Falwell urging students to arm themselves; Widow of California shooting victim speaks out

Liberty University president goes on 'Hannity' to explain his position


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," December 7, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." Tonight, President Obama and Hillary Clinton are choosing political correctness over protecting you, the American people, in this fight against ISIS. Now, last night, while addressing the nation from the Oval Office, the president did admit that last week's massacre in San Bernardino was an act of terrorism.  But then he said this. Watch.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We cannot turn against one another by letting this fight be defined as a war between America and Islam. That, too, is what groups like ISIL want. ISIL does not speak for Islam. They are thugs and killers, part of a cult of death, and they account for a tiny fraction of the more than a billion Muslims around the world.

It is the responsibility of all Americans of every faith to reject discrimination. It is our responsibility to reject religious tests on who we admit into this country. It's our responsibility to reject proposals that Muslim Americans should somehow be treated differently because when we travel down that road, we lose. That kind of divisiveness, that betrayal of our values, plays into the hands of groups like ISIL.


HANNITY: And Hillary Clinton -- well, she even denies we are at war with ISIS. And when it comes to talking about defeating ISIS, well, Hillary Clinton is on the same page as President Obama and used the same kind of dangerous, well, denial rhetoric. Take a look.


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's important to remind ourselves that Islam itself is not our adversary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the problem with radical Islam?

CLINTON: Well, the problem is that that sounds like we are declaring war against a religion, and that to me is, number one, wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though the qualifier "radical" is there?

CLINTON: No, because -- look, you know enough about religion, you've studied it, and there are radicals, people who believe all kinds of things in every religion in the world. I don't want to do that because, number one, it doesn't do justice to the vast numbers of Muslims in our own country and around the world who are peaceful people. Number two, it helps to create this clash of civilizations that is actually a recruiting tool for ISIS.


HANNITY: Now, the president and Hillary Clinton are telling everyone to be careful about what they say, while FOX news has learned that the bombs the California jihadists left at the Inland Regional Center -- guess what? They were meant to harm the first responders. The FBI also said earlier that the suspects were radicalized for, quote, "quite some time."

Here with reaction, columnist Mark Steyn. He has a new musical album called "Feline Groovy: Songs for Swinging Cats." And by the way, Mark will be testifying tomorrow before the Senate on the issue of climate change.

All right, so I looked at the president's speech last night. To me, it's pretty obvious. This is a CYA. This is a, Uh-oh, I said they were the JV team. I said they were contained. I said they didn't represent an existential threat to Americans. I was wrong. Let me go back on that and act like I really care, but no major change in policy. So all words, no action, no change in policy. How did you interpret it?

MARK STEYN, "A DISGRACE TO THE PROFESSION" AUTHOR: Right. Yes, I mean, he basically got that out of the way, and then spent three times as much time effectively talking about how racist and bigoted Americans are, which is the message you would have got -- if you were watching this anywhere around the planet, you would have concluded that the president of the United States thought the principal security threat was his own bigoted and racist people.

This isn't a small thing that he did last night, Sean. Effectively, the president took the same position as CAIR and the other Islamic lobby groups...

HANNITY: Well, you know...

STEYN: ... that when there's a big pile of corpses in a Western city, the real victims are the poor Muslims because someone might look at them funny on the bus on the way to work the following morning.

HANNITY: Loretta Lynch said the same thing, that she was going to go after people that used hate speech last week. She's pulling back on it today. But well, the FBI actually has statistics on this very issue. And 62.4 percent of victims of hate speech -- you know who they are? They're Jewish Americans. It's only...

STEYN: Exactly.

HANNITY: It's only 11.6 percent that have an anti-Muslim bias.

STEYN: Right.

HANNITY: So I don't know exactly what they're referring to. They're trying to create a controversy where there is none.

STEYN: Well, no, the attorney general's words were quite disgraceful, and it shouldn't require a foreigner coming on your show to point it out, Sean. She's supposed to defend the 1st Amendment. This country has free speech. Loretta Lynch announced that, as far as she's concerned, it is free speech but.

One of the reasons we're in the situation we're in -- we have a stupid homeland security slogan that they paid some, you know, marketing group a ton of money to come up with, "If you see something, say something."  Loretta Lynch just says, If you see something and you make the mistake of saying something, she'll tie you up in a hate crimes prosecution for the next half decade.

When clock boy, Ahmed the clock boy, brought a ticking object to school and the fellows at the school thought they saw something, they're now being sued for 15 million bucks. So if you see something and you say something, you're a chump because Obama says you're a racist and Loretta Lynch says she's going to bring hate crimes charges and Ahmed the clock boy's family are going to sue you for 15 million bucks!

HANNITY: And this other thing -- and as the president advances his anti-gun narrative, he keeps talking about, Well, people on the no-fly list shouldn't have the right to buy guns. Well, I hate to tell you the San Bernardino shooters, the Tsarnaev bombers, the Fort Hood shooter, the Chattanooga shooter -- no perpetrator of any major attack on American soil was on the no-fly list, but there are 72 people on the no-fly list that work for Obama's Department of Homeland Security. How about he fires them?  Why don't we start there.

STEYN: Yes, exactly.

HANNITY: Or send them away. Maybe that's another good -- what do you think of Donald Trump's idea? Trump sent out a press release today and talked about a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S. until our country's representatives can figure out what's going on.

He cited two polls Twenty-five percent in the Center for Security Policy poll agreed violence against Americans here in the U.S. is part of global jihad. Fifty-one percent agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of adopting sharia.

STEYN: Right.

HANNITY: So there is a clash of cultures. Hillary is wrong, right?

STEYN: Yes. And what happens is it generally gets worse with each generation. So you find that older Muslims who arrived in the '50s and '60s are often perfectly assimilated. But actually, as we see in this particular case, young Muslims born here can be far more radical. And an extraordinary number of them -- an extraordinary number of them do want to live under sharia, do believe in death for apostasy, do believe, for example, in female genital mutilation, do believe in honor killings. And the evidence is quite constant not just in the United States but across the Western world.


HANNITY: ... it is the antithesis of what we as a democratic constitutional republic believe!

STEYN: Right.

HANNITY: But I got to ask you one more question. The House Homeland Security chair, Representative Mike McCaul, actually said the White House - - not releasing information to the public -- that it would indicate, this information, that ISIS plans -- and there are plans and we know it for ISIS to infiltrate the refugee population, like they did in Paris. And the female shooter in this case was able to get in through a fiance visa, and she gave the wrong address, and we didn't even catch it.

STEYN: Right.

HANNITY: So why should we trust the president in taking in refugees if we think that -- if we know ISIS is going to infiltrate that population?

STEYN: Right. Who's more insane here, the president who says everyone will be rigorously vetted -- I know I wasn't rigorously vetted any more than the crazy mass-murdering missus from Pakistan was rigorously vetted. That's rubbish. That's nonsense. That doesn't happen.

So who's more insane, the president who makes promises that everybody knows is rubbish, or Trump, who says the issue here is that this psychosis incubates within Islam, and that is something worth being able to discuss honestly without the president and his attorney general and the next president in waiting calling us all bigots!

HANNITY: Yes. All right, Mark Steyn, always good to have you, sir.  Thank you for your insight.

When we come back, Donald Trump says we need to stop all Muslims from entering the U.S. until our leaders can figure out what is going on with the threat that ISIS poses to the homeland. We'll have reaction to that.

And later tonight...


JERRY FALWELL, JR., LIBERTY UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: I just want to take this opportunity to encourage all of you to get your permit. We offer a free course. And let's -- let's teach them a lesson if they ever show up here.


HANNITY: The president of Liberty University, Jerry Falwell, Jr., coming under fire for those comments. He's here tonight to respond to some of those critics, including Hillary Clinton. That's straight ahead.


HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." So after last week's deadly terrorist attack in San Bernardino, Americans all across the country are on edge. Now, over the weekend, 2016 Republican front-runner Donald Trump took a very strong stance against radical Islam and explained what he would do if he was elected our next president. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should there be profiling?

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think there can be profiling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How? How would that work?

TRUMP: If they thought there was something wrong with that group and they saw what was happening and they didn't want to call the police because they didn't want to be profiling, I think that's pretty bad.

You have people that have to be tracked. If they're Muslims, they're Muslims. But you have people that have to be tracked. We have one person that I really know of and it's called President Obama. Until he admits that this is a problem, we're never going to solve the problem. But he's only going to be there, fortunately, a little bit more than a year because the problem will get solved when he gets the hell out.

I would certainly go after the wives, who absolutely knew it was happening. And I guess your definition of what I do, I'm going to leave that to your imagination But I will tell you, I would be very tough on families.


HANNITY: And that's not all. Earlier tonight, Trump said we need to completely put a stop to Muslims entering our country until we as a nation figure out what's going on.

Joining us with reaction, Ex-Muslims of North America president Muhammad Syed, from the Islamic House of Wisdom, Imam Mohammed Ali Elahi, and from Act for America, Brigitte Gabriel is with us.

Let me ask you, Mr. Elahi, this question. Donald Trump in his press release saying that we need a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country -- is it or is it not true that there's a clash of cultures, meaning that if you grow up under sharia, where women can't drive, women must dress a certain way, women are treated like second class citizens -- how do you ascertain if that person wants to come here and change their life, or if they want to bring those values with them, which are incompatible with our own Constitution?

IMAM MOHAMMAD ALI ELAHI, ISLAMIC HOUSE OF WISDOM: Well, my answer is if you are looking for entertainment and joke, listen to Mr. Trump and his talks...

HANNITY: Imam, excuse me. Don't be so insulting to people that disagree with you.

ELAHI: Well...

HANNITY: Wait, wait, wait! Sir! Sir, wait a minute!

ELAHI: Sean, we...

HANNITY: Whoa, whoa, whoa!

ELAHI: ... isn't insulting...

HANNITY: Fourteen Americans...


HANNITY: Fourteen Americans, sir, were killed by radicalized Muslims!  So that's not a joke. And him saying that we need to figure out who these people are that we're letting into our country, that's to protect Americans, sir!

ELAHI: If you are...

HANNITY: I don't think that's very funny!

ELAHI: If you are serious about in our fight against terrorism, Sean, I'm sure that we will win this war with the power of unity, power of freedom, power of equality and the eyes of love, as the president said, the laws of the Lord, the laws of...

HANNITY: You didn't address one part of my question!


HANNITY: My question is...

ELAHI: That is the happiest news for the ISIS.


ELAHI: If you want to make ISIS happy, then go ahead with Islamophobia.



HANNITY: I will move on because you don't want to answer my question.  Muhammad Syed, let me ask you this question. I talked about the incompatibility, somebody who grows up under sharia in some of these strict Islamist countries -- how do you ascertain if they want to Americanize, modernize, abide by American constitutional values and assimilate, or if they want to bring their values here and indoctrinate Americans? Because Trump also cited 25 percent of those polled, Center for Security Policy, recent data, that violence against Americans here in the U.S. is justified as part of global jihad.

How do we know who believes that and who doesn't?

MUHAMMAD SYED, PRES. OF EX-MUSLIMS OF NORTH AMERICA: I don't think there's an easy way to distinguish between them. But the problem is that the people that will stop the problem are also among the same population.  I group up in Pakistan. I'm now an ex-Muslim. I'm an atheist. And I'm fighting for secular values for Americans (INAUDIBLE) And by presuming that all Muslims believe in the same thing and have all the same ideas, you're preventing progress from...


HANNITY: But you -- your -- let me throw it to Brigitte, see if she gets it! I am saying if you grow up under sharia, Brigitte, and women can't dress the way they want and they can't drive a car and they can't be seen in public without a male relative, like in Saudi Arabia, are you coming here...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who is talking about sharia...


HANNITY: I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Brigitte.

Brigitte, that to me is a clash of cultures. And I'm saying that unless we can ascertain what the motivation is of people that grow up under that culture, there becomes a great difficulty in whether or not we're willing to gamble with the lives of Americans by letting in people who potentially could be radicalized.

BRIGITTE GABRIEL, ACT FOR AMERICA FOUNDER: Well, we have a great concern in this country right now because radicalized people are killing innocent civilians right now, shooting them at their work stations, shooting them at malls, and we have to be very careful to protect our nation.

And those who are raised in strict Islamist societies, radical Islamic societies, who are taught to hate the infidels and the disbelievers, that we are -- that Islam is superior to all other religions -- this is not compatible with the Constitution and it's not compatible with our values, where we in the Judeo-Christian culture are taught to love, to forgive, to do unto others as you want others done to you.

So we are facing a clash of civilization. And we have to open our eyes and ears and identify those radicalized people coming into our society!

HANNITY: All right, let me ask Mr. Elahi one more question because Donald Trump also in his press release cited the poll that said 51 percent of those polled agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed either by the Constitution, our rule of law, or sharia. Do you agree that Muslims should have the choice in America?

ELAHI: I would say the Muslim community in America is one of the most honorable and educated and contributed...

HANNITY: I just asked you a question!

ELAHI: ... to the society...

HANNITY: I am asking you a question!


ELAHI: ... insulting to question the intention and the action of Muslim community...

HANNITY: Really?

ELAHI: ... who are contributing to this country. They are not -- an Sean, you don't have to...


HANNITY: I'm asking...

ELAHI: ... radical Islam.

HANNITY: For example...

ELAHI: Who is -- who is talking about radical Islam? If you are fighting against terrorism...

HANNITY: Mr. Elahi...


HANNITY: ... let me educate you because...


HANNITY: Clearly, you didn't see what happened and our...

ELAHI: I see...

HANNITY: Let me finish! Our chairman of a Homeland Security Committee today said that ISIS has plans to infiltrate the refugee community. So we saw what happened in Paris, where ISIS infiltrated the refugee community. Explain to every American why we should gamble with their lives if we can't ascertain if a person is a true or honest refugee or if they've aligned themselves with a terror group. Why should we let anybody in if we can't ascertain that?

ELAHI: I would -- I'm saying that we are wasting our time dealing with the effects, not the causes. If you are really serious about that, we have to deal with the Saudi government and those who are supporting the terrorism and supporting al Qaeda and supporting ISIS.

HANNITY: Why should we...


HANNITY: Why should America take in Syrian refugees when the head of Homeland Security in the House is warning us, as is our national director of intelligence and our FBI director -- they're warning us that ISIS will infiltrate and we cannot vet them? Why should Americans take that risk?  Answer that question!

ELAHI: We don't have to, and the Syrians do not want to come to this country just (INAUDIBLE) war over there, but not the way that the president was talking last night. He said, We have to stop ISIS and terrorism in Iraq and Syria through our friends and allies. And I'm so sorry, Mr. President, if Saudi Arabia and Turkey are our allies in fighting against terrorism, we are already failed. Even the Israelis...

HANNITY: All right, Brigitte...

ELAHI: ... cannot be our allies...

HANNITY: ... we'll give you the last word.

ELAHI: ... because they are providing...


GABRIEL: We should not let any refugees into the country, not when we have killers already embedded in these refugees are who are telling us exactly what they want to do! And that is they want to come here and they want to kill us! People ask me all the time, who should we believe. I say believe those who say they want to kill you because they usually follow through!

And I encourage people to go to our Web site. We just launched a campaign called Open Eyes Save Lives. Go to ActforAmerica.org and learn what are the signs that you need to be aware of in your community so you can start protecting your community!

HANNITY: All right, thank you all for being with us. Appreciate your time.

And coming up next tonight on this busy news night on "Hannity"...


JERRY FALWELL, JR., LIBERTY UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: If more good people had concealed carry permits, then we could end (ph) those Muslims before they -- before they walked in and killed us.


HANNITY: Liberty University president Jerry Falwell, Jr., coming under fire for those comments. He'll be here next in a "Hannity" exclusive to respond to his critics.

And then later tonight -- the president thinks disarming you, the American people, will somehow keep them safe from terror threats right here in the homeland. We'll check in with Michelle Malkin and Julie Roginsky.  They're here to respond and debate as "Hannity" continues straight ahead.


HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity." Jerry Falwell, Jr., who is the president of Liberty University, is taking heat for comments that he made about the president's push for more gun control in the wake of the San Bernardino terrorist attack.

Now, Falwell urged his students on Friday to arm themselves when he said this.


JERRY FALWELL, JR., LIBERTY UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: Some of those people in that community center had had what I've got in my back pocket right now...


FALWELL: Is it illegal to pull it out? I don't know.


FALWELL: Anyway, I've always thought if more good people had concealed carry permits, then we could end those Muslims before they walk in and kill us.


FALWELL: So I just wanted to take this opportunity to encourage all of you to get your permit. We offer a free course. And let's teach them a lesson if they ever show up here.


HANNITY: Teach them a lesson if they ever show up here. Here now in a "Hannity" exclusive is the president of Liberty University, Jerry Falwell, Jr. Jerry, good to see you, sir.

FALWELL: Sean, wonderful to be with you.

HANNITY: You know, I made the same comment last week. I said, I had a guest on -- an anti-gun guest. And I know this is where the president and Hillary want to take this. Within -- before we even knew the identity, before these two terrorists were even killed, they were advancing a gun control narrative, which is, you know, in my mind, without any facts, I think it's very irresponsible. But the president did it, Hillary did it and Governor O'Malley did it.

But here's the reality. If you were in the room, if I, as a concealed carry permit holder and a marksman since I'm 11 -- if we were in that room, we might have been able to save lives. What part of this argument don't they seem to get?

FALWELL: It's common sense to me, Sean. I just remember eight years ago, just an hour-and-a-half from Liberty University, the terrible carnage at Virginia Tech. I remember thinking for years after that, What if just one of those students, one of those faculty members had had a concealed carry permit? What if they had been able to stop that shooter before he killed 30-plus lives?

And I just determined after that incident to make sure that Liberty University students were prepared, were able to protect themselves, to have the chance to protect themselves. It's not all students. It's only age 21 and older, faculty and staff. So we don't have a bunch of 18, 19, 20-year- old students running around with handguns.

But it's a policy that's been in place here for several years, and it's worked well for us, and I'm proud that Liberty was one of the only schools to take that position initially. Now dozens have followed suit.  And I think it's common sense. It's where all universities need to go.

HANNITY: By the way, I would argue you are your father's son, being outspoken. But I am a little surprised at the response. Let's go to Hillary Clinton, directed these comments to you, and I want to give you a chance to respond.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Falwell urged his students at Liberty University to actually arm themselves, get concealed carry permits. Your response.

CLINTON:  Well, he also went on -- and don't forget he said this, George. He said, That way, we can take out the Muslims. He said that, OK? This is the kind of deplorable not only hateful response to a legitimate security issue, but it is giving aid and comfort to ISIS and other radical jihadists.


HANNITY: All right, she obviously wanted to take your comments out of context. You were talking about radical Islamists.

FALWELL: I'll tell you what...

HANNITY: Go ahead.

FALWELL: No, I'll tell you what's deplorable is Hillary's a liar.  That's not what I said. I went on to say those Muslims, before they can come in and kill us, referring specifically, if you listen to the first part of my comment, to the community center incident in California.

And if you go back even further in my comments, I started off by talking about how touched my wife and I were watching Fox News the night before or the night after the -- or the night before I was in convocation on Thursday night, and Mike Madden, the first responder, brought my wife to tears. He was just so sincere. And he talked about how deeply affected he was walking in and seeing that carnage and seeing all the -- smelling the gunpowder.

And we just decided right then we were going to contact his office, which we did that night. And I told all the students how we were trying to find out if he had college-aged young people. We wanted to offer them scholarships to come to Liberty. Same thing with the families of the victims.

We now have all the phone numbers and addresses of every single victim who has children, and we're contacting every one of them to offer assistance to their children so that no matter what it takes for them to get a college education, they'll be able to do it here.

And that was the context of my remarks. And then I went on to say that I just could not believe that our president's answer to something so horrific as that is more gun control. That just defies common sense. It defies logic. And I went on to talk about...

HANNITY: Well, that's an important point. You were...

FALWELL: ... how I have my permit. I've had it for...

HANNITY: You were offering scholarships to the victims and their children and their family and stepping up. And I watched that police officer. I had the same reaction. I wanted to cry like your wife. I mean, it was so horrible because he saw the carnage and the blood and all these people shot and many of them killed.

I want to put up on the screen two things from the American Enterprise Institute. I think they say a lot about gun control. Number one, the gun ownership rate from '94 to 2014 versus the homicide rate. Gun ownership has gone up considerably. Homicides have gone down, gun homicides.

And they put our another chart, and that is the number of firearms versus gun homicide rate. As you can see, the homicide rate has gone down and the number of privately owned firearms have gone up.

So obviously, that's the case. And I bring it back to a very simple point. God forbid -- I've been to Liberty University. I've spoken at your convocation. And I can tell you that if anyone ever came in there, I would want to know that there were people there that could stop them before they killed innocent children, before they killed professors.

To me, it's common sense. I'm surprised that she would take your words out of context like that.

FALWELL: Well, she really did. And sadly, at most universities the students would have no action. They would not be allowed to protect themselves. They would not be allowed to have a permit. We've got to change that in America.

I happened to be in a gun store today with my two sons. We were buying some Christmas gifts. And the gun owner told me how he can't keep any guns in his store in the last week, that the gun cases are empty. He said you better buy -- he might have been a good salesman. But he said you better buy one of those right now because there won't be one here tomorrow.  So I did.

HANNITY: Let me ask you one political question. Liberty is playing a huge role in this election. Ted Cruz made his announcement there. You've had many of the candidates speaking at Liberty. Even Bernie Sanders went there. You have a debate scheduled I believe for February at Liberty. So Liberty is playing a very big part in the election cycle which is great for the university. Where do you stand on the political front?

FALWELL: I've got three favorites at this point, Trump, Cruz, and Carson, not necessarily in that order. But those are my three favorites at this point.

HANNITY: Do you see yourself maybe endorsing?

FALWELL: I think Trump remind me so much of my father. He says exactly what he thinks no matter what anybody cares. Carson is so intelligent and so levelheaded. And Cruz is just -- I love Ted Cruz. So I'm still undecided but those are definitely my three favorites.

HANNITY: When you're ready to endorse, we'd love to have you back.  Jerry Falwell, Jr., good to see you. Thanks for being with us. You're right on with that message.

And coming up next, the president continues his demand for more gun control, clearly not understanding this is terrorism. Is this what we should be worrying about? When we come back, Michelle Malkin, Julie Roginsky, they'll debate that.

And then later we will speak with the wife of one of the 14 victims killed in last week's terror attack in a HANNITY exclusive, straight ahead.  


ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: FOX News alert. I'm Adam Housley in Redlands, California, where the investigation continue. We're told that domestically it continues to be a stronger case, I should say, but also the look into the financial situation. Fox News first broke this a couple of days ago about how the financial ties helped investigators early on. We've now learned of a $28,500 deposit into the account of the terrorists. Now, we don't know if that was a loan, if that was funneled to them somehow, but obviously it's one of the key pieces of evidence being looked into.

It comes on a day we also learned the three bombs left at the regional center where the massacre took place were intended to harm the first responders. Thankfully they did not go off, but it was meant to send a signal and at the same time kill more people.

Stay with Fox for all the latest in the growing case. Until then, I'm Adam Housley. Now back to "Hannity."

HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." Now, we just heard from the president of Liberty University, Jerry Falwell Jr., defending his controversial remarks to students about gun control. Here now with reaction, the author of "Sold Out, How High-Tech Billionaires, Bipartisan Beltway Crap Weasels are Screwing America's Best and Brightest Workers," Michelle Malkin, and Democratic strategist, FOX News contributor Julie Roginsky is with us.

A simple question. I know the president wants to divert attention.  This was radical Islamists in our homeland. He still wants Syrian refugees. Our law enforcement and intelligence people say we can't vet them. But here's the question. If you're in the room and I'm in the room with you and Bo Dietl is in the room and Jerry Falwell Jr. is in the room and we're all armed because we all have carry permits, do you want us there or not want us there if somebody is shooting up a roomful of people?

JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The problem is if you're shooting up a roomful of people, and they're shooting up a roomful of people, where am I in the crossfire here? How well trained are you? Are you a police officer? No.

HANNITY: I'm a marksman.

ROGINSKY: But not everybody is.

HANNITY: Well, I'm telling you, I've taught gun safety and I have been proficient in the use of firearms since I'm 11 years old. I'm a lot older than that now. I have had carry permits in New York, Rhode Island, California, Alabama, and Georgia. I've carried a gun more in my adult life more than I haven't carried one. So my question is, do you want me in the room?

ROGINSKY: Here's my question. Do you want me in the room, because I have the same access to guns you would and I have no idea how to shoot anybody. That's the difficulty, Sean.

HANNITY: Michelle, it's not that difficult. I know, Michelle, you would want me in the room. And when they drop their clip and they were reloading, you'd want me to stand up and take them out, wouldn't you?

MICHELLE MALKIN, "SOLD OUT" AUTHOR: No question about it. And of course, I'd want every grown woman in that room to also be trained and armed, and I'm going to make sure that my own daughter who is now a teenager understands that, of course, being armed in self-defense is the great equalizer whether you're talking about defending against a rapist or a jihadist.

And this whole brouhaha over Mr. Falwell's very commonsense and rational remarks just shows you that so much of the culture, the political culture and the media, is far more comfortable in demonizing law abiding Christians who espouse armed self-defense than they are in exposing and calling out jihadists who want to kill us by any means necessary.

HANNITY: Don't you think it's dishonest -- for example, if I ask people that are pro-gun control, OK, what are you going to do if a drug- fueled, raging criminal comes into your house with a gun, what are you going to do to protect your family? They never want to answer the question.

MALKIN: No, they don't.

HANNITY: I think, Julie, it would be foolish not to want me, Bo Dietl, and Jerry Falwell in that room because we can stop it, the killing of innocent men, women, and children. So the reality is this is not the problem. But it's an obfuscation by the president and others.

MALKIN: No question about it. This is not about gun control. The fight against jihad is not about gun control. It's about border control.  It's about jihad control. And we play into the hands of the entire secular progressive left and the gun grabbers by focusing on this rather than the fact that you've got Hillary Clinton out there who has far tougher words than Jerry Falwell Jr. than she does for the jihadists that were responsible for Benghazi who are still on the loose, far tougher words for Jerry Falwell and Christians who are armed in self-defense than she has for all of the jihad-enabling front groups out there from Hamas -- hello?  Let's talk about the real problem here.

HANNITY: And Hillary says, oh, I can't say radical Islam. I don't want to offend people. We're not at war with ISIS. Do you believe that crap? Do you believe that nonsense?

ROGINSKY: Well, I think we are at war with ISIS.

HANNITY: So she's wrong?

ROGINSKY: I agree with her that I don't want to say "radical Islam."

HANNITY: Why not?

ROGINSKY: Because I don't think you can should take an entire religion and tarnish it.

HANNITY: It's not an entire religion. It's a distinction between radicals that have hijacked a religion and are out there killing in the name of Allah.

ROGINSKY: How would you feel if some Muslim, King Abdullah of Jordan or somebody else, some moderate Muslim, came and said the guys that shot up Planned Parenthood was a radical Christian?

HANNITY: I would say you're ill-informed because that was not the case in that guy.

ROGINSKY: Wrong. Of course it was. The guy said that -- the point is this, Sean, you would be offended as a Christian.

HANNITY: No, actually, I don't think there's anyone that's been more outspoken about the corruption in the Catholic Church, Michelle Malkin, than I have been.

   ROGINSKY: That's a different story. Would you want a Muslim saying that.       

HANNITY: I don't care who says it because it's the truth. I can handle the truth, Michelle. I'm not that weak-minded.

MALKIN: Yes. And I would advise Julie to look up the word "Dhimmitude." It's the biggest problem that America's faced since 9/11, 2001, and well before that, because the jihadists have been at war with us for eternity.

HANNITY: Thank you both for being with us. We're out of time.

Coming up, you're going to meet the wife of Nicholas Thalasinos. Her husband was one of the 14 killed during last week's terror attack. That and more as "Hannity" continues.


HANNITY: Welcome back to HANNITY. Joining us now is Jennifer Thalasinos. Her husband Nicolas was one of the victims of the deadly terrorist attack in California. Jennifer, our thoughts and prayers are with you, your husband, your family. I can't imagine how difficult this is for you. Thank you for being with us.


HANNITY: I know this is very tough for you. There had been some reports that your husband and Syed Farook had discussed issues involving radical Islam and Israel. What do you know about that?

THALASINOS: I know my husband discussed religion and Israel with a lot of different people including Syed. And I'm not sure exactly what kind of conversations took place, but as far as I know, they were not huge, heated discussions. If they were, my husband didn't say anything. But as far as I know, up until when this happened there hadn't been any signs that showed he had become radicalized or anything like that.

HANNITY: But he did know Syed. He did have discussions with him.  And I'm sure he knew by that point that he was fairly at least radical in his views if not radicalized?

THALASINOS: My husband knew that Syed was a very devout Muslim. I know they had discussions about Israel in particular and about whether Islam was a religion of peace or not. But my husband wasn't the type to want to like instigate a fight. He would have just had discussions about it. But I know that they completely disagreed on Israel.

HANNITY: Do you believe that maybe your husband was the person targeted by these two people?

THALASINOS: Yes, I do. Because of my husband being a messianic Jew and because of the discussions I think the shooter was intending on getting my husband. I also think some of the other people that were killed were also intended targets because of their religious views and because of discussions they had had with the shooter as well.

HANNITY: And your husband dressed as a messianic Jew. He wore a yarmulke, for example, and did he have any other identifying clothing?

THALASINOS: He didn't wear a yarmulke, but he wore the tassels on the belt loops, and, yes, he also wore the tie clip with a Star of David on it.  So it was pretty obvious he was of some Jewish faith. And like I said, we were messianic Jews.

HANNITY: There was a woman on Facebook that wrote you a note and said "I work at this particular place where your husband worked. I had not met your husband before. I only worked there seven months. We worked in different offices. I need to tell you he played a vital role in my survival. I laid on the floor next to your husband when he had already been injured, and his last words to me were to get under the table, which I did. I wanted you to know how great he was up until the last moment of his life. I am so sorry for your loss. My most sincere condolences. Please let me know if you need anything and God bless you."

I have got to imagine even through all the pain you are living through now that that gives you some degree of comfort that your husband was reaching out to help others.

THALASINOS: It gave me a lot of comfort. I had said from the beginning when I found out that I knew my husband, the type of person he was, he would be trying to help other people. And the fact that he was able to help this woman, I knew that is the type of person my husband was, and I'm just grateful someone was there with him in his last moments.

HANNITY: I hate to even bring this up, but I want to give you an opportunity to respond. There has been some horrible headlines in one of the New York tabloids called "The Daily News" attacking your husband. And the headline was, for example, Linda Stasi is the columnist, and it says "San Bernardino killers were radical ISIS loving monsters, but one victim was just as bigoted." And then as part of a column she said "Thalasinos was an anti-government, anti-Islam, pro-NRA, rabidly anti-Planned Parenthood kind of guy."

Now, to your knowledge has your husband every gone into a room of people and randomly started shooting anybody?

THALASINOS: Of course not. My husband was one of the gentlest people you would have ever met. He was friendly with everybody. Yes, he did have his opinions. He was very conservative. He was very pro-Israel. He was prolife. He was out spoken about that. But he never sought out arguments with people. He was always kind to everybody. And everybody I now that knew him, and I have had people coming up from Facebook and other places that they knew him, people on Facebook that knew him in person that have been talking to me, and they have nothing but good things to say about him.

HANNITY: If you believe he was targeted in this attack because of these discussions with the terrorist Farook, Syed Farook, has law enforcement come to you and asked you anything about this, anything about these discussions?

THALASINOS: They haven't yet, but I did hear on one of the press conferences they had today that the FBI is going to be probably going around to talk to victims' families. So I have a feeling if that is true they'll be coming around to talk to me.  

   HANNITY: I know this is a painful time for you and your family.  Please know that our audience, our thoughts and prayers are with you and your husband, and this should not happen on American soil. We need to keep America safer. Thank you for being with us, and all the best to you.

HANNITY: Thank you so much.

HANNITY: And coming up, our "Ask Sean" segment is next, and we need your help with an important "Question of the Day" straight ahead.


HANNITY: All right, time for the "Question of the Day." Do you think this president understands the nature of the radical Islamic threat? No.  Unfortunately, I do not believe that. I think that was a CYA speech last night and a political speech. Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, on Twitter @SeanHannity and let us know what you think.

Time for our "Ask Sean" segment. One viewer asking, "How will these liberals keep guns from coming across the border when they can't even keep people and drugs out?" Short answer, they can't and they won't, and we'll still have these crimes, and the only people that will be disarmed are law abiding citizens like us. Good question.

That is all the time we have left this evening. As always, thank you for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.

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