Planned Parenthood shooting blame game heats up; Carson talks gaining first-hand knowledge of refugee crisis

Chris Stirewalt, Howard Kurtz provide insight into the political and media fallout


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File,"November 30, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, the man accused of killing three people in an attack on a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado makes his first court appearance as the debate over possible motive and who is really to blame heats up.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. It started on Friday when a crazed gunman opened fire in Colorado Springs killing a police officer, a mom and an Iraq war veteran. While police have been careful not to provide information on a possible motive, that has done little to stop some from suggesting this has everything to do with political rhetoric from the right as well as that series of anti-abortion videos released this year by a group known as the center for medical progress. This is a theory that is yet to be confirmed. And it sparked a powerful piece in the National Review by conservative and contributor Jim Geraghty. He specifically points to what he calls the selective logic and occasional hypocrisy by some on the Left when it comes to violence in America.

Case in point. While many argue that Colorado was bound to happen due to criticism of Planned Parenthood. Do you remember how some of those same folks reacted to chance like this?


More On This...

PROTESTERS: Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon!


KELLY: They argue that people describing police as pigs and calling for them to be fried like bacon did nothing to fuel any of the attacks we saw on cops. When gunmen tried to shoot up Mohammed cartoon event, the one staged by Pamela Geller, Geraghty points out that many Liberals suggested it was Geller's fault, that she triggered the attack. Is anyone saying that here? And at the same time investigators contend we may never know what motivated a known, quote, "Home grown violent extremist to kill four marines and a sailor last July." But the man who shot Gabby Gifford and killed six others back in 2011, well, he clearly had views similar to right wing extremists or so the theory goes.

Gary goes on to point out, that when a young man opened fire at the conservative Family Research Council, there was no national debate about how people had demonized Tony Perkins and political opponents on the right.  But when a young man who had a history of therapy went on a killing spree near U.C. Santa Barbara, some on the Left were out there arguing that, quote, "Misogyny kills." And there's little reason to talk about the gunman apparently who specifically targeted Christians on an Oregon campus this year. And how about when a self-avowed white supremacist committed mass murder at an African-American church in Charleston.

Journalist declared white people are to blame. Some of them did.  Meanwhile, the African-American gay man who killed his white co-workers on live television, he was described as a grievance monger. It is enough to make your head spin. And as Geraghty concludes, none of us can really know what prompts a crazy person to do crazy evil things. In moments, we will look at the political and media fallout with Chris Stirewalt and Howie Kurtz.

But we begin with Trace Gallagher reporting from our West Coast Newsroom. Trace.  

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, during his first court appearance, Robert Deer via video conference, he wore a suicide prevention vest and was notified that he faces first degree murder charges, though he won't be formally charged until his next hearing on December 9th.  And it could be several more weeks before the D.A. decides whether to seek the death penalty. There was no new information about a possible motive or even if Planned Parenthood was the intended target. Though there have been multiple reports that after the shooting, an hours long standoff, Robert Deer made rambling comments, mentioning, quote, "baby parts." Both the arrest warrant and the search warrant for the property he lives have been sealed.

Meaning for now, we don't have access to the documents detailing the evidence gathered by investigators, but we are learning more about the suspect, including a long history of run-ins with police. Deer has been accused of everything from domestic violence to animal cruelty to being a peeping tom. His ex-wife told the New York Times that he was generally conservative but not obsessed with politics and that he believes abortion is wrong but didn't really talk about it. The ex-wife says after they divorced, Deer became more reclusive and those who did come in contact with him describe him as weird or strange. Listen.


ROBERT ADAMS, NEIGHBOR OF ROBERT DEER: He stayed to himself and, you know, doesn't associate with nobody, a wave or be friendly with anybody.

LISA HAWKINS, NEIGHBOR OF ROBERT DEER: I know there were something, they were weird, extremist of some sort, but as long as they didn't bother me, I didn't bother them.


GALLAGHER: Other neighbors claimed Deer would occasionally hand out anti-Obama pamphlets, and when he gave himself up at after the six-hour standoff at the clinic, there are reports that Deer made concerning comments about the President. The Secret Service is now evaluating those comments. By the way, Robert Deer's public defender is the same man who defended the gunman who opened fire in the Aurora, Colorado Movie Theater - - Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Well, in the months since the center for medical progress started releasing his undercover videos of Planned Parenthood, the main stream media has largely avoided talking about or showing the sometimes graphic pictures. In fact, there are now some claims that these videos have been quote, "debunked." An idea that has not been proven even by Planned Parenthood's own investigation. What's more, over the past 24 hours, a number of media outlets appeared to jump on the idea that the videos, the ones they barely covered are to blame. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should those who oppose abortion rights tone down their rhetoric?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think the rhetoric got out of hand on Planned Parenthood?  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say the rhetoric really has created this environment where this happened. Do you agree with that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Carley Fiorina who said falsely that Planned Parenthood was guilty of harvesting a live babies organs. So, is it this kind of rhetoric that's fueling these mentally unbalanced people to act?


KELLY: Chris Stirewalt is our Fox News digital politics editor, Howie Kurtz is host of Fox News' "MediaBuzz." It was the rhetoric, Chris, it has to be the rhetoric that drove the guy who was engaging in animal torture to commit this act?

CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, I don't want to get in how he's land here, but that is some of the most colossally stupid questioning I have heard. That last one particularly was doggone impressive when you get right down to it. Should you be talking about this issue that you care deeply about and with which you agree with you 40 percent or 45 percent of the public agrees with you that abortion is wrong and that the federal government shouldn't be giving taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood? Do you think you Mike Huckabee or whoever or any Republican candidate shouldn't be talking about this subject in case a guy who lives in the camper in the middle of nowhere and is evidently very unwell takes it the wrong way and does something? What a cockamamie line of questioning.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Howie, this is, you tell me, but is this not evidence of the bias in some of these reporters who see, who are on the pro-choice side and think any expression of the anti-abortion, the pro-life stance, is angry rhetoric? If you use the term baby killers, which the pro-life people believe abortion is, that's the hateful rhetoric they want to shut down. That's the hateful rhetoric they want to pin in this crime on.  

STIREWALT: Yes. It's also called free speech. Look, I think the media need to be awfully careful about giving an uncritical megaphone to those who want to make this bogus link. Some of the rhetoric from the Left has been disturbing in this case. The executive vice president of Planned Parenthood saying, the Republican politicians are now claiming this tragedy had nothing to do with the toxic environment they helped create. After every mass shooting, I say this to the guilt by association types on the Right as well as the Left, depending on this situation, in this case the people who are opposed to abortion and want to defund Planned Parenthood cannot be held responsible for the actions of a madman with a gun.

KELLY: Uh-hm. And the thing is, Chris, you know, if you look at those videos, right? Carley Fiorina made a claim at the presidential debate that was a bridge too far, that sort of melded two different sets of videos. But now they're trying to pin, they're not trying to say all the Planned Parenthood videos have been debunked because of her one claim about them. And the truth is, no matter what you think about abortion, those videos did show doctors, one doctor who is in charge of abortion services for Planned Parenthood talking about terminating, I'll be charitable the potential life of an unborn human being with such callousness that even the head of Planned Parenthood had to come out later and apologized for what we saw on those tapes.  

STIREWALT: That's right. Before they were debunked, they were apologized for. Before they were debunked, they were an object of shame for many supporters. I believe Hillary Clinton was the one who said, it was disturbing what she had seen and then there was wagon circling and remember how important for the Democratic Party the Planned Parenthood is, as an economic resource, that the money that flows to Democrats from Planned Parenthood is not insignificant, plus organizational factor. I would just say this, from a political point of view, the Republicans aired -- I think Carley Fiorina was right, not in the conflation that she made in the two points in the video. But she was right to grab and hold those videos and talk about it and force the issue. Because it was not something that, as you say, establishment press that is by and large pro-choice.

KELLY: They weren't talking about it.

STIREWALT: They aren't going to talk about anyone. So, the problem is --

KELLY: But the thing is, in Fiorina's defense, she did not see on those tapes, because it didn't exist, the live fetus having its organs harvested. The reason the fetus wasn't alive is because it had just been killed by a Planned Parenthood doctor. So, it's not that great even if you go to the actual truth of what she should have said happened on the tapes.  And that's the cold hard truth about abortion, Howie, is it's a very difficult issue. That's why the country is so divided on it and to try to just dismiss what half the country genuinely believes and what Science is providing a lot of evidence for, if you ever had a baby and gone through a bunch of ultrasounds, which is that fetus, when it is 17 weeks old and can still be aborted, looks an awful lot like a human being is arguably detrimental to the dialogue, to getting anywhere with the other side.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "MEDIA BUZZ": It's a very difficult and emotional and personal issue as you well know. In pure political terms, I think it was a misstep for most of the Republican presidential candidate, Ted Cruz was an early exception, not to say anything about this tragedy, because you had a mother of two killed, a police officer killed.

KELLY: Who are quick to speak out about Kate Steinle, for example, when she was murdered by an illegal immigrant. But now when you have a cop and a mom killed, nothing.  

KURTZ: Right. And it happened at the Starbucks, and not a Planned Parenthood health clinic, of course, they would have spoken out. But at the same time, some politicians, Mike Huckabee for example, he denounced what he called an act of domestic terrorism by this killer. And again, I won't tie him to the videos or to the rhetoric and so forth. This is one guy with a gun who decided to shoot up a bunch of people. But at the same, Huckabee was a fierce opponent of abortion and said, you know, reinforce his believe that abortion is murder. It is possible to hold both views.

KELLY: Right. Right. That's right. I mean, calling, talking about this as domestic terrorism seems to be a no brainer. That's a no brainer, why can't we pin it on the guy, which is what law enforcement appears to be doing. Great to see you both.  

STIREWALT: You bet, Megyn.  

KELLY: Among those taking heat in the wake of this shooting is Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson. He's here next to defend what he said and to share some exclusive new video of what he found inside of a refugee camp holding those Syrian refugees.

Plus, President Obama facing new fallout tonight after the administration is questioned about what's worse the terror threat from the Islamic State or the worry of global warming.

Plus, big news tonight in the Freddie Gray case as jury selection officially begins for the first of the six officers charged in connection of his death. And potential problems become immediately apparent.

Judge Andrew Napolitano is here on whether any of these officers can get a fair trial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?

CROWD: Now! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?



KELLY: Breaking tonight, Dr. Ben Carson is just back from a three-day trip to our ally Jordan in the Middle East. The country that now houses hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS. And he thinks he may have a solution to this problem of where to house these refugees. All this as Dr. Carson takes some heat back at home for comments he made about the Planned Parenthood shooting.

Joining me now, retired neurosurgeon and republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson. Doctor, great to see you. Welcome back. Let's start with the Planned Parenthood issue. Because you were asked on the CBS Sunday morning show yesterday with John Dickerson about whether, about what your thoughts were when it comes to those who are suggesting pro-life rhetoric may have played a role in the shooting. Let me play the exchange.


JOHN DICKERSON, CBS ANCHOR: Some abortion rights supporters have said that the rhetoric has led to that kind of violence. What's your view on that?

DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no question that, you know, hateful rhetoric, no matter which side it comes from, Right or Left, is something that is detrimental to our society. This has been a big problem.  

DICKERSON: Should those who opposed abortion rights tone down their rhetoric?

CARSON: I think both sides should turn down their rhetoric and engage in civil discussion.


KELLY: So the pro-life crowd, many of them are very unhappy with that comment. Do you want to dial it back at all?

CARSON: Well, what they need to do is look at my record. You know, I've spent my whole life as a pro-life advocate trying to save lives, operating on little babies, premature babies, babies in the womb and I don't think any candidate has been involved if raising as much money for pro-life issues as I have. So you know when something is said that someone might try to interpret as being anti-pro-life, that's just silly when you look at --

KELLY: What was the angry rhetoric by the pro-lifers to which you were referring?

CARSON: Well, there are some pro-lifers who will say things like, I can understand why somebody might come into, you know, an abortion clinic and shoot it up. You know, that's kind of over the top. But in terms of saying things like, you know, killing babies, I'd say that myself, that's what it is, you can't sanitize that. But I don't think that's hateful rhetoric. That's just the truth. But on the left side, you know, they engage in such hateful rhetoric by saying that anybody who doesn't want a woman to have an abortion is anti-woman. I think that's very over the top and completely untrue.

KELLY: You know the pro-lifers have come out. Some of them, Troy Newman who is a board member on the Senate for medical progress which made those Planned Parenthood undercover videos, he came out and said, you just ended your candidacy. Students for life came out and said, you took your Talking Points from Planned Parenthood. They think just because maybe, a couple of random people on site here may have made comments like that, it's disingenuous to paint the entire pro-life movement with the brush of hateful rhetoric. Do you believe that's what you did?

CARSON: No. I don't think that I did it all. You know, I'm talking about people who make statements over the top. But here was the real key point. The key point is that one of the things that is destroying America is that people will not sit down and talk. You know, they want to just demonize each other. Somebody has to be the mature one. I think the appropriate people to do that are going to be the pro-life people. Because they have much better arguments. It's very difficult for somebody who is pro-abortion to sit down and explain why it's okay to take this little baby who has features that we can all recognize, eyes, and ears and parts and pull them apart. But they have to be able to explain that.  

KELLY: But let me shift gears with you if I may. Because you just got back from Jordan. And your impressions over there, the solution that you came up with was that we should be giving more money to Jordan, who should house more of these refugees coming out of Syria. Because your conclusion was the Syrians, they don't want to come here?

CARSON: Well, you know, I had an opportunity to talk to several Syrians and talking to the Jordanians. I was very impressed by how open they were and how willing they were to bring even more refugees. They just said they didn't have enough money to do it. They have lots more space and ability. But the Syrians, themselves, were pretty adamant about the fact that they want to go back to Syria. That's what they're looking for. And when asked what America could do, they said, they could help the Jordanians. The Jordanians are having a very difficult time financially being able to support the efforts.  

KELLY: Where do we get the money? Because we've already given Jordan $4 billion. You say maybe another $3 billion could help. Where are we going to get it?

CARSON: It doesn't have to come from the government. The people can do it. The people have plenty of money and they also are very compassionate.

KELLY: That's a novel consent Dr. Carson. It's so novel, it doesn't have to come from the government. That's got to be the big headline. But wait, I want to ask you one big quick question before we have to wrap. And that involves one of your competitors in the 2016 race. Donald Trump today had this dust-up with some pastors, he suggested, they suggested that these guys were going to endorse him. And they had to walk that back. He this morning suggested the reason they walked back their allegedly, you know, promised endorsement was because they had probably been pressured by the Black Lives Matter movement. Do you believe that?

CARSON: I have no idea whether that's true or not, but you know, I respect those pastors for standing up for what they believe in. You know, they may end up endorsing him. But they at least want to hear, discuss it among themselves and decide what they want to do. And they have every right to do that. So I respect them for doing that.  

KELLY: Do you think you're in the running for those endorsements that didn't go his way?

CARSON: Well, I certainly hope I'm in the running for everybody's endorsement, if they will actually listen to what I'm saying as opposed to what is being interpreted, as may say.  

KELLY: Dr. Carson, great to see you.

CARSON: You too, thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Also on the campaign trail, Donald Trump taking heat tonight for appearing to mock a reporter's birth defect, for insisting American Muslims were celebrating in New Jersey by the thousands on the day of 9/11, for suggesting a Black protester at one of his events, deserved to be roughed up, and more in just moments.

Plus, see what happened when the President's team was asked, what is the greater threat, global warming or the Islamic State?

Pete Hegseth and Mark Hannah are next on that.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: What greater rejection than those who would tear down our world than marshalling our best efforts to save them. We have come to Paris to show our resolve.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, new fallout after President Obama takes to the microphone in Paris urging world leaders to combat the threat of climate change. That comes just two weeks after the city was ravaged by terror. The President characterized the climate summit as an act of defiance in the wake of those attacks. But his comments at the conference have led to questions about the President's priorities. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does he prioritize this, or how does he see this in comparison to the challenge of fighting terrorism? Is it as great a challenge, as important a priority as the fight against terrorism or maybe greater because of ultimately, the stakes at play? I mean, where does he see it?

BEN RHODES, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, they're both critically important and we have to do both at the same time. And they pose different threats. Obviously, there is an immediate threat of terrorism that has to be dealt with to protect the American people. I think over the long term, clearly we see the potential for climate change to pose severe risks to the entire world and so it's a threat that has to be --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A greater threat long term?

RHODES: I'm not going to rank them because they're different. And you have to do -- again you have to do several things at once.


KELLY: Pete Hegseth is a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the CEO of Concerned Veterans for America. He's also a FOX News contributor. Mark Hannah served as a campaign aide during the Obama and Kerry presidential campaigns. Good to see you both.  


KELLY: He doesn't want to rank them, Pete. He declined to rank climate change versus terror.  

PETE HEGSETH, IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN: Well, he declines to rank, because he knows when it comes off his lips how absurd it sounds.  However, this administration has already ranked them. This president has talked about climate change being the single greatest threats they faced.  He talks in militaristic language about deterring the enemy in Paris two weeks after an attack, except, oh, it's climate change. Because climate change is the perfect enemy for President Obama, there is no face, there is no moral distinction, whether it's hot, it's cold, you are always fighting.  There is no bullets involved. And the solution is automatically more big government. Big international schemes. And that's what he's there to do.  I mean, they know how absurd it found. But they are ideologically on the Left committed to climate change.  

KELLY: Mark --


KELLY: He can't rank them, really? He can't put the importance of defeating ISIS above climate change.  

HANNAH: That's like what saying, worse, murderer or starvation, what's better, freedom, or justice? I mean, these are big concepts, these are both very serious threats that we face.  

KELLY: Even if you agree with that, the American public is squarely opposed to them on this. If you look at polls, terror is number one in terms of the importance to the American people. Climate change is way down here, look at this, terrorism 24.

HEGSETH: Twenty four!

KELLY: Climate change, three.  

HANNAH: Why is the President talking about climate change? It's because he was invited by the French people to come to Paris to talk about climate change.

KELLY: Fine.

HANNAH: He is at a climate change conference.  

KELLY: Let's talk about climate change.

HANNAH: Right.

KELLY: But let's not like equip them as we're standing in the city where over 100 of people were murdered two weeks ago.  

HANNAH: Sure. And so, he has an obligation to talk about the threat of terrorism. He did that. He has an obligation to fight the war on ISIS.  Which is what he is doing. He is bombing either, there have been 8,000 airstrikes in the past year against ISIS targets. We've killed over 26,000 ISIS fighters. But that doesn't mean we can't at the same time do what Pope Francis is asking us to do. Do what the Pentagon is asking us to do.  They realize that the conditions of climate change are politically creating political instability in the Middle East. We had a -- if you don't think ISIS had anything to do with climate change.  

HEGSETH: So now, we're saying --

HANNAH: I'm about to give you some read meat, Pete.  

KELLY: Well, he's saying ISIS has to do with climate change.  

HANNAH: I'm saying the drought in Syria that lasted from 2007 to 2010 created instability. And so these things aren't too unrelated. I'll give Pete that. Go ahead, Pete. Take it away.

HEGSETH: Well, no, that is exactly the Talking Point on the Left and will continue to be because they have no ideological way to --  

HANNAH: Pete, that's not the Left.

KELLY: Hey, that's Pete's turned.

HANNAH: Pete, you served in the military. I don't know what rank you were. But Admiral David Hinkley is telling us that --  

KELLY: Hey --


It's Pete's turn. Go ahead, Pete.  

HANNAH: Okay. Go ahead.

HEGSETH: No, I mean, the point is that this is what the left has done and will do in ad nauseam is because they're unwilling to actually, fervently fight radicalism, call the threat for what it is. They have to then find some what it is.

HANNAH: Who cares with they call with Obama into kingdom come.

HEGSETH: No. No you are not. You're doing -- you're using body counts and sortie numbers to talk about an obligation the president feels he has against ISIS. If he was really committed, he would talk about the resolve we have in Mosul or in Raqqa or in Syria -- Libya, where Islamist are forming their caliphate to strike us in the west. Instead, he's talking passionately about the weather as if the weather is what caused ISIS.

HANNAH: It's just the weather.

HEGSETH: It's just like -- you know what, that is.

HANNAH: It doesn't pose an existential threat. And this is what -- I mean, there is a political dimension to this, too because more than twice as many voters in critical swing states of Colorado, Virginia, Iowa, states that republicans need to win, know that climate change is man-made and it does poses an existential threat to us.

HEGSETH: Do you think they think it causes terrorism?

HANNAH: This is, this is -- no, but Pete.

HEGSETH: Why they -- it's why they attack us?

HANNAH: Pete, if you don't think climate change had -- this is the Pentagon that says climate change is.

HEGSETH: I don't agree with everything our Pentagon is doing right now.

HANNAH: OK. Well, you can say you can catch your commander-in-chief all you want on national television.

KELLY: Well, it's OK who acknowledge that.

HANNAH: Yeah, a republican defense secretary who said that.

KELLY: I got to go. I got to go.

HANNAH: It's a republican.

KELLY: Good to see you both.

HANNAH: Good to see you, Megyn.

HEGSETH: Thanks.

KELLY: Also tonight, after weeks of watching protests for college students are more worried about feelings than free speech. The college president says he has enough. We got his story tonight.

Plus, Donald Trump is pushing back against claims that he mocked a reporter's birth defect. Steve Hayes and former Trump Advisor Roger Stone are here on that, next.


KELLY: Breaking Tonight, Donald Trump under new fire after series of alleged exaggerations or critics say lies. Early this morning, the campaign cancelling a public event with more than 100 African-American pastors, the campaign said these pastors wanted to get together to endorse Trump, but as it turns out, that wasn't the case, and it's quickly became a private meeting instead. Also today, Mr. Trump standing by his claim that he saw thousands, thousands of people in New Jersey celebrating after the September 11th attacks. When a journalist challenged Trump's story, Trump was accused of going after the reporter, specifically, of mocking that reporter's birth defect. Watch here.


DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is 14 years ago, he still - - they didn't do a retraction.


KELLY: All right, hold on. We're gonna play a full bite for you in one second. We are joined on all of this by Steve Hayes, he's a senior writer for The Weekly Standard and Roger Stone, who is a former Trump political advisor, but we are going to set it up for you with Trace Gallagher. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Megyn, after meeting with African- American ministers, Donald Trump said he saw the love in the room. The question is how many endorsements will he take out of the room? Organizers of the meeting would only say that some of the black pastors have committed to Trump and the rest are praying on it, but some of the pastors deny endorsing Trump. And a group of other black religious leaders are angry the meeting happened in the first place writing in Ebony magazine, quoting here, "Mr. Trump routinely uses overtly divisive and racist language on the campaign trail. Most recently, he admitted his supporters were justified for punching and kicking a Black protester who attended a Trump rally with the intent to remind the crowd that "Black Lives Matter." Trump said perhaps the person should have been roughed up. Meantime, Donald Trump is standing by his claim that on 9/11, he saw thousands and thousands of cheering Arabs in New Jersey, celebrating the World Trade Center collapse. Here's Trump defending that on Meet the Press.


CHUCK TODD, "MEET THE PRESS" SHOW HOST: You are running for president of the United States. Your words matter.

TRUMP: This is.

TODD: Truthfulness matters.

TRUMP: Chuck.

TODD: Fact-based matters.

TRUMP: Take it easy, Chuck, just play cool. I have a very good memory Chuck. I'll tell you, I have a very good memory. I saw it somewhere on television many years ago and i never forgot it.


GALLAGHER: To back up the unsubstantiated claim, Trump cited a 2001 Washington Post story that mentions the celebration, but the man who wrote the story, Serge Kovaleski says, he wrote nothing about thousands or even hundreds of people. Kovaleski also suffers a chronic disease affecting his arm movement and many believed Donald Trump was mocking him when he did this. Watch.


TRUMP: The Washington Post writes an article, written by a nice reporter. Now the poor guy, you got to see this guy, oh, I don't know what I said. Ah, I don't remember. Please don't lie. I don't remember, oh, maybe that's what I said.


GALLAGHER: Trump says he wasn't mocking. In fact, despite his self - proclaimed amazing memory, Trump said he doesn't remember the reporter's name. Kovaleski says, he's known trump for years, and it's on a first name basis -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining me now Steve Hayes, Fox News contributor and senior writer for The Weekly Standard, and Roger Stone who is former Trump campaign political advisor and former advisor to President Nixon, good to see you both. Steve, how would you describe this series of events?

STEVE HAYES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, look, we have a joke at the Weekly Standard that fact-checking Donald Trump is like picking up after a dog with diarrhea. There really isn't much point. At a certain point, there is not much you can do. And I think the string of misrepresentations I would call them lies that Donald Trump has told as recounted there by Trace Gallagher, makes that point pretty clearly, and a really sad kind of way that this is what our politics has become.

KELLY: Roger, you telling me that motion he did with the hands was not an attempt to mock a reporter who has covered him for 20 years, with whom he is on a first name basis?

ROGER STONE, FORMER TRUMP POLITICAL ADVISOR: Look, I very clearly remember when candidate Barack Obama went on with Jay Leno and made fun of kids in a Special Olympics.

KELLY: It's not about Barack Obama.

STONE: And he didn't have this, he didn't have this kind of.

KELLY: It's about Donald Trump.

STONE: But he didn't have this kind of media uproar. I think what's happened here is Trump scared the daylights out of the ruling elite and by the.

KELLY: It's a dodge.

STONE: And by the (inaudible) media and therefore.

KELLY: Why don't you stay in the rink?

STONE: Other candidates don't take.

KELLY: That stop getting out of the rink, stay in the rink. Was he mocking that reporter or wasn't he?

STONE: I don't think he was. I mean.

KELLY: Really?

STONE: I was around Trump in the '80s and '90s when the Kovaleski said he covered him from the Daily News. I have no remember -- memory of him. Trump is said he doesn't know him.

KELLY: Trump said he has the most.

STONE: Trump would say.


KELLY: Wonderful memory in the world, the most wonderful memory in the world.

STONE: He does have a good memory.

KELLY: And in his recent statement where he did the physical imitation.


KELLY: He said, "Look at him." And he described him as nice.

HAYES: And in his recent statement, Megyn.


KELLY: Look, you're telling me that's not (inaudible).

HAYES: He said he might want to meet him again. In Trump's recent statement, he said.

STONE: Let's go back to the larger.

HAYES: When I meet him or if I meet him again. Look, it's very clear that that was he was doing. He introduced the entire gesticulating by saying, "You out to see this guy," and then he imitated him. It's clear. It's just like saying that when talked about Carly Fiorina's face, he really meant her persona. I mean, there are so many of these that anybody inclined to get Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt at this point are an idiot.

KELLY: Go ahead, Roger. I mean, that's the thing.

STONE: Can we go back to.

KELLY: You might be inclined.

STONE: Can we go back to.

KELLY: Let me set it up and I will you the floor.

STONE: Go ahead.

KELLY: You might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he hasn't done -- if he hadn't done this so, so often. Where he said something controversial and then he looks at you -- then you look at him and you say, "I understand what you are saying." And he says, "You're a deviant if you think that." Or he say Carly Fiorina, "Look at that face," and then he says, "It's not her face, it's her persona." Where he says, "I never would have said to Afghanistan was a mistake." And then you look back two weeks later, to the same show and he's saying, "Afghanistan was a mistake." And on and on, it goes. I can give you five more.

STONE: OK. Let's go back to a larger question, which is whether or not there are Muslims in this country who celebrated the attack on America on 9/11. I believe there are.

KELLY: How is that a larger question?

STONE: There are.

KELLY: That's a dodge.

STONE: Because that's what the story.

KELLY: That's not what they issue.

STONE: Because that's story was about, because that's what the story.

KELLY: What this.

STONE: Was about.

KELLY: What this story is about is whether the frontrunner on the GOP side for president is an honest person. That's what we're discussing.

STONE: In all honesty, I remember when I worked for Ronald Reagan, and he would read things for example, Redwood trees caused pollution. And he would say that and there would be immediate firestorm, but the larger, the larger question, whether the continent was (inaudible) or not it was about environmental extremism. In this case, Trump is making a point about.

KELLY: You're making a larger point. Steve, let me ask you.

STONE: Muslim extremism.

KELLY: That this is, this is what happens. This is what Trump's lawyer was doing on another channel early tonight. They just go to a different place. It doesn't matter whether he tells the truth. You know he's got it right in spirit. And clearly, Trump supporters -- they agree. They -- so you tell me whether the Republican Party is likely to have a problem with this or not?

HAYES: Well, I think they ought to have a problem with this. I mean, look, Roger Stone is one of the best in the business with this. And I -- and he makes a case, I do think it was a dodge, but he makes the best case that there is to make on behalf of Donald Trump. But what Trump said in his claims about 9/11, he made a very specific claim. He wasn't making a big claim. He said that as the towers fell, he watched on television as thousands and thousands of Muslims celebrated in New Jersey. There are five different specific details there. Almost none of them are true. It may be the case that some Muslims celebrated somewhere in America. Certainly, we know that there is video of Muslims celebrating in the Gaza strip. That's not what Trump said. Trump made a specific claim. And what's really telling is that we heard him have to address this now four different times, and he is standing by a claim that he knows to be erroneous and he's now embracing, if you believe it, retweets are embracing, conspiracy theories that the media have the tapes that he was talking about, but just won't air them. I mean, this is now crazy time.

KELLY: Roger also separated from the Trump campaign after he felt that Mr. Trump was getting too close to the personal attacking line of presidential campaigning and not substantive enough. So that should be mentioned as well, great to see you both.

STONE: Thanks for having me.

KELLY: Well, we also have big developments tonight in the Freddie Gray case, as jury selection begins for the first of six officers, and the problem, quickly, becomes apparent. Judge Andrew Napolitano is next with a warning on the challenge for the defense.


KELLY: Major developments in the case of Freddie Gray as jury selection for one of the police officers charged in connection with his death, finally begins today. Almost half of those potential jurors interviewed said they have either been investigated charged or locked up by police or victimized by criminals. Judge Andrew Napolitano is our Fox News senior judicial analyst and the New York Times best-selling author, Judge, good to see you. So that's a problem, potentially.

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: Well, it is a problem and the judge's obligation is to interrogate, face to face, just like you and I are speaking now. Each potential juror to say, OK, you had this experience with the cops, yourself, can you put it out of your mind and judge this person fairly? We have a police officer who is a defendant. We have police officers who will gonna testify in behalf of the government. Can you look at this dispassionately? What do you know about the case? Whatever you know about it, whatever opinions you formed.

KELLY: Well, let me answer that for you.

NAPOLITANO: To put that out of your head.

KELLY: Because -- first of all, if you have been a victim of a crime, you may be pro-police, because you know, you go, you report the crime. Maybe it gets investigated.


KELLY: So you will never know which way that rubs. But they were asked of the 75 to 80 potential jurors who were questioned in the first pool, every single one indicated they were familiar with the case and with the city's $6.4 million settlement.


KELLY: Civil case.

NAPOLITANO: The most troubling aspect of this case. When a series of events give rise to both a criminal proceeding and a civil proceeding, it is the rule of thumb, everywhere in the United States of America the civil proceeding is put aside until the criminal case is resolved.

KELLY: So as not to prejudice the results of the criminal trial.

NAPOLITANO: Correct. In the criminal trial you're talking about human freedom, and in the civil case, you're talking about dollars. Dollars are fungible, they can wait.

KELLY: And the burden.


KELLY: It's so much easier in a civil case.


KELLY: Than a criminal case.

NAPOLITANO: But the government here gave away, gave away $6.4 million to Mr. Gray's family. What does that tell the jury, the employer of the police thinks about those police? Whether that's articulated in the courtroom or not, that is the most difficult obstacle for this judge to get over that, can you put that out of your mind? And then, even when they say to you, "Judge, I can put it out of my mind," you have to make a subjective evaluation, do I believe this person? Can they really put this out of their mind? Or they want to get on this jury to bring out a predetermined ends result, which is not what juries are supposed to do.

KELLY: What if that does that -- does the public pressure have on these jurors? Because obviously, this case has been covered to quite an extent, and even today, there was chanting -- there where protesters chanting outside of the courtroom, the defense did not object, and there was no obvious reaction from the jury pool, but they hear that. They know they are being watched carefully.

NAPOLITANO: I think the public pressure is terrific. Had I been the judge in this case, I would have granted a motion for a new venue, meaning more the trail to Annapolis or another major city in Baltimore, whether the public pressure is less.

KELLY: Outside of Baltimore.

NAPOLITANO: Outside of Baltimore, thank you, where the public pressure is less. Look, the judge has two jobs here. The government has to get a fair shot and the defendants have to have all of their constitutional rights protected. The right to a fair trial means a scrupulously neutral jury as oblivious to public pressure as is humanly possible.

KELLY: Quick question before I let you go. Who is the best juror? What's the best type of juror for the defense, in a case like this?

NAPOLITANO: Someone who has had no familiarity with the police and can judge this behavior dispassionately. Because the defense is gonna put on an expert witness who will say, "Here's what the police are supposed to do, and here's exactly what they did."

KELLY: No familiarity. So they're gonna go with Dr. Carson and he's next to Jordan and get somebody over there. It was no familiarity with this case.

NAPOLITANO: I don't think it's he's gonna be.

KELLY: Or with the police.

NAPOLITANO: On this case.

KELLY: Great to see you.


KELLY: Up next, the college president strikes back against the self- absorbed college students. And we'll show you the message that has now gone viral.


ANNOUNCER: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File" with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: Well, after months of student protests popping up across the nation about insulting words, one college president is telling students school is a place to learn, not to be a cupcake. I mean, coddled. Trace Gallagher is live in our west coast newsroom with the story, Trace?

GALLAGHER: Megyn, it all began when a student at Oklahoma Wesleyan University attended a chapel sermon, the homily was about love, but the student was offended because the sermon made him feel bad for not showing love, and he felt the preacher was wrong for making him and his peers feel uncomfortable. Now at this point, you would think someone would have immediately held the student by the hand and escorted him to a safe zone. Instead, the university's president Everett Piper issued a dose of reality. In an open letter to the student he wrote, quoting here, "This is not a day care. This is a university." Going on to say, quote, "Our culture has actually taught our kids to be this self-absorbed and narcissistic, anytime their feelings are hurt, they are victims. Anyone who dares challenge them and, thus, makes them feel bad about themselves is a hater, a bigot, an oppressor and a victimizer." The president even added some advice specifically for the young man whose feelings were hurt, writing, quote, "If you want to complain about a sermon that makes you feel less than loving for not showing love, this might be the wrong place for you." We don't know if the student responded, but others called President Piper loose cannon. Piper then told, quoting, "What we have right now is an argument for ideological fascism. You must submit. You must agree. You must be one of us. And if you don't, we will silence you. We will crush you." Oklahoma Wesleyan is a Christian university, Megyn.

KELLY: Dr. Piper who submitted his resignation shortly -- no, just kidding. I was kidding. Trace, thank you. We'll be right back.


KELLY: Well, as we head into the holiday season, we want to acknowledge those moms and dads who will be spending their holiday in the NICU. Each year, one in ten babies in the United States is born prematurely, and November is Prematurity Awareness Month. Shannon Wilson, who is a friend of "The Kelly File" and mother of two preemies, wrote The Littlest Peanut to help parents navigate this difficult time. Her book has been used in a number of hospitals and it could help you or anyone who has a bundle of joy arrive on this earth ahead of schedule. You can find out more by going to Thanks for watching, everybody. I'm Megyn Kelly, this is "The Kelly File."

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.