This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 3, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I'm Dana Perino and welcome to "The Five." We are learning much more today about yesterday's massacre in California. Here's what we know as of now. The attackers were a married couple, the parents of a 6-month-old baby. The husband, 28-year-old Syed Farook was a U.S. citizen, we now he traveled to Saudi Arabia last year and returned with his 27-year-old wife, Tashfeen Malik. Farook and Malik both stormed the Christmas luncheon yesterday in San Bernardino, firing 65-70 rounds from their rifles, killing 14 and injuring 21. They were later killed themselves in a gun battle with police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunshots, gunshots, gunshots. Oh, oh, they're killing that guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get inside. Close, close the gate. Close the gate.
(Police car siren)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: A dozen pipe bombs were found in their home along with materials to make IEDs. But despite all signs pointing to terrorism, the government isn't ready yet to label it so.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: At this point in time it is literally simply too early to ascribe either a motive or to describe their connections to either groups. We do know that the gentleman who is deceased, the man who is deceased was an employee of the organization having the holiday party. So we don't know as we stated earlier, whether this is workplace rage or something larger, or a combination of both.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Fox's Adam Housley joins us live from San Bernardino with more on this investigation. And Adam, I know you were outside the house. One of the things we don't know a lot about is about the wife. And I -- you've been there today, any information from neighbors or anyone who possibly knew her?
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: No. In fact that's part of the problem the investigators are having. I just spoke to some people very close to this investigation. They say the wife is quote, "A bit of a mystery." And that's making this a bit of a mystery for them. They're getting a lot of information on the husband, as you might imagine, being an American citizen. But they do believe that the she may -- the wife may have had some sort of training. It does -- it makes sense. And the reason why they go with that is that, you know, being in the back of an SUV with an AR-15, and all the obviously, bombs that were found and devices and weaponry. You know, that doesn't happen usually with somebody who doesn't know what they're doing. So they're obviously going down that avenue. And it shows that this investigation not only is expanding here in Southern California, but across the country, for that matter, around the globe.
You mentioned them being in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi embassy said that they were there for nine days. We know that, of course, authority to said Pakistan as well. And the question really remains. Did the wife go to other places? Did they get training? I mean, these are all part of the investigative processes. In fact, behind me -- in fact, the house here in Redlands are just down the street from San Bernardino. You can see they're actually going through their car right now, Dana. And that's being really gone through with a fine-tooth comb by the FBI. And just beyond the car, the residents where they found, you know, these motorized cars with basically bombs on them or little bombs on them and also pipe bombs and all sorts of materials. You know we got tipped off about this last night. I have to be honest, when we were first told that this was being found inside, well before authorities ever admitted it, we were a bit concerned, because it's not something you would expect, obviously. Especially, when they wouldn't rule out terrorism, but they also wouldn't rule out workplace violence. But it does go to show why they haven't ruled out terrorism, why the joint terrorism task force is involved here and why the search is really expanding around the globe, Dana.
PERINO: All right. Kimberly Guilfoyle has got a question for you.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hi, Adam. Great coverage for us, thanks very much, a lot of reports coming out and obviously, the FBI taking a close look at this investigation. Having some of the most disturbing aspects where the neighbors saw, that unusual kind of activity, people going in and out, quite a few men going in and out of the place. You've got that combined with some phrasing that they said this was like an IED factory with those radio-controlled cars, that type of thing, pipe bombs and some of the stuff like what we saw with the Tsarnaev brothers. What else are you hearing that along those lines? Because it really begs the question, was this just one isolated incident or were there other things in play and at work?
HOUSLEY: Well, I do know this. I mean, last night they said that when the JT, when a Joint Terrorism Task Force got here, JTTF got here and also other investigative agencies as well, they right away looked into that. I mean, that's obviously a very strong concern for them. Especially, when they found out that this individual had come or they had gone to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and potentially other places as well. So right away, they're looking, OK, are they part of a larger terror network? Is this even terrorism? I mean, there's a lot of sensitivity there as you know. And that's one reason why when you talk to investigators, they tell you, "Listen, we got to make sure we get this right the first time. We don't want to make any mistakes here." Was this a -- was that a meeting or that Christmas party a catalyst? I mean, there are a lot of other things involved. But as they told me, "you don't just do this spontaneous." They told us last night way before the sheriff, or the police chief came out and said that. You know, you don't show up with pipe bombs. You don't put that kind of gear on. You don't have those motorized cars spontaneously, because you're upset about work. And that's one reason why they're very concerned here, and then rightfully so. But does it mean other people involved? No. But they are looking at every single avenue. We've hear of searches taking place in other parts of the Southern California area. Does it directly connect to this? Again, not sure, and they're not going to tell us all those things because it's part of the investigative process, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I'm looking for known associates as well, people that perhaps could have been accomplices or part of the larger group.
GUILFOYLE: Working in concert together.
PERINO: All right, Eric Bolling.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Yeah, I sure -- and first of all, Adam, great job as well, I agree. You had some great people to talk to last night on the street. But I'm trying to figure out why we're afraid of calling it terror, because it looks like terror, sounds like terror, and it bleeds terror. There are reports that there's a radicalization that went on at some point. I'm -- this is - that's not my question. My question is there any discussion about where these two individuals got the money to pay for all of this. Apparently, it costs somewhere around $25,000 to $30,000, this equipment. Kimberly pointed out.
BOLLING: The pipe bombs, the IEDs, the IED factory.
BOLLING: The gins, the ammunition. This guy made $40,000 or $45,000 a year on a civil servants salary. That's a lot of money to be spending on all this equipment. It will beg the question, is there a financial supporter for all this?
HOUSLEY: Absolutely, Eric. Great question, that's a word -- that's one of the avenues we're going down today. Obviously, yesterday we don't have time to go there, it was also late in the evening. That's the avenue we've been asking questions about today. And that's also the reason why they say this woman is mysterious, because they are going on the same avenues. They can go into the bank accounts now that obviously, privacy issues are gone, they're dead. So that helps them actually get into some of these bank accounts, if that's the case, and follow the money. I mean, that's one of the avenues they have to go down. They have to follow the money. And Eric, I do want to touch really quickly on the idea of not calling this terrorism. I have to tell you, I talked to the investigators, and I asked that question. Listen, I mean, if it looks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. You know what, why you press them like? And you know, you got these people with multiple pipe bombs, you have a base there, factory in this behind us. You had, pipe bombs with them with extra magazines on the person when they were in the SUV, I mean, you had the horror they caused at the center. I mean, this isn't a spontaneous -- and they said that, not me. This isn't a spontaneous attack. But for all of us covering this, obvious as well. And it is the reason why is nowadays, the FBI is -- has a very specific and very narrow definition of terrorism. It's the whole semantics things that we're in now and in the last six or eight years. Especially, it's various -- they're very semantic -- they believe based on semantics. So that definition of terrorism is very specific, and they want to make sure that it's specifically that definition. Because if it's not, then they have a lot of other things they have to deal with on the political side of things. So for them, they want to make sure that they have it exactly, and they know was it a situation where they were planning a terror attack and then this was a catalyst? I mean there are a lot of variables there that they want to make sure they get correct, Eric
BOLLING: Thank you.
PERINO: All right, Gutfeld.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It's the prudence that wasn't shown last week with the other shooting at Planned Parenthood, where everybody was calling that terror, immediately. And it's interesting that they won't, they won't rule out workplace violence. I'm wondering if they're going to rule out climate change, since they believe that climate change leads to terror, who knows. Adam, I was wondering about this dispute. Is -- was that dispute basically, it sounds to me like a red herring that could have allowed this guy to leave early and it looks normal that he's leaving?
HOUSLEY: Well, I'll tell you first of all that the investigators and a lot of people involved in this case at the lower levels, Greg, are just as frustrated about what happened in other investigation and this one as you guys are. I mean, they want to be able to say certain things in a certain way, but because it don't has to go up the chain of command and then they have to follow obviously rules because of possible mistakes, and all that kind of stuffs. They're just as frustrated in a lot of cases, just as you know. As for the red herring, it could be. Because I know behind the scenes that the federal agents were a little upset with the police department and the police chief, because -- for example, the last press conference last night, he didn't even toss to them to comment on anything, which he was supposed to do, and he was really hanging it on this supposed argument. But then there are also witnesses say there was no argument at all. He was there, as they put -- he chased the place, even though he knew what he meant, he went to kind to see the place out, sat down for awhile and then left. Some insisting that it could be -- you're looking at for making insuring it was a soft target. Others say there was a confrontation. It really comes down to people out different. Well, you and I both see an accident, we're going to see it a different way. So the federal agents aren't sold at all, that there was some sort of disagreement. Just so you know.
PERINO: All right, Juan Williams.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Adam, I was wondering about the fact that they were -- you had this GoPro camera. They had the armored vests. I mean, this -- they had so many of these kinds of preparations for a serious attack. I'm told now there was no GoPro camera. But it just struck me, as the question is when did they make these purchases? When did they get these items, do we know?
HOUSLEY: Well, there -- that's one thing they can track. They won't tell us, obviously. We know the neighbors around here say is, that the apartment, the stuff was coming into is right over there, over my shoulder, with that white car on. Where, you know, you'll see the actual window blown out or knocked out, and you'll see the investigative process in the car right in front of it. You know, as for the tactical vests, I mean, as you know -- when you see things from a distance, it might look like there's armor on them, and when we get close we realize it was just a tactical vest, no armor. That's an easy thing to understand. There still some -- honestly, some discrepancy about whether or not there were GoPros or cameras there. You know, as you know in situations like this, they had a lot of stuff in that truck. They pulled a lot of stuff out of that shot-up SUV. And I still people insisting that they were -- it's you know, that's a situation where we did it really matter, we don't know. It could mean nothing. So at this point, we're going to focus on what the things we do know and what do mean things, and that is the fact they had massive weaponry. Juan, as you talk about. They got the stuff from somewhere, as Eric suggested. Where did they get the money? And who do they know? Who else did they contact? You know where did they get the weapons? They obviously bought the weapons legal. But remember, while the weapons were legal, the clips were not legal. In California, you only can have a 10-clip and you have to have a special button on it. Those were 30 clips, no button. So while they had some things that were legal, they had obviously stuff that weren't legal and it's obviously weren't worried about laws when they were building pipe bombs. So there are a lot -- and then you had the possible international connections. So there are a lot of avenues to have to go down here in a very short time. And remember, we're just basically 24 hours away. It was a little more on that from when all this happened.
WILLIAMS: But Adam, you said that in fact, California has strict gun control laws, but they were in violation of some of them. Do we know when the guns were purchased?
HOUSLEY: We do. And that's part of the investigative process today. We're actually working out of it, as you know, there are a lot of -- we're trying to work on as well. There's some suggestions where the guns were purchased and when and times, and that kind of thing. We're trying to basically get all of that out. You know, all different agencies are reporting a lot of different things. Some agencies were saying they weren't wearing masks -- they were wearing masks. I can tell you that we were up with reported at all pretty much come true. And as for where the guns were purchased, we're not just ready to say that yet, because we don't know that yet for sure. But we're told by authorities, those two weapons, at least the AR's and the pistols we believe were bought legally. But obviously, you know, I don't know how much when it comes to how many rounds you're allowed to have. I don't know what that law is, honestly, but I do know the clips were illegal.
PERINO: All right. Adam, thank you so much. We will continue to watch your excellent coverage.
The shooting in San Bernardino quickly turned political, the left pushing for stricter gun control, even going as far as to mock those asking for prayers for the victims. That's next, stay tuned.
BOLLING: Welcome back. After every mass shooting in America, there's a renewed push from the left for more gun control. President Obama wasted no time to politicize this latest tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: We have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world. And there are some steps we could take not to eliminate every one of these mass shootings, but to improve the odds that they don't happen as frequently, common sense gun safety laws, stronger background checks. We should come together in a bipartisan basis, at every level of government, to make these rare, as opposed to normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Steps we can take to eliminate mass shootings. I have a few, but they're probably not the same ones you're thinking of, Mr. Obama. But politicizing tragedy as it unfolds isn't new for democrats. Just before the shooting, Hillary Clinton was pushing gun control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, CO-HOST: Ninety Americans a day die from gun violence, homicides, suicides, tragic avoidable accidents, 33,000 Americans a year die.
CLINTON: It is time for us to say -- we're going to have comprehensive background checks, we're going to close the gun show loophole. We're going to close the online (ph) loopholes. Close the Charleston loopholes and the immunity for the gun makers and sellers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: All right.
BOLLING: And then right after the shooting happened, she tweeted this, "I refuse to accept this as normal. We must take action to stop gun violence now." But that's not the worst of it. Just look at this despicable cover on the New York Daily News today, mocking GOP presidential candidates and the Speaker of the House for offering prayers for the victims with this rebuke "God isn't fixing this." K.G., Obama, Hillary, the vast left-wing wilderness uses tragedy to defeat the Second Amendment. And they need chance they can -- your thoughts on this one?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean it's just despicable. So why isn't it completely appropriate to look to prayer, to look to God, and in times like this, especially with tragic loss of life? And instead, it's shameful behavior on their part where they're trying to politicize this to fit this it into their ideology and the narrative that they want to assess. Nothing that Hillary Clinton just said has anything to do with stopping what happened yesterday in San Bernardino. None of it would have changed the outcome. So she is actually misleading the public, the country, and trying to demonize people that are lawful, abiding Second Amendment gun owners in this country. Her comments and her inflammatory rhetoric, I think should just eliminate her even from contention as somebody who has an idea about what's going on in this country and about national security and foreign policy, because she's just completely confused.
BOLLING: Juan, is God isn't fixing this? And this has been around the internet all day and night, just on the Daily News. Is it about prayer and God, or is it about the left wanting to force gun control down everyone's throats?
WILLIAMS: The left doesn't want to force it. I think most Americans. It's overwhelming. Most Americans think that what Hillary Clinton just said is right. You can close gun show loopholes. You can do more in terms of limiting the availability of assault and military-type weapons to people who want to buy guns. You can do more in terms of controlling.
BOLLING: That wasn't an automatic weapon. Those were.
WILLIAMS: Those were assault weapons.
BOLLING: They were semiautomatic.
BOLLING: Their -- they were.
WILLIAMS: They were basically the kind of thing that the military -- it's almost like an AK-47, is that it wasn't improperly loaded.
BOLLING: But Juan, it's a semiautomatic.
WILLIAMS: But anyway, my point.
BOLLING: Somehow, you would have to eliminate shot guns for the --
WILLIAMS: Let me finish the point.
BOLLING: If you're going to make.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Let me finish this point to you, though. I think to the contrary, I think it's their right to politicize it. I think it's the NRA who politicizes it and stops the republicans in Congress who offer properly, these platitudes about God.
BOLLING: President Obama.
GUTFELD: All right.
WILLIAMS: But Eric.
BOLLING: President Obama, as they.
WILLIAMS: Let us do something for safety.
BOLLING: As they still investigating -- bodies was -- bodies were still laying in the streets in San Bernardino, and President Obama brought up gun control.
GUTFELD: This is a recurring -- they took the war on terror and they turned it into a war on immigration. They see the war on terror and they turn it into a gun control issue. By turning this into a gun issue, Juan, you pay less attention to the real threat. This is not about mass shooting. This was an act of terrorism. It's saying it's a mass shooting, tells America to worry less about perhaps, the biggest, greatest threat to civilization, the threat that's going to affect your grandkids, Juan, long after you're gone. They may not make it because of this threat. This act splits the politics into two camps. You have one that screams for mass shootings, this is mass shootings. You have another that says Islamic terror. So let's do the math. Which is worse? A mass shooter in the end is self-limiting. They will shoot a lot of people. In the end, they either commit suicide or they are shot, it's finite, it's over until another one happens. However, a terrorist, when they create an act, it's to create a further act to get a greater terror, to get a mass movement to create apocalypse.
GUILFOYLE: To feed jihad.
GUTFELD: The idea is that it's not self-limiting. Terrorism is not self- limiting, it is expanding. So if you're doing math, you're doing straight math. Mass shootings -- you're talking about dozens of people. I'm talking about a factor of 10, a factor of 100. So I understand you're concerned over mass shootings, but the concerned over mass death, the concerned of radical Islam dwarfs that. This is a fight for our civilization. And every single time a leader turns it into something else, it screws us over.
WILLIAMS: I'm not turning it into something else. I'm willing to acknowledge if it's proven that this was terror, that it was terror.
GUTFELD: It's obvious that was terror, Juan.
WILLIAMS: But here is the point.
BOLLING: How is this not terror?
WILLIAMS: Hang on, but what my point to you is.
BOLLING: But my definition was this fall under.
WILLIAMS: Every day in America, we have many more people killed by guns than were killed yesterday, in fact yesterday.
GUTFELD: OK. Let me correct you on that.
WILLIAMS: In Atlanta and Georgia someone was shot.
GUTFELD: Let me correct you on that.
WILLIAMS: And three others killed. Even you don't want to mention that.
GUTFELD: Let me correct you on that. According to John Lott.
WILLIAMS: Go ahead.
GUTFELD: More people died in Paris shootings this year, than the entire admit during the administration, the Obama administration and over 500 people maimed or murdered in Paris since last year.
GUTFELD: No, let me finish. Gun violence is declining dramatically over the last two decades. So this is the wrong battle. When you group everything under mass shootings, you're using gang violence. You're using homicide. You're using suicide.
GUTFELD: You're using accidents.
WILLIAMS: In other words.
GUTFELD: That is different. That is different than a suicide (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Easy access to guns.
GUTFELD: Suicide (inaudible) who destroy (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: yeah, yeah, but let me just say that in my neighborhood when people drive by and shoot and kill, right? You say wait a second, why, how did they get these guns? Where these guns.
GUTFELD: And why you are proving it with suicides?
WILLIAMS: I'm telling you, people who have guns, where you saying that you favor suicide? You think we should give out guns for people to shoot themselves?
GUTFELD: No, let me finish first. Let me finish it, Juan.
GUILFOYLE: That is not what he said, and he knows that.
GUTFELD: I wish. I wish I was wrong on this and I wish you were right, because I can deal with mass shootings. But the apocalyptic threat or radical Islam is so scary that out president and he acknowledge it.
WILLIAMS: But it doesn't have to be one of the other.
WILLIAMS: I acknowledge it. What is wrong?
GUTFELD: No, the point is..
WILLIAMS: I acknowledge it.
GUTFELD: When you wish you were wrong, you know you're right.
BOLLING: All right.
GUTFELD: Because the reality is so frightening, you can't face it.
BOLLING: Then let me just get Dana, and your quick thought. President Obama's timing on this stuff. I mean, tone-deaf.
PERINO: Well, I understand his -- I understand the pressure for a president to comment immediately, and for candidates to comment immediately. And to comment quickly without ever knowing the facts that the most important thing you can do as a leader is to be restrained and to wait, because now it looks foolish. Because this was not the same situation as what happened in Connecticut or in -- and I am -- I understand the president is very frustrated because he feels like he has to deal with this. When the staff comes in and says, Mr. President, we need to update you on a situation. And he feels immediately like he has to gun control. This other thing on this cover, the God isn't fixing this. Remember, this goes back to the less whole thing and President Obama leading the charge in 2008 with, you know, people clinging to Gods and guns.
Here's the thing for me on the prayer issue and on faith. Faith informs my life and I don't judge anybody for how faith informs their life. But I know that I work for a president who said every day, that he started his day with prayer. He lived his life with prayer. He made decisions based on prayer. And that he could feel when others were praying for him and that it sustained him and gave him strength. And I think that making fun of people for actually calling for something that you know, and if it informs your faith, if you think that prayer actually helps you and could give some sort of comfort to people who are in the middle of a terrorist attack in their own country, that this is actually very shameful for The New York Daily News.
GUTFELD: Can I say one thing, one thing, please. If you look at this, what does it say? It says God isn't fixing this. If they had any balls, they would have said Allah.
WILLIAMS: You know what they should have said? They should say God helps those who help themselves in the United States of America.
GUTFELD: That's not The Daily News, Juan.
WILLIAMS: For not doing anything about the widespread use of guns.
PERINO: Actually, you could say.
PERINO: Policies are causing this.
BOLLING: All right.
GUILFOYLE: This is nothing to do with guns and you know it. Don't even sit there and be.
GUILFOYLE: This has to do with terrorism.
GUTFELD: Pipe bomb.
GUILFOYLE: It's happening in the United States.
GUTFELD: They were using pipe bombs.
GUILFOYLE: And an administration that is.
GUILFOYLE: Reluctant to call it radical Islamic terrorism.
BOLLING: Don't get sucked into this. This isn't about saying we shouldn't pray or pray to God or prayer isn't fixing this. This is all about gun control. That's what this is.
GUTFELD: It should say Allah isn't fixing this.
BOLLING: I got to leave it right there.
This attack hasn't yet been connected to terror, but there are very concerning reports that hundreds of Americans are actively helping ISIS right now, details on that, coming up next on The Five.
GUTFELD: Still overheated over Juan.
GUTFELD: All right. Researchers now claim ISIS is using Twitter to recruit Americans. Roughly 250 have taken the bait so far. The catch includes teenage girls, college kids, an Army vet, a dog named Jasper.
GUTFELD: But it's no longer the world, you see. It's actually us. Through a combination of ideology and technology, terror has grown a new face. Evil needs no air force to cause mass death. All it needs is a drone, a man and anthrax. It's not a palindrome, but the plan.
Which is why Rubio has it over Cruz on surveillance and Donald Trump agrees, saying that "when the world would like to destroy us as quickly as possible, I err on the side of security." It's true.
But again, it's not just the world. Today killers are often homegrown. They are the new needles. And to spot a needle, you need tools to sift through the haystack. Sadly, that's miscast as infringing on privacy. A mistake born from a zero-sum fallacy regarding freedom and security.
We have freedom because of security, the Second Amendment, our military, rule of law, even the luck of our oceans around us provide us with security that has their own benefits and limits to our freedoms: The oceans make it tough for ISIS to get here, but I also can't drive to England.
The new reality is we aren't dealing with China, North Korea or old-school USSR. Mutually assured destruction mattered to them. But to a suicide cult, they're dying for it. Until we embrace the tools to engage the new enemy, we will die with them.
So this is the largest number of terror arrests since 9/11, Kimberly. The largest number. What does that tell you?
GUILFOYLE: Yes. It tells me that terror is alive and healthy and thriving in the climate of ignorance. And a climate of reluctance to even label it what it is. You have people that, yes, are afraid to see something, say something, because they don't want to as a neighbor said they're racially profiling. Hurt anyone's feelings.
Instead they're focusing on inanimate objects like guns, creating hysteria that is misplaced in this country, instead of focusing on security and enabling us to have the tools that we need to be able to prevent the gun or the crockpots or the pressure cookers or the pipe bombs from being utilized.
GUTFELD: K.G., I'm glad you brought up the neighbor, because I have tape of the neighbor to these terrorists, not workplace violencers, who didn't want to call the police or do anything because he didn't want to appear Islamophobic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had -- I guess were receiving packages, quite a few packages within a short amount of time. And that they were actually doing a lot of work out in the garage. And she was kind of suspicious and was -- wanted to report it. But she said I -- she didn't want to profile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Dana, this is what I call Islamophobia-phobia. Fear of being accused of having Islamophobic feelings. And it actually prevents people from doing the right thing.
PERINO: Right, so you know, see something, say something. It actually should mean something.
PERINO: That should mean something. And hopefully, I know that there's reluctance to rat on your neighbor for every little thing. But I mean, at this point, I think the authorities, we have to give them the tools that they need in order to try to protect us. Who knows what they might have been able to uncover, if something just happened to -- an officer knocks on the door and says, "Hey, what's going on here?"
PERINO: You know?
GUILFOYLE: But she's right: You can do it anonymously, too. I mean, there's plenty of tools within the law enforcement arsenal to be able to investigate, check people out, even if you call in a tip like that. And then find out: are they on a watch list of any sort? Have they been in correspondence on forums?
PERINO: Or travelled to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.
GUTFELD: But Eric, let's say you do call in and you're wrong. Then you will be shamed.
BOLLING: By whom?
GUTFELD: By the left?
BOLLING: People who perpetrated this fear, the fear of being called a profiler or Islamophobist. New face of terror. This is big. A woman, 26- year-old, 27-year-old woman, married...
PERINO: With a baby.
BOLLING: ... with a baby. Hands her 6-month off -- -old to a grandmother and then goes commit jihad. This is all new.
Fifth graders in New Jersey plotting to blow up a high school in New Jersey. This is brand new. This is a new world we're embarking on.
I called my son this afternoon. I said, "You're going to think I'm an idiot. I don't care. If you see anything that's out of the normal, pick up the phone and call the cop. Call me. I'll call a cop for you."
We have to now. We have to be vigilant and diligent and see something, say something. Absolutely. And don't care if you're profiling and don't care if you're called Islamophobic or whatever they want to call you.
GUTFELD: We have one person here, who actually -- you reaped the consequences of, actually, this kind of behavior, right?
WILLIAMS: What do you mean?
GUTFELD: When -- didn't you write a piece about being on a plane?
GUTFELD: You lost your job!
WILLIAMS: You know, the thing is -- the thing I've seen here is I don't agree with the idea of stereotyping or just everybody reporting on everybody. I don't think that's America. I do think you have to be responsible, see something, say something.
But I think that it extends back to our argument in the previous segment, the idea that there are all these guns around, and that you have a situation where even now, you can be on a no-fly list that you're talking about and still go out and buy a gun, which I think is nuts.
GUTFELD: You know, what's interesting about humanity and guns. Guns don't ascribe to an ideology that says if you kill a lot of people, you will get 72 virgins. That's the difference.
WILLIAMS: You seem...
GUTFELD: A Prius or a pipe bomb can be deadly in the hands of a radical Muslim.
WILLIAMS: You know what, though? You can't give up America and all of our principles and constitutional protections and say, "This is it. This is it. This is it."
You have got to say very clearly, this is why Republicans voted with Democrats to say the Patriot Act went too far. We do have to have civil liberties and protect our rights, even as we fight the bad guys. We shouldn't become the bad guys.
GUILFOYLE: Don't lay down Americans to be slaughtered with this weak ideology of pacifism.
WILLIAMS: Or weak gun control laws.
GUILFOYLE: Pathetic. Pathetic.
Spill more blood.
GUTFELD: K.G. coming in with a punch at the end. All right.
Many heroes came to the rescue of the victims yesterday in California and took out those two shooters before they could kill anyone else. Just another reminder of how much police lives matter. Next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: East San Bernardino, shots fired! We need a BearCat! We need medical aid!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: That dramatic audio captured on the local police scanner at San Bernardino's brave law enforcement officers, pursued two married suspects who just killed more than a dozen people and were now firing at them.
It's times like these that remind us all how lucky we are to have heroes like those who will risk their own lives to keep us safe. Just watch and listen to this officer who valiantly led a group of frightened victims at the Inland Regional Center to safety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands where I can see them. All of the way to that deputy. You're going to make a left where the deputy is at.
After you. Thank you. Try to relax. Everyone try to relax. I'll take a bullet before you do, that's for damn sure, so be cool, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Two officers were injured yesterday, but thankfully, they are both going to be OK.
Now this afternoon San Bernardino's police chief spoke about the bravery of his team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARROD BURGUAN, SAN BERNARDINO CHIEF OF POLICE: I'll tell you, as the chief of this agency, I'm incredibly proud of the way that our folks responded. Not only the initial response here, and the help that we got from our local and regional partners, but for the way that they also engaged in that officer-involved shooting. That was nothing short of heroic. I'm extremely proud of the way that they handled that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And by the way, fantastic police work catching these suspects, even long after the crime had been committed. They were able to chase them down, identify them and take them out. I mean, that is really incredible.
When you think about the job that they did there. Under those very difficult circumstances. And thank goodness that the police had the proper equipment that they needed to be able to handle this there, because so much of this strategy has also been about taking stuff away from the cops. We don't want to militarize the police. It makes people upset and makes them feel like rioting, like we heard about that.
BOLLING: All afternoon you're watching the coverage, and you're talking about, OK, here's the crime scene. They seemingly vanished into thin air. No one knew where they were going to be. There was the 10 and the 215 freeways are right there. There's an airport a few miles away. And you're thinking how farthest these people could have gotten.
And then all of a sudden, you've got the helicopters fixed on an SUV, and the cops are shooting into it and they're taking down -- you're like, how did they do that? Fantastic police work.
BOLLING: Can I make one other point? If you look at the -- listen, cops are doing a great job, and there's a lot going on. I know this whole information thing is really important. You don't want to get it wrong.
But wow, that San Bernardino police chief and that whole crew there, getting the information out the way they got it out, that was absolutely professional. It's amazing the way they did it. A lot of other times you're waiting. You don't know what to do. And the people in San Bernardino who don't know what their situation, what their risk levels were. They solved a lot of that. They kept people calm. That was fantastic police work from top to bottom, all the way to the streets.
GUILFOYLE: So true, and that video was so compelling to see it last night when people record things like that. That is a perfect example of police putting it on the line every day and night. When they get up in the morning, they you know, get dressed, put it on. No matter what people are saying about them, they don't sit there and wear their, you know, feelings on their sleeve. They go in to protect and serve, and that's what they did yesterday.
PERINO: They were doing a drill yesterday morning, actually using some of this equipment that they ended up having to use in actual practice later in the day. So that's an important thing to learn.
But I also think that, as good as the police work is, where we have to focus, I believe is on the intel side. In order to help prevent these from happening. This couple was under the radar, able to acquire all of these weapons and to plot and plan this attack. We have to figure out a way to be better to help police disrupt these attacks before they happen.
GUILFOYLE: Exactly. It's all about preempting. We love the heroism. But we've also got to make sure that police don't have to put themselves in those positions, because we're doing a job, and it's part of being the fabric of the community, Greg, if you see something, to be able to report it and to also make sure we put pressure on our government and elected officials to maintain programs that are helping law enforcement and intelligence against terror.
GUTFELD: Absolutely. I just want to contrast the behavior here, this instinct to stop and save lives to take a bullet. With the instinct you're seeing now on campuses, the idea of the safe space. Here, we have a human being who will take a bullet and a human being that can't take a word.
And people might think this is a false comparison. But actually, the contrast is important, because it's showing you a strange direction of a country away from action and more for passivity. We need to transfer the heroism of the police in this public sector to the private sector. To teach people how to think this way. That many can stop a few, even if the few is armed.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Juan.
WILLIAMS: I just think, you know, there's no getting away from the idea that, boy, thank God for the police yesterday. And I thought they did an excellent job. I thought that they were -- they closed down large sections of San Bernardino, which I didn't understand, because I didn't know where these guys had gone. And it looked like, hey, they disappeared into thin air. That created anxiety.
But I will say we can't use this moment somehow to distract or diminish or excuse controversies about the police in Chicago or elsewhere. That's not what this is about. That's politicizing this issue and trying to make it into something that it's not.
GUILFOYLE: No one's saying we should do that. But you just did it right here.
WILLIAMS: No, because you had done it at the start of this segment.
GUILFOYLE: No, I didn't, all right? Don't ruin it, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Why bring up the facts, I know. I know.
GUTFELD: You're like the guy who breaks wind in an elevator.
WILLIAMS: I know. Boo.
GUILFOYLE: Next, we're going to go live to Washington where Catherine Herridge has the very latest on the federal investigation, into these suspects and their motives and their travel to the Mideast. Stay tuned. You don't want to miss it.
WILLIAMS: Back to the investigation into the husband-and-wife team that opened fire on a group of workers at a Christmas luncheon yesterday. Chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge has the latest from Washington.
Catherine, very quickly, what about the wife? Everybody is very curious about that. And very curious about ISIS saying that "The lions did us proud." What is that? Does that mean ISIS is taking responsibility?
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Look, the bottom line with this couple today is that we learned Syed Farook had been in contact with people. The FBI had been tracking. But he had contact with them after those terrorism investigations closed.
So he kind of slipped through the net of the FBI, same sort of field we had with the Tsarnaev brothers. The couple was in Saudi Arabia in the sum of 2014. They got married at Mecca. Then they came back here and, based on our reporting, were married in Riverside, California, in July of last year.
The third thing is that the wife is really key here. The people I've spoken to privately today have questioned whether she was, like, throwing gasoline on the fire of radicalization and that she was the one who tipped him towards violence and then ultimately terrorism -- Juan.
WILLIAMS: And the business about ISIS and what they had to say about the lions roaring and all that and #AmericaBurns.
HERRIDGE: Right. Look, the key thing with the ISIS propaganda today is they are cheering any kind of acts of violence in the United States. That they have not claimed responsibility. And actually, the forensic evidence with those pipe bombs, the detonation mechanism, uses these remote- controlled toy cars. That's a signature of al Qaeda in Yemen. And their online magazine Inspire, which is like a Martha Stewart Living for would-be jihadists, and teaches them how to make bombs. So you have propaganda from ISIS, but no claim of responsibility and physical evidence that points to al Qaeda in Yemen.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So what else are we learning now about where the direction that the FBI investigation is going to go?
HERRIDGE: Look, they're very focused on this relationship. I was told that they're piecing together a timeline of the relationship, also their travels in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan with a specific focus on their network of contacts.
They recovered today thumb drives, computers, also cell phones. They're being brought back here to Washington, D.C. And they're going to be exploited at the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia. That's like a specialty area, and that also tells you that this really is a high-priority case for the bureau.
BOLLING: Catherine, there was some reporting today that some of the detonation devices on the IEDs could be traced back to al Qaeda. Is there any truth to that, any link, direct link?
HERRIDGE: I think this is a very important data point, because these remote-control toy parts that are used as detonators are not that typical. And you typically see them in these al Qaeda-like devices.
So the Boston Marathon bombers used these pressure cooker bombs, and the FBI concluded they learned how to make them through this Inspire magazine, which comes out of al Qaeda.
We see something similar with these devices. The quantity of the devices is also important, because it speaks to someone who was bomb-making technique and familiarity. Not to have an accident with that many explosives. So this, the bombs themselves point to A.Q. Though ISIS has been kind of ripping off their instructions on the web and distributing them to their followers.
PERINO: I think I have a quick question. I hope it is. Inspire magazine. If we know that it is basically published in Yemen. Why hasn't a drone flown over that location and destroyed it?
HERRIDGE: Right. Look, I always like to say that is when they use a drone strike to kill Anwar al-Awlaki, who was the leader of -- operational leader of al Qaeda in Yemen back in 2011. You know it's one thing to kill a man. It's another thing to kill his ideas. It's just not that simple to take out the production facility for one of these online magazines, because it pops up somewhere else.
But al Qaeda in Yemen has really set the template for using social media and the Internet as a way to drive recruitment and to also spread their ideas and to spread their techniques.
So in this particular case, you can see that the devices in California had the same M.O. of these devices that had been used by al Qaeda followers in other parts of the world.
WILLIAMS: No question. Gregory?
GUTFELD: Just real quick, FBI were tracking, had been tracking this guy. How did they reach a dead end on this? Like, how does that happen?
HERRIDGE: Well, maybe I was not clear. They were not tracking him. They discovered after the shooting that he had been in contact with individuals. The FBI had been investigating in terrorism cases. But here's sort of the key point. He had contact with these suspicious individuals after the FBI had closed their investigations into these people.
So it's like a timing issue, right? They look at this group. They decide to close the cases, and then Syed Farook has contact with them after the fact. It really feels a lot like Boston. Remember the Tsarnaev brothers...
HERRIDGE: ... were on the FBI's radar. They closed the case. And then he launched that bombing.
WILLIAMS: Catherine, thank you so much.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
WILLIAMS: Some final thoughts coming up next.
PERINO: All right. Some closing thoughts in our final moments here tonight. Kimberly, we'll start with you.
GUILFOYLE: The first thing I want to think about is take a moment to say a prayer for the people that lost their lives, OK, just tragically yesterday in the face of terrorism, and for the police department that really came together to, I think, inspire us about the great job that law enforcement does every single day.
And the last thing is to just make sure that in this country we don't cripple ourselves by not having the tools and the resources necessary to combat violent extremism and jihad in America, because it's here.
PERINO: Juan Williams.
WILLIAMS: I just want us to be overly political about this, because in this year, 2015, we've seen South Carolina, Oregon, Colorado Springs and now San Bernardino. And I think that President Obama is right, and it says other countries just don't have the high frequency of these kinds of attacks. And we, as Americans, can get beyond the politics, and do something.
PERINO: All right. Eric Bolling?
BOLLING: I mentioned it earlier. I did call my son, he's 17. He's in high school. It's a good idea. Sit down with your kids, talk to them and let them know that this isn't something that happens over there. It's something that could happen here and again, millions of more eyeballs on the issue, not a bad thing.
PERINO: Greg Gutfeld.
GUTFELD: This is a new era. The morally blunt response of our administration calls for revolution of the same, which means it's up to every single law-abiding citizen to train, prepare themselves against this battle. It's either that or you will die.
PERINO: I'll just wrap it up by saying that I think that prayers are needed maybe more than ever. And I do think they sustain people, and especially we should pray for our law enforcement and intelligence community as they work to try to protect us from terrorists who are hell- bent on destroying us.
That's it for us. Stay tuned for new developments throughout the night on the shootings in San Bernardino. "Special Report" is next.
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