missouri, and North Carolina because there are more delegates at stake in those three other states that are proportionally allocated.

The reason we gave so much tension to Florida and Ohio is that they are winner-take-all. Boom. You win them 99 delegates in Florida, what is it?

MURRAY: It's 65.

STIREWALT: A 65 in Ohio. I haven't written down. It will be OK. But the other three states have more delegates combined when you look at them, especially Illinois. A huge trove of delegates. So, what are we looking at Ted Cruz especially in Missouri, Illinois and North Carolina. How's he doing there?

We don't expect him to win either one of the winner-take-all states. We expect that Kasich, the polling would indicate that we expect Kasich Ohio. Trump Florida. Now as Bernie Sanders demonstrated in Michigan last week, sometimes the polls are wrong.

KELLY: Right.

STIREWALT: But that's what the polls tell us. But we're looking closely to see how these counties especially the ones that are close to places where Ted Cruz has done well before.

KELLY: So, if Cruz does reasonably well in those states and Ohio and Florida split, as we just discussed, is this thing headed for an open convention, you know, contested?

STIREWALT: Well, yes or maybe another thing happens. Maybe the other thing that happens is that the republicans suck it up and have a Ted Cruz sandwich. They have resisted this for a long time.

But if Marco Rubio gets knocked out of the race, if he loses in Florida, especially if he losses by a margin and not carting well in the other states, it is possible that the republicans will say as much as we do not like the guy who has been lighting our castle on fire with torches for four years, maybe we'll back this guy.

KELLY: It's like you have a few Martinis and suddenly you start to look like a lot better.

STIREWALT: He's in 6 b's, right.

KELLY: OK. Great to see you both. We'll be right back.

STIREWALT: Just saying.


KELLY: So, tune in tomorrow to Fox News for Super Tuesday 2 starts at 7 p.m. Eastern. Yours truly and Mr. Baier will bring you the results, a huge night. Could determine this whole thing. Then stay tuned for a late night "Kelly File" at 11 p.m. See you then.

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