Limbaugh: Political philosophy won't beat Trump's talk

Talk show titan issues warning to rival Republican presidential candidates


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 17, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

South Carolina's GOP primary is three days away, and the latest poll shows Trump maintaining his double digit lead, Cruz in second and Rubio third. The state republican governor Nikki Haley is about to endorse a candidate. Yesterday, she made it very clear it's not going to be Trump.


GOV. NIKKI HALEY, R-S.C.: When you have candidates that come in, that go against governors, it's everything that a governor doesn't want in a president.

QUESTION: Is it safe to say that you're not going to endorse Trump?

HALEY: I think it is probably safe to say that. Yeah.


BOLLING: Yeah, I guess it would be.

We found out earlier, it's going to be Marco Rubio and she will appear at a rally with him in an hour. Now Trump is holding right now, a rally right now in the town of Walterboro. We'll watch that to see what happens. But first, reaction to Governor Haley's upcoming endorsement of Marco Rubio; Nikki Haley endorsing Rubio.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think you know I always feel about endorsements that adding not subtracting is really good. And on yesterday, over the weekend, I think Jeb Bush, one of the candidates said that the Nikki Haley endorsement would be just one of the biggest things that you could get, and she decided today to go with Marco Rubio. And I think that for her, I mean, that's a tough decision. I mean there are a lot of good candidates that are remaining, and South Carolina is where -- it's third, so that's why it gets a little bit heated and the battle is joined there and that she is going to endorse him. Adds to the Tim Scott, the senator from South Carolina and Trey Gowdy endorsement, and those three are very powerful republican in South Carolina with a huge amount of approval ratings amongst them.

BOLLING: And is that -- (inaudible). Is that the intend to make -- to help Marco Rubio take a second place finish there? Is that what --

PERINO: I don't know if that will actually end up happening. I mean, again, I think endorsements are great if you're adding, not subtracting. That's really good. I mean, I would argue with that. The Haley endorsement in South Carolina is better than the Palin endorsement of Trump in Iowa. I think that you could argue that even though Palin is not a government figure at this moment. But Haley in South Carolina has about an 81 percent approval rating, and that's a good thing for Marco Rubio.

BOLLING: What do you think of this endorsement? Number one, and number two, Jeb Bush, now he -- he's going to be saying, "hey, what about me?"

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'm sure he was hoping to get this. But he was honest about it and said this is an endorsement that matters, like he said (inaudible) in the plus versus the minus, you know, column. So this is the endorsement. I'm sure anyone would have been very happy to receive. She is, you know, well-regarded within the Republican Party. She's made no bones about it. She is not a Trump supporter, so wait and think he was going to get it, right? I mean, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio -- I think this actually hurts Ted Cruz, because this is really giving sway to kind of a movement for Marco Rubio and saying, OK, well, if you're coming down to these two guys, these, you know, two young senators, give a, you know, give a push, a plus push for his column.

BOLLING: Good point, Geraldo. Today, Quinnipiac came out with the national poll. GOP voters said Trump, number 1 to 36 percent. I believe it was. Now, second place is now Marco Rubio. Ted Cruz has slid to third place, 19 and 18, if I'm not mistaken.

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: I think that the Nikki Haley endorsement might be relevant as to who comes in second, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans in terms of who will win South Carolina, who will win the Nevada caucuses on Saturday. Who will go on to get the GOP nod. The people who are for Trump, they don't care about endorsements. Trey Gowdy doesn't count. Even Tim Scott, the only African-American in the United States senate, his endorsement doesn't count when it comes to the Trump supporter; that a black cab driver took me into town. He said, "I'm voting for Trump." I said, why? "Because I'm out --he's an outsider. He's gonna shake things up."

BOLLING: But Cruz and Rubio have been fighting it out variably for second place.

RIVERA: Well, you know --

GUILFOYLE: It helps there.

RIVERA: It maybe more generally -- if the person who is most, I think filled with lament right now is Jeb Bush.


RIVERA: Jeb Bush brings his mom. He brings his brother, the former president, and what happens? They can't even fill a stadium, a 6,000 sets stadium --

BOLLING: What do you say Tom?

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: My question is, why so late? I mean, she's from South Carolina. She could have been running around the state.

GUILFOYLE: A player, yeah.

SHILLUE: Now what --

PERINO: Right.

SHILLUE: You think I'm right?

PERINO: No. I think she's right.

SHILLUE: She's right, why?

PERINO: Yeah, I think.

SHILLUE: Because, just because of the news cycle?

PERINO: No, I think -- I think that one, I think she did the right thing to let the candidates go through Iowa, New Hampshire, take a look. See what's happening. Maybe she was -- maybe she had said -- she could have said -- six months ago she was for Marco Rubio, but maybe she didn't know that. The other story about this --

GUILFOYLE: She thinks the best move for Haley.

PERINO: For Haley.

GUILFOYLE: That she waited, there was no advantage --

PERINO: Yeah, like why would --

GUILFOYLE: . too soon. But this is advantage for candidates.

PERINO: Especially right, doing it before, a few days before South Carolina's -- South Carolinians vote. I think she did the right thing --

SHILLUE: But she will get a lot of attention, I think. But I feel like -- is it campaigning about running around and make, you know, I feel like there was a lot of time. It's great for national news. But I think of, as a local politician --

GUILFOYLE: You're saying a candidate would have benefited more from an earlier endorsement. Of course --


PERINO: She said, the 25 percent of voters in South Carolina say they haven't made up their mine yet.


PERINO: So the last two days matter.

BOLLING: And Dana, I would agree -- I would guess it was move on, but I would guess she's gonna wait and see until after the day. See how things shook out after the debate --

PERINO: Yeah, and she hadn't done it before hand, everybody here would say, how dare she do that.

BOLLING: All right. Let's move on to this one. Trump is threatening legal action against Ted Cruz over one of his ads that challenged Trump's stance on abortion. Today Cruz said, "Bring it on."


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's liar. So he will go up and he'll absolutely lie. I don't want an apology after the election. I want the apology before. And if he doesn't, I'm gonna bring a lawsuit to this.

TED CRUZ, TEXAS SENATOR: To Mr. Trump, you have been threatening frivolous lawsuits for your entire adult life. So Donald, I would encourage you. If you want to file a lawsuit, challenging this ad, claiming it is defamation -- file a lawsuit.


BOLLING: So Trump -- Cruz says, this campaign was sent a cease and desist letter, ordering them to take down the spot. Now let's start a legal into the table. Your thoughts on this whole --


GUILFOYLE: It is like an opera or something. To me, I don't know when he comes off like that. I mean, I knew he is super smart, he's at Supreme Court. All of that, true conservative, check the box, check the box. But guess what? It still just comes off too much like performance art. It's so dramatic. It's like (inaudible). I don't know. It s just, to me, it doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't make me feel -- smooth.

BOLLING: You want to talk a little bit about the legal --


RIVERA: I'll talk legal, absolutely. I think that Ted Cruz is absolutely right on the law. It is an impossible defamation suit to file. The suit that Donald Trump should file is the natural born citizen. There he has, I think plenty of experts on his side that say that Ted Cruz is not a natural born citizen. But to win a defamation suit.

GUILFOYLE: Truth is defense.

RIVERA: .the concept of a political campaign.


RIVERA: . is impossible.


BOLLING: And Dana, talk a little about -- in this Quinnipiac poll, showing Trump of the commanding lead over Cruz. Why is he punching -- you could say he he's punching down now.

PERINO: Yeah, to say it's unnecessary. And if there's one thing that republicans just love, it's the filing of frivolous lawsuits. I mean, that's a page out of the left book. It's a way to get attention, but Donald Trump doesn't need to get attention. I think it is unnecessary.

BOLLING: What do you make of this back and forth?

SHILLUE: Well, I think it is. It's a brilliant way to get attention, I think. I don't think he's serious about the lawsuit. He just uses it as a way to mention that Canada thing. You know he brings that up every time in the way that he loves get any opportunity to brand his opponents. Whenever he can talk about Jeb being low energy, he does that. And so this is a great way, because when you threaten a lawsuit, you get in the press, that's what people tale about. If you had just mentioned the Canada thing again, in passing, we wouldn't have reported on it. But people love to talk when there's a lawsuit, but you know --

GUILFOYLE: He should just be like, oh, yeah, Ted, I'll get back to you about the lawsuit after I win and beat you in the election.

PERINO: I think the Canada thing is actually not working as well for Trump, as he thought, because if it was, he would still be using it. He would be using it more. I think after Iowa, he backed down on --

SHILLUE: Well, we thought it got old. But then he said he was at the speech the other day. He said -- and this, I just learned in the past, a few days that you know, he might -- he acts as if it is new news, and he tries to make it fresh again, but I think it does. Some people who don't know what's going on, they just have this sense. If they don't follow politics that maybe Ted Cruz is from Canada and they're going to hold it against him. You know --

RIVERA: Ted Cruz is from Canada.

SHILLUE: I know but --


GUILFOYLE: Oh, actually --


RIVERA: I think he should just hit him on the liar. Liar, liar, keep saying on that liar, liar thing.

BOLLING: I mean, he's getting --


GUILFOYLE: Liar, liar, pants on fire.


BOLLING: And then he gets Rubio --

RIVERA: But Dana is right about --

GUILFOYLE: This helps Rubio, though, by the way.

BOLLING: And it also helps Trump that Rubio jumped in on that -- oh, by the way, Cruz is a liar. I think too.

GUILFOYLE: And now that he's like, oh yeah.

PERINO: And by the way, Cruz had been drafted behind Trump for about six months, so --

RIVERA: Right.

BOLLING: How about this one.


BOLLING: Is Donald Trump unstoppable if he wins South Carolina? Newt Gingrich has some ideas.


NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Bush isn't going to drop out. Rubio is not going to drop out. Cruz isn't going to drop out. Kasich is not going to drop out. Carson may be less of a factor, but take those four. Why should any one of them say, oh, I'm going to sacrifice and quit, so we can consolidate. And the result is -- I think you very likely going to see Trump. I wish he were a little more presidential. I think it would be better for him and it will be better for the country. But I got to say, this aggressive strident style, he is holding his base together in a way that I did -- I really thought he would suffer from the debate performance the other night. And it doesn't seem to have had any impact at all.


BOLLING: Yeah. And KG, you cited that poll. You look at foreign policy. You look at defeating ISIS. You look at the economy. I mean, the guy has a commanding lead across the board, Donald Trump, on all of those.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, people want a wartime person, yet they have to run the country. That's the kind of where everyone is at. That's why you have people who say, I'll vote for Donald Trump or I'll vote for Bernie Sanders. They want someone who will shake things up that's outside, you know, the kind of the status quo and politics as usual in D.C. And when it comes to Trump, that's when he has the advantage over someone like Sanders, et cetera. Because I think if somebody is gonna muscle up, and not be afraid to call out ISIS rather people, it's gonna be Donald Trump.

BOLLING: Did you happen to see --

GUILFOYLE: The rhetoric is matching the mood a little bit of the country. And you know, so they have to see what they're going to get.

BOLLING: Did you happen to see the, there was a protester at a Trump rally last night.


BOLLING: He was flipping the place off. And there was a cop in --

RIVERA: And a rhetoric veteran.

BOLLING: Yeah, and a veteran who escorted him. He came in a big Trump supporter.

RIVERA: And then they let him speak.


RIVERA: They let the guy speak that throughout the protest.

BOLLING: Your thoughts.

RIVERA: My thought is this. I believe that you, Eric Bolling, favor at least emotionally Donald Trump. In the same way that I may -- let me finish, I may favor Donald Trump the most -- if I quit -- if that it wasn't that --

BOLLING: Yeah, you are being emotionally.

RIVERA: Let me finish my sentence. That's my premise.


RIVERA: So no one can be further right in the GOP, no further left in the GOP than you and I. The fact that Trump is appealing to both of us is a function of this --

BOLLING: Well, it appeals to me.

RIVERA: Let me get to my punch line.

BOLLING: . but not exactly emotional reasons --

RIVERA: Let me get to my punch line. The fact that he appeals to both of us --

GUILFOYLE: Or it just something.

RIVERA: I throw a huge ideological gap --

BOLLING: Of course. I agree with that.

RIVERA: We are putting into Donald Trump what we want to see. That is the brilliance of Trump.

BOLLING: Can I just clear on this before I bring on to everyone else? I don't have an emotional attachment to Donald Trump. I like the fact that he's a businessman. I've known him for a long time. And frankly, tired of business as usual in D.C., I would like to see someone with fresh blood, change --

RIVERA: It just a way of (inaudible).

BOLLING: Not in the moment.

GUILFOYLE: Man crush.

RIVERA: Man crush.


GUILFOYLE: Man crush, I thought --


PERINO: You want me to bail you out?


PERINO: Seems like all conflict --

BOLLING: All right. I'm not looking for a bailout. I just want to know --

PERINO: Let me -- I have actually something to say about that. So in South Carolina, it is an open primary. One of the things that work in Donald Trump's favor is this crossover. So in the South Carolina primary, if you're a democrat, you can vote in a republican -- for republican in the primary. That does help Donald Trump. It probably helps his number a little bit. It might help Kasich, as well, a little bit.


PERINO: Maybe it's not enough, but it could help a little bit. The problem I don't -- that I don't understand, why when you're this far ahead, why don't then you probably start consolidating some other games -- if you're Trump. So 26 -- in the poll this morning, I can't remember the name of it, the 26 percent of republicans called said they would never be able to cast a vote for him. So in my opinion, instead of spouting out like leftist trutherisms (ph) in the debate about the Iraq war and WMD, why not try to consolidate the fact and, that you are in the lead and say, OK, I realize that the rest of the GOP is not going to all of a sudden become ant-trade, pro-Obamacare, appease Putin, whatever it is. Why not try to then start thinking ahead to the general election, rather than cutting away at the lead that you already have?

BOLLING: Or maybe because if you lock down South Carolina, you've got New Hampshire and South Carolina, no one else has won. I mean --


BOLLING: That makes a great chance for running the table.

PERINO: When you get to winners -- these are not winner take all states yet.

BOLLING: Correct.

PERINO: But they are starting March 15th.

SHILLUE: But I agree with Geraldo, to an extent. I don't know if it's the voters are seeing whatever they want in Trump. He is taking positions that are all over the place. So of course, I think he is starting to think of the general election already. And I think that's what he was doing the other day when he was going after Bush and he was talking, you know, he was, he was coming -- taking some left-wing talking points, because I think he is going --

RIVERA: Planned Parenthood.

SHILLUE: Yes. I mean --

GUILFOYLE: And by the way, Dana just gave you the most important point as show so far. Winner takes all in less than 30 days.

BOLLING: All right. Yeah, in fact, I think 40 percent of all the delegates are gonna be award in the month of March if I'm not mistaken. This is --

PERINO: March madness.

BOLLING: March Madness. So make sure to tune in...


BOLLING: . at 7:00 p.m. eastern. Governor Haley will be on Greta's show following her Rubio endorsement. That's a big date, you don't want to miss that, and.


BOLLING: . I'm going to be hosting the "O'Reilly Factor" at 8:00 p.m., so please keep it right here on Fox News Channel all night straight through.

Coming up, conservative icon Rush Limbaugh, takes on the issue of Trump's conservatism. Stay tuned.


GUILFOYLE: Well, a lot of conservatives have questioned whether Donald Trump is a true conservative, including Rush Limbaugh, following Saturday night's debate.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: There were a number of occasions where Donald Trump sounded like the daily cause blog. Where Donald Trump sounded like democrat underground. Sounded like any average host on MSNBC. He is not stupid. He has political advisers. He has a lot of people who are conservatives who are there to tell him where the boundaries are. And he's crossed those boundaries on Saturday.


GUILFOYLE: Trump isn't always in lock step with conservatives, right? So when one of Rush's callers asked him how he is doing so well without holding all the same beliefs. Here was his answer.


LIMBAUGH: The best thing I can tell you folks, I guess as I assess all this, is this is not an election competition of philosophies. We're way beyond that. People are not going to rely on philosophy to accomplish anything. You can have the best philosophy in the world. I don't care what you call it and it's not going to mean anything. If you're up against somebody who succeeds that making people think he's gonna break balls, kick butts, take names, put people in prison, fix country, make the country great again, whatever the hell that means to people, you can philosophize all day long in a competition against it, and we'll see it a rear view mirror.


GUILFOYLE: That kind of sound of good, didn't it? I like that. Take games, boom. All right, put away the bad guys. So there's actually some breaking news that has come to fruition here. And Bolling, we have some new poll numbers in.

BOLLING: Yes. The producers just got in our ear and said there are new numbers. They gave us this handy little piece of paper. According to NBC/ Wall Street Journal poll just released between the A block and the B block, it has Ted Cruz with the 28 to 26 lead over Donald Trump, Rubio at 17 percent. That poll carries a 3.5 percent margin of error. So basically, too close to call, and there are 800 registered republican voters. Bloomberg also came out with a poll about simultaneously. It has Trump 36 percent; Cruz, 17 percent; Rubio, 15; Jeb Bush 13 --

GUILFOYLE: In South Carolina.

BOLLING: In South Carolina.

Oh, yeah, right. The first poll is national and the Bloomberg poll, I believe was South Carolina, if I'm not --


BOLLING: Is that right? OK, so that's right.


BOLLING: So you have three separate polls release today. Quinnipiac has trump beating Rubio and Cruz, combined. Bloomberg --

PERINO: In South Carolina.

BOLLING: In South Carolina. Bloomberg has him beating Cruz and Rubio combined as well. And nationally, NBC/Wall Street journal has Cruz --

RIVERA: That's an ally. That's a big one, though.

BOLLING: Definitely.

RIVERA: I mean that is so different than all the polls we have seen. Trump falling to second place in a national GOP poll and it is a very reputable outfit. NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, it's not like, you know Joe's weekly newspaper. This is big a poll. It's the first time I've seen Trump in second place, at least in recent weeks or even months in a national poll. It is an outlier.


RIVERA: It spread 10 points away from like the other polls.

BOLLING: How do you -- what you --

GUILFOYLE: 28 to 26 and what's in third.

BOLLING: Literally, the same day, Quinnipiac is also a national. Quinnipiac is national.

RIVERA: Not just Quinnipiac, it was several today and this is the only one that shows --

BOLLING: No, but on a national, national basis. One has him tied, the other has --

RIVERA: Who knows?

BOLLING: Has Trump up by --

RIVERA: This seems to be more --

RIVERA: Twenty points.

RIVERA: This seems to be more oppose --

GUILFOYLE: Eric, Trump and (inaudible) is on the line --equate this.

BOLLING: No, no, stop.

RIVERA: South Carolina debate post (inaudible) is the liar.

BOLLING: It is all about the numbers. It's all about the numbers, right? How one of these is -- one of these pictures is wrong. I mean, everything has been consistently one way, and then there's one poll that hasn't tie. It's strange, unless he dramatically fell or they're using different methodology.


RIVERA: I mean following the debate.

BOLLING: Yeah, but this is post debate as well.

RIVERA: It is, yeah, (inaudible). Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: OK, so Miss South Carolina?


PERINO: I'm just --

GUILFOYLE: Just so you know.

PERINO: I'm just enjoying the amazement. Because the truth is that this race is not over. And South Carolinians just said, I think 25 percent, at least.


PERINO: . are undecided. And they usually make up their mind after the last debate in their state before they vote. And so what Bill McInturff, the republican pollster as part of this poll said, "when you see a number this different it means you might be right on top of a shift in the campaign. What you don't know yet is that it is a change is going to take place or if it is a momentary pause before the numbers snap back into place." So nobody knows yet, but --


PERINO: . if I were Ted Cruz.


PERINO: . I would say this is an excellent -- this is excellent news for Ted Cruz and his supporters, especially his funders. And then if you're Marco Rubio.


PERINO: . you got a big boost of the Nikki Haley endorsement today. I'm sure, maybe NBC could expect a lawsuit file, you know, before the end of the show to complain --

RIVERA: That's a Canadian --


BOLLING: I'll tell what you will happen, though --


BOLLING: All the establishment who've hated Donald Trump, leading by this amount, now it goes, oh, great. Now we got Ted Cruz in first place. Now their heads are gonna really will explode.

RIVERA: I've got good news and bad news.

BOLLING: Exactly.


RIVERA: Good news is Trump is not in first place. Bad news, Cruz is.


GUILFOYLE: OK. Rush Limbaugh, who's in third in that poll now?

RIVERA: Who is in third?


PERINO: Rubio.


RIVERA: Rubio, all right.

SHILLUE: Rubio at 17.

GUILFOYLE: Rubio -- 28, 26.

SHILLUE: . eleven.

GUILFOYLE: . seventeen Rubio --


PERINO: Kasich ahead of Carson and Jeb Bush. I mean, that's the --

RIVERA: That's the highest, I think Kasich also.

GUILFOYLE: But out now, Bush doing better in South Carolina. So perhaps, there is been some movement there. All right, well, you know --

RIVERA: What do you say Bush doing better now?


SHILLUE: I think --

RIVERA: Listen, Bush is at 4 percent.


SHILLUE: At some point, Trump was going to have to -- he was going to start moving to try to get democrat voters. I thought he really jumped out of the gate and he pass. He's gone way early. And I thought, I mean, Trump has surprised me before. But it seems like, that was a strange move to make at the debate the other night to --

PERINO: I don't think it was strategic.

SHILLUE: You don't?

PERINO: No. I think it came straight from the heart.


PERINO: I think that's what -- he actually believes it.

SHILLUE: I don't know. Everything he does is strategic and again, he always blows my mind. When he went after McCain, I thought well, it's over. I mean, he's always been very strategic and I think he is cocky and he thought, I'm going to clean up in South Carolina, and it is time that I start moving this common sense conservative thing that he's been saying that over and over. He's already trying to play to the middle of the country.

RIVERA: I disagree. I think Dana is right. I think it was just he spontaneously, he said it and then he backs it later.


RIVERA: Just like the Mexican migrant, drug leader or rapist thing.

BOLLING: I -- probably --


BOLLING: I mean, I would agree with that, because Donald Trump isn't very scripted at all. And he hasn't -- listens to Donald Trump. He's got a ring of advisers around, but he does his thing. I just -- I'm -- even the pollster who too, conducted this poll said, they don't read too much into this yet. I don't know. I just --

SHILLUE: Don't you --

BOLLING: Look, he's not a liar.

SHILLUE: But don't you agree with what Rush said? I mean, he kind of --



SHILLUE: He analyzed that correctly, I think. And Trump knows that it is not about issues. So he's gonna keep playing this personality game and make people think that he is a disruptor.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I'm gonna sue Bolling when we get back with the Trump tie. It's gonna -- we're accounted (ph), promise.

BOLLING: I'll fight with it.

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, Hillary Clinton is in danger of losing another contest this weekend, if Bernie Sanders takes Nevada. Can her campaign recover?

RIVERA: Nevada.


RIVERA: You say in Nevada.


RIVERA: In South Carolina, where their primary is a week from Saturday, blacks make up 55 percent of democratic voters. At least they did that in 2008. So it takes Clinton holds a comfortable lead in South Carolina. But in Nevada, which holds its caucuses this Saturday, blacks only make up 15 percent. At least they did in 2008. Polls there show her in a virtual tie with Bernie Sanders, and the importance of race in the race for the White House is not lost on either democratic candidate.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to begin by facing up to the reality of systemic racism, because these are not only problems of economic inequality. These are problems of racial inequality. Race still plays a significant role in determining who gets ahead in America and who gets left behind.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A broken criminal justice system -- fight (ph) to institutional racism. What we have got to do is bring justice back to the criminal justice system.


RIVERA: First of all, I agree with both the Democratic candidates on this issue of race. South Carolina, K.G., has something neither New Hampshire nor Iowa has. South Carolina has black people.


RIVERA: Fifty-five percent of the Democratic electorate is black. They are 90 percent...

GUILFOYLE: You mean the majority.

RIVERA: ... approving of President Obama. That's why Hillary Clinton is like -- wants to be the Siamese twin of Barack Obama. If she can ride that black wave, she can sustain this attack that Bernie Sanders has done.

GUILFOYLE: Well, she's riding that black wave that was voted in by Americans across this country for two terms in a row. So I mean, she's making this argument and race baiting and fear-mongering, going on and on about race relations, which I don't think she's helping further positive race relations whatsoever with her rhetoric. Because it just seems rather self-serving. Because she wants to pander to them, and she wants to get elected. By saying, look, you've been treated so horribly, but I'm going to treat you very well.

RIVERA: Be that as I may, but I don't disagree with Kimberly. The fact of the matter is, in states where there are substantial -- substantial percentage of black voters, I think Hillary Clinton can withstand the Bernie Sanders...

BOLLING: Saying what's going on, though. You're right. She has. She's attached herself to President Obama for some reason. But think about this, Geraldo. And she's clearly doing this.

But under President Obama from 2009 to now, President Obama, incomes from African-Americans have gone down. It's the only group. Hispanics' incomes have gone up. Whites' incomes have gone up. So they fared the worst under President Obama. Poverty has gone up. The highest, the biggest expansion in poverty has gone up within the black community under President Obama the same years, and the unemployment number has also skyrocketed. The African- American unemployment has skyrocketed under President Obama.

So if you really care about the African-American community, what Bernie Sanders should be doing is pointing out these numbers saying, "You know what? You don't want eight, four -- eight more years of that. It's going to put you further and further in debt."

But for some reason, African-Americans want to vote for her, because she has now attached herself to Barack Obama. It's a big mistake.

RIVERA: You know, I see it very pragmatically, Dana. I think that in states where there are significant minority populations, Hillary Clinton will prevail.

But I was at the College of Charleston in South Carolina. I could not find a Hillary Clinton supporter. And I'd venture to say wearing a Hillary Clinton sweatshirt would be as popular as wearing a KKK sweatshirt.

PERINO: It's all Bernie Sanders.

RIVERA: Bernie, Bernie, Bernie, and they were like two or three for Rubio. The vast majority, Bernie Sanders.

PERINO: I heard the same from a friend who was with her daughter at a cheerleading competition in Atlanta. And she said when she came back, she said she couldn't believe how many bumper stickers she saw for Bernie Sanders and almost none for Hillary Clinton. This is not a scientific poll. OK?

The other thing is in her speech, she's talking about how basically she's saying that whites have it better because the law protects them more or works in their favor. But no one has considered themselves more above the law than Hillary Clinton.

If you look at, for example, on the e-mail scandal, she made a decision that was just flying in the face of federal law, classified information. And she believes that she's done nothing wrong. She actually considers herself so above the law.

The other thing is to Eric's point. It's such a good one about the economy and what's happened in the last eight years. And I hope that everyone is being very honest about the future. Because it's not going to get easier to create jobs for lower income folks with the technologies that are coming online now that are disrupting manufacturing and even some white collar jobs now, and service oriented jobs. This is not going to get easier. We have to have someone that is really honest about what's going to happen globally and also here.

RIVERA: I don't disagree either. This is retail politics, though. I'm talking just demographics, just numbers, just practical, I want to be elected.

RIVERA: Isn't she -- isn't she on the right track to get the votes she needs among people of color?

SHILLUE: I don't know. They're only going one way. To Bernie. Because did you see that rally? I mean, it seems like his heart is in it. I was not convinced by her at all. She better get...

RIVERA: A white crowd.

SHILLUE: ... people like Bill Clinton.

RIVERA: Largely a white crowd.

PERINO: Did you see what Bill Clinton said in Memphis? About being the first, the true first black president? And the genome project? I mean, come on. I don't think the answer is sending in Bill Clinton.

RIVERA: We all come from the -- the cavern (ph) in Africa. We do. We do. He's right. We're all right. Six degrees of separation.

Yes. And they still like Bill more than Hillary.


RIVERA: At least they did until Trump emasculated Clinton brilliantly.

Got to go. Apple going to war with the federal government about being forced to help the FBI unlock phone of one of the San Bernardino terrorists. Why the company says it is not going to comply when "The Five" returns.


PERINO: Is Apple putting itself above the safety and security of the American people? The company is vowing to fight an order by a federal judge to help the FBI unlock the phone of one of the San Bernardino terrorists.

In a letter to customers, CEO Tim Cook said, "It would be wrong for the government to force to build a back door into our products."

The FBI's director, James Comey, said last week the agency doesn't want back door access to devices. It just wants the company to comply with counterterror requests.


JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: A big problem for law enforcement armed with a search warrant when you find a device that can't be opened, even though the judge said there's probable cause to open it.

As I said, it affects our counterterrorism work. It's not about us trying to get a back door, a term that confuses me frankly. I don't want a door or a window or I don't want a sliding glass door. I would like people to comply with court orders.


PERINO: So K.G., the company is saying that they have bigger concerns. They have a global customer base, and so they're just thinking for the long term in the interests of everybody. But...

GUILFOYLE: Well, grow up and keep American safe, Apple. I'm going back to Blackberry. You guys suck and might as well be, like, uninvited co- conspirators. It's a specific request. He's not saying create something on everyone's device to get in the back door. They're saying when we prepare this and had this motion signed by a judge, asking you to comply with a request for counterterrorism, honor it. Thank you.

BOLLING: Very cogent and passionate, but I think you're wrong in this respect.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm not, and I'm a lawyer.

BOLLING: Maybe Comey doesn't really understand it. The way the encryption works is there isn't one. There's no way in unless...

GUILFOYLE: Lying. Lying.

BOLLING: Apple is lying?


BOLLING: Well, whatever. Assume they're not lying, because we can't assume everyone's lying in this, especially under court -- federal court order to -- to prove you're not. But if you create the way in for the iPhone which they -- which they put together the phone that there was no way in in 2015.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, they can get in quickly (ph). You know that, right?

BOLLING: ... solve the crime at hand. And everyone wants that crime at hand solved.

But if you do create that, that means that that back door is now available as a master key to every single iPhone. If it got in the wrong hands, your financial records, your medical records, your personal data.

RIVERA: Edward Snowden. Edward Snowden.

BOLLING: From afar.

RIVERA: Edward Snowden. Exactly what he said. Edward Snowden shows there are no secrets. Secrets eventually all leak out. They create the back door. The vulnerability for everyone with an iPhone. Guess what? Edward Snowden Jr. leaks it, and it destroys the privacy of everybody.

GUILFOYLE: There are hackers that could get in there right now. Why don't they just hack that phone?

RIVERA: Here's my suggestion. Let Apple do it. You get a -- let Apple do it.

BOLLING: They can do it tomorrow, if they...

RIVERA: Apple has protected its secrets impeccably, unlike the federal government. Apple creates the thing. Apple find their way into this guy's phone. And Apple says, "Here's what it says, government," without telling the government how they did it.

SHILLUE: Apple says they're not going to do it.

I think Apple is smart to resist, because everyone's all over -- if you look at my social media all day, congratulations to Apple, good for Apple.

GUILFOYLE: That's why Apple did it.

SHILLUE: I know. I think they'll do it eventually but they're going to show some resistance.

PERINO: In the meantime, don't the victims' families of the San Bernardino attack deserve a little bit more? I mean, wouldn't all of those leads gone cold by now?

GUILFOYLE: Don't the victims of the San Bernardino attack who were heinously murdered by these vicious terrorists, this is like a victory for is. They can get in right now. There's hackers right now that can do it.

Apple, you're so secure. Ask every actress on their iCloud with their photos being leaked and their nude pictures. Oh, you're impenetrable. You can get into this phone. OK? Let's not play around here.

GUILFOYLE: Because they're following the law.

PERINO: What if the FBI did that without following the law. That's why they went to a judge.

BOLLING: The law says, if the FBI can get in, they have that right.

GUILFOYLE: There are due process safeguards in place. And there has to be probable cause and a legal standard put forward to be able to do it. This is Apple

RIVERA: Our government cannot be trusted to safeguard people's privacy. It has shown to be...

GUILFOYLE: Apple is a private company. They're safeguarding.

BOLLING: ... to this back door. It's dangerous in the wrong hands. That's my point.

PERINO: Kimberly, if you're investigating this case, how do you track down who the terrorists were talking to if you can't get to their phone record?

GUILFOYLE: If I can't get into the phone. I make friends and romance a hacker and I get in and find a way to get it into the evidence.

PERINO: My point being that you can't prevent terrorist attacks.

SHILLUE: I would roll over.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, I can probably get into that phone quicker. Let me make a few calls during break.

SHILLUE: I can't believe we can't get into the phone. I'm amazed by that, that you can't get into the phone.

PERINO: And now all the terrorists know it. Well done.

All right. President Obama says his job is a serious one. Not for Donald Trump with his reality show past. The president has a few reality shows under his belt, too. We're going to open up the presidential archives next.


SHILLUE: President Obama weighed in on the presidential race again yesterday and still doesn't think Donald Trump is going to get his job.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Being president is a serious job. It's not hosting a talk show or a reality show. It's not promotion. It's not marketing. It's hard.


SHILLUE: It's hard. It's interesting the president should note how serious the job is when he's made quite a few appearances on reality shows and talk shows himself.


GLOZELL GREEN, BLOGGER: I have green-listed. Your first wife...

OBAMA: My first wife? Do you know something I don't?

ZACH GALIFIANAKIS, COMEDIAN: You sent Ambassador Rodman to North Korea on your behalf? I read that you'd be sending Hulk Hogan to Syria? Or is that more of a job for Tonya Harding?

OBAMA: He is not our ambassador.

The reason it's so important to keep down costs is so we keep college affordable.

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": And the president knows his stuff. That's why they call him the POTUS which means person on top -- what is it?

OBAMA: POTUS stands for president of the United States.

FALLON: He's the POTUS with the most-us.

OBAMA: Thanks, Obama.


SHILLUE: He's good. Those were good clips. He's funny. Right? I mean, he's played the pop culture game pretty well, hasn't he, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: He has. He's very good at it. He's quite masterful.

And guess what? That's what the Dems are used to. So now they're like, whoa! What happened? Took sexy and threw it out the door. It's not working so well now, is it.

RIVERA: I think he's so cool. I think he's very cool.

GUILFOYLE: Now they have Hillary.

RIVERA: I think he's being pretentious, though, about the job. It is -- of course, it's serious. He's got the world, the fate of the world at his fingertips. The office over history has moderated everyone who's every sat behind the desk in the Oval Office. It will moderate whether it's Trump or Clinton or Sanders or Cruz or Rubio. It has a great leveling effect.

SHILLUE: Yes, but so why is he criticizing? Why is he saying...

RIVERA: He hates Trump. If you're Obama, you hate Trump.

GUILFOYLE: Because they're doing their own internal polling, and they're worried about a Trump presidency and seeing that the reality is that he can beat Hillary Clinton.

SHILLUE: Isn't that what it is? How long -- this Democrat talking point of, oh, we would love to run against him.

BOLLING: Hillary Clinton on "Saturday Night Live" made a big the joke on, "Oh, we got Trump? Ha, ha, ha."

And now he's going, "We've got to get Trump."

President Obama, to say, "Oh, he's just a reality show host" or whatever he said, that's ridiculous. President Obama broke the mold. Everyone said, well, here's a guy who was basically born of the Internet. He was cooler, he was hipper, and now he's saying, well, that's not very presidential. Has he ever been presidential, Obama? Has he really? Let's be honest. Does that sound bad?


BOLLING: Really when, Geraldo...

RIVERA: ... various speeches. Very presidential.

BOLLING: When he decided to, with four draped bodies at Andrews Air Force Base, to blame the video, or when he decided to go golfing after...

RIVERA: You're talking about demeanor. You're talking about appropriate. You're arguing political coolness.

BOLLING: I don't think he is a typical presidential president. So the hypocrisy.

Bill Clinton played the saxophone. George W. Bush chopped wood.

SHILLUE: Does the office have dignity any longer and should it even have dignity?

PERINO: The office of the presidency, of course, has dignity. One of the things that brought George W. Bush to win in 2000 was a promise to restore dignity to the office.

The other thing, though, I want to say about this is what President Obama has done on those is, in those appearances, especially the "Between Two Ferns," he has utilized them to achieve a political goal or an outcome, a political outcome that he was looking for. So I don't think it was frivolous, his appearances. And he's obviously very good at it. So whatever your strength is, you use that to advance your position.

GUILFOYLE: Advance your position like March Madness, baby.

SHILLUE: "One More Thing" is next.


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." Dana kicks it off.

PERINO: OK. So did you miss me yet?


PERINO: Just kidding. I was away and then I was on a plane and we were circling around forever, so I didn't make it yesterday. I wanted to say thank you to Savannah. The Savannah Book Festival was amazing. Anybody here who has books? Jasper came. He was a huge hit. But it's such a professionally run festival. But I think that you guys would be huge hits there. You should take your books there next year if you can.

BOLLING: Was he...

PERINO: Yes, Jasper was a big hit. But then that night, then this happened on the Hannity show.


GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm a sensitive artist now. And these paintings of yours will be worth something.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: I saw the one you did of Dana Perino's puppy, Jasper.

BUSH: Jasper liked it.

HANNITY: I think so. I think Dana liked it, too.

Did you draw one of your brother yet?

BUSH: Not yet.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm waiting. I'm waiting for him to get out of his primitive period.


PERINO: That's the painting that President Bush did of Jasper. It's my only cherished possession. Like, if the house is burning down, you save the painting.

GUILFOYLE: Not Peter? Oh, Peter. I would save you. So a German short- haired pointer named C.J. won best in show at the 140th Westminster Kennel Club dog show in New York yesterday. Besting more than 2,700 contestants over the two-day competition. Did you know this? That this is the second longest continuously running sporting event in the United States behind the Kentucky Derby. Isn't that a nice little beautiful dog?

RIVERA: Looks like a different dogs head is superimposed on him.

BOLLING: I've got to go. This is my turn. Don't forget to watch tonight's special edition of "The O'Reilly Factor." We have a blockbuster program, which includes a unique look at the controversy surrounding -- everyone is talking about today, surrounding Apple defying a court order and refusing to help the FBI hack into the iPhone used by the San Bernardino terrorists. Take a listen.


BOLLING: Let me ask you this: Do you really want it? That information is sitting right there for the feds to have in that device. Do you really want it unaccessible to the feds? To solve a crime, solve a terror attack?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say yes. And the reason why I say yes is because I think that you can work around, that the government, homeland security, the FBI, whoever it is, can work around that encryption issue.


BOLLING: Those security experts, also Karl Rove and Monica Crowley. That and much more in a special issue of "The O'Reilly Factor," protecting America tonight at 8 p.m.

All right, Geraldo.

GUILFOYLE: They agree with me.

RIVERA: Oh, Donald Trump's reality show background. He, on the other hand, embraces it. I interviewed him in the spin room Saturday night in South Carolina. Here he is.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm actually a unifier. I bring people together. You're one of the people, because you understand. You're a champion. You were a champion on "The Apprentice," believe me. You were a champion, and you are a champion.

I bring people together, and I pride myself on that. And President Obama as an African-American has not brought people together.


RIVERA: Definitely insightful.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. You are a champion. You really, really stuck it to him.

SHILLUE: How do you get to Lincoln Center? Practice, practice, practice. Here's me singing with my friend, Jimmy Fallon last Thursday at Lincoln Central.




SHILLUE: I know we need some better video. That was a cell phone. It wasn't taped, because it was a special tribute to Lorne Michaels.

GUILFOYLE: That was a violation?

SHILLUE: It was. It was an illegal cell phone, I think. Can we show that on here?

PERINO: You're really good. That's amazing. Was that a big show for you, Lincoln Center?

RIVERA: I love the outfit.

GUILFOYLE: Congratulations.

SHILLUE: Amazing. We all have to learn our part. Everybody is equal on that stage.

GUILFOYLE: You're recession proof.

BOLLING: That's it for us. Don't forget: "Special Report" up next.

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