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The Five

Mayor: Attack on Philadelphia officer not connected to Islam

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 8, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

A Philadelphia police officer shot in a brazen assassination attempt as you see in this photo, the officer was just sitting in his car when he was hit three times last night. Police say the ambush now appears to be ISIS- inspired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROSS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER: The suspect in question, is a 30-year-old male from Yaadein, he has a Philadelphia address as well I believe. He's committed -- has confessed to committing this cowardly act in the name of Islam.

According to him, he believed that the police defend laws that are contrary to the teachings of the Koran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: The suspect's name is Edward Archer. Police say he came out of nowhere and started firing at Officer Jesse Hartnett using a gun stolen from police in 2013. Officer Hartnett is in critical but stable condition.

The suspect was injured in a barrage of gunfire and taken into custody, and while police say this attack was committed in the name of Islam, Philadelphia's mayor thinks differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM KENNEY, PHILADELPHIA MAYOR: In no way Shia performs is anyone in this room believe that Islam or the teaching of Islam has anything to do with what you've seen on that screen. That is abhorrent, it's just terrible and it does not represent the religion in any way, shape or form of any of its teachings.

And this is a criminal with a stolen gun who tried to kill one of our officers, it has nothing to do with being a Muslim or following the Islamic faith.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I want to Kimberly first because let's say you are task with prosecuting this case...

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes.

PERINO: ... and the mayor has just said what he said. The police has said what they said. As the prosecutor then, what do you do based on the evidence?

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying to work with the facts and evidence as presented as the investigation runs its course. So, that you have an obligation to provide that ultimately to a jury. So, why would he be then setting the stage by saying things like that going contrary? They are not on the same page. You have people out there that could potentially be in the jury pool.

And he seems very, almost like personal about it. Ardent in his defense to say these are not from Muslims; this is not anything to do with the teachings of Islamic. He's almost turning the hat and becoming like a spokesperson for the religion.

So, I'm just wondering why he's doing that. What's the basis behind it, that's the genesis of it.

PERINO: Especially because, Eric, the police are saying that the suspect actually said that.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes. Ross, the commissioner says the terrorist, quote, "confessed to committing the cowardly act in the name of Islam." He goes on to say "why." And this mayor, brand new mayor, by the way, Jim Jenney says it's a criminal act. With a stolen gun, trying to kill one of our officers, nothing to do with being a Muslim or following the Islamic faith.

The except the officer is right there. The only thing I can think of as Greg calls it the Islamophobia a phobia. And this mayor is so new and so afraid of having something on his hands this early in his tenure that he's going to go the other way, the other direction and completely call it something different.

If you kill in the name of Islam, you're an Islamic terrorist. I don't -- it doesn't matter if ISIS recognizes you or not. It is what it is. And he should be prosecuted for...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: The appropriate charging crime where the evidence takes you.

BOLLING: Yes. Where this crime it could be a terrorism.

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: It could be any crime.

GUILFOYLE: Where the evidence takes you.

BOLLING: How could it not be if it's not...

GUILFOYLE: I think the mayor is worried about a flat line, though.

RIVERA: He has eight priors, two convictions; I doubt he's invoked the name of Islam in any of his previous criminal activity.

BOLLING: So what?

RIVERA: My point is he may indeed be a self-starting convert or his mom says he's now a devout Muslim. he could have gone to a personal evolution. I don't agree with the mayor that his Islamic background or his invocation of Islam and ISIS is irrelevant.

And I think, moreover, I think this is the peril facing America today. Home-grown citizens, who, for whatever perverse reason, adopt and incorporate Islam into their personal motivation for committing these hideous crimes.

PERINO: That's also, Bolling brings up your phrase, Islamophobia phobia. Do you think this is the right diagnosis?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I'm deeply offended by all of you, the guy was dressed in Muslim garb, he pledged his allegiance to the ISIS state, clearly this is the product of global warning.

We've known that. Bernie Sanders has said that, that's the weather changes.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Will this is going to breed more terrorism. But it does breed the predictable reaction. What Eric is talking about, though, this Islamophobia phobia. First, you'll have -- you're going to have a lot of people saying lone wolf. This has nothing to do with the toxic doctrine. It's an unstable person, might be right.

Then, you have to watch your Islamophobia, America. So, what happens is the scrutiny is shifted to our behavior and not to the behavior of again, practitioners of a radical doctrine. This to me, is kind of inevitable. Like what Geraldo said, we've hardened all the large targets.

You know, it's hard to blow up a building; it's hard to fly a plane. So, the only soft targets left are you and me. the only soft targets left are people, and where does that load to? Our B, block on guns. That's the only inevitability for American citizens, is to lock and load.

RIVERA: Well, I don't think that there's any of you who had an officer, they are trained officer who couldn't prevent...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That's my point.

RIVERA: ... his near assassination.

GUTFELD: He almost -- he was armed, we're not armed, he was able to stop it.

RIVERA: I think the -- and we will debate that in the coming segment. However, I want to go back to my main point. Here you have someone who is obviously dysfunctional. Who has gone through all of this ups and downs in his life. Eight priors as I said before.

Now he has suddenly becoming political. Now he is suddenly becoming religious.

PERINO: And rationale.

RIVERA: Now he has a rationale for all of these vile and hideous acts. Now I think this is the future of our country. How do you stop that person? If his mom doesn't put the dime on him, then he goes out and he does something with the stolen gun. Nearly assassinating a cop.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD; I don't know, I don't think he will prevent that...

RIVERA: And he's there with a cop, by the way. This was a totally -- it wasn't a random cop just driving by. He stops the cop, the cop stops, bam, bam, bam.

PERINO: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, that's an ambush assassination.

RIVERA: I mean, that is, and first of all, cops now have to ride around, two cops per car. I called on every police department in this country. Two cops per car. Forget this one cop per car.

PERINO: You're right.

BOLLING: He said he believes that the police defend laws that are contrary to the teaching of the Koran. And that is one of the biggest fears that we have. Is that the, -- what are -- the refugees or the self-radicalizing here in America. That they're going to push for anyone who doesn't believe in Sharia law that they are eliminated or that they are going to kill in the name of that faith of Sharia law in the name of the Koran. It's scary.

PERINO: Can I use that as a transition point? Because there was another news today in Texas. In Texas and California, Kimberly, two Middle East refugees, they were born in Iraq, they were living as refugees here in the United States. Both arrested, seemingly unrelated.

But for trying to provide material support to ISIS. One of them. The other one making a false statement involving international terrorism. This goes back to this resource issue that we talked about this week. That the FBI now is going to be hiring 230 more full-time employees to do background checks on domestic gun purchases.

And meanwhile, there are 50 open -- 50 states with open investigations by multiple investigations per state about ISIS or ISIS-related activities.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Gross misappropriation of much needed resources. They should be diverting them in the areas that we need. Just to by the fact of the matter of these arrests happening, it's out there, it's happening, it's real. Quit being a terror denier.

This you're making the rest of us less safe. We need these resources to be able to stop these people to save lives. That's the problem, they want to focus on like, appeasing the masses. They are really, you know, working with their ideology. Their viewpoint, their platform and chase against the Second Amendment.

There are restrictions in place and the background checks that do work. That's the problem. So, if you try and like connect the dots and say, well, all of these things would have been prevented if there were better background check -- untrue. You know? Even Virginia tech.

All of these cases that we've seen or Newtown, I mean, terror and evil, they'll get a weapon, whatever they need. Whether it's like a crockpot, Geraldo, or something like the Boston bombers, you know, the Tsarnaev brothers or somebody at Virginia tech or somebody in Newtown.

RIVERA: I totally get it, I think that the gun debate is a separate debate and we can have it. But I think that you have to be pragmatic, not only that you now need to return to the days of two cops per cruiser. No questions asked.

You don't have a single cop going out on his own any more. Then you do what the NYPD has done. Why have we been so successful? We have 850 Muslim who are cops. That's what I want.

I want every police department, have your own Muslims, we have our -- how do know how to catch a Muslim? With a Muslim. You know, I want -- I want with -- I want our -- I want our Muslims to be smarter than their Muslims. If you know what I mean. Let them do whatever the crazy stuff will do, we'll do our intelligence, we'll do our, you know, officer -- instead of Officer Krupke on the corner that you know growing up, the Officer Mohamed. I know him, he knows me. He knows what's going on in that mosque, that's the way you defeat it.

PERINO: But on so much pressure, Greg, on our law enforcement to try to prevent terror attacks from happening San Bernardino that happened just about five weeks ago. We hardly even talk about it anymore.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: We weren't able to prevent that one. And I just feel like there's a huge amount of pressure on law enforcement and they might not have the resources they need.

GUTFELD: You were talking yesterday about how this what -- this other guy came to Paris and murdered -- and martyred himself. And this guy seemed that he might want to martyred himself. I finally came up with a name for the martyr center that attacks them. Call it K-martyr.

And you can show, and you can show but we will shoot you.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: The question is, it goes back to the radicalization. What do all of these people have in common? They are losers and radicalization is like a virus that infects the loser, they have a compromised immune system which is bitterness and envy. And maybe they are mentally and well.

So, I keep thinking like maybe the solution is the same solution we talk about, about mass shooters. Is that we don't cover it any more. You don't cover it as much as we normally do. Because each act incites another.

RIVERA: I agree. But you can't...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I know, you can't do new.

RIVERA: If it bleeds, it leads.

GUTFELD: You cannot...

PERINO: Last word to Eric?

BOLLING: I just hope that now he has himself said that he did kill in the name of Islam that we can go back and investigate where he studied, where he prayed.

PERINO: Or where he was in jail.

BOLLING: Or where he was in jail.

RIVERA: Good point.

BOLLING: And go ahead and use that, and not be accused of being Islamophobic for doing so.

PERINO: All right. Greta Van Susteren will be in Phili tonight with the latest on these attacks. So, make sure to catch On the Record at 7 p.m.

Coming up here, then widow of American sniper hero, Chris Kyle, confronted President Obama, his widow confronted President Obama on his gun control agent and you're going to hear from her next.

And, it's Facebook Friday. Post your questions for us now on facebook.com/thefivefnc. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: President Obama has been in a big emotional push to beef up gun laws in America. Last night, he sat down for a CNN Town Hall, both sides of the gun debate were represented it -- were represented, I'm sorry.

Here's one of the most compelling moments of the night, the widow of American sniper hero, Chris Kyle, Taya leans on POTUS to explain why he thinks he has the right to do what he's going to do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYA KYLE, WIDOW OF AMERICAN SNIPER CHRIS KYLE: I think part of it we have to recognize that we cannot outlaw murder. Because people who are murdering, right, are, they're breaking the law. But they also don't have a moral code that we have.

And so, they could do the same amount of damage with a pipe bomb. When you talk about the NRA and after a mass shooting that gun sales go up. I would argue it's not necessarily that I think somebody going to come take my gun from me.

But I want the hope, and the hope that I have the right to protect myself and I understand that background checks aren't going to stop me from getting a gun. But I also know that they wouldn't have stopped any of the people here in this room from killing. And so, it seems like almost a false sense of hope.

BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: The most important point I want to make is that you will be able to purchase a firearm. Some criminals with get their hands on firearms even if there is a background check.

Somebody may lie on a form. Somebody will intend to commit a crime, but they don't have a record that shows up on the background check system. But in the same way that we don't eliminate all traffic accidents, but over the course of 20 years, traffic accidents get lower, there's still tragedies. That's the same thing that we can do with gun ownership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: By the way, the White House announced this afternoon that they plan to leave a chair empty in the First Lady's box at Tuesday's State-of- the-Union address for dramatic effect for gun violence victims who are dead and therefore, cannot be there. KG?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean look, the president really has his talking points ready to go. And when you're confronted with someone who is a compelling public person, like, you know, Chris Kyle's widow, to come forward and say, Mr. President, show me, tell me how it is the laws that you're trying to put into effect here by Executive Order, are going to save lives. Lives specifically that have been lost because that's the argument.

That's why he's compelled to action, to go around the legislative process. To use the executive pen, to be able to do this, to change the law in this country. Where is the evidence to support that action? Constitutionally or legislatively?

BOLLING: I will tell you it was in the 75-minute or 90-minute Town Hall. There were both sides represented.

GUTFELD: I thought it was...

BOLLING: ... a good amount of information that came out.

GUTFELD: Look, I got to give -- I got to give both sides credit. I think it's valuable to face your critics.

GUILFOYLE: True.

GUTFELD: And it's important to see the weaknesses of an argument. And what you did, what you saw with President Obama was he allowed his weaknesses to be shown. There are parts of his argument that fell apart.

Especially, I think you're going to bring up, the Kimberly Corban, the rape victim, which he faltered with. The irony of course is that in this -- in this place, the studio surrounded by guns, because you have the president there. There's more firepower there than in a trident submarine. Why should he have -- why should his life be more valuable than perhaps a rape victim?

BOLLING: Your thoughts on how the president, how did he do?

RIVERA: Well, a great question, a fair question. First, I think Taya Kyle is one of the most impressive non-pros I've seen in a public forum. I would suggest that she be an excellent candidate for elective office. I think she would be magnificent. She is deeply affecting and so sincere and knowledgeable and eloquent.

I think that the president and Greg's right. I congratulate CNN for this forum. I thought it was very intimate. It was -- it was very genuine in my view, you did hear both sides of the argument. The two women, the rape victim we'll shortly be hearing from and Taya, both, you know, powerful in their presentation.

The president, though, I think made an excellent point, as you know, you and I have gone back and forth on this. I think that his tears the other day were sincere. I think that his suggestions on background checks and so forth, are so minimal. I don't know what the big fuss is about. He doesn't want to take people's guns away.

GUTFELD: But, you know, the example about the car thing you could say about guns.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: I do say that...

GUTFELD: You know, but homicides have declined dramatically over 20 years, too, as well.

BOLLING: And by the way, so have drunk driving deaths...

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: ... because of regulations.

RIVERA: Did come in second place last night.

BOLLING: They are, they are eternally...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: All of the members of The Five.

BOLLING: ... they are doomed to second place.

RIVERA: They are doomed.

BOLLING: That's a different issue.

RIVERA: Especially that hour.

BOLLING: Your thoughts on the president, how did he do?

PERINO: Well, I thought it was smart of him to accept the invitation from the CNN to do it. The one thing is that I was reading today, is that CNN approached the White House about doing this after San Bernardino.

The problem I have with that is San Bernardino was a terror attack.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: It was not a random act of violence. It wasn't like the mass shootings that...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Do one of these on terror.

PERINO: Yes. But I am really troubled by the media, papering over...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: They are complicit, yes.

PERINO: ... the San Bernardino terrorist attack. We don't know much about the victims. We haven't heard anything about the investigation. We don't know where the FBI or what the Justice Department is doing.

There is like -- it's like it just went cold.

BOLLING: You're right, Dana.

PERINO: And I was talking -- but that's what bothers me about this. I'm glad the White House accepted it. But they did it partly I think to cover themselves because they didn't want to call it a terrorist attack in the first place.

GUTFELD: It was the -- it was the incorrect -- it was the right thing but the wrong response.

BOLLING: Reason -- yes. Wrong basis. Stay right there because this is what you're talking about a minute ago.

Another emotional moment from the Town Hall, Kimberly Corban is a rape survivor who vows never to be a victim again because she carries a firearm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY CORBAN, RAPE VICTIM: I have been unspeakably victimized once already and I refuse to let that happen again to myself or my kids. So, why can't your administration see that these restrictions that you're putting to make it harder for me to own a gun or harder for me to take that where I need to be, is actually just making my kids and I less safe.

OBAMA: There's no doubt that there are times where somebody who has a weapon has been able to protect themselves and scare off an intruder or an assailant. But what is more often the case is that they may not have been able to protect themselves, but they end up being the victim of the weapon that they purchased themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Exactly.

RIVERA: I think he's right.

GUTFELD: Yes, but wait.

GUILFOYLE: Where's the evidence?

GUTFELD: Guns are the purest gender equalizer on the planet. Men have 50 percent more muscle mass. If she needs to defend herself and her family. She should have every right to. Don't talk about gun control. It's a gun stealing when you prevent women from guns. He's -- that was the worse answer.

RIVERA: Who's preventing though? Who's preventing women from guns?

GUTFELD: Well, he's a -- did you hear his response? He basically said, you know what?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: It could be used against you.

GUTFELD: A gun -- a gun can be -- he basically said don't have a gun because it could be used against you.

GUILFOYLE: That's gender discrimination.

RIVERA: You're burying -- you are bending -- you are burying his lead. He said there's nothing in what I'm proposing that would any way hinder you...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But he said...

RIVERA: ... a law-abiding citizen from getting a gun.

GUTFELD: And then, but then he said, you know what, if you have a gun it could be used against you.

GUILFOYLE: You should qualify it.

GUTFELD: Because you're a lady, you might not be able to use it correctly.

PERINO: But there is one other thing that she said. She said if it restricts where I need to go or where I can go.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So, she didn't -- I don't -- she's been saying whether she had fired her gun at another assailant. What that gun does for her is gives her confidence to be able to move about with her children where she doesn't have to be afraid.

What they just recently did in Virginia, again, outside of the state legislature, is they cut off the reciprocity. So, let's say she lives in Tennessee and she has a Concealed Carry Permit. Now that will no longer be recognize in Virginia. And they did that by FIAT.

So, I think that's the other issue of this is that it's not just a background check, it's the ability to go where she needs to go, where she can feel that she's confident and safe.

BOLLING: And the good news is if she now, she carries a firearm, she's no longer a gun-free zone.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. She can...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: She wants to protect her family.

GUTFELD: But on the other hand...

BOLLING: Why did the NRA punk out? Why did the NRA run scared?

GUTFELD: Because they knew it would be a big set up. I was just going to compliment President Obama...

RIVERA: Run his fear.

GUTFELD: ... and say that that was a very tough question to face, a woman who has been raped who is asking to be, who is saying look, I want my --the fact that he stood there and took that I think was brave.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: And the NRA had every reason not to be there because they were knew they were being set up.

PERINO: But one, they also knew that it was based on the San Bernardino attack.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Which is not about guns.

GUILFOYLE: He started to handle it will well and then he faltered in his staff.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And you know what, you're looking at a woman who has been raped and brutalized and he's saying I'm going to restrict your ability to defend yourself. People are saying it seems like gender discrimination to me.

BOLLING: All right. Well, we got to leave it right there. Still to come, Facebook Friday. But first, the show that's making steam come out of Greg's ears "Making a Murder" on Netflix. The White House has responded to the petition to pardon the two convicted killers featured in that series. The answer when The Five returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Netflix set up a firestorm with its new series, "Making a Murder" at leading many viewers to believe that the two convicted killers that features are innocent. But key evidence that that prove their guilt in a 2005 killings was left out of the show.

More than 100,000 people have since signed a petition for the White House to pardon Steven Avery and its nephew, Brendan Dassey. The administration has now responded. "Because Avery and Dassey were convicted in a State Court the president doesn't have the power to pardon them."

But the White House did seem to cast a little suspicion on the way that justice played out. Saying, quote, "While this case is out of the administration's purview, President Obama is committed to restoring the sense of fairness at the heart of our justice system."

Open the doors and let the killers out. Is that what he means by fairness?

PERINO: I just don't understand why the White House feels they have to comment on everything that comes through their door.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: Like you can just say that we have no purview. The president has no purview over the state court.

RIVERA: Did everybody is talking for them in fairness?

PERINO: You don't have to do it from the White House. You don't have to try to put yourself on the scale of justice from the White House.

RIVERA: Over 100,000 cases...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Who cares?

GUTFELD: A murderer who boiled a -- it set a cat on fire. I think President Obama, I would rather have you play golf.

PERINO: Good point.

BOLLING: Well, is that what it is because it is so much in the hike...

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Yes.

BOLLING: ... they said people they need to stay, they so appear like...

RIVERA: Yes, if you're talking politics, yes.

BOLLING: How is this politics? This isn't politics.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: No, it is all the rage, everybody is talking about.

GUILFOYLE: It's the pop culture president pick. It's about being popular.

PERINO: It's what the president pick.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. It is commenting on...

BOLLING: Exactly. I think that now he made it...

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: What is more important is the fact that here, you had a slanted documentary.

BOLLING: yes.

RIVERA: Powerful, Greg and I have been discussing this advocacy journalism. They selectively chose what they included and what they excluded. What you have here, in my opinion, I covered the story with Laurie Angle, our reporter on At Large back in '06. What you have here in my view is someone who is guilty, but framed. I think that you have someone who, they had him totally and then they threw other crap...

GUTFELD: True. That's right.

PERINO: Yes. You said that is an enquiry (ph).

GUTFELD: I think -- I think there is like, for example, there are certain things that are fishy. But then there are certain things that aren't, like the sweat. His non-blood DNA.

BOLLING: Right.

GUTFELD: Nobody is smart enough to frame somebody with that. And there are other things that were left out of the documentary like that he bought handcuffs and leg irons three weeks before the woman was raped and murdered.

There are things like that he was obsessing and calling her. And a lot of people like, I feel cheated. The reason why that bugged me is I watched 10 hours of this and I believed that he was wronged.

RIVERA: Get a life.

GUTFELD: Yes, I know, it's true. And then I read everything that all of you futon detectives should do the same thing in memory of the woman who was rape and murdered and you should read up on that.

RIVERA: And mutilated.

GUTFELD: And mutilated, you should read up on this because you'll find you wasted ten hours, too.

PERINO: Can I ask Kimberly something?

GUIFOYLE: Sure.

PERINO: In this case, if both things are true that he can't be guilty and that there was evidence-planting and corruption, how does that shake out if both things are true? Does the justice decide?

GUIFOYLE: Well the bottom line is, if you were tried to do an appeal in this case and say OK, there was evidence that was tainted or that was planted or fabricated. Would the conviction still stand? Like, these are sufficient evidence to show that this is a person beyond a reasonable doubt that committed these crimes. And if you look at the rest of the evidence there, I mean, this is the problem.

RIVERA: I disagree slightly. I think that there might be reason for retrial. I think that the biggest thing that lay people sometimes overlook is there's a huge difference between being not guilty and being innocent. He may be not guilty by reason of some shenanigans, planting of evidence and so forth. But he is not innocent.

PERINO: Right.

RIVERA: But I think that there could be.

GUIFOYLE: But is that sufficient evidence beyond the reasonable.

RIVERA: ...reasonable cause for a retrial.

GUIFOYLE: OK but so what? So, if they go to a retrial even, do you feel there's sufficient evidence to...

RIVERA: And you exclude the.

GUIFOYLE: . uphold the conviction? Yes.

RIVERA: ... perverse, this sort of evidence.

GUIFOYLE: Based on the evidentiary hearing. If the judge rules that that evidence should be excluded and there's evidence to show not just speculation or mere conjecture by people watching at home, that in fact this is evidence that was planted. Yes, then it would be excluded and.

ERICBOLLING: The murderer is behind bars, so the world is fine right now, right?

RIVERA: Pragmatically speaking, you're absolutely correct.

BOLLING, "THE FIVE" HOST, FOX NEWS: So, let's not reopen it.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: It's not up to you.

GUTFELD: If the person who reopens it, you have to sign a contract that if he gets out, he has to live next door to you.

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: Yes.

PERINO: I feel bad for the taxpayers. None of them.

GUTFELD: He dates your sister.

GUIFOYLE: He doesn't have to live at next door. He can sleep on your futon.

GUTFELD: Exactly, the futon detectives, he could stay with you in Airbnb.

RIVERA: You feel bad for the taxpayer but how do we feel that the key with the DNA on it was at the -- on the bookshelf apparently and somehow it got shaken out. And then the next time they looked.

GUTFELD: That happens. I drop stuff behind my bookcase all the time.

RIVERA: It doesn't happen in real life.

GUTFELD: It does. I've lost so many watches that way.

RIVERA: It's when the cop wants you, the cop will.

GUTFELD: What about the bullet with her DNA from came from his gun?

RIVERA: I'm saying I believe he's guilty. I believe he's guilty.

GUIFOYLE: But also, there can be -- there's multiple searches and something could have been put in a different position after the first search and go back...

RIVERA: Well, doesn't it remind you of O.J. Simpson. Isn't it O.J. Simpson.

GUIFOYLE: You mean where the guy's guilty.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Being (ph) innocent?

RIVERA: A mountain of evidence but maybe a little gilding of the lily here or there?

PERINO: Kimberly with the line of the night.

GUIFOYLE: Guilty.

PERINO: All right, we wrap that up, jury of five.

GUTFELD: That brought us the Kardashians.

PERINO: Thank god.

GUIFOYLE: Yes, yes. All right, fine, let's go, quick, it's getting dirty and weird. If you've watched all ten hours of, "Making a Murder" and think you've got the whole thing figured out. Make sure to catch Greg's obsession on the show tomorrow night. He's going to be speaking to a news producer who lived through this trial as it happened and he has tracked the arguments, fair and balanced. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: There wasn't much about the victim and her story and her family.

BRIAN TULLY, FOX NEWS PRODUCER: There was so much that we saw, the family made their selves available. They welcomed our reporters into their houses, they would talk every single day after court which the defense lawyers did as well.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TULLY: But I think that, if they're going to speculate that perhaps someone else did this. Then, don't you think that the producers should use her photo a little bit more?

GUTFELD: Right.

TULLY: And then show some interviews of the family and help find the person who did it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUIFOYLE: Up next, Mexico just recaptured its most-wanted drug lord. El Chapo now back in custody, that big arrest when, "The Five" returns and Geraldo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIVERA: They got him, the man among those most responsible for the flood of heroin and other hard drugs pouring on to the streets of the United States. The billionaire Mexican drug kingpin known as El Chapo, he's finally been recaptured six months after his dramatic infuriating escape from a maximum-security Mexican prison in July.

The escape caught on tape. First, you see him pacing around in his cell. Then he walks over to his cell's toilet area, the one spot invisible to surveillance cameras. He disappears after he bends down, escaping through a sophisticated mile-long tunnel that I saw with my own eyes firsthand days after his escape. Now to the tremendous relief of the Mexican people who were humiliated and outraged by El Chapo's escape.

Their embattled president Enrique Penianieto announcing this afternoon, the capture in the town of Los Mochis, of El Chapo's six associates following, what are you doing? A furious gun battle, five of his thugs killed by the marines, he's gone and Kimberly.

GUIFOYLE: I love it.

BOLLING: Is it 6:00 already?

GUIFOYLE: It only would've gotten better if you had caught him. Remember when you were on and we were looking for him and then we were trying to find you.

RIVERA: What about Bin Laden, I have chased Bin Laden for years, I think. And it turns out I was closer than a lot of authorities.

GUIFOYLE: Just missed him too but you were on the night.

RIVERA: The president says, of Mexico says, "Our citizens can trust us." Should we trust?

GUIFOYLE: That's what they all say. Should we trust them? Right, probably not.

RIVERA: Let me just check this out.

GUIFOYLE: The other leg (ph) is hot.

RIVERA: Focus, focus, we caught El Chapo.

GUTFELD: You know why to me, why didn't he go.

RIVERA: I withdraw my question to Kimberly. You missed your opportunity.

GUTFELD: Why didn't he go to San Francisco? It was a sanctuary city.

RIVERA: Well done. Dana in New Hampshire, heroin addiction is the number one issue.

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: I believe that in many ways the winner, the reasons Chris Christie, put it this way, is surging in New Hampshire is because the perception that he can deal with the heroin epidemic. Don't you think we have to pay a lot more to this? And isn't this good news?

PERINO: That El Chapo is gone? Yes. Do I think that it'll do much good? Because I feel like ones El Chapo's gone, it's like al Qaeda. Then the next guy comes up. So, then that we have an El Chapo number two.

GUIFOYLE: A numero dos, like El Chapo.

PERINO: This thing is that the violence in Mexico is just astounding. There was a young woman who was very popular in a southern Mexican city...

GUIFOYLE: She was murdered.

PERINO: ... she ran for office, as mayor. She's murdered one day after. You know, you cannot, you have a total and complete absence of leadership and a collapse...

GUIFOYLE: Terrible.

PERINO: ... of order in Mexico. So yes, I'm glad El Chapo is caught. But I assume there's another El Chapo right behind him.

RIVERA: Cruz, his lieutenant did escape. You're right in that.

BOLLING: Hopefully our DOJ gets him extradited to the United States. This is the most important point and but we didn't do it the first time.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All closed up.

BOLLING: We weren't hard enough on the Mexican authority. The one Mexican we want, we can't get over here and put him in jail. Instead...

GUIFOYLE: Bolling retract, retract.

PERINO: Take it back.

BOLLING: Whatever, I take it back. All right but we do need to have...

RIVERA: Do you see what I have to deal with?

BOLLING: Do you agree there?

RIVERA: I think that...

BOLLING: He should be tried here.

RIVERA: In all seriousness and that the editorial point, the second editorial point that we cannot overlook. He must be extradited to the United States as soon as possible. I understand Mexican pride and nationalism and sovereignty and all the rest of it.

He has escaped twice from their maximum security facilities. He belongs six stories underground in Colorado. In a Supermax where he never sees the...

GUTFELD: Geraldo, wait, wait, wait. He escaped again. You know what, he's with the affluenza kid and his mother. And he is in a strip club.

BOLLING: Can I just clarify my comment of the one illegal Mexican...

GUIFOYLE: They had to wake the mom up to pay the bill.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: This is why the republicans will lose the election.

GUIFOYLE: Bolling loves Mexico and he vacations there often. Yes, he loves Mexican-Americans.

RIVERA: And he goes to Chipotle.

BOLLING: I identify as Latino. I don't go to Chipotle.

RIVERA: You need a mustache.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Up next, Facebook Friday, don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Back when I was a kid, they called me uncle fester because I was bald.

RIVERA: They call you El Chapo because you're short.

GUTFELD: That is true, thank you Geraldo. I'll call you El Putin. All right, Facebook Friday, first one of 2015. This is going to be good, kiddo. All right, we're going to start with Dana and we're going to go around. This is from Mark S. If you were an automobile, what would you be? That's pretty good, I like that.

PERINO: I don't even drive. I think I would be...

GUIFOYLE: She takes the subway.

PERINO: I don't drive.

GUTFELD: I would tell you, you would be.

RIVERA: A cooper.

GUTFELD: A mini cooper.

GUIFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUIFOYLE: ... a big wheel.

GUTFELD: Or a matchbox.

BOLLING: mini coopers aren't that small.

GUIFOYLE: Yes they are.

PERINO: My first car was a Dodge Turismo.

GUTFELD: Nice.

GUIFOYLE: I had a Dodge Dart with a slant 6 engine.

BOLLING, "THE FIVE" HOST, FOX NEWS: Baby.

GUIFOYLE: Gorgeous.

GUTFELD: That's amazing.

GUIFOYLE: And really fast.

GUTFELD: Eric, what kind of car would you be?

BOLLING: Probably an SUV. Family car, big car, you know.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Kimberly?

PERINO: OK, more like a Bentley.

GUIFOYLE: I think something pink and fabulous. Like a hot pink corvette.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Like Barbie would drive.

BOLLING: I got one for you. The new Ford GT at the end of the year. Have you seen that car?

(CROSSTALK)

It looks like a Mach 5.

GUTFELD: I like the Barbie corvette.

BOLLING: How much for a ford?

GUTFELD: 25?

BOLLING: $400,000 for this car.

GUIFOYLE: Can you get it for me?

GUTFELD: I would be a pinto, because I have an exploding behind.

GUIFOYLE: El beano.

GUTFELD: Even the producers didn't like that. OK, we'll start with Kimberly, go around. From Jeanna M, what has been your most embarrassing moment on the show?

GUIFOYLE: OK.

GUTFELD: I just had mine.

GUIFOYLE: True story?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: I know.

GUIFOYLE: Which one, the basketball one?

BOLLING: Yes.

GUIFOYLE: The basketball. I don't even want to say it. No one even knows where that is.

GUTFELD: Then try to explain it.

GUIFOYLE: So, I don't know what the competition was. We're like, we can play - you know, I'm a competitor, right?

GUTFELD: My goodness, I know this one.

GUIFOYLE: With those chicken wing eating. So, we're doing like, who can shoot the most hoops. And I won, thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

GUIFOYLE: And so, you have to get as many balls in as you can. (INAUDIBLE) so I start going like this, don't take the shot on the gif, and I'm throwing it and making an underhand, doing them. I'm like, and then there's somebody's taking slow motion. It's like, it was terrible.

GUTFELD: There was a certain shot that America saw.

GUIFOYLE: And I was so upset and then I was like, Bolling just watch it. Tell me how bad it is. And he can't even speak.

BOLLING: And my answer was, it's pretty bad.

RIVERA: What was it like...

GUTFELD: Geraldo, what's your most embarrassing moment? You have plenty to choose from.

RIVERA: When Bolling...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But it was my fault.

RIVERA: My gosh, sorry.

GUTFELD: Yeah, that was pretty bad.

GUIFOYLE: Provocateur.

GUTFELD: That beat at the vault (ph)?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I feel like that was a great line that actually saved my career.

GUIFOYLE: Yeah...

GUTFELD: Eric.

BOLLING: The last block when I said - when I was joking about El Chapo. What I meant to say, the only illegal Mexican..

(CROSSTALK)

No, you know what the most embarrassing moment was when I knocked over the coffee on the opening shot.

GUIFOYLE: And i kept reading.

GUTFELD: That was like, stack of like homeless paper.

GUIFOYLE: And they're like this, Toonsis the cat and i just kept reading.

PERINO: That was good. Let's see. I have multiple ones.

GUIFOYLE: True.

PERINO: I think, I guess our New Year's Eve show from this year is the one that comes to mind, when I didn't mean to make a sexual innuendo, but i did. You took it that way and i was embarrassed.

GUIFOYLE: Wow you chose that one.

PERINO: Yesterday was pretty embarrassing.

GUIFOYLE: What about when you did the rapping?

GUTFELD: That was pretty...

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Well, what did you do yesterday?

GUIFOYLE: And you had the glitter on.

PERINO: Yesterday, I told a corny joke, and botched the ending but the punch line is funny. I'll tell you in the commercial break.

GUTFELD: I remember my embarrassing moment. Do you remember when I spit and I spit. I was talking and I just this massive like, rainbow of saliva. I just saw it in slow motion.

(CROSSTALK)

GUIFOYLE: Notice, everything, the rainbows, the unicorns, the spit. Just saying.

GUTFELD: All right. Now the next one, this is from Matthew. I'll start with you Eric. What is the -- Matthew R. asks, what is the worst job you've ever had and why?

BOLLING: Well, it may be the worst job but it's the highest paying job I've ever had. I agreed to work on -- in Chicago which was a union job at the time. I had to work on streets and curbs. They have to drill into a curb when you replace the street. Curb goes in first, you have to put an iron rod into the side of the curb and you have to re-bar into the side. So, you have to drill sideways. The most difficult thing you've ever done in a hot summer but we were paid well.

GUTFELD: I bet you were shirtless.

GUIFOYLE: So, it wasn't being a traitor? By the way Chelly (ph) asked for you and paged you a comment that you were fantastic...

RIVERA: Did you make any money?

BOLLING: Trading, yes.

GUIFOYLE: Yes.

RIVERA: I mean, are they all going broke now?

(CROSSTALK)

Is $35 oil, is it going to go bellow $35?

BOLLING: It's going to go 25, its 32...

RIVERA: $25.

PERINO: They have a "Wall Street journal" op-ed about the low price of oil recession. The first one...

GUTFELD: Worst job, Dana.

PERINO: Well, I have been blessed. I've had lots of good jobs but I would say -- there was one job i only did one shift.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I was -- I went to a steakhouse, a chain steakhouse. I was going to be a waitress there and I got there and then they wanted me to wear this silly outfit -- and I said, "You know what, I'm not going to do this." I actually had to file a W-2 for that. I got paid like $16.

GUTFELD: That would have been great if you said you were like a candystriper at the hospital. It was terrible.

PERINO: Terrible job.

GUTFELD: Yes, the uniform and the kids. Geraldo?

RIVERA: short-order cook in my dad's diner because I was in law school.

PERINO: What did people ask for the most? What did they most order?

RIVERA: You know, most of them are drunk and want to eat greasy food. So, eggs over light and I just - what you do is you put yourself into the performance of that job. Getting the eggs, flip it out, breaking the yolks and things of that nature. You get splattered with grease. You get home smelling like a grill.

PERINO: Yes, character building.

GUTFELD: Kimberly?

GUIFOYLE: Lingerie model but the money warmed me up.

GUTFELD: I was a lingerie model too, I enjoyed every minute.

GUIFOYLE: Not.

GUTFELD: Yeah, it was chilly and nobody liked looking at me. I bottled soda. I didn't last very long. I bottled grape beer, grape that bottling that was in the old gas station.

PERINO: Oh my god.

GUTFELD: I bottled that soda.

GUIFOYLE: It sounds like what Lucy and Ethel say, I can only imagine.

GUTFELD: A guy bottled his thumb in front of me. I didn't go back. And he was walking around and his thumb was off, on key things (ph). See, they don't like the gross stories at 5:00.

RIVERA: Did you sell that soda?

GUTFELD: Yes. One more thing up next.

GUIFOYLE: Thumb's up!

PERINO: Time now for one more thing. Greg?

GUTFELD: A new little thing. Greg's dance tips. You know one of the most popular dances of the last 30 years is now coming back. It's called the worm. A lot of celebrities are doing it.

We have footage of Jeremy Piven doing it at an outdoor club. Can you see him trying it out on the deck of I think this is a casino -- Hard Rock casino in Vegas. See, that's the exact way you do the worm. It's quite impressive.

PERINO: He's got a lot of core strength.

GUTFELD: Yeah, well "Entourage" performs clearly (ph).

GUIFOYLE: Is that when the mercury poisoning, remember...

BOLLING: We so needed music for that.

RIVERA: What did Jeremy Piven do to you?

GUTFELD: He bored me.

PERINO: All right, I'm going to go next. Recently, I got to sit down with our very own James Rosen and interviewed him for C-SPAN. He had a - James Rosen had a book called, "Cheney One-On-One." It's a very good book and I got to interview him. Its will air on C-SPAN at 10:00 p.m. this weekend, on Saturday night and then Sunday at 12:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. Eastern. There's a little sneak peak.

Does he know how controversial he is? And does it bother him?

JAMES ROSENN, "Cheney One-On-One": Yes and no. At the end of the ten hours I finally allowed the words "Darth Vader" to escape my lips and I asked him if he believes that that caricature of him is going to prevail in historical memory of him, such that he is popularly or widely misunderstood.

PERINO: You're going to have to watch this weekend to find out the rest of it. We spent an hour talking to and it was really great. It's a really good book, I have to say.

BOLLING: He's a great reporter, James Rosen.

GUIFOYLE: Yes, and well done.

PERINO: I thank you, I was so kind.

GUTFELD: You looked great by the way.

RIVERA: Yeah, you look great.

PERINO: Yeah, whatever.

RIVERA: C-SOAN is they're going to have...

PERINO: I did my own makeup.

RIVERA: They'll have a lot of heart attacks.

BOLLING: They have those crank callers at C-SPAN.

PERINO: All right, Eric.

BOLLING: Hello, this is Eric from Wisconsin and, you are...

PERINO: I thought Eric was...

BOLLING: I love your dress or, you know.

GUIFOYLE: Greg, Dana, Eric.

BOLLING: OK. So, tonight make sure you check out, it's crazy, right. This, right here, Geraldo and I will be on the O'reilly Factor.

(CROSSTALK)

Go ahead check it out. You see that point? Nina (ph) what's with that banner underneath? Can you please fix that banner? Watch Bolling to -- that's much better now.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: In your dreams, in your dreams.

GUIFOYLE: Wait, why are you wearing a tie?

BOLLING: Preemptively talk about why I said that, what I said about the Mexicans thing and...

GUIFOYLE: Yes, exactly. So, last night -- I'm calling on myself. So, last night I had the pleasure to be with my friend, Hoda Kotb (ph) and Kathie Lee. We were all there to celebrate the success and the launch of Hoda's new book, "Where We Belong, Journeys that show us the way."

It's a great compilation of stories, a collection of stories by individuals who realized their path in life. With either veering off or completely in the wrong direction or getting too far off course from where they knew they needed to be. So, follow your gut, your heart, your passions, and get you back on track. Really great and there we are there, having a little...

GUTFELD: Ladies.

... of the Vino like they do. So, big kiss, lots of success, and you can see it on my Facebook and Twitter.

RIVERA: When Kimberly and Eric were celebrating in Times Square on New Year's Eve, I was on a roots (ph) pilgrimage with, Feliz, Anya, and Nueva (ph), with my family, my cousins and my aunty on the island and with Ericka (ph). That's my cousin Sonia (ph). That's our grandparents, Viera(ph), Juan(ph), and Tomasa (ph) and there's a picture of the summer i turned 16, that's me...

GUTFELD: Everybody is shirtless.

RIVERA: That's where I learned it. That's my point.

PERINO: All right, set your DVRs, never miss an episode of, "The Five." That's it for us. Have a great weekend, everyone, "Special Report" is next.

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