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The Five

Trump compares Muslim ban to FDR's policies of World War II

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 8, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

It is the latest proposal from Donald Trump and it has set up another national firestorm, he is taking hits from both the left and the right for his call to ban Muslim entry into the U.S. But he is firmly standing by, it reminding his critics, we are a nation at war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Trump compared his proposal this morning to FDR's policies of World War II.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We can't live like this. It's going to get worse and worse. You're going to have more World Trade Centers. It's going to get worse and worse, folks. We can be politically correct and we can be stupid, but it's going to get worse and worse. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victim of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in jihad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK. One of the very few times, actually Donald Trump has spoken from, a you know, written or prepared remarks, reading some of those comments there as he declared his policy position regarding the entry of Muslims into the United States. Specifically, referring to those that would seek entry versus people who are already here legally. OK, so Dana, take us through the communications aspect of this.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I would say that no one knows how to step on a negative Obama news cycle, better than Donald Trump. President Obama was having arguably one of the worst weeks of his presidency, having decided to do a primetime address on Sunday night that was largely panned with very few supporters. I mean, like I don't even think Hillary Clinton said that was a great speech. And today, I think that all of our candidates on the republican side would have loved to be talking about President Obama's lack of a plan, the fact that ISIS has been allowed to plot and plan and have a safe haven under his watch, how that the strategy is lacking. But instead, we're talking about whether we should ban Muslims. That's just the way that the cycle -- this election cycle has rolled, but I would think that almost all of our candidates would much rather have been talking about President Obama's Oval Office speech, instead of what his -- they've had to talk about this week -- well...

GUILFOYLE: All right.

PERINO: The last 24 hours.

GUILFOYLE: And I want to reference this really quick more, take around the table, but let's take a look at the FDR sound here, where he is talking about that, because this is basically the aspect of his policy that he is saying he's basing this on precedent that's been established before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What I'm doing is no different than what FDR. FDR's solution for German, Italians, Japanese, you know, many years ago...

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC'S GOOD MORNING AMERICA SHOW HOST: So you're for internment camps?

TRUMP: This was a president who was highly respected by all, he did the same thing. If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Bolling?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah, and George Stephanopoulos, I guess asking the questions. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Now he didn't say he was to internment camps, he simply said right after Pearl Harbor, FDR declared 25-25, 25-26, and 25-2, which basically said, if you're a Japanese, Italian or German, you could be rounded up and put into internment camps, sometimes they were. He didn't suggest that he simply saying put a halt to Muslims immigration. Muslim's coming into the country, a temporary halt on. So he doesn't go anywhere near the extent that FDR did. Yet, FDR is held in high esteem. Can I reference what Dana mentioned? Dana is right. The other republican -- the republican candidates who are not Donald Trump have decided to focus the day -- their commentary on Donald Trump. While Donald Trump focused his commentary on defeating ISIS, illegal immigration and what a failed strategy President Obama has for keeping us safe and keeping the country sound and moving forward. Boy, it's -- whether you agree with Donald Trump or not, it certainly is working and the polls are showing it. I think the last poll has him. CNN has him at 33 percent, 13 points higher than the next, than the runner-up. Which I think is Ted Cruz.

GUILFOYLE: OK, and then also we're going to have to see how this plays out in the polls that are subsequent to this announcement and see whether where the public temperature is on this. But it's one area so far you have the right and the left in agreement on which is kind of an interesting place to be. Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, I think the issue here is why do you have to make it so easy for your critics? Like Dana said, this was an amazing week for -- to watch Obama implode. I mean this really -- what we saw was a man who was out of time. Remember, President Obama wanted to choose the issue. It was going to be climate change. It was going to be captain climate change. But the events chose something else, and he is not a man of his time. He is now irrelevant and we should be focusing on that. Instead, what happened is somebody has actually kind of hijacked it with what I would believe the not the best language. For example, what Trump said isn't racist, but it sounds bigoted because of religion, you can't be racist against a religion, because a religion is nothing more than a set of ideas. And you can say about Islam within that set of ideas, there are things that are disturbing to you, especially when they're taken to a radical extreme. So the idea of targeting a Muslim for being a Muslim is a coarse way of looking at it. However, what he could have said was let's look at the ideas and let's ask questions about the ideas. If somebody is coming into our country, you ask them about ideology, because he was asked on MSNBC. The first question is, are you a Muslim? And if they say yes, are they not allowed? He agreed. Yes, all Muslims cannot be allowed. What he should have said was, do you believe in honor killing? Do you believe in Sharia law? Do you actually drill it down into the specific ideas that are dangerous to our country? Of course, the person will lie. So it's actually kind of pointless. So this all goes back to one simple thing, Obama and Trump are the yin and yang of politics. Obama abdicated this role. And what happens is when you are weak that allows the strongest, loudest voice to go in there. The PC creates the brutal response, they feed off of each other, and that is why people are looking at Trump and going like, compared to what we have now, I like it.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, you mentioned something there about having some kind of supporting arguments and specifics to back up what you're saying, the assertion later in one of those pieces that he released in a statement. He talked about this is, you know, a religion that doesn't treat women properly, that doesn't treat gays properly. This is -- they want to abdicate Sharia law, but that's lost in the message. The bottom line is as a country, it's a constitutionally permissible to ban people based on race or religion, et cetera.

GUTFELD: That's where you go for the idea.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, bottom line, First Amendment, Fifth Amendment comes into play. Due process, in addition, there are several international treaties that we have signed with NATO alliances and NATO countries that are members in the U.N. declaration that would also prohibit that and make it problematic. But then again, when you come into a time of war, then things can be put perhaps, on hold or further, you know, further guidelines and structures put in place to make sure that people who want to do us harm don't come in, regardless of race and religion. Juan?

JUAN WILLIAMS CO-HOST: Well you know, to me, I find myself in an odds position here today, because I find myself totally in agreement with a number of prominent republicans, Dick Cheney, Paul Ryan, Reince Priebus, these guys aren't saying this is about President Obama or somehow the distracting from President Obama's troubles. Nobody thinks they're going to forget that. The thing is that what Donald Trump said was so offensive in terms of our national values, in terms of our constitution and our protection of religious principles. I mean, Dick Cheney said this is inconsistent with our values. That's Dick Cheney, he's a conservative. Nobody is doubting his credentials.

GUILFOYLE: Agreeing with Hillary Clinton.

WILLIAMS: Hillary Clinton said, you know, there's something similar that it was reprehensible. You know, but the key point here for me is, it's not in keeping with our virtues. And Eric, I would say this, you can go back to FDR, but the Supreme Court has ruled that essentially, you're validating racism is the way the decision read with regard to the treatment of the Japanese during that period.

BOLLING: I -- listen, I didn't...

WILLIAMS: And don't forget that. What we see...

BOLLING: I didn't invoke FDR. Actually, what -- who did involve FDR was...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Race or religion.

BOLLING: Right. Based on Donald Trump saying it didn't go...

WILLIAMS: Donald Trump.

BOLLING: As far as FDR went. We know he's not suggesting. We round up Muslims and...

WILLIAMS: But what if...

BOLLING: By the way, by the way, also...

WILLIAMS: What if he is suggesting, Eric? Eric, Eric...

BOLLING: Not just internment camps also took their priority took back in 1944...

WILLIAMS: What is he suggesting?

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: Is he suggesting that if somebody -- I know that Dana is very, you know supportive of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. If she's a Muslim, she's a Muslim who speaks out against...

PERINO: She's an atheist.

WILLIAMS: Huh?

PERINO: I think she's agnostic.

WILLIAMS: OK, but I think she was a Muslim, OK. She leaves the country. She comes back in. Someone who speaks out aggressively against Muslim extremists where they say, oh you're a Muslim, you're out?

BOLLING: I believe it's -- I don't -- well, I know. I don't think you're out permanently, the way I understand that.

WILLIAMS: Oh.

BOLLING: Listen, I don't know...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So that's -- that here is the problem is that...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Or outline Trump's plans. What I understand it to be -- and I could be wrong...

GUILFOYLE: But there is...

BOLLING: Is that -- or a temporary halt...

GUILFOYLE: OK.

BOLLING: On Muslims coming in the country.

WILLIAMS: Eric, this is the best advertisement that ISIS could ask for in terms of anti-American sentiment worldwide. And I think that all of us should agree on that and not get locked in to the politics here in the United States.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: This is really offensive. And I think that's why a Dick Cheney and a Paul Ryan are standing up and speaking out as strong republican.

GUILFOYLE: because they don't want the party defined by that.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: But ISIS is going to do what it does, OK. They've got, you know, blood lust for all western ways and to the United States, and that's not...

GUTFELD: I think you're being a little harsh on ISIS, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right, I'm sorry. Let me...

PERINO: I think, it is just another example and I said from day one, on June 16th, that's almost six months ago, that when you are loose with your commentary or your plans and you are the frontrunner, then you put your supporters in a position of trying to come up with, "well, I think he means this. I don't know. I'm not really sure." And it makes everybody have to scramble to try support him, and to me seems a little bit unfortunate. I also think that what Trump, I think, if you want to really figure out a way to help this situation, focus on the fact that government incompetence, at his administration allowed Syed Farook...

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

PERINO: Who was born in America, like so, we're talking. We're talking in - - we are in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. We have barely even given any commentary and focus on the victims of a terrorist attack on American soil while we are -- now, we are talking about banning Muslims from coming. Does that include King Abdullah of Jordan? Would he not be allowed to come in?

GUTFELD: What about Jason (inaudible)?

PERINO: And then, so you start going like, what -- people are gonna be able to go into the Oval Office and say, "OK, sir, wait. What about this one? What about that one? Could this one come in?"

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: What does temporary mean? What do you looking for?

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: When is that going to end?

GUILFOYLE: Well, the bottom line is, we have a serious problem in this country and we -- there is definitely some lacks and the problems that they didn't spot this terror attack and they should have the planning, the money trail, the radicalization, we have to do a better job with that. You have over 20 percent of the people coming into this country on K-1 fiance visas which have very weak requirements. Take a look at that. Terror and jihad will always take the easy path and that's the way in and access to the United States. So take a look at it. I don't care what your skin color is, race, religion, et cetera. Do background checks. Don't have an epic fail, like going to check this woman's address in Pakistan that did not exist. And she came here anyway, and they're practicing at the firing range and their house loaded with IEDs and pipe bombs, and to the kill first responders and everybody else. Like wake up, something needs to change. That's what I'm saying.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but I think there's nothing terrible in what was said here. So we talk about barring Russians?

GUILFOYLE: I'm talking about something -- I'm talking what I have said about.

WILLIAMS: Do we talk about barring Russians during the Cold War?

GUTFELD: Hey, watch it.

WILLIAMS: Do we talk about barring, you know, the Chinese? No. No, they're picking -- he's picking on Muslims. He's picking on specific faith. And to me, this is like when William F. Buckley said, "You know what, you John Barkers (ph), you're not republicans and you're not allowed here." I think Reince Priebus and the RNC should say, you know what, we are cutting ties. We are condemning it. And I think that's what we said today...

BOLLING: Didn't they even bother that they weren't going to do that?

WILLIAMS: Republicans have been reluctant to speak out against Donald Trump, but today...

GUILFOYLE: That's not true.

WILLIAMS: We saw something different.

GUILFOYLE: That's not true...

BOLLING: Can I just...

GUILFOYLE: There's plenty of opposition, candidates coming after him.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Whether they like him or not and republicans and GOP -- Priebus and the rest of the team love him or hate him, Donald Trump delivered these comments after he originally made him, and then went last night. He went to South Carolina, to an audience of tens of thousands who gave him a standing ovation...

WILLIAMS: They did.

BOLLING: After that speech. Then --

WILLIAMS: What do you think that the...

BOLLING: Hold on, hold on. But here's what I think it means...

GUILFOYLE: If people would care, they want something...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Jeb Bush, this afternoon said, this is not just about the blow- hazard just saying stuff, because it isn't -- this is that program -- that isn't a program that's isn't a plan to a room of about 90 in New Hampshire. John Kasich, to a room of about 100 in South Carolina had similar comments. The point is, be -- the point is -- he's resonating. People are like -- they're buying what Donald Trump is selling.

WILLIAMS: But Eric, Eric, demagoguery and hatred and fear-mongering sell. You can make a movie about it, the people will watch. It's not good for us. It's not a good for America, Eric.

GUTFELD: Also, also, there's a pattern that we're seeing. Whenever he says something...

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: That is incorrect or exaggerated, his fans revert to the size of the audience he says he in front of. If you know that it's true and if you know that it's right, you don't need to reference the group of people there. By the way, I'm all for fear-mongering. I think that everything that Kimberly said was dead-on and correct. The problem is, you fear-mongering gets smeared when you get -- when you can't be specific about what you should be scared of and to provide eloquent and forceful solutions to what you be -- to what you should be scared of. And that's the problem when you to say, stop all Muslims. You actually are giving fear-mongering a bad name. When fear-mongering is exactly what we should be doing, it is important that we get scared and then we act accordingly.

PERINO: Actually, and I agreed with Donald Trump last week. When he was very forceful in talking about, calling it radical Islam and extremist.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: And he was said, we should do that. But OK, then he erased all of that yesterday, by saying we should not let any Muslims coming in...

GUILFOYLE: Because bottom line is -- yeah.

PERINO: You're putting them all together - so you can't distinguish the peaceful from the radicals.

GUILFOYLE: Well, right. And I think everybody agrees, everyone conclude something. Different needs to be done. We've had fails in the system and we've allowed this to seep through and you're only as strong as your weakest links. Revamp visas, immigrations system takes us a harder, tougher look to make all of us, all of us here. Regardless of religion and race, want to be safe and live in this country and do good things and not be afraid every night. And when we go to bed, and wake up in the morning, and we want a president who actually gonna do something. Do something.

New evidence has emerges that continues to prove the attack in San Bernardino last week was, premeditated. The break-in details, ahead on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: We know the two married jihadists in California went to target practice in the days before their massacre. Now, more evidence that the attack was premeditated. Two weeks before the shootings, $28,000 was mysteriously wired to Syed Farook's bank account. The question is, from whom?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: And if we can demonstrate that this is connected to the attack, whether it was used to buy the weapons, or whether it was used in advance, as some kind of bounty, if you will, to pay for relatives or for the operation prior to the attack, well, then we've just got the smoking gun. Then we know this isn't just a one- off, not a couple that followed the path of jihad together, but this is part of a larger conspiracy. If this is true, then we will find that this is potentially part of the broader global jihadi movement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: After receiving the money, Farook took out $10,000 in cash and made a series of money transfers to his mother. Judge Napolitano suggests she and other family members could be criminally liable if they withheld information.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST FOR FOX NEWS: Treason, which is defined as waging war on the United States, or giving aid and comfort to the United States enemies in war time. You could argue that these two killers waged war on the United States.

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE SHOW HOST: Then you got to know, then you have to prove the mother or somebody else in the family knew that they were going to do it.

NAPOLITANO: Correct. And in my view, it is worth the FBI going down that street, to find out what they knew because it is likely to lead to other people. It is worth charging her. If for no other reason than to induce her to cope up, who else probably knew about this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge broke the story on the money transfer and she joins us live from Washington, D.C. Tell us a little bit more about the details on that, because you got some additional information this afternoon.

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well Dana, what we understand this afternoon is that Syed Farook went to what's called a peer- to-peer loan website called Prosperous, based out of San Francisco, and he found a loan whose terms were pretty agreeable to him. We understand it was a debt consolidation loan, and that loan was originated out of Utah, in this webbank.com. It was from webbank.com that there was this $28,500 transfer on or around November 18th, two weeks in advance of the attack. And then thereafter, the $10,000 cash withdrawal, which investigators believe was probably used to buy these assault rifles from his friend, Enrique Marquez. So that the bottom line here is that based on our reporting, it does not look like any foreign money was involved. In fact, Syed Farook was pretty clever at working the system to get some kind of debt consolidation loan if an American bank to carry out this shooting. Dana?

PERINO: All right, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, he did it on purpose, because transactions over $10,000 would have to be reported so sneaky terrorists, what else is new. OK, so also want to talk about the, you know, the grandmother. That she was upstairs, it's like oh, and the two attorneys, Bevis and Butthead came out of the conference and said, listen this is the terrible because the grandmother was interrogated for seven hours and this is by a guy that looked like he would be a plant in the mosque, you know, for the FBI. Why wouldn't you want to, as Judge Napolitano was saying, question her and get all the information you can. Because how could she not be present in that home and not realize that all of these things were going on. IED factory, pipe bombs, weapons, cash, all of it, it's pretty obvious that she was aware of what was going during that time, living in that kind of close quarters.

HERRIDGE: Well, in addition to the 19 pipe bombs they found, Kimberly, at the home in the garage. Our reporting shows that in these two weeks, leading up to the shooting in San Bernardino, Syed Farook, after he took out the $10,000 to, what we believed was to purchase the rifles. He then started a series of $5,000 transfers to his mother for a total of $15,000...

GUILFOYLE: Exactly.

HERRIDGE: So he basically cleaned out his bank account in advance of the plot, and this is a standard MO in these terrorist operations, when involves a suicide mission. We also saw that with the 9/11 hijackers. One other point on the mother, she was involved in what appears to be a pretty difficult divorce from his father. They filed in 2006, and it was not, it was not closed or final until April of this year. And she filed some court documents about her financial situation and living arrangements in February, and there are a lot of irregularities in that as well. She said she lived only with her son, and of course, at that time, he was married and his wife, Tashfeen was heavily pregnant. So with the mother, you've got these unusual cash transfers. She had some money trouble. And then you have what's a glaring irregularity in the court records about her living arrangements, earlier this year.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that's a lie. Duplicitous behavior, so she should be, you know, investigated and she potentially could be a co-conspirator, an accomplice, before and after the fact and accessory. So therefore, she would be in big trouble and they would be well within their rights to arrest her.

PERINO: Eric Bolling?

BOLLING: So Catherine, I also agree, I think this should be very easy to tie up. They can tie the mother up, find out if she's been radicalized or not very easily. The question is I think there's some reporting this afternoon about Tashfeen's family back in Saudi Arabia, whether they were radicalized back there. Do we have anything further on that?

HERRIDGE: What we've been able to learn through our reporting, Eric. When we almost from the get-go, and is that the view of investigators has been that Tashfeen Malik was like pouring gasoline on the fire of radicalization for the husband. That she was radicalized by the time she entered the United States as well. And what we understand, independently, from our reporting, and we don't have the name yet, but the baby's name, was also somewhat unusual. It was not a Pakistani name. It was an Arabic name that seemed to have some significance. Eric?

PERINO: All right, Juan Williams?

WILLIAMS: Catherine, let me just take it beyond Eric's question go to Pakistan, which is where she was born. The whole idea that Pakistan is supposed to be our ally comes into question in my mind. We maybe now -- even have the father on the terror watch list. What is Pakistan's role? What is Pakistani Intelligence telling our Intelligence about this woman?

GUILFOYLE: Well, the people that harbored bin Laden? Yeah, there's...

HERRIDGE: First, I want to say. I -- we have - this I have not independently confirmed that the father was added to any watch list, but he is certainly the subject of the investigation. With Pakistan, the interesting thing we've seen play out over the last couple of days is almost like this fight between the Pakistani and Saudi authorities over who really has ownership of this wife. She was not a Saudi citizen. The Saudi embassy said that here in Washington on the record. She was born in Pakistan, so at least based on our reporting, the Pakistani authorities are trying to run down what they can about her, but the bottom line with her is that she really grew up culturally and sort of religiously if you will, in Saudi Arabia. And the question is whether she had become sort of in sync with the Salafist Wahhabi view of Islam, which is this very extreme view that is totally intolerant with the west.

PERINO: All right, last question to Greg.

GUTFELD: First, I want to say thank you for saying Pakistan.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: A lot of these like Home Depot, they'll have like trip wires if you buy certain chemicals or pipes. Did they get around that or did they not buy enough to the stock pile? How did they not -- how do that not set off anything?

HERRIDGE: That's an excellent question. I don't have a good answer to that and I don't want to give the viewers bad information. What I do have an answer to that, which certainly suggests they tried to again, work around or work the system is that we just confirmed this afternoon that in that month leading up to the attack, there were in fact three different transactions on his banking records with gun stores and ammunition stores online. I just spoke to one before coming to the studio in Oregon, where he may well have purchased a lot of the ammunition that was stockpiled at the home. But the tell-tale signature of this whole operation is that they were smart and they were focused and they were working around the system, basically at every turn.

PERINO: All right, thanks, Catherine.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

PERINO: Next, why stricter gun laws in America won't deter terrorists from striking again. We're back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: When the horror of terror subsides, the media returns to its default programming: evil, evil guns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The recent terror attacks have created pervasive fear here in America. But how serious is the threat really?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They hit us at a holiday work party, on the streets of Paris and at a Marine recruiting center. But terror attacks are actually quite rare.

Since 9/11, Islamic extremists have killed 45 Americans on U.S. soil. Five a year on average. Not even close to the 11,000 Americans killed every year by gun violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes, and cars kill 33,000 people a year as well -- so what's your point? That terror is but a trifle when compared to evil firearms? But as gun ownership rises, the gun homicide rate plummets by 50 percent over two decades. So that means more guns, less deaths.

But I get it: Mass shootings are truly awful. So let's say we satisfy the president and take all those guns away. Then what's left for the terrorists then? How about box cutters on a jet? Pressure cookers, car bombs, pipe bombs, Sarin gas, small explosive hidden in underwear? Bio-poisons?

You see, the armies of the apocalypse hate guns, too. To them, they're inefficient for Armageddon. Guns don't kill thousands or millions at a pop. That's why gun control doesn't resonate with the terrorist or the sober realist who gets the threat.

If the president were honest with himself, he'd wish that guns were all terrorists had, for that's surmountable. But the scarier stuff being planned for mass death may not be.

I would plead with sane liberals -- Juan -- to agree that this apocalyptic goal indeed exists and join us in stopping it. But if you don't, you abdicate the battle over human existence to fiends. The sooner we, as a country, unify over this cause -- be you left, right, libertarians, librarians -- the more likely our world will survive.

Until then, we reside in a world of erratic mayhem, lucky that all we have for now are shootings.

So K.G., they have more plan for us. They have bigger plans. They have remote-controlled cars with pipe bombs.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: In about a year those will be replaced by drones.

GUILFOYLE: That's the -- that's the point. Because terror and jihad like this will always find a way and means of execution, whether it's beheadings or drownings or lighting someone on fire. Or a pressure cooker or a pipe bomb or a regular weapon. Any kind of weapon. Weapons that aren't going to be legal ever in this country like a normal handgun, they will find a way. That's why he went to the range and was using not only the AR-15, but shooting with the handgun, as well. They're going to find a way.

So you have to find a way to eliminate them and eradicate their ideology and the attraction of it. That's when you're making steps in the right direction instead of having hypersensitive hysteria that is not fact-based about guns in this country and trying to erode our Second Amendment rights. That's the problem and the confusion here, and we need to eschew obfuscation.

BOLLING: Can I just jump in here...

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: ... and tack onto that a little bit. Do you know the number that's been thrown around a lot, 355 mass shootings? A mass shooting that's defined as four people shot. That happens, like, every other hour in Chicago.

If you eliminate both the crime and the hold-ups and the situations like that, there have only been a handful of truly deadly mass shootings. So they're tacking on the gun control debate on an event that's happened maybe four or five times in the whole year. Instead, 355. It sounds better to say more than one per day.

GUTFELD: Juan, it's true that to make this number large they put gang turf battles into it.

WILLIAMS; That's a fact. So I mean to me, when I'm listening I'm thinking to myself so if three people are killed instead of five it's a different measure. You don't have no problem with gun violence.

BOLLING: I'm saying they're using the 355 number on the heels of an attack in San Bernardino or Newtown, Connecticut. It had nothing to do with it.

WILLIAMS: You know -- I want to have a conversation with Greg, because he says, you know, a rational liberal. I want to have a conversation with a rational conservative.

BASH: We're going to find one.

WILLIAMS: I think you guys are rational. I think you are. But I think the fact is the numbers CDC says between 2001-2013, 400,000 people, Gregory, dead from gun violence in this country.

GUTFELD: How many?

WILLIAMS: Four hundred thousand.

GUTFELD: From when?

BOLLING: Ten years.

GUTFELD: It's declined by 50 percent over 20 years.

WILLIAMS; Decline or not, if I'm dead, you're coming to the funeral. You're coming to the funeral if I'm dead.

GUTFELD: I would hate to come to your funeral.

GUILFOYLE: By the way even "Mother Jones" is saying the 355 mass shootings, wrong.

GUTFELD: Dana, last thought?

PERINO: I just think. I'll give a reading recommendation. Bill McGurn today in The Wall Street Journal, his column today talks about how liberals don't like to talk about evil and terrorism. That's why they always revert back to talking about guns.

GUTFELD: Because they can blame us, not them. Thank you, Lisa Simpson, for another reading.

GUILFOYLE: She is Lisa.

GUTFELD: All right. Ahead it's not just a threat. Terrorists are trying to slip into America through the Obama administration's Syrian refugee program. Details coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: The Obama administration is still determined to bring thousands, maybe tens of thousands of Syrian refugees to the U.S., despite this bombshell dropped by the head of the homeland security committee. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: The United States government has information to indicate that individuals tied to terrorist groups in Syria have already attempted to gain access to our country through the U.S. refugee program.

Extremists are not only disguising their travel to evade detection; they're also concealing their communications. No longer do terrorists plot by using couriers and caves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Yet the White House insists all refugees will be properly vetted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Those individuals that seek to enter the United States through the refugee resettlement program, do so only after undergoing the most intensive screening of anybody who attempts to enter the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: But the vetting process certainly didn't stop this jihadi bride from being let into the U.S. from Pakistan. So it's no longer just a threat: terrorists have tried to enter the U.S. through this program. We're talking about the refugee program. McCaul mentions that ISIS has said, "We're going through that refugee program."

PERINO: Yes, and so a couple of things. One, so Tashfeen, she comes in on a fiance visa. You have to look you know, President Obama the other night in his speech actually gets it wrong. And he talks about visa waiver program. It was a fiance visa program.

On the refugee issue, I think that Paul Ryan, the new speaker of the House, has probably put forward the best possible legislation on this, which is a little bit of a pause. A little more looking into all the different people.

Now the refugee program, you do kind of have a pretty thorough vetting process. I also think the bigger problem is those who are coming here illegally, that we don't know about.

BOLLING: The ones through the southern border. Any border.

PERINO: Any border.

BOLLING: Any border -- Greg.

GUTFELD: If you think evil is trying to do something, I'm sorry, they've already done it. Good is slower than evil. Evil never sleeps, and evil doesn't get a hangover or hangnail. They never get tired. They're always figuring out something. So if there's some kind of process that's vulnerable, chances are it's already been violated. And all we can do now is play catch-up.

BOLLING: Juan, President Obama has guaranteed that this was not going to be the case. It wasn't going to happen. Now McCaul says it's happening.

WILLIAMS: What McCaul is talking about, though, is different than the...

BOLLING: No, no. Let's stay on the refugee program.

WILLIAMS: The fiance. Right. The fiance. But on refugees I think the house is going to take up legislation later this week on the visa waiver program, which affects the 38.

BOLLING: Stay on refugees.

WILLIAMS: I think a lot of people coming in through the 38 countries. They could be...

BOLLING: You're doing waiver programs. Can you stay on the refugees? The Syrian refugees? We thought...

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. Let's talk about how come to that.

BOLLING: ... might carry some ISIS fighters.

WILLIAMS: Well, that program, that vetting is extremely thorough. They don't even set foot on U.S. soil unless they've spent two -- 18 months to two years overseas being inspected and reviewed, Eric.

BOLLING: Well, K.G., McCaul would beg to differ.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, because guess what? McCaul has the information. So why are people going to continue to speculate or be deniers, terror deniers? They should listen to the facts and information there and then be prepared to make changes as necessary.

Otherwise, you are just completely neglecting any interest in national security and keeping us safe. Revamp some of these programs. And when we have proof, like we did in Paris, of two guys coming in and using that refugee program to come in, to be able to commit acts of terror, wake up.

BOLLING: Quickly.

PERINO: I do have something to say. But do not forget, the reason we have a refugee crisis is because we did not act four years ago. Do not forget where the blame should be placed.

And because we didn't act, not only are we facing problems, but our allies in Europe, 975,000 refugees in Germany and elsewhere, that is a bigger problem, and it's because Obama didn't act.

GUILFOYLE: President Obama built that.

BOLLING: We've got to go.

Next, Trump's opponents are slamming him over his proposal to ban foreign Muslims from America. Will his idea help or hurt his campaign? Ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Donald Trump wants to keep Muslims from entering the United States. But he's not getting much support from his friends on the right and certainly not from his opponents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a race-baiting, xenophobic religious bigot. He doesn't represent my party. He doesn't represent the values that the men and women who wear the uniform are fighting for.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): You do not need to be banning Muslims from the country. That's, in my view, that's a ridiculous position and one that won't even be productive.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That overreaction is as dangerous as Barack Obama's under-reaction. He is mobilizing anti-Muslim sentiment. He is preying on the fears of the American people. It is called rabble-rousing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: And the White House had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The first thing a president does, when he or she takes the oath of office is to swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. And the fact is that what Donald Trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: So Dana, you've been in that position. Ed Henry said to me today there was some concern at the White -- among the White House press corps saying to Josh Earnest, well, normally you don't talk about politics. Why are you talking about it now?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I actually think that this White House talks about politics entirely too much. If I were the White House, knowing that I'd had probably one of the worst media weekends of the presidency, and a really important one, I would have said, "I'm going to let the Republicans fight this one out."

Why he had to get involved and then, like, get Republicans to unite against him is beyond me. I would have just given it a pass and said let the Republicans eat each other up.

GUILFOYLE: right. Because those are the people you condemn every day. Push granny off the cliff.

WILLIAMS: There was a Republican consultant who said today that Trump's language makes it easier for Republican critics to portray the party as hostile to all minorities. Do you think that's fair?

GUILFOYLE: Listen, I mean, I think each candidate has to run on their own qualifications, their own beliefs, their own specifics of policy as it relates to national security, the economy, trade, shops, all of these things. Focus on your game, and quit trying to play on the other -- like let Trump stand on his own with his comments and his beliefs.

WILLIAMS: You wouldn't say anything?

GUILFOYLE: I'm not saying that. I'm saying, like, be strong on your messaging. Know what you stand for. Give people a reason to choose you specifically. Not a vote just against someone else.

WILLIAMS: OK. Eric, now Trump was supposed to -- well, they were thinking of having fundraiser for the Republican National Committee here in New York tomorrow. The question was whether Trump would attend. Reince Priebus, the chair said no, Trump is not appearing. He won't appear. What does this mean about the relationship between Trump and the Republican Party?

BOLLING: And I think what Josh Earnest did was brilliant today. Not only did he say Trump, what he said disqualifies him. He went one step further and said any Republican candidate that doesn't agree or step out against Trump, that should disqualify them, as well. Putting the, you know, the -- shine the light on them so that they go ahead.

The Democrats have to love this in-fighting. They must love that Trump, his numbers are strong. And everyone else is taking shots at him. They must be sitting back going, "This is great. This is great. Just keep going, guys."

So all Earnest did was fuel that fire. And the Republicans for some reason, those who aren't into Donald Trump, buy into it. I mean today...

WILLIAMS: But...

BOLLING: For any of them to say what Dana said. Forget Trump, let's talk about what Obama is saying.

GUTFELD: That's actually not fair, because if you have a spine and you believe what Trump said was wrong...

WILLIAMS: There you go.

GUTFELD: ... you have to say it's wrong so you sleep at night. That doesn't necessarily mean that you disagree with him on the over-arching message that radical Islam is probably the most dangerous thing we will face in our lifetime. It's about making sure that your message isn't contaminated by -- by an exaggeration that is not thoughtful or coherent or perhaps even eloquent.

You've got to look at the 1950s and the 1960s. That's when the liberals forfeited the fight against communism. And what that led to was a great many conservatives who were anti-communist, but it also created Joseph McCarthy. The left latched onto Joseph McCarthy.

What you're seeing right now is liberals forfeit the fight against radical Islam, is that they're creating a great many conservatives fighting radical Islam. But you're also seeing the rise of Donald Trump. It's a reaction to their abdication to their cowardice.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, we have so much to say, but "One More Thing" is up next. Stay around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." Juan -- more thing?

GUTFELD: Ha.

GUILFOYLE: That was from Greg.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, there's a popular Christmas display in San Antonio, Texas, that you've got to see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Yes. They're raising money for clean water access in Africa. Matt and Melissa Johnson created this 10-minute dubstep -- Greg knows what that means -- kind of musical display. It's unbelievable. And they say that, for all that electricity, it's the same amount of electricity as if you used a hairdryer.

PERINO: But wait. I thought they were raising money for conservation?

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Somebody call Solyndra. I hope they had solar panels.

GUTFELD: Four micrograms of acid. You don't need that.

GUILFOYLE: Greg, Greg, Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. Sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I hate these people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: You know, I hate Chipotle. And I'll tell you why I hate Chipotle. Because that had the little sign that says we don't use GMO, genetically modified organisms, in their food. Somehow that makes it healthier. Except they're giving everybody diarrhea.

The latest, you've got eight basketball players have reported gastrointestinal symptoms. Overnight Saturday after eating at Chipotle. "The New York Post" is calling it the great Chipotle E. coli outbreak of 2015.

So while they bad-mouth GMOs, which save lives, they're giving everybody a case of you know what. I hate you, Chipotle.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. There goes the burrito bowl. OK. Dana.

PERINO: All right. No more Mr. Nice Cat. Check out this cat. This is a video uploaded in Russia. This poor little toddler, just walking along. This is what cats do.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: Oh.

PERINO: Let's just see it one more time. Cats, all right? This is dogs don't do this. All right. Body slam.

GUILFOYLE: Why do they do that? Probably just cold and wants to warm up their paws.

GUTFELD: It's a game cats play on the street.

GUILFOYLE: There's a saying, you never know with cats.

GUTFELD: The knock-out game.

GUILFOYLE: Eric.

BOLLING: So very quickly, there's a billboard in North Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina, that's stirring up controversy. Check it out: it's a gun-toting Santa, creating a lot of gun-haters saying the billboard is offensive, should come down.

By the way, here are a couple of quick numbers. One hundred million firearms have been sold under President Obama's term. And also Smith and Wesson is up 110 percent year to date, and Ruger is up almost 50 percent year to date. With the stock market down, people are running for their guns.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. He's like -- is he a secret lobbyist for, like, Smith and Wesson?

WILLIAMS: Oh, no.

BOLLING: Me?

GUILFOYLE: Not you.

BOLLING: Obama?

GUILFOYLE: President Obama.

WILLIAMS: How about the NRA?

GUILFOYLE: OK. Hard turn here. Let's go back to Paris and the Bataclan theater. And remember the band that was supposed to play that night or was there playing? The Eagles of Death Metal. They returned to Paris for the first time since the terror attacks and joined U-2 on the stage for their final song.

U-2 front man Bono giving them a great introduction and saying, "These are our brothers, our fellow troubadours." He said they were robbed of their stage three weeks ago, and we would like to offer them ours tonight.

Earlier in the day they made an emotional return to the Bataclan venue, and they laid down flowers. Nicely done.

Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." You know what? What's next? "Special Report."

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