Ted Cruz's father talks voting for 'people of principle'

Rafael Cruz and Jerry Falwell, Jr. go on 'Hannity' to discuss the state of Evangelicals in politics


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," January 29, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST:  And welcome to "Hannity."  And tonight, the Iowa caucuses are only three days away, and as we saw at last night's big GOP debate, the candidates are holding nothing back.

Here are some of the biggest moments and the best lines from the final Republican showdown before the Iowa caucuses.  Take a look.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  If I'm our nominee, I will unite this party and we will defeat Hillary Clinton and we will turn this country around once and for all after seven years of the disaster that is Barack Obama!

JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  I'm in the establishment because my dad, the greatest man alive, was president of the United States, and my brother, who I adore, as well, as a fantastic brother, was president.  Fine.  I'll take it.  And I guess I'm part of the establishment because Barbara Bush is my mom.  I'll take that, too.

DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  We need to stop allowing political correctness to dictate our policies because it's going to kill us if we don't.


SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  You can't be in favor of defending us against Islam, radical Islam, if you're not for border security.

SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  If I am elected president, we will repeal every word of "Obama care"!

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-N.J.,  PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Stop the Washington bull and let's get things done!


HANNITY:  All right, here with reaction, from The Washington Times, Charles Hurt, pollster Frank Luntz and from The Weekly Standard, Steve Hayes.

OK, you focus-grouped 27 GOP caucus goers...


HANNITY:  ... and they said?

LUNTZ:  And they said that Marco Rubio was the winner.  It was the first time in the seven debates that we had Rubio as the clear winner.  He's always done well...

HANNITY:  He's always done well, yes.

LUNTZ:  And the reason this time is because Megyn Kelly asked him one of the toughest questions.  She even showed him taking a different position on immigration, and the response back about what he would do was so effective that people said, You know what?  He does have an answer.

And second thing is that when he talked about and joked about Bernie Sanders, that he should be running for president of Sweden, and then emphasized that he's going to have a different foreign policy, and that those four guys that got killed in Benghazi -- they deserve our respect -- voters believe that he's the best candidate to defeat Hillary Clinton, and that's why our 27 moved so strongly to him.

HANNITY:  Steve?

STEPHEN HAYES, FOX CONTRIBUTOR:  Yes, I thought Rubio had a very good night.  I mean, if you judge him against Marco Rubio, I thought his performance last night wasn't as good as it had been in other performances.  But still, he's just good at this.

HANNITY:  He's really good at it.

HAYES:  He's a natural, you know?  He does this very well.

I thought, interestingly, Jeb Bush had a good night, but Rubio in the Bush- Rubio exchange on immigration -- I think I may be the only person alive who believes this -- I thought Rubio bested Bush in that.

Rubio benefits -- if there's a debate about immigration on the stage -- and the takeaway from the big debate, whether it's Cruz and Rubio or Bush and Rubio or a big, you know, scramble, scrum, and the takeaway from that is confusion about the policies of the various candidates, that benefits Rubio.

And in this case, Rubio was pushing back against Jeb Bush, who's to his left on immigration.  So people in Iowa and people watching the debate nationally are looking at this and saying, Well, there's Jeb -- there's Marco Rubio pushing back on Jeb Bush, being tougher on immigration than Jeb Bush.

HANNITY:  Charles, you've been a strong, staunch, steady supporter for Donald Trump.  He wasn't there last night.  What impact does it have in terms of the Iowa caucuses, help him, hurt him, no impact?

CHARLES HURT, WASHINGTON EXAMINER:  Oh, well, it's sort of -- obviously, the Iowa caucuses are kind of impossible to predict for all the reasons that we know.  But no, I think that last night was -- it was a big win for Donald Trump.  You know, he obviously wasn't at the debate, but he was very much talked about.  The fact that Ted Cruz had quite a bloodletting and that -- you know, the montage the moderators showed, showing, you know, Ted Cruz's various statements about amnesty and legalization for illegals presently in the country -- that was devastating for Ted Cruz.  Anything that is devastating for Ted Cruz I think very much helps Donald Trump.

But the other thing -- early reports are that we had something like 13 million people, a huge number of people, tune in to the Republican debate, even though Donald Trump wasn't there.  But I think a big reason that so many people are interested in these debates has been because of Donald Trump and because of the issues that he's brought up.

HANNITY:  All right, let me go to Frank Luntz.  Let me put up...

LUNTZ:  Let me...

HANNITY:  Go ahead.  Yes.

LUNTZ:  Let me respond to that Trump thing because we actually asked our voters what they thought of it.  Iowa is different.  Iowa, they expect you to be in that line.  They expect you to say what you mean and mean what you say, and then they're going to size you up.

The fact that Trump didn't do it -- any other place in the country except Iowa and New Hampshire, it would have worked for Trump to say, I'm not going.  Not in this state.  And the reason why is they want...


HANNITY:  We say that, but we don't know what's going to happen in this state.  We'll know in three days.

Let me put up the RealClearPolitics average as it relates to Iowa because I think -- all right, this is going in.  You got Trump 32 percent, Cruz 26, Rubio 13.  There might be some fluidity to this.  Notoriously, people make up their minds last minute, but number two -- 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, the polls were so drastically wrong...

LUNTZ:  Right.

HANNITY:  ... with the way it turned out, anywhere between 7 and 25 points wrong!

LUNTZ:  If Trump wins this...


LUNTZ:  ... then he may win every single state.  If Trump wins this...

HANNITY:  Steve Hayes is about to...


LUNTZ:  ... head just explode?

HANNITY:  No, he's...


HANNITY:  ... a coronary over there.

LUNTZ:  ... if he wins here, because Cruz has got the organization, Cruz understands how the process works.

HANNITY:  And he went the full Grassley, 99 counties.

LUNTZ:  Yes.  But if Trump actually can win here among Republicans, then he can win anywhere.

HAYES:  Well, I think that's true.  He can win anywhere, if he can win here.  And it would be a blow to Ted Cruz if he doesn't win Iowa, I think.  I mean, this is a state that's sort of made for Ted Cruz.  But I think it's far too early to say that if Donald Trump wins Iowa, then he runs the table.

LUNTZ:  He could.

HAYES:  We're talking -- he could.  It's possible.  I don't think it's inevitable.


HANNITY:  ... he has a significant lead in New Hampshire and he's had it for a while...


HANNITY:  ... significant lead in South Carolina.


HANNITY:  And he's had it for a while.


HANNITY:  That's pretty strong...


LUNTZ:  And strong across the South.

HANNITY:  ... Florida and Nevada and pretty much every state.

HAYES:  But here's what you're likely to see.  Here's what you're likely to see after Iowa.  Iowa's likely to perform its role as the winnowing state.  It's going to knock, what, three, four, maybe five candidates effectively out of the race.  Maybe New Hampshire, they stick through New Hampshire.

You're going to see going into South Carolina and these other states, these March 1 states, Nevada, then these March 1 states, a much, much smaller field.  And the question is, with the lower ceiling that Donald Trump has, the reservations that people have about Donald Trump, do these voters who have been supporting these candidates at 5 percent, at 8 percent swing behind the non-Trump alternative?

And if you do, then you have a long process, and I think potentially a -- doesn't have to be a two-man race -- potentially a three-man race.  With Ted Cruz's resources, his popularity in the South, Trump's national popularity and whoever this other person certainly seems like...


HAYES:  ... Marco Rubio has momentum in Iowa.

HANNITY:  Marco, Jeb or Kasich, say.

LUNTZ:  Well, there's no reason for Ben Carson to go out because he's got so much money.  Even if he seems to be dropping in the polls, he's got the resources.  And one of those people between Bush, Kasich and Christie, they go on, as well.  So you actually are looking at a five-person race.

HANNITY:  But we will see people after New Hampshire out, maybe before.

LUNTZ:  But the point that you made, in every single state, Trump is leading.

HANNITY:  That's why -- look, if I'm looking at it from -- if you want to stop Trump momentum, if possible, OK?  Thousands of people showed up for him that couldn't get in last night.  And if they come up and caucus, that's a lot of people.  There have been Iowa caucuses where candidates win with 32,000 votes or fewer.

All right, let me -- let me put up a montage.  And I want to ask Charles, as a Trump supporter -- they made these attacks from the stage.  It really wasn't all about Trump, but it did come up, obviously.  Tell me if you think these are effective.  Then we'll ask Frank.


CRUZ:  I'm a maniac.  And everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly.  And Ben, you're a terrible surgeon.


CRUZ:  Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way...


RUBIO:  Let's begin by being clear what this campaign is about.  It's not about Donald Trump.  He's an entertaining guy.  He's the greatest show on earth.

T. CRUZ:  If Donald engages in insults, or anybody else, I don't tend to reciprocate.  I have not insulted Donald personally and I don't intend to.

BUSH:  I kind of miss Donald Trump.  He was a little Teddy bear to me.


BUSH:  We always had such a loving relationship during these debates, and in between and the tweets.  I kind of miss him.  I wish he was here.


HANNITY:  All right, Charles, help, hurt or no impact at all?

HURT:  Well, you know, Ted Cruz, who is kind of naturally not a terribly funny guy, in another attempt to make a joke about Trump later on in the debate, had that line about how, Well, you know, if I get any more tough questions, I'm going to walk off that stage -- well, in the lead-up to it, when he was whining very convincingly, whining and complaining about the questions, Chris Wallace very respectfully but very forcefully said, Sir, this is a debate.

And I thought that was one of the most a devastating moments of the night for Ted Cruz and another reason why it was a rough night all around for Ted Cruz.

HANNITY:  You know, we all think these moments are devastating.  But then we forget about them 24 hours later.  What did you think?

LUNTZ:  So you had 13 million, whatever, 13 million, 14 million people watching.  Everyone in Iowa, everyone in New Hampshire because it's both states that are paying attention to it.  And Trump wasn't there to be heard.  I mean, that's critical to this.

HANNITY:  Well, you just got done saying you think he's going to win the state.

LUNTZ:  I think -- no, I think Cruz wins here.

HANNITY:  Oh, you do?  OK.

LUNTZ:  I believe -- I'm willing to say it on national television.  I do think Cruz wins because of his organization.  But I see Trump's potential.

You know, Sean, back in August, I got it wrong.  And so I've spent the last six months studying it, sometimes putting up my own resources to figure this thing out.  Yes, Trump can absolutely do it, but in the end in politics, organization does matter.

HANNITY:  Especially in a caucus.  Caucus is different.

LUNTZ:  And you're basically having to tell people, you know, not quite in the Republicans because Democrats, you actually have to tell people who you support.


LUNTZ:  In the GOP, it'll be pretty clear.  If they don't show up, then it doesn't matter who they support.

HANNITY:  Steve, last word.

HAYES:  Yes, I think -- I think that's right.  And you know, you talk to people on the ground here from all campaigns, and they will say the Cruz organization is formidable.  They expect Cruz to be able to turn out the voters that he's turning out.

I talked to a Trump precinct captain yesterday.  She told me that they're getting -- the phone is ringing off the hook.  Democrats and independents want to know the details.  How much time to I have to commit to spending to be there to support Donald Trump?

LUNTZ:  But here's...

HAYES:  If a fraction of the people who went to the event last night...


HANNITY:  ... at least.

HAYES:  It's competitive.  I think -- I think Trump ultimately pulls it out.  And that -- you know, that would be unprecedented.


HAYES:  ... changes what we think we know about Iowa.

LUNTZ:  What you just said is absolutely accurate, but they have to call the Trump headquarters to get the information.  In Cruz's case, all the calls are going out.

HAYES:  Correct.

LUNTZ:  The e-mails are going out.  The texts are going out.  In Trump's case, it's all coming in.

HANNITY:  That's the organization you're talking about.

LUNTZ:  Exactly.

HANNITY:  All right, guys, thank you very much.  Charles, thank you.

HURT:  You bet.

HANNITY:  And coming up next tonight, right here on "Hannity"...


CRUZ:  The "gang of eight" Rubio-Schumer bill would have passed, but because Ted stood up and helped led the effort, millions rose up to kill it!


RUBIO:  This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on, and Rand touched upon it, that he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a -- you know, everyone else is a RINO.


HANNITY:  All right, so the topic of immigration took center stage at last night's GOP debate.  Juan Williams, Peter Johnson, Jr., Larry Elder -- they'll have reaction.  That's next.

And then later tonight, Liberty University president Jerry Falwell, Jr. -- he's endorsed Donald Trump, and Ted Cruz's father, Rafael Cruz, are all here to react to the idea of which candidate is best representing evangelical voters.

That and more as we continue tonight from Iowa.



HANNITY:  And welcome back to "Hannity."  So at last night's Republican debate, one of the most heated exchanges took place over the topic of immigration.  Take a look at this.


RUBIO:  I do not support blanket amnesty.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX MODERATOR:  But you went on to...

RUBIO:  I do not support amnesty.

KELLY:  You said...

RUBIO:  In 2009 and 2010, where the last effort for legalization was an effort done in the Senate -- it was an effort led by several people that provided almost an instant path with very little obstacles moving forward.

BUSH:  I'm kind of confused because he was the sponsor of the "gang of eight" bill that did require a bunch of thresholds, but ultimately allowed for citizenship over an extended period of time.

When you led the charge with the "gang of eight," I supported it because you asked me to.  I think it's important for people in elected office to try to forge consensus to solve problems.  There's never going to be a perfect bill.


KELLY:  All right...

BUSH:  But -- but when you didn't do that and you asked people to support, you shouldn't cut and run.

RUBIO:  But Megyn...

BUSH:  You should stick with it.

CRUZ:  The "gang of eight" Rubio- Schumer bill would have passed, but because Ted stood up and helped lead the effort, millions rose up to kill it!


RUBIO:  This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on -- and Rand touched upon it -- that he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a -- you know, everyone else is a RINO.  And then when you got to the Senate, you did an interview with CBS News that wasn't part of the video where you said on the issue of people that are here illegally, we can reach a compromise.  And then in the committee, you said, I want to bring people out of the shadows.  Now you want to trump Trump on immigration!


HANNITY:  All right, joining us now with analysis is Fox News legal analyst Peter Johnson, Jr., radio talk show host Larry Elder, Fox News political analyst Juan Williams.

Juan, I'll start with you.  A couple of things have happened.  Paris happened.  San Bernardino happened, the debate over Syrian refugees, and our director of national intelligence and our FBI director and the -- Obama's choice to defeat ISIS, General John Allen, all warning that the immigrant population, especially from Syria, will be infiltrated by ISIS.  The debate has shifted.  It's changed.  We have to look at it differently!

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX POLITICAL ANALYST:  No, you don't.  I'll tell you what's happened...

HANNITY:  No?  Just let everybody in?

WILLIAMS:  The 12 million people who are undocumented in this country at this moment right here, consider that a threat.  If you want to understand the idea that we have to deal with a problem as an economic issue for our companies to get the best people in here, as...


HANNITY:  Let's say you have a problem...

WILLIAMS:  As a security issue, think about San Bernardino.  What -- those were people here.  They didn't come in at the last minute, Sean.

HANNITY:  OK, but -- - but the problem is, is there wasn't any vetting done, and especially in the case of the woman.  But here's my question.  All right, if you think we have to deal with the problem -- let's say you're in a boat all by yourself, you're out fishing, the boat is taking on water, when's the first thing you're going to do?


HANNITY:  You got to plug the hole.

WILLIAMS:  That's it.  Stop the problem.

HANNITY:  So Peter Johnson, Jr., I turn to you.  I think what every candidate on that stage said last night was we have got to secure the borders first.  And even Marco Rubio said, then let the country decide what the decision will be on those that didn't respect our laws and sovereignty.

PETER JOHNSON, JR., FOX LEGAL ANALYST:  Well, I think that the homework of any common sense immigration plan and any constitutional immigration plan -- but I think we have to keep in mind the point that you're making, Sean, that security in a time of war is absolutely paramount.

At the same time, we have to understand that xenophobia, that racism, anti- religion doesn't work in this country.  And so we need to keep our perspective, so we can't run away with it at that same time.  But we need to get the borders straight, and I think these candidates have it right up. Yes, you're right.

HANNITY:  Yes.  Larry Elder, you know what?  The world has shifted and things have gotten worse.  We have more national security issues.  You live in southern California.  You probably more than anybody else have seen the impact on the educational system, on the criminal justice system, the health care system in LA, and the cost to the taxpayers of California.  

LARRY ELDER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Well, Sean, but for purposes of the debate last night, the issue was whether or not Cruz or Rubio have been consistent on this issue.  And I think in that regard, Rubio's in trouble.  He ran as an anti-immigration, anti-pathway to citizenship hawk.  Two years later, he did a 180, and now he's gone back, and his argument is, Well, we're now concerned about national security, as if we weren't before.

Regarding Ted Cruz, he's been consistent, but his position is difficult to sound bite because he introduced an amendment to kill the "gang of eight" bill, which is true.  Schumer even said so.  And he got Mike Lee, two -- an anti-immigration hawks, and Jeff Sessions, to side with him.  But that took a bit of explaining.  But the question is, who's been consistent?  And Rubio has not been and Cruz has.

WILLIAMS:  Well, let's clear this up, then, for Sean Hannity and say that it is obvious from both what we have heard from Peter and Larry, that national security has always been an issue, but we've got to avoid racism, xenophobia, and we've got to fix the immigration problem...

HANNITY:  Juan, Juan...

WILLIAMS:  ... and not find reasons to avoid it by vilifying people who either want to come in the country or people who are immigrants and in our country.

HANNITY:  There's no racism rooted in the fact that, if you look at people in this country that are most negatively impacted by the fact that there's more job competition driving down wages, it's the American people, Peter, the 50 million in poverty, the 46 million on food stamps and the 95 million Americans...

WILLIAMS:  Oh, come on!

HANNITY:  ... out of labor force because we have millions of more people here illegally that are competition in the labor force!

JOHNSON:  It's a huge issue.  And you talked about San Bernardino (INAUDIBLE), Well, these aren't newcomers.  She was a newcomer.  We missed it big time.

HANNITY:  That's right.

JOHNSON:  We didn't secure our borders in the appropriate way.  We didn't take it seriously.  We need to take it seriously.

But at the same time, we cannot engage in wholesale condemnation of the Muslim religion or Muslim people.  And at least one candidate was resorting to that kind of conduct.  That's going to be rejected by the Republican Party.  That's going to be rejected by Democrats and independents in this country going forward.

And I think we have heard that from...

HANNITY:  Peter, was it...

JOHNSON:  ... from Cruz and from Rubio, as well.  There's got to be a balance, but we need a strong, secure border going forward.  And we don't have it.

ELDER:  And Sean...

HANNITY:  Larry?

ELDER:  And Sean, it came up last night about hostility -- it came up last night about hostility towards Muslims.  Jews are far more likely to be the victim of religious-based hate crimes than Muslims!

JOHNSON:  That's correct.

ELDER:  How about a word or two about that?

JOHNSON:  That's correct, and I've stood up for my entire life.  But let's not make them equivalent.  Let's not have...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  They're not equivalent.

JOHNSON:  ... both coming under fire.  We don't want any groups coming under fire because of the religion, the religion that they lawfully observe.  If they're radical jihadists and they're violent and they want to kill...

HANNITY:  Peter, my only...

JOHNSON:  ... they should be locked up...

HANNITY:  My only...

JOHNSON:  ... and taken out.  Simple.

HANNITY:  My only caution is there's such a big cultural divide, where sharia is the antithesis of our American constitutional system.

JOHNSON:  It is.  You're correct.

HANNITY:  And when we hear that people might infiltrate the immigrant community coming from Muslim countries -- ISIS would do that -- that is something we've got to pay very close attention to.  While it might appear that it's religious test, I don't believe that's it.  It's an extremist test, and I don't know how you ascertain...

JOHNSON:  You're hitting it on the head.

HANNITY:  ... where somebody is in their heart.

JOHNSON:  It should be an extremism test and it shouldn't be a religious test, but some people, or at least one person, want to mix it.  And that's a popular thing to do, especially when there's so much fear about our security.  I think it's essentially un-American, though, to do that.

WILLIAMS:  You don't really think that sharia...

ELDER:  And another...

WILLIAMS:  ... anybody's going to impose sharia...

ELDER:  And another...

ELDER:  ... law on this country, do you?

HANNITY:  But -- but...

WILLIAMS:  I mean, that's the kind of thing...

HANNITY:  Wait, wait!  No, no, no!  Hang on!

WILLIAMS:  ... that leads people to fear and...

HANNITY:  There's no fear.


HANNITY:  But Juan...

WILLIAMS:  ... instead of dealing with the immigration problem.

HANNITY:  If you grew up in a country where you had the right to tell the women in your house how to dress, whether they can even leave the -- hang on!

WILLIAMS:  You should try in my house.  Sheesh.


WILLIAMS:  Christian household, too.

HANNITY:  Hang on.  No, no.  It's not -- but if you grow up in a society where women can't drive, women can't be seen outside in public without a male relative, they can't go to school or work without their husband or their father's permission, do you bring that mentality with you or -- and want to -- or do you want to assimilate?  That's a fair question.

WILLIAMS:  That's a fair question, but this is the United States of America...

HANNITY:  And some people may want to bring those values with us (sic)...

WILLIAMS:  But they're not -- but you know what, Sean?  There's no way they're...

ELDER:  And Sean...

WILLIAMS:  ... bring those values and get us as a democracy to accept it.  Never.

HANNITY:  But you never grew up that way.  Larry?

ELDER:  And Sean, it's just as extreme for the president of United States, for Hillary Rodham Clinton to never utter the words "radical Islam."  That is every bit as extreme as anything Donald Trump has ever said on the issue!

HANNITY:  All right, guys.  Thank you all for being with us.  Appreciate it.

And coming up on this busy news night -- according to The Washington Examiner, Congressman Darrell Issa says that he thinks the FBI director would like to indict Hillary Clinton.  That explosive news is coming up.

But first, Liberty University president Jerry Falwell, Jr. -- he endorsed Donald Trump earlier this week.  We'll check in with him.  And Ted Cruz's father, Rafael Cruz, are (sic) here to explain which candidate they think will be best for evangelical voters.

And then later tonight...


CARLY FIORINA, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Here now, she is trying for the White House.  She's probably more qualified for the big house.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Hillary Rodham Clinton did that to our country!  She is not qualified to be president of the United States!


RUBIO:  Anyone who lies to the families of Americans who have died in the service of this country can never be commander-in-chief of the United States!


HANNITY:  The GOP candidates unloading on Hillary Clinton during last night's debate.  We'll check in with Dana Loesch, Katie Pavlich.  They are here with reaction.

That and more as we continue tonight from Des Moines, Iowa.


HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  So we're just three days away from the Iowa caucuses, and the Republican presidential candidates are competing hard for the evangelical vote.

Joining us now is the man some are calling Senator Ted Cruz's secret weapon, the author of "A Time for Action: Empowering the Faithful to Reclaim America," Senator Ted Cruz's father, Rafael Cruz.  Also with us, the president of Liberty University, the reverend -- well, not the reverend-- Jerry Falwell, Jr., is with us -- his brother is the reverend -- who officially endorsed Donald Trump earlier this week.

Guys, good to see you both.  It's an honor to meet you.  How are you, sir?

RAFAEL CRUZ, TED CRUZ'S FATHER:  Good to be with you, Sean.

HANNITY:  It's amazing historically -- this is a state, Iowa, where Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum have won.  The evangelical vote is very important in this state.

R. CRUZ:  Yes.

HANNITY:  And obviously, you're supporting your son.

R. CRUZ:  Of course.

HANNITY:  Yes.  Tell us why -- why is this vote so important and why -- what are the -- the -- the issues that evangelicals are thinking about?

R. CRUZ:  Well, you know, this country, we have seen our moral and ethical values being destroyed over the last 50 years.  But that has happened at an accelerated pace during the Obama administration.  We're seeing religious liberty under attack.  We're seeing right to life -- look what has happened with Planned Parenthood.


R. CRUZ:  And of course, we have seen marriage, the traditional marriage being under attack, which is really an attack on religious liberty.

And it is I think we are at a crossroads in America.  We need to get back to the foundations that have made America great, the biblical and the constitutional foundations, hard work, individual responsibility, honesty, integrity, the rule of law, free enterprise, limited government...


R. CRUZ:  ... and all of those are both biblical and constitutional principles.

HANNITY:  Jerry, Jr., I know I referred to you as a reverend.  I've done that before, and it's by accident because I knew your dad so well.

You made a choice and you quoted your father about electing a president, and we're not electing a minister or a preacher or a pastor.  Explain.

JERRY FALWELL, JR., LIBERTY UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT:  Right.  Well, you know, I spent the better part of my adult life, Sean, working to make Liberty University the world-class Christian university that it was envisioned to be.  And we spent many years barely surviving financially.  Dad and I would spend many weekends on the phone, begging and borrowing from donors and lenders to get the money to cover the paychecks that had gone out the Friday before.

But we brought in the best professionals, the best attorneys, the best accountants, the best financial management regardless of whether they shared our faith.  And that's what it took to turn Liberty University around, and now it's become one of the most prosperous and successful Christian universities in the country.


FALWELL:  And it's just the same as a parent who has a desperately sick child who looks for the best doctor, not necessarily the doctor that shares their faith.

I think the United States is at the same place that Liberty University was in the early 1990s, and I think that we need someone who has turned companies around, even used the bankruptcy laws -- we never did -- but somebody who has actually in the real world, been -- turned companies around, turned his own companies around, made them prosperous.

I think that's what the this country needs.  And so I think we're at the -- at the -- I agree with Rafael Cruz, who I respect very much, that we're at a crossroads.  But I think the crossroads is we're about to lose our economic, our -- our stature in the world.

HANNITY:  Let me...

FALWELL:  And I think we're on the -- on the verge of becoming a third world county.

HANNITY:  When's your reaction?  

CRUZ:  Well, you know, it is -- first of all, it is so great to hear from Jerry.  I knew his father.  His father was a man of principle, a man of deep conviction, a man that would not compromise his values or his principles.  During the 1980, 1979, I was part of the religious roundtable.  
We worked together with moral majority to mobilize millions of people of faith to help elect Ronald Reagan.  

HANNITY:  You know, we see in these elections there's so many evangelicals that stay out of the voting process.  Is that going to happen this year?  

CRUZ:  I don't think so.  Unfortunately for the last 50 years the church, the people of faith have stayed away from the political process, and their reasoning is politics is a dirty business.  I don't want any part of it.  Well, it is a dirty business because people of principle not been running for office and people of principle have not been voting for people of principle, so it becomes our fault.  Actually, for the last few years I've made it a concerted effort to talk to pastors, priests, rabbis --

HANNITY:  And motivate your congregation?  

CRUZ:  And motivate them to be involved in the civic society.  

HANNITY:  Last word, Jerry Falwell Jr.?  

FALWELL:  Well, I have gotten to know Donald Trump very well over the last four years and I think he is a businessman of the highest honesty and integrity.  I think he's a wonderful father.  I think he treats his employees -- I have seen their loyalty to him, and I think he treats them well.

And I just -- I believe that he is the right man for this country at this point in our history, with our financial situation, with our debt approaching $24 trillion -- if we hit $24 trillion a lot of experts say we can't recover.  And I just think we need a businessman.  I think it's time for a businessman to run this country, somebody from the private sector, a citizen legislator.  And I may not feel that way four years from now and I may not have felt that way four years ago, but I think we are at a crucial point and he is the only person who's equipped to bring us around.  

HANNITY:  All right, guys, good to see you.  

According to a brand new explosive report Congressman Darrell Issa says he thinks the FBI, in fact the director would like to indict Hillary Clinton.  We have more on this breaking news with Doug Schoen, Jay Sekulow, and they'll debate whether or not the Clinton server scandal may put her behind bars.  That and more as we continue tonight from Des Moines, Iowa.  


JACKIE IBANEZ, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Good evening.  This is a Fox News alert.  I'm Jackie Ibanez in New York.  

With just three days left before the Iowa caucuses, Hillary Clinton may find herself on the defensive side again.  The White House confirms tonight many of the e-mails from Clinton's private server do contain classified information.  In fact, 22 e-mails have been deemed so top secret they cannot be released with the others.  The State Department won't say if Clinton sent any herself.  Her campaign office calls the matter, quote, "over-classification run amuck."  

More disturbing news for people of Flint, Michigan.  Federal officials now warning water samples have higher lead levels than previously thought.  That means the filters that were distributed to deal with the city's contamination crisis, they won't work.  People with higher levels of lead in the water are being notified and their water is retested.  

I'm Jackie Ibanez.  Back to "Hannity."

HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  So we have more bad news for Hillary Clinton and her server scandal.  According to Washington Examiner former House Oversight Committee Chairman Congressman Darrell Issa says that he thinks the FBI would like to indict Hillary Clinton and her top aide Huma Abedin.  And according to another report by The Hill former FBI officials think charges related to the server scandal could be recommended against Clinton during the height of the general election campaign.  

Here now with reaction, Democratic pollster Doug Schoen, and the author of "Undemocratic," the expanded paperback version comes out on Tuesday, from the American Center for Law and Justice, Jay Sekulow.  Jay, you and I have been -- you have your sources.  I have my sources.  I have been told now for a while the FBI investigation is near complete.  They've had over 100 full time agents.  We have the inspector general report last week that said dozens of e-mails at the SAP classification level.  She is in deep legal trouble.  Where does this go?  

JAY SEKULOW, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE:  I think very serious trouble.  Sean, here's the stage we're at.  I think right now the FBI is, what they're doing is they're putting that case.  So what the agents do, as they've conducted this thorough investigation, of course, the SAP information just escalates this to a whole different level because that's over and above top secret.  That put human intelligence assets of ours vulnerable to being outed basically because of the lack of security that was on this server for Hillary Clinton.  

So here's what happens.  The Department of Justice FBI agents are putting that case together.  They've got the evidence.  They lay out that evidence in a report.  That report and, you know, again, it could still be in process, will recommend here are the various charges.  And that is then taken and reviewed by James Comey.  Yes, it's serious.  

HANNITY:  As Catherine Herridge reported earlier today that some of the e- mails too secretive to be released under any circumstances.  I mean, if they can't release them even to the members of the intelligence committees because of the secret nature of this, probably meaning that people's lives are in jeopardy, and then we hear reports it's likely, Bob Gates said it's likely the Russians tapped into this, to me, it seems that this is almost a slam dunk.  She will have serious legal issues.  Your reaction?  


SEKULOW:  No doubt.  

SCHOEN:  Sean, my question is, do you think the Obama Justice Department, Loretta Lynch and the president himself are going to indict Hillary Clinton after what the president said earlier this week?  He said it's not a national security risk.  I agree.  Jay and you are right.  These are very serious legal issues, but do you think, both of you, that she will be charged with a crime as a result?  

SEKULOW:  Here's the risk.  

HANNITY:  The answer to the question -- Jay?  

SEKULOW:  The FBI agents, they're doing a thorough job here.  And they put together a recommendation that a grand jury be impanelled and that charges be brought, and the director concurs and makes that recommendation to Loretta Lynch the attorney general, and she blows it off or just decides we are not going there, or gets an order from above from the president saying we are not going to do that, I think you could risk a very, very serious shake-up within the Department of Justice where you could see career FBI agents and maybe even the director of the FBI resigning over this.  And I'm not sure that the president wants that as his legacy.  So, Doug, you raise the right point, which is the politics of it, but the politics cuts both ways if it gets to that point where there is a recommendation from James Comey to move and Loretta Lynch just doesn't do it.  

HANNITY:  And James Comey once threatened to resign over another issue involving John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzalez if you remember at the time.  It's not unprecedented.  


SCHOEN:  I also think frankly --

SEKULOW:  He is.  I remember that very incident.  Sean, that was -- James Comey is a man of principle.  He threatened to resign -- would not allow that -- those warrantless wiretaps to continue under his watch while John Ashcroft incapacitated because of surgery.  And he's a serious guy.  And I think the ramifications on this politically for Hillary Clinton and legally are at the highest stage right now they could be at.  

SCHOEN:  Just a quick point.  Politically, if Hillary loses one of two or even two of two in Iowa and New Hampshire, her political position will be weakened, and that would I think strengthen the hand Justice Department in going forward.  

HANNITY:  What happens then politically, Doug?  

SEKULOW:  She's a factor in the administration of justice, but a good point.  

SCHOEN:  I'm sorry, your question, again?  

HANNITY:  What happens politically?  

SCHOEN:  If she loses the two, we have got Joe Biden being teed up.  He said he regrets every day he's not in the race.  He might be if what you and Jay are talking about comes to pass.  

HANNITY:  And that means that's nothing but chaos and corruption.  Can they win in that environment, Jay?  

SCHOEN:  They have a great asset.  They have got the Republicans.  

HANNITY:  Nice try.  

SEKULOW:  The Republicans are going to have a normative process where there's going to be a nominee selected by the regular delegate process within the RNC.  If you add a situation with Hillary Clinton getting indicted and the DNC has to move through special super delegates or through amending its rules to put in Joe Biden, it is chaos on that side.

But look, don't underestimate Joe Biden, though.  Sean, he is a good campaigner.  You may not like his politics or his positions, but the guy can campaign.  So who knows?  But I think it should not be the factor.  The factor should be, was there a violation of the criminal law?  If there was, the grand jury should be impanelled and indictment should be issued.  

SCHOEN:  And I'm skeptical, but I would say Biden plus Elizabeth Warren is a pretty darn strong ticket if something happens to Hillary.  

HANNITY:  I think it will be the party of corruption.  And everybody supported her and it will have a much bigger impact than you're suggesting, Doug.  But we'll see that.  

SCHOEN:  We will, indeed.  

HANNITY:  It's not going to be that long.  Thank you, both.  

Coming up next tonight right here on HANNITY --


FIORINA:  She's escaped prosecution more times than El Chapo.  

CHRISTIE:  She put American intelligence officers at risk for her convenience.  She put American strategy at risk for her convenience.  

RUBIO:  Hillary Clinton lied to the families of those four brave Americans who lost their life in Benghazi.  


HANNITY:  The Republican candidates, they went on the attack against Hillary Clinton during last night's debate.  Dana Loesch, Katie Pavlich are here with reaction as we continue from Des Moines, Iowa.  Stay with us.  


HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  At last night's debate the Republican presidential candidates laid out the reasons why Hillary Clinton cannot be our next commander in chief.  Take a look.  


FIORINA:  She is trying for the White House.  She is probably more qualified for the big hours, honestly.


FIORINA:  She's escaped prosecution more times than El Chapo.  Perhaps Sean Penn should interview her.  The woman should be prosecuted.  

CHRISTIE:  She put American intelligence officers at risk for her convenience.  She put American strategy at risk for her convenience.  Let me tell you who is not qualified to be president of the United States, Chris.  Hillary Rodham Clinton did that to our country.  She is not qualified to be president of the United States.  

RUBIO:  Hillary Clinton lied to the families of those four brave Americans who lost their lives in Benghazi, and anyone who lies to families of Americans who have died in the service of this country can never be commander in chief in the United States.  


HANNITY:  Joining us now, the host of "Dana" on "The Blaze" Dana Loesch, and Fox News contributor Katie Pavlich.  I'm glad to see that somebody seems to understand the Espionage Act, what happened with David Petraeus.  Katie Pavlich, we've got now the intelligence community inspector general outlining dozens of e-mails that transcend even top secret intelligence that were found on her e-mail server.  The question is, are we going to be in the middle of a presidential campaign, and are we going to have a candidate indicted?  

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  I think there is serious evidence to show in talking with attorneys here in Washington, D.C. and outside of the beltway that Hillary Clinton will be indicted, and the DNC is going to have to scramble to find a solution to that problem.

But look, I think it's really great that the Republican candidates were able to capitalize off of this issue last night against Hillary Clinton.  And we have to remind that Hillary Clinton continues to this day, Sean, on the campaign trail when she is asked to say that she did nothing wrong when it comes to hosting classified, top secret information on a private server.  Well, here is some news for Hillary Clinton.  Hosting information that is classified and top secret specifically when it comes to human source information is wrong.  And the fact that she won't admit that and says she has no lapse in judgment over that I think is a point Republicans are capitalizing on because the national security of the United States is at stake here.  

HANNITY:  You know, Dana, we learned the whole story of David Petraeus.  And they wanted to charge him for a felony for the Espionage Act for far less, and that was handing over his daily schedule for a biography on him.  And that got him into very deep trouble.  This case seems to be that on steroids.  What happened?  

DANA LOESCH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Sean, David's last name isn't Clinton.  That's it quite simply.  Hillary Clinton, she seems to be in a way coded with the same Teflon that her husband was coated with.  But I'm not quite sure that is going to protect her going into this general election.  

Look, if she's indicted I have no idea how Democrats are going to deal with that.  I have no idea how a voter can walk in and cast a ballot, vote for Hillary Clinton knowing that she can be indicted.  But that is if Loretta Lynch at the Department of Justice indicts her, and that's if Barack Obama is feeling generous enough to perhaps stand in the way of that.  But if the FBI refers an indictment and nothing happens, not only are you going to have anger towards the Democrat Party, the Obama administration, but Hillary Clinton as well.  This is kind of a nightmare for Democrats.  I know that everybody loves to focus on this slap fight happening in the Republican primary, but the Democrat frontrunner will likely be, at least the FBI will refer that she is to be indicted.  

HANNITY:  And if they do, Dana, and make that referral and Loretta Lynch and the Justice Department ignore it, I will not be shocked to see a mass resignation at the FBI starting with James Comey.  He nearly did it when he was working under George W. Bush, as we all know, a high profile case.  So we'll have to wait and see.  Dana and Katie, appreciate it.  

And coming up, we need your help with a very important "Question of the Day." That and more as we continue tonight from Des Moines, Iowa.


HANNITY:  All right, time for our "Question of the Day."  So who do you think won last night's debate?  Just got to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think.  

Quick programming note before we go.  The countdown to Iowa is on.  We'll be back here Sunday night, working Sunday, thank God it's not Super Bowl Sunday, right before the Iowa caucuses.  Sunday night, our usual time,10:00 eastern.  That is all the time we have left this evening from Iowa.  We hope you'll have a great night.  


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