Will president's executive action curb gun violence?

Obama opens 2016 with final-year push on gun control


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 5, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Today, President Obama unveiled the actions he plans to take without the consent of Congress to restrict gun use in America. Among them, expanding background checks to almost anyone buying a firearm from a dealer. He says his plans are constitutional. He also set some constraints on freedom are necessary to protect innocent people. And then, he got emotional.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Our unalienable right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness, those rights were stripped from college kids in Blacksburg and Santa Barbara and from high schoolers in Columbine, and from first graders in Newtown, first graders. And from every family who never imagined that their loved one would be taken from our lives by a bullet from a gun. Every time I think about those kids, it gets me mad. And by the way, it happens on the streets of Chicago every day.


BOLLING: Now listen, we all get emotional when you hear children being killed, but where was that emotion for the victims of San Bernardino terror attack? And where is the emotion calling Islamic terror what it is, Islamic and terrorism? Those tears, Mr. Obama, I think ISIS sees them as emotional strength or weakness? I'm just asking Juan, do you disagree with me?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Yeah, boy. You think John Boehner is a weak man? No.

BOLLING: I didn't --


BOLLING: You're probably the wrong guy to ask on.


WILLIAMS: OK, I'm just saying, I don't say. To me, I think this is what you want. I mean, Obama -- my thing is he's too cool at times. And so if you're asking me as a human being, I just think, I just think I don't want to be shot. I don't want to be walking in my neighborhood and some thug picked on. I don't -- I'm just tired of it.

BOLLING: No, I don't -- believe me, I'm not disagreeing with that aspect of that. KG, what I'm kind of wondering about here is the gun control debate, the argument. When he goes for it, executive action, he opens the door. Does he open the door to more down the road?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, of course, and right, this is his kind of favorite go-to. This is the way that he's able to achieve of the outcomes that he wants that are specific to his ideology. I don't begrudge him showing the emotion. He's a father and anybody talking about children and the loss of lives. But I also think about the children and the Christians that are being murdered and beheaded, and executed, and disabled children being executed by ISIS. And I want to see our president show that level of emotion, and resolve, and passion to achieve the ends that we need as far as it relates to national security and in keeping Americans safe. And doing the right thing, taking the position of power and influence that we have held in the world that people admire and respect that we are the ones you call when are you in greatest need. And I see that he has it, but I don't want him to cry about the Second Amendment. I want him to keep Second Amendment where it is, and worry about getting the bad guys that have the guns and not persecuting the guns.

BOLLING: And that, he did, Greg, he pointed that out. It happens in Chicago every day, but I'm not sure that anything he proposed today would fix what's going on in Chicago every day.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: The thing about emotion is, and I do believe it's real, but emotion isn't facts. And one of the facts is in Chicago, for example, police shootings homicides are down, but other shootings are up. And gang violence is a big problem, but they can't go there on gang violence because one, if you come from a political background that says every prisoner is a political prisoner, you don't want to put people in prisons. Number two, if you want to cut gang violence, then you have to address the idea of drug legalization. Since the overwhelming majority of gun violence are gun fights among gangs, but to these background checks, two points -- if they are so great, make them free, but if they cost anywhere from $60 to $100. The reason why they aren't free is because they feel that the price is a deterrent. But if it is a deterrent, that would only affect poor people because they can't afford the money. We're still gonna get our guns, we're gonna pay the piece. But lastly, John Lott put up this amazing study - two days ago. He -- it's a first-ever study of background checks, whether they reduced the risk of these mass public shootings. He looked from 2000 to 2015 and from that, additional checks on private transfers of guns raises the risk of these shootings, or of these deaths, rate of killing by 80 percent. So these background checks are actually harmful. This is what's called a --

WILLIAMS: Well, explain.

GUTFELD: It's called a hate fact. You hate to hear it because it's true.

WILLIAMS: Well, what -- I don't get it, explain to me.

GUTFELD: No, you just look it, ran the numbers.


WILLIAMS: But how could that be?


BOLLING: Here's what happens. Because the cost of a background check, you're forcing more people who may not require a background check to know, require the background check. That cost goes immediately to the purchaser, right?

GUTFELD: Yeah, right.

BOLLING: Because the seller is not going to eat that cost, it's going to go to the purchaser. What happens to the purchaser? He says I don't want to pay that money for the background check, he's going to go it an illegal gun, or he's not gonna get a gun. So therefore, the crime against people in poverty, minorities, et cetera, goes up because of increased regulation of background checks.


BOLLING: That's the logic behind the --

WILLIAMS: I think that's kind of convoluted. I mean, Greg --


WILLIAMS: I mean I didn't understand what Greg said. But I just think that's kind of convoluted.

BOLLING: Why is it convoluted?

WILLIAMS: Because I think that --

BOLLING: At cost to something, it's going to prohibit a certain group of people from -- and being able to afford buy it.

WILLIAMS: Well, if can you afford to buy a gun. I think you can afford the $60 -- did you say $60, I don't know what the price is.

BOLLING: Higher, but --


WILLIAMS: But $60 for a background checks.

GUTFELD: Talking about (inaudible) I think.

WILLIAMS: I think that Americans -- this is overwhelming. I don't get this. Republicans gun owners support background checks.

GUTFELD: Hey, I'm from -- I'm for background checks, I hope they work. But I don't see the evidence that they work. By the way, homicides have been cut in half in 25 years, anyway with guns.



BOLLING: And I talk about the political ramifications, the fall out of this, is this a good wedge issue for 2016?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think the president thinks so, but -- couple of things, so his -- they have poll-tested this a lot. This is something he's been talking about ever since he was in the state senate in Illinois. So he knows the issue very well. Think what you saw today was just -- when he welled up with emotion. I went -- I recently heard a saying that you can't really know a man's heart until you know what can break it. And Obama hasn't been one that has shown a lot of these emotions, especially when it comes to tears. And so, that was a moment -- it's almost as if he made eye contact with somebody in the crowd who maybe has been affected by Sandy Hook and he knows those families. And I can't imagine what it would be like having been there, but it's not -- I wasn't the president. Where you walk in, you have to give the president bad news, like with Virginia Tech shooting, and I think 2007, when President Bush was in office. It does affect them because they take it a little bit personally. And that's what President Obama is doing, which is why I don't know exactly how the politics will come out, because making things personal doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to achieve anything. On a democratic side, it probably helps a little bit in some of those districts and states where you have democrats running for office that say that they want to be able to point to something that President Obama did on the issue that they care about, if it is guns. The interesting thing on the republican side, though, is that it could actually increase enthusiasm of republicans to turn out. One of the things I don't understand why the president didn't do this is he has the power to convene, and because there is bipartisan support on some of the issues when you look at the polling, he could have pulled together a bipartisan group and made the members stand up there with him, to say how are we going to deal with this if we can't find any sort of way on mental health or something.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you think that didn't happen?

PERINO: I think because he -- I think that he had such a dislike for members of Congress. And you remember the democratic Senate in 2013 -- he couldn't pass it.

WILLIAMS: I was gonna, I was gonna raise. I was gonna raise that point.

PERINO: When they had the democrats in office, either. So the politics.

WILLIAMS: It support of your point.

PERINO: The politics aren't exactly there. If I can just add one last thing -- it was reported that this new action, that the president wants to put forward, will require the FBI to hire about 230 more agents. Recently, the FBI has told us that we have open investigations about -- with ISIS in all 50 states. I would imagine the FBI director would much rather have 230 more full-time people to be able help prevent the San Bernardino's, that we know are probably coming and being plotted right now, than they would be to have them to do more background checks.

WILLIAMS: But I think it is part of that story. I think if you have better background checks, you can stop some of the people who we talk about here in terms of terrorists and bad people from getting guns. And this also includes, and I would think this would add.

BOLLING: But wait, do terrorists and bad people give background checks? Pay for background checks?

WILLIAMS: Well, apparently, this guy got the guns from a friend, the guy in San Bernardino. And I think.

BOLLING: Right, which wouldn't help.

WILLIAMS: No, I think if they had done background checks, if they had insisted on really --

GUTFELD: It didn't stop Aurora, it didn't stop Fort Hood.

WILLIAMS: Didn't stop it, but I don't say let's not.


WILLIAMS: The president said today, "Let's not debate the last one. Let's talk about stopping the next one."

GUTFELD: Yeah, because if you debate the last one, you are wrong.

GUILFOYLE: The fact those supporters.


GUTFELD: But to go to the terror thing -- this is an interesting thing. Guns didn't make not those people kill San Bernardino innocents, radical Islam did. So the argument over the guns pulls them out of that. It's also with suicide. When he talks about suicide, you don't kill yourself because of a gun. You kill yourself with the gun.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but you know in fact.

GUTFELD: You focus on, with the gun.

WILLIAMS: You have easy access to the gun and more easily done.


GUTFELD: Background checks will not stop suicides.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. Well, I'm just saying, what we don't want to aim for suicides.

GUTFELD: Unless your doctor stops you.

BOLLING: You know what a background checks are also doing?

WILLIAMS: Tell me.

BOLLING: You hate gun ownership.


BOLLING: You hate the proliferation of gun ownership in America, right?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Oh, I said easy access.

BOLLING: Numerous times you said 300 million guns.


BOLLING: In America is too many.


BOLLING: You know what's happening with all these gun control talk? People are flocking to buy guns right now.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

BOLLING: Background checks -- 44 a minute in 2015, 44 background checks a minute in 2015.

GUILFOYLE: It's like the best thing to happen to the gun lobby.

BOLLING: To the gun lobby and gun owners.

GUILFOYLE: It's like, hey, we're getting result --

WILLIAMS: You know what they said.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, because people are worried about the gun curb.

WILLIAMS: The gun lobby is exploiting --

GUILFOYLE: And the infringement on the Second Amendment.

WILLIAMS: There is no infringement. Even the NRA said today.

GUILFOYLE: Ay yai yai.

WILLIAMS: You mean after all of these years.

BOLLING: Good transition.

WILLIAMS: This is so thin.

PERINO: That is.

BOLLING: Good transition. The president also tore into the gun lobby and accused groups like the NRA of holding Congress hostage. Here's to see why there would be a divide over his proposals.


OBAMA: But I also believe that we can find way to reduce gun violence consistent with the Second Amendment. How did this become such a partisan issue? Even the NRA used to support expanded background checks. And by the way, most of its members still do, most republican voters still do. How did we get here? How did we get to the place where people think requiring a comprehensive background check means taking away people's guns?


BOLLING: And then the NRA put out a statement following the speech saying the president's proposed actions will be, quote, "ripe for abuse" by his administration and won't allow gun-abiding -- gun, law-abiding gun owners to become scapegoats for his failed policies. Now there is a big -- when he said earlier in the sound bite.


GUTFELD: OK. He politicized this. He's the one -- no, not Juan. Juan, he brazenly said.

WILLIAMS: Oh come on. This is it.

GUTFELD: It's time, it's -- whenever there's a tragedy. You got to politicize this. But I'll give you -- I think we can meet on, in one mid- area, Juan, if you will.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUTFELD: A lot of this is all about suspicion. The left is suspicion of -- suspicious of the right and the right is suspicious of the left. We don't trust President Obama. We think that every small step is leading to a bigger absolute thing like a ban. It's the same way the left feels about the right on abortion. That every little, every little twists or turn at the edges is going to lead to a reversal of Roe v. Wade.


GUTFELD: It's exactly a mirror. We don't trust each other. So that's why there's no bipartisanship on this stuff.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think there's no bipartisanship because you have an NRA out there that has directly --

GUTFELD: And you have Planned Parenthood. See my point?


GUTFELD: They're the same, WILLIAMS: You think Planned Parenthood spends as much as the NRA? No. Not even close.

GUTFELD: You know what I mean. I said this --

WILLIAMS: Oh no, I get your point. I said -- OK.


WILLIAMS: I do get your point. I hear you, but I'm just saying, I think the suspicion is a legitimate point you're making, but I don't think in terms of counting the money and the political power, I don't think it's even comparable. I will say this, talk about smart guns, why don't, why don't people come together on the idea that, yeah, we can have trigger that recognize people.


WILLIAMS: We can have chip ID's, we can do a lots of things that would in fact, lower it.

BOLLING: All infringing on the Second Amendment right.

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but I guess my point is.

WILLIAMS: Of course, you can still own a gun.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, what would you do?


GUILFOYLE: You know you, and the individuals that have your same beliefs. What will you do when you get what you want, perhaps, someday and still the violence, the terrorism, the mass shootings, happen?

WILLIAMS: I would say, well, we have a Second Amendment and the court has affirmed it, so we have to live. But I don't think we have this.

GUILFOYLE: The problem is what their --

WILLIAMS: To live in the dark ages.


WILLIAMS: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I wonder what's in the dark ages.

WILLIAMS: Without smart guns, without improving the technology, without making an effort to keep them out of people.

GUILFOYLE: That's not what we were talking. That's not what we were talking about.

WILLIAMS: Keep us out of hands of people who shouldn't have them.

BOLLING: All right, hang in there Juan.

GUILFOYLE: They will get the guns.

BOLLING: Final thought before we go.

PERINO: Sure. I would say that remarkable -- this is fairly remarkable today that he had this big of an outpouring on the news on Thursday -- in two days. It's been a long week and it's only Tuesday. He's going to have the town hall and in Virginia, he's going to talk about this. So this is the lead-up to his State of the Union Address. The State of the Union is where you say, this is the State of the Union and these are my proposals and my ideas for the next 12 months, my last year in office. But this is at a time when less than 2 percent of people say that gun violence and ownership is their number one concern. Their number one concern is terrorism, ISIS and the economy, as it should be.

BOLLING: Where is that town hall, Thursday?

PERINO: Virginia.

BOLLING: Very interesting, right?


BOLLING: All right, ahead. Special guests will be joining us, presidential candidate John Kasich is here. We're gonna ask him what he thinks about the president's latest push to restrict guns and how he plans to win the republican nomination, back in a moment.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back to The Five, we are very pleased to welcome our republican presidential hopeful to our table now. Ohio Governor John Kasich is here with us, he's going live on the Five. And there's just 27 days left until the first election contest in Iowa. But he seems to be setting his sights on New Hampshire, where the first of the nation primary will be held on February 9th. He's been campaigning in the state all week and just released another new ad there today. Welcome to The Five.


GUILFOYLE: Pleasure to have you here, governor. So tell us about all your big plans and how you're going to wreck everybody else by getting the nomination.


KASICH: Well, you know here's the thing that's amazing about New Hampshire and you have followed it Dana, very closely. There's 1.2 million people in that state, it's like running for mayor of a -- you know, a basically a middle-sized city. And the 1.2 million, I've seen all of them twice, so I only have two more times to go.

GUILFOYLE: There you go.

KASICH: But the way it works is you go to your town hall meetings, of which I've done, 48 or nine right now. And you stand up in front, people ask you questions. And so it gets down, it's really interesting. It's like running for Congress in a way. You have your air, you know, your commercials and then you have a ground game. And then you pitch yourself and you see what happens. And we will not know what's going to happen in New Hampshire. I don't believe until election night.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

KASICH: Because we're all so bunched together and so close. And that's where I think the ground game will work. And we're very optimistic about it.

GUILFOYLE: And town halls do matter there. Let's take a listen. You mentioned that new ad, let's roll that and we get everybody to react.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He lived a hard-scrabble of life in a rusty steel town. John Kasich never gives up. When he lost his parents to a drunk driver, he had the faith to carry on. Some say he couldn't balance the federal budget, but Kasich stunned Washington. They said he couldn't save Ohio from an $8 billion shortfall, but Kasich did. They say our best days are behind us. America never gives up -- John Kasich.

KASICH: I'm Kohn Kasich and I approved this message.


GUILFOYLE: Great message. I think you're hitting all the points there.

KASICH: Well, look. I think the thing is people think the system is bad. Rich people, special interests run the country. And some people are feeling so that -- first of all, that's -- with some politicians may be true, with me, it isn't. I mean, my whole record is an example of speaking up for those people I grew up with in that hard-scrabble town, but we can't give up. I mean, I tell everybody, it says -- this morning I spoke to the, to people who were recovering drug addicts. I spoke to college students -- don't give up, you get knocked down, get back up. Look at his story, the life story of Juan Williams. How many times have you been knocked down, OK?




BOLLING: Just today.

WILLIAMS: How about this today, all right.



KASICH: Increasingly, there are people that say, "Well, you know, I -- maybe it's all over for me." No, you can't give up.

GUTFELD: But senator is scrabble really that hard?

KASICH: Governor, not senator.

GUTFELD: Governor.

KASICH: Don't demote me now.


GUTFELD: I forget.


GUTFELD: All governors -- all the governors are doing poorly in this race. Why do you think that is? Is it a function of an angry populace or?

KASICH: Well, the last poll that came out had me one point out of second place and only, you know like eight points behind Trump, and that's before the voting starts. I do believe at the end of the day Greg, that the -- that experience matters. I mean, I think at the end of the day, people will settle down and they're going to want somebody who can land the plane. The key for me is I talk about experience only from the standpoint of giving me -- giving myself credibility to talk about what I want to do. Because you know, based on somebody's past record, what they're likely to do in the future. And I think people do want somebody to stand up for them. They want jobs. They want their kids to get work. They want the homeland protected. So when I say it, I feel as though I've got the credibility to say it based on what I've done throughout my career.

BOLLING: Governor, you said at some point people will quote, "settle down" and they want someone to land the plane, I assume that means you. If they don't settle down and they choose Donald Trump to try and land the plane, would you accept the VP nomination by Donald Trump, a nod, a tap on your shoulder to be Donald Trump's VP?

KASICH: Do you think I -- you don't know me very well, although I've been on the show and you -- do you think I would ever run for second place? I have the second-best job in the entire country.

BOLLING: I understand that, but you're Ohio and you're -- and the GOP needs to deliver Ohio and a smart presidential nominee would want to deliver Ohio and you're the best way to do it.

KASICH: How about the best way to beat Hillary Clinton is to pick me as the nominee, because I am in Ohio and because I'm very hard to label. I mean, of all -- it's always been difficult for people to put their finger on me. You know, we balance budgets. We grow the economy. We leave no one behind, whether you're mentally ill or drug addicted or the working poor, or a member of the minority community. You have a chance in Ohio. And I think it makes it very difficult for people to put -- to lay a glove on me. And with Hillary, Hillary is a measure. You know, Keystone pipeline. Well, do I make the unions mad or do I make the environmentalists mad? And Juan, I think that's her problem. Her problem is she's too political in deciding things. And I don't think that's what the country wants. And i don't think that's going to work in general election.

WILLIAMS: Well, I -- you know, I respect you. I mean, I respected you from Washington, (inaudible). I respect tremendously what you've done in Ohio. You've reached out to lots of people in Ohio who back you. I'm talking about racial minorities, people you wouldn't associate with the republican brand like John Kasich. The question is, in this time, Greg touched on this of anger, an angry electorate. Are they going to turn to someone who's seen as an establishment figure?

KASICH: Well, you know, Juan, it's kind of hard -- it has following me. You know it's pretty hard to label me as an establishment figure, because I've always fought the establishment.

WILLIAMS: That's true.

KASICH: But this may be where we are now. And here's what some people say. Well, Trump says all the things that I wish I could say and I can't. Well, let me tell you. If we're a country that is devolving into name-calling and insulting, we got bigger problems than who we're going to elect for president. So what do I think? Hope springs eternal with me. I've been in politics a long time, I've studied it for a long time and I think at the end of the day, people do settle down.

WILLIAMS: Well, say something angry.

KASICH: I'm not going to change myself, Juan. Because you know what, if I win, I want to fix the country. I'm not going to say things to get elected and then I'm there and like, OK, now what do we do? Forget it. I'm not going there.

GUILFOYLE: Spoken like the grown-up at the table.



PERINO: I was so brilliant.

GUILFOYLE: That's right, yeah, I mean.


PERINO: I was so brilliant.

GUILFOYLE: This is like going to be a deep tease, because you're going to hear from Dana Perino, she's got questions. But the governor said don't go away, he's staying with us. We're going to keep him. We're going to ask him what he thinks about Bill Clinton's debut on the campaign trial for Hillary this week. Stay tuned.


PERINO: We're back with presidential candidate and Ohio Governor John Kasich. We want to ask him about the democratic frontrunner, Hillary Clinton. Yesterday, her husband, Bill, started hitting the campaign trail for her. The mainstream media hailed it as a major moment.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, it was decisive moment for the first time this campaign on trail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton who today deployed one of her most potent political weapons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man she calls both husband and her not so secret weapon has been launched on the campaign trail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can Hillary win this one?

BILL CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Win here? Sure. But it's going to be hard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in his element.


PERINO: So we want -- do a quick thing about the Clintons. You dealt with the Clintons in the past. I mean, you were a budget chairman and other places. And what do you think about how you could beat them?

KASICH: Well, you beat Hillary, because I think she's really compartmentalized. I don't think she thinks in terms -- she doesn't have a great vision. And I think that's what -- that's why Obama beat her, I think, because it's about vision.

It's like remember I used to talk about Bush; it's the vision thing. And I don't think she has a vision. I think it's too much politically calculated.

Now, if we come out with somebody who's a divider, that can't win Ohio. If you don't win Ohio, you can't be president. It's not that complicated.

PERINO: I'm going to exercise my right to have one more question.

KASICH: Yes. Yes, good.

PERINO: I didn't in the last one. Tell me about Ohio. That is -- that's actually quite a remarkable story. Where you started as governor and where are you today. You're up, you said, 385,000 jobs?

KASICH: Well, we're up 385,000 jobs. Our wages are growing faster than the national average. Our credit is rock-solid. Our pensions are rock solid. We've cut taxes by the largest of any sitting governor, $5 billion. We're running a $2 billion surplus, and we're leaving nobody in the shadows. I mean, we're lifting everybody. It's a remarkable story. And the state has been economically diversified.

PERINO: And can that be replicated or duplicated on a national level?

KASICH: Oh, yes. Well, remember, I was chairman of the budget committee when we actually balanced the budget. We cut capital gains, and the economy was booming.

And there are people running now -- it's sort of funny. We've got guys running, for seven years we heard people say how did we ever elect a first- term senator who didn't have the experience? I think maybe we have amnesia.

And then one of my, one of the guys running, one of the governors, I mean, he -- you know, his -- his budget is structurally out of balance. He's -- his pensions are falling apart. He's been downgraded nine times. I mean, that -- you have to look at that.

WILLIAMS: You're taking a shot at Chris Christie, and you won't even call him his name?

KASICH: No. No, you're so smart, Juan, I want to you figure it out.

WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.

KASICH: What I'm saying is it is a heck of a record. But it's not a record, because, you know, frankly, I'm such a great guy. I've got a great team, and that's how you do things. You know this from your time in the White House. You have to have a great team. You have to let them be set free.

And here's the key. Look at a problem and fix it. Don't worry about politics. Don't worry about who's going to yell at you. Don't care about the rich or the powerful. Who cares? Look at a problem, fix it. Because at the end that's what your legacy is about.

GUTFELD: So I'm thinking that Hillary is a big problem solver. She's got Bill on the trail to keep him off the tail.

Is it weird...

PERINO: You don't have to answer that.

GUTFELD: Is it weird, Governor, that we have a socialist running for president and Bernie Sanders?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

KASICH: Look, I mean, what do you want me to say to that?

GUTFELD: Anything you want. OK, national security, I think it's the most important issue of the day.

KASICH: Yes. It is very important.

GUTFELD: What would be your plan, if you were president, to deal with ISIS?

KASICH: Well, look, I was -- served on the defense committee for 18 years. And when, after 9/11 I went to the Pentagon and for two or three years I was involved with bringing technologists into the Pentagon to solve some of the problems, working directly with Donald Rumsfeld.

The answer is, you have to have an air and a ground, and you have to destroy them. And it has to be a coalition very much like the first Bush had. And you've got to give the first Bush a lot of credit. Because when they pushed Saddam out of Kuwait and they started marching, people say he should have gone all the way to Baghdad. He was smart enough to get out of there and not get us in the middle of a civil war.

And it's a tragedy that the intelligence was bad on Iraq. Because without that intelligence about nuclear weapons, no way we should have gone in there. Because when the U.S. involves itself in civil wars directly, we don't win. We lose.

WILLIAMS: Can we just get nitty-gritty on politics for a second?


WILLIAMS: You're not spending a lot of time in Iowa.

KASICH: I'm spending more time there. I was just there yesterday.

WILLIAMS: Not as compared to...

KASICH: No, no.

WILLIAMS: ... Cruz and Trump and those guys.

KASICH: Because of the size, Juan. I mean, Iowa is so big, and there's only so many resources and so many hours in the day.

WILLIAMS: I thought it was about the evangelical Christian Republicans and you decided, you know, "That's not my market."

KASICH: Well, look, I'm a man of faith, so -- but I don't go out, you know, like wearing it on my sleeve.

WILLIAMS: Right, right.

KASICH: No, it wasn't for that at all. It's a matter of resources and time. I mean, I only got in in July. So you know, you should have been in...

GUILFOYLE: You have to allocate your resources.

KASICH: Right. And look, it's a lot easier when you have 1.2 million. I can stand in Manchester, throw a stone and hit most of New Hampshire. So - - but we're on the ballot now in over 30 states. We have people in South Carolina, people in Iowa, people in Nevada. This is an untold story.

And the ad I put up today is from the hard dollars of my campaign.

WILLIAMS: Goodness.

KASICH: People said, "He's going to run out of money. He's not going to do this; he's not going to do that." We're like the Little Engine that Can, and here's the key. If the ground game doesn't work, then you know, we're not going to do well in New Hampshire. If we don't do well in New Hampshire, well enough to continue, I'm not going to drag this thing on. I mean, I'm not in this to, you know, write a book or get a television show or anything else.

But I believe we're going to...

PERINO: Been there, done that.

KASICH: I believe we're going to come out of New Hampshire as a story. And if that's the case, I'm going to tell you, I will come back. Because I believe I'll be the nominee.

BOLLING: Because the money will come in?

KASICH: Money will come in, and we're organized everywhere.

BOLLING: You are one of the -- you are very likable. You're very personable; you're very relatable. People love to talk to you. Why is it not resonating with the voters right now?

KASICH: Again, the last poll before Christmas, you know, the independent poll, a sample of 600, which Dana will tell you, is -- it's a good number. It's got a lower error rate. I'm one point behind Rubio and only a few points behind Trump. We'll see where it goes.

GUILFOYLE: There's plenty of time.

KASICH: But -- and here's the thing. We're not going to know until election day. I mean, you -- these things change up there. It's so volatile. And the public, for the first time, when I was in Iowa and now in New Hampshire, you know what I've noticed? People now are starting to really listen. Up until now, there's been limited focus, in my opinion.

And look, I'm not spinning you. If I thought we were going to do well, I'd tell you. Are we going to win Iowa? Of course not. We're not going to do that. But we're going to put enough time in, hopefully, to have a decent finish. But the key is coming out of New Hampshire. But we're ready to move on if we come out of New Hampshire.

GUILFOYLE: You know whose attention you got from day one who was very worried about you and still is? Not just based on your record, but Ohio, the whole package, was the Clinton campaign.


GUILFOYLE: They're worried about running against you.

KASICH: Well, you know, what are they going to -- what are they going to use against me? I've got nothing but a record of growth, of inclusion, of lifting people. Of you know, just being a regular guy. And I think it's hard to put me in a box. And I think that might be part of my problem.

GUILFOYLE: You could get Democrats to cross over and have that Reagan appeal.

KASICH: Well, I won 86 out of 88 counties in Ohio. I had 60 percent of women vote, 26 percent of African-Americans, and 51 percent of union households. After all the issues I have with organized labor, I mean, I was endorsed by the building trades, the operating engineers, the carpenters. Nailed that one, by the way. Get it? Get it?

PERINO: All right. On that note, we're going to have to go.

KASICH: All right.

PERINO: Thank you so much for joining us.

KASICH: Thank you.

PERINO: It was really fun.

Next, will a new movie on the attack in Benghazi impact Hillary Clinton's race for the White House? We're going to show you a clip ahead.



GUTFELD: As the new movie on Benghazi comes out, remember this: On September 14, 2012, at Andrews Air Force Base, Hillary Clinton told the family members of the men killed in Benghazi that their deaths were sparked by a video. Four relatives claim she actually did say this. And Tyrone Woods' dad actually made notes after she talked to them. This is key.

Remember when just weeks ago, George Stephanopoulos asked her this:


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Did you tell them it was about the film? And what's your response?

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. You know, look, I understand the continuing grief at the loss that parents experienced with the loss of these four brave Americans. And I did testify, as you know, for 11 hours. And I answered all of these questions. Now I can't, I can't help it, that the people think there has to be something else there.


GUTFELD: Well, that does it for me. She's telling the truth and those families are liars.

I mean, who are you going to believe? Some grieving people, including one who took notes? Or some heroic woman who braved sniper fire in Bosnia? Do you trust some dead heroes' relatives or a lady who said she was dead broke after the White House? Who would you accept, the word of people with precise memories of that event, or a person who blamed a planned act of terror on a video? Who are you going to believe, weeping parents, or the person who said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary, even though he didn't get famous until she was 6 years old. That makes no sense.

And never mind that what these families said are the same things that Hillary had said openly, as well as her flacks did on other shows. See, it's not like Hillary ever lies about anything. She lies about everything. She lies the way a puppy poops: often and everywhere. And it's the press that scrub it off, on their hands and knees.

But in the end, it's just her words against theirs. As loved ones lie in state, she simply lies.

So on Megyn Kelly last night, here were some relatives responding to the accusations of -- oh, the contractors, OK, about lying about the video. Go for it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Pat Smith. I know Katie Quigley, Gwen's sister. I know -- you know, we know Ty's mom. We know what they told us was said, and I do know them very well. And Katie is -- Katie has been on the news quite a bit, telling you what she was told.

And I know that they were told it was the video, because that's what they told me. And I believe Pat. I believe Katie. I believe Ty -- Charles Woods.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, who would have a reason to lie? Why? Their loved ones just died.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have no reason to tell anything but the truth.

GUTFELD: Kimberly, this is a huge deal.

GUILFOYLE: It's a really big deal, and it should matter. I want it to matter.


GUILFOYLE: Because it tells me a lot about this country, about the voters, about American families, about the values that we hold dear. Make a choice with confidence and say someone who lies like this, lies to grieving family members. Listen to what these guys have said. They've been very consistent from day one, coming out to talk about it. A movie coming out, this special. I mean, there's even much more to this story than we're even hearing at this point.

GUTFELD: Yes. Eric.

GUILFOYLE: There's a lot of people's lives on the line.

GUTFELD: The media is going to let this slide, right?

BOLLING: Yes. They keep -- they point the finger at us, saying FOX or the right is rehashing this; she's already testified for 11 hours. Don't forget, she -- we already have emails unearthed now of her emailing...


BOLLING: ... her daughter, Chelsea, saying within 24 hours, saying, "This is terror."


BOLLING: This is a terror attack. And then, as you know, a couple of days later, two days after the email. Two days after the email, three days after the attack, she says at Andrews, says -- mentions the video. I mean, that's all you -- there's your smoking gun.

I don't know why this is up for any other discussion. She blatantly lied about it. And we need to keep harping on this, because it matters.

GUTFELD: What else -- and what else could she lie about, Dana? If you lie about this, why can't you just admit you made -- if she admits she made a mistake she's a better person.

PERINO: The other thing is that she does this thing where she tries to absolve herself from any responsibility by saying how long she testified. So the book -- the movie is called "13 Hours," which is based on the best- selling book by the same name. Thirteen hours, it was a lot harder to do what they did for 13 hours, than it was for her to answer questions for 11 hours.

GUTFELD: Great point.

PERINO: Answering 11 hours' worth of question doesn't mean that you've absolved yourself, if there are still these contradictions.

GUTFELD: That is an excellent point.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUTFELD: Juan, you know, she's the type of person who would day an orphan's candy, eat it in front of the orphan, and then blame it on a video.

WILLIAMS: And blame it on the video? That's...


PERINO: And then have the guy arrested.

GUTFELD: And then have the guy arrested.

WILLIAMS: Look, this, to me, Kimberly says she wants to believe this. You guys want this to be important. I think for most Americans it's like, what are you talking about?

PERINO: I think there are some Democrats.

WILLIAMS: She's testified. This thing has been over. It's over.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. No, no, no. She testi-lies. She testi-lies.

WILLIAMS: Whatever. But I'm just saying, this has been gone over and over. People have said, you know, did she say this? Did she not? I mean, at this point...


GUILFOYLE: ... the lies.

WILLIAMS: I know what difference it makes, because Kimberly and you guys want to believe this.

GUTFELD: All right. OK.

PERINO: We're just looking at... GUILFOYLE: It should matter. Lies should matter. I mean, why -- lying, is that part of the job qualification for secretary of state? Does she think that's a resume builder for commander-in-chief? I don't think so.

GUTFELD: Well, apparently she does, and we've got to move. Ahead a group that's trying to get people to cut back on their alcohol intake -- oooh -- has issued a month-long no drinking challenge. Could we do it? Next.



WILLIAMS: It's the new year and a time when a lot of folks regroup to kick certain vices. Like smoking, overeating or -- perhaps drinking too much? Do you think you could give up having a glass of wine or a cocktail for an entire month? A group called Alcohol Concern is encouraging people to sign up for their no-drinking challenge. And they've dubbed it Dry January.

So before this moment, before this segment I said at the table who's the heaviest drinker at the table? And there was a contest...

PERINO: That's commercial break talk.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And so there was a contest -- I'm breaking the rules here. So there was a contest. And the contest was between my two male colleagues. And so I say Dr. Gutfeld and Dr. Bolling, why don't you two settle this? Who is the heaviest drinker between the two of you?

BOLLING: Is that what the segment is?

PERINO: I wasn't prepared for that.

WILLIAMS: I want to establish this.

PERINO: I wasn't prepared for that.

WILLIAMS: I want to establish this so I can ask the question.

BOLLING: I'll pull a Juan Williams on this. So I think I could possibly not drink for a full month of the month of January, but why would I? I don't want to not drink for the month of January. I enjoy a cocktail or two or three.

WILLIAMS: But you could prove -- you could prove that you could do it.

PERINO: No. He has amazing willpower. He hasn't eaten on Tuesdays for years.


GUILFOYLE: No. He's totally manorexic now. He doesn't eat.

BOLLING: I haven't -- I haven't eaten meat in 24 years. So I could do that.

PERINO: He's got will power.

BOLLING: But I could go -- that's the one thing I don't want to do.


GUTFELD: If you can find a cure for boredom, stress, anxiety, crankiness, I'll stop drinking. I am so neurotic -- and I'm not kidding -- that I bought a book on parallel universes, and I worry about myself in those other universes. I'm wondering, like, is Greg Gutfeld in a car accident in this other universe? Is Greg Gutfeld going to be fired in this universe?

GUILFOYLE: Probably.

GUTFELD: I have so much anxiety I can't even keep it in our universe. Drink away, America.

WILLIAMS: Drink away. Well, what do you say, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Keep it up, little peanut pinot noir.

GUTFELD: Better than to call me something else.

WILLIAMS: Hey, hey, hey. Slow down, slow down.

GUILFOYLE: I'll tell you, I'm going to out the whole table. Ready? OK. No. 1 is seven vodkas is Bolling. No. 2 drinker is pinot noir there. Three, Dana. K.G. I don't know where you fall. I don't know where you fall in. Are you...

WILLIAMS: I don't fall in, I fall down. If I have too much to drink, I fall down.

GUILFOYLE: He has some other, you know, vices. Dana is like, packs quite a punch. She's like...

WILLIAMS: Dana quacks a punch?

GUILFOYLE: Packs. Packs, because she's tiny.

PERINO: Are we talking -- if it's relative to our size, do I drink the most?

WILLIAMS: That's a good question.

GUTFELD: I thought you downed that bottle of Everclear in the bathroom before the show.

WILLIAMS: Everclear. Anyway...


BOLLING: Don't leave your own drinking out of the equation.

GUILFOYLE: No, no. I was putting myself maybe just right before Juan.

WILLIAMS: All right. Well, there's no evidence, by the way, that this works, it does anything. But the lady who wrote it said it cleared up her face, her complexion. Anyway, "One More Thing," coming up next.

GUILFOYLE: Skin looks pretty good from here.


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." Got to go fast. Juan, you're first.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's the end of an era. The 15th and final season of "American Idol" premieres Wednesday night. Keith Urban, Jennifer Lopez, Harry Connick are returning along with Ryan Seacrest, the shows made stars of Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood and everybody watched. This was mainstream America. This was the time, this was one show everybody -- my wife, Delice, the kids, friends would come over. They loved it.

Here's Jennifer Lopez on "The Today Show" this morning.

GUILFOYLE: This is why, because you like J. Lo.


JENNIFER LOPEZ, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": I had a moment where I really realized, like, wow, this is it. This is over. It's been a big part of my life. And a very special part of my life.


WILLIAMS: We're going to miss that show.

BOLLING: All right, Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: She owes me money.

WILLIAMS: She owes you money?

GUTFELD: A lot of money. We'll talk, J. Lo. You know what I'm talking about. Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: You should pay her.


GUTFELD: Greg's Math Question of the Day.


GUTFELD: People love math, but they forget about it after school. So here's the question for everybody here. What is the percentage of odd numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, among natural numbers? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8? What is the percentage of odd numbers among natural numbers?


GUTFELD: Fifty percent?

BOLLING: Zero? Is zero a natural number?

PERINO: I already know the answer.

GUILFOYLE: You're reading off the...

GUTFELD: I thought 50 percent. But they're exactly the same amount as odd numbers as there are natural numbers, because they go to infinity.


PERINO: Coming from the book.

BOLLING: I think that's incorrect.

GUTFELD: That's true.

BOLLING: You can't push back on that.

GUILFOYLE: I think you should go back to "I Hate Those People." It's more natural to you.

GUTFELD: Viewers at home know what I'm talking about.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: So this is how you know the world is going to H-E double hockey sticks in a handbasket.

GUTFELD: Did you just say that?

PERINO: I did, because -- you already know that celebrities like Kim Kardashian and Adam Levine, they have their own fragrances, right, that you can go in the store and you can buy them.

GUTFELD: It's called Stink.

PERINO: But in Russia, you can now buy a fragrance inspired by Russian President Vladimir Putin. That's right. It is called Leaders. What was it called, Leaders No. 1.

GUTFELD: It's called Pew-tin.

PERINO: It is not an aggressive scent. It's attractive, matter of fact and natural. So I mean, if things aren't going well for you on the campaign trail, folks, you might want to give this a shot.

BOLLING: You know what it smells like? It smells like sweat.

Kimmy G.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I love the smell of this. Can you smell this through the TV? It's the smell of delicious bacon. I'm about to eat it all. You know who else loves bacon? This little one. Take a look. This is a viral video going around: 19-month-old Easton Beach may love bacon as much as me. Take a look.




GUILFOYLE: I hear you. I feel you! Once you take a bite, once you eat bacon, you can't go back.

BOLLING: I'm going to forgo my time, K.G., and I'm going to snatch at that for everyone who wants to check out the bacon behind the scenes.

That's it for us. "Special Report" on deck. Four, three, two, one...

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