Gov. John Kasich's plan for destroying ISIS; Does the US have the intel resources to prevent terrorism?

GOP candidate weighs in on Obama's strategy, Syria and the refugee crisis on 'Hannity'


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," November 20, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX CORRESPONDENT:  This is a Fox News Alert.  I'm Steve Harrigan in Paris.

Belgium has raised its terror alert to what officials say are serious security concerns, especially for the city of Brussels.

In the meantime, in the West African country of Mali, Islamic extremists took over a luxury hotel for several hours, holding more than100 people hostage until they were overpowered by police.  At least three or four gunmen involved, their allegiance not clear at this point.

By the end of the day, at least 20 people were killed, including one American.  The responsibility has been claimed by a local al Qaeda affiliate.  It's not clear whether they were acting in support of the Islamic State or perhaps in competition with them.

In the meantime, French police say a third body has been discovered at the site of a massive battle between terrorists, police and military just outside of Paris Wednesday morning.  Forensic specialists are trying to identify that body.  It's the same scene where the ringleader, Abaaoud, was killed by police alongside his 26-year-old cousin, a woman.

New video is coming to light about the movements of Abaaoud around the time of the attacks.  He was seen near a Metro, caught on security video footage just after one of the attacks on a cafe, raising the possibility that the planner could have also been a shooter.

Now back to "Hannity."

DAVID WEBB, GUEST HOST:  Welcome to this special edition of "Hannity: Obama's ISIS Strategy."  I'm David Webb, in tonight for Sean.

Ever since ISIS started gaining attention for its reign of terror in the Middle East, President Obama has underestimated the group's abilities and has failed to come up with a legitimate plan to defeat the growing threat.  The White House sat on its hands while ISIS swallowed up large parts of Syria and Iraq, targeted and savagely killing women, children, and Middle Eastern Christians.

Time and time again, this administration has told us to trust them and that defeating ISIS would take time, but we're still waiting for them to deliver.  Watch this.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  My fellow Americans, tonight I want to speak to you about what the United States will do with our friends and allies to degrade and ultimately destroy the terrorist group known as ISIS.

This is going to take time.  There are going to be many challenges ahead.

The battle-hardened elements of ISIS that grew out of al Qaeda and Iraq during the course of Iraq war...

It's going to take time for us to be able to roll them back.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE:  The overall effort is going to take time.  There are challenges ahead, but we are going to do what is necessary to take the fight to ISIL.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  This is something that's going to take time, and it certainly going to demand patience.

OBAMA:  It's going to take time to dislodge these terrorists, especially from urban areas.  But our coalition is on the offensive.  ISIL is on the defensive.

EARNEST:  Building up the capacity of a willing and capable local fighting force is going to take time.

OBAMA:  I'm confident that although it is going to take time and there will be setbacks and lessons learned...

The strategy that we are putting forward is the strategy that ultimately is going to work.  And as I said from the start, it's going to take time.


WEBB:  So with the recent attacks in Paris and ISIS investigations in all 50 states right here in America, we're out of time.

Here with reaction, 2016 presidential candidate Ohio governor John Kasich.  Governor, good to see you again.


WEBB:  Protecting the homeland, one of the -- it's the job of the president, the job of the federal government.  And we don't have a strategy and we don't have protection.  Let's start with where this administration could have acted, in your opinion.

KASICH:  Well, David, you know, you and I have been talking about this for a long time.  As you know, I do have a full plan now as to how to take it to them and destroy ISIS, but I've been talking about it for months.

In fact, things like the need to put a coalition together not just of our European friends but also our allies in the Middle East.  And when you think about the first Gulf war, where I remember the Egyptian ambassador standing in the Rose Garden saying, We're all united -- we have to go as a coalition and we have to go and destroy them.

And doing this kind of piecemeal approach is not going to work.  And the least we should be doing is creating these no fly-zones with sanctuaries now so that people who are trying to flee have a place to go where they can be protected not only by our air support but perhaps by Kurdish forces who would stop anybody from coming into the sanctuaries.

It has been delayed, delayed, delayed.  You remember the red lines in Syria.  That created great confusion with our allies, and to some degree people are starting to wonder where the heck is America.  And we got to lead, David!  You and I have talked about this over and over again.

WEBB:  You know, let's break down what you just said into a couple of components.  One, actions we could have taken and creating areas over there where we now have a refugee crisis, four million people displaced.  Could there be a safe zone for them over there?  We'll get into the refugee resettlement after this.

KASICH:  Well, I think there can be.  I mean, you create the no-fly zones, and as I like to say, if somebody flies in the first time, we might let them fly out, but they won't fly out the second time.  And you can create sanctuaries where people can go.

But David, even before that, it was well over a year ago that I had argued and called John McCain and John Boehner to suggest that the administration needed to support the opposition to Assad because we know that Assad is in a connection between Iran, Assad and Russia.  And yet, we did not aggressively fund the opposition to Assad.  It was a terrible mistake.

Now we are where we are, but now these no-fly zones can offer a refuge, a sanctuary, and also assert ourselves in the Middle East so we begin to show leadership, and by the way, also, of course, strongly provide what the Kurds need.  They are the one group that's been successful in fighting ISIS in the Middle East.  And you know, the Kurds are very powerful force, including in Syria.  We have to work with them.  They have a lot of the same views that we do.

WEBB:  The Kurds, of course, Westernized.  They can only take so much territory.  Sanctuary areas, if we create them -- who protects them?  Who keeps them from becoming yet another camp that goes downhill?

KASICH:  Well, I think that's a case where we could involve the Jordanians, as well as the Kurds.  I mean, there are a lot of people there that want to help.  They want to be part of an effort to try to stabilize at least those sanctuary areas.

It's going to take work.  It's going to take conversation.  But I think it's essential we do that.  The president the other day said, Well, no-fly zones, but then what would we do?  And I mean, that's a question he ought to be able to answer.

But furthermore, forget all of that.  We need to be moving quickly to destroy this group, to be wherever they are with a coalition of people because, frankly, it's an attack on Western civilization.  We look in Europe and we see what is happening there.  And believe me, these nations in the Middle East, it's a threat to them, as well.

WEBB:  It's a global threat, and it's based on and ideology, regardless of the name attached.  But here we have Assad and here we have ISIS.  If we take out ISIS, we have Assad.  If we take out Assad, we have ISIS.  If we take out both, we have a vacuum.  A President Kasich looks at this, what do you do in that case?

KASICH:  Well, first of all, taking out ISIS -- we can't worry about, you know, what kind of a vacuum we're creating.  We need to destroy them.  And we have to win the battle of ideas, by the way, to let people know in this world that our Western ethic is really under attack.  And it represents equality for women.  It also respects education and science and progress and humanity.  And so that is critical.

And when it comes to removing Assad, there are a number of groups that will be settled in there, but it is not our job to try to get Sunni and Shia and -- to live together peacefully.  That's not our job to nation- build them.  We get into that position, David, in my opinion, things don't work out very well.

And we've seen the problems in Iraq when you take a look at Sunni and Shia who have been fighting for centuries.  You know, let them do what they have to do, support the Kurds who we supported over the years, and let things settle out.

WEBB:  Let's bring this to the homeland.  The first job we mentioned of the president, of the federal government, protect the homeland, the resettlement issue of refugees from Syria, a hot topic, given what happened in Paris.  An analysis of ISIS-inspired disruptions in the homeland from January 2014 to September 2015 -- I shared that with you, and you can see that on the screen right now.  They are acting.  Their actors are here.

KASICH:  We just arrested somebody two weeks ago in Akron, Ohio, through the Joint Terrorism Task Force.  And those are local operations.  Those are FBI.  They're law enforcement.  They're state troopers.  They come together.  They perform human intelligence.  They get ahead of the curve and they disrupt.  That's what they're there to do.

We have one big problem that needs to be resolved, and that's the growing problem of encryption, where these radical groups can talk to one another, and we do not have the ability to hear them even when we suspect that they want to bring about violence.

That needs to be changed.  And we need to make sure that what we have with the Joint Terrorism Task Force has enough resources.

In terms of refugees, as you know, I and 29 or 30 governors said that it's time to take a break.  We're not going to invite people in who we can't tell them who they are.

And you know, the administration says, Oh, we can -- we can determine it.  Well, when the intelligence community says -- leaders of it say, We don't know who they are -- we cannot bring people into this country who could come in here with the potential to disrupt and bring about real harm to our people.

WEBB:  So just to be clear, you would halt right now until you get a structure.

KASICH:  Oh, yes.  Yes, I would.  And look, I mean, the administration says interviews, interviews, interviews.  We're not against refugees when we can determine who they are.  We're in favor of immigration.  Most of us wouldn't be here if we didn't support that.

But in this case, take a pause.  Do not bring any of these folks in here because it is a threat to our -- could be a real threat to our country.

WEBB:  Presidential candidate and Ohio governor John Kasich, good to see you again, sir.

WEBB:  Thank you, sir, David.

WEBB:  Coming up, ISIS is promising more attacks in France and right here in America, and new reports say the terror group is trying to produce chemical weapons.  Former Navy SEAL Leif Babin and Fox News national security analyst K.T. McFarland will weigh in next.

And later tonight...


OBAMA:  Now, first, they were worried about the press being too tough on them during debates.  Now they're worried about 3-year-old orphans.  That doesn't sound very tough to me.


WEBB:  President Obama mocking Republicans while ignoring the fact that ISIS could infiltrate Syrian refugees coming to America.  Congressman Lamar Smith and Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn -- they'll respond later.

That and more on this special edition of "Hannity."


WEBB:  Welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity: Obama's ISIS Strategy."  In the wake of last week's deadly attack in Paris, an emboldened ISIS appears to be getting even more aggressive.  In fact, the deranged terror group released videos this week vowing to carry out attacks in our largest city, New York, and our capital, Washington, D.C.  But that's not all.  According to multiple reports, ISIS is also aggressively trying to produce chemical weapons.

Is it time for President Obama to change his ISIS strategy?  Joining us now to respond, the author of "Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win," Leif Babin, and Fox News national security analyst K.T. McFarland.  Good to see you both.

K.T., as someone who's been through multiple White Houses, multiple administrations, let's look at it from that top level down, the strategy.  Do we actually have an effective strategy?

K.T. MCFARLAND, FOX NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST:  Well, the president thinks he has a strategy.  I think here's what the strategy is.  He's not going to defeat or deter or destroy ISIS.  He's going to just kick it down the can.  So he wants a strategy that just buys him a little time personally so he can then look back and say, Look, it was Bush's fault that we went into Iraq and my successor's fault that we lost.

So no, I don't think he has a strategy at all and he certainly doesn't have a strategy to win.  And the problem with that is that other countries look to us.  He may think that he's leading from behind, but the rest of the world, the civilized world is looking for American leadership.  They know we don't do this without American leadership.

WEBB:  Are they as confused as the average person who looks and says, Oh, the president said we have a coalition, now President Hollande says he needs a coalition to fight ISIS, and our allies stand there and go, What do we do?


WEBB:  Yes.

MCFARLAND:  Well, look, the president within hours of the Paris attacks said ISIS was contained.  You have Secretary Kerry saying al Qaeda is on the run.  Within hours, there was another attack in Mali by al Qaeda.

So no, we do not have this under control.  And they can talk about how we have a coalition and the president said, My strategy works.  
Everything's just fine.  I'm not going to do a thing different.  But nobody believes him.

WEBB:  Leif, the war fighter's perspective -- "Extreme Ownership."  Look, the world has to own this problem in the sense of dealing with it realistically from that perspective, assets on the ground.  Look at it from the war fighter's perspective.

LEIF BABIN, "EXTREME OWNERSHIP" AUTHOR:  Well, we've got -- we've got U.S. military personnel on the ground in Iraq that are working their tails off right now, doing all that they can to hammer ISIS within the serious constraints that have been placed on them by the commander-in-chief.  So we've got great folks there.  We've got to just allow them to do their jobs.

And you know, the very limited rules of engagement, the total prohibition on ground combat operations in any significance -- we're not going to defeat ISIS with simply containment and air power alone.

WEBB:  So releasing (ph) those rules of engagement -- we have calls for that now coming out of Washington, D.C.  But the president's still the commander-in-chief.  Is the military structure going to go against the president, you think, on this?

BABIN:  Well, at the end of the day, they're going to follow the commander-in-chief and they can only carry out orders as they're given and they're restricted as those orders are placed on them.

So I mean, that's the way our military works.  And so -- but we've got the right people there.  We just -- we need to give them -- we need a clear mission with a clear instinct (ph) for them.  And we need give them all the support they need.

And look, it's going to require some U.S. ground combat to go in there and actually take back some of these cities like Ramadi, Model.  We can lead the fight.  America has to lead in order to develop Sunni partner (ph) forces on the ground to work with to get our Arab coalition partners in the fight.  America has got to lead this fight.  It doesn't take reinvasion with hundreds of thousands of troops.  We can do it with a small number of troops, but we have to lead.

WEBB:  You know, K.T., this is not just a case of ISIS.


WEBB:  As you mentioned, the Mali attacks -- that's an al Qaeda group which, by the way, has its own long history of attacks.  We have similarities to Mumbai when it comes to Paris.  So different groups acting, competing, whatever the case may be, and a policy that's missing and a vacuum.  If we take out ISIS, you leave Assad.  If you take out Assad, you leave ISIS.  If you take out both, you leave a vacuum.

So global policy on this -- we know where the U.S. is.  We know where this administration is.  I agree, they're going to leave it and walk it off so the president goes out the door.  So what about a global approach to this?

MCFARLAND:  Well, we need a global approach.  And why?  Because it's global jihad.  I mean, we've seen -- we've chased them out of Afghanistan, right?  They went into Pakistan.  So we got al Qaeda in Pakistan.  We killed bin Laden.  Where did they go?  They went to Iraq.  We got them out of Iraq.  They went to Syria.

Now they're also in North Africa.  They're in Libya.  They're throughout.  They go all the way from the Atlantic Ocean all the way to -- really, to Afghanistan.  This is a global fight, and we're looking at it in a piecemeal way.

Getting ISIS and destroying ISIS and destroying the Islamic State -- that's step number one, but that's not a sufficient condition.  It's necessary to do that, but if we don't attack the entire global jihad of it-- and it doesn't mean military forces.  It means economic power.  It means diplomatic power.  It means ideological power.  It's means talking to the Muslim clerics, who aren't stepping up to say, We got a problem within our religion.  It's all of those things.

And again, America is the only country that can lead.  We've done this before.  We did this during World War II.  We did this in the cold war.  We know how to lead.  We know how to assemble the civilized world to stand up to radical movements throughout.  It's just that we're not doing it.

WEBB:  So let me put this to both of you because forces -- you've got Russia, the Charles de Gaulle, the nuclear carrier sent there by the France...


WEBB:  ... by the French -- do our forces have the ability to work together?  Who -- who's the command?  What's the command and control, Leif?  How does this work?

BABIN:  Well, again, America has to lead this fight, and we can't expect that others are going to step up and take it on.  We have to lead it.  And -- and I think America needs to be prepared to do that.  And our forces are willing to do it.  They just -- they just need authorization to do it.  They need ability to go out and execute.

WEBB:  K.T., competing interests, Russia versus us...


WEBB:  ... versus China...

MCFARLAND:  We're all -- you know, I go all around the world, and even enemies are saying, Hey, America, where are you?  We need you to step up to lead.

Who thought we would have to be looking to Putin to take care of the Middle East or that the French are stepping up.  We need American leadership.  The world wants us to do it.

And here's the risk if we don't.  If global jihad succeeds in the Islamic State, if they succeed in other places, then we are going to spend a generation of playing catch-up.  The people who are fighting, the people in Paris, they were preteens when September 11 happened.  We're now in the second generation of this fight, and it is by no means contained.  It is now growing.  It is in more places in greater strength than ever before.

And if this global jihad gets its hands on weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, dirty bombs, then we're in a world that we cannot even begin to imagine!

WEBB:  One of the concerns of the French government and the Belgian government.  "Extreme Ownership" -- great book -- "How Navy SEALs Lead and Win," Leif Babin.  K.T., always great to see you.

MCFARLAND:  Thanks, Dave.

BABIN:  Good to see you.

WEBB:  Coming up next on this special edition of "Hannity"...


OBAMA:  Now, first, they were worried about the press being too tough on them during debates.  Now they're worried about 3-year-old orphans.  That doesn't sound very tough to me.


WEBB:  President Obama mocks Republicans over concerns that ISIS could infiltrate the Syrian refugees who are coming to America.  But his top intel official says it's a real threat.  Congressman Lamar Smith of Texas, Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee -- they will respond next.

And later tonight...


HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Let's be clear, though.  Islam is not our adversary.  Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people and have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism.


WEBB:  The Democrats won't say ISIS is Islamic.  How can they fight an enemy they refuse to identify?

That and more is straight ahead on "Hannity."


WEBB:  And welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity: Obama's ISIS Strategy."  In the wake of the deadly terrorist attacks in Paris, the president has been lashing out against Republicans over their concerns that ISIS could infiltrate Syrian refugees who are coming to our country.  But according to top U.S. intelligence officials, this is a real concern.  Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Would that bring (ph) in Syrian refugees pose a greater risk to Americans?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It's clearly a population of concern.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The concern is in Syria, the lack of our footprint on the ground in Syria, that the databases won't have the information we need.  So it's not that we have a lack of process, is there's a lack of information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  And that obviously raises grave concern as to be able to do proper background checks of individuals coming into the country.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  (INAUDIBLE) obviously, I don't put it past the likes of ISIL to infiltrate operatives among refugees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We can only query against that which we have collected.  And so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but we're not going to -- there'll be nothing show up because we have no record on that person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  There is some fear -- some fear that some of these refugees may actually be posing as refugees, but they might actually be al Qaeda or ISIS terrorists trying to sneak into Europe or the United States.  What do you make of that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Well, certainly, that's a possibility.  I mean, you can't -- you can't dismiss that out of hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We should be conscious of the potential that Daesh may attempt to embed agents within that population.


WEBB:  Here with reaction, Texas congressman Lamar Smith and Tennessee congresswoman Marsha Blackburn.  Good to see you both.

Let's get right into it.  You've been busy on the Hill.  We have bills on the floor.  We have proposals and now the resettlement issue.  First to you.  Ladies first, Congresswoman Blackburn.  A realistic approach to this?

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, R-TENN.:  A realistic approach is to stop what we're doing at the office of refugee resettlement.  Just put a halt to it.  Call a time-out because not only do they handle resettlement of refugees, they also handle the illegal alien population.  And David, as you know, we've got a problem there on the southern border with Texas.  We had eight Syrians that were captured there this week.

So let's call a time-out.  Let's make certain that we know who is coming in our country.  As they said in the tape that you were just playing, they don't know who these individuals are.  Many have false documents.  We don't have databases in Syria.

And when they come to the U.S., you do not know if the person they are going to is who they claim to be or if they're even in the country legally. And then there is no way to track those individuals.  So let's call a halt.

WEBB:  All right.  Congressman Smith, you are right there on the border, your state a border state.  We have five men arrested in Honduras with stolen and falsified passports from Greece.  We have a woman arrested in Costa Rica.  We have a porous southern border.  This is a security issue.

To me, this isn't a right or left issue.  This is a security issue.  It's not also about compassion.  We welcome people every year, 70,000 on average.  So what do we do about this at the border states?  What can you do in your state?

REP. LAMAR SMITH, R-TEXAS:  Right.  Well, you're absolutely right to be concerned.  Terrorists and others are going to take advantage of the weakest link we have.  We do have a porous southern border.  Some 300,000 to 400,000 people successfully cross the southern border illegally every year.  Among them could be a growing number of terrorists or would-be terrorists or terrorists in training.  So that's clear and present danger to the American people.

Now, the House just passed a bill that tried to protect the American people.  Our bill said that the FBI director need (ph) to certify that a Syrian refugee, for example, was not going to be a threat to the United States.  Yet the president of the United States has now threatened that very bill that seeks to protect the security of Americans!  It is absolutely astounding a president would do this.  So I hope the president will change his mind.

We passed this bill overwhelmingly, with bipartisan support.  This is a bill designed to protect the American people and make sure that our law enforcement authorities say that a Syrian refugee is not a threat to Americans.  Why the president wants to veto that, I have no good reason.

WEBB:  All right, let me go back to the Congresswoman.  Congresswoman, OK -- and for each of you, we've got about two minutes left, so let's put this in the context of, you have a veto-proof bill in the House.  You've got enough votes with the help of 47 Democrats.  You have a challenge in the Senate.

Can you get this through the Senate?  Will the Democrats filibuster this, do you think?

BLACKBURN:  I think the Democrats will try to filibuster it in order to protect the president.  What Mitch McConnell ought to do is to just get rid of the 60-vote margin!  Put this thing on the floor.  Make these guys in the Senate man up and take the votes that the House members have been taking!

We need to know where they stand.  Are they standing with protecting the American people, or are they going to protect Barack Obama, who has an ISIS strategy that does not work?  And we see that it does not work.

I tell you, I really appreciate Chairman Smith and Chairman McCaul...

WEBB:  All right...


WEBB:  Congressman Lamar, let me bring you into this.  Sorry, we've only got 30 seconds left.  Your final thought on this?

SMITH:  Sure.

WEBB:  We're not against refugees.  We want to help people.  But do we put a halt on it?  And then how do we fix it?  Can we fix it?

SMITH:  Absolutely.  First, we have to put a halt to the influx of Syrian refugees.  We have to be able to conduct background checks.  Our law enforcement says we cannot -- when you hear the president talk about three- year-old orphans, they're not the terrorists.  This president is coming up with a straw man that is trying to change the subject.  We have to do a lot more, and in order to do a lot more we have to stop the resettlement of refugees until we can check the backgrounds and until they can be properly vetted.  

WEBB:  Thank you Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, Congressman Lamar Smith.  

Coming up next on this special edition of "Hannity" --  


OBAMA:  To the degree that anyone would equate the terrible actions that took place in Paris with the views of Islam, those kinds of stereotypes are counterproductive.  


WEBB:  President Obama and the Democrats refuse to use the term "radical Islam."  How can they fight the terror group when they can't even admit what it stands for?  Peter Johnson Jr., Tammy Bruce, and Doug Schoen will weigh in next.  

And later, is the president doing enough to protect the homeland against the growing ISIS threat?  That and more.  Stay with us.     


STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  This is a Fox News alert.  I'm Steve Harrigan in Paris.  Belgium has raised its terror alert to the highest possible level, basically telling people to stay away from public places like airports or shopping malls due to the fear of a terrorist attack especially in the city of Brussels which may be imminent.  

In the meantime, the western African nation of Mali, more than four or five gunmen held up to 100 people hostage for several hours in a luxury hotel until they were overpowered by police.  By the end of the day at least 20 people were killed including one American.  It's not clear who bears responsibility for those hostages.  One local Al Qaeda affiliate is claiming responsibility, but it's not clear whether there are any attacks, any relationship to the attacks here in Paris, whether the actions were in support of the Islamic State or perhaps even in competition with it.  

In the meantime, police have announced a third body was found at the scene of a massive firefight between terrorist and French police and soldiers.  Already it's been the scene of the body of the ringleader in the shootings here in Paris.  Right now forensic experts are trying to work on that third body to see who it is.  New video, too, of that ringleader of the Paris attacks Abaaoud shows him at a metro station right near cafe where some of those attacks took place, really raising the possibility whether the man who planned the attacks might --

WEBB:  And welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity: Obama's ISIS strategy." Earlier this week Obama while talking about the terrorist attacks said this about ISIS.  


OBAMA:  ISIL does not represent Islam.  To the degree that anyone would equate the terrible actions that took place in Paris with the views of Islam, you know, those kinds of stereotypes are counterproductive.  They're wrong.  They will lead, I think, to greater recruitment in the terrorist organizations over time if this becomes somehow defined as a Muslim problem as opposed to a terrorist problem.  


WEBB:  Joining us now with reaction, Fox News contributors Doug Schoen, Tammy Bruce, and Fox News legal analyst Peter Johnson Jr.  Ladies first, Tammy.  Right in the center seat, you talk about a paradox between Obama and the Democrats.  

TAMMY BRUCE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Yes.  You know, it's really curious.  On one hand what they're saying is that Muslims are not Muslims if they're engaging in terrorism.  But that they're all potential terrorists if we do something that offends them.  So you this mixture of a problem here.  In other words, what's happening has nothing to do with Islam, but if we do offend them, then Muslims will join the cause.  

So you can't have it both ways.  I'm not quite sure what they're trying to accomplish here.  And I think most people kind of recognize that something is amiss in that framework.  And of course in not dealing with the reality of what Islam is and the nature of how it is connected with what is happening with ISIS, if we're trying to deal with this kind of a movement, you have got to deal with the adherents, with the nature of the choices they're making, and with the ideology itself.  

WEBB:  Doug, I want to go to you and put this into the mix.  


WEBB:  Are we insulting Muslims that they're not smart enough to know who the radicals are amongst them and who are the peaceful ones?  Because I get the point of the paradox.  

SCHOEN:  Yes.  I really I see this somewhat different way.  We have an extraordinary amount of terror around the world, largely but not exclusively committed by Muslims.  And we do not have a president who has a strategy to go after them and to eradicate terror wherever it comes from.  I am not into semantics.  I don't really want to spend a lot of time debating what we call them.  I want just to eliminate them.  The French are leading, the Russians, maybe not.  But we have to lead.  We have to exercise the scourge of terror wherever and whenever it is evident.  

WEBB:  All right, Peter, beyond the word games, I'm with all of you.  Get beyond the word game.  Get to the point of action.  

PETER JOHNSON, JR., FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST:  And I'm with them, too.  They both make sense on that issue.  It is a scourge beyond the word games.  But it is a political distraction by the president to engage in those word games because he has a failed policy.  He has an ineffective policy.  You can't have attacks killing hundreds of people on three continents over six weeks, eight or nine countries, and then somehow castigate, chastise, abusing the American people that somehow their Muslim-phobic, that somehow they're responsible in some way.  They're not responsible.  They're not Muslim phobic.  We know who the war is.  He needs to say who the war is.  But it gets back to what Doug is saying.  What are the tactics?  What's the strategy?  What's the win for America?  Not excuses and not blaming Americans and Republicans for his failures.  

WEBB:  So the strategist, go ahead.  

SCHOEN:  What peter said, and I think it was very articulate and intelligent, is we don't want to blame Republicans.  We want to unite with Republicans in a strategy because if ISIS comes here or Al Qaeda again, they're not going to ask party identification or ideology before they kill us.  We have to get them before they get us.  

JOHNSON:  Amen.  

SCHOEN:  It really is that simple.  

WEBB:  So let me throw this in real quick to Doug on the political strategy and then you to, Tammy, same idea.  The president plays word games, baits the Republicans into arguments and arguing over the name and strategy.  Is this pure politics, Doug?  

SCHOEN:  Sadly, it is.  I have to agree with Peter, because we don't need a president who is doing precisely what he describes our president doing.  We need a president providing bipartisan leadership to eliminate terror with a comprehensive strategy.  We don't have it.  

WEBB:  Tammy, go ahead.  

BRUCE:  The only thing that matters apparently at this point, even at the Turkey press conference just a day or two after the atrocities, he first talked about global warming.  He talked about inequality.  He talked about a bunch of things prior to mentioning like an afterthought the Paris attacks.  

The problem is terrorism has increased just from last year 80 percent.  This is a dynamic after Benghazi.  So we've been leading from behind for seven years and terrorism around the world has exploded.  We have retreated.  We have done nothing.  And this is what the result is. That alone puts the lie to the notion that we have been the problem.  

WEBB:  OK, let me go across the board real quick.  First to you, Doug, terrorism metastasizing around the world, is this the next level, the next generation of terrorism?  

SCHOEN:  I hope it isn't.  Tammy makes an important point.  The only point I quibble with, I don't think we've been leading at all whether from in front or behind.  We're doing nothing.  And that's the real problem.  

WEBB:  Metastasizing, getting worse?  

BRUCE:  Yes.  The problem is ISIS is now taking up the strategy of Al Qaeda, using lieutenants to do attacks in a broad based way.  Before then they were just relying on their main leaders.  So they're using Al Qaeda tactics and they're spreading around the world.  

JOHNSON:  We cannot accept it as the new norm in America or anywhere around the world.  That's an excuse for poor performance.  We need to be strong and we need to say to the Muslim communities, if you see something, say something.  That is going to be key to protecting America in the homeland.  

WEBB:  Doug Schoen, Tammy Bruce, Peter Johnson, great to see you.  

Coming up next on the special edition of "Hannity," in the wake of the new ISIS threat, is President Obama doing enough to keep Americans safe?  We'll discuss that and more next.  Stay with us.        
WEBB: And welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity: Obama's ISIS Strategy." Now that ISIS is threatening to attack us here at home, how will President Obama keep Americans safe?  

Joining us now with reaction, our former CIA operative Mike Baker, former NYPD detective Pat Brosnan, and former FBI special agent Manny Gomez.  Let me go right to it with Mike Baker.  Mike, looking at the global intelligence and where we are, we've lost a lot of human intelligence.  Technology doesn't do the job.  Does America and does the globe whether it's France or Russia or others, have enough intelligence to deal with this?  We saw a lot of lapses, a lot of mixed signals.  

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE:  You touched on a really important point.  It's been a problem we faced for, frankly, for decades when talking about, you know, the Middle East extremists, the Islamic extremist problem is human sources.  It's always been an area that, I mean, obviously you can always approve you Intel sources, but in particular when tracking these targets, terrorist targets, it's been difficult.  Very closed communities, very difficult to penetrate.  

And so we have relied very heavily in the past and still do on a lot of our liaison partners.  The Jordanians, the Saudis, the Israelis, a lot of good work goes on there in information sharing.  And increasingly, now obviously with France, you know, coming in in such an aggressive fashion as they should, we'll lean more heavily on their service.  And they have a very, very strong, very good Intel service.  

WEBB:  All right, let's go to the FBI perspective.  Manny, FBI of course is dispatched to France.  We have a legate office there.  We always have an attach,, because there's an American involved there that was killed tragically.  FBI counterterrorism, that global intelligence in protecting the homeland.  

MANNY GOMEZ, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT:  Well, we have had legates overseas before 9/11, and it's not much more robust after 9/11.  And our liaison efforts with the locals in France and Europe and the Middle East, Israel, Jordan, et cetera, is very robust.  And we're trying to get any and all intelligence possible to be able to help the homeland here in New York City and the rest of the country.   

WEBB:  All right, let me go to Pat Brosnan.  My guys on NYPD, I've known so many of them.  They're concerned.  You know, they sent me pictures of the Hercules team the night of the attack playing out.  Local law enforcement, you've CIA intelligence, you've got FBI responsibility.  But the folks walking through Times Square, or through Chicago, or through L.A., anywhere, be it our local police officers, are you getting enough from the federal government in intelligence to help you with your efforts?  

PAT BROSNAN, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE:  Absolutely not.  The problem is that it's not that we're not receiving it from them.  The fact is that we got outmaneuvered on this one.  We were clearly out-gamed.  Today's terrorist, based on the Paris attacks, is a far more clever, a far more cautious animal.  Let's look at it -- at least eight, seven locations, 129 dead in 33 minutes.  And not one whisper.  Not one syllable.  Not one fact recovered and gathered and conveyed through our apparatuses from the collection of the Intel.  

What happened here is they made their mistakes in the past and they learned from them.  They've changed their M.O. in a very significant way.  No more chatting on online forums, now more speaking with facilitators, no more falling for guys that we put in to get close to them, our undercovers.  These terrorists are ab. terrifying and they beat us at our own game.  There was not one peep, not one whisper.  These guys had to do their advance work, they had to do their training, they had to acquire weapons surreptitiously, vests, guns -- astonishing.  Nothing was known.  So there is no Intel.  This is a scary, scary, scary time.  And the word to lose is the word "if." The word to keep in mind is the word "when" when you're talking about New York City.  

WEBB:  All right, just a little bit of time left.  Mike, let me go to you first, Mike Baker, intelligence, whether they're using dark web, apps, encryption, point to point encryption, is there a way to get through this?  

BAKER:  There is.  But we're constantly playing this cat and mouse game.  And as Pat pointed out, they do learn.  They get smarter as we go along.  We have made it easier -- we didn't, but things such as the Snowden leak and then all the angst and handwringing over the past couple of years have made it easier for them.  Anything that tells the enemy, anything that tells terrorists how we do our work and our capabilities is going to obviously help them.  

WEBB:  I have to get our FBI guy Manny Gomez back in on this.  Manny, with what they said, can we do this?  Ten seconds.  

GOMEZ:  Absolutely we can do this.  But it starts off with our leadership.  When the president of the United States says we're not going to put boots on the ground, that's a policy decision and I respect that.  But why are we telling the enemy our strategy?  Why are we telling them our tactics?  

WEBB:  Mike Baker, Pat Brosnan, and Manny Gomez, thank you, gentlemen.  

Coming up, more "Hannity" right after the break. Stay with us.  


WEBB:  And that is all the time we have left this evening.  Thanks for being with us.  Sean is back on Monday.  Have a great weekend.  

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