Is Donald Trump a 'menace to American conservatism'?

The debate continues on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 22, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Ebony Williams, Dana Perino and Jesse Watters. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Well, he's been the republican frontrunner for months, his momentum nearly unstoppable. Now, there's a new campaign to try and takedown Donald Trump, it's spear-headed by the "National Review." Its new issue dedicated entirely to Trump, labeling him a threat to conservatism. Here's the editor, Rich Lowry.


RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW EDITOR: If you truly are a conservative, you believe in ideas and principles. It's not just attitudes and it's not just who you dislike. It's limited government. It's the constitution. It's liberty. Those are the things that truly make this country special. And they are basically after-thoughts to Donald Trump.


BOLLING: The so-called anti-Trump manifesto features a compilation of essays from 22 conservative thinkers, trying to block Trump from becoming the GOP nominee. Three of them were on Megyn Kelly's show last night.


DANA LOESCH, THE BLAZE TV SHOW HOST: I know Donald Trump. I think he's a nice guy. I think he's got a fantastic family. But that's not enough to me, anyway, to win over the White House. I want someone who is a great leader and a staunch conservative. And I don't have to question their authenticity.

BRENT BOZELL, FORAMERICA CHAIRMAN: To suggest that Trump has had some kind of road to Damascus -- transformation just isn't true. Up until three months ago, this was a man who said he was a proud democrat. This is a man who said he was a proud supporter of Hillary Clinton. So I think people have to say, OK, it's been a lot of fun up until now.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: We have to ask ourselves here whether we're willing to set the president with Donald Trump and just throwing away years and years, and decades, and centuries of conservative principles and values.


BOLLING: And Donald Trump, fighting back.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The National Review is a dying paper. It's got -- its circulation is way down. Not very many people read it anymore. I mean, people don't even think about the "National Review." So I guess they want to get a little publicity, but -- now that's a dying paper.


BOLLING: All right, we bring it around. Can I throw this out here very quickly, though? Part of the -- one of the knocks against the GOP recently has been the bifurcation. Now we're going to go further bifurcating -- I don't know what is it, quadfurcation (ph) of the GOP?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah. Well, look. It's an, you know, it's an opinion publication. They're certainly entitled to their opinion. They put together an impressive list of people. Nevertheless, you know, I don't want to have this happen again where, you know that Romney lost. I want a republican in the White House. I want someone that can win and defeat Hillary Clinton and put forth the ideas, principles that we have, right -- for smaller government, limited government, less taxes, fighting strong for our military, national security and defense. So everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I'm telling you, it looks to me, you know, especially with just the recent polls and things that are coming out, that we've seen recently in the last, you know, few weeks, that he's got a very strong chance of taking Iowa, South Carolina, Florida and New Hampshire.

BOLLING: Jesse, how does this play out in your world?

JESSE WATTERS, GUEST CO-HOST: I think politics is about principles, but it's also about emotion. And I think right now, this country is down on its knees, wounded, begging for real leadership. And finally, a real, strong leader comes around, someone that can run the table. And everyone is now saying oh, he doesn't check this box. He doesn't check this box. You know what box is important to check -- filling up 40,000 people stadiums on a Tuesday night. That's the box that counts on Election Day. I don't think principles matter if you can't get elected and then institute those principles. And I think a lot of people right now are putting pure conservatism over the country. Listen, this guy is Teflon. He can go on "SNL," "Meet the Press," do whatever, you going to throw that away because of something like he supports eminent domain? I heard eminent domain was a reason. Come on. Let's talk about his conservative principles on the three core issues -- Donald Trump is about immigration, national security and jobs. He is the most conservative guy out there and he is setting the agenda. So I'd hate to see people not soldier up and fall in line if he is the nominee, because this country is in pretty bad shape.

BOLLING: Well, and you make a very good point. Does this -- do they have to therefore, Dana. Do they have to therefore, this group of 22, if Donald Trump is the nominee? Do they have to push back or do they have to defend conservatism to the death -- which would mean, basically, pulling away from backing the GOP nominee.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I don't know what they'll do. I think - - you know, this symposium of the 22 people -- I think that what -- I read all of the 22 pieces. These are movement conservatives. They've spent their life and their careers focused on conservatism. And so I actually think all the things that you said Kimberly, actually, I think that they're trying to fight for those things, too.


PERINO: As an opinion magazine, this is what they've done. You know, my dad, when I was eight years old, started this tradition with me where I had to read the "Rocky Mountain News" and the "Denver Post" every day before he got home from work, and pick out two articles to discuss before dinner. And then we moved on and we graduated -- I remember, to other news organizations and papers, we watched all the Sunday shows, and "National Review" was one of the many magazines my dad got. And I remember of it -- I sort of felt like oh, this speaks to me. I understand it. So when I'm reading it I'm like, yeah, conservatism is going to last forever, right, 2016 will come and go in terms of the election.

If Donald Trump becomes the nominee, will they vote for him over Hillary Clinton? I would imagine so. Maybe not everybody, but I also think that this, for me, it exposed a rare weakness in Donald Trump's strategy. And that, if you want to win in a republican nomination, you can win the nomination, but then in order to win the general, you have to respect the big 10. And I feel like there's this part of the conservative wing of the party that has been accused of all sorts of things that insulted for several months. And as soon as they say something, they get attacked as well. I actually think that a lot of the pieces are thoughtful and it's measured. At the end of the day, will they vote for him over Hillary Clinton? They've been against Hillary Clinton for 20 years, and so I think they will.

BOLLING: Ebony --

GUILFOYLE: I wish I had said that.


GUILFOYLE: Case against Hillary Clinton.


GUILFOYLE: That's next.

BOLLING: If this doesn't work, and Donald Trump ends up being the nominee. Isn't this more fuel for the democrats to take shots at the frontrunner -- Donald Trump now?

EBONY WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't know if it's fuel for the democrat there, but I look at this cover this morning, and you know what I thought? I said another good day for Donald Trump. Any time he can further the narrative of me versus the world, you know that's going to rile up the Donald Trump base, who is broad. Because they like this notion of -- he is the underdog. Even though he's been the frontrunner for eight months, there's still something kind of underdog spirit to his candidacy, because there are so many on the far right.

GUILFOYLE: That's true.

WILLIAMS: And true natured conservatives that really feel like their party is being hijacked. So this is a narrative, this furthers that Donald Trump momentum in that way. Number two points on this, though -- Dana, you're right. True conservatives have a real problem with his candidacy. But guess what? I don't think a lot of these people care about that.

PERINO: Well that's the other thing.

WILLIAMS: Yes, the nomination.

PERINO: If there's so -- if there --


PERINO: If the magazine is so pointless, and there are so few conservatives.


PERINO: Why do they care?

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think they care. And I think that here's the other -- well his base doesn't care, true conservatives might. But I think that the GOP nomination is no longer a reward for being the most conservative. It is about, to Jesse's point, who can resonate with the American voters? Who will rile up their base --

BOLLING: So you're saying Lowry was beating.


PERINO: No, but wait.

BOLLING: The American people in the base by Trump.

PERINO: So I have -- can I?

BOLLING: By trashing -- that was really --

PERINO: Can I just say something, though?


PERINO: That most conservatives would say the reason the republicans lost in '08 and 2012 is because they didn't nominate somebody who was the most conservative and the true conservative. So you can imagine why somebody who follows this would be a little confused, as to the points that you're making.

WATTERS: I would also say to that, that we have been electing politicians for decades who have screwed up the country. And so, now all of these politicians are saying, "oh yeah, let's have another politician in there."


PERINO: No. The National Review actually blames the establishment for the rise of Donald Trump.

WATTERS: OK, but I said --

PERINO: So everybody is blaming the establishment.

WATTERS: I do think that it's nice to, maybe, have a fresh businessman who is in there.


WATTERS: Who is a capitalist; who might be able to change the game, and I think that's the insurgent campaign.

BOLLING: I got to get to this one. As you can imagine, Trump's opponents --


JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The National Review is a cherished conservative mouthpiece. It's been in existence for two generations, consistently conservative. And I think the fact that they would have all of these distinguished journalists and thought leaders of the conservative cause join together to say that Donald Trump is not a conservative -- is they're just telling the truth.

MARCO RUBIO, PRESIDENTIAL I don't think Donald is running as a movement conservative. He's running as against someone who is a populist, who is upset about the direction of this country. As am I, as are millions of Americans. But we also have to know exactly what we're going to do about it.

TED CRUZ, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He supported Barack Obama's TARP bailout for the big banks to Wall Street banks. He supported Barack Obama's Stimulus plan. His health care plan was as far as I can tell, indistinguishable from Bernie Sanders. Voters all across this country, they're tired of being burned.


BOLLING: All right. So we got to bring it around KG -- but again, Ebony points out, this may actually help him.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but listen. He's king of the Hill. Everybody is going to try and take shots and take him down. That's what you do. You rumble. Everybody wants to win. They want to be the nominee. They want to get in the White House. I like the hustle. They've got to be able to get after, but guess what? He's proven that he's able to take it and somehow with like the Trump magic wand, turn it into a positive for him. So ultimately, I think this might motivate the Trump supporters, the Trump train, to really get after even more and maybe, you know, get out there and for sure caucus. I don't know, stranger things, you know, have happened and turned around another way.

BOLLING: Anyone want to take the other side of that?

WILLIAMS: I will take the other side of that. I'll say this. I'll say that, although their effort might be to bring them down, to KG's point, it's in going to work. Look, they're making factual contradictions in Donald Trump's, you know, legacy if you will, politically. The problem is.

BOLLING: OK. Can I just --

WILLIAMS: He doesn't really resonate.

BOLLING: One of the things that Lowry mentioned was that they were his -- they were fearful that Donald Trump, as president, could be bought by K Street, by the lobbyists.


BOLLING: Now, it's one of the pillars of Donald trump's candidacy is that.

WILLIAMS: They'll find it.

BOLLING: He can't be bought. So, you know Jesse points out, eminent domain and now Donald Trump's ability be bought. I mean, do they have legs to stand on with this?

WATTERS: Absolutely not. Trump is the one guy that probably can't be bought. If you just look at his track record, he's going to get in there and he's going to have a majority in the House and the Senate, probably. So what is he going to do, tax relief? You gonna increase the national security? You're going to put a wall down on the border? If he ever strays outside of that zone, conservatives in the House or the Senate are going to knock some sense into him. So I don't really see a threat that all of a sudden he's going to go crazy and turn into this big liberal.

PERINO: I think that the republican's biggest enemy is wishful thinking. And that is, on the, the House probably stays because of the way that the districts are, and you could keep that a majority. But the Senate is very much.

GUILFOYLE: Much in play.

PERINO: In play. And very key states. And if this -- if we finally, when we -- after the voting starts, so we can start talking about general election demographics. When you look at those seven states, and the constituencies were use -- with which the republicans need to win, at least more votes than they have in the past, women, Hispanics and blacks if they can, then yeah. It is very likely that Hillary Clinton would be able to get into the White House easily, because -- just because on demographics alone. So the republicans have a huge amount of work to do. And Donald Trump is down with those three constituencies by a lot.

WATTERS: I don't think he's down with blacks, as a matter of fact, they're predicting he might perform just as well as Reagan did.

PERINO: I hope that that's true.

WATTERS: With blacks.

PERINO: But the numbers get --

WATTERS: And Hillary can't afford to lose any of that support.


WATTERS: With the black community. If she does, she's toast.

BOLLING: Can I -- so this --

GUILFOYLE: She could.

BOLLING: This Senate in play thing.


BOLLING: I hear quite a bit of lately, but that's depending on a democrat winning.

PERINO: Well, I actually think that there's something.

BOLLING: The White House.

PERINO: Interesting about Ted Cruz. So I have been critical of Ted Cruz, back in 2014 on the mid-term elections. Remember when he started the senate conservative's fund. And that was like the anti-NRSC, the anti- establishment one. If he wants to be the leader of the party, you -- one of the jobs that the presidential candidate is to help make sure that your coattails are good and strong, and that you can pull other people across. Imagine the whole of these Senate candidates who are in tough elections if Ted Cruz or Donald Trump, or Marco Rubio, or John Kasich, whoever -- are they going to have the kind of coattails that will help those Senate candidates? I think that is something that people -- I don't -- that's not is going to be what people worry about in Iowa or New Hampshire. It's just for someone like a geek like me, I think about it.

BOLLING: All right, let's do this. Many establishment republicans have warmed up to the idea of a Trump presidency. Rush Limbaugh knows why.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW HOST: They are beside themselves with hatred of Ted Cruz that goes beyond the rational. Some of them are actually thinks they would actively, publicly support and vote for Hillary Clinton over Ted Cruz. There is an establishment shift here to Trump, if it's to cut Cruz off at the pass.





GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, listen. This is really now sounding like a two-man race, isn't it? I mean every day, it's Trump and Cruz. Like, that's it. And that's what I think also the other candidates after -- out there have to be, you know, worried about. It's like, ultimately, I hope Dana, like you're saying the party would come together and rally behind whoever the candidate is, we don't know. The "National Review," they'll make each individual decision -- some are Cruz supporters, some are not. Let's see. But talk radio, conservative publications, and now also, a more involved, engaged. I think republican, you know, voters and people out there that are actually getting more excited to kind of get involved in the process. I hope -- whoever your candidate is, you join behind whoever the GOP choice is.

WILLIAMS: And it's talking about -- you're right, they're talking about a general. You're right, KG. It's about putting a republican in the White House. Donald Trump, out of those two candidates has a better chance of drawing independents and moderate voters. Ted Cruz is the most conservative that you guys have got. And so it will be really difficult for the middle go that way.

BOLLING: All right, quick thoughts?

PERINO: Well, and that's true and that -- if you talk to people at the NRCC, the congressional race committee, they think that, you know, they're planning ahead. They say if Donald Trump is the nominee.


PERINO: Could he bring enough new voters to help us increase our majority? I mean, I think in a way. Again, republicans' biggest enemy is wishful thinking. On the thing about Donald -- on Rush Limbaugh, though, is that -- I think that we kind of talked about this yesterday. Is that you could be anti-establishment for the last five months, if you were for Donald Trump. But now, if there are attacks against Cruz, then you're like, now you're the establishment for Trump or Cruz. I mean, it's become so diluted.


PERINO: Like, just vote for the right candidate.

WATTERS: The establishment is realizing Trump's polling like 45 Percent. He's up like 30 in South Carolina.


GUILFOYLE: No, but then -- yeah.

WATTERS: So he might be able to coalesce everybody. Listen, if he has conservatives and the establishment --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but now there's people calling Trump the establishment candidate.

PERINO: No, but Trump said --

GUILFOYLE: It's like crazy.

PERINO: That he likes the establishment.


WILLIAMS: Of course he does.

PERINO: I mean --

BOLLING: All right.

PERINO: Because they're -- they're just smart.

GUILFOYLE: How about just saying, I like votes and I want to win.


PERINO: And I'd like the National Review readers to vote for me, too.

BOLLING: Yeah, all right. Hopefully they vote for whoever the nominee is. Because conservatives clearly more conservative than anyone on the democrat side, I would say.

Ahead, Hillary Clinton out with a new ad trying to convince voters -- she is the most prepared to be commander-in-chief, but will voters buy it -- next.


PERINO: Just you want just to know what that was, it's country music.

WATTERS: I knew that too.

PERINO: All right. Just 10 days until Iowa and Hillary Clinton was -- has her work cut-out for her. She is trailing Bernie Sanders by eight points, according to a new poll. And Clinton rolled out a new ad in Iowa today that convince voters that she's ready for the world's toughest job. The spot is reminiscent of the 3:00 a.m. ad she put out in 2008.


NARRATOR: The world a president has to grapple with. Sometimes you can't even imagine. That's the job. And she's prepared for it like no other; a tireless secretary of state, standing up against the abuse of women and girls, negotiating a cease-fire in Gaza, leading the diplomacy that keeps us out of war. The presidency is the toughest job in the world, and she's the one leader who has what it takes to get every part of the job done.

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Hillary Clinton and I approved this message.


PERINO: As Clinton tells her foreign policy credentials, former Defense Secretary Bob Gates, points out that her poor judgment of using a private server, probably enabled Russia and Iran to hack into her e-mail.


BOB GATES, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, given the fact that the Pentagon acknowledges, that they get attacked about a hundred thousand times a day, I think the odds are pretty high.


PERINO: All right, KG.


PERINO: There's nothing I like more than watching your facial expressions during Hillary Clinton sound bites.


GUILFOYLE: It's like a full Jane Fonda workout on my face. What you see is just like her.

PERINO: What do you think of her pitch? Especially right in the aftermath of "13 Hours" --

GUILFOYLE: You know all I think about, Dana? I think about caskets of dead Americans and Benghazi. Honest to God, that's all I was thinking was line up those caskets with the American flag on it. And then over that voiceover, her lies to the families, basically saying that the families don't remember it, right? She lied to them. She -- what she knew and deliberately lied about with pushing the video. I mean, the whole thing is so horrific. That's what stands out. Because I don't think she can tout anything else, as a success during her time as secretary of state. I don't find that to be a positive, persuasive or compelling ad on her part.

PERINO: I thought the timing of it was weird, Eric, because if you -- if anybody saw "13 Hours".


PERINO: Clear. Nobody in Washington picked up a phone that night when they were calling.

BOLLING: Yeah. And again, that's, an account that Michael Bay took directly from the book, which is supposed to be a direct account from the people who were there. Hillary Clinton, in the last 24 hours, she's gone from, down eight to Bernie Sanders to up eight on Bernie Sanders, and then back down eight again. I think she may have even in the last couple of hours gone back up again. Here's the point, it's neck and neck. This is too close to call. And don't forget going into Iowa, 10 days away --

GUILFOYLE: That she's too big to fail.

BOLLING: Whatever O'Malley gets, as long as it's not 15 percent, his votes or delegates.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Will go to somebody else. I mean, she could feasibly lose Iowa. She's getting smoked in New Hampshire now.


BOLLING: I mean, again. Bill Clinton did it in '92. He lost Iowa and New Hampshire, ended up being the nominee and the president. But, you know, it's just a tall order.

PERINO: Right before we came to air, Ebony, the State Department made an announcement. By order of a judge, they were supposed to release all of the Hillary Clinton e-mails by January 29th, which would be next Friday. The State Department has notified the judge that because of the snowstorm today, they are going to be delayed by a month in getting those e-mails out, which means that pushes it past all of the major primaries through Nevada.

WILLIAMS: Yes. It looks beyond sketchy, except for the fact that we already, on both sides of the aisle, kind of expect this type of sketchiness, dodging the ball from the Hillary camp. Here's the problem with the ad. It's a good message. She's talking about how serious things are in a miracle right now -- that messenger. At best, Hillary Clinton is at least arguable, as to her effectiveness as secretary of state. And that's kind of my biggest problem with her. If you've been in such close proximity to the ability to change, whether it's as first lady, U.S. senator, secretary of state -- and yet, you have still failed at every opportunity to really make good on that. And whatever what you deem necessary, and that's why you're running again for the presidency. So that's my big issue with Hillary Clinton.


WATTERS: Yeah. The only thing she changed was her hairstyle. Did you see --


WATTERS: Hair changed like six times in that ad. I love the guy's voice too, in the ad.

WILLIAMS: I wonder if they poll-tested that.

WATTERS: Yeah. That was resonating. It was -- I wanted to drink a Budweiser after watching that. I think the ad was slick, but it was full of lies. First, because she kept America out of war, she voted for the Iraq war and toppled Gaddafi. She said she was prepared. Not enough to protect the ambassador. So if you just look at her history, the Russian reset was a joke. Iran is flush with cash now. ISIS is on the march. Our allies hate us. She lost $6 billion at the State Department. And nobody even knows --

BOLLING: Missing.

WATTERS: Where it is.

BOLLING: It went missing.

WATTERS: But I think this ad is actually targeted Bernie and she's saying, "I'm battle-tested. I'm seasoned and Bernie is in over his head if he's ever nominated."

GUILFOYLE: Well, she did help the Muslim brotherhood, don't forget that.

WATTERS: Oh, I forgot about that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


PERINO: Before we go -- KG, how does Hillary get away with saying that her e-mails were never marked classified, even though the inspector-general keeps reporting that, yeah, we found more and more --

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's a flagrant lie. I mean we, we know that they were marked. We know that she deliberately had the headers removed because she knew she wasn't supposed to be using a private server. I mean this is -- to me, a very obvious case.

PERINO: And I think it's quite sneaky because.


PERINO: You know also that her staff, which sent her summaries.


PERINO: So you take the information, you summarize it and you send it. And then that e-mail from, whoever, to Hillary Clinton would not have been marked classified, even though the information is classified.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Because it's like a copy and paste --

BOLLING: It is looted (inaudible) she didn't know, that information was classified.

PERINO: Also, she said that she has no idea how to use any technology, like wipe the server clean with a cloth. But yet, she knows how to ask her staff and instruct them to make a document non-paper.



WILLIAMS: And it shouldn't.

GUILFOYLE: To make a Snapchat.

WILLIAMS: She will know -- it doesn't matter. It's already you knew or you should have known. At best, its negligence and it's reckless.

PERINO: And what's worst.

WILLIAMS: Yes, exactly. Are you that incompetent?


WILLIAMS: I would argue the opposite.

GUILFOYLE: There's no intent to even.


GUILFOYLE: You require that you points out.

WILLIAMS: She should have to have that.


PERINO: I told you that it was going to be a fun block.

GUILFOYLE: You're right.


PERINO: Still to come. Ted Cruz and Donald Trump released dueling attack ad. And Barbara Bush is getting into the ad action, starring in a new spot to support her favorite candidate -- that's next.


GUILFOYLE: Slow down. Welcome back to "The Five." The ad wars are heating up and the GOP frontrunners, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are at each other's throats.


TRUMP: I'm Donald Trump and I approved this message.

CRUZ: I want immigration reform to pass. And that allows those who are here illegally, to come in out of the shadows.

BRET BAIER, SPECIAL REPORT WITH BRET BAIER SHOW HOST: That amendment would have allowed undocumented immigrants to remain in the U.S., permanently, and obtain legal status. So how do you square the circle?

CRUZ: Actually Bret, it wouldn't have. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eminent domain, fancy term for politicians seizing private property to enrich the fat cats who bankroll them. Like Trump.

TRUMP: I think eminent domain is wonderful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It made him rich.

CRUZ: I'm Ted Cruz, and I approve this message.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. There we go. The table's favorite.

PERINO: I think it's a good issue.


If you're neck and neck, and you want to make sure -- hoping that the diehard conservatives come out for you, the issue of eminent domain. If you're a died-in-the-wool conservative, that is a big issue. It's not a question of whether the Fifth Amendment should apply for government use, if it's used for private use and it enriches one individual, like the limo parking lot.

That is a problem, I think, for Ted Cruz. But if you're looking at just really thin margins, it could make a difference.

BOLLING: You also -- I'm sorry, you also have to use eminent domain if you want a Keystone Pipeline.

PERINO: That's true, but it's the difference. It's how you apply it.

WILLIAMS: And I think by the time you explain that, which was beautiful, Dana.

PERINO: Thank you. I could be a lawyer.

WILLIAMS: Yes, absolutely. People will -- they'll miss the point, though. I think most people, they really feel like get it done whoever you can. Make the deal happen. Put money back in our economy. We're about that life.

They're still -- they're not going to be so bothered by the nuance that you're speaking very accurately about.

WATTERS: I think eminent domain is small ball, and it's a little desperate. And I think the ad reminds everybody that Trump is a successful entrepreneur and a developer. So I think it could backfire.

PERINO: Taking away people's property so he can enrich himself?

WATTERS: If you're a developer, you're going to be pro-eminent domain, because you want to make money. If Cruz was a developer, he'd be doing the same thing.

GUILFOYLE: All right. I just love the small ball, in "Watters' World." The small ball in "Watters' World."

Jeb Bush is rolling out a secret weapon, his mother Barbara, who everyone loves. Here she is in a new ad supporting her son.


BARBARA BUSH, MOTHER OF JEB BUSH: Jeb has been a very good father. Wonderful son. A hard worker, his hardest dig, when push comes to shove people are going to realize Jeb has real solutions rather than talking about how popular they are or how great they are.

He's doing it because he sees a huge need, and it's not being filled by anybody. Of all the people running, he seems to be the one who can solve the problems. I think he'll be a great president.


GUILFOYLE: I just can't get enough of her. I think she's just lovely and charming and authentic. And she said, you know, in such a nice way, the delivery, she said, "He seems to be the one that can get the job done." Very effective.

PERINO: Well Julie Roginsky, who certainly has a chance to be here, she said something like "That doesn't seem like the most ringing endorsement."

But he thing about the Bushes is that, especially when it comes to Barbara Bush, no bragging allowed from her children. She doesn't do it, either. She is all about grace and manners and goodness. And I have a chance to see them in a couple of weeks, because I'm going to be at the Barbara Bush celebration of reading. So I'm excited to see her.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice. And she does a nice job for him. Because she's not like a hard sell there. She's thoughtful about it, which is good.

WILLIAMS: And she looks good. But I still think, speaking of desperate, Jesse, this is desperate to me, when you've got to trot out your mother to be your biggest advocate.

PERINO: You mean like trotting out your husband?

WILLIAMS: I think that's a hop (ph), I really do. But think for poor Jeb. I mean, I say "poor Jeb" a lot here on the network. You know, I think it's low-hanging fruit.

BOLLING: It begs the question. How about the one that might actually make a difference?


BOLLING: George W.

GUILFOYLE: He's coming out.

BOLLING: Well, he better hurry up.

I just read from small ball. Very quickly. It's where, if you get your lead-off man on base, you bunt him to second so that a base hit will score the runner. Versus swinging for the fences.

WATTERS: For those of you who didn't know.

You know what struck me about that ad? Jeb's arms were so skinny. Did you notice that? I mean, do some curls, man. Like...

PERINO: Are you kidding me?

BOLLING: Did you see that?

WATTERS: The guy did not look good out there.

PERINO: Are you serious?

WATTERS: He looks unhealthy. He needs to put a little muscle on.


BOLLING: Begging for camera, No. 1, to take a shot of his bicep.

PERINO: You've got, your face is like as red as a tomato and you are...


WATTERS: I'm darker than ebony today. What can I tell you?

BOLLING: But not darker than me.

PERINO: ... apply sunscreen.

WILLIAMS: I was in the Everglades. What am I going to do?

WILLIAMS: I've got a question for you. You talk about bringing out George W. Isn't that a little bit of a reminder, though, that Jeb is the establishment. I'm just curious.

BOLLING: It can't be any worse. He speeds up when they're under 5 percent. But he can't be doing any worse. Look there are a lot of people who love George W.

GUILFOYLE: Love. Love 41.


PERINO: That was the most applause at all of the Republican debate.

WATTERS: He's actually polling better than Hillary right now and Obama.

WILLIAMS: That must kill them.

GUILFOYLE: Why not? I would bring out anybody that I could that I thought would be helpful if I want to win. I mean, come on. Let's not be shy about it. It's go time.

BOLLING: Ro Diggity.

GUILFOYLE: Ro Diggity. Yes. I brought him on today.

PERINO: That relationship is about love, not politics.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. But you know, I don't think she would come out and do an ad like that, you know, if she...

PERINO: I'm talking about the brother.

GUILFOYLE: NO, I'm saying with Barbara, though. You know, she has credibility.

Directly ahead, the water crisis in Flint, Michigan. Democrats have been playing the race card. But it turns out the Obama administration may have just admitted they were partly to blame. Details, next.


WATTERS: A new development in the polluted water disaster in Flint, Michigan. For years the left has told Americans that they are the ones who will keep the water clean. They are the ones who cared about safe drinking water. Remember?


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To reliable supplies of clean water is a matter of human security. It's also a matter of national security.

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Making sure that we've got clean air, clean water, a great future for our kids.

SEN. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: They do what they believe. These Republicans, they do what they believe. And they do not believe in government that has any role in clean air, clean water.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We had no Environmental Protection Agency in 1970 in America. We had no one that was safeguarding our public drinking water.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

WATTERS: And Hillary Clinton just last weekend played the race card, saying the Republican governor didn't care.


CLINTON: We've had a city in the United States of America, where the population, which is poor in many ways, and majority African-American, has been drinking and bathing in lead-contaminated water. And the governor of that state acted as though he didn't really care.


WATTERS: Well, guess what? It was also the Obama administration who dropped the ball. President Obama's EPA.

How do we know this? The EPA administrator overseeing the water crisis in Flint has just resigned.

So it's clear, Dana, the Republicans want polluted water. We want the water to be dirty so everybody drinks and gets sick. Isn't that what everybody said?

PERINO: It makes for a great sound byte in front of a crowd at a Democratic debate. But when you actually put the details of the story out, it's -- criminal to talk about it in a political way. You have a failure at every level of government.

The city, the state and now the EPA. The federal government, basically the question is, did the EPA at that regional level, the woman who resigned, had that region of the country under her care. Did they bury the info? And did they not step in when they knew that they should have?

In addition, the governor, who has already fired somebody, in January, early January, asked the White House for president Obama to declare the area a disaster, because they needed additional funds in order to help remedy the situation.

President Obama didn't sign that for two weeks. Yesterday, or I think this week, Wednesday, President Obama went to Detroit, to the auto show and could have gone to Flint, Michigan. And I think they usually make the right decisions on those things. I think the White House really missed an opportunity there.

WATTERS: It seems like the Environmental Protection Agency, not protecting the environment. They're actually polluting the environment. I mean, they did this in Colorado. They turned a river there bright orange. I think we have that picture. Oops, that was a mistake. That was an accident.

And then all of a sudden this Democratic city, no one can drink any water. And the EPA sat on this, and everyone is getting sick. And the president won't even go there, Bolling? What's that about?

BOLLING: Well, again, I agree with Dana, this is absolutely horrible what happened to these people. But for almost two years they've been drinking polluted water. The mayor was -- can we not do politics? It doesn't matter who was Republican, who was a Democrat.

The bottom line is I think there's a smoking gun, though. If I'm not mistaken, there's an email going from either the regional EPA, to the local EPA, saying don't put this information out yet until we're absolutely certain.

In the meantime, months, a year goes by before they even alert the governor that there's a problem with the drinking water. So it was a failure on so many levels.

PERINO: And Eric, they want...

BOLLING: Across the board. Just fix it.

PERINO: And Eric, the city is still demanding that the residents there pay for that water that was poisoned.

WATTERS: Wasn't Michael Moore a resident didn't there? He could probably pay for some Poland Spring for these people. Don't you think he should pony up, Evedine (ph)?

WILLIAMS: Everybody about this story actually turns my stomach. My issue with what Hillary said is this. I'm not going to take the governor off the hook here. I think he was as much a part of this failure as anybody else. But to bait in that way to a base that is slipping through her fingers -- I'm talking about the black electorate right now. Look, that's fine, Mrs. Clinton. But tell us as a community what you have done specifically.

She sent -- applause. Now what I'm saying? My issue is not that you say you care. But what have you actually done when you've been given the opportunity, which many times she has?

WATTERS: People are now resigning or getting fired. That's a big deal in the Obama administration, K.G. Usually, they get to keep their jobs and their pensions.

GUILFOYLE: Or promotions.

WATTERS: Or get promoted, right.

GUILFOYLE: Switch over to a different agency to screw that up.

Yes, I mean, look, this is a very important issue. I don't want to even see it as Democrat, Republican, the people who are pandering and making those comments that are inflammatory. Shame on you. You know who you are, HRC.

You know, so here's the deal. Clean water, this is America.

PERINO: Basic government responsibility.

GUILFOYLE: Come on. Basic government responsibility. Can't even get the water right.

WILLIAMS: And the timeline, why did it take two years? This literally came to surface in April of 2014.

BOLLING: Because it is Flint, Michigan, not the upper income level. Where, frankly, there's more tax revenue coming in. They fix those water supplies really fast if something happens.

WATTERS: That's right. It's turning into Mexico. You can't drink the water, and the government is corrupt.

Coming up on "The Five," Dana Perino is an expert on many things, among them, NFL football and corny jokes. Her picks for this weekend's game and some Dana Perino's stand-up on this weekend's winter weather. You don't want to miss this. Stay right here.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Live from the FOX News extreme weather center. We're tracking this extremely dangerous potentially historic nor'easter. For the northeast and the mid-Atlantic, we have blizzard warnings in effect from D.C. through Baltimore. Philadelphia, Atlantic City, New York, Long Island. Thirty million people affected. Winds near hurricane force. Tomorrow morning. And snowfall totals upwards of 20 to 30 inches. We will be tracking it live from the FOX News extreme weather center.

Back to "The Five."

WILLIAMS: All right. It's crunch time this Sunday. The two big games to figure out who is going to the Super Bowl. The New England Patriots and Tom Brady will face off against Peyton Manning and the Denver broncos. At 3:05 p.m. Eastern in Denver.

And in the NFC, the Arizona Cardinals take on my home town, Carolina panthers in Charlotte at 6:40 p.m.

So Dana, the resident sports expert...

PERINO: I didn't know you were going to me.

WILLIAMS: Oh, we're going to start with you.

PERINO: You had a great point. I didn't know that the panthers had ever been to the Super Bowl, and you told me why.

WILLIAMS: They were at the Super Bowl against the New England Patriots in 2004. Came up short a field goal. But no one remembers this. You know why?

BOLLING: I was there.

WILLIAMS: Because of Janet Jackson. That was the Janet Jackson...

GUILFOYLE: The nip situation.

WILLIAMS: We won't do it here.

GUILFOYLE: We won't reenact it That's the modern world.

PERINO: You're right: I am kind of a sports expert.

WILLIAMS: Who's your pick?

PERINO: Well, I grew up in Colorado and so Denver, Denver Broncos. My sister, Angie, she was at the game. I think we might have a picture. She was at the game with her husband last week. They were so excited, and they will be there this Sunday.

I have my mascot theory when it comes to these games. I have to say that a bronco can outrun, not out-throw a Patriot and a panther can kill a cardinal.

WATTERS: But a Patriot can shoot a bronco.

PERINO: They don't have guns. It's a gun-free zone at the stadium.

WATTERS: It sounds really scientific.

PERINO: That's good.

GUILFOYLE: Rock, paper scissors also works.

WILLIAMS: I'm going with my panthers.

Legitimately. I think so. I think we're better on both sides of the ball. We got Cam VP-ing, Cam Newton at quarterback position.

They're going to kill it.

PERINO: Oh, man, she knows what she's talking about.

GUILFOYLE: She's into it. She's into it.

WILLIAMS: Look at that.


BOLLING: Dana. I told Dana I would root for the Broncos, but I kind of think...

PERINO: It's really half-hearted. You've got to be there.

BOLLING: I would love to see Brady and Cam Newton go at it. Man, what an amazing game.

WILLIAMS: New school versus old school, too.

BOLLING: Exactly. Changing of the guard.

WILLIAMS: The Manning -- Brady thing is...

PERINO: Also, it's like good -- nice quarterback versus mean quarterback.

BOLLING: Who's the mean quarterback?

WILLIAMS: She thinks Brady.

WATTERS: Come on. You know what I want to see? I want to see the Patriots win, just because I want to see Roger Goodell hand over that trophy to Tom Brady after the witch hunt.

PERINO: That's not going to happen, Jesse.

GUILFOYLE: I'm going Pats and Panthers. Yes, I just really -- by the way, Dana, I think that Tom Brady is getting nice, sorry to go against you.

PERINO: I'm really shocked. I have no support.

GUILFOYLE: I lived in Denver when Elway was quarterback. I like Manning.

PERINO: I thought we were for the underdogs.

GUILFOYLE: No, we're for the winners.

I just want to win, baby.

PERINO: Go Panthers.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" is next.


BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." I kick it off tonight. Make sure you watch "The O'Reilly Factor." I'm going to sit in and host for Bill. We're going to hear from the Trump camp on this big NRO, National Review thing.

The Cruz camp and also someone who has asked to join the 22 pundits on the Trump takedown. And he said no and why, and he's not a Trump fan. He has nothing to do with it. The reason may surprise you. Also, the very latest polling numbers that are going to get released now. Something very special -- Dana.

PERINO: All right. It's time for this.


PERINO: Dana's Corny Joke of the Day.


PERINO: Jesse, are you ready for your first corny joke of the day?


PERINO: All right. K.G., before we get started, I want to just show -- we did corny joke of the day two weeks ago. And our biz operator, Brian Zeno (ph) and his wife went to Hawaii, and look at this billboard. That's a little chalkboard. Can you see what it says there? Can you see?

GUILFOYLE: Jalapeno business.

PERINO: "The Five" making it all the way.

GUILFOYLE: Dana Perino.

PERINO: Corny joke. He didn't credit me, but that's all right.

Here's three. They are snow-related. Are you ready, Eboni? What do you call a snowman with a six-pack?

WILLIAMS: Tom Brady.


PERINO: An abdominal snowman.



PERINO: If you live in an igloo made of snow, what's the worst thing about global warming?

GUILFOYLE: No privacy.

BOLLING: Drowning.

PERINO: No privacy.

All right. Jesse, this one's for you. What do you call an old snowman?

WATTERS: Grandpa Snowman.

PERINO: Water. For Watters.

WATTERS: Got it, got it.

PERINO: Corny jokes.


GUILFOYLE: Moratorium on that. Next. Let's push it to four weeks. Next?

PERINO: Wait until Iowa. When our show is in Iowa, I'm going to have corn-y jokes.

GUILFOYLE: I knew it. I do love corn, but I have to tell you. It's so delicious.

WATTERS: On the cob.

GUILFOYLE: And so I love love. How about this? True love, romance, over the years. So listen to this story. It's a goodone.

A World War II Army veteran from Virginia is going to travel over 10,000 miles to Australia to meet face to face with his long lost love after 71 years apart. Isn't this very sweet? So it's going to be for Valentine's day.

So she had her son look him up online. She called him, said, "Hi, Tommy," which was his nickname. It was very sweet. They had -- he was forced to leave for the battle of Normandy in France in 1944, and they had dated for a few months in London. And now they're going to be reunited.

PERINO: That's a heck of a story.

GUILFOYLE: Charming and lovely. And you saw they did little Skype sessions.

How cute.

BOLLING: Thank God they did that.

PERINO: I hope -- I hope the airline upgrades him to business class or first class.

BOLLING: That would be nice. OK.

GUILFOYLE: Do it, do it.

WATTERS: A lot of people have been wondering why am I so sunburned? Well, that's because I went down to the Everglades the other day and tried to shoot some pythons. O'Reilly sent me to the Everglades to go hunt pythons. So tune in on Monday on "The Factor," 8 p.m. Eastern time and see if I can kill any snake.

BOLLING: Does he tell you to wear preppy shorts, too?

WATTERS: I was trying to blend in.

PERINO: Was he trying to get you killed?

WATTERS; Yes, I think so.

GUILFOYLE: Wait a second. Is that your idea of camouflage? Mint julep green or something.

PERINO: I would love to hear that the guides were saying about you.

BOLLING: Were you going through the closet? "I think I'll bring these shorts out."

GUILFOYLE: That look was a little soft. It's not exactly screaming guns and ammo.

WILLIAMS: My "One More Thing," so last weekend I actually had the esteemed privilege and honor of judging the Miss New York USA pageant. Here's a look. We ended up crowning a young lady. There she is, Miss Serena Bacaz (ph). And she will represent New York at the Miss USA pageant on FOX network. It was really, really, really fun.

GUILFOYLE: And what an honor to be on. Very nice.

WILLIAMS: You know that there were armed veteran who were interviewing for this position. They were cancer survivors, domestic violence, really beautiful women.

GUILFOYLE: We love having -- and pleasure having you with us.

BOLLING: Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. Have a great weekend. Everyone stay warm. It's Snowmageddon on your way. "Special Report" now.

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