Hostages for criminals: Did US get a fair deal with Iran?

The debate continues on 'The Five'


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 18, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Smart policy or a world less safe, this weekend major developments out of Iran. Four U.S. hostages were traded for seven Iranians imprisoned for violating American trade sanctions. Three of the Americans are now in Germany. One chose to remain in Iran. This was one of them, Jason Rezaian, after reuniting with his family and here is Amir Hekmati reunited with his family after four and half years.

On the same day as the trade, the United States united -- I'm sorry -- lifted banking, steel, shipping and other sanctions on Iran. The president's hailing it as a major victory.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: This is a good day because once again we're seeing what's possible with strong American diplomacy. Ensuring the security of the United States and the safety of our people demands a smart, patient and disciplined approach to the world.


PERINO: But less than 24 hours after those sanctions were lifted, the U.S. imposed new minor sanctions over Iran's ballistic missile program. Some say the move was delayed by weeks, not to endanger the swap. But this morning, Secretary of State John Kerry denied that charge.


SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY: These tracks were separate. We almost had these folks out several months ago. And then there was a snag that occurred.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS: But the timing, Mr. Secretary, looks a little suspicious, you know, we --


KERRY: Well, what can I say? We were not going to waste any time in getting them home.

DOOCY: So it's a coincidence?

KERRY: That is absolutely a coincidence.


PERINO: So I supposed that could happen. It would be just a coincidence that you would get the sanctions lifted right after the sailors were caught -- captured and then released and then -- I'm glad that the Americans are home, but the timing does seem a little suspicious.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Well, I'm thrilled that they are home. But again, here is what -- if you interpret what Secretary Kerry was saying there was we were going to do whatever it took not to get the sailors home or not to get the hostages home, the five that we got back, but to get the deal done. They were going to get that deal done no matter what. The Iranians were smart. Where If there was a negotiation to get those five people back or even the sailors on the boat from last week, they were going to hold that off until the sanctions were actually lifted and they freed up the banking. Now, the banking numbers everyone is talking about is $100 billion of their money with interest, minus what they owed, it's going to come around to be somewhere around $60 billion. But they were going to get that first before they were going to, a, release these five hostages, the people they have been holding for years, or, b, let the sailors go. So they played this smart. But again, you can never trust the Iranians. Just because they did that doesn't mean for the next 15 years we're going to trust them and I wouldn't trust them next week.

PERINO: Once we were talking about in the green room, Gutfeld, was about the fact that the Americans that were being held had done nothing wrong.


PERINO: And we're basically hostages. The Iranians that were being held here in America had actually violated laws.

GUTFELD: Well, countries like -- poor countries like Iran, western prisoners are like the greatest gift card. You can hold on to it for as long as you want and it's worth billions. So it's hard to be 100 percent ecstatic about this release because you know it's the fruits of a kidnapping. And about the timing thing -- and Kerry says that the process wasn't coordinated, that was more coordinated than Michael Jordan in his prime. The whole thing was planned out and this whole idea that somehow we're fostering this new diplomatic relationship, if anything, it's an abusive of relationship. I mean imagine, Juan, if you had had a friend that you hung out with and when you went home he goes to streets and starts yelling, "Death to Juan Williams. Death to Juan Williams." That's Iran. Iran says they are engaging in this new world but then this world -- new world relationship and then the next thing you know they are preaching our demise.

PERINO: Is it actually -- I'll let you respond to that, Juan. So even -- after they've signed the nuclear agreement, Iran not -- did not abandon their aspirations for nuclear weapon and it also said this was done by warmongers, Zionist, and the hard liners in Congress are the only ones who aren't happy.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Right. That's what the President Rouhani said. Death to me, I guess, I'm opposed, Gregory. But I would say that there are separate items here that demand attention. I don't think it was Michael Jordan coordinated. I do think what was coordinated getting back to what you're talking about, Eric, was the sanctions against the Iranians firing missiles recently. I think the administration held off on that because they were trying to make sure that those people who were being held could get out of town before the additional sanctions were put in place. They are minor sanctions against specific individuals, not the whole country of Iran, no where near the magnitude of the larger sanctions that are being lifted in order to get, and this is the big point, to get Iran away from a nuclear weapon because if you don't trust them and nobody says they trust them, you don't want them to have the bomb, and don't forget, they hate Israel. We have an interest in Israel's safety. So this is a good thing.

GUTFELD: So we're actually being held hostage?

WILLIAMS: No, we're not being held hostage. They're negotiating.

GUTFELD: So then have to negotiate to get the bomb out of the hands of the terrorist nation. They're saying if you don't do this, we're going to have the bomb.

WILLIAMS: That's possible.

BOLLING: Can I want to point something out? In this -- this deal, somewhere around 80 percent of their enriched uranium leaves the country of Iran to Russia. That's the point.

PERINO: It's so comforting.

BOLLING: To Russia -- yeah. If you want 80 percent of the available uranium to go somewhere, how about going to a disinterested party? Going somewhere else .

WILLIAMS: What do you mean? But Russia has .


BOLLING: I know, but you don't think Russia is disinterested in all this.

WILLIAMS: No, but I think they have .


BOLLING: Do you think Russia is closer -- Russia would rather benefit Iran or the United States given what's going on?


PERINO: . because of their with Syria. Kimberly, I want to get your take on something before we turn to politics because as you can imagine we are on election year. And so, there were comments by Republican candidates about it. But before we do that, I want to get to this sound bite from Bob Levinson's wife.



PERINO: He was taken in 2007. He was not included in this release and his wife commented on that today.


CHRISTINE LEVINSON, ROBERT LEVINSON'S WIFE: I actually had to turn on the TV to find out what was going on, which was really disappointing and I felt very betrayed and devastated that I hadn't even received a phone call to let me know this was happening because we had been promised that when the other people were released Bob would be with them and he was not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You felt betrayed by .

LEVINSON: By the United States government for not getting him out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president and the secretary of state.



PERINO: She was very calmly was explaining the situation. Now, Iran, Kimberly, say that they do not know where Levinson is.

GUILFOYLE: Well, this I when this news broke. This is one of the first people that I was hoping -- I was waiting for the name to come through and reading the wires, getting the information, the intelligence report, and can you imagine how she felt having to look to the television to try to get some truth and honesty to find out about the fate of her husband. It's very disturbing. You know, this is not someone that we should leave behind. There should be some definitive answers. I do not believe for one minute that Iran does not know exactly the location or whereabouts of Bob Levinson. You know, it's sad. I just that they are going to still work tirelessly to make sure to bring him home and the least a they could have done as a courtesy to this woman who has grieved and hurt so much for the loss of her husband and where he is and for information about him, at least pick up the phone and give her a call and give her a heads up and let her know this was happening, that these other individuals were being released, and maybe assure her, give her some comfort in this time to say, "We haven't forgotten about Bob and we're going to it try to bring him home."

PERINO: It seems the least she would deserve. OK. Eric, I want to get your take on this. We'll go -- take around the table. The Republicans, of course, has a comment on this. They had an opportunity to and here's some sound from them.


DONALD TRUMP, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Three people have just been kidnapped in Iraq because they see what the heck we pay $150 billion for four people -- three people just this morning, and this is going to take place all over. They should have come back as part of the deal three years ago when they started talking about the deal. Not now.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What the president is now doing not just with this but what he did with the Castro brothers and Bergdahl is he's put a price on the head of every American abroad. Our enemies now know that if you can capture an American, you can get something meaningful in exchange for it.

SEN. TED CRUZ, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This deal is a really problematic deal, and it reflects a pattern we have seen in the Obama administration over and over again of negotiating with terrorists and making deals and trades that endanger U.S. safety and security.


PERINO: All right. Eric, we'll go to you first, your thoughts on that.

BOLLING: Yeah. So, are -- you really have to look at this. So do you want to put the names of Bob Levinson and frankly all the hostages that Iran is holding in front of the deal? And if you do when the deal comes through you're going to say you have negotiated for these hostages, and therefore, doing what Rubio, Trump -- and I'm n not sure Cruz was on that, but at least two of them are saying, "Don't you buy -- but both of those I think have also suggested we do put the names to negotiate in front of the deal, but aren't you doing what you don't want to do by putting a price.

GUILFOYLE: No. You said that no negotiations -- say, "Hey, listen. You want to play ball. You want to sit at the table with me. These are my unconditional terms. They will be released and then I will sit at the table with you at this time."

BOLLING: OK. I don't disagree with you, but that's not what they were saying. These people have all said .

GUILFOYLE: I think that's what they mean.


BOLLING: . all candidates have said you need -- you need to get -- at least tie the release of your people to this deal if you're going to give them a deal. And I agree with you. I think that's a mistake. Make sure you go hardball on them first, get your people back and then sit down.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Then let's sit. Yeah.

BOLLING: But they are not saying that. That's my point about what's going on with the Republicans.

GUILFOYLE: A gesture of good will.

BOLLING: So Levinson not being in that -- in that group was because if you put him in the group then are you saying we're going to negotiate, which I think they did do -- Obama did do with Cuba. He got to return -- the sanctions being dropped with Cuba were dependent upon getting back our American that was being held in Cuba.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And they were just showing you the last proof of life photo of him because there's been a lack of information forthcoming for quite some time for his whereabouts.


PERINO: All right. What about you on the Republican response?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I -- can I just stick it to Kerry for a minute when he said this made a safer place for America? There's no proof of that because this has no -- this does not cause reduction in our most pressing threat which is the exported suicidal Jihadism as in -- every time for some reason. Then when it comes our defending our country, so many things are off the table. We'll be willing to close Gitmo and water boarding and we'll even refrain from harsh rhetoric. But when dealing with an adversary, everything is on the table, you know -- which is why -- for Iran it pays to sit back and watch because you don't have to do anything. You're playing against the world's worst poker table. President Obama, because he's beholden to his legacy, he wants a Reagan-esque moment .

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: . in foreign policy that he would trade the White House for a bad of marbles.

WILLIAMS: All right. So here is the other point of view, which is that we had had a group of sailors stranded to Iranian waters. They were out in 24 hours. Now that suggests that there are open lines of communication that previously didn't exist. And you know what?

GUTFELD: You know that Kerry didn't know anything half of that.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: It was a good -- and you know what? It was a good outcome for America. That's a good outcome to get our military people back. But the second thing .

GUILFOYLE: Why did they take them to begin with?




WILLIAMS: They sailed (ph) into sovereign waters.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? You just reward the terrorist. You're like thank you.

WILLIAMS: But they went in to sovereign waters. I'm just saying if Iranian forces -- wandered into American waters, you think they would let them go like that? No.

GUILFOYLE: They didn't have to -- they didn't have to take them to begin with. You could say, "Listen. You have strayed. OK. Obviously, this was a mistake." You don't have to capture and make a big deal.


PERINO: You don't think, Juan, that whole exercise was for propaganda for .


WILLIAMS: Well, yeah. Once they had them, of course, they get themselves (ph).

PERINO: Of course, it was.

WILLIAM: Once they had them, of course, they get themselves. But I'm saying our people were out within 24 hours. That's good news.

GUTFELD: Kerry was very disappointed by that.

WILLIAMS: The second thing I would say is I noticed at this table, Gregory .


WILLIAMS: . a slightly subdued tone this Monday afternoon. And I think that you saw it from those Republican candidates, folks, that you just -- you know what? This was a good deal and they don't want to say it. They don't want to say, "Obama, you did good this time. You got our people back. And we got a deal to keep the bad guys away."


BOLLING: He will not do that, Juan -- he will not do that because that is not the case on any one of the Republicans across the board equivocally (ph).


BOLLING: There's not one that thinks this is a good idea.


BOLLING: It's ridiculous that you would say that about any of them.

WILLIAMS: Well, Cruz said actually .


WILLIAMS: Cruz started out by saying this is good news.

PERINO: You know what? You can be glad that the people got home and still be skeptical about the deal .


GUILFOYLE: Juan is listening to the rhetoric on news. So he's like, "What? I thought it was. I can't hear what's going on." What I do know is American citizens and American soldiers have now become the biggest powerball for terrorists throughout the world. Pick one, win big.

PERINO: And we're going to leave it there. Did any of you catch the Democratic debate last night? Greg did. He live tweeted throughout and he is going to tell you -- he is going to tell you what the best part of that Sunday night showdown was when The Five returns.


GUTFELD: The best part of last night's Democratic debate? It was great when they shut up. Seriously, they are the crankiest, loudest threesome since Moe, Curly and Larry; the dumbest trio since rock, paper, scissors. And what did we get from this? An avoidance of national security in favor of attacks on drug companies. In the progressive mind the bad guys aren't ISIS but a guy selling Nexium.


BERNIE SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is a responsibility on the part of the pharmaceutical industry and the drug companies who are producing all these drugs and I'm looking at the consequence of it.

We're paying the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. Getting ripped off.


GUTFELD: Look, Bernie, drug salesmen may be greedy, but they aren't cutting people's heads off. But any question about terror ends up being about our own Islamophobia and evil corporations. Terror was about as present as Martin O'Malley's brain matter. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton took credit for stuff:


HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very proud of the Iran nuclear agreement. I was very pleased to be part of what the president put into action when he took office. I was responsible for getting those sanctions imposed, which put the pressure on Iran that brought them to the negotiating table, which resulted in this agreement.


GUTFELD: Always at the right place at the right time. She's Forrest Gump without the charm. She should take credit for the Benghazi flick, after all her lies led to all that. Here's her on drugs:


CLINTON: The policing needs to change. Police officers must be equipped with the antidote to a heroin overdose or an opioid overdose, known as Narcan. They should be able to administer, so should firefighters and others.


GUTFELD: Liberals expect so much from the police as they blame them for brutality in racism. And you know, what if a junky dies as a police officer tries to help? Then these goons would charge him with murder.

Finally, Hillary talks unity:


CLINTON: I would be working in every way that I knew to bring our country together. We do have too much division, too much mean spiritedness.


GUTFELD: But minutes later, she says this:


CLINTON: Looking for ways to protect our rights, especially from the concerted Republican assault on voting rights, on women's rights, on gay rights, on civil rights, on workers' rights --


Turning over our White House to the Republicans would be bad for everybody, especially young people.


GUTFELD: Of course. She pushes division like a pilled-up Math teacher.

So this three-legged race stumbled toward the same old finish line of lefty smears. The Dems have gone nose blind. Nose blind usually happens in toilets of old pubs -- you adapt to the funk.

GUILFOYLE: Eww, gross.

GUTFELD: Thank you. Now, the Dems got it. They can't smell the stench of their own fetid leaders as they push the same old stink all over us. As the media slams the Dems for hiding the debate on a late Sunday night, you got to ask yourself this, "Can you blame them?"

Juan, you must feel sick to your stomach. This is your Democratic Party.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, got my log (ph). I don't know where you were going, man, because I was -- I was -- I mean, this election .


GUILFOYLE: If that was its fraction .

WILLIAMS: . time.

GUILFOYLE: . that was fair amount.

WILLIAMS: But their analogy, oh, Gregory.

GUTFELD: You have never heard of nose blind?

WILLIAMS: No. I didn't .

GUTFELD: Nose blind .

PERINO (?): No.

GUTFELD: . happens to sewage facilities. It's when you're around something that stinks, you don't notice anymore much like you in the Democratic Party, you can't smell how bad it is.

WILLIAMS: Oh, really.


WILLIAMS: Oh, no .


GUILFOYLE: No. If that was a scratch and sniff, it clear the room.

WILLIAMS: It's not.


But I think it's worth the price of admission on your analogies. I love them.

GUTFELD: Oh, yeah. Did you like the debate?

WILLIAMS: No. I mean, what to me -- what was interesting was I wanted to see, you know, Clinton and Sanders go at each other, right?

BOLLING (?): Yeah.

WILLIAMS: So, you know what, on the big one -- on the Bill Clinton thing, Sanders still can't quite do it. He said .

BOLLING (?): Right.

WILLIAMS: . that was the poor (ph) but was disgraceful, what a way to treat a woman whatever, but he stops right there, and I saw them whispering to each other up in there (ph).


WILLIAMS: But on the big ticket on the policy items, so here comes Hillary Clinton who has seen Sanders catch up .


WILLIAMS: . and go after Sanders on health care and say, you want single payer and really we don't know one, how to pay for it, and two, you're going to ignore the -- the progress made by Obama. And so, she says, you know what, if Obama is my guy, and I'm going to stand by Obama and I'm going to stand by Obama,

GUTFELD: They made a deal.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's what it looked like.

GUTFELD: They made a deal.

WILLIAMS: Her way to deal with Bernie is to say, you want another term of Obama, here I am.

BOLLING: Can I follow up on that?

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: Yeah. So, Hillary Clinton, but -- by the way, I enjoyed the debate. I -- I liked it. I want -- because I was looking for the same thing. I wanted to see Hillary Clinton .

WILLIAMS (?): Right.

BOLLING: . and Bernie at it and they did with exception of Martin O'Malley everyone is chiming in and it was like, "No, Martin, please stop, I'm really -- this time I'm enjoying this right now. This is great."

GUILFOYLE (?): Poor Martin.

BOLLING: I know, poor, Martin.

GUTFELD: It's like bringing your younger brother on a date.

BOLLING: I think that a .


GUTFELD: And he's in the back seat. He's like, "He, he, he you could shut up. Keep your head down."


BOLLING: Yeah, just got this. What is happening let this play out. But Juan is right.

PERINO (?): Blanket over your head.


BOLLING: Hillary Clinton wrapped herself in an Obama Sandwich.


BOLLING: She just on - on Iran, on health care, on Dodd-Frank .

WILLIAMS (?): Yeah.

BOLLING: . I'm going to -- I'm going to follow in the footsteps of what Barack Obama started and continue that. If you want more Obama, you might as well vote for Hillary Clinton -- Clinton. The thing about Martin O'Malley, but right now, he's around 5 or 6 percent in Iowa, these are realy important, in the Iowa caucuses, when they finally go to -- to -- to caucus, if Martin O'Malley doesn't hit 15 percent, whatever he has, if it's 5, 6, or 10 percent, he doesn't hit the viability threshold of 15 percent, which means all those caucuses, all those delegates have to go to someone else .


BOLLING: . to support someone else. That -- and if you listen to Martin O'Malley, he was very much in favor of -- of the things Bernie Sanders was saying.


BOLLING: So, there's a good chance of Martin O'Malley's votes or caucuses whatever you could them, will end up in, you know, in -- in the Bernie Sanders column. That could put Sanders over Clinton.

GUTFELD: Oh, ho, ho. Dana?

PERINO: That could really happen.



GUTFELD: Is it -- is it a big problem? Is that -- the Democratic debate is so boring compared -- it's like comparing elevator music to death metal.

PERINO: To anything.

GUTFELD: No. I mena, if you look at the Republican debate, it's captivating.


GUTFELD: And -- and -- and entertaining and so when you look at this, it really is like elevator music.

PERINO: Well, that's (ph) real -- you know, the other thing at the Republican debates is that they have been focusing on the most issue to the American people which is terrorism. Today, Gallup polls just came out that said that only 43 percent of the country is confident in the government being able to protect them in case of a terrorist attack.

I also would say this. I think Hillary Clinton made a huge mistake in becoming secretary of state. I think she should have turned it down then she wouldn't have to be the owner of -- none of the stuff would have happened .


PERINO: . with the Russian where he said (ph), Benghazi, Libya, she wouldn't have the e-mail problem .


PERINO: . she would have the corruption -- appearance of corruption with the Clinton global initiative. She could have just gone out and been fresh and new and instead, she's basically having to do what Eric said, which is cloak herself in Obama and he's not popular.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I'm going to play this out for you, Kimberly. Debbie Wasserman Schultz here or wherever (ph).


GUTFELD: She denies limiting the exposure of the debate. Let's listen to this.


DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, FLORIDA CONGRESSWOMAN (D): There's no number of debates that will satisfy everyone. So, I did my best to make sure along with my staff and along with our debate partners, to come up with a schedule that we felt was going to allow for the -- to maximize the opportunities for voter -- for voters to see our candidates.

I understand that, you know, they've got a reality TV star that is attracting a lot, you know, train wreck. You know, you know, you shouldn't watch, but -- but you can't help yourself type interest. We're getting record viewership for our debates, and we've had free up (ph) to now and this is our fourth and that's because voters really care about the issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the debate.



GUTFELD: All right. Kimberly, do you buy that? Big deal -- they put it up at Sunday night. There's football, there's a repeat of my show. So you know it was devastating.

GUILFOYLE: No. It's so -- it's so buried. It's like a bad memory. It was like my junior prom but it's like long forgot. Here's the deal like she's in trouble already but guess what, so is her candidate because this was definitely concerted effort to try to bury it. But you know who is going to really suffer for this? It's going to be besides Debbie down the road, it's going to -- going run .

BOLLING: Debbie down the road?

GUILFOYLE: Debbie down the road.


BOLLING: Terrible.


GUILFOYLE: Juan, you heard of the 60s (ph).


GUILFOYLE: Juan, liked it.

WILLIAMS: I thought it was terrific.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. But it's going to be Hillary Clinton. Because she could have -- they were just talking about this use more debate. She has not been out there. I mean, you have to go like old B roll (ph) to get the footage of Hillary Clinton because she's just not out there.


GUILFOYLE: She doesn't seem to be out campaigning very much. She's hidden on the weekend. I watch the news show billions because this was boring me to death. I mena, I don't have to tell you, but this is not good .


BOLLING (?): She wants .

GUILFOYLE: . for the Democratic Party and she's behind. I mean, Bernie could beat her.

BOLLING: . when President Obama like the State of the Union wants to make a speech or something what he wants American -- the American people to see it, he does it during the week on a .


BOLLING: . Tuesday or Wednesday at 9 o'clock, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock. Not on Saturday.


PERINO: Yeah, but the -- but the networks are compelled to give him that time.



PERINO: Yes, they are.

BOLLING: They just say, no.

GUTFELD: OK, OK, OK. They're yelling at me.

PERINO: He told Obama that.

GUTFELD: Actually getting kind of scary in my right ear.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, scared (ph) .


GUILFOYLE: . scared (ph).

GUTFELD: Thirteen, the true account of what happened in Benghazi came out on Friday. Has Hillary Clinton seen it yet? Her infuriating answer to that, next.


BOLLING: "13 Hours," the new film on the attack in Benghazi, hit movie theaters last Friday. It's less than two and a half hours long, but don't expect Hillary Clinton to see it any time soon. She's apparently, quote, "too busy" to go see what she calls a, quote, "dramatized account" of the events.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Are you planning to see it at all?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm just too busy campaigning. I am still very focused on making sure we do everything we can, as I did when I was secretary of state, as I testified to over 11 hours, to make sure that nothing like that happens again.

I can't speak to a movie, but I know people have raised questions about, you know, some of the dramatization.


BOLLING: Last week she did make time, however, to go on "Ellen" and "The Tonight Show" to joke about her e-mails and yesterday to appear on four of the Sunday shows, but shockingly not one of them happened to be "FOX News Sunday" with CHRIS Wallace.

K.G., your thoughts on Ms. Clinton being too busy to see Benghazi?

GUILFOYLE: You know, and she wasn't too busy to push the video, was she? And lie to the American people and lie to those families and then try to shame them after when she knew the truth all along. I mean, why don't you be a stand-up person, Hillary Clinton, and watch this film and show some respect to the families that lost those fine Americans that died that night that, quite frankly, you could have saved?

BOLLING: Dana, do you honestly think she didn't see it?

PERINO: I really think that she didn't see it. I'm sure she didn't read the book on which it is based, which is the true account of the survivors who came back. And they worked on "13 Hours," the book that then turned into a movie that is so compelling. And it's filling up movie theaters all across the country.

The thing is she always does is when she was asked if she was going to watch the Republican debate, she said, "I don't think so." Remember, this is on Fallon. Like, "I don't have time for that." And she was very dismissive of watching things or paying attention to things that other people in America care about.

And that might -- I guess she probably thinks that helps her now. I don't think it will help her later. She's only being tested from the left. And when she tries to enters into a general election situation, I think it will be much tougher, because she is just out of touch with what people are talking about and thinking about.

BOLLING: And one of the things that bothers you is when she brings up she testified for 11 hours.

PERINO: I know. This is -- after I watched that movie, seeing what -- and feeling, through the emotion of the film, what they went through for 13 hours, like the fact that you testified for 11 hours is partly because they had to take boats. There were bathroom breaks. There were things like that. It wasn't that hard.

BOLLING: Greg, if there was a negative shot against you being perpetrated that you didn't agree with, wouldn't you at least see what they're talking about?

GUTFELD: Yes. Exactly. But maybe, you know, when she hears 13 hours, it just makes her think of Bill and that time he took too much Cialis.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: You know what bugs me about this, though? Because I haven't seen the movie because you know I hate suspenseful movies. So I'm going to talk about the criticisms in the media.

They are taking great pains to say how other movies are doing better than "13 Hours." So they're taking glee in the fact that a film about the death of four men is getting beaten by "Ride Along 2." There was an article today to point out that "Ride Along 2" was doing better.

Would they have reacted the same if the four deaths were progressive activists, you know, or part of some kind of identity politics that seemed, you know, appealing to them? But it's four patriots. Oh, forget it.

WILLIAMS: Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on. You know that conservatives are pushing this film aggressively to try to keep...

GUTFELD: A film out of Hollywood's millions.

WILLIAMS: OK, but I'm just saying that's what's -- that's what's going on, which is, by the way, ironic, right, given that usually conservatives say, "Oh, Hollywood, forget them, because they're all in the liberal tank."

GUTFELD: And now Hollywood is mad.

Nobody is mad. In fact, Michael Bay makes good movies, and I, unlike somebody else, went to see the movie. And you know what? It's a good movie. You know what? If you like shoot 'em up, you know, a 16-year-old boy and you want to see somebody get bombed and all this, this was -- and also, understand...

GUILFOYLE: Whoa, what is wrong with you?

GUTFELD: Even I know that's not it.

BOLLING: That's your takeaway? The 16-year-old inside, he wants to see things blow up.

GUILFOYLE: To see Americans killed?

PERINO: Which is why the left shouldn't complain about it.

Most -- most people are leaving the movie and describing themselves as feeling mad. Mad about the incompetence of the government, that we didn't do anything, and mad because our military couldn't...

WILLIAMS: It's not true. That's not true. In fact, the CIA station chief came out this week, the CIA put out a statement saying, "This is not a documentary. That's distortion." The military has said, "We didn't have the assets."

BOLLING: Except for the guys that were actually there who were also...

WILLIAMS: The big thing for me is when they have the CIA station chief say stand down. Well, guess what? Most of the contractors, all of the investigators say nothing like that ever happened.

GUILFOYLE: That is just not true. You're just making things up.

GUTFELD: If this was syndrome, Silkwood, any movie about Iraq, it would be an entirely different story in the media.

BOLLING: We've got to go.

WILLIAMS: People like me went to see "American Sniper."

BOLLING: Juanito, we've got to go.

WILLIAMS: That was a big hit. This is not a big hit.

GUTFELD: The 16-year-old in you.

BOLLING: They're wrapping us big time right now.

Still ahead, things are getting nasty, literally, between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz as the all-important first vote in the nation nears.

Plus the Republican candidate who says he's the only one who can unite the party. Find out who and whether we agree, next.


GUILFOYLE: Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are escalating their war of words with a first vote in Iowa now just two weeks away.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is he's a nasty u guy. He was so nice to me. I mean, I knew it. I knew what I was watching. I kept saying let's go, kid. But he's a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody in Congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere. Once they get to know him, he's a very -- he's got an edge that's not good. You can't make deals with people like that, and it's not a good thing. It's not a good thing for the country. Very nasty guy.


GUILFOYLE: In response to that, Cruz tweeted out another video, this time of Janet Jackson singing her '80s hit, "Nasty."

He also addressed Trump's latest attack with reporters earlier.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald seems to be a little riled. For whatever reason, he is very, very dismayed. And my guess is conservatives continue to unite behind our campaign as his poll numbers continue to go down. He's a little testy.

Ronald Reagan did not spend the first 60 years of his life supporting Democratic politicians, advocating for big government politics. We need a leader who is prepared to do whatever is needed to keep this country safe. And that typically doesn't include spending your time on Twitter.


GUILFOYLE: There's that and then this. Marco Rubio thinks he's the only one who can unite Republicans.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been saying now for a while I believe I'm the only one in the primary field that can unite the Republican Party, which is critical, but also attract new voter who haven't voted for us in the past.

But I believe I am best positioned to take our principles of conservatism and convince people that haven't voted for us on a quarter century, that we're a better choice than the other party.

And I know this. Hillary Clinton does not want to run against me. Their attacks are constant from their campaign. I cannot wait to run against her. If I'm our nominee, we will defeat her, and we're going to turn this country around.


GUILFOYLE: Always with a good quick response.

All right. Bolling, how do you see it? We've got three options there.

BOLLING: Yes. I think Ted Cruz is rethinking that attack on the debate stage. Boy, Donald Trump said I was waiting for him to attack, because I was going to counterpunch, and he's not letting up. And he -- it seems to be effective. It seems like -- and I don't think we have had a poll come out in the last few days.

However, it just feels like whatever momentum Ted Cruz was having going into that last debate was stopped in its tracks. Now it feels like the momentum has shifted back towards Trump. And again, this is just pure gut feel. Who knows? It feels like it's going to be Donald Trump and Marco Rubio on the right. And I think Hillary Clinton will have her hands full with either one of those two.

GUILFOYLE: Greg, you were shaking your head. Looks like nodding in agreement.

GUTFELD: I was. I was. It wasn't.

GUILFOYLE: OK, then I'm going to go to Dana.

GUTFELD: This had to happen, and it's really good. For the time being since September or what, this was a marriage of convenience. But for the sake of good press, not upsetting people. It was like Will and Jada and Tom and Katie Holmes and Justin and Selena.

And I love it, because what you're seeing now is a really true, honest discussion between the ideological purity of Cruz and a different kind of Republican, which is -- you can call him a Rockefeller Republican, but maybe it's not. We're not sure what kind of Republican he is.

But I think it's a great argument to have right now. And I do think it does help Rubio, because...

GUILFOYLE: You're calling Trump a Rockefeller Republican?

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes, because he's not an ideological pure one like Cruz.


GUTFELD: Can I bring up one more point?


GUTFELD: I love this story when you do it today, the British Parliament debate, debating the 600,000 signature petitions, calling for Trump to be banned from England. They debated for three hours. And the best part about it is Trump doesn't care. An entire country is debating him. He doesn't care. I think he can live without the crumpets.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. OK. Go ahead.

BOLLING: What was the outcome of that, by the way?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: I don't think it passed.

GUTFELD: They just made fun of him.

PERINO: And then -- and then it didn't happen. I believe.

The primaries always get ugly. We're two weeks before the first vote in Iowa. So this happens, and for somebody who's a little conflict diverse, I don't typically like it. It's a little entertaining.

I think that if Trump wants to make that stick, he should come up with some specifics. And there are some from people who would be able to say that they don't like Ted Cruz in the Senate. Ted Cruz has used that as to say, like, yes, people in Washington, D.C., don't like me and so that's good.

When Rubio says he's the candidate to unite the Republican party, they must have internal research that tells them that's a good message. Because it comes down to a two- or three-man race in the last couple months here, that that would be a good position for him.

GUILFOYLE: And the best thing is he's asked about it. He's like, yes, he's climbing the polls.

PERINO: One last thing, which is we haven't talked about him. But I always -- I believe there will be a surprise of some sort. And I'm not saying this is beginning to be it, but it could be. Governor Kasich just got three more endorsements from papers in New Hampshire. So it's not as if you can count anybody out at least in New Hampshire.

GUILFOYLE: Rolling papers.

GUILFOYLE: No, you go out and play. You've got Christie. You've got Kasich, Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Bush. Let's go.

WILLIAMS: What strikes me is, one, this thing with Glenn Beck, where Glenn Beck said he thought Trump voted for Obama and he said, no, that was a fake tweet. Can't do it.

So I mean, Trump seems to be winning on lots of fronts this past week. And this argument about New York values just hasn't worked across the country. On the contrary, though, when Cruz says he's the outsider, here comes Trump and says, "No, you're not -- you took loans from Gold Sachs, from Citibank, and he went to Princeton and the Supreme Court."

GUILFOYLE: His wife was an M.D.

WILLIAMS: His wife was an M.D.

So the outsider thing, I think this is a real punch against Cruz. I'm just surprised how it's gone on. I thought Cruz was on a role for a while. Now I think Trump has recovered.

PERINO: "The New York Times" did that piece about Heidi Cruz today. It was pretty unfair, I thought, that she was, by all accounts, a lovely person. That really focused on something I think is unfortunate.

GUILFOYLE: We had a lot in there. Thank you for your patience. And now we go.

Ahead, the actor who gave the murderous fugitive drug lord full rights to edit his article is now on a tear about journalism in America. Stay tuned for Sean Penn's latest rant. That's next.


WILLIAMS: ... fugitive drug lord El Chapo full editorial rights to approve his story before it was published this month. But he's criticizing journalism in America in a new interview with "60 Minutes."


SEAN PENN, ACTOR: I'm really sad about the state of journalism in our country. It has been an incredible hypocrisy and an incredible lesson in just how much they don't know and how disserved we are. Journalists who want to say that I'm not a journalist. Well, I want to see the license that says that they're a journalist.


WILLIAMS: Penn has been criticized for sympathizing with the killer. But he said he sees him as a human being and says we shouldn't over-demonize any human being.

So Dana, he says, in fact, that there's a green-eyed monster called all these journalists in America who, in fact, resent the fact that he got an interview, the biggest interview in the world, with El Chapo.

PERINO: Oh, OK. I thought that Charlie Rose's face was priceless. It was almost like watching Paul Ryan during the State of the Union. Because I think Charlie Rose wasn't buying it in either. I mean, Sean Penn, it would be one thing to say that his heart is in the right place, even if his brain is not. But I don't even think that's true.

WILLIAMS: Kimberly, is it true, would you agree, when Sean Penn says there's a moral equivalence between El Chapo and everybody in America who's buying drugs.

GUILFOYLE: Well, listen, I do know him personally. I've known him for a very long time, Sean, not El Chapo. And he's always been quite vocal about the war on drugs and the way that this country conducts it. That is true. So personally, it's a very nice guy. I think he's like -- his head was in the right place. He didn't achieve the end that he wanted to. That's your opinion.

But nevertheless, I strongly disagree, being a former prosecutor, to say that we shouldn't, you know, judge this guy. I mean, just because the guy has, what, 5,000 murders, like Bundy and Manson...

WILLIAMS: Those guys are killing journalists. They're killing everybody. So Eric, he says, his regret is nobody is talking about drugs in America. Everybody is talking about El Chapo. Is that nonsense?

BOLLING: It's ridiculous. More importantly is that Sean admits to Charlie Rose that he gave El Chapo final say whether or not this piece was going to air or not. Whether it would hit "Rolling Stone" or not. That's ridiculous. Think about. How lame is "Rolling Stone" to say, "We're going to send you out. We're going to do this whole thing. You're going to get the story and then, if El Chapo is the subject doesn't like it he can have it pulled. That's not journalism.

WILLIAMS: Greg, he says, you know what? People like us, who got -- who gave you a license to do journalism? Who needs a license?

GUTFELD: I tell you what. He is not a journalist. And I'll tell you why. Because he wanted to jail journalists who were critical of Chavez. That means you will never get the license to be a journalist, Sean Penn. And your head is in the wrong place.

I could show you where it is. But you need a mirror, and you have to stand over it.

GUILFOYLE: You might enjoy that.

WILLIAMS: We are consistent on this one.

Sean Penn, you're wrong buddy.

"One More Thing," up next.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Juan.

WILLIAMS: So today is Martin Luther King Jr. birthday holiday. And he always said it should be a day on, not a day off, in terms of service to other people.

Obviously, we say that about him. He didn't say it. But anyway, President Obama and Michelle Obama went to an elementary school in Washington, D.C., and packed books for kids who are in need of books.

In Boston, there were people who went out with veterans to celebrate the veterans' service and in Jackson, Mississippi, they were cleaning up roads in Tulsa. They were cleaning up schools. Happy birthday, Dr. King.

PERINO: That's great. Thank you so much -- Eric.

BOLLING: Great man. Great Republican, too, if I'm not mistaken.

All right. So rarely am I jealous about anything on TV. I am super -- Mark Halperin and John Heilemann put together a show. It's a reality-based TV show called "The Circus." It's on Showtime, and what they're doing, they're going behind the scenes in the campaigns, the presidential campaigns.

Last night they highlighted Trump, Sanders and Cruz. This is fantastic stuff.

GUILFOYLE: You love it.

BOLLING: I absolutely adore this. And they're going to do it every single week right up until the election until we find out who the next president of the United States is. Congratulations, guys. Good job on that one.

GUILFOYLE: That was a nice endorsement. I'm glad you're enjoying it so much you used the word "adore."

All right. I adored this.

So we have 9-year-old who was the star of the Oscar-nominated film "The Room" -- is it not my turn? -- he stole the show Sunday night at the Critics' Choice Award in Los Angeles. His name is Jacob Tremblay. Take a look at this.


JACOB TREMBLAY, ACTOR: This is super cool. This is the best day of my life. I first want to say thank you to all the critics who voted for me.


BOLLING: Is that Sean Penn?

GUILFOYLE: No, but he's the star of the film. He and his mom, they're held captive for five years.

OK. So my sister and her husband, Angie and Ben Machock, they got to go to the Broncos game last night. The Broncos won 23-16. So that was good. I think we have a picture of Angie and Ben at the game. Really important. But more important also, give me a chance to show you a picture of Jasper in his Broncos outfit. So we'll be watching next Sunday at 3 p.m. With the Patriots.

GUILFOYLE: That was so cute.

PERINO: So cute.


GUTFELD: I hate these people.


GUTFELD: Chipotle made a big splash when they launched anti-GMO campaign. It was so cool and caring. Then they made a bigger splash when they gave hundreds of the customers food poisoning.

And it was a splash, literally. Now they're giving away food for free. Why would you want to have food that made you sick to your stomach? The moral of the story is GMO foods aren't as dangerous as poor hygiene practices. Learn from it, Chipotle.

PERINO: And that's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

GUILFOYLE: Aww. You used to like the burrito bowl.

Content and Programming Copyright 2016 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2016 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.