'The Five' pick winners, losers of Fox News-Google debate

Republican candidates face off in final debate before the Iowa caucuses


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 29, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Live from Iowa. Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City, 4 p.m. in Des Moines, and this is "The Five."

Three days until Election Day here in Iowa, not much time left for the candidates to sway any undecided voters. They certainly tried hard last night. Ted Cruz was the frontrunner on the stage, which usually makes you the top target. He struck back at moderator Chris Wallace, after he felt he was being ganged up on.


SEN. TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chris, I would note that the last four questions have been, Rand, please attack Ted. Marco please attack ted. Chris, please attack Ted. Jeb please attack Ted.


CRUZ: Let me just say this.


CRUZ: Well, no, no. A debate actually is a policy issue, but I will say this. Gosh, if you guys say -- ask one more mean question, I may have to leave the stage.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don't worry. I'm not leaving the stage no matter what you ask me.



PERINO: And another interesting moment, different from what we've seen in previous debates, was when the candidates were questioned about their electability and likability. In 2013, "Time Magazine" named Marco Rubio, the savior of the GOP. But with the Florida senator polling in third place, he was asked about that given title and why Americans should vote for him despite his current standings.


RUBIO: Let me be clear about one thing. There is only one savior and it is not me. It's Jesus Christ who came down to earth and died for our sins.


As far as the polls are concerned, Iowa, on Monday night you are going to go to a caucus site. And you'll be the first Americans that vote in this election. You will be the first American to get to answer the fundamental question, what comes next for this country after seven disastrous years of Barack Obama.


PERINO: All right. So we are live in Des Moines. It's good to finally be here, we're excited.


PERINO: Some people flew last night. One of us was actually in the debate hall last night. How was it?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It was electric. You could feel the energy. It was dry. I have to say that it was dry.


And I'll tell you why. You know, principle and policy is less exciting than personal attacks, and it forces the viewer to pay attention or pay attention more than they have to. Here's my stupid metaphor of the day. Remember when David Lee Roth left Van Halen?

PERINO: Yes. It's tragic.


GUTFELD: I replace him.


GUTFELD: The band was still great, but you were missing the showmanship and the unpredictability of David Lee Roth, and that's kind of a debate it was. You had still the great songs, you had the substance but you were missing kind of a shirtless guy dancing on the, you know, on the ceiling.

BOLLING: Coincidentally; when he left, he never wasn't that good after he left Van Halen -- David Lee Roth.

GUTFELD: That's true. Never -- you know what? That's a great lesson. You never know you have something good until you lose it.


BOLLING: Oh my, God. Is there a Kleenex? Do we have any tissue?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: I'm welling up a little bit.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: Kimberly.


PERINO: You flew in last night.


PERINO: As in getting those a feel for things here in Iowa. What did you make of the debate after you got back -- here last night?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. You know, I think it's -- obviously, it was, you know, very informative. You gave everybody a chance to be able to shine and get some substance out. I thought Marco Rubio had a great debate. I thought Jeb Bush say well. Chris Christie, you know, Kasich. So I like listening to what they had to say. I think there was couple of missed opportunities with Ted Cruz that we showed, that didn't come off quite right with saying that he would leave the stage. It's like OK, enough of that. Let's sit here and let's talk about the issues and listen.

PERINO: What about from your point of view, Juan. What did you think about the debate?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I think there are two big winners. I think Rand Paul did a fabulous job. And again, that was the best debate from Rand Paul, who looked to me to be commanding, in control, and even conversationally. You know, previously, he's kind of interrupting a little bit of (inaudible). I don't think so last night. Last night I thought he was able to moderate that instinct and come across as if he had something to say on critical issues. He was informed.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, it's from a moment. Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. And the number two big winner, Jeb Bush. Best performance - - (inaudible). And I, you know, it makes you think. Is it because Van Halen was not on the stage, right?


WILLIAMS: Maybe because --

GUTFELD: David Lee Roth.

GUILFOYLE: David Lee Roth.

WILLIAMS: Or David Lee Roth. Is it because, you know, Trump gets in his head and he's always responding to Trump.

GUTFELD: You would go -- to your point. It's like -- a bully kid in a homeroom who realizes the bullies --

GUILFOYLE: Homesick.

GUTFELD: Homesick with a flu.


GUTFELD: It's like, now I can be myself again.


GUTFELD: He's not going to come up and hit me.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. And --

PERINO: And he had a chance to shine.

WILLIAMS: And I thought, I thought Rubio got into the back and forth over the immigration policy. And that was intriguing because on the one hand, you had Bush saying, "Yeah, you know, you were the leader of the "Gang of Eight" and we think this is a good idea." And then you have Cruz come out of him and say, "But wait, you were the leader of the "Gang of Eight." And it wasn't the good of idea." But the real trap for him was, "you say that you're not for a pathway to citizenship." He says, "yeah, but I'm for amnesty -- what does he mean?


GUILFOYLE: That's the next Roth.

PERINO: We have, we have more to come on that. Eric, let me get your reaction to this. Jeb Bush is winning a lot of praise, Juan just mentioned it, and other pundits say, despite of being his best debate performance yet. And here was the moment when he defended being part of the, quote, "republican establishment."


JEB BUSH, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm in the establishment because my dad, the greatest man alive was president of the United States and my brother who I adore well is a fantastic brother was president, fine, I'll take it. And I'm -- I guess I'm part of the establishment because Barbara Bush is my mom. I'll take too.


But this election -- this election is not about pedigree, this is election about people that, who are really hurting. And we need a leader that will fix things and have a proven record to do it.


PERINO: So that's always something that Jeb Bush has had to deal with because his dad and his brother were both presidents. The family has been in the public eye for so long. And Bush fatigue (ph) has sort of set in. But do you agree he had a better debate last night?

BOLLING: I think everyone had a better debate last night. Across the board, John Kasich had a good debate. I agree with you. Rand Paul had his best debate.


BOLLING: He went back to the libertarian principles that he's been, you know, been so (inaudible) about for so long. He varied away from it for a while, didn't work, and he got back to libertarian --

WILLIAMS: And do you know what I heard from Greg?

BOLLING: It was good --

WILLIAMS: You know what I heard from Greg? That Rand Paul had a lot of those college students.


WILLIAMS: . in the arena, so --

BOLLING: Well, he did.


BOLLING: He gave away --

PERINO: But they were kind of annoying.

BOLLING: . instead of giving it to people that --


BOLLING: Who may -- he went with college kids, and they are allowed and support it.

WILLIAMS: Well, the question is. Do those college kids show up for caucuses? I don't know.

PERINO: I think they probably will. Well, what it was like because -- watching on TV, any time Rand Paul said anything, they screamed and yelled and it was kind of annoying.

GUTFELD: Well, this is a tradition among the Paul family. This is what happened with Rand Paul.

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah.

GUTFELD: He always used to have followers at CPAC, there would be -- with signs. But when they yelled, "stand with Rand," I would shout, "sit with Mitt" just to confuse them. You know that when Jeb said about his dad being the greatest man alive, that was a direct jab at Bill O'Reilly.


GUTFELD: And I thought it was unnecessary.

PERINO: Everybody was attacking Fox News last night.


PERINO: It's true.

BOLLING: . on Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz, because he had the center podium, had the opportunity to own the number one spot, to see what it feels like to be the frontrunner. He's been trailing, trailing and he wants it so badly. And I think Kimberly is right, he just -- he didn't bring it home.

PERINO: You know what he --

BOLLING: He was rounding third and he is just kind of stumbled, he got tagged down --

WILLIAMS: You know what you got to do? You got to tell him -- you got to tell him about --

BOLLING: He's not finish.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, wait.

BOLLING: He's not finish.

WILLIAMS: Tell him about the Des Moines Register front page.

BOLLING: Front page of Des Moines Register, Ted Cruz had a rough, rough night for Ted Cruz.


BOLLING: And I'll -- to give you one other story, all day today, we've been following the candidates throughout Iowa, they're going to different caucuses, different colonies. And Ted Cruz didn't want to talk about his debate last night.


BOLLING: And that is a good indicator.

WILLIAMS: Guess what, guess what.

BOLLING: And do you know who did? Marco Rubio wanted to talk about --

WILLIAMS: Yeah, absolutely.

BOLLING: It was great debate.


PERINO: But it was interesting because there was -- I talked to a friend, Kimberly, who said that he typically does the thing Ted Cruz does well in this debate? But he thought that Ted Cruz had his best debate last night.


PERINO: So I guess it's all down to an interpretation.

GUILFOYLE: And I guess it's gonna come down to how, you know, Iowa and the caucus goers are going to interpret and see. But I definitely feel that Ted Cruz does better with Donald Trump, you know, on the stage with him to be able to spar back and forth and to be able to engage. Ted Cruz is the master debater. There is no doubt about it. But everybody up there, I think is getting better at doing this and coming across with their ideas.

PERINO: But I want to ask --

GUILFOYLE: It could happen with practice.

PERINO: I want to ask about a candidate we haven't mentioned yet. And Greg, let me go to you, because Dr. Ben Carson has a lot of support in Iowa. I thought he sort of faded.


PERINO: . into the background last night, as he has in other debates but, what was it like from the crowd last night?

GUTFELD: He is -- everybody likes him because he just -- he doesn't - he seems to be enjoying himself. But there is also this sneaking suspicion that he knows he's not gonna be president. So he is just there enjoying himself, and you know see what happens next. Can I -- just, I don't mean to pile on Cruz, but he -- there's -- he seems to be in a state of perpetual annoyance. It's like he always smelling sour milk.

PERINO: Do you know somebody like that?



GUTFELD: That's why I put my support for Ted Cruz, a man after my own heart.


PERINO: All right. I want you to take a look at this sound bite, because throughout his campaign and tenure in the Senate, many have criticized Ted Cruz for not being likable. And last night, he was pressed about his electability, without the support of many in Washington.


CRUZ: I am not the candidate of career politicians in Washington.


And I'll tell you the endorsement that I am proud of are the over 200,000 volunteers across this country who have signed up to volunteer for our campaign.

Washington is broken and the people I have been accountable to every single day in the Senate are the 27 million Texan who I represent. And I made a promise to them that i make to you today, which is if I am elected, every single day I will do two things -- tell the truth.


And do what I said I would do.


PERINO: Juan, he's been fairly successful at saying and kind of proving his mettle as an outsider, even though he is an insider in Washington.

WILLIAMS: He is. He is a United States senator. In fact, I -- what caught my ear in that little sound bite, Dana, was that he says, "Washington is broken" as a way of condemning the career politicians. So he would think that the next statement would be, "and I'm here to fix it. I'm here with my solutions." Instead, he plays the strong anti-establishment card as if he is not Harvard law. He's not a Supreme Court law clerk. He didn't involve himself with the Bush resolution out of Florida as a top lawyer for the campaign. He does -- he acts like none of this ever happened and he has, you know, flown in from mars -- not true.

BOLLING: You know --

WILLIAMS: And yet --

BOLLING: You know, can you at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he has those things did happen, but they happened a long time ago.


BOLLING: And since he did make it to the Senate, he's made himself an outsider as a senator. You'll admit.

WILLIAMS: Well, no. This --

BOLLING: . that even the republican senators don't love Ted Cruz that much, which make him call himself an outsider.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. But that doesn't make you an outsider. What makes you an outsider is if you have ideas that are innovative, different and challenge the status quo. And to the contrary, what he has done is alienate --

BOLLING: And you don't think he has that? You don't think he has that?

WILLIAMS: I haven't say --

BOLLING: He does do that. I think --

WILLIAMS: Well, if you tell me what is the --

BOLLING: I think that's what --


BOLLING: What he calls himself an outsider. It pushes back on.

WILLIAMS: If you have it --

BOLLING: . on this.

WILLIAMS: If you know of this -- if I'll listen to you for a second. But if you know this, what is the great idea Ted Cruz has brought to Washington to shake up the establishment?

BOLLING: But you know what? Look, I -- yes. You --

PERINO: Well, shutting down the government.

BOLLING: Well, he pushes away from -- right.

WILLIAMS: Everybody said that.

BOLLING: He shuts down -- he shut down the government --

GUTFELD: You know he's not outsider or insider.

BOLLING: And he also.

GUTFELD: He's an unsider (ph).

WILLIAMS: Unsider (ph).

BOLLING: And he also does -- he also has come up with some things you may not like about immigration that frankly aren't very popular with a lot of people who are establishment people in D.C.

WILLIAMS: OK. I just don't see that.

PERINO: All right, they're gonna --

WILLIAMS: . there are gonna great ideas.

PERINO: They want me to move on because it was a story that captured all the headlines before the debate; Donald Trump, not attending to address the elephant, not in the room last night. His opponents were asked about his decision.


CRUZ: I'm a maniac. And everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. And Ben, you're a terrible surgeon.


CRUZ: Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way --


RUBIO: Chris, let's begin by being clear what this campaign is about. It's not about Donald Trump.

BUSH: I kind of miss Donald Trump. He was a little teddy bear to me. We always had such a loving relationship during in these debates and in between, and the tweets -- I kind of miss him. I wish he was here.


PERINO: So Greg, they were trying to make fun of David Lee Roth.


PERINO: So to speak.

GUTFELD: You win and you lose with this, because there is -- everybody says that they want substance, but they also want excitement. And it's kind of like, what is the best part of the cake, the frosting. And Donald Trump is promising a whole cake made of frosting. And we're going, is that possible? Could we have a whole cake made of frosting?" And Trump is saying, yeah. I'm that cake. I'm 100 percent frosting -- lick me.


WILLIAMS: Oh! Oh my, God. Oh boy.

GUILFOYLE: OK -- coming up.


PERINO: I don't know where it goes with that, Kimberly, so I'll turn it over to you.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly.


BOLLING: Congratulations.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, why not. When it comes to food, edibles and what not, I'm your girl. OK, so, yeah. I think it was the -- definitely, you miss his presence, his feel, his energy in the room. I thought the way Jeb Bush handle it, it was kind of cute and charming. He's a teddy bear to me. I miss him here tonight and the tweets back and forth. That was a nice humorous was way to do it. It was like, kind of classy to stay above, you know, the fray. And still a lot of discussion was -- was this going to hurt Donald Trump by not being on the stage? Well, so far today, it doesn't seem like it did.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I think --

PERINO: Do you think --

WILLIAMS: I think, you know, it takes it more like the cream pie in the face. And I think he threw a pie in the face at Fox News and he threw a pie in the face though, at Iowa voters. He didn't show up. So he said he has this event for the veterans, et cetera. Come on, who's buying that? What really astounded me was that Santorum and Huckabee show up. I'm like, wait a second. What is going on? Have those guys conceded? I guess so. But I -- let me just say, day after, it looks good for Trump. I don't that it looks good for the Republican Party that he got away with that.

PERINO: All right, last to Eric's point.

BOLLING: Last word -- so a lot of people are gonna pushback on all of, you know, you have the Trump group that's gonna pushback on Fox. And Fox -- the other groups, they're gonna pushback on Trump. I'll tell you what you did see last night, it was really, really proud to see that. Well, you saw a fair and tough moderator. It's all three of them asked very tough questions. And wasn't just one or two, everyone got a fair shot on some tough questions, so --


BOLLING: Hats off to Megyn, Bret and Chris. They did a great job with that.

GUILFOYLE: And Hemmer and Martha.

BOLLING: And Hemmer and Martha as well, yeah.

GUTFELD: And me.

BOLLING: And Greg.


PERINO: And definitely you.


PERINO: Definitely you. All right, coming up, one of the most contentious moments of the night came when Megyn Kelly pressed both Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio on their immigration records. So who won that battle? We'll gonna discuss that when we come back.

And later, it's Facebook Friday. Post your questions for us now on, and we'll answer some of those, ahead.


GUILFOYLE: And we're back now, live from Iowa with more of our debate breakdown. Immigration was certainly a red hot topic last night. Both Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz tried to defend their shifting views on the issue.


RUBIO: I do not support blanket amnesty.


RUBIO: I do not support amnesty.

KELLY: You said more on that, Senator.

RUBIO: No. I said I do not support blanket legalization --

KELLY: You said earned path to citizenship is basically code for amnesty.

RUBIO: It was.

KELLY: You supported earned path to citizenship.

RUBIO: It absolutely has been. And at the time and the context of that was in 2009 and 2010, where the last effort for legalization was an effort done in the Senate. It was an effort led by several people that provided almost an instant path, with very little obstacles moving forward. What I've always said is this issue does need to be solved. They've been talking about this issue for 30 years, and nothing ever happens.

CRUZ: I have a detailed immigration plan that is on my website, It was designed with Iowa's own Congressman Steve King and Jeff Sessions, and --


CRUZ: We have the tools in federal law to do this now. We can build the fence. We can triple the border patrol. We can end sanctuary city by cutting off.


CRUZ: . funding to them. We can end welfare for those here illegally. And what is missing is the political will, because too many democrats and sadly, too many republicans don't want to solve this problem.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, great question by Megyn on that. Then they exchanged fire.


RUBIO: This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on and to Rand, touch upon on it. That he is the most conservative guy and everyone else is -- you know, everyone else is a rhino. The truth is Ted, throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes.

CRUZ: The facts are simple. When he ran for election in state of Florida, he told the people of Florida, "If you elect me, I will lead the fight against amnesty." When I ran in Texas, I told the people of Texas, if you elect me, I will lead the fight against amnesty. We both made the identical promises. But when we came to Washington we made a different choice. Marco made the choice to go the direction of the major donors to support amnesty because he thought it was politically advantageous.


CRUZ: I honored my commitments.


GUILFOYLE: All right, one of the best moments of the debate last night, the back and forth between Rubio and Cruz. Hear them from the candidates themselves, and a little bit of sparring. And Juan, you like this.

WILLIAMS: I thought it was terrific because I think it was (inaudible) of people who were, on the one hand saying, I was trying to get something done on a critical issue for the country. That's Marco Rubio. And then you have Cruz saying, well, no, actually, you were standing with the establishment. You're standing with Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid; the bad guys for these purposes here on the debate. And then you have Jeb Bush coming in and say, well, wait a second. You know what? Amnesty and -- is not a necessarily a negative and resolving the issue with 12 million illegals. There's something to be said of it, but he didn't. That's early takes five. But I thought where it got good is when one guy says, you're trying the play whatever is politically expedient, just to get elected, and that's not gonna make you a good president. I thought Rubio scored big with that point.

GUILFOYLE: That was a hard hit, a nice punch and a counterpunch. Bolling.

BOLLING: Yeah and it need -- to Rubio, did I agree. He did hit hard. But the amnesty issue is the dividing issue. It's the issue that a lot -- some would say, many people would believe it what separates the real firm conservatives from the ones who are less conservative -- the swishy, whatever you want to call it. Rubio said rhino or whatever. Is there a path to amnesty? There's a path to amnesty. You're likely not going to be considered a true conservative. I mean -- it's off the table for the ones who say, "I'm too conservative. There's n there's no path to amnesty. We'll secure the border. We'll figure out on what we gonna do with the 12 million who are here already. But that -- how they get back or they did get back to the line to get to stay. But the amnesty part of being able to stay, being a citizen or being a vote, even further down the row, is what to separate - - the wedge issue. And I think, although, Rubio did score with a punch on there. If you take where they stand, that's still is the difference between the two of them.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that was the moment, Dana, that Ted Cruz could have capitalized on against Rubio. Do you think that they made the case?

PERINO: Not necessarily. I actually think that this has been going on in all of the debates. And even if you go back to the mid-term election in 2012 -- I'm sorry, 2014. This issue comes up over and over again. And to me, immigration, unfortunately, has become like this new litmus test for the Republican Party. It's like global warming is for the democrats, it becomes this box checking exercise. It's not gay marriage this time. It's not even legalization of marijuana. It's become immigration. And the thing is -- I just feel like governing. There is so much different from campaigning. And solving this problem is much more gray than it is black and white. And so making it -- turning -- trying to turn it into a box checking exercise is not helpful to actually solving the problem if we are worried about wages or if we're worried about security. Also things have been take a lot of effort to try to get solved. Campaign slogans are not gonna do it.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, amen. And Eric, that's it's -- you know what, you can say, does this make you a true conservative or not a true conservative. But I think a lot of people, including Donald Trump, who has really made this the issue for this campaign would say, "Something has to be done. We've got to find a way to deal with this issue."

BOLLING: Maybe he does believe that, but I will tell you that from the far- right conservative base, it's no amnesty.


PERINO: And a mass deportation. I mean that's -- Donald Trump's position is mass deportation with --

WILLIAMS: I mean how realistic is that?

PERINO: I mean how many people you gonna deport a day, $750?


PERINO: Seventy five hundred people a day?

BOLLING: You can actually bring them in over time the right way, through the right doors, as what Greg point out.

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on.

BOLLING: Rather than.



GUILFOYLE: Obviously, this is a very tough issue. Not only for, you know, candidates to be able to secure the republican nomination, but then it gets even more dicey when you get to the general election and trying to get some independence for the moderates to come over to your side, to win the White House, Greg. So how do they have to sell this in Senate?

GUTFELD: Well, at first, I want to echo, Eric, that if anybody who watch -- who thinks that there was Fox News plays favorites, that throws that out the window - because that was the toughest question against Rubio and Cruz, and they're two different candidates. It was incredibly fair. I disagree with you about immigration defining the intensity of your conservatism. I think its Trump's ideology. I don't think somebody who is anti-immigration to the far, far, far extreme has almost no, no other issue matters. I mean, Ann Coulter said, she said that, remember?


GUTFELD: She doesn't care if Trump performs abortions in the White House, because she supports him on immigration. So, but interesting to me is you have a Canadian --


GUTFELD: Cuban-Canadian and a Cuban-American fighting over who gets into this country. And it really is about, it is not about people. It's about border policy and border control. This is -- America is the greatest nightclub on the planet. But you don't go through the window, you go through the door. And the president, in a sense is the bouncer.


GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, America was, you know, a VP bouncer, because we want to secure our borders. And it's also.

GUTFELD: That I said --


GUTFELD: Support of Christie?


GUILFOYLE: Is also part of our broader.

BOLLING: Why you so anti-women?

GUILFOYLE: National security --

BOLLING: A woman can't be president?

GUILFOYLE: I like (inaudible) don't I?


GUILFOYLE: All right. And today, those candidates are making a mad dash across Iowa, making last-minute pitches before Monday. We check in with campaign Carl, next. Stay with us.


BOLLING: Welcome back to "The Five," live in Iowa. The debate is over now. The final sprint. The GOP candidates are fanned out across this state with only 72 hours to go or so.

Let's check in now with Campaign Carl for more, but I have to do this. A control room, show everyone where Carl is. This is amazing. Can you do it? Warmer, warmer. Campaign Carl. Right across the lobby from us.

Tell us. So Carl, tell us what the candidates did today. Who is feeling - - who is feeling that they did well and who is a little nervous about last night?

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, we got here, and we want to apologize to anybody we may have, like, sped past as we were coming down earlier today for the Jeb Bush event that was taking place about two hours from here.

It's now totally organizing time. The candidates are essentially letting a lot of their criticisms of one another go. They'll still go after Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. But the Republican criticism is going to subside now, because the candidates absolutely have to organize and motivate their ground troops. And the way they do that is by being energetic, by being enthusiastic and making the voters feel hopeful and positive about their candidacies to go out on what may be a snowy night on Monday.

So that's really what it is. The tone has changed. It's not quite as much sort of the interparty argument and violence as it is just trying to get their voters to show up for them.

BOLLING: Dana is up, Carl.

PERINO: I wanted to ask you if you thought that any of the candidates last night made a convincing final argument. And for those who might have been undecided in Iowa, have you heard from anyone that last night changed anybody's mind?

CAMERON: There is some sense that Marco Rubio did a pretty good job, and that people who have been on the fence and really didn't have somewhere they were leaning are now leaning his way.

And frankly, from the Jeb Bush event that we were at just a little while ago, a lot of people thought that he had probably his best debate of the cycle so far, largely because he was not getting insulted by Donald Trump.


WILLIAMS: So Carl, on "America's Newsroom" today, Marco Rubio seemed to indicate that, unless Cruz wins Iowa, he thinks it's a big plot, because he says Cruz has put more time in, more appearances, more money, has more people in those, I guess, dorm rooms than any other Republican candidate. What do you think?

CAMERON: It's an interesting criticism for, rather, trying to raise the expectations for Ted Cruz. It's a pretty interesting move for Marco, because it points out that he has not been here as much as a lot of the other candidates and, frankly, Iowans are pretty jealous about getting to interact with politicians.

So Marco is, in a way, pointing out that Cruz has been doing it the way the voters like it here. And that he, Marco, hasn't been very much.

But raising the expectations for one's rivals is a big part of the three- dimensional chess that's Iowa. You don't have to necessarily win coming in first or second or third. What you have to do is beat certain people. So for somebody like Marco Rubio, if he comes ahead of Jeb Bush and comes ahead of John Kasich and Chris Christie, even if he's fourth, that's better than them, and it positions him better in New Hampshire as a consequence.


GUILFOYLE: Momentum is so much of this in terms of going in to the, you know, days preceding this big decision that really kind of, you know, sets the stage for expectation levels for the rest of the primary season.

What are you getting the sense in terms of who is really the one that won last night, that had the most momentum and the biggest kind of bounce from it.

CAMERON: Ted Cruz obviously got the lion's share of the attention. There are some reviews who say he didn't do a particularly good job, because in some cases he was caustic.

But if there is momentum, it's very hard to detect it, and a lot of times, what happens is polls take the place of the sense of momentum in Iowa. And that is a huge mistake. The polls are notoriously wrong.

We know who the frontrunners are. The momentum doesn't really even appear until basically today and tomorrow. We know who the front-runners. We know that Marco Rubio is contesting for third and that there's going to be, perhaps, a search for Ben Carson, who's been spending a tremendous amount of time in Iowa for the last year and was organized early on.

So momentum is a relative thing. You can win the Iowa caucuses with as few as 40,000 votes. And for some of these candidates, they have been picking them up and getting their commitments on paper for the last year. Whether they show up on Monday could be determined by whether or not it snows.

BOLLING: Right. Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: There was an odd moment during the debate. It might have been near the end when Cruz went to talk to the other candidates, and they all kind of, like, moved away from them. Do they not -- do they not like him?

CAMERON: Body language says a lot in this game. All of the candidates in one fashion or another, whether it came directly from their mouths or whether their staffers are whispering it into reporter's ears, continue to make the argument that Cruz is unlikable. Donald Trump was really the guy who pushed this the hardest.

And so what you saw last night was, not a lot of interest from the rest of the rivals in cozying up with Cruz, because Cruz has been very tough in the last month going after most of them.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there. Carl, we'll wave to you as -- on the way out after the show. Carl, Campaign Carl.

Up next, amidst bombshell new developments over Hillary Clinton's e-mails, Juan hit the campaign trail today to chat with some of his supporters. What they had to say about the scandal-plagued candidate and "Facebook Friday" still ahead. So don't go anywhere.


WILLIAMS: Breaking developments today regarding Hillary Clinton's e-mails. The State Department says twenty-two e-mails containing top-secret information were among her e-mails that were sent forth and will be made public -- will not be made public. Hillary Clinton's campaign, however, demanding that the e-mails be made public and released.

As you can imagine, Secretary Clinton did not go unscathed last night on this issue. Chris Christie delivered one of the strongest attacks against her.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you know why the Republican Party will want to take a chance on me? Because they know that Hillary Clinton will never be prosecuted by this Justice Department and they're going to want to put a former federal prosecutor on the stage to prosecute her next September.

And there is no one on the stage better qualified to prosecute the case against Hillary Clinton than I am. I will be ready. I will take her on. When I take heron, I guarantee one thing. She will never get within 10 miles of the White House. The days for the Clintons in public housing are over.


WILLIAMS: So how is the scandal affecting her supporters? Well, I hit the campaign earlier here in Iowa to chat with some of them. Outside one of her events at Grand View University here in Des Moines. And I must tell you, it doesn't come up. They don't seem to be reacting. And yet, the minute that I run into news people, the minute that I come back here, boy, everybody is talking about it.

Obviously, the Clinton people say, you know what? Those e-mails were not marked top-secret when they were sent and received by Hillary Clinton. But I must tell you, it seems like the heat is building.

GUTFELD: Juan, they're -- the story is they are holding something like 7,000 e-mails until after these primaries. It's like the Democratic Party sees her as a used car that they've got to get off the lot before the bumper falls off. They can't -- the more they find out about her, the worse it gets.

PERINO: A lemon. It's a lemon.

GUTFELD: It's a lemon. She's a lemon.

GUILFOYLE: It's really true. Right now, they're having like, I hope Biden is regretting that he did not get in, because he should have, because this just goes to prove it. I like what Chris Christie had to say. That was strong. It was tough. And I think he's right. And I think they're going to recommend FBI is going to recommend that she be indicted. Because if you look at the evidence, as a lawyer, as I have, I'm telling you, she is in trouble. And I think that's also why she desperately wants to get in the White House.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, Dana, one of the things that I heard when I was at Grand View today, was people saying Bernie Sanders has a lot of energy among young people. And that's just not to be denied here in Iowa.

So the question is, do those young people come out and caucus for him? Or does Hillary's organization carry the day?

PERINO: Well, you asked something earlier about Rand Paul, and could he get young people out? I think young people are more engaged in this election than they have been before. These millennials are more mature, and they also understand that they have more on the line.

Some of them want to go with the Bernie Sanders way. I don't think that's such a good idea for their future. But can I talk about these e-mails for a second?


PERINO: She is asking the State Department to release the e-mails. She is asking them to commit a felony just like she committed. In addition, the reason why her e-mails were not marked classified is that we know that what she was having staff do at her instruction was to make them non-paper. Remember, this is a person who knows nothing about technology but knows enough to say, make it non-paper.

So we take off the declassification. You summarize it. you send it over. When they're saying that there are 22 e-mails that are so secretive they cannot be released to the public, she's trying to hide behind that. You know the one person who could make all these documents if he decided to, if he thinks they're so benign is Barack Obama.

The president has the power to declassify. And if he wants to help her and he thinks that this is a good idea, he should do it.


BOLLING: So here's how it works. The FBI will do the investigation. The FBI answers to the DOJ. The DOJ is basically answering to the White House. The White House appoints and, you know, gets -- gets the person to run the DOJ.

So Chris Christie -- yes, Kimberly -- did talk tough. It sounded great because he's a former federal prosecutor. However, I guarantee you there are seven people on that stage last night, given the opportunity as president to, as Dana points out, to have his DOJ lean on the FBI to go forth with the investigation and have the DOJ investigate, what? By the way, did we even say the reason why the FBI didn't want to release the e- mails?


BOLLING: Because they were too dangerous. Lives may be at stake if they release them.

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes. Well, let's not...

GUILFOYLE: She put her own convenience and circumvented the law and put other people's lives in danger. That's the problem. For her convenience. That's your commander in chief?

WILLIAMS: I think that your -- the strength of your argument is, in fact, that she did something for her convenience that was not, was not withstanding administration policy and makes her seem like she's entitled and privileged.



WILLIAMS: ... do you agree?

GUTFELD: I'm just preparing for "Facebook Friday."

WILLIAMS: My gosh.

GUTFELD: We were supposed to tease. We have a thousand questions.

WILLIAMS: But I must say, there is a lot of excitement amid Republican circles. Maybe Hillary is in trouble. So stay right there. "Facebook Friday" right up, next.


GUTFELD: "Facebook Friday," my favorite "Facebook Friday" of the week.

Dana, I'm going to go to you first. This is from Jeff.

PERINO: All right.

GUTFELD: "Which candidate would you most like to have a beer with and why?"

PERINO: Could I change that to red wine, Jeff?


PERINO: Bernie Sanders.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: I want to get in his head. I want to figure this out.

GUTFELD: Glad you said "head."

GUILFOYLE: You might never escape. Seriously.

GUTFELD: Very funny. Eric.

BOLLING: I would like to have a beer with Chris Christie. He's my governor, and I've been hard on him. And I think -- I like him. I think he is a really fun, likable guy. You know, my leaning on him has to do with some of his policy stuff. But I'd like to have a beer with Christie.

GUTFELD: Juanzo.

WILLIAMS: Boy, I don't get this. Everybody should want to have a beer with Donald Trump. I mean, he's...

GUTFELD: He doesn't drink.

GUILFOYLE: He doesn't drink.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well he's going to drink after I got through with his ass.


WILLIAMS: I mean, Donald...

GUILFOYLE: A Twitter war coming on.

WILLIAMS: Donald Trump, wouldn't he say the most, the wildest...

PERINO: You would probably drive him to drink.

WILLIAMS: That's what I was trying to say, Dana.

GUTFELD: We need alcohol. He doesn't need it.

WILLIAMS: He's high on life.

GUTFELD: Yes, right.

GUILFOYLE: Right. He's like get up early and do a thousand events. He's good to go.

I would like to have a beer with Jeb Bush. I would. I love the Bush family. Fantastic.

GUTFELD: Have a Busch, with the Bush.

GUILFOYLE: Have an Anheuser-Busch with the Bush. Different spelling, but yes.

GUTFELD: I've been thinking about this. I don't know if I would want to have a drink with any of the, because people that -- how do you have a real conversation with somebody who's trying to sell themselves to you?

BOLLING: Better question: Would any of them have a beer with us?


GUTFELD: That is true.

PERINO: You would have a beer with Dr. Carson. Because you've got so many neuroses.

GUTFELD: He could diagnose me. It would be, like, one long therapy.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. He could do brain surgery.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true. Well, he'd have to find a brain.

All right. Jason. Start with Eric. "Did we really learn anything new from any of the candidates last night compared to the last debate?"

BOLLING: Well, yes. I think what you saw was two full hours of them talking policy, going back and forth at each other. And I think -- and I said it earlier. I think Ted Cruz had the opportunity to really grab it. Ted Cruz will be in the top three on Monday night. No question. He just - - he's been there. He will be.

People of Iowa will put him in the top three. Was he going to make it to the No. 1 spot? And again, I don't think his -- his answers last night. I don't think his response with Rubio and the jokes. I just think they kind of fell flat with me.

GUTFELD: Yes. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think we learned something about Donald Trump. He can be petty at times, and he can take slights to an extreme. You just -- I was just surprised. I also thought at the last minute he's going to show up. He didn't show up. And, you know, he thinks that he's in control. He got it. But I just -- I wonder what it says about Trump at some point.

GUTFELD: Yes. Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: OK. So last night I think, because just the dynamic of it was different with having Ted Cruz in the center seat and sort of getting rapid-fire from everybody else. I think that was important to kind of see how he handles it, how he took that. And that's part of the evaluation that, you know, people will make. He held his own, certainly. But we don't see him kind of bragging about debate results like we discussed.


PERINO: Anything new. Policy wise, I thought that one of best questions came from Bret Baier, and Chris Christie dodged it. Probably smartly. It was a question of entitlement spending. If you're trying to get the government under control, what was one government program you could point to that the government should not pay for. He sort of dodged and went to Planned Parenthood.

GUTFELD: What I learned last night is I think I saw three people on that stage who could beat Hillary.


GUTFELD: That's what I learned.

PERINO: And who was that?

GUTFELD: I won't say who they are.

Last question, and you can only answer with one word. With one word. You're close to the answer. This is from Rudolph: "How do you like your corn on the cob, boiled, broiled, baked or in your gas tank?"

Kimberly, start...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, everyone. We are here in the New York City newsroom here in the studio. "The Five," they are there in Des Moines, Iowa, holding it down, and we are going to come right back in a moment.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (AUDIO GAP) ... on the campaign trail. "The Five," they are there holding down the fort in Des Moines, Iowa. We understand that Hillary Clinton is on the campaign trail there in Dubuque, as well as all the other candidates vying for the White House. It is the place to be, Iowa we're talking about.

Now before we went to break, "The Five," the guys were talking about many important issues in terms of who won the debate last night and who didn't win, who -- who got the biggest bump in the polls, et cetera. And of course, they went on to have some likes there, if you will. They were discussing which candidates they would like to have a beer with to kind of get inside their head and understand sort of what makes them tick. I can't remember which one said it. But one of them said, well, who would want to have a beer with us is the question.

OK, I think the guys are back up and running. Hi, guys.

GUILFOYLE: Hey! Thank you!

PERINO: That was just a temporary blip. But we've got time for a little bit of "One More Thing." I told the people of Iowa no politics from me today. I am talking about their dogs.

Take a look at these pictures. Do we have those that we can pull up here? Pictures of dogs in Iowa. Dogs in sunsets in Iowa. I don't even know if we have them. There they are. Look at this. Dean Baldwin. I'm not going through all of them. Maggie Moo. I love people and their dogs. And when you -- just when you think you can't get along with people with regard to politics, remember, we all love our pets. I even included a cat.

GUTFELD: That's not a cat.

PERINO: Kimberly, yours.

GUILFOYLE: You know, I've been talking about, you know, how much I love pork products like bacon, et cetera. And I've got a big surprise for everybody for tomorrow. But in the meantime, I want to thank FiveFanPhotoShop for crowning me the Iowa pork queen. Can you see that? And look at Jasper.

BOLLING: What's that? A crown made of bacon?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. What happened was, I'm actually the real winner. Steve Harvey called the wrong winner so I am the true winner.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say -- let me just quickly tell you. I'll skip my "One More Thing" to tell you this, that last night I'm traveling from New York to Des Moines with Kimberly, and there's a guy there in Hillary regalia, and he can't stop talking to Kimberly Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: He was all excited.

PERINO: You can't blame him.

GUILFOYLE: Pretty fired up, let me tell you.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my goodness.

BOLING: And I got to sit with Juan.

OK, so we're doing this thing on Facebook. It's really cool. Go to our Facebook page. It's called "The Five's" Iowa Escapades, and we're taking pictures and it's a lot of fun. So check it out. "The Five."

PERINO: I'll ask Greg to put his -- I know. Greg is going to put his "One More Thing" on Twitter, I guess.

All right. We're back here tomorrow for a special Saturday edition of "The Five" live from Iowa. And again on Monday, election day. "Special Report" up next.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

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