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The Five

Scalia's death sets off battle over nomination of successor

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 15, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. Happy
Presidents Day, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric
Bolling, Meghan McCain and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City
and this is "The Five."

This weekend, the America lost one of the most influential and respected
justices to ever sit on the Supreme Court. Antonin Scalia spent three
decades defending liberty and the constitution on the high bench. His body
hasn't flown back to Virginia. Funeral plans have not yet been announced.
His death has now triggered a monumental election year battle between
Congress and a president in his final year in office. The Senate Majority
Leader Mitch McConnell says, "The American people should have a voice in
who should fill the vacancy by letting the next president decide." But
President Obama says he intends to nominate a justice after the Senate
returns from recess. Scalia was a leading conservative voice on the bench.
His passing could drastically alter the balance of power on the court. In
2012, the justice himself spoke to Fox News about who would one day succeed
him and he had this wish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIN SCALIA, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED
STATES: I would not like to be replaced by someone who immediately sets
about undoing everything that I've tried to do for 25 years, 26 years.
Sure. But I mean I shouldn't have to tell you that. Unless you think I'm a
fool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Always witty, always brilliant, Eric, truly a monumental loss
for this country, one of the greatest legal scholars in the world.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: And monumental loss for the
conservative movement. The guy was by the book. And also, on a personal
note before we get into the politic, what a great man too. KG, you and I --
it would be an honor to meet him a couple times at the White House
correspondence dinner.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: And I'll tell you what he would do. He would talk to you. There
are people who will talk to you and spend time with you because they have
to. When Antonin Scalia talked to you, shook your hand he talked -- he
listened to you, and that's amazing. It didn't matter if you were on TV or
if someone he bumped into in the hallway. When you got his attention, you
got his attention. He was a great --

GUILFOYLE: He was fully engaged.

BOLLING: Fully engaged, great guy that way.

Textualist, meaning he interpreted the constitution for the word that was
written not in a, in sort of living, breathing constitution that a lot of
liberals want to do now. President Obama likes to use that -- the pen, the
executive power to go around some of the things that are written in the
constitution. What Antonin Scalia did was make sure that the 5-4 majority
interpreted the constitution by the word, which is what we hope will happen
going forward.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Talk a little bit about the political piece as well,
because now there's a big statement saying that there, you know, President
Obama's going to make a nomination regardless and tremendous instant
pushback, you know, from the right. And conservative movements saying this
is not appropriate.

BOLLING: Politics, here it is. So republicans have the risk of looking like
obstructionists if they do what Ted Cruz said, we're going to filibuster
and we're going to turn down anyone that they put up. The smart thing, in
my opinion, would be to take whoever President Obama decides to nominate
and take your time with it. And take your time within and if it's not the
right person, don't put him in there. Remember, if you're perceived as
obstructionists, as republicans, President Obama gets an appointment now.
And a democrat president will get -- likely get the next appointment with -
- if Ruth Bader Ginsburg steps aside at some point. So you have to be
careful how you play it politically.

GUILFOYLE: You certainly do -- Greg, your reflection.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well -- this whole -- the way this
unfolded is a testament to the state of our country. Before this great man
had gone cold, the politics had already unfurled like a noxious gas. I
mean, it really is amazing how quickly it happened. Both sides are guilty
in this regard. I think that this is a very -- this is one of the most
important battles for republicans and for conservatives. Unfortunately, it
is also a boring battle for America. America does not pay attention to
these things. They get a lot of their legal advice from the good wife. They
don't put -- they don't follow this stuff. They're not -- they don't
realize how important this is. And I think that for the republicans, look,
it's inevitable that President Obama is going to nominate somebody. And you
-- because that's exactly what you would do. And telling him he can't is
like telling a boxer not to hit you in the face. This is he's going to do
it. So the question is how can you be persuasive? What we've learned is
that if you're a republican and you nominate somebody, you're going to get
borked. But if you're a democrat and you nominate somebody, if somebody is
critical of you, you are accused of smearing that person of being a bully.

MEGHAN MCCAIN, GUEST CO-HOST: Yes.

GUTFELD: So you have to learn to be persuasively correct. You need to be
able to marshal the facts.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: And engage, engage in these hearings, so you don't come off bad.
But you -- you're able to expose whether this is an ideologue, a left-wing
ideologue.

MCCAIN: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Meghan.

MCCAIN: Yeah. I mean, just going off on that point, I read this quote
earlier today. Chuck Schumer, in 2007 said that if there is any new Supreme
Court vacancies opened up, democrats should only allow Bush to fill it,
except in extreme circumstances. So in 2007, when it's under President
Bush, it's OK. But under President Obama, they think they should nominate
someone new and it should go through. Just timing-wise, is President Obama
have this amount of time from what I understand it takes three months
looking to the background checks and then three months of hearings.
President Obama doesn't have this much time left. I actually think this
will change the (inaudible) in this election, ultimately. And I hope people
actually paying more attention than you're saying. I think having the
leading conservative voice and defender of conservativism on the Supreme
Court passing in his way; actually will change the tide in a lot of ways.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he is so powerful, a tour de force on the bench. And just
you know, to read his opinion especially of being a lawyer in prosecuting -
- getting so much insight and valuable knowledge, just in the way he
drafted his opinions and the amount of time that he put into them. And also
Juan, he was incredibly well respected by those that he served on the bench
with and that many have come out and made those statements.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Oh sure, I mean. He's good buddies
with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Which his ideological opponent from someone from the left. And
they famously would spend New Year's Eve, I think it was together. But
also, you know, I mean, he's the kind of guy I -- you know, when Kagan --
Elena Kagan came on the court, he took her skeet shooting. So I mean he's
the kind of person you get along with. Let me tell you, he's a devout
Christian, real family guy, father of nine, I think he had 28
grandchildren. And he loved his sons, I mean.

GUILFOYLE: A son who was a priest. He was at St. Joseph's Catholic Church.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And he's got other sons who are in the lead profession. So he's
He's not only -- I mean, not only would you say from the conservative point
of view that he's an icon. But you would say it from the perspective of
people who knew him, that he was a lovable guy and he was good man.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I think if you look back at the history on the court, the key
thing for me is that he changed the way people discuss the law at the
Supreme Court. Not necessarily through coalition building, Kimberly,
because he wasn't much on building, even with other conservatives. He
oftentimes was at odds with like Sandra Day O'Connor or Justice Kennedy,
especially when it came to things like affirmative action, abortion. He
always thought that women don't have a right to have an abortion, it's the
right in the constitution, and he lost that with his fellow conservs (ph),
that's why we still have Roe v. Wade. But he -- the one big case he won and
wrote was Heller, which is the gun rights case out of D.C., and I think he
leaves a legacy there. But as I was saying, suddenly people all discuss the
law and the Supreme Court's rulings in terms of the intent of the founders.
What was written in the constitution? That's where we come back to Eric's
point about originalism and strict construction. And that's why Ronald
Reagan and Ed Meese put him on the court, that's what they said at the
time. We're sick of the Warren Court and the liberal activist judges who
create rights were either in terms of civil rights or women's rights or gay
rights. I mean, Scalia, maybe also because of the religious thing was
dismissive of the idea of gay rights. He said that was the gay agenda being
perpetrated by a, you know, a law culture in this country that just adopted
gay rights and invented the rights. I don't agree with him, but that's what
they have said.

GUILFOYLE: Well he's facing his statements on the constitution. And what's
provided for in there. First is other people saying, trying to draft --

WILLIAMS: Well, there's no right for you to vote.

GUILFOYLE: . create or draft rights for people --

WILLIAMS: But I'm saying there's no right for you to vote.

BOLLING: And also --

GUTFELD: That was a good part of it --

WILLIAMS: That was a good part.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: We didn't want Kimberly to vote at all.

GUILFOYLE: Honestly.

GUTFELD: No voting for Kimberly.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUILFOYLE: I tend to vote multiple times -- really quick, yeah.

BOLLING: I know you gonna comment - very quickly. Scalia did at some point
realize that he wasn't going to win that battle. And he said he would want
the states to decide these things.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Independently.

WILLIAMS: Yes. So he was a state's rights. And by the way, I mean, you
know, state's rights after the civil rights --

BOLLING: I'm talking about abortion and gay marriage and --

WILLIAMS: But you're exactly right.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, Scalia's death instantly reshaped the
presidential race, as we've been discussing. And GOP candidates are urging
the president to hold off on a nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president should allow
the next president to appoint the justice in the Supreme Court.

JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you shift the court's philosophy
to the left, you're going to have a devastating impact on the thing, the
liberties that Antonin Scalia believed in.

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a great intellect. We
need --I say, absolutely conservative. But the real -- I think the real
plan for it would be somebody just like Justice Scalia.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: You're gonna filibuster anyone,
anyone that President Obama nominates?

SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely. This should be a
decision for the people. Let the election decide. If the democrats want to
replace this nominee, they need to win the election.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUILFOYLE: The Democratic candidates argue otherwise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is outrageous that
Republicans in the Senate and on the campaign trail have already pledged to
block any replacement that President Obama nominates. Barack Obama is
president of the United States until January 20th, 2017.

(APPLAUSE)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we
want a full contingent on the United States Supreme Court. They are dealing
with enormously important issues. The constitution is pretty clear. The
president makes the appointment, Senate confirms, let's get on with that
business.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUILFOYLE: Win the presidential race, and then you can determine it --
Greg.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, if that -- yeah, maybe in a perfect world, but no.
President Obama still can do what he wants. And let's face it, if you were
in his situation, you would do the same thing. So Obama will probably
nominate and the republicans need to deal with it. But this is exactly why
you have to win elections. It's why voting emotionally in the eye of the
establishment only feeds your adversary, you need somebody who can win, not
somebody who can whine. This is why you have to win the White House.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And you have to put it up the right way, which is not a
recess appointment because he's been smacked down on that before
(inaudible) vote when he tried to do a recess appointment, claiming that
the --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: . it wasn't in session, but in fact, they say that they were
still in session. So, you know, put it up for a fair vote, let's see what
happens. As Meghan said, there was a tremendous like vetting process that
has to go in addition to the hearing.

MCCAIN: Yeah. And even if Obama can nominate, the Senate will ultimately
decide. And if it ends up being filibustered, like Senator Cruz said, then
it's going to be entirely -- this whole thing, it's gonna be so
politicized. It's really tragic given this man's history and legacy on the
Supreme Court. I don't see anybody passing on either side until there's a
new electorate. And I agree, I let the electorate decide but --

GUTFELD: It's like -- we need -- this is like a three ring circus that has
now gone four rings. You know what I mean?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: It's added a whole another layer to the next -- whatever, eight,
nine months.

WILLIAMS: But here is that I don't understand.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling --

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, you say let the American people decide? The
American people decided twice, Obama is the president, and it's what you
say, Greg. So he gets to nominate -- to nominate someone, the Senate has
been for its role.

MCCAIN: So can Chuck Schumer --

WILLIAMS: Admit to what he said too.

GUILFOYLE: Wait. Can Chuck Schumer come back out then and say that it's OK?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Schumer has been playing politics.

BOLLING: You know what, let's be really honest. Schumer did say that. And
the republicans pushed back, you remember that? So there's both sides are
being hypocritical with this respect. I think it's really important what
Greg want to they say here. You can't look like the Ted Cruz, we're not --

WILLIAMS: Oh.

BOLLING: Forget it. We're going to stop this in its tracks. You have to
play this right. So if President Obama wants to put up someone that comes
from the left, but is at least moderately on the left, the appellate court
judge in D.C., Sri Srinivasan, Srinivasan.

WILLIAMS: yeah, correct.

BOLLING: This guy -- he worked for --

WILLIAMS: Of course.

BOLLING: As a conservative --

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: Conservative judge in the past.

WILLIAMS: And 97 to nothing.

BOLLING: But listen, otherwise --

WILLIAMS: Ninety-seven to nothing, America

BOLLING: Otherwise you risk this.

WILLIAMS: That was the vote in the Senate to confirm him for the D.C. --

BOLLING: You risk -- you put up a filibuster and everyone in the world says
I'm not going to vote republican this time, you're going to end up with a
democrat in the White House, you're going to get another Supreme Court
justice leaving probably over the next 4 to 8 years, I would guess. And
then the most important part, the appellate judge, the appointments to the
appellate, right? That comes from -- at the behest of the president.

WILLIAMS: Right, right.

BOLLING: Right? So the president -- that's really where the most -- where
the rubber meets the road.

GUTFELD: What if --

BOLLING: If this is (inaudible).

GUTFELD: What if he nominates Eric Holder?

WILLIAMS: Well, that wouldn't work. You see that would -- that explain to
republican hands.

GUILFOYLE: That will never --

MCCAIN: Yeah.

BOLLING: Right.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Because that would be such political world.

GUILFOYLE: Get ready for a lot of green eggs and ham (inaudible) yeah,
because they'll --

BOLLING: Right.

GUILFOYLE: They'll blow of us to that to the end of time.

All right, well Justice Scalia left an indelible mark on American history
and he will forever be remembered. In my opinion, sir, you are quite simply
irreplaceable.

More to come on "The Five," we're back in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCALIA: I, Antonin Scalia, do solemnly swear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That I will support and defend the constitution of the
United States.

SCALIA: That I will support and defend the constitution of the United
States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So help me God.

SCALIA: So help me God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I congratulate you.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: We're five days away from the next contest in the GOP race and he
fight for South Carolina has turned into an all out bloodbath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: Ted Cruz has just been telling lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

He lied about Ben Carson in Iowa. He lies about (inaudible). He lies about
marriage. He's lying about all sorts of things.

TRUMP: Are you probably are worse than Jeb Bush. You are the single biggest
liar.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: He called me a liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Blows have exchange from the republican debate stage, Saturday
night. Donald Trump certainly fired up the crowd and his opponents when he
took aim at the legacy of the last republican president -- George W.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Obviously, the war in Iraq was a big fat mistake. George Bush
married a mistake, they lied.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

TRUMP: They said there were weapons of mass destruction, there were none,
and they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, all right.

(BELL RINGS)

BUSH: Well, Donald Trump was building a reality TV show. My brother was
building a security apparatus to keep us safe. And I'm proud of what he
did.

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO: I thank God all the time that it was George W. Bush in the White
House on 9/11 and not Al Gore.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: The World Trade Center came down during the reign.

CROWD: Boo.

TRUMP: He kept us safe? That's not safe.

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: The World Trade Center came down because Bill Clinton didn't kill
Osama bin Laden when he had the chance to kill him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right KG, so --

GUILFOYLE: Gloves off.

BOLLING: Gloves are off. There was -- gloves (inaudible) all over the
place. It was interesting.

GUILFOYLE: Like WWF --

MCCAIN: It's like a hockey game.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, it's like UFC fighting championship, I don't know. I
mean, everybody was taking hits at one another. And we can prove that they
were going to do that with South Carolina before that. You know Cruz shall
have to say, we're going to get after one another, and they did.

BOLLING: OK. Meghan, what are your --

MCCAIN: Yeah.

BOLLING: Your thoughts on.

MCCAIN: On all of it?

BOLLING: No holds barred (inaudible)?

MCCAIN: I think Trump focusing on George W. Bush and 9/11 is ill-advised.
George W. Bush has a 77 approval rating, nationally with republicans. He's
very well liked. Bush family is very well liked in South Carolina. I don't
understand where they were because it sounded like a hockey game to me.
There's so much bling. Actually, I found it destructive.

GUILFOYLE: They said it was stacked that they have.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: . in terms of who was in the audience.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The way it works is, Juan, you can attest to this that the RNC
gives out the tickets on.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: . on who gets to represent whom.

WILLIAMS: Trump is mad about that.

BOLLING: Well, he brought his family.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BOLLING: . and others I guess brought donors. Is that what it is?

WILLIAMS: They bring donors -- yeah, they were -- the RNC rewards the
donors.

GUTFELD: Here's what I got, 1600 tickets. There were 600 given, split them
on candidates. So I guess they got like 100 each or something like that.
There are 300 (inaudible), there are 10 RNC donors. So I think --

WILLIAMS: They had more than that, believe me.

GUTFELD: Well, that's what I got. That's the facts that I got.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, you know about it. It make a half of it.

GUTFELD: I think Trump was good when he said that it was a mistake,
perhaps? But when he said that Bush lied, that's pure code pink territory,
he could have been at the democratic debate at that point, he out-Sander
Sandered -- Sanders. And the fact is, I mean, if anybody else said that on
the democratic side or libertarian had said that in a congressional
election, we would be all over them.

BOLLING: Although, the CBS did a poll afterwards. Now they said Rubio won,
they said Trump came in second.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: George Bush -- Jeb Bush came in last, believe it.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: But it didn't vary his -- Trump's poll numbers. He stilled polled.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But it's still wrong. It's a -- I mean, I'd be interested to know
if Donald Trump had facts that backup that George Bush lied. How does he
know that George Bush lied?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's too strong. I mean, even democrats.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: I think that's a little bit much.

GUTFELD: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That's what I'm saying. She should have been on the democratic
debate.

WILLIAMS: You had -- not only Colin Powell and the rest of the
administration, you had people who were in the Senate.

GUTFELD: And also Trump -- as 42,000 said there were WMD's in Iraq.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: . that's what he said in his book.

WILLIAMS: But I --

MCCAIN: He has the support of the CIA, his cabinet, the U.N. Dozens of
coalition countries. I agree that it's a very old liberal talking point.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: Or tonight they have thrown something out there. Maybe it's in
advance of him, Donald Trump knowing that George W. Bush was going to
campaign for Jeb Bush, two days later.

GUILFOYLE: Well, of course. That's what he is doing. Because it's going to
be a big presence there, they've done very well in South Carolina. Bush
family is very well-liked. And yeah, bring your brother out, you should.
Because of the approval ratings, like Meghan has discussed. So of course,
he's gonna hit him. That's a strategic move to try and weaken and diminish
the impact of that kind of endorsement, which is powerful, especially in
that particular area of the country.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But again, is Glenn Greenwald said that, we would go ape crazy
about it, and we're not because it's Trump, that's hypocrisy at its purest
form.

WILLIAMS: I will say this in wrapping up. I was surprised at the ferocity
of that debate, more than any. Because I think now, you see the Republican
Party. They've got the daggers out for each other. And people are saying
they like Cruz, Cruz is called a liar.

BOLLING: Let's do this. Let's do this. I give -- speaking of Cruz.

WILLIAMS: OK.

BOLLING: This is great. And one of the other dramatic moments from the
debate was the new clash between Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz over the records
on immigration. Rubio challenged Cruz on his Espanol skills. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: Ted Cruz on the committee hearing, very passionately said, "I want
immigration reform to pass. I want people to be able to come out of the
shadows." So either he wasn't telling the truth then or he isn't telling
the truth now.

CRUZ: Marco went on Univision in Spanish and said he would not rescind
President Obama's illegal executive amnesty on his first day on office.

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO: I don't know how he knows what I said on Univision, because he
doesn't speak Spanish. And second of all, the other point out --

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: In Espanol they get it.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: (inaudible).

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: I love it. Muy bien. Muy bien. Yeah, I mean this is so -- I
mean, it's kind of funny, you got to admit. And then he fires back and he's
speaking Spanish and then (inaudible) --

WILLIAMS: I mean, school yard. Total school yard. The thing I would --

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Juan loves it.

WILLIAMS: I love it because it just seems so -- it seems so petty to me at
some level, you know. But the other thing was, Cruz went on, coming back to
early discussion about the Supreme Court, and says, oh, he wouldn't have
put Chief Justice Roberts in the court. He supported Roberts, what is he
talking about?

BOLLING: And Meghan.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's not.

BOLLING: . at one point.

GUILFOYLE: . that's the Obamacare.

BOLLING: At one point Cruz accused Rubio of lying on immigration.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: Rubio, Cruz accused -- Cruz lying on immigration. Jeb Bush today
said -- think that they're both right.

MCCAIN: Yeah, they keep going back and forth to this. This isn't the first
time they've done this in a debate. And I think the American publics are
still confused at where each of these gentlemen stands. I think they should
just come out and say what they would do about immigration and make it very
clear, instead of retrying to rehash their past. I actually thought Ted
Cruz wasn't as good this debate. Normally, you know, he was so fantastic in
a lot of debate. And I think he has the -- I actually thought the Spanish
coming back seems a little petty and just be strong, be direct. You're a
former, you know, amazing debate coach from Harvard. And I actually found
him to be petty and a little more emotional than I expected.

GUTFELD: It would be better if he came back with pig Latin.

WILLIAMS: One last quick on --

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: We should say something good about Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio was
on the floor (inaudible). I think a lot of people think he did well on a
Saturday night.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: he did comeback.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Nobody said about Kasich or Carson.

GUILFOYLE: Because they're boring.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Because Ben Carson is wasting my time.

GUTFELD: Is that our fault, though?

BOLLING: No.

GUTFELD: Is that our fault? Yes, it is. We could say -- we are punishing
people who are boring.

WILLIAMS: Oh, oh, OK. You win.

MCCAIN: You know, Ben Carson also, he's not like he's reading a Wikipedia
and turn page every time he's talking about foreign policy. And I put --

GUTFELD: Yeah (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I got to do this. There is an amazing --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I talked about before here. It's called the circus and it was
Halperin and Heilemann and one other guy who are inside the camp --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Are inside all the campaigns on the inside now. They went through
the very last minute on Sunday night. They took it all the way to Saturday
night. It's amazing what you see these people doing behind the scenes --
KG.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I haven't seen that in particulars -- I'm admitting to
watching it, though because you and Dana gave it amazing endorsements. But
I think you really do have to watch some things like that to get more the
behind the scenes kind of the reality of the situation of what goes on. So
you have a greater understanding, yeah.

BOLLING: To what else driving is, John Kasich said, "I'm not going negative
on anything."

MCCAIN: Right.

BOLLING: He said, "I'm going positive across the board."

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He did quite well in New Hampshire. So I mean he wasn't expected
to do well in South Carolina. I think it's gonna be very interesting
opinion.

WILLIAMS: Don't you think he doesn't have the money to go negative,
remember?

BOLLING: Well, I guess. If he did well, he would get some money, your
thoughts on staying positive on a --

GUTFELD: Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm always confused by all these
right-wingers who spent years railing against rhinos and squishee. They're
now embracing a code pink trade warning centrist. That is mind blowing to
me. It's like how can you sit there and go like, OK, GW Bush is a war
criminal. The guy that -- that is in front of everybody else is calling
Bush a war criminal. If you lied to get into war, you're a war criminal.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's though. But you know what, a lot of people --

GUTFELD: That's what he said.

WILLIAMS: Right. But a lot of people --

GUTFELD: He said, you lied and knew about it.

WILLIAMS: A lot of people --

GUTFELD: that's pretty, pretty harsh.

WILLIAMS: I said, I said much for me. And I'm sitting here, you know.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: But I'm telling you, a lot of people think Donald Trump opens up
the bag and says things that others won't say.

GUTFELD: What connect that?

WILLIAMS: . conversations that people won't have, and that may include
republicans having to come to terms with this to move on.

BOLLING: All right, we're gonna leave it right there. The next contest for
the democrats is also.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . five days away in Nevada. And Bernie Sanders is vowing to pull
off another win. That race, plus SNL's take on Hillary Clinton's campaign
troubles when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIDY BRYANT, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I like Hillary's
foreign policy experience, but I love Bernie's whole vibe.

TARAN KILLAM, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I'm obsessed with
Bernie's vibe.

KATE MCKINNON, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" (singing): I can't
make you love me if you don't.

KYLE MOONEY, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Bernie is the best.

MCKINNON (singing): You can't make your heart feel something it won't.

VANESSA BAYER, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": Bernie is change.

BRYANT: I like when Bernie yells, but not when Hillary does.

MCKINNON (singing): I can't make you love me if you don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: "Saturday Night Live" couldn't resist mocking Hillary Clinton's
likability problems with young voters. She can't make them love her,
they're turning out in droves for Bernie Sanders instead. He's vowing to
score another state victory at the Nevada caucuses on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We
surprised them in Iowa. We surprised them in New Hampshire. We're going
to surprise them here in Nevada.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: All right. The big question now is, can Bernie actually pull it
out in Nevada?

GUTFELD: That sounds strange. In Nevada, especially.

MCCAIN: God.

GUTFELD: So anyway...

MCCAIN: That's vile.

GUTFELD: Hillary is unlikeable. Bernie is lovable. Is that a basis for
choice? Between the two, you have to ask, who is the realist? And we know
that Bernie is an idealist, and nothing that he talks about will actually
happen.

If you have to pick between the two, at least Hillary seems like she might
have some idea that there's evil outside the United States. It's not just
our inequal society, even though she panders in that way.

But the Democratic fight is a great mirror for conservatives who see -- who
can't see their own emotionalism and ego in their own choices. Sanders is
making an emotional proclamation for revolution, unmoored to fact. That is
what is also happening with Trump.

I think Trump regrets not running in the Democratic Party, because he would
kill both of these people. He's an anti-war, strong on defense trade war
warrior. He would do better there.

MCCAIN: Eric.

BOLLING: So I did a little homework over the weekend. I realized that,
you know, people are talking about, well, you know, Hillary Clinton has
this major delegate lead. Well, she got smoked in New Hampshire. I'm
trying to figure it out.

Turns out here's the way it works on the Democrat side only, not on the
Republican side. The Democrat super delegates don't have to go according
to the popular vote. So you can literally lose the popular vote, turn or
flip a couple of super delegates, and win the nomination.

And the Republican side there are super -- not nearly as many super
delegates, but super delegates, and they have to go according to what the -
- they have to mirror what goes on in the popular vote.

So it doesn't matter all these issues that they're arguing about. Their
books are so cooked, you might as well just name Hillary Clinton. She's
going to be the Democrat nominee. No matter what happens, even if Bernie
caucuses well in Nevada, it's not going to matter. Even if he beats her in
Nevada.

GUILFOYLE: He should be screaming about that. It's so unfair.

BOLLING: It's true. But I'm trying to figure out why no one is.

GUILFOYLE: They're the party that steals votes.

BOLLING: I mean, the DNC -- the DNC has been playing games with the debate
schedule and adding debates and lifting debates, depending on how they're
going to make her look good. They just really -- the rules are so cooked.
They've got her. They've got their nominee. You're looking at her, folks,
right there.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, no matter what, that's the outcome. You know, whether or
not she can, you know, smooth talk, smooth love the young voters, it's not
happening. I mean, they're...

GUTFELD: Are you wearing the same thing?

GUILFOYLE: That's true. These are actually pants if you get the shot
below. Skinny man tights like Bolling.

WILLIAMS: I think -- I think you wear it well.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. Thank you, Juan.

GUTFELD: Better than me?

WILLIAMS: I was talking about the dress, my friend.

GUTFELD: Oh, OK.

WILLIAMS: I don't know what you do in private.

But I will say this. I think this is really about the Latino vote.

MCCAIN: Minority vote, yes.

WILLIAMS: No, the Latino vote.

BOLLING: The Latino vote.

WILLIAMS: The Latino vote in Nevada. I think that's where -- the first
time that the candidates get to focus on a Latino message. So Thursday
night, Telemundo, they're going to have a debate, and it's going to be
focused on the immigration issue.

Now, earlier in the show, we saw the immigration issue back and forth
between Cruz and Rubio and how it plays out on the Republicans side. But
on the Democratic side, I think this is really intriguing to me.

Hillary has all the structure, all the big names, all the super delegate
types. They're all in her corner. Bernie has not had a chance to get in
there. I happened to have seen Bernie give a speech to a Latino group in
Las Vegas. He did not do well, because guess what?

For the most part, they're family people, hardworking, small business
people. They're not the revolution, Gregory.

GUTFELD: No.

WILLIAMS: This is what you were saying.

GUILFOYLE: Or for socialism.

WILLIAMS: I don't think -- you get outside of some of these, the young
people precincts, where it's like...

GUTFELD: They're just trying to make a living.

WILLIAMS: And they want someone who says, you know what? They understand,
I want to be in America, because I see America is a land of opportunity.
And I don't think Bernie buys into that.

MCCAIN: I think -- they just get out of white demographics in general.
That's when Bernie really starts, you know, feeling his burn, I guess. But
it will be interesting to see one way or another how this plays out.

Still to come -- still to come, more proof that ISIS is an existential
threat with capabilities worse than we thought. Some very disturbing news
from our CIA director on the terror network, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Last night on "60 Minutes," a show that lasts an hour, CIA
Director John Brennan admits ISIS has chemical weapons and he expects them
to use them on us:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PELLEY, CBS NEWS: Does ISIS have chemical weapons?

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: We have a number of instances where ISIL has
used chemical munitions on the battlefield.

PELLEY: Artillery shells?

BRENNAN: Sure.

PELLEY: ISIS has access to chemical artillery shells?

BRENNAN: Yes. There are reports that ISIS has access to chemical precursors and munitions that they can use.

PELLEY: And the capability of exporting those chemicals to the West?

BRENNAN: I think there's always a potential for that. I think ISIL does want to eventually find its mark here.

PELLEY: You're expecting an attack in the United States?

BRENNAN: I'm expecting them to try to put in place the operatives, the material, or whatever else that they need to do, or to incite people to carry out these attacks, clearly. So I believe that their attempts are inevitable. I don't think their successes necessarily are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: OK. But this is worse: Brennan implies that we cannot stop ISIS until they attack us. Not because we lack the ability, but because we lack the reason. Meaning we need a mountain of American corpses first, then we're going to show you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRENNAN: If there was a major attack here and we had ISIS fingerprints on it, certainly, this would encourage us to be even more forceful in terms of what it is that we need to do.

PELLEY: If our policy after an attack in the United States would be to be more forceful. Why isn't that
our policy now, before an attack?

BRENNAN: I think we're being as forceful as we can be in making sure that we're being surgical, though, as well. What we don't want to do is to alienate others within that region and have any type of indiscriminate actions that are going to lead to deaths of additional civilians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So there you have it: Rules of engagement, which is code for put them before us. It's not only preventing us from stopping ISIS, it's paving the way for its inevitable attack against our own country.

Imagine a cop saying to you, "We can't help you out until that crazy guy murders your family. Then by all means, call us." That's the logic and it's brought to you by the hyper-tolerant folks behind Islamophobia-phobia. This is not wait and see. It's wait and die. And it's not a moral stance, nor one that protects America. It's a stance that leads to the death of your loved ones. And it's not going to be small. It won't be San Bernardino and it won't be a machete attack. Thanks to the modern threesome of technology, bio-agents and suicidal ideology, the next attack could make 9/11 look like "9 1/2 Weeks."

The sad part about this is, we need to wait for it, because it's the polite thing to do. What a White House. They want to criminalize war, even when ISIS won't play along.

K.G., you talk about this a lot. Rules of engagement, basically. ISIS
does not follow the laws of armed conflicts. But we must.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. And the rules of engagement that have been put in
under this administration were essentially tying the hands behind the back
of American men and women that are serving this country, and we're co-
conspirators in their demise by doing so. And that is what's so grossly
irresponsible. Anybody who has served will tell you that. And you've seen
it time and time again, where then they can't take the shot, or they can't
take him out, because what if, perhaps, this would not offend or alienate?

We have to, in fact, stand up, line up in a line to be slaughtered, and
then we can do something about it.

GUTFELD: Yes. Eric, you know what this is? It's like when we talk about
how the police are scared to do anything, because they don't want to --
they don't want to get in trouble. Now we put that frame of mind into our
troops.

BOLLING: President Obama did this in June of 2009, one of his first
speeches. He said, American exceptionalism is all wrong.

John Brennan just said, "We don't want to alienate." I guess he means the
Muslim community, until they kill us. And once they kill us, then we're
going to alienate the hell out of them.

If you watch -- if you do nothing else, go watch -- there's a -- I believe
it's HBO or Showtime, a show, a documentary called "Spy Masters." And it
takes the CIA directors, all the living CIA -- past CIA directors. You can
see a marked difference between -- between Brennan. He's the one who said
we can't use waterboarding. We can't use enhanced interrogation.

All the other ones -- the dark -- dark sites. Right? Everyone else
admitted they're there, they said, this is an important way to get
information to fight terror. Brennan just -- he wouldn't go there. I
mean, he is -- I would say the softest of the CIA...

GUILFOYLE: But guess what? Who is he under? Who is he under?

BOLLING: I know that...

GUILFOYLE: The people in the CIA respect and admire him, but he's also --
he answers to President Obama. That's the problem here, and then you want
more of that? You want more of this nonsense, American loss of lives? Put
in Hillary Clinton and see what kind of a disaster we have.

GUTFELD: You come from a family of military men...

MCCAIN: You know what this is like? My family, I mean, I have heard for
years and years and years about this feckless foreign policy that President
Obama has. Right now, the chickens are coming home to roost.

We have done nothing. We have no strategy to defeat ISIS right now.
They're growing stronger. We're being told they have chemical weapons
capabilities. We're sitting ducks right now, because we have a president
that is so -- I don't even know what to say that's not going to get me in
trouble and fired. Honestly, I don't want to get fired from my job.

But it is -- he is making the American public sitting ducks. We live in
New York City. We're being told by the CIA director that there's going to
be another attack here. We can prevent this. We have the capabilities to
do it, and we have a president that won't do it because of philosophical
differences or whatever, like you said.

And it makes me completely enraged, and that is why this election cycle,
more so than any other is so vital and so important, because our enemies
know that we are weak; and they know that they will attack us, and we will
do nothing.

GUTFELD: All right, Juan. I don't think you can top that.

WILLIAMS: I wouldn't try to top that. But I will say let's keep
everything. You know, let's keep our eyes open, because if you do, you'll
see that ISIS right now, actually has been decimated. And they have no --
we have now the case where American forces and American allies are
recapturing cities. ISIS is having trouble financially, can't even pay
some of their people.

MCCAIN: Are you kidding me with this right now?

WILLIAMS: No. Let me just tell you something else.

MCCAIN: Chemical weapons. What did you think of the chemical weapons?
What did you think of what the CIA director just said?

WILLIAMS: I think chemical weapons -- I think John Brennan's job, if he
wasn't involved in.

MCCAIN: It is this kind of naivety that is what is putting America in
danger right now. It's this kind of naivete.

WILLIAMS: No, it isn't.

MCCAIN: Yes, it is.

WILLIAMS: No, I think what he's saying is when you have people -- and some
Republicans are guilty of this -- let's just carpet bomb the blank out of
them, what you do is, you feed the ISIS ideology that America's an
aggressor evil nation. And there's a war between Christians and Muslims.

GUILFOYLE: It is -- my God.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAIN: We are sitting ducks right now.

WILLIAMS: We cannot act in a way that ultimately endangers us, and gives
us more enemies...

GUTFELD: Imagine if we had that ideology in World War II.

MCCAIN: You have -- no. You have grandchildren. When you hear the CIA
director talking about how they have chemical weapons capabilities, you're
not scared of this happening here?

WILLIAMS: Of course, but...

MCCAIN: We have the capability to take this out, and we have a president
who refuses to.

GUTFELD: All right. We've got to move on.

Ahead, if you're a "Star Wars" fan, you'll want to stay tuned, because we
have footage from the next chapter. Can hardly wait. Just released today,
first look at Luke in "Episode VIII," coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Some big news for all you Jedi fans. "Star Wars: The Force
Awakens" is still out in theaters, but footage from the next installment
now released. Filming of "Episode VIII" is underway, and the franchise has
put out this teaser. Here it is for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cut. Beautiful.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to "Episode VIII."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: The film is set for release in December of 2017. Benicio del
Toro and Laura Dern will be joining the cast. Greg is so excited. So who
here is pumped for "Episode VIII"?

Now, you're the biggest movie fan on the set.

BOLLING: Love movies. Love the movies.

WILLIAMS: Do you like -- do you like "Star Wars"?

BOLLING: Never seen a "Star Wars" movie.

WILLIAMS: You've never seen a "Star Wars"...?

GUILFOYLE: It's a little weird.

BOLLING: Talk about Star Wars. Like, this morning, it was like, here's
for your "One More Thing." "Star Wars: Episode VIII." I'm like, who
cares? It turns out our producers care.

GUTFELD: This is big news. It's important, because no one else is going
to report on this story. The lame-stream media is not going to touch the
new "Star Wars" movie. It's up for us, "The Five," to talk about this. We
need to push this video.

GUILFOYLE: Push the video. I'm still recovering from wearing those 3-D
glasses in the last one. My goodness.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: That was a home movie.

WILLIAMS: Well in fact, the big -- in fact, the big movie this weekend...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS; ... was "Deadpool." "Deadpool" is far exceeding expectations.
You don't even know what "Deadpool" is?

MCCAIN: I'm sorry. I don't know what "Deadpool" is.

GUTFELD: Ryan Reynolds.

MCCAIN: You know, it's the golden age of television, Netflix.

WILLIAMS: Well, you should look at this Ryan Reynolds guy.

GUTFELD: He plays a sarcastic...

GUILFOYLE: OK, you know he's been around, right?

WILLIAMS: What do you mean by that?

GUTFELD: Disfigured.

BOLLING: Oh, right, right, right, right, right.

GUTFELD: And then he's very angry and he does a lot of stuff. It's very
good.

GUILFOYLE: It's Greg's kind of film.

WILLIAMS: What's your favorite movie that you've seen recently?

GUILFOYLE: Well -- OK, well, honestly, it was -- it was "Creed." It was
the Rocky movie.

WILLIAMS: Oh, see? You told me I've got to go see it.

OK. "One More Thing" up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Greg.

GUTFELD: It's been a while. Let's do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Secret to Happiness, now with fructose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: All right. If you know you're going to lose, if you're in any
kind of competition, you've got to always fashion a way out. Now I'm going
to show you an interesting game of chess, where one guy felt that he was
going to lose and enlisted a friend to end the game. And I think it worked
out quite well.

As you can see the cat make the first move, and the dog realizes that it's
not happening. So he sends this friend to jump on the cat, and therefore,
the game is now over. I've heard that they all live together in Vermont.
And they run a bed and breakfast.

BOLLING: Are they Sanders fans?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Feel the Bern. Feel the Bern.

OK. Juan.

WILLIAMS: The big news in the story line out of the Toronto NBA all-star
game on Sunday was, of course, Kobe Bryant's retirement. But -- but there
was a huge display of athleticism at the games. Zach Levine from the
Minnesota Timberwolves and Aaron Gordon from the Orlando Magic put on a
show.

Gordon grabbed the ball from the mascot, Stuff the Magic Dragon, who was on
a hover board. And then he jumped over the mascot entirely while putting
the ball between his legs. But Levine pulled off the winner when he went
between his legs from the free-throw line. It was the second tie breaker,
and he won his second straight.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

WILLIAMS; That was like watching Eric or Kimberly do a dunk.

GUTFELD: There were no women. There were no women in that.

WILLIAMS: It's like this.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bolling.

BOLLING: Very quickly, I'll be hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" tonight.
It's going to be a hot show. Why? I have Juan and Mary Catherine Ham in
the A-block. But listen to this. Shannon Breen has some exclusive
information she's going to open to the "O'Reilly" audience. What happened
with the pillow? Why were there no autopsy? Where were the justices of
the peace? And why was there this cause of death flip-flopping? She
talked to the guy who found, discovered Scalia's body. So we'll open that
up at 8 p.m. tonight.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Meghan.

MCCAIN: My "One More Thing." Politics is my main passion, but I'm also --
I'm very passionate about positive body advocacy for young women in the
media. I'm so excited that plus-sized model Ashley Graham is the first
plus-sized model on the cover of "Sports Illustrated." Right now, she's a
size 16. She's incredible. She's a really amazing TED talk. I just love
that "Sports Illustrated," the men's magazine, you know, especially in this
type of situation is showing all different sizes of sexy around the world.
I loved it.

GUILFOYLE: Just fantastic. Well done.

OK. So we have something very sweet. I hope you all had a nice
Valentine's Day. And this young boy from Utah certainly made it wonderful
for all of his female students and classmates. Hayden Godfrey, 17 years of
age, saved for one year and a half to buy flowers for every single one of
the 900-something girls at Skyview High School. He bought each of them
carnations. And was working at the McDonald's and as a dishwasher in a
Mexican restaurant to afford this.

Greg, don't ruin it.

Set your DVRs...

GUTFELD: What? You guys are all waiting for me to say something snide.

GUILFOYLE: ... so you never miss an episode of "The Five."

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