Democratic presidential candidates hold town forum in Iowa

Sorry, Benghazi victims; the Democratic presidential frontrunner has moved on


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 26, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I'm Gretchen Carlson with
Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, and she sleds on a bottle
cap -- Dana Perino, "The Five."

Last night on something called CNN, they held a special episode of
"Survivor for Socialists" where Hillary was asked about her e-mail. I bet
she's not saying it was an error in judgment because nothing she did was
wrong. It was not in any way prohibited.


error in judgment, because what -- nothing that did I was wrong. It was
not, it was not in any way prohibited.


GUTFELD: Hmm. Yeah, cut and pasting classified info into unclassified
arenas is totally legit, according to no one with a license to practice

And I wonder if she said Benghazi is only still an issue because the
Republicans want to keep it an issue. They know it. I know it.


CLINTON: This is only still an issue because the Republicans want to keep
it an issue. They know it. I know it.


It's already been eight investigations, most of them by Republicans in the
Congress. The House Intelligence Committee, the House Armed Services
Committee, and what did they conclude? That there were problems that night,
but they were ones that we should look at, not from the perspective of
placing blame or pointing fingers, but...


GUTFELD: You can't point fingers. But look, she's not wrong. The Republicans are making it an issue because it is supposed to be an issue. She falsely pushed the video and lied to the grieving families. And now she wants everyone to move on. That's the cry of a criminal or spouse caught in the act. But complaining that the Republicans want to keep the story of Benghazi alive, that's pathetic. Would she complain if it wasn't Benghazi, but the story was about Sandy Hook or Charleston? She's complaining about people doing the right thing. Who cares if it's political? Shut up. And
what exactly should we focus instead? Her good points, i.e., her treatment
of Bill's women, her casual disdain for national security, her wonderful




GUTFELD: But any criticism can be recast as an attack on her. She's the victim, a woman, no less, which affords her immunity. So say feminists denying their own hypocrisy. Sure, the Benghazi dead spent 13 hours in hell, but she was questioned almost as long.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Did you tell them it was about the film? And what's your response?

CLINTON: No. You know, look, I understand the continuing grief at the loss that parents experienced with the loss of these four brave Americans. And I did testify, as you know, for 11 hours. And I answered all of these questions. Now, I can't -- I can't help if the people think there has to be something else there.


GUTFELD: So sorry, Benghazi dead. Your story is over. And why? Because Hillary has moved on to bigger and better things. And you're not included.

So last night was quite a barn burner, KG. The Town Hall, it was explosive.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, but it just goes to show
her attitude. She feels very entitled to the presidency, to be commander-
in-chief. She doesn't care that she's epically failed for forward, that
she'd lost American lives, that she's got blood on her hands. Not to
mention the fact that she has, in fact, endangered our national security,
put people's lives on the line because of her recklessness with respect to
her e-mail server. She really doesn't seem to care. And in fact, she has
martyred herself by saying that she, OK, she testified for 11 hours. Did
she pull an almightier and stay up all night, while Americans were being
slaughtered in Benghazi and she stood by and did nothing?

GUTFELD: Hmm. Fair question.

There's a Fox News poll, Juan, that's basically saying the top, the
democratic quality among democratic voters is being honest and trustworthy.
So when you see Hillary, she does not appear to have that trait in spades.
She is about as trustworthy as a used car salesman.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, I think that's not true, but
I think that is the case that you're right. The poll is pretty clear that
that's what the voter's value. And when it comes to honesty and
trustworthy, she is close to bottom of the barrel. But I must say the
bottom of the barrel would be the people who were leading the republican,
side of the thing. If you ask people about Trump, about Cruz, I think they
come in like at 27 percent and 17 percent. Hillary comes in at 30 plus, so
it mean -- clearly, people are looking at other issues to reflect their
anger, reflect their concerns, reflect their needs, and Hillary, at the
moment, I thought had a very good moment last night in that town hall that
you have so ridiculed her for. When she was asked by a young person, hey,
so why did they throw all these garbage at you?


WILLIAMS: Exactly the kind of thing that you are talking about in a

GUTFELD: Would you like to see that?

WILLIAMS: Sure, sure

GUTFELD: Would you like to see that sot Juan?

WILLIAMS: Go for it.

GUTFELD: Why don't I show the rest of America?

WILLIAMS: You go for it, big time.


CLINTON: You know, look, I've been around a long time. People have thrown
all kinds of things at me. And you know, I can't keep up with it, I just
keep going forward. They fall by the wayside. They come up with these
outlandish things, they make these charges. I just keep going forward
because there's nothing to it.


ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: It blows me away that you think that
was her finest moment...

WILLIAMS: That was terrific.

BOLLING: I literally wrote that down as her worst moment of the night.


WILLIAMS: So I thought it was terrific. Because she said, you know what?
I've been at the front line of change. And people who make change in this
country, they get beat up.

BOLLING: No, no. What I heard was a young person saying you're not very
trustworthy, and it has been knocked against you for a long time. She said
yeah, but people have been saying that for a long time. Well, that's


BOLLING: That people have thought you are untrustworthy for a very long
time. She walked right into that question. One thing I did -- look, the
takeaway for me was, now I know why they originally wanted only a handful
of debates for the DNC, for the democrats. She doesn't do well in this. She
does better in debates that she does in the town hall where people are
asking questions.


BOLLING: There's a whole bunch of conspiracy theories flying around that
CNN, they've gotten together and planted some of those. Apparently, they
didn't. I guess they didn't, but the way I understand it worked was people
ask questions and not toward a candidate. And CNN decided which candidate
got the question. Well, giving her that question was a bad idea -- for at
least in Hillary Clinton's camp -- eyes, it should be. She failed that.


BOLLING: She fumbled that one miserably.

WILLIAMS: You're wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Let me say you
something, she -- we even said, you know what? I was for, working for
single payer, the thing that Bernie Sanders talks about. And she said to
that, we couldn't get it done, but we tried to get it done for young
people. No. That worked for her.

GUTFELD: I want to get Dana in here. I was looking at this. She always
seems like a benevolent space alien on these town halls, like she's up
there and she's telling them this great knowledge, but it seem so cold and
orchestrated and fake.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, it was interesting when she
said that she did -- but she did nothing wrong with her, on the e-mail
scandal, which is really at odds with when she apologized...


PERINO: For having the server. I mean, because she -- apparently, like that
was what she thought three months ago, but now she feels like she can
weather the storm. The reason I didn't like her answer is that, yeah. She
just keeps on going because nothing sticks to her.

GUILFOYLE: That's wrong.


PERINO: That she can actually just lie about Benghazi on the video. The
video in particular, not necessarily the stand-down orders, I don't know
about that. But pushing the video, that was -- that was abhorrent. In
addition, Wendy Sherman; who was her top aide at the State Department in


PERINO: The report that Ed Henry had today, on Fox News, she brags about
how they have these new technologies.


PERINO: These Blackberry that were different from when she worked for
President Bill Clinton. And that they could actually share things that used
to be on classified systems can now be shared freely on Blackberry's, and
she's bragging about this. And this is a new video that would just -- came
out today that --


GUILFOYLE: Again, pokes hole in those arguments. Last thing I could -- if I
could say something about her benevolence and the whole likeability factor.
So last night at Eric's recommendation, I took a looked at that Showtime
show, "The Circus." And it's a 29-minute episode. And one of the people
that they follow is Bernie Sanders, his one of the first people. And, you I
haven't really spent much time getting to know him all that well. And
having watched that, he is very likable, and his wife -- obviously loves
him very much. There's this trustworthiness. And the contrast with Hillary
Clinton, it was quite stark for me.

BOLLING: And last night, I think that was highlighted as well. Whether you
disagree vehemently, like I do with Bernie Sanders's socialism and high
taxation, and you know, transfer of wealth and redistribution. He still
comes across as a much more relatable, likable candidate than Hillary
Clinton by far. And now it all makes sense. Now it makes sense why there
are so many GOP debates, and there were so few democrats. I think they just
plan another one.

WILLIAMS: You know what this is --

BOLLING: I think they just plan another town hall.

WILLIAMS: This is so curious to me that suddenly the four has become the
Bernie Sanders for president headquarters -- who knew?

GUTFELD: Well --

WILLIAMS: Well, I guess it is because you're so worried about --

BOLLING: For nominee, for nominee not for president.

WILLIAMS: Oh, not for president. I'm sorry.


WILLIAMS: But it's because you're so worried about Hillary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: No, we're not.

WILLIAMS: But I can't believe...


GUILFOYLE: We have disdain.

WILLIAMS: That you're now a bunch of supporting a socialist. And I like
Bernie Sanders, but I got to tell you something. I know Bernie Sanders.
I've dealt with Bernie Sanders.


WILLIAMS: And Bernie Sanders is a grumpy old man.


WILLIAMS: As Bernie Sanders is a grumpy guy.

GUTFELD: Well, let's -- speaking of the grumpy guy. We have some tape of
him from last night. Roll that tape.


BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our message has resonated much
faster, much further than I thought it would. And I think what the American
people are perceiving -- is there is something very wrong in this country.

I think we are touching a nerve with the American people who understand
that establishment politics is just not good enough. We need bold changes,
we need a political revolution.


GUTFELD: He always sounds like, Kimberly, that he's making a very specific
order at a delicatessen, by the egg salad. And make sure that there's not -
- not too much lettuce on it and that the bread be toasted --

GUILFOYLE: And you know what? I bet he gets what he asks for.

GUTFELD: Yes. Well, I hope he doesn't get what he asks for here, because
not a revolution.

GUILFOYLE: Well, no. I'm happy for him to get, you know, the nomination,
but we'll stop right there.



GUILFOYLE: There will be no free potato salad for you at the deli. But you
know, he is, he is somebody who is likable. People have been asking, oh,
you guys are (inaudible) -- yeah, because we're honest. We're telling it
like it is. The fact is he's more likable than Hillary Clinton.


GUILFOYLE: Should he be president? No. Is he a socialist? Yes. Does he want
a political revolution? Not on this country...

BOLLING: Why did you say no, Juan?

GUILFOYLE: Not on our watch.

BOLLING: Why do you say no?

WILLIAMS: I say --


BOLLING: It's the favorability, unfavorable -- ability on Bernie Sanders...

GUTFELD: He had story. He had his story.

BOLLING: Versus Hillary.


GUTFELD: I can tell you...

BOLLING: His story is like....

WILLIAMS: You know what.

BOLLING: Night and day between the two of them.

WILLIAMS: I'm going to tell you something. Let me tell you something. He
really doesn't like the fact that I even appear on "The Five." He really --


WILLIAMS: He doesn't like anybody who does --

GUTFELD: He's like our viewers.

PERINO: He knows that The Five exists?

WILLIAMS: I think he does.

PERINO: Well, that's --

WILLIAMS: And let me just say, he -- this is a grumpy person. He's a very
nice guy and I love some of the things he says. Because he says things --

GUILFOYLE: Well, right now --

WILLIAMS: That really would shake up to put --

GUILFOYLE: To liking us better than you, Juan.

PERINO: But you know what?

BOLLING: His favor --

WILLIAMS: I agree. Well, that's true.

BOLLING: His favorability was like 95 plus percent, unfavorable at 3

WILLIAMS: You were asking --

BOLLING: Hillary is underwater by 22 points.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.


WILLIAMS: And who is under attack constantly? Not Bernie.

BOLLING: Maybe you can't say that their -- but in that same world, likable,
favorable, unfavorable. Hillary is more likeable than a guy who is 93

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm saying personally, that if you know
this person personally --

PERINO: But he's like -- but he's grumpy.

WILLIAMS: But this is like what President Obama said the other day, that
you know, Bernie is a shiny new object. Everybody is like, oh, Bernie,
Bernie, Bernie. And Hillary, everybody knows Hillary. They've been
attacking her. It was for years.

GUTFELD: It's amazing that an elderly socialist for a democrat is a shiny
new object.

PERINO: Right. And also, it was really I thought very interesting to hear
that from President Obama, who, eight years ago was kicking her rear end in
Iowa --

GUTFELD: Watch your mouth.

PERINO: Saying the same thing about her.

GUTFELD: Yeah. That's true.

PERINO: Remember? That he was the big new shiny thing, and now he is making
fun of Bernie Sanders?


GUILFOYLE: Do you know what the big new shiny thing is in Iowa now?


GUILFOYLE: Us, "The Five."


GUTFELD: Yeah, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: We're going to be there.

GUTFELD: Uh- huh. That's a good transition, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: You're welcome.

GUTFELD: Well done. All right, up next. New developments in the GOP, that
stands for the grand old party Dana, yeah, including another endorsement
for Donald Trump, a big name in the evangelical community. Find out who
that is, when "The Five" return.


BOLLING: Donald Trump picked up another big endorsement today, Liberty
University president Jerry Falwell Jr. throwing his support behind the
frontrunner. With six days left to go, until Iowa voting, it could give him
a big boost among evangelical voters. And Trump just surged to a new high.
And yet another poll, 64 percent of republicans now say they expect him to
be the nominee. His opponents are clearly feeling the pressure. Ted Cruz,
just put out a new attack ad.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I lived in New York City in Manhattan
all my life, OK? So, you know, my views are a little bit different than if
I lived in Iowa.

NARRATOR: They are different, like on abortion.

partial-birth abortion?

TRUMP: Well, I'm very pro-choice, and I really respect --

NARRATOR: And what does Trump think about Iowa?

TRUMP: How stupid are the people of Iowa.

NARRATOR: Donald Trump. New York values not ours.


BOLLING: And of course, Donald is firing right back.


TRUMP: Cruz lies. He is a liar. And that's why nobody likes him. That's why
his Senate people won't endorse him. That's why he stands on the middle of
the Senate floor and can't make a deal with anybody. He looks like a jerk.
He's standing all by himself.


BOLLING: All right, so KG, big endorsement -- Jerry Falwell Jr., because
the evangelical vote in Iowa, the caucus goers, somewhere around 50 percent
of the evangelicals?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.


GUILFOYLE: Yeah, no more playing checkers. It is all about chess at this
point of who can get the best moves, and get the best endorsements to try
and get the final push here for the caucus voters. And you'll notice while
that ad was playing, that you know, Juan was cracking up, enjoying himself.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean you get --

GUILFOYLE: He didn't seem to be bothered...

WILLIAMS: Well, you know --

GUILFOYLE: Too much by it.

WILLIAMS: I didn't -- well, I thought the piece at the end, and I know that
the front people have complained about it, Kimberly that, in fact, they
took it out of context when he said Iowa was stupid because he was going on
about Ben Carson in his booking saying that he stopped some guy from
stabbing him or something --


WILLIAMS: Who's gonna believe that.

BOLLING: In full context...


BOLLING: At the time Ben Carson was leading in Iowa...


BOLLING: And Trump was saying --



WILLIAMS: But Trump was not saying in general...


WILLIAMS: People from Iowa are stupid.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And I don't think he thinks that, but the problem is Cruz
making these attacks about the New York values. That part, you know, I
didn't like. I say, wait a second. I thought that you were -- it's kind of
walking that back and not going to insult all the fine people that live in
the state of New York. That to me is a turnoff.

BOLLING: Yeah, that didn't work the first time for Cruz. It's going back at

GUTFELD: I love it because you have Trump calling him a liar and a jerk.
Then you have Cruz deriding New York values. This is not the firing line.
It's more like what's my line? It's got the subtly of a play ground fight,
which is inevitable with this kind of thing. But I'm more interested in
what we're going to do in Iowa, and I found some events for all of us.


GUILFOYLE: Do you know that -- Dana, there was a yoga workshop at the
Jasper Winery.

PERINO: Are you serious?

GUTFELD: That's on Friday.

PERINO: Are you serious?

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

PERINO: What time?

GUTFELD: And I thought we can go see --

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh. Now we're going to go.

GUTFELD: We can go see Hairball, that's a tribute heavy metal band playing
at the Fairgrounds. I was thinking...


GUTFELD: Juan, you and I could go to lefty's live music. There will be
Polish death metal.

WILLIAMS: What was that about?

GUTFELD: What about Kieltyka he's the guitarist for Decapitated. And
finally, the best for you, Kimberly, the Iowa Pork Congress starts


GUTFELD: And it's a great --


GUTFELD: It's a trade show all about swine. And they're going to crown the
Iowa Pork Queen.


PERINO: Oh my, God!


GUILFOYLE: Is it too late for a last-minute entry?

GUTFELD: That's the --

GUILFOYLE: I want to be the write-in...

GUTFELD: That is the concept.

PERINO: Write -in candidate.

GUILFOYLE: Write- in candidate.

WILLIAMS: I think so.

BOLLING: I think they're all last-minute entries --


GUILFOYLE: Let's stay up all night making publishers (ph).

GUTFELD: And you could be youth pork ambassador.


PERINO: I'll do that.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God. I would be an amazing Queen of Pork.


GUILFOYLE: Don't you think?

BOLLING: Yeah --


GUTFELD: The (inaudible) bakeshop sound good.

BOLLING: I saw mullets.

GUTFELD: Yeah --

BOLLING: It's a (inaudible) mullets.

GUTFELD: And the Greenwood Lounge and the highlight. It sounds like fun.


GUILFOYLE: Doesn't it sound like fun? I'm looking forward to it.

PERINO: No. I want to take everyone bowling, that's my goal.

GUILFOYLE: I know. You asked me to bring a casual outfit for bowling, pair
of shoes and some pant...

PERINO: Yeah, it's like some jeans.


GUILFOYLE: I got Bolling.



BOLLING: Do you fair to wait, now the --


PERINO: Yes. I want to run a couple of things. So when Donald Trump said,
how stupid are the people of Iowa, like three, two months ago, whatever. I
remember thinking, that will come back to haunt you, because it doesn't


PERINO: What the context was -- and Donald Trump has proved it over and
over again, with the tax against, or everybody else, so I thought it was a
fair game. The other thing is Jim Garrity points out that in a lot of these
polls, there's some interesting things going on. Whether -- there are
either fewer evangelicals living in Iowa or the polling samples are off.
The recent poll this morning said that caucus goers in 2012, 57 percent of
them identified as evangelicals. This time around, same poll from four
years ago, 36 percent evangelicals. Every evangelical vote counts, but I'm
just saying that there might be fewer than it were in 2012.

BOLLING: And they're looking for, I think a bigger turnout this year. I
think 120,000 last year, maybe they're looking for 150, 160. Can we do this
Bill O'Reilly as a theory on who's -- who was gonna decide the election
this year? Let's listen to that.


voters would make the call this year. Not conservative as a liberals. Right
now poll is saying independents are not bullish on Hillary Clinton or
Bernie Sanders. So Trump has a -- out of robust debate can come clarity and
strength. Hopefully, that's what will happen next November -- hopefully.


BOLLING: OK, Dana (inaudible)?

PERINO: Well, if a Bill O'Reilly, then it basically shoots holes in Ted
Cruz' strategy. Because he has been saying, along with many others in 2012,
that if only the conservatives had come out and voted. That there's some
mythical number of like 45 million conservative who's didn't vote. And
therefore, he's gonna target them. He doesn't expect to get all of them.
But if he could get more of them, then it could take him over the top. This
is big a debate, though, in within republican circles of whether you need
to try to get some independents or if you could just, should just focus on
the conservatives.

WILLIAMS: But listen --

PERINO: I have been Bill O'Reilly's camp, but --

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I am too on that point. But I think he is really talking
about whites who didn't come out, white conservatives. Somehow this is
gonna produce more. I just don't see it as realistic.


WILLIAMS: I think the big news, though, to come back to your point, Eric is
that over the last week, what I've seen, and I even saw this last night.
I'm talking to Krauthammer and George Will on the set.

GUTFELD: Must be nice.

WILLIAMS: Those guys --


WILLIAMS: Those guys --


WILLIAMS: And I think the republican establishment like, you know, Terry
Branstad, the governor of Iowa, Charles Grassley --

BOLLING: Chuck Grassley.

WILLIAMS: Charles Grassley, the senator from Iowa -- those guys now are
all, it looks to me. They might as well come out today and endorse Trump.
The same thing that --

PERINO: I disagree. I think it is unfair to say that about Governor --

WILLIAMS: Branstad?

PERINO: Branstad.


PERINO: Because he was definitely saying, "don't vote for Cruz." But he was
not saying...

BOLLING: He said that?

PERINO: That therefore not to vote for Trump. I think that Marco Rubio has
a lot of appeal amongst a lot of republicans, and so...


PERINO: I think that you will see him publicly...


WILLIAMS: I just --

GUTFELD: The worse in Branstad is, what a crony -- that is the most crony
capitalistic thing you could you ever do. And that mean --

WILLIAMS: Oh, you're a man of your word.

GUTFELD: I know. I said --

WILLIAMS: You're honest.

GUTFELD: Ethanol subsidies. Come on, ethanol --


GUTFELD: That's the whole point.


BOLLING: Final thought?

GUILFOYLE: Iowa, Iowa, Iowa, Pork Queen. Here I come.


BOLLING: Stick on that.

WILLIAMS: You got my vote.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, write-in.

BOLLING: But Juan, how could you not at least see that there is a lot more
that interest by people who haven't necessarily been political prior to
this? You're seeing it (inaudible), right?

PERINO: They're definitely new voters.

BOLLING: Yeah, new voters, (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: The question is. Do they come out? That's what the poll
difference is our between...

BOLLING: Of course, but why would they not? I mean, this is the big
question I have that people are saying, well, this Trump thing is a
phenomenon, but they won't show up.

PERINO: I think they'll show up.

BOLLING: They're as aggressive as anyone out there --

PERINO: They waited for hours to see him at rallies. I don't see why they
wouldn't show up on Fox News.

WILLIAMS: No. You know, we said...

GUILFOYLE: Correct. Good point.

WILLIAMS: At this segment, we said that we use the word voters. They're not
voters. They're caucus goers. You got to sit there, you got -- if the
weather is bad you sit there...

GUILFOYLE: Are not those the same people that have been lining up to fill

WILLIAMS: And I'm going to say something else...

GUILFOYLE: And stand in line, waiting long hours...

WILLIAMS: You know who come to Iowa caucuses?

GUILFOYLE: In bad weather?

WILLIAMS: People over 45.


GUTFELD: The Hairball.

BOLLING: They're wrapping --


BOLLING: They're wrapping --


GUILFOYLE: Hairball. It's a heavy metal group.


GUTFELD: Yeah, Hairball.


BOLLING: That's right. Ahead, an investigation into Planned Parenthood's
alleged trafficking of fetal tissue results in indictments in Texas, but
not for the abortion provider, for the people who exposed the operation
that surprise, twist. And the undercover video makers defense, next on "The


GUILFOYLE: It was a sunny expose, a series of undercover videos put out
last year revealed that Planned Parenthood was not only aborting babies,
but also trafficking their organs for profit.


we alter process and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we
can make it part of the budget, that any dissections are this and splitting
the specimens into different shipments is this. I mean, that's -- it's all
just a matter of line items.


GUILFOYLE: That launched congressional investigations, along with local
ones. And yesterday, a surprising development out of Texas. A grand jury in
Houston chose to indict two makers of those videos instead of Planned
Parenthood, accusing them of tampering with a government record. Judge Nap
is convinced politics were behind the indictment.


MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: This sounds like a political hit job?

political hit job. You used to practice law. I used to be on the bench.
We both know that a skilled prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict
anything. The favorite phrase is you can get a grand jury to indict a ham
sandwich if you want. There's no judge; there's nobody there on the other
side. We won't know what this prosecutor told the grand jury unless and
until there's an actual criminal trial.


GUILFOYLE: One of the two facing felony charges is the founder of the
Center for Medical Progress. In a statement, David Daleiden defended his
group's actions, saying it uses the same undercover techniques that
investigative journalists have used for decades. Planned Parenthood still
cannot deny the admissions from their leadership about fetal organ sales
captured on video for all the world to see.

Dana, this is a shocking, surprising development.

PERINO: Well, I think his statement a good one. It's something that I
wanted to ask you. Like, how is this different from what "60 Minutes" or
"Dateline" NBC has done for years?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, ultimately, because this was just a grand jury indictment.
I do not believe that he's going to be convicted. I don't think a felony
charge and conviction would even hold up. So hopefully, some people that
actually will listen. Look at the evidence. Understand the issues at play
here. Will not try to make a political statement and, you know, use this
person as some kind of a, you know, scapegoat.

PERINO: And two other points. I just wanted to say that, you know, it did
occur to me also that the Democrats and liberals really criticized the
grand juries in New York and Baltimore in those cop cases. And they
thought the grand juries were slanted. In this case, they love the grand
juries. Right? So again, you know, they can only accept justice if it
falls where they want it to on their checking the box column.

The last thing I'd say is that they were selling human organs. You cannot
-- every seller requires a willing buyer. So there was obviously something
going on, and the trafficking of human organs is illegal.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and that's what he's saying. You can't escape the fact
that they are doing this, it was illegal and that, subsequent to this
investigation coming out, they changed their practices, because they knew
what they were doing was wrong. And that, I think, is significant.

Greg, you said what?

GUTFELD: I wanted to add. You said what makes this different? Imagine if
wasn't a media darling like Planned Parenthood. If this had been a sting
for the NRA or a sting on the Catholic Church. The media would then be
championing -- championing the investigators as heroes and condemning this

But apparently, you can slice up a fetus but not like a driver's license.

It's interesting, too, because the other difference is this was not a
political sting. It was a moral sting. It wasn't out to, like, overturn
Roe v. Wade or creates some kind of revolution, or get somebody elected.
It was trying to shine a light on something about our civilization that
stinks. And it was a moral sting. I don't think they even had any -- they
were not trying to change anything. They were just trying to say, "Take a
look, America."

GUILFOYLE: This is happening, yes.

Eric, were you surprised by this indictment? And what do you think's going
to happen?

BOLLING: And again, Judge Napolitano thinks this won't go any further than
indictment. It probably won't go to a trial. And if they do, correct me
if I'm wrong, but they're going after some sort of falsifying a driver's
license as a way of getting this person to talk about it. And that's the
extent of it.

You point out something very important. Planned Parenthood stopped the
practice of -- let me put it this way. Selling the body parts. They say
they were just taking money to cover their cost of removing the fetal parts
and transporting. Now they will not do it -- they'll hold the parts for
another day, and they can sell them another day down the road if they
wanted to.

The whole issue is whether they were making a profit. They stopped doing
the practice. That's good. The indictments came down. That's bad. But I
think who end up going away, what they really should do is go after Planned
Parenthood. What they were doing was illegal.

GUILFOYLE: But how politically motivated? It's just really disgusting.
Again, what about babies' lives? Shouldn't they matter? It's terrible.

WILLIAMS: This is so one-sided.

GUILFOYLE: A witch hunt.

WILLIAMS: It just bothers me, because you know, eight states, after seeing
all this, decline after seeing it. 11 states cleared Planned Parenthood.

You ask, what's the difference between this and "60 Minutes" or a
journalist? I can tell you as a journalist. You know what? People don't
fake. You can't fake your identity, use fake I.D. You can't create fake
companies. You don't use actors to go in and then create fake dialogue and
set people up by asking leading questions. That's just not -- and so you
know what? You say, this is political.

Look, I tell you what. I have so much respect for people who oppose
abortion rights. I think that -- I understand that fully. But if you're
asking me, Greg, is it legal? Yes. The U.S. government, the American
people have said it's legal to use fetal tissue for research purposes. And
that's what was going on. There was never any fetal tissue sold for

BOLLING: There was. They claim it wasn't for profit.

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you. It wasn't for profit.

BOLLING: That woman on tape was just saying how they're going to separate
the body parts of the fetuses. So they can sell more parts.

GUILFOYLE: So they can make more money.

WILLIAMS: What you're trying to do -- what you're trying to do is to give
the scientific people what they're trying to get so they can deal with
issues, ranging from everything from asthma -- to Parkinson's.

GUTFELD: There's value in it. There's value in the tissue. Hooray. We
admit it. There's some value there.

GUILFOYLE: And it can also be done scientifically without chopping up
babies. So how about that? Why don't you reach for a little bit of a
higher moral, ethical ground instead of squandering, like in the dirt, in
the mud like these people.

WILLIAMS: So why did you report it...

PERINO: Those child molesters, they didn't say, "Hey, we're from
'Dateline' NBC. We're going to catch you trying to molest a child."

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're going to have to live with themselves.

Next, we're going to go live to Iowa for a visit with "Campaign Carl," is
we didn't scare him away, ahead of the big announcement coming in moments
on "Special Report" of the lineup of Thursday night's GOP debate. And
we're going to be live in Iowa soon. That's right. See us there. Check
it out. Tune in this Friday, Saturday and Monday. "The Five" goes to
caucus country. We cannot wait, and you won't want to miss it.

Back in a moment.


PERINO: There's a big announcement coming soon on Thursday night's GOP
debate. And you're only going to hear it on FOX News. The lineup for the
9 p.m. showdown will be revealed at 6 p.m. Eastern tonight on "Special

And as we wait for that, let's check in with Campaign Carl, live in
Marshalltown, Iowa, where Senator Rubio campaigned today, and Donald Trump
will be holding a rally shortly.

Campaign Carl, you're very experienced in this. I have a quick question
for you. Do you think conventional wisdom will hold or do you expect a

CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: All year it's been sort of a
contradiction of conventional wisdom. So I think, for it to continue to do
so, we would not be a surprise. The conventional wisdom is that, sooner or
later, Trump will begin to falter. That has not happened.

Although today, he did take a pretty serious hit. A number of women's pro-
life groups have today come out, come forward and said that Donald Trump is
unacceptable. The Conservative Women's Forum, Right to Life America, the
Susan B. Anthony Organization, all women-oriented pro-life organizations
have said that Donald Trump's past positions of pro-choice supporting
abortion rights, and his treatment and demeanor towards women make him

That's a big deal in Republican politics, and it comes literally on the two
days before the debate and five days before, six days before the caucuses.

So Trump will have -- Trump is going to have a news conference shortly and
will be in a rally tonight. It will be very, very odd to hear Donald Trump
attack those groups. But normally, when groups don't like him, that's what
he does.

PERINO: All right. Eric Bolling.

BOLLING: So the criteria has been announced but the names have not. So
tonight it's coming out, I guess, about 15 or 20 minutes. So 19 minutes.
It looks like they'll be the top six nationally. Then you may add another
one. I guess it would likely be Kasich for New Hampshire. So he'll come
in the top five there.

And then you may add yet another one. There could be an eighth player in
Rand Paul if he comes in within the top five in the last five Iowa polls.
Is that correct? So we could have six, seven or eight candidates?

CAMERON: That sort of lays out the likely outcomes. We'll find out which
outcome ultimately in a matter of minutes. But more candidates on the
stage means less time for Donald Trump and more criticism, simply because
he'll be center stage.

And now virtually every one of his rivals is criticizing him. Whereas in
the past debate, there have always been a few reluctant to.

PERINO: All right, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: So Carl, what about the enthusiasm level there? And what are
you seeing in terms of likely, you know, caucus supporters, in terms of
their enthusiasm for their particular candidate?

CAMERON: So the Trump organization, they originally planned to have this
at a hotel conference center. It was only going to hold about 400 people,
so they moved it. It's a bigger crowd.

This is not the kinds of thousands and thousands of people that Mr. Trump
has had when he's gone to states that aren't voting in February. But this
is a very, very sizable crowd for the Iowa caucuses. And the intensity is

Voters in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina have been peppered by
pollsters, subjected to endless attack ads on their TV sets. And frankly,
they're getting a little tired of it, and they're eager to vote.

And just about everybody you talk to in Iowa has a first choice, a second
choice and in many cases a third choice. Because that's the way caucuses
go. You can have a second bite at the apple if your candidate doesn't
perform well.

And in New Hampshire, it's the same way. In Trump audiences, there are
often political tourists. Here in the central part of Iowa, there are
folks who have come from Montana, from Illinois, and Indiana, all just to
see him and watch the caucuses. Their states don't vote until much later.

But it gives you an idea that some of the support for Donald Trump is
political tourism. Some of it is people who just like a celebrity. And
then there are those who plan to caucus and vote for him. And how that
breaks out could determine who wins what.

PERINO: We only have 30 seconds left or so. Juan Williams.

WILLIAMS: So if I was a political tourist, I'd come see Campaign Carl.
That's what I'd do.

But Carl, let me ask you about two people we haven't mentioned. Ben
Carson, Marco Rubio. Carson looks to be cratering to me. Am I wrong? And
Rubio, could he separate himself from the rest of the establishment pack
behind Trump and Cruz?

CAMERON: Yes, Rubio is certainly trying to be that third ticket out of
Iowa, recognizing that Trump and Cruz seem to be in a sort of a two-man
race. They'll come in one, two, two, one.

But Rubio will be in third, which sets him apart from the rest of the pack.
That's a big deal for him.

On the other hand, the idea that you can win the nomination by being third
is a problem that Rubio is going to have to face soon. Because he's in
second or third in New Hampshire, second or third in South Carolina.
Sooner or later, he's going to have win somewhere.

Donald Trump or Ted Cruz, it will be a late night this coming Monday here,
but one of those two is still likely to win the caucuses which is -- which
changes the dynamic for every state thereafter. You know that.

PERINO: All right. Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Any suggestions for bars?


GUTFELD: Yes, out there.

CAMEROTA: Well, there's plenty of them Des Moines. The problem with
coming out and staying in Des Moines is that's not where Republican
candidates do the bulk of their campaigning. They come out to the more
rural areas of the state, particularly the central Northwest, where the
conservatives vote. If you're looking to go to a Hillary or a Bernie
event, you'll probably do OK around Des Moines.

GUTFELD: Very good, way to take a nonsensical question and get a practical

GUILFOYLE: That was so Trip Adviser.

PERINO: Campaign Carl, we're going to be there be on Friday. So we'll see
you there.

Also, do you want to be happier and healthier? Live closer to somewhere
that serves alcohol.




WOODY HARRELSON, ACTOR: Hey, Mr. Peterson, Jack Frost nipping at your

GEORGE WENDT, ACTOR: Yes. Now I need Joe Beer nipping at my liver, huh?


WILLIAMS: Norm from "Cheers." He always went to a place where everybody
knew his name. He seemed like a happy guy, right?

Well, a new study says living near a pub does make you happy and can
improve your overall health. Those who enjoy a pint close to home, and
they have more friends. That sounds like a good excuse to drink up.
Especially if you're Greg Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Why would you come to me first?

WILLIAMS: You asked the question of Campaign Carl about where can we

GUTFELD: Yes. The upside is there's no drunk driving if you live near a
pub. You can walk or stagger home. The bad news is your front yard
becomes a restroom and a motel room for drunks.

The other thing, too, is the real tragedy of pubs is when they banned
smoking. Because the tobacco smoke camouflaged -- camouflaged the stench
of an old pub.


GUTFELD: And it does stink in there. So once everybody stops smoking, you
smell the stale beer, among other things.

PERINO: True. Good point.

WILLIAMS: The good news is they say that, if you have a local pub, you are
less likely to drink excessively.

PERINO: Well, and the other thing it said in the study is that having that
companionship, being able to go down and see a few friends like they did on
"Cheers," that that's probably the most beneficial thing. It's not just
the alcohol.

But in England, one of the things I loved about living there was that you
could take your dog to the pub, as well. Yes.


PERINO: And that was fabulous.

GUTFELD: The smoking would cover up the smell of the dog.

PERINO: The dog doesn't smell. My dog does not smell.

GUTFELD: Did you ever go to a British pub. I used to go to the pub every
day. It stunk like dog.


GUILFOYLE: It didn't stop you from going back. Day after day after night
after night. Yes.

WILLIAMS: Eric, it says, though, that friendship is really so important
for good health and long life. And it says the way to maintain a
friendship is face to face. Not on e-mail, not on the phone. And a pub,
you're face to face.

GUILFOYLE: I like that.

BOLLING: We go to this pub right over here all the time, have a beer once
in a while, right, have a cocktail. I think it's a great idea. I agree
with Greg, though, that it can benefit you that you don't have to drive in
the car and drive -- or worse, get in a cab in New York City.

WILLIAMS: What's it like -- what's it like for a beautiful woman to go
into a local pub?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Not fabulous.

What? What did you just say?

Wow! OK. It can be friendly. It can be friendly.

GUTFELD: You can't go into bars, can you?


WILLIAMS: All right. "One More Thing" up next.


GUTFELD: We're back for "One More Thing." Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, last week some people in Gainesville, Florida, complained
about neighborhood kids playing basketball too loudly in the driveway.

But the cop showed up and they said, "We're coming back and we're going to
get some help." They brought in a friend on Saturday, and that friend was
Shaquille O'Neal. Oh, my God. Shaquille O'Neal shows up and he starts
playing with the cops with the neighborhood kids. A great deal of fun.

But you know what? The video of this which I must say, all credit to
Shaquille O'Neal and the police. They did not invite the media. But this
video then got played by 14 million people across America. It went viral.
Good news for police community relations.

PERINO: I like it.

GUTFELD: Where are we?

BOLLING: He got big this way, too.

COLLING: OK. So this was just an amazing video. I was, like, I wasn't
going to do it. People like to hate on Twitter. But go for it. You hate
on me some more. Check it out, when this little girl Ava spoke. Watch
where she's going to go.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are going to see Donald Trump in person. In New


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Are you excited?


UNIDENTIFIED FE: You get to go see him in person. Not on TV.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! Are you excited?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to meet him? Tell Mr. Trump you want to
meet him.



PERINO: I hope he calls her up. They better go backstage.

BOLLING: He should. By the way, she's going to be on "FOX and Friends"
tomorrow morning. If I were him, I would grab her...

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Helicopter ride. Helicopter ride.

BOLLING: What I was going to do was set it up. This is definitely not
Dana. That no, you'd better not do that.

PERINO: I would have laughed.

GUTFELD: All right. Politics, politics. Last night they had the town
hall. It was pretty uneventful. Afterwards, Bernie Sanders left. It was
dark out. He got a little lost. We have this, these photos of him. He
ended up getting stuck on a traffic island.

And luckily, there were some police officers there that we were able to
find Mr. Sanders and get him home. Actually, that's a little sloth in
Ecuador that crossed a highway and then got terrified. And they saved the
little guy.


GUILFOYLE: They should name him Greg.


GUILFOYLE: A striking resemblance.

GUTFELD: We do look alike.


GUTFELD: I like hanging upside-down.

GUILFOYLE: That's how you hang on the tree outside my window.

GUTFELD: That is true.

PERINO: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, it's always time for cheese, isn't it? Well, some
people like cheese. And if I were a salami suspect, I'd be the first
suspect. But $70,000 worth of stolen cheese was recovered, but $90,000 of
delicious cheese still missing in Wisconsin.

The police department is all over it. Here is my delightful dish. I dare
you. I challenge you to try and steal the cheese for the "The Five"? And
what does "The Five" like?

GUTFELD: The cheddar. I love the cheddar.

GUILFOYLE: A double order of the cheddar. So I'm really appreciative of
the police recovering all of that cheese. The problem is, they cut out the

PERINO: Miss Perino?

PERINO: Well, in about less than a minute you're going to see Bret Baier
on "Special Report." And one of the things he talked about last night was
the FOX News 2016 election H.Q. app. It's a pretty cool thing. I went and
downloaded it. You can interact with him on Wednesday nights. He's going
to talk about how the week has gone and you can, you know, find out a
little bit more about your candidates. You can do a little bit of checking
in on the polls, things like that so you can never miss a moment. And in
just, like, 20 seconds, you're going to find out who made the debate stage.

GUTFELD: Now it's 18 seconds, Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Now 14 seconds, oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five."

That's it for us. "Special Report" is up in nine seconds.

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