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The Five

'The Five' tackle White House's handling of current threat of ISIS

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 9, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, HOST: This is a Fox News alert. Protests have erupted in Chicago today over last year's fatal police shooting of a black teen. Demonstrators are now demanding Mayor Rahm Emanuel step down. We'll have a live report from Chicago, a little later this hour. I'm Greg Gutfeld. We're here today with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Dana Perino. This is The Five.

So Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, told Congressman Michael McCaul that ISIS is now using the refugee stream to come here. Which is odd, since the White House dismissed such claims, but what else is new?

The White House is now no different than the neighbor who is suspected terror but didn't report it out of fear of looking racist. Since the DOJ thinks name-calling is worse than terror, can you blame them?

Pair that with our secretary of stone, John Kerry, a man whose stiff face makes the Burger King mascot seem relaxed, tweeting pictures of him and some actor in Paris just days -- days -- after a terror attack. I call him a tool, but that's wrong because tools are useful.

Add a media and celebrity cesspool cheering gun confiscation and you've got a raging case of terror denial. So why the need to shift attention from terror to all of that?

The war on terror becomes an immigration or gun debate, because within those realms we are the ones at fault. It's the escape hatch from casting moral judgment on our enemies, because if it's about them and not us, then all that academic brainwash was a waste.

But we don't have to talk about terrorists any more. We can just kill them. Good PR fuels recruitment, inflating prowess without proof of battle. So it's time to shut up and shoot. One humiliating defeat for ISIS and the bandwagon loses bandwidth.

After all, the road to Armageddon is paved with political correctness, and the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. I think Trump said that.

So Kimberly, I have a theory. We haven't seen any evidence of ISIS fierce battle. We only see their brutality afterwards. Isn't -- if we were able to show a humiliating defeat that would help ruin their recruitment efforts?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well sure, because right now they're the varsity team, right? And everybody wants to play for them. And the problem is you have an administration that is being, you know flat-out duplicitous in terms of the information and misinformation they're putting out. They try to deny and what McCaul told us, but now we're seeing evidence with Clapper, that in fact it is true and it's a real security threat with respect to the Syrian refugee stream coming in. This is -- that ISIS told us this, they should being a little bit cooperative, even what they tell us. And they back up by factual evidence that actually occurs we still are ISIS deniers. That's the problem with this administration. Yes, all in on climate, thumbs down on ISIS, they're not going to do it to table the issue.

GUTFELD: Eric, let me -- I want to play this sound on tape from Hannity last night, this is Michael McCaul talking about Obama's weakness on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TEXAS, HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIR: I think he's playing Russian roulette with national security. And the fact is, you know when, when you have, you have the FBI director who testified for my committee, the secretary of Homeland Security talk about the lack of a vetting process. First and foremost, we have to protect the safety of Americans, we're a humanitarian nation. But let's get this thing right before we start bringing in tens of thousands of Syrians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: What do you think?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yes. So he's talking about the refugee, the refugee program which President Obama has said 10,000. But in the past, prior to this recent round of dust-up, he said hundreds of thousands. He's literally said that. There's -- I believe it's about six months ago where he said, likely be hundreds of thousands of refugees coming from this and we were going to take them. Here's what they say versus here's what's really going on. They say ISIS is contained, strategy will degrade and destroy ISIS and the refugees are safe. But what's really happening, the secretary of defense today said ISIS is not contained. The CIA, former CIA deputy director said, Obama didn't bomb the oil fields because of environmental reasons, and that would kind of play in with what Kimberly said, and terrorists now come to American shores. So that disconnect between what they're saying and what is really happening is vast. But don't forget, he is a Nobel Peace Prize winner and he promised as much in Cairo, in June of 2009.

GUTFELD: It is.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, the problem is, he's going to bring peace through the existence of a caliphate in the Middle East -- nice.

GUTFELD: All right. You brought up Ash Carter, Dana. Let's roll what he had to say, and then maybe you can comment on it.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: OK.

GUTFELD: In your orange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: Mr. Secretary, do you agree with General Dunford?

ASH CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I agree with what General Dunford said, yes.

MCCAIN: So if we have not contained ISIL, how are we to know, believe that we are succeeding against ISIL?

CARTER: I think that we are building momentum against ISIL. I'm going to be very careful about describing the -- I've described the trajectory of that success all around Iraq and Syria. Some actions we're taking in Libya.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Dana, this is what I find to be the problem is that I'm not the least bit inspired by the stuff that's coming out of D.C. And you see, what the propaganda effort succeeds on the other side who aren't actually fighting, they're just brutalizing people.

PERINO: I was trying to imagine if he was reluctant to say more because he knows more? And that he doesn't want to -- you know show his hand in a public session like that, but actually then in hearing it again and watching it, I don't think that's the case. And what they have to deal with is, so President Obama said that ISIS is contained, just hours before the Paris attack. The administration then, tried to explain, no, the White House was talking about geographic area of Iraq, Syria and now in Libya, as it's growing. But it regardless of their geographic territory, we know that they are able to plot and plan from a safe haven and they can do things like inspire through online sources. We're going to get to that in a little bit later in the show. I also think on this one, just remember, President Obama now said 10,000 refugees, and your heart can break for the little boy's family that washed up on the shores of Turkey, but also remember this. The administration knew that this was going to be a problem. The United Nations, U.S. and Europe, Europe now facing about a million refugees. Talk about playing Russian roulette.

GUILFOYLE: They were warned.

PERINO: And the point about attacking ISIS and showing them to be vulnerable. Remember what bin Laden said, that -- that his type of fighters want to back a strong horse. So we are now 18 months or so into this campaign to degrade and destroy ISIS, and he's talking about we are starting to gain some momentum, we're building momentum against ISIS, which is not good enough.

GUTFELD: Juan, earlier before the show started, you said we should just kill them all. Which I was shocked that you say that.

(LAUGHTER)

JUAN WILLIAMS, THE FIVE SHOW CO-HOST: I would be shocked, too.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes.

WILLIAMS: You know if that would work.

GUILFOYLE: It won't.

WILLIAMS: I would say go for it, you know. But I'm -- I don't think that would work. I think you -- when you're battling an ideology and the ideology is spreading especially over social media, you've got to be smarter than that. You've got to figure exactly how we can stop them and stop their recruiting efforts, which is what concerns me greatly about Donald Trump, because I think he's feeding in to their anti -- that the U.S. and the western world is just anti-Muslim. Not true, but that's what's being fed. You know, to my mind, when we get locked into this conversation about contained, not contain, I think we're going down, you know, the rat's hole. I don't think there's any purpose to that conversation. The president clearly was talking about territory. Today at the White House, Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary said, "When it comes to containment, there's no question. Twenty-five percent of territory previously occupied what, by ISIS is now reclaimed by western forces. So, but the idea of contained, how can you say contained when you have something like Paris or San Bernardino, you can't say that and feel good about it. Obviously, ISIS is hurting people.

GUTFELD: Yeah, are the.

PERINO: Also the expansion into Libya is quite serious.

WILLIAMS: That's a different issue, though.

PERINO: That is a spreading like.

GUILFOYLE: It's alarming.

PERINO: Metaphor.

BOLLING: Why do we have to be.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Black mold.

BOLLING: Why do we have to be careful? I mean, Ash Carter has been as aggressive as anyone has been in the whole administration. And he himself said we have to be careful how I -- I have to be careful how I word this. I'm driving into work today and I'm thinking, and it was on the heels of a lot of people beating up Trump -- we're going to get to that later, but -- but everyone is worried about taking off certain groups, taking off Muslims, taking off ISIS. Why are we worried?

GUILFOYLE: No. Taking off Barack Obama.

BOLLING: No, no.

GUILFOYLE: And Valerie Jarrett, because you have to be on messaging.

BOLLING: No, because they're worried to Barack Obama's messages -- we don't want to take-off the groups and populations and.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: And the armies of people. Why are we worrying about it?

WILLIAMS: I'll tell you why.

BOLLING: Even if we take them off.

PERINO: I took that to mean something different.

BOLLING: They're not gonna hate us anymore than they already do.

PERINO: I took that to be a little bit different. Because he said, "I want to be careful about describing the trajectory of that success." I think it's one of two things. One, he -- was either has classified information that he didn't want to provide in open setting or he is trying to be cautious because he knows that the trajectory is not good. And therefore, he doesn't want to overpromise to the American people that we are doing better than we actually are.

GUILFOYLE: Can I say it's probably.

WILLIAMS: Or he can, or he.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's probably both. I thought about that very carefully. And I -- both are suggested in the tone and the deliberation in which he spoke, that perhaps he's -- yes, information -- I hope he does, about doing something.

PERINO: Yup.

GUILFOYLE: And he also doesn't want to give anything up. He wants to under- promise, then over-deliver. Otherwise, it becomes problematic for the administration and then you get a babysitter.

BOLLING: Do you know what.

GUILFOYLE: Like Comey did.

BOLLING: Do you know what.

GUILFOYLE: Right, with (inaudible) next to him.

BOLLING: Every single night on ESPN, you put on the TV, you know and see -- you see the highlights. You don't say, I don't want to make sure - I don't want Dallas to look too good because that might tick-off the Bears fans. You show the highlights. You show your wins. And Greg, I don't if you're saying that, I thought you were saying it, why don't we show our wins?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think you say.

BOLLING: Why don't we show the world.

WILLIAMS: And respond.

BOLLING: And anyone who is thinking about going to ISIS, that -- maybe that's not the group you want to join up with.

WILLIAMS: Let me, let me say something.

PERINO: Don't have anything to show.

GUILFOYLE: No. We got maybe some stuff from blowing up jihadi zone (ph).

WILLIAMS: If you show them committing acts of terror and horror that they committed, I -- it means, unbelievable.

BOLLING: Our wins, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, that's not.

BOLLING: Our wins.

WILLIAMS: That's not a win for them.

GUTFELD: Yeah. But you know, Juan, Juan, Juan.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That is the recruiting tool.

WILLIAMS: You have to be a (inaudible) person.

GUTFELD: Juan, that's the recruitment tool. It is to help them.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Show them.

WILLIAMS: I don't think that.

BOLLING: Show the world.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I don't know. I'm not.

GUTFELD: The experts say that the recruitment is for -- is created by those acts of barbarism, because they take that as an achievement. Without -- they've never seen proof of battle. They're not seeing battle but they're seeing people being executed. And they use that propaganda into scaring their future targets.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, that's sick. You know, and I said.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I would agree with you.

WILLIAMS: So what you're getting then is that we're attracting alienated sick, crazy people, but let me just say.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: In response to what you were saying earlier, that I think that American strategies, American intelligence and American successes, we know what we're doing. The question is do we want to tell them what we're doing? And I don't think that makes any sense.

BOLLING: No, no, I mean.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I think we said no ground troops.

GUILFOYLE: Some they just woke up, Juan..

BOLLING: Outlining where we're going.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: No, wait. Hold on. There was battle -- hold on.

WILLIAMS: Wait Eric, you want to boast about American this and American that, but you know what, that's not how you win this fight.

BOLLING: No, no, I want the show.

GUILFOYLE: That's not what he said.

BOLLING: When we took out 10,000 fighters once, about four, five months ago, we said we -- and we found out about it a month after it happened, the administration said no, we didn't want to show that because that would tick them off.

WILLIAMS: There you go.

BOLLING: Well, I have a different idea.

PERINO: I agree.

BOLLING: How about we show the win. How about we show the fact that we're taking that town, Ramadi.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.

BOLLING: We will level -- we will make Ramadi a parking lot.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Of course. And guess what?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Or in New Jersey, thinking about taking up arms with ISIS said, well, that's probably not the team I want to be on.

WILLIAMS: Well, here's another way of thinking about it. Who was it today? One of the famous directors said, you know what.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Maybe we shouldn't even be talking about them so much. We are giving lots of publicity. We're saying, oh yeah, they're big, they're dangerous, they're scary -- that helps their recruitment.

GUTFELD: That's OK. That's a fair point, but the thing is, we also have to deliver, we have to go in there and deliver. And it's going to mean ground troops, because we have to go in there. And we don't lose, these guys, they pick their battles by percentage. If they think they're going to lose, they retreat. That's what roving hordes do.

WILLIAMS: They will lose.

GUTFELD: Yes. They will lose, because they don't fight.

WILLIAMS: They're not gonna defeat our guys?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: To be allowed to fight. That's the thing.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And the other one.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Juan's like, don't let them fight. Put their arms behind their back.

WILLIAMS: NO, I think.

GUILFOYLE: Don't show any like wins against ISIS.

WILLIAMS: Hey, look. You know what they say, don't get into fights unless you know you're going to win. So don't fight to.

GUTFELD: That's what ISIS is doing.

WILLIAMS: Don't fight based on emotion and boasting.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, you don't think the U.S. can win and our troops are not capable of crushing them?

WILLIAMS: I just said, definitely.

PERINO: Then let's do it.

WILLIAMS: But we don't have to boast about it.

PERINO: What are we waiting for?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, God.

GUTFELD: Yeah, all right. Coming up, the San Bernardino killers met online. But did a terror group arrange their connection? The FBI director's answer to that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: We want to get an update now in the investigation into the San Bernardino terror attack. Today, the director of the FBI was on the Hill testifying about the killer's road to radicalization, and also about how they became a couple. A very interesting question was posed to him, and on that, and chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge -- sorry, I thought that she was there. She's going to join us now with more, Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you, Dana. As Fox first reported this morning, Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik were radicalized by the time this photo was as they entered the United States in Chicago on July 27, 2014. And testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, FBI Director James Comey went further today, saying they talked about jihad and martyrdom before they got engaged, leading a senior republican to question whether ISIS or al-Qaeda played match-maker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSEY GRAHAM, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Is there any evidence that this marriage was arranged by a terrorist organization or terrorist operative, or was it just a meeting on the internet?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I don't know the answer to that yet?

GRAHAM: Do you agree with me, that if it was arranged by a terrorist operative of an organization, that is a game-changer?

COMEY: It would be a very, very important thing to know. That's why we're working so hard.

GRAHAM: Well that's.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: So in Capitol Hill, new scrutiny of the K-1 fiance visa program, including a fake address in Pakistan on Malik's application. And whether Malik had an interview by a State Department officer, which is required under the regulations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMEY: I don't know well enough to say at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

COMEY: I know the process requires it. We're still trying to fully understand exactly all her contacts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HERRIDGE: Comey's testimony leaves no doubt that the visa screening process, including two rounds of criminal and national security background checks, failed to detect Malik's radicalization. And though Farook had contact with terrorism suspects, the FBI was already looking at. It was still not enough to warrant an independent FBI investigation of the 28- year-old. Dana?

PERINO: All right. Thanks, Catherine.

HERRIDGE: Thank you.

PERINO: In the wake of last week's attack, some lawmakers in the Senate have revived controversial legislation to require social media companies to report any activity that could be terror-related. ISIS and other groups are increasingly using online networks and Twitter and Facebook to recruit and communicate. The bill is likely to meet some resistance from privacy hawks in the Senate. I think that's going to be a fight worth having. Just want to go to you, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: I got some information today from the counter extremism project, and I think it was very eye-opening. First of all, the number of people killed by ISIS, since October 10th, which was a Paris attack, in six different countries, 525 people.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

PERINO: One of the things that the counter extremism project has done is looked at the profiles of about 90,000 of these fighters. One of the things they have in common? They're all on social media. And Twitter, in particular is where you have these gruesome pictures and murders that we're talking about in the first block, about how that becomes a recruiting tool.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: And the FBI and other law enforcement and the Intel communities are asking please, Silicon Valley, Twitter and others, please help us. And this bill aims to do that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, great. And I'm glad they're being proactive about it because this is really an additional area that we need to strike at to effectively combat this ideology and to really, you know, debilitate them in terms of their ability to recruit young people who are you know, easily influenced and can be easily radicalized. The problem is, even when you have Twitter and Facebook cooperating and taking one of these sites down, 20 minutes later, another site is up. They are very proficient at having their social media footprints out there. And every time we take one down, they put too up. That's the kind of pattern and practice that I've been studying to see how this is working. And they have so many active sites, like 600 different accounts tweeting and putting out information.

PERINO: Eric, the Obama administration had a big study group when they were looking into the possible calling for legislation-require companies that would deal with this encryption issue. And if you look at the president speech on Sunday night, one of the things that he did was to say, they're not calling for the legislation. They're asking, please, would you maybe help cooperate with us, Silicon Valley, and I don't think they're going to get that cooperation to (inaudible).

BOLLING: Facebook and Twitter both said they're working directly. Snapchat said basically there's not a lot of that going on Snapchat. They say it's more social and more fun. Eventually, these people will figure out which one is the one. And it will always go to the encrypted one. The ones that are encrypted so that, it doesn't matter if the FBI gets the data, it doesn't matter who gets it. They can't break the data, it's so heavily encrypted. Can I talk about the visa stuff very quickly? Regular visas take about 30 days to get a visa, right? There are 34 countries who have a visa waiver program that takes about 24 to 30 hours, instead of 30 days. And two of the countries that are included in that are France and Belgium. Two countries that we know are hotbeds right now of terror activity. And then the K-1 fiance visas that Catherine Herridge spoke about just a minute ago, thousands are coming over here on those visas. Not a bad time to take a look at all the visa programs and tighten up all the loose ends of the complete visa program.

PERINO: Well, and last night on the Hill and the House side, there was a vote, 407 to 8, or something like that passed.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Only by partisan.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So if want to comment on social media or the.

GUTFELD: Yes. Social networks are no different than any other kind of product. People may think it's different because it's a communication product, but Silicon Valley should be way ahead of this. And be thinking about this, it's no different than like a food product at a supermarket that realizes that the packaging has been tampered. And you notify the authorities if somebody has taken the Tylenol out and put something else in. That is the same thing as if you discovered that there is something going on, on your network. And we're in danger of portraying cooperation with your government as narking or being a snitch. When in fact, what you're doing is you're protecting the freedom to do your job. Home Depot has a trip wire. All of these places have trip wires when they see, and there's no reason why social networks should have trip wires. It's not narking. It is not betraying people's privacy, you actually preserving your freedom.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't think there's any question about that, but -- so last night I saw Tim Cook who, you know, the head of Apple.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Give a talk. And one of the things he talked about is protecting your privacy, Americans.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: And Ted Cruz is right now, in a political battle with Senator Marco Rubio.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: Rubio -- about the idea that Rubio says, "Why did you approve the Freedom Act and undo the Patriot Act?" Well, under the Freedom Act, the government has to request information on phone calls, rather than just instantly amass it and can explore it themselves. Nobody argues about the idea that you go after the terrorist networks, and when you see terrorist activity online, the question is what about American civil liberties? What about, you know.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And Eric sent one a nasty note because he was mad at him. Is that their business? Probably not.

GUTFELD: And no one is saying it is.

PERINO: It's like nobody -- why would they waste their time?

WILLIAMS: Well, they -- the question is, if they have access to everything and they want to find out, hey, what about that Dana Perino? As they did, remember that, you know, when the secret service got mad at one of the congressmen, you know all of a sudden, all of these old notes start piling up. You got to be careful about government intrusion.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We have a bigger problem, though. We have this encryption situation, it doesn't matter. You can, you can even get, let the NSA have access to all this stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: It's device to device.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the problem. They have all of this information that she was spending so many hours writing someone in Arabic, which wasn't the language that they spoke, but it's encrypted and they're trying to gain access to it, you know. And by the way, I do think it's obviously somebody set them up that she was radicalized in Pakistan, in connections to the red mosque, and then somebody put those two together. And you find that out, you're gonna have access to a bigger terror network.

WILLIAMS: It could be Tinder.

PERINO: All right, we got to run. Ahead on the.

GUTFELD: They had it online.

WILLIAMS: It could be.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Jihadi.com.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Sounds like for that. All right, ahead. Protests have broken out in Chicago after Mayor Rahm Emanuel publicly apologized for the fatal police shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald, a live report coming up in moments.

Plus, Donald Trump isn't backing down, despite harsh push-back from critics. He is standing by and to keep Muslims from other countries out of America. You'll hear from him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: He's been called everything under the sun for his proposal to keep foreign Muslims out of America. But Donald Trump insists, it's for the safety of our country and not because he's a bigot or a racist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Somebody in this country has to say what's right. I have great respect and love. I have people that I have tremendous relationships with. They're Muslim. And Barbara, they agree with me 100 percent.

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Are you a bigot?

TRUMP: Not at all. Probably, the least of anybody you've ever met.

WALTERS: Because?

TRUMP: Because I'm not. I'm person that has common sense. I'm a smart person. I know how to run things. I know how to make America great again. This is about making America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Tom Brokaw is one of many critics who strongly disagreed this would be good for America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BROKAW, NBC NEWS: Trump's statement, even in this season of extremes, is a dangerous proposal that overrides history, the law and the foundation of America itself.

(voice-over): During World War II, law-abiding Japanese American citizens were herded into remote internment camps. African-Americans, whose ancestors who came here as slaves, were treated as second- or even third- class citizens, in uniform and out.

(on camera): Yes the jihadists are radical Muslims. But they're a minority in a world with a billion and a half Muslims. Even so, defeating ISIS will be long, hard, and expensive. Perhaps even more so now, because ISIS is likely to use Donald Trump's statements as a recruiting tool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Well, pretty strong editorial statement for him to go on the record and say something like that. Let's take it around the table --  Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Brokaw has a lot of credibility, especially with the greatest generation, you know, Americans who fought in World War II.  He's done the book. He knows that experience.

And here he is, saying looking back over that history -- in World War II, with the Japanese, with the Nazis, coming out of it. He mentions Senator Joe McCarthy and the kind of, you know, internal bitterness and finger- pointing that can take place here. I know Greg is going to get upset. But the fear-mongering that can occur.

He said, you know, we can't have that. That does not lead to clear thinking. It will not defeat ISIS, and it will defeat American principles.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Bolling.

BOLLING: Again, what are we afraid -- ISIS hates us. They're not going to hate us any more, because Donald Trump says don't let Muslims come into America. They already hate us for everything else we stand for, not just Donald Trump's comments.

Brokaw mentioned FDR, Democrat as far as I remember. Right? Am I right?  Did Carter also do the same thing during the Iran hostage crisis? Didn't he also cut off all Iranians from coming into America during that, as well?  I believe that happened. I read it; I could be wrong. But I read it.

So what? All right. Look, again, we really need to stop worrying about how they feel about us. They hate us. Everything is an ISIS recruiting tool. Guess what? This iPhone is an ISIS recruiting tool. Let's get over it.

I like the tough talk. You know what? I'm tired of Obama's soft talk. I like the tough talk.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana.

PERINO: Well, I'm not exactly sure what I'm replying -- what I'm responding to. Like if it's -- I'm not for religious tests. I am for common sense. And I think that Brokaw's point about 1.6 billion, with a "B," Muslims in the world. We're not going to be able to keep all of them out forever.

And the other thing is, when you have a big, broad statement like that, yes, you're going to get pushback for it. You're going to get the questions like that. And then they try to back-fill on their response.

I mean, does this include the people he does business with all over the world in the Arab world? Are they not going to be allowed to come in and do business? And then he might say, "Well, no, not business."

So by not being clear, then he causes, I think, more problems for himself.

But I do think that there are people who would say, "Well, yes, let's not let any of them in."

My bigger concern is that Syed Farook was born in America. Like, where we should be spending our time is try to figure out what did our intel officers and police need to help prevent attacks that are actually being home-grown right here?

WILLIAMS: You know what? That's so scary to me. I know, no one interrupt, but that is so scary. The self-radicalization is what absolutely scares me.

BOLLING: Some people -- you're tapping me, but some people think that she, the wife, was the one who radicalized...

WILLIAMS: No, no. They said they're not sure about that any more.

GUILFOYLE: But the evidence now suggesting that they were both radicalized and perhaps put together purposefully as a team.

BOLLING: Could be.

GUILFOYLE: Jihad team, husband and wife. And then they had a jihad baby.  A little troubling. So...

GUTFELD: A jaby.

GUILFOYLE: He planned an earlier terror attack, two years, in 2011. So that was before they met.

You can't call Donald Trump a racist. Because a religion is a set of ideas. It is actually not a race. You can call him a lot of things, but you can't call him a racist.

The difference between Iran was that that was a measure against a state; and Trump is pushing a measure against a people, a billion people. That's the difference.

The thing is the most -- the problem with Trump is that what happens is there are some very sound ideas that we all talk about, about how to make America safer, as safe as possible. But what happens is he gives ammo to critics to paint all of our efforts as implausible and not deep and exaggerated and sensational.

And who gets off scot-free after the Obama speech? President Obama. But even more so, Hillary, who skated right by. You can hear her mad, crazy laughter. Because every four days, Donald Trump says something that is close to what we believe in, but inflammatory. And therefore, smearing everything that we believe in. He really is like your uncle. He's like your uncle who believes in the forwarded e-mails, because he forwards them.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. The bottom line is I don't think President Obama is getting a pass on any of this from anybody. He should be held accountable.

GUTFELD: You know what I mean.

GUILFOYLE: I hear what you're saying, but taking the wind out of the room or changing the focus or redirecting.

PERINO: It would have been nice if Tom Brokaw would do a whole editorial about how the administration has failed. I mean, that would have been interesting. But -- instead...

BOLLING: Do you think that was coming? Even if Donald Trump didn't make those comments?

PERINO: That's my point. It's very unusual for Tom Brokaw to come on and do a long editorial like that. There's a reason that he did it, and I think that for NBC, that was effective.

GUTFELD: The other thing, too, is you're witnessing a unified media. A group that is really drooling over this story, who ignored the Planned Parenthood videos. So you're giving them, essentially, ammo. And in the same respect, destroying the Republican Party.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, the bottom line is we need to do something different. We've been saying that at this table. We need to review our visa programs, why are we having 25 percent of the people coming into this country on K-1 visas, the fiance visas, that are seriously, "I looked at you. We met. We had a moment in our eyes in person. Let's do this."

BOLLING: Are you looking at Greg?

GUILFOYLE: He was looking at me.

I think everybody at the table felt it.

BOLLING: Now we...

PERINO: Don't ruin our moment.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: I'm going to cry.

GUILFOYLE: I think they're all in. Each (ph) of them.

All right. Next, calls are growing for Mayor Rahm Emanuel to step down.  He is under fire for his handling of police shootings in his city.  Protests have erupted today. A live report coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: This is a FOX news alert. Tensions are high on the streets of Chicago hours after Mayor Rahm Emanuel apologized for his administration's handling of last year's fatal police shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO: I wasn't on the scene, obviously, but I am the mayor. I was apologizing for what happened on my watch. I take responsibility, not only for that. But to also fix it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Hundreds of protesters are out demanding the mayor resign. We're going to go right now to FOX's Mike Tobin, who is there live.

Mike, set the scene for us. I see the crowd growing. Darkness is coming; crowd seems to be growing. What are they after?

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't know that the crowd is growing. We've watched the crowd kind of grow and shrink throughout the day. The one thing that Chicago police have been doing, if these guys want to march, they let them march and walk it off. And sometimes the people get tired and they fall away. We've seen the crowd shrink in the last hour or so.

And they're marching right now. What's interesting is they've taken it out of the troubled areas. They're marching now through a part of town known as the Gold Coast. The Pump Room is in this part of town. The Christmas lights are up in front of the nice Brownstones, so they're taking the demonstrations in front of what they say are the rich people out here to get their attention.

They gathered for a while in front of the cardinal's house, and had their demonstration, demonstrating very clearly that they're not happy. They're not satisfied by the apology of the mayor. They want his resignation and they want the resignation of the state's attorney, Anita Alvarez.

BOLLING: We're going to take it around, but quick question. The Chicago Police Department, what's their reaction to the mayor basically throwing them under the bus, saying there's a progress going on here?

TOBIN: By and large, the cops that I've been dealing with out here are the people who are providing security out here in the street. And they seem to be pretty easy going, and intentionally so. They don't want to have conflicts with the demonstrators out here.

Sometimes they form a line. You get some pushing and shoving until they release that line. But the guys out here, I think, are very intentional as far as presenting a relaxed demeanor.

BOLLING: Got you, Mike. Thank you very much. You'll stay on top of it all night. Thanks, Mike Tobin.

All right, guys. Bring it around. K.G., your thoughts on this? It's evolving; it's getting bigger.

GUILFOYLE: It's very interesting, isn't it? Because it seems that President Barack Obama hasn't been able to protect his old buddy and ally and cohort with Rahm Emanuel. Because they're calling for him to resign.  Which by the way, who hid the video? Who kept it concealed? For a year?  Because it would be politically disastrous if it was released. I mean, that's the mayor's call.

So if you're going to be mad at somebody, and he took out, you know, the police superintendent, who was the sacrificial victim in this. But the police department, there -- this guy works and was appointed by the mayor.  What are you going to do about that?

BOLLING: This looks and sounds a lot like what went on a year, a year and a half ago here in New York City, when de Blasio threw the police under the bus with the Eric Garner situation.

WILLIAMS: I think it's a little different. I think that obviously, here there was politics involved. And I think that's the heart of the allegation, is that the mayor hid the video at a time when he was up for re-election, and it could have cost him the re-election.

So I'm thinking to myself what's the benefit of having the mayor thrown out? Who comes in that you think is going to be so different? In fact, it was the prosecutor who cooperated in this and then had to be forced by a judge to release the video.

But you know what's striking to me, is there's no group here. It's not like you can say that's Black Lives Matter, or Jesse Jackson. There's no leadership. It's just like kind of, you know, the dispossessed in frustration or anger. They're not even -- I don't know what's going on.  It's a puzzle.

BOLLING: Too early to tell?

GUTFELD: You know, he should have been gone. If not for this, but for all of those who have been shot and killed in Chicago while he went after Chick-Fil-A.

GUTFELD: Do you remember, he chose, like, a trend-friendly liberal story, going after Chick-Fil-A. While people were being shot, he treats -- as the streets have turned into a firing range.

But to Juan's point, what is the point of resigning if you replace him with another far-left, big government junkie? You know, you saw in Arab Spring, it's time for a liberal mayor spring.

BOLLING: Dana.

GUTFELD: Where all around the country? They just drop. They resign, everywhere.

BOLLING: All right. Sorry about this.

Dana, does Rahm Emanuel survive this? He was the one who said never let a tragedy go to waste.

PERINO: Well, political karma is a you know what. Because this is a guy who was very difficult to deal with in Washington, D.C. He doesn't have a lot of friends except for they're fake friends. They're political friends.  And believe me: they do not stick with you.

President Obama went to the White House briefing room to talk about other police brutality, said that that was important. With -- the cat got his tongue on this one. Where is he?

And Hillary Clinton said that she stands by Rahm Emanuel. I would bet in the next week, Hillary Clinton will also quietly drop her support for Rahm Emanuel; and he will move on and make millions somewhere else.

BOLLING: Very good. We're going to have to leave it right there. The TIME Person of the Year was named today, and it's not Donald Trump. And as you might expect, he had something to say about that and the selection when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Each year TIME magazine picks a Person of the Year. And for 2015 they chose Angela Merkel, the chancellor of Germany, for her role in guiding Europe through a debt crisis, a migration crisis and more.

The runner-up was ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and coming in third, well, a man who can't stand not being No. 1: Donald Trump.

As you can expect, he went right to Twitter following the announcement.  Here's what he said. "I told you, TIME magazine would never pick me as Person of the Year, despite being the big favorite. They picked the person who is ruining Germany."

What do you think, Eric?

BOLLING: I -- well, I think he means ruining Germany with at least referring to the 980,000 refugees that Germany is taking; and there's a lot of question whether that was a good idea. Angela Merkel definitely switched on her posture on that one.

I don't know that that's so good to be TIME's Person of the Year.

WILLIAMS: Why not?

BOLLING: One year it was the protester. Remember, on the heels of Occupy Wall Street.

WILLIAMS: Yes, if you're running for president, it would help.

BOLLING: One year it was Ferguson.

WILLIAMS: If you're running for president, it would help.

BOLLING: It would?

WILLIAMS: Yes. It would give you a lot of publicity. Wouldn't you say, K.G.?

BOLLING: Not sure.

GUILFOYLE: Look, I used to be a pretty big fan of Angela Merkel, because she wrote some really interesting pieces on multiculturalism and how it was kind of tearing communities apart. The focus on everyone could be separate and distinct and have their own community speak their own language, do their own thing.

We've shown that that's not been a successful fabric. And, in fact, you've seen some of the struggles now that, of course, they've had in France and some of the terror issues that we've seen, you know, throughout the world.

I think she's a strong, you know, choice in general for the other things she's done, like leading Germany through debt crisis and all that. But I don't know. I think I would like her to be a little bit more step-up as it relates to our coalition combatting terror.

WILLIAMS: Greg, what do you think about al-Baghdadi as No. 2?

GUTFELD: You know what's No. 2? TIME magazine. I used to read it. But I'm telling you...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Time is over for TIME magazine. I'm announcing, and I hope that you support me in this. This is the last time that we ever do this story about TIME's choices. They are so -- TIME magazine's choice is as irrelevant as a rotary phone on a pogo stick. Nobody reads this pamphlet.

You can go to a pharmacy and find a pamphlet on diabetes that's thicker than TIME magazine. It's a joke. It's just done for -- this is a promotional effort with all promotion, no effort. It's stupid, and yet I argued, we shouldn't do this story. They said, "Oh, don't worry: it's the end of the show."

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. So...

GUILFOYLE: Oh! Throw him under the bus.

WILLIAMS: Dana.

GUTFELD: Now I'm being honest.

WILLIAMS: No. 4 was Black Lives Matter. So Trump just beats out Black Lives Matter for Person of the Year.

PERINO: Well, you know, there's always next year. You could be on a stupid list. That's a joke. I mean, if that's what you really want.

I do think the fact that we should be -- at least be mindful. To actually glorify ISIS this way, do you think that they won't use this as propaganda?

GUTFELD: That's why we're doing the story.

PERINO: We are, too. I know.

GUTFELD: That's what we're doing. We're doing it because he was on the list. That's why we're doing it.

PERINO: But I'm saying with ISIS.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I do think that TIME magazine, could we have a little bit more responsible...

GUILFOYLE: You're right.

PERINO: More responsible than to try to glorify them? Because they obviously take it as a compliment and don't see it as joke.

WILLIAMS: Well, No. 7 -- No. 7, speaking of oddities, was just Caitlyn Jenner. I mean, I don't know how that gets on that list. But 6 was someone I've never heard of, Travis Kalanick, who's CEO of Uber.

Anyway, stay with us. "One More Thing" is next.

GUTFELD: He deserves it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: "One More Thing" -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So do you remember the amazing hero cop who bravely told everybody, during the San Bernardino, "Hey, listen, I'm going to take good care of you. I'm going to take a bullet for you." Well, that courageous man has been revealed as Detective Jorge Lozano, and he spoke out for the first time yesterday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DETECTIVE JORGE LOZANO, SAN BERNARDINO SHERIFF'S OFFICE: I meant what I said. I said for them just to kind of calm down and relax. That we were going to do everything we can to get them out of there safely.

It's nothing short of what any other person in law enforcement would do. I don't feel like a hero whatsoever. It's our job to put ourselves in the line of danger to protect the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Well, God bless Jorge Lozano. Because what a fantastic...

GUTFELD: Stud.

GUILFOYLE: ... example. That too, that too. Somebody giving back and serving the community fearlessly, bravely every day.

BOLLING: A good guy.

GUTFELD: Yes. Eric.

BOLLING: So when you run for president, social media matters a lot.  Remember when we told you about Chris Christie's super PAC, LeadershipMattersforAmerica.org, LMFAO. That was a fail.

How about this one? JebBush.com. If you type in JebBush.com, look what happens? Take this? It redirects to Donald Trump's website. Trump bought JebBush.com.

Guys, you've got to clean up your act. Everyone, just make sure all your "T's" are crossed and the "I's" are dotted.

PERINO: I wish we had another segment where we could bring him up.

WILLIAMS: That was ingenious.

PERINO: Can we stay over, after time?

BOLLING: If you want, we can do. O.T.

GUTFELD: All right. It's me. I'm signing books tonight. This is a first. I'm signing books online, which means if you go to LiveSigning.com, you can watch me sit there and talk to people and sign books. But you can also buy a book, and I will talk to you.

GUILFOYLE: That's kind of creepy.

GUTFELD: Yes, you go on there. You log on, and it's a live event. And I just sit there all over America. If you go there/

PERINO: It's like watching you sit in your living room?

GUTFELD: Exactly. I will be naked. No, I won't.

GUILFOYLE: No. Come on!

GUTFELD: I'm joking, of course. Because that would be horrifying.

GUILFOYLE: Shorty robe.

GUTFELD: Yes. All robes are shorty.

Dana.

PERINO: Yours. I mean, if you buy them in a children's department, that's what happens.

GUILFOYLE: Woo!

PERINO: All right. Get this. Putting a period at the end of a sentence while texting makes you seem insincere and rude. This is according to a new study at Binghamton University. They asked 126 undergrads to look at text messages and decide what was insincere or not. This is what's happening on college campus today.

I took a chance of just experimenting with Greg Gutfeld on a text exchange.  Look at this. Look how rude he is. I said, "Greg, do you want to go to Chipotle with me? He said, "No." With a period. I said, "Why not? I'm in the mood for a burrito bowl."

"Because it will kill you," he said, period. And I was just really offended.

GUILFOYLE: He was trying to save your life because of the E. Coli.

GUTFELD (humming the Ricola jingle): E. Coli.

(speaking): It's a lozenge that gives you diarrhea.

Who's next? Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. That's Ricola.

WILLIAMS: My love of Christmas and Christmas decorations...

PERINO: Oh, no.

WILLIAMS: ... which is going crazy here in New York City. But anyway, my love of Christmas and air travel are in conflict, because the newest thing in Christmas lights is laser displays.

And recently, a pilot flying over Dallas, one of those lasers hit his cockpit window at 15,000 feet. And of course, it created a whole blinding light situation. So the FAA is now starting to crack down on laser Christmas lights. A warning for all of you who, like me, just love and are dazzled by Christmas light displays.

GUILFOYLE: Didn't anybody figure this out already, though, Juan? It's like so obvious. If one pointer can screw someone up in the air, about 500 of them.

GUTFELD: Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode. "Special Report."

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