This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," December 2, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, a massive investigation and manhunt following the nation's worst mass shooting since Newtown.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Moments ago, we learned two of the suspects are now dead. One of them is a woman. The FBI revealing moments ago, this may have been terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BOWDICH, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE OF LOS ANGELES FIELD OFFICE: Go down this road. This is America, not a sprint. I know one of the big questions that will come out repeatedly is, is this terrorism. And I'm still not willing to say that we know that for sure. We are definitely making some movements that it is a possibility. We are making some adjustments to our investigation. It is a possibility, but we don't know that yet. And we're not willing to go down that road yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Police confirming now that a third person has been detained. But it is unclear if that person is involved in today's shooting. We have a ton of new developments to sort through after the news conference that just wrapped up a few minutes ago. It all started just before 11:00 a.m. West Coast Time. The first calls of help came into police. Reports of shots fired at Inland Regional Center, a sprawling three building complex with hundreds of employees who help people with developmental disabilities. Within moments, cops arrive on the scene, that scene is still dangerous at this hour. Just moments ago, we learned police discovered an explosive device inside and still have not cleared that building.
Here is how one worker described what unfolded after the first calls went out this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRANDON HUNTS, WORKS IN THE REGIONAL CENTER: As soon as I was about to turn into our building, a cop car started surrounding the building and blocking off the road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you spoken on the phone with anyone who was sheltering in place?
HUNTS: Yes, I have. They immediately got to closets or rooms with a locked door. And I guess they were listening to a police scanner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: By 11:15 a.m. Local Time, the Fire Department reports that they are responding to a 20-victim shooting. A few minutes later, the first suggestions, this might be far from a lone wolf situation. We start hearing reports of three possible gunmen armed with rifles, wearing what is been described as military gear. All of that was confirmed by police in the news conference a few moments ago. Meantime in an all too familiar scene we saw SWAT teams move victims out with their arms raised high in the air. Shortly after 12:30 p.m. Pacific reports would surface that the gunman may be gone. Somehow managing to slip past the responding officers. As least one eyewitness describing what he saw and heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN HERNANDEZ, WITNESS: I was actually standing right across the street of the hotel. It sound like I heard, like a shooting range. Just shots being shot like crazy. Just, I mean, a lot of shots. We have seen a black SUV flying down the street. What I saw looked like one guy was wearing military fatigues. And after that, just seeing all the police and everybody start coming through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: In the last few moments, police revealing new details on the suspects. With more on what we learned in that presser, Trace Gallagher joins us now. Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Couple of big headlines out of the news conference, Megyn. One is, we knew that the shooting happened inside the conference room of the regional center. We know the conference room was actually rented out by the county Mental Health Department. They were holding a Christmas party/awards banquet inside there. There were these reports that there was someone inside the party that had an argument. That person left. And then apparently came back with somebody else and opened fire.
The police tonight were pressed during the press conference about that. And they acknowledged, yes in fact there was some type of dispute inside the conference room. Yes, that person did leave, but they cannot say for sure if the person came back inside and opened fire with some other person. They were also talking about the fact that early on in the investigation that a name came up and the police said to us, or in scanner traffic, that in fact they knew the name and the date of birth of one of the persons who is believed to be a suspect.
Police acknowledged tonight that that information apparently led them to a house in Redlands which is only a few miles away from where the shooting took place. It was that house in Redlands during a follow-up investigation that they came upon a suspect vehicle. It was that suspect vehicle that turned into a chase. And that turned into the shooting that you were seeing here. It was the SUV, the black SUV that was apparently seen leaving the mental center earlier today, or the regional center earlier today. There was a shootout. The two suspects inside the SUV were shot and killed. One was female, one was male. A police officer was hit by a ricochet bullet but did not suffer a life-threatening wound.
There was said to be a third suspect in all of this. That third suspect is apparently been apprehended but police were very careful tonight to say that it's unclear if that suspect is connected to the shootings. Remember, all day long, we were hearing as many as three suspects, well, now three are accounted for, but it is unclear if the third person who is now in custody is actually connected to the shooting. We should note the FBI also spoke tonight of this Megyn and did allow some wiggle room. Earlier today, the FBI said, we don't know if this is connected to terrorism.
Tonight they said things have change and that we are now open to the possibility that this might be terrorism. Clearly the FBI has shifted in whatever information they have gleaned throughout the day but as this investigation has gone on, Megyn, and as we have information tonight about a name that was out there that may have been a foreign name, police are now looking into that. Widening the investigation. The FBI is at least a co- lead in all of this. San Bernardino still says they are taking the lead but the FBI is getting more and more involved as the investigation goes on -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you. And thank you for your caution in that name. Catherine Herridge had some breaking news on that. And we will treat it responsibly on this program.
Joining me now is the man who has an intimate understanding of the area where the shooting unfolded. Mark Fuhrman, who is a former LAPD detective and a FOX New contributor. And Mark, thank you for being here.
MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE: Thank you.
KELLY: So, as you hear the police come out with -- it's been a bizarre day in terms of the information that the police and the law enforcement has shared. When you hear them talking about, still, how the third person who has been detained may or may not be connected to this, that they can't -- they don't know the ethnicity of the two shooters, the suspect -- the suspects that dead. What did you glean from that presser?
FUHRMAN: Well, certainly the two deceased shooters have probably been fingerprinted and photographed. They might possibly quite have identification on them. I doubt it, but they might have. They might know the identification of both suspects. They might know where they are from, if they are nationals or United States citizens. But certainly, they were led back to this house in Redlands. So, when you look at the -- when you listen to the press conference, they did quite a shift from earlier press conferences today and the evidence that was initially out was multiple shooters unlike mass shootings in the United States. Targeted location. A very disciplined organized approach. Ingress, egress. And they escaped. That was something that probably left law enforcement with the suspicious that this was something more than a disgruntled employee, love triangle or just an angry mental patient.
KELLY: What did that tell you if anything that one of the two who has been shot is a woman?
FUHRMAN: Well, we know that terrorism is not a sexist career. The women are just as involved as the men. And just as committed. A man/woman team with a third suspect, you see this in the Middle East, in Africa and Europe, and you see it all the time. We just had one incident in Paris just a couple weeks ago. We also have the newspaper in Paris that this looks remarkably the same. You have a conference room that's attacked, a procession attacked, targeted specifically once the conference room and the people are shot, they leave. Mass assault rifles exactly like this situation is almost like they took the blueprint from that shooting and brought it to San Bernardino.
KELLY: How much planning do you think went into this?
FUHRMAN: Well, I think they have a lot of planning. They knew the location, they knew the conference room. Somebody had been into that location before. Somebody knew exactly where to go. They knew there was a conference there that I suspect that the target or targets were the ones that actually rented their conference room. They didn't seem to be engaging anybody outside or trying to go into any other wings of the facility. So I think they knew that. And that reconnaissance was probably done. But what they didn't realize is that there was a police training center a mile and a half away that was currently having a training day which probably was their downfall because when the call went out, everybody left and sealed off that perimeter and a fairly large area and probably trapped them inside.
KELLY: And that's why you think they stuck around so long? That's one of the big mysteries. They got away with it. I mean, they got out. No one shot them. They didn't take their own lives. Which suggests something about their state of mind. And yet they stuck around.
FUHRMAN: Well, and you wonder if they had the capability to listen into the news reports. If they had, you know, a smart phone. Or they are actually watching live time footage of helicopters, statements of the media, of the police. We don't know where they are. The police don't know where they are. They think they found an abandoned SUV. If they hear that and they just stay down low and they just wait, maybe they thought the police thought that they were already in the wind and they got a little nervous and decided to make a go for it.
KELLY: When you hear the police tonight talk about how they had tactical gear on. How they had assault rifles and they had handguns, about how they had been -- this is been reported earlier now, not at the presser but that they had been reportedly throwing pipe bombs out of the SUV while they were driving that at the police. About how they believe there may be explosive devices in the facility in which they committed murders and possibly around the SUV. The police seemed to be intimating, perhaps they couldn't get close to the suspects because of those suspected IEDs or some sort of explosive device. Is it possible, in your mind, this was the work of a male/female pair, the ones in that SUV, and that's it?
FUHRMAN: Well, I suspect that there is probably a larger cell. I would suspect that this is probably either domestic or international terrorism or sponsored by or radicalized by. This, you know, also looks very much like Boston at the end where they were throwing improvised explosive devices out of the vehicle at the time they were being shot at by the police. So, when you look at the sophistication, the planning, the motivation and the collective ideology of three people to actually go into a facility, well-armed, body armor, tactical equipment. You know, AKs, going in there and actually just shooting people at a target of location, it is a very precision operation that's been planned, thought out. Everybody knows their role. They're working in concert. They go in and then they leave. It is very, you know, surgical to what they are doing. And it smacks of Paris, of Boston.
KELLY: And they're considering that possibility as we speak. Mark, thank you.
Again, if you were just joining us in the last half hour, the FBI agent in charge on the scene at this mass shooting in San Bernardino, California, shared some comments that suggests the Feds maybe taking a closer look at whether this is terrorism. Let's listen to that again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOWDICH: We will continue to go down this road. This is a marathon, not a sprint. I know one of the big questions that will come up repeatedly is, is this terrorism? And I am still not willing to say that we know that for sure. We are definitely making some movements that it is a possibility. We are making some adjustments to our investigation. It is a possibility. But we don't know that yet. And we are not willing to go down that road yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Making some movements that it is a possibility. Our chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge is live in Washington tonight. Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you, Megyn. Based on the evidence so far, U.S. government official told FOX News that the chief assailant here is a U.S. citizen. They did not offer a lot of additional information but they also told us that earlier this evening, they had been working with what was described to us as a foreign name but based on their search of data bases, that name had washed out. But also has the attention of investigators and Homeland Security here in Washington this evening is some of the elements of that news conference.
As you've already mentioned, the male and female suspects, this evidence that goes towards premeditation. The assault clothing, the assault weapons, also the handguns and the possible use of explosive devices, a booby-trapped in the car. And also at one of the suspects that we believe to be the residence. Final point is this increasing involvement of the FBI. Again, that sorts of tilts us towards terrorism. I'm not saying we know anything more than that but it tilts us in that direction, much more so as you saw in the soundbite than what we heard from the FBI earlier today -- Megyn.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And it certainly went much further tonight than they had earlier. Catherine Herridge with some new reporting. The lead suspect was indeed an American citizen. Catherine, thank you.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
KELLY: Joining us now with more, Republican Congressman Peter King. A member of both the Homeland Security and the intelligence committees. Good to see you tonight, Congressman. Thank you for being with us.
REP. PETER KING, R-N.Y., INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE MEMBER: Thank you, Megyn. Good to be here.
KELLY: First of all, what are you hearing and with respect to this case and what they believe may be going on here?
KING: Well, Megyn, I've heard nothing official. But I know there was reference maybe -- I'm not going to mention the name but I heard that same name about three hours ago with the date of birth and apparently it was that person's residence is where they located the SUV. That certainly adds a -- it is a foreign name even though it may be an American citizen. You had that plus all of the body armor, the heavy duty weapons, the explosive, the fact there was a male/female involved. Perhaps a third person. It certainly has aspects of terrorism. Again, it may not be but I certainly understand why the FBI is changing its nuance, it's changing its tone. And it seems to be at least exploring that. It's too early to say that it is terrorism, but it certainly has aspects of it.
KELLY: But the sources that Catherine spoke too are waving us off of that name and suggesting that that has washed out. Now, it's early and that could turn out to be untrue. But that's what we're hearing as of this moment.
KING: I think it washed out as far as being on the data base. But I believe when the police officials said that they got the address of that person and that's where they located the SUV.
KELLY: And so as far as you -- this is you based on your television, you know, consumption or this is you based on anything beyond that? I mean, are you sort of resurrecting that name as having a possible role in this?
KING: Yes. I am saying, I was given that name three hours ago. The name and the date of birth. And now I just heard, I heard the report of the police saying that they checked out the name, if it is the same name we're talking about, that came up three hours ago and they went to the residents and that's where the SUV was located.
KELLY: Uh-hm. Uh-hm. What do you think that they are looking at tonight? Why won't they get out there and tell us explicitly what are the names, what are the ages, what are the ethnicities. That's one of the questions that the reporters were asking because people are wondering whether this is radical Islamic terrorism. That's why they are asking.
KING: Yes. Again, I think the FBI wants it hold back until they have a better idea where it is going. This could be the disgruntled employee. It could be a love triangle. It could be terrorism. And I think they want to explore everything. And they also don't want to give out too much in case other people are involved. You know, they don't want to compromise anything. So, I understand. You know, we're only three hours into this and we, you and I, we like to give you information as quickly as we can. But I think they are doing a thorough job and I give them credit for that.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And do you believe that the FBI knows much more than they are telling us?
KING: I assume so. Yes. They always do. My father was a cop. I'd been around FBI agents, cops all my life. They want to get the case as much under control as they can before they go public. Not because they're trying to withhold information. But they don't want to, first of all, you know, create an incident where one doesn't exist and also, there could be others out there that they may be trying to apprehend.
KELLY: Why do you think they say they are not ruling terrorism out as he put it? Is this terrorism? We're not willing to say we know that for sure. We are moving some -- we are making some movements that it is a possibility. Why would the LA FBI director say it in that way, Congressman?
KING: I think because they see indicators that could lead to terrorism. Two hours ago, they did not see that. Whatever they uncovered in the last several hours, they've seen certain evidence, certain indicators that could be terrorism. Not enough to say conclusively and it may not be. But enough that they can rule it out. So, there's definitely a switch and emphasis, definitely a switch in nuance.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And certainly the implications would be much more far- reaching. If indeed, that's what we are looking right here. Congressman, thank you.
KING: Megyn, thank you.
KELLY: Breaking right now, just as we were starting this broadcast. Adam Housley got a hold of exclusive video showing the earlier shootout between police and the suspects. This is the first time we are seeing it. We go live now to Adam live in San Bernardino with that exclusive. Adam.
ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS REPORTER: Yes, Megyn. We're seeing this up for you too, and give you a little bit more about what Peter King and you were just speaking of, about the names that are being thrown around. I just got off the phone with law enforcement, they tell me one reason why it is being held very delicately, held very delicately, because they can't get inside that SUV still. They do believe it is potentially booby-trapped or has explosive devices. They do believe there is more information about the suspects inside but those names being thrown around and potentially could lead them down the path as alluded to in that press conference. So, they're being very delicate with this, precisely because of the names they believe could be on the suspects.
Meantime where these suspect were shot and where it began was just behind me. I will step away and we'll go to that video. About 200 yards, 250 yards down from where we're standing. We were there earlier. There was glass on the street. That's where the first shooting began. The back window is shot out of the SUV. About a hundred feet further, that's where the first main shootout happened where they went back and forth trading gunfire between authorities and the suspects. Then they went through the stop light and that's where it came to an end they were shot and killed. The video you're going to see now is from David, David I interviewed earlier today, he was in the location or basically right where the second shootout happened. So three locations about 100 yards between the two or between the three. He was right there. Here comes the video. Take a look. It's the first time it has been seen anywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID ESPINOZA, WITNESSED SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTOUT: On this part of San Bernardino, this is what's going on. We still got all this stuff going on. Oh, they are after somebody. Oh, (bleep). Oh, (bleep). Something is going on. Something is going on. There you go. They are after that guy. They are after that guy. Guns. Gunshots. Gunshots. Gunshots. Ah! Did you see that? Yes. There was gunshots. Oh -- oh, better get down, bro. Let's get out of here. Oh, my God. Oh, oh, oh, they're killing that guy. Close the gate. Close the gate. We have gunshots. We have gunshots. Oh, my God. Right in front of us, dude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOUSLEY: Okay. So that was at 3:07 local time. 6:07 Eastern this evening for you guys, that's afternoon for us. David Espinoza is the employee who was there, Megyn. You're looking at the live, look down there now. They have it, obviously surrounded by all sorts of -- the S.W.A.T. team is there but the bomb team as well because they are having to actually take a look at what is inside that SUV. They are concerned that it does have a bomb inside. I'm told they have not yet reached the inside of the SUV. Obviously, a very delicate situation there. But you can see the chaos. We are talking -- we are about a mile and a half from where the murders took place. That factory where David Espinosa worked was being shut down. The workers were going home.
People here in San Bernardino were basically hunkering down or going home. The business day was ending because of what was going on here. No one knew where those people were. We were actually right over by the command center. We had kind of made our way down some railroad tracks. And we can see where the bomb squad had come in. The FBI had a massive presence. Obviously local police forces as well. And all of a sudden, we got a tip on my phone that said there was a chase. Within seconds, it seems like, the battering ram left, the Special Forces from the Police Department, left.
And that's when we got in our SUV and left and came here and that's where it ended right down the street. So, as you can tell, Megyn, still very fluid here. Investigations still ongoing. We heard about the Redlands situation where they're doing the search warrant there. But I -- back to those names, that is the reason why the FBI is being very delicate. As you know, it is a very delicate situation in this country and they want to make sure they have it exactly right. I'm told they're not going to tell us until they for sure get into that vehicle and thoroughly go through it and see if there is any other identification inside that kind of thing - - Megyn.
KELLY: So, they know -- what you're saying is they know the names, they just don't want to release them until they ensure that the names they believe they have are in fact the people they killed.
HOUSLEY: They think they know the names. And if you talked to them they won't go on record obviously because of the situation. But I'll tell you, they've seen those cell phone pictures. And now some of them have seen them in person obviously as well. But certain folks seeing cell phone pictures up front, up front, up close of these individuals. And obviously have an idea of their ethnic background, if you will. Doesn't mean that has anything to do with this. I mean, it could be workplace. But, you know, because of the delicate situation here, Megyn, when you throw out a certain name or certain ethnicity, automatically everybody jumps to terrorism. And that could be here. It could be. But it also could be not. So, that's the reason why they are so delicate with us. And I guess that's understandable, you know, because of the situation we are and not only in this country but in this world.
KELLY: I want to rewrap (ph) that video, that extraordinary video you just showed us. Because explain what happened. We just had Congressman King on earlier saying, well, they traced the SUV back to the home of this one individual. And that's one of the reasons why they are taking a hard look at the guy. But now, you know, we are seeing the police chase with the SUV. Explain -- these two different reports, the SUV, how do they did? They stumble upon it? What happened?
HOUSLEY: Well, there's a couple different reports here. We heard someone called it in. Could be a multitude of things. Could be they traced it back and it could be someone called it in also. But if you look at that video Megyn, it's not fast chase, when David Espinoza pulled aside and he show me video, you can see, they are only doing 35 or 40 miles an hour. As -- chases, that's not crazy. And then you see the window being shot out. I was standing by the glass. It was insane that it started there. Then a 100 yards later, it was the first real barrage of gunfire. And then about another 150 yards is where it indeed and where they were killed. And so, seems like a slow speed chase. Almost as if they were preparing to fire back at the authorities. And you also notice there, it wasn't just marked cruiser. A lot of unmarked cars. I mean, the police presence here is massive, as you might expect and understandably so -- Megyn.
KELLY: Can we just, I don't know if we are able to rewrap it again. Because we are trying to get the shot of the SUV.
HOUSLEY: Hey, Megyn, do you want to hear from David? Do you want to hear from David? He is here.
KELLY: Yes. We would love to hear from David.
HOUSLEY: David Espinoza come over. David is the one who shot this video. Hold on. He is coming over right now. I know you're working right here. I know, we have spoken a couple of times. And I mean, your account is amazing. You guys were shutting down, I'll give you a quick synopsis for those who don't know. You were shutting down for the day. I talked to your boss. He wanted the employees to go home. Be safe, hunker down, get out of here because no one knew what heck was going on. We didn't know where these gunmen were. And then, all of a sudden, you saw what?
ESPINOZA: All of a sudden, we just saw that SUV, normal traffic stop by the police, and didn't stop where they were supposed to and all of a sudden we just saw or heard the gunshot in the windows just shattered. We took a cover and then they passed by us. That's when I was already recording at the time, you know, I was already recorded something. And then from there, the second -- maybe 50 to 80 yards from us, that's when the second shooting appeared. Covered again. Took cover. And then the last of the shots, it was a pretty scary moment.
HOUSLEY: I mean, you guys were outside. You realized, they were already outside the fence, anyway. You thought it was just a traffic stop that would happen to have a couple extra officers of course. You guys were going to go home any way.
HOUSLEY: But then when you heard the gunfire as you see on the video, I mean, you guys were like, holy smokes, in different words.
ESPINOZA: Yes. Exactly. And then when I saw them, when I saw the parade of all the police officers coming, units, the FBI, ATF all chasing them, like, oh, this is them. This is them. And when I saw part of their faces. I just couldn't believe that that was them. And it is happening here in front of us.
ESPINOZA: Very surreal. Yes. Exactly. It happens everywhere. Now it is happening here.
HOUSLEY: I know one of your bosses said, he you know, he knows AK-47s -- all sorts of speculation, obviously they had powerful weapons, and we heard from the press conference, now knowing that, I mean, troubling.
ESPINOZA: Yes, it is. I mean, having that right in front of us, in front of, you know, some of the place where, you know, I was talking to outside of the, you know, escorted them outside -- take cover -- you know, just -- they were scary noises.
HOUSLEY: You want to show that video one more time, Megyn. I want to ask you too real quickly, when you look at your phone after it all went down and you look at the video again, pretty amazing.
ESPINOZA: Sure was. Like a wow, I actually recorded that. And it's happening. And listening to the gunshots, especially the gunshots, listening to those, you know, it was really, really ugly.
HOUSLEY: David Espinoza, we appreciate your time. Thanks for your safe. And as you can tell Megyn, a lot of people in this town are a bit shaken. I spoke to a woman earlier who has hunkered down in a closet with her dog. She's now been told -- and viewers actually e-mail and tweet me, she is okay. She's been allowed to come out of her closet with her dogs and reunited with her husband. So, very tense moments here and still honestly, some tense moments. So, we don't know truly where this case goes at this point.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And of course on everybody's mind, even if this is not terrorism, in a way we understood it in Paris, France, we understood from that attack -- there were other attackers who were part of it. Who were lurking. Who wanted to unleash another attack just days later. And even if this is something other than that kind of terrorism, of course that is in the back of people's minds.
KELLY: Adam, thank you. We'll be back to you.
Well, our next guest was working in a building across the street from today's attack when she heard what she thought sounded like gunshots from an automatic weapon. Just a short time later, she would find herself providing refuge for some of the folks who managed to escape as they explain to her the horrors they had just witnessed moments before. Sandy Wood is the executive director of the Inland Empire Lighthouse for the Blind.
She joins us now by phone. Sandy, thank you very much for being here. So, what was the first time you had that something had gone wrong?
SANDY WOOD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INLAND EMPIRE LIGHTHOUSE FOR THE BLIND (on the phone): Megyn, I believe it was about 10 minutes to 11. Or 10 minutes after 11:00 when I heard the gunshot ring out. It was a loud noise. I immediately moved away from my windows. I'm on the second floor, my office is. And I went to the back of my desk and called 911 to report I was hearing shots fired. That same moment, one of my employees came running up the stairs saying, Sandy, there's gunshots. So, I reported it to the Police Department. They told me they were getting other calls and police were on their way. So, I hung up and I got on the intercom system, we're a school for visually impaired, we have about 60 folks there at our school today and I announced to stay in the classroom and lock the doors and that police were on their way.
KELLY: Oh, good gracious. You're telling me you have 60 blind people in the school, who now are wondering where the gunshots are coming from, and you have to go on lock down because there is real danger and there is a mass murder happening across the street.
WOOD: And at that time, Kelly, we didn't even know that. At that particular moment, we did not know that there was a mass murder going on. This is 200 feet away from our facility. But there was loud gunfire. It stopped for a moment and then it started again. So we just locked the doors. Then shortly thereafter, there was people running from the building. Three of the people came into our facility. We closed the door and locked it again. Of course, they were very shaken, and upset. They were in the conference room when this shooting happened. None of these guys were hurt. One of the gentleman had fallen from running and he had a couple of injuries on his hands. It was a frightening experience.
KELLY: So, was it three men who came in?
WOOD: Yes. Three people.
KELLY: What were the ages of the men who came into your facility?
WOOD: Oh, in their 30s, 40s.
KELLY: And describe their condition. First of all, before we get to what they said. How did they appear to you?
KELLY: So they come.
WOOD: Very shaken.
KELLY: They come in and what -- how did they explain what they had just witnessed?
WOOD: Well one, the third guy that came in, he was hiding behind our - - the vehicles parked on the streets. So I opened the door and I called out and said, "Do you need to come in here?" And so the two guys that were already in the building that came from the shooting scene said "Yes, we know him." So he came in and all three of them were just, you know, talking it each other, trying to console each other. All three of them had been present when the shooting happened.
KELLY: How did they describe it, Sandy? We've heard so many conflicting reports.
WOOD: I know. That they described somebody dressed in black with the masks on, and assault rifle, a bulletproof vest, and they weren't sure if it was somebody that was already in the conference room or they had come into the conference room.
KELLY: Sorry, go ahead.
WOOD: I think people's memories are jagged when you're struck with an incident like that, so it was -- it wasn't really clear what had happened.
KELLY: Did they tell you what they were doing in the conference room, to begin with?
WOOD: It's -- I'm under the impression, it was a San Bernardino County seminar -- conference going on in this meeting room and that there was about 50 people present.
KELLY: Because we had heard also that there -- it was a Christmas party. Did these guys say they were at Christmas party?
WOOD: No. No, they did not. Neither -- none of the three said anything about a Christmas party.
KELLY: So they were there doing business?
WOOD: I understand it was a seminar -- conference training session for San Bernardino County employees.
KELLY: Any particular kind of employees?
WOOD: I'm thinking it was from environmental services.
KELLY: Now, did they say anything, there had been some reports unconfirmed, that someone was there became upset, laughed and came back. And that's when the shooting occurred. Did they speak to that at all?
WOOD: No, they did not.
KELLY: Did they say, and I'll realize that the shooter or shooters were wearing masks. But did they express any recognition of these -- of the killers?
WOOD: No, because as time was going on and the detectives and the police were there talking to everyone, there was no description. They couldn't tell if it was male or female or any kind of description of the shooter.
KELLY: Was anything said by the killers?
WOOD: Not that I heard.
KELLY: And how did the men describe the victims, the state of the room?
WOOD: One man told me that he was sitting right next to a girl that got shot. We saw several people looked like maybe they were victims in the parking lot across the street, after some people were being vacated. One of my frat members said they thought they saw lifeless bodies being carried away. I never really saw and the ambulance did from my view, from our building but apparently, there were fatalities.
KELLY: How did the mean get out?
WOOD: From the conference room.
WOOD: Where they came from?
WOOD: I think they just ran out the door and ran across the street.
KELLY: During the shooting?
WOOD: I believe so.
KELLY: They've made a run for it while the shooting was under -- undergoing -- while under it was underway.
WOOD: I believe so, Kelly.
KELLY: I mean I can't imagine that the shock you saw on their faces. I mean, we all go to work every day. We go, you know, we go around fellow human beings every day, we engage in conferences, we engage in discussions and to go from a normal moment, one second to witnessing the people around you getting shot and dying the next. What.
KELLY: What -- how did you read it on them?
WOOD: They were shaken. They didn't know what was going on. They fled the scene. And they were -- one gentleman -- he use my phone to call his wife. They were absolutely petrified, as was everyone in the Lighthouse at this moment. It was really frightening. And then you have a moment and you realize all of our lives could have ended at that very moment, when you start realizing -- there was mass murder 200 feet away from our building. And thankfully, we thanked the good Lord, all 60 of our staff members and blind students are safe and no one is injured at the Lighthouse for the Blind.
KELLY: Thank goodness for that. Last question, did you hear the man's conversation with his wife? Did you hear how that went?
WOOD: Yes. He told her he was safe and there was a shooting, and that he was OK. He was reassuring her. She was a grocery store worker.
KELLY: Wow. Thank you so much Sandy Wood. We appreciate you giving us the time tonight, all the best to you.
WOOD: Kelly, thank you for covering this event and thank you for a -- your support and bringing this to the -- to your audience.
KELLY: We'll stay on it. Well, at this hour, we are told that police are searching the home of one of these shooting suspects. Again, two are dead, one described as a third suspect, who has been detained -- was detained. The police said because this person was seen running away from the SUV when police confronted it. They said they were not sure whether this person had actually anything to do with the crime, but they are at the house of one of the suspects right now looking for new clues. Trace Gallagher tracking this part of the story, live from the west coast newsroom. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And Megyn, we have a producer on the scene right now where that search warrant is being served in Redlands, which is the very same area where police picked up the suspect vehicle today, that led to the shootout between the suspects and police, where two suspects were killed. Our producer is now telling us that a short time ago, they actually sent a robot inside the house and just minutes ago or a minute ago, he heard a large bang, an explosion. It's unclear if that was the robot detonating some kind of explosive device or if it was an actual explosive device.
Remember, earlier today, after the shooting, police sent in another robot into the Regional Center because there was concern that there was an explosive device in there. In fact, tonight in the press conference, the police said that they believe there was still an explosive device inside the Regional Center that they were concerned about and they were focusing on. So if you go back to this, where the search warrant is being served tonight, this apparently is the home of one of the suspects. It's unclear if it is a house or an apartment, Megyn. But again, this is what led police the name and the date of birth led police to this area today. And that name and date of birth, leading them to the area, they came across the suspect vehicle. The suspect vehicles took off. They pursued and the next thing you know there is a low speed chase, 35 to 40 miles per hour, and then the shooting started when the two suspect were killed.
What police are really focusing on inside this apartment or house is of course, the computers and any evidence that might be inside, figuring out exactly who these people are and what their motive was and what their ties were to this mental health department group that was actually inside the conference room. They had leased out the conference room for the day. Inside the conference room, wondering what connection might have been to the suspects and to the people inside. Because the reports are that they were actually targeting somebody or some people that were inside this conference room. Right now, police are trying to tie it all together. This whole search warrant could provide them with an extreme amount of information inside what they believe is one of the suspect's homes -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, we'll back to you. As police begin to investigate a possible motive, my next guest, a former top official at the FBI has been analyzing this shooting in San Bernardino, and was not surprised to see that terrorism has not been ruled out. As assistant director of the FBI in New York in the 1990s, James Kallstrom led the FBI's criminal investigation into the crash of flight TWA 800. He later oversaw all matters relating to counterterrorism and security for the state of New York as senior advisor for the governor in the years following 9/11. James Kallstrom joins us tonight by phone, James, thank you very much for being with us. Your reaction to what we heard tonight from the FBI?
JAMES KALLSTROM, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, I think they have reason to go down that road. Obviously, I don't know what that reason is, Megyn, but it looks that way. The complicated matter doesn't -- should any particular nice set of facts where, you know, that creates a mental case or love triangle or even terrorism for that matter that we're used to, so it is a little bit different. But it's -- after the fact, I think the police units did a great job. You know, you mentioned earlier that the -- they probably felt trapped. They didn't want to get out on the major highways and good police work got them to that home. I think we will gonna know what awful lot more in a short period of amount of time. If it is terrorism, if it is international, you know, jihadist terrorism, it's only gonna put additional exclamation points on to the things that I have been talking to you about for a long time, Megyn.
And particularly, why we need to get NSA back in the game? Because you know, we don't have hours and days to fool around trying to find out who is talking to who. And, you know, we need the real-time. And that type of advantage is gonna save lives. And we need -- of course we need more people working on the FBI and.
KALLSTROM: I don't want to get into shy that is or what the shortfalls are because I don't want to give our crazed adversaries and the advantage of what I might comment on. But I can tell you without question, that, you know, this is a serious matter, whatever it is and I feel so sorry for all of those people that were mowed down. And it is just unbelievable.
KELLY: I mean, let's talk about the things. Obviously, one of the things they are looking at is this radical Islamic terrorism. That's -- it's gonna come -- be the first thing that comes to your mind in any situation like this, given what we saw in Paris. But let's talk about the things that suggest you, it might not be that. I mean, for example, one of the things I've heard is what radical Islamist goes in and targets one county executive meeting.
KELLY: And doesn't shoot up the rest of the building and.
KALLSTROM: Right, right.
KELLY: Escapes. You know what that was.
KALLSTROM: No, that's right. I mean, that's right, we.
KELLY: And doesn't have more carnage.
KALLSTROM: Right, well. You know, I guess, you know, we shouldn't be there -- we shouldn't be a victim of what we see as the usual and past, but you're right. They will then ignore the people on the first floor and went up to the conference room. You know, why would you do that, I mean, if you're looked at all of the experience we've had the last two decades, you know, that's not the normal modus operandi. So it just throw you a little bit off but -- but obviously, you know these people evolve and they are revolving only in daily and they're very sophisticated and they're very smart. And, you know, one way of terrorizing us is to really put us off our normal game plan and put us off on what we normally expect. So I don't see that as unusual.
KELLY: Do you -- would you describe this as a sophisticated attack?
KALLSTROM: I would. I mean, from the standpoint of planning, I think - - obviously, they cased, the area that they wanted to carry out. They -- unlike most of the ones in the past, they apparently, according to the news media, were wearing body armor. Which means they were not about to sacrifice themselves. They are those virgins up there. They were going to come back to fight another day. And that's somewhat of an advantage to us and I hope we're going to find out an awful lot more.
And -- then of course, we have to act on this stuff quickly. And we have to know it quickly. We have to know the, you know, the tangles of this spider web that's a conspiracy. If it is a conspiracy and we have to act very quickly because, you know, the day might come when the simultaneous events going on, so we just don't have the time. And we need to review, you know, the attorney general guidelines so that the FBI can react quicker. You know, the general public can do things the FBI has to jump through hoops forward, which is really insane.
KELLY: Again, considering -- the FBI says, you know, considering everything and they haven't ruled out terror in the way we understand that term. How -- if you rule it out, just for the purposes of this discussion, that this is, you know, Islamic terrorism. How bizarre would it be, James, to have a disgruntled worker, for example? If this is workplace violence, go home and get a spouse, a girlfriend, a friend, you know a female. Maybe it was reverse, maybe it was the woman who, you know, and then comeback. I mean to get somebody else to sacrifice, potentially, their own life.
KALLSTROM: I don't think that's ever happened, Megyn.
KELLY: Just to kill a bunch of people because you're ticked off.
KALLSTROM: Yeah. I don't think it's ever happened before. It doesn't make any sense.
KELLY: So what do you think that law enforcement agencies right now are doing?
KALLSTROM: Well, they are covering a lot of leads, you know. They are looking at the -- hopefully, they're getting devices out of that home. They are looking at, and hopefully there are devices in that car once they get through the bobby traps. You know, they're gonna be - they're gonna be doing all kinds of intelligence. You know, where these people, if it turns out to be Middle East Islamic radicals, you know, were they on the -- were they on the list. Were they someone that the Director Comey was talking about.
KELLY: Well, to that point, James. Early tonight, President Obama made remarks on the shooting. It was very early before we had a lot of information. And he was lamenting the ease with which people can get guns in the country. And in that context, he, as an example of why he thinks the gun laws needs to be revised. He said people who are on the no-fly list. You know, terror suspects are on the no-fly list, can still get guns. We need to do something about that. Which caught a lot of people by surprise, asking -- wait. Is that a general comment or has he been told something about this case, because he said it in the second paragraph of a long answer responding to this case.
KALLSTROM: I don't think he is totally in particular about that. I mean, it's kind of crazy that someone on the no-fly list can get a gun, that's crazy, but has been huge problem with the no-fly list. And the government just has an awful time, you know, building automated systems and they're pay, you know, millions and millions of dollars with things they has -- the regular private sector, you know spends thousands on. We need to do a better job with government regulations that slow down, you know, the ability for the bureau and other agencies to keep up with technology. You know on this black stones that people can operate on, you know, that's a huge, huge encumbrance. You know, and -- to say what you want, you know, that you see how you and the rest of you out there -- say wants you want. But if that's your family that's being held or that's your family that's in the target zone, you know, you probably think twice about that, wouldn't you?
You know, so we have to react to the times and we can't be tied to the '90s and the '80s. We can't be tied to an AT&T run the whole communication system in the whole world and it is a much different time. It's geometrically more different today than it was a decade ago.
KELLY: James Kallstrom, thank you for being here tonight, Sir.
KALLSTROM: My great pleasure, Megyn.
KELLY: So right now, police are searching the home of one of the suspects (inaudible) left. Plus, we are awaiting new details in the news conference, just ahead. We heard the last one was chalk full of information and now we are expecting to get another one. And we will take another look at our exclusive video of the shoot-out earlier. We were gonna take a two- minute break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunshot.
KELLY: We'll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gunshot.
(Police car sirens)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, we now have live pictures coming back from the search of this suspect's home in the San Bernardino shooting. Jonathan Hunt is live there with the latest, Jonathan?
JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the focus right now on Redlands that is about five miles from San Bernardino, where the original shooting happened, the Police and other law enforcement personnel moving very slowly, very deliberately around a specific property in Redlands. Our producer on the scene sent us back some video of a robotic vehicle moving towards that property. Our producer (inaudible) also told us he heard the sound of a small explosion. It sounded like a detonation to him. Clearly, police have some information that has led them to this house, possibly part of the ID that is being floating around for some time now. We have known a specific name for several hours, as have you, we have not said it on air yet, we have not had it confirmed officially, but that name is out there and we believe that that property may be connected to that name.
Separately, they're also surrounding the SUV, where the huge gun battle took place. They've been moving in very carefully around there. Although, they do say that a pipe, a piece of pipe that was thrown from that SUV, before the two suspects in it were shot dead, was not an explosive device, Megyn.
KELLY: That is news. OK, Jonathan, thank you very much. Join in us now with more, Ron Hosko, former assistant director of the FBI and Joshua Katz, former CIA operations officer who now specializes in Homeland Security and Intelligence, great to see you both. Ron, let me start with you. We're not saying this name of this person, because it hasn't been confirmed. Others have gone with it, we're choosing not to until it's confirmed. However, the question is that the person that they're discussing may have worked for the very bureau that may have been having the conference there that afternoon. And to what extent do you believe the FBI would be looking at the possibility of self-radicalization and that potential in selecting a target?
RON HOSKO, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF THE FBI: I think they would absolutely be looking at that and other possibilities, Megyn. I was trying to read the words and the thoughts of my friend David Bowditch, as he spoke earlier, and his tone gives me great pause. It has me believing that.
KELLY: He's the FBI head in L.A.
HOSKO: That's right, that there's a terror a nexus to this. Frequently, in so many prior active shooting cases. Look at Jared Loughner, look at Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook, Aaron Alexis here at the Navy yard, occasion after occasion of active shooter. And very quickly, after this scene that the gun powder, the dust settled at the scenes, you have an understanding of the drivers. And frequently, it's mental illness. We're not hearing that yet. And so, you want to take that raw active shooter driver off the table, and say what else was at work here?
HOSKO: Was it a hybrid? Was this somebody who this was -- he was going to get revenge and then go into other terror attacks? So I'm sure the bureau is looking and they'll be working all night tonight on trying to figure out the networks and understand what was going on here.
KELLY: Josh, what significance of any does it have to you that the person found with the male suspect in this SUV was a female?
JOSHUA KATZ, FORMER CIA OPERATIONS OFFICER: I think, Megyn, what that tells us is that anybody can be a perpetrator and anybody can be a victim. And there's no line here anymore. There's no definitive profile of people that commit these horrible acts. And I think that that's what we really need to understand here, is that anybody can be an attacker, and we all have to be aware.
KELLY: Is there any -- I mean, what happened with that SUV was a shootout in which the two suspects were killed. Now there's a third person whose been detained. And we don't know whether that person is involved in this or not. But how do you imagine that debrief of that person is going right now, Ron?
HOSKO: Well, the bureau, they're memo in engaging in interviews like this is really to try to build some rapport, get the person talking, understand what their drivers are and work them to the truth. And that may be peeling back layers of lies and initial lies in rebutting those lies, but it's ultimately to get their cooperation. This is a serious --very serious incident, we have multiple dead, multiple homicides here, multiple aggravated batteries on other victims. So there is a real price to be paid, but there's an opportunity for someone to tell us what the entire plot looks like.
KELLY: And just to confirm what we have on the bottom of the screen, two rifles, two handguns recovered so far during the investigation. And now the reports of a pipe bomb seem to be falling apart. That may be a piece of a pipe was thrown and not an actual bomb. Josh, how much do we grim of anything from the fact that we saw the, you know, the robotic bomb detector going into that home moments ago? It would -- that just be out of an abundance of caution or would they have had to see something that looks an awful lot like a bomb.
KATZ: No. I think the police and the SWAT teams and the authorities are really on-edge because they don't know what they're walking into. So sending the robot in is out of an abundance of caution. And what would I say is that the explosion and the concussion or whatever it was that people heard, could have just also been out of an abundance of caution. So we don't know what we don't know and we shouldn't jump to any sort of conclusions here, because as you're talking, things are developing and the situation. We're learning more and things are changing. So we need to proceed carefully.
KELLY: Absolutely. And we're going to get an actual update from police very soon. So stay tuned for that. Gentleman, thank you.
HOSKO: Thank you.
KELLY: In the hour since the attack, even before we know the motive, the intent or even the suspect's identity. There has been a wave of new calls for gun control. And when republican candidates for president sent out messages, calling for support and prayers for the victims, they were attacked in some instance -- instances by some commentators. Even the New York Daily News, which is running this cover tomorrow, saying "God isn't fixing this, he's gotten into it." I'll show you in a second.
Dana Perino is here. She was the White House press secretary for President George W. Bush and co-host of The Five. Dana, immediately it turns to gun control, and I think, you know, Americans are -- whatever you're stance on gun control, they're fed up. They're fed up with the weekly updates on mass killings in the United States.
DANA PERINO, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: I think that President Obama could actually find common ground with people on that, but he immediately decided to respond, when actually because we've seen -- as you seen with the Breaking News, even during your hour, Megyn. You have developments that are showing America that we -- still don't know exactly what happened, and this could actually be much more serious than something that we haven't seen before, right? In America, or this something new and different, we don't know that.
And so there's a tremendous desire to respond. There's a lot of pressure to respond, but leaders should not comment like the comment section on a website. Like what you want is clarity and calm, and there is merit for leaders, either candidates or the president to just wait and say, he's been informed, she has been informed, and we will update you as soon as you know more from the authorities.
KELLY: Because what we hear, you know the president came out pretty quickly, he made a comment about gun control. And that is a cause that is near and dear to many, in particular on the left in this country. However, that can be very alienating to the gun right supporters in the country and the best gun laws in the world might very well not have protected -- prevented somebody who may be a terrorist from unleashing carnage.
PERINO: Right. And so then people then who also feel very strongly that their gun -- that the right to have a gun under the Second Amendment, that they would feel like they were being attacked. And so immediately, everybody goes to their corners rather than trying to figure out number one, what happened. Number two, are there any laws on the books that should have been enforced that weren't, and are there laws that we should pass that could have prevented it. And I don't think any of those are known tonight. And when the president speaks, he will always have the (inaudible). He didn't have to do that tonight and I think it actually did not do him any favors and the same I would say for O'Malley and Clinton.
KELLY: Because people's tensions run high after something like this. This is not, not that it would make it any better for Washington or New York, as we seen ISIS threaten to target. But this is, this is, you know, hometown, U.S.A. and everyone -- many people in many towns tonight may be feeling on-edge that it could happen anywhere.
PERINO: And there is no harm in expressing the sympathy and the worry and the prayers, I might add, Megyn, which also believe it or not, prayers even became controversial tonight. But I think that all of us should offer our prayers to those families and those who have been shaken by this today. And as we learn more about it, we're going to need more faith as well as our leaders to be calm and provide us clarity, not reckless comments.
KELLY: Dana Perino, thank you. It's so great to see you -- always thoughtful. So the situation in San Bernardino is this, 14 people are dead. Another 17 have been wounded, many seriously. And the death toll could rise. We are keeping our eye on the situation there, and waiting for another update from law enforcement. They have promised to come out shortly and we expect another update, not just on the injured, but also on the status of this third suspect. And what is going on in the house of the one suspect that they have been searching. The word has been used raiding for some time. Sean Hannity is here live, next. I'll be back at midnight, stay with us.
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