Counterterror instructor's ISIS warning: Don't wait for Uncle Sam to protect you

Counterterrorism instructor for FBI explains need for citizens to stay alert on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 18, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, new information on an Islamic State terror video that appears to renew a threat against New York City. Less than a week after they attacked Paris, Islamic terrorists were already gearing up for a second attack in the city of lights, which French security teams stopped last night in a dramatic shootout. There are a lot of breaking news tonight on "The Kelly File."  Welcome, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

Just a couple of hours ago, the Islamic State terror group went up for the video that included praise for the attackers in Paris and then seemed to suggest a suicide bomb plot for Times Square. Just two blocks from the studio from which we bring you this show. The viral video shows several men, some speaking Arabic, some speaking French congratulating ISIS for the success of the French attacks. And then shows some images the group released back in April, images which include pictures of Times Square. And of the man seeming to armed himself with the suicide vest.

The NYPD has released a statement tonight saying it's aware of the video that it suggests New York City remains a top terror target. And it also says, it is deploying additional response teams around the city out of an abundance of caution. Remember, Times Square was the target of a bombing at the military recruiting center back in March of 2008. No one was hurt. No one was ever caught. Two years later, Faisal Shahzad constructed a car bomb and drove it to the heart of the city.

He's said, he was trying to avenge U.S. military intervention in Muslim countries. He's now serving a life sentence for his attempt on Times Square. And of course this city decided the most devastating terror attack in U.S. history when it lost 2,753 on September 11th, 2001. All of this comes roughly 12 hours after a violent raid in a suburb of Paris where more than a hundred officers engaged terror suspects. At least one of whom had wrapped herself in explosives police believed. In a gun battle that's so fierce it's hard to describe. The terrorist involved reportedly had plans to attack the Paris airport and the busy shopping mall. Here's just a little of what was caught on camera.


(Gun fires)



KELLY: On that one video, the gunfire goes on non-stop for another full minute. When the shooting and the explosions were done, the building and the suspects were hiding out had to be propped up. So, they did not collapse from the damage. Now, this location is just ten minutes from the stadium that was attacked last Friday. We're told police found the cell phone from one of the terrorists at the stadium and used it to discover this apartment building.

At one point, a woman with long blonde hair appeared in a window crying for help. Police told her to raise her hands. She steps back.  They opened fire. Moments later, a massive blast rocked the block. And now they believe that woman was strapped with a suicide bomb vest. And was trying to draw police closer before blowing herself up. Six hours after the raid began last night, it was over. Two people were dead, seven suspects were in custody, five officers were injured, a police dog was also killed. And what they found inside suggested that the terrorist had another attack in mind. One with the potential of being as deadly as what we saw last week.

Dr. Sebastian Gorka, a counterterror instructor for the FBI and U.S. Special Forces would be here in a moment.

Plus, Rick Leventhal has no reporting on the so-called ringleader of these terrorists in Paris. But first, the very latest on the terror plots broken up just hours ago in France. For that, we turn to Jake Wallis Simons, associate global editor for who is live in Paris after spending the day covering this raid.

Jake, thank you for being here. What can you tell us about this woman?

JAKE WALLIS SIMONS, ASSOCIATE GLOBAL EDITOR, DAILYMAIL.COM: Well, Megyn, first, thank you so much for having me on tonight. I've been speaking to eyewitnesses at Saint Denis, the district of Paris where this attack happened. And I've learned lots about this woman. We know -- we think that she is the cousin of the ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud. We know that she had appeared to have long, blonde hair. And, as you mentioned in your segment just now, that she was calling for help before she appeared to detonate her suicide vest.

However, I spoke to somebody who told me that he actually saw her the day before she was killed at about 3:30 in the afternoon emerging from the apartment where the terrorists were hulled up and going to a KFC to get some food and bring it back for her comrades. And he described her as having dark hair, dark frizzy hair. He said that she looks somewhat Brazilian in terms of her features. She was wearing a denim jacket and jeans and a white scarf. And that she seemed very relax and nonchalant as he didn't have any care in the world, very ordinary. Just going to pick up some food for her friends. We know that within a few hours of that time, she was dead.

KELLY: What can you tell us about the neighborhood in which these terror suspects were hiding out?

WALLIS: Well, the neighborhood is a poor and depraved area of Paris.  I spoke to some local officials and people on the local council there. And some of the women, members of the council said that they were never dare to walk in that neighborhood after dark. This is somewhere where violent crime is common. Petty crime is common. In fact, when I spoke they heard the shooting and saw the police on the streets, they were not particularly surprised. Because they're used to that kind of thing in that neighborhood. There's a large Muslim population and a growing problem with radicalization recently.

During the war in Gaza and most recent war in Gaza, there were riots on the streets where the youth took to the streets and attacked police officers. And, in fact, when the police, yesterday were searching a church as part of their investigation, one young man of Arabic decent shouted at them, you would never dare to do that to a mosque. So, this is the sort of the environment that that local, that locality has and clearly it's one in which terrorism can easily flourish.

KELLY: Uh-hm. Certainly is. Jake, thank you. We are also told that the landlord said, he was letting the people in that flat stay there for free and it was just a favor he was doing and he's now in police custody.  There was reporting earlier today that the ringleader of the Paris attack was killed in this overnight raid. But the French will not confirm that nor will they say who was in custody and who was dead.

Rick Leventhal is live in Paris tonight. He is been digging into the story of the most wanted man in the world right now. Rick.

RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, most Americans have probably never heard of Abdelhamid Abaaoud but he is Belgium's most famous Jihadi impart because he recruited his 13-year-old little brother to come to Syria with him and fight for ISIS. He's also known as one of ISIS' most prolific executioners and was responsible for planning multiple failed terror attacks including that Paris found train plot who was foiled by those three American heroes back in August. He's the son of a Moroccan shop keeper. He was a student of an upscale school in Brussels but morphed into an extremely professional commando according to the Belgian justice minister when he was radicalized in prison where he served time for petty crimes.

And he reported became close to the Abdeslam brothers in the Molenbeek neighborhood which is known for cultivating and harboring radical extremists to those brothers, as you know, were part of the Paris attacks.  One is dead and the other is now on the run. Abaaoud became known as a radical Muslim combatant in February of 2014 when he was filmed smiling at the wheel of a pick-up truck while dragging bodies from a mass execution.  And he was so hated back home that his own family celebrated when they heard that he might have been killed fighting in Syria according to the New York Times.

They have come to despise him and prayed that the news was true instead he was crisscrossing Europe, from Athens to Brussels to Syria and back and wound up in Paris coordinating the worst attacks on French soil since World War II. Now, Megyn, his reign of terror may be over, but we're still waiting for confirmation that he was killed in this morning's raid.

KELLY: Hmm. Rick, thank you. Well, our next guest says, Paris should be a wakeup call for every American. And that we should be ready to challenge things that looked out at the ordinary because we cannot wait for the police or the Feds.

Joining me now, Dr. Sebastian Gorka, he is the chair of military theory at the Marine Corp University. And he also served as a prosecution expert in the Boston bombing trial. He also runs  Dr. Gorka, thank you for being here tonight. So your position right now is that Paris is just the beginning and we need to rely on ourselves. What do you mean by that?

DR. SEBASTIAN GORKA, COUNTERTERROR INSTRUCTOR FOR FBI: Well, if you look at what's happened since the attacks on Friday, Megyn, it is clear that this wasn't just some spontaneous event done by people who have a grudge. This is organized. This is a network. This is international.  This woman, if the reports are true, tried to entice the police closer to that house so she can kill them with an explosive device that had been prepared to this eventuality. So the message is very clear, Megyn. This Jihad is real. The Jihad is global. And they want to bring it to the shorter America.

We have an adequal (ph) coming out in tomorrow's New York Post where we give you the stats. We have 82 ISIS suspects arrested in America in a 20-month period. And of those, a few 30 percent had no intention of going to Iraq or Syria to fight. They have decided to kill Americans on U.S. soil. As a result, don't wait for Uncle Sam to protect you. Every American has the duty and the responsibility to be aware of the threat and be prepared to protect themselves.

KELLY: What does that mean? I mean, there's no reasoning with these people. On Friday night, as the terror attack was unfolding, and we heard that there were up to a hundred hostages taken in that concert hall. One of the first guests we tried to book was a hostage negotiator. And, of course, that was ridiculous. Because there's no negotiating with these people. They just kill them. They killed them all. If they couldn't escape they were dead. So how are Americans supposed to think about protecting themselves?  

GORKA: OK. So, the first point, absolutely right. You don't negotiate with people who want to destroy you. That would be like negotiating with Hitler. No, you have to be tactically aware. If you're in a state, if you're in a municipality that allows you to carry a weapon, you should do so. You should get training, you should carry it, your members of your family that are prepared to do so likewise. But on top of that even more important than that, is you have to have tactical awareness.

I grew up in the U.K. during the deadliest years of the IRA.  Everybody was alert all of the time. If somebody put a bag down for moment on a troop train, on the subway, on the bus, within 60 seconds, a school kid, a grandmother would say, whose is that bag? And if nobody replies, that bus would be stopped, it would be evacuated and the police would be called. Do we have that mentality today in America? I'm not sure.

KELLY: How determined do you believe they are right now to launch an attack in America. In other words, is it more likely since they just had, quote, "success in Paris" or is it more likely that they lie low for a bit until the heat is less severe?

GORKA: I think if you read the magazine of ISIS. So, ISIS has an English language Jihadi magazine called Dabiq, and your watchers can check it out. d-a-b-i-q, it's their manual of Jihad. It is clear. Explicit.  Every issue. They want to take the war to America. I believe we have sleeper cells here already. Director Comey has said, they're up with the 900 investigations going only in all 50 states. So I would expected them to be encouraged by this event because it was successful. This is the largest targeting of civilians on French soil since the end of World War II. So this will be an encouragement to Jihadist in America.

KELLY: Doctor Gorka, thank you.

GORKA: You're very welcome. Thank you, Megyn, for having me.

KELLY: Coming up, the investigation into last week's Paris attacks turns to Belgium. And we will have a live report from a place described as one of the worst breeding grounds for Jihadists in all of Europe in his home.

Plus, ISIS is bragging about downing that Russian passenger jet and claiming they also went after an American ally. Chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge is next with the very latest on that.

And House Homeland Security Chairman Michael McCaul is here on fears of a terror attack here in the United States.

And then, in the wake of Paris, a former top-ranking CIA official says, we are on the cusp of World War III. Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer will weigh in on that. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe, is he overstating it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he's not. You know, I call it the great war of our time. Right? He calls it the third World War. I think in my mind, the same things.



KELLY: Breaking tonight. New insight into dark new claims from ISIS that they originally plan to down a passenger plane belonging to a western nation but instead set their sights on Russia. Just 24 hours after Russia announced indeed a bomb destroyed their passenger plane over Egypt last month, ISIS is now bragging about the alleged weapons they used and claiming that they could have taken down any plane they wanted. House Homeland Security Chairman Michael McCaul is here.

But we begin with our Chief Intelligence Correspondent Catherine Herridge live in Washington. Catherine?

CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, this is a new edition of the Islamic State online magazine. And I want to draw your attention to three key points. First who claims responsibility for the downing of the Russian Metrojet on October 31st in Sinai, Egypt. The propaganda magazine states that the original target was a jet from one of the nation's bombing ISIS as part of the U.S.-led coalition. But the plot was modified at the last minute when Moscow got involved and launched its own air strikes. The ISIS magazine reads in part, quote, "After having discovered a way to compromise the security at the Sharm El-Sheik International Airport, the target was changed to a Russian plane. A bomb smuggled on to the airplane leading to the death of 219 Russians."

Second, ISIS says, "This is the bomb that was planted on board." FOX News asked outside experts to assess the viability of the device, including explosive experts and former special operations. And they all came back skeptical noting there is no timer, no visible circuit board. And it was hard to imagine how two pounds of explosives, what the Russian say brought down the jet could be crammed into a soda can. Based on our reporting, the bomb was placed near the jets fuel lines where it connect with the engine for maximum impact.

Third, the online magazine makes no direct reference to the female suicide bomber in Saint Denis last night. We don't know why, but it suggests that this cell was separate and distinct from Friday's operations.  What experts call a highly compartmentalized plot, meaning none of these cells knew exactly what the others were doing. So, if the police arrested one cell, they couldn't derail the entire operation. And late today, telegram and encrypted messaging app confirming they have blocked 78 ISIS related accounts. Fox News is told there are indications telegram was used by accounts associated with the attackers -- Megyn.

KELLY: Catherine Herridge, thank you.

HERRIDGE: You're welcome.

KELLY: Joining us now, Congressman Michael McCaul. Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. Mr. Chairman, thank you for being with us tonight. And I know that today, you said if this is not a war, then I don't know what is. Why? Why did you say it that way?

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, R-TEXAS, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: We are at war. The president of France declared that, said it was an act of war, what happened in Paris. We don't want to see what happened in Paris, on the streets of Paris, happen in the United States. And, again, this Russian Airliner could have been an American airliner pointed at the United States, as well.

Look, they have raised their level of sophistication now. A new chapter now in ISIS, terrorism, we expected some of these from al-Qaeda.  Al Qaeda has failed since 9/11. Now, just recently, we see ISIS is capable of bringing down airlines and pulling out the Paris attack which is very sophisticated.

KELLY: Right. They're growing. They're growing. Here's my question to you. We watched that testimony by Director Comey before Congress a couple of months ago, the F.B.I. saying I don't have resources. It's a matter of time. I can't stop them all. And we just heard about the number of connected people who have been arrested or identified. And we were told earlier this week that we only have the capability of tracking about 60 to 70 of them on a 24/7 basis. So we're not nearly there. Not nearly there.  What's being done about that? What's being done to better fund the FBI?

MCCAUL: Well, I think the FBI does need more funding. The FBI has stopped so many bad things from happening. They have arrested 70 ISIS followers over the last year. That's more than one per week. And 900 investigations in all 50 state states it's the case you don't know about like Chattanooga, they can fall through the cracks. And I'll say this about Paris, it went virtually undetected and the reason why is that the terrorists were very sophisticated in their communication now in communicating what we call dark space. So even if we have a court order or a wiretap, we cannot see these communications coming from Morocco into the United States or from Raqqa into Belgium or Paris which is why they're able to pull off a very coordinated attack without any detection at all.

KELLY: Obviously one of the many things we're looking into. Tonight, the White House has issued a veto threat on a so-called pause bill that you are behind suggesting that we should just pause the influx of these Syrian refugees while we figure out where we stand. The White House says, no.  They're going to veto it saying it imposes unnecessary and impractical requirements. Your thoughts?

MCCAUL: Look, I don't think I'll be playing Russian roulette for national security. The Syrian refugee program can be infiltrated and abused like we saw with one of the Paris attackers. ISIS has said they want to infiltrate the Westerners (ph) programs. My bill temporarily suspends the program until we can get assurances from the FBI that we can do full background checks in vetting -- it's not my words. The FBI director told me and Homeland Security that they can't properly vet these individuals coming into the United States.

KELLY: And they're already overwhelmed -- they're already overwhelmed which goes back to my second question to you. I'm short on time, but is there a quick answer on where is the additional funding for the FBI? Where are the additional agents?

MCCAUL: Well, we do have, you know, a spending bill coming up in December and we have you looking at that to help them in these efforts.  But I can tell you, the Syrian refugee program, this bill will temporarily suspend it until we can get better.

KELLY: I know, I got it on the refugees. But you know what, I have to tell you. What I hear is, the FBI, they're not getting anything.  That's what it's about.

MCCAUL: Megyn, you're a former federal prosecutor like me. And I fully support it.

KELLY: Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you for being here tonight.

MCCAUL: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: At this moment, the Russians, the French, the Iranians and America are all conducting military operations in a small patch in the Middle East. And Lieutenant Colonel Tony Shaffer is here on what could be next.

Plus, President Obama in some hot water for taking Republicans to task when it comes to these Syrian refugees. Dana Perino has a story you have to hear.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, new reports of Syrians and potentially even ISIS terrorists looking for a back door into United States and Europe. We just got this video from Central America showing Honduran police arresting five Syrian citizens, at least they're believed to be. They were reportedly traveling with fake or stolen Greek passports, and were told they were planning to get into the United States by illegally crossing over our southern border. In Turkey, authorities detaining eight people, the men claimed to be tourists, but law enforcement say they believe these could be ISIS militants trying to get into Germany. In Jordan, King Abdullah created a story yesterday when he suggested we are now facing World War III and we must act together and fast. The Pope said the same earlier last week. His comments supported by the former deputy director of the CIA Michael Morrell who spoke to FOX News Brian Kilmeade earlier. Take a listen.


BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Did you believe that he -- is he overstating it?

MICHAEL MORRELL, FORMER CIA DEPUTY DIRECTOR: No, he's not, you know, I call it the great war of our time, right? He calls it the great third World War. I think in my mind, they're the same things. What they want is not just their caliphate in Iraq and Syria. They can't just be happy with that. They want a caliphate everywhere in the world.


KELLY: Joining me now, retired Army Reserved Lieutenant Colonel Shaffer who is a CIA trained Intel operative and senior fellow with the London Center for Policy Research. Good to see you, Colonel. So, you tell me, Russia just had an aircraft downed by this group, France has been attacked and lost over a hundred civilians. Beirut was attacked 24 hours before Paris was. Obviously, the United States has an interest in defeating this group. So, is there any way that we are building a coalition now, a stronger coalition? A more meaningful one than we've had against ISIS. And what does it look like?

LT. COL. TONY SHAFFER (RET), CIA TRAINED INTEL OPERATIVE: Well, that's the key. We must do that very thing. Unfortunately Megyn, one of the things that was notable in the last two world wars that started was a misperception of weakness and a fanaticism. We have this fanaticism and unfortunately for us, right now, we have essentially and I want to say this, I might going to be in trouble for it, Nevil Chamberlain in charge of the United States, someone who does not understand the gravity or scope of the threat now before us who essentially somehow believes that if we're just a little bit nicer to them, if we just try to understand them, the Paris attack is just a setback.

These things are -- words means something at the national level. So, what is happening Megyn is that the people who should be signing up to be part of that coalition in Arab NATO which we've talked about several times, are really not even sure that they would receive good leadership from us.  So, this is creating huge problems. And, for ISIS, the fact that the G-20 speech was so weak, this feeds into ISIS' ability to be in the Arab culture of the strong horse. The strong horse is --

KELLY: But let me ask you. So, in defense to the President, 78 percent of the air strikes against ISIS come from the United States.  Right? I mean, we are doing most of the air strikes and President Obama doesn't believe we should have too many U.S. boots on the ground and many people have said that. And I get it, Arab Force --

SHAFFER: I agree.

KELLY: Arab Force. Arab Force.

SHAFFER: I agree.

KELLY: But they're not going. So, you know, at this point, what is likely to happen? The Russians are going to take the lead? The French are going to take the lead? What do you see happening right now?

SHAFFER: The Russians are taking the lead. They have already moved out. They've been now bloodied by ISIS. You will see them double down, triple down and going after ISIS' targets. But let's remember here Megyn, Vladimir Putin is not doing this to be a nice guy. He's not doing this to help us. He's doing this for long term control of global oil. If he keeps going the direction he's going right now, within a couple of years with working with the Iranians, working to get controlled by Iraq, he will control 60 percent of the global fuel supply for the world. That means for allies. We'll be okay. Others will not.

So you have to understand here that as much as we need to understand the ISIS threat, there's secondary and third order affects that we have to be looking at right now to prevent Russia from obtaining essentially that edge that they were looking for during the cold war. So, this is what I'm saying, President Obama is not playing this as a chest game. He is actually playing this in such a weak -- he's playing huge weakness without any plan and all the components to really push together a great global congregations there. Nuclear technology in the hands of adversaries and all of these other things.

KELLY: Colonel, thank you.

SHAFFER: All right. Thank you, ma'am.

KELLY: Wait until you see what we discovered as the investigation into the Paris attack took our reporter to Belgium.

Up next, we'll take you to a place described as one of the worst breeding grounds for Jihadists in all of Europe.


DIDIER REYNDERS, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF BELGIUM: We have arrested a lot of French people in Brussels. And we are knowing that there are many people crossing all the time from one city to another one.  



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As much as we need to understand the ISIS threat, there's secondary and third order effects that we have to be looking at right now to prevent Russia, from obtaining essentially that edge that they were looking for during the Cold War.

So, this is what I'm saying. President Obama is not playing this isn't chess game. He is actually playing this is such a weak he's displaying huge weaknesses without -- without any plan, and all the components to really push together.

A great global congregation is there. Tech -- nuclear technology in the hands of adversaries and all of these other things.

KELLY: Colonel, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you, ma'am.

KELLY: Wait until you see what we discovered as the investigators into the Paris attack took our reporter to Belgium.

Up next, we'll take you to a place described as one of the worst breeding grounds for Jihadists in all of Europe.


DIDIER REYNDERS, DEPUTY FORMER MINISTER OF BELGIUM: We have arrested a lot of French people in Brussels and we are knowing that there are many people crossing all the time from one city to another one.



KELLY: Well, the search for the terrorist behind last week's attack in Paris has now led investigators across -- across the Belgium border into Brussels to the District of Molenbeek. Now this is an area some are calling the terror capital of Europe.

The alleged ring leader of the Paris attacks reportedly lived in this neighborhood. And Fox News foreign affairs correspondent, Benjamin Hall traveled there to get the story. Ben.

BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. These are the shocking words we have spoken today openly on the streets of Brussels as some residents thought to justify the attacks in Paris over the weekend.

Also laying bear the radicalization problem at the heart of Europe. Today, I spoke to young Muslim man in the now, infamous District of Molenbeek, from where both the mastermind and some of the attackers came from.

It was shocking to hear him to condone the massacre and speak openly about what they expected was fair retaliation for bombings in Syria and Iraq. One of the attacker, Salah Abdeslam is now on the run here, thought to be nearby, armed and dangerous.

Police continue to search for him here in the Belgium capital, following dramatic raids yesterday as police out sailed into buildings. Meanwhile, today, the mayor of this embattled district spoke saying that they had been long aware of the problems here but that they were unable to keep watch because they simply didn't have enough police.

And now they need help from the government. Perhaps too little, too late. Belgium has the highest percentage per capita of Jihadist on Europe who have gone to Syria and Iraq up to 500.

Most worryingly, a 130 have come back. The district is also where weapons for many of these attacks have been sought, not just Kalashnikovs and grenades but explosives and even rocket launchers are available here.

The Paris mastermind, Abdelhamid Abaaoud comes from here and planned four deadly attacks this year. It must be said that the majority of the people here condemn the attacks. But they are certainly a dark undercurrent radicalization in this country and too much of Europe. And that the authorities seem powerless to stop it. Megyn.

KELLY: Benjamin Hall, thank you. For more on this, we turn to Josh Katz, a former CIA operations officer and a former counterterrorism advisor to the House Committee on Homeland Security.

Josh, thank you very much for being here. So, you heard that a dark undercurrent of radicalization throughout Europe which doesn't come as a huge surprise, but, boy, we've seen in operation in the past week.

JOSHUA KATZ, FORMER CIA OPERATIOSN OFFICER: Yes, absolutely, Megyn. Thank you for having me. This is -- I actually think a lot of people, a lot of your viewers are going to be absolutely shocked to learn that just five miles from NATO headquarters is this area where a radicalization is happening.

It's been happening now for almost a generation. There are weapons that are available, a high-caliber weapons. So, this is an area that where we're seeing a like networks central for radicalization and for Jihadi operations throughout Europe.

KELLY: How, I mean, they just -- Belgium just allows this to go on?

KATZ: Well, you know, it's a combination of a lot of things. Mostly by very, very poor government oversight. lack of -- lack of police, lack of intelligence. There are a lot of laws here. And actually, really interestingly, up until 2006, Brussels was in Belgium as a whole, really had a very lax of gun control laws. And so, there is a basically a perfect storm here of a lot of different factors that have made this just a-- just a hot bed for -- for radicalization.

KELLY: OK. So, what people are very worried about is, you know, we're pretty open doors when it comes to our friends over in Europe, coming in to the United States.

KATZ: Absolutely.

KELLY: And the other question is, we've been hearing all night about the number, the growing number. Every night, we hear a different and larger number of ISIS-related individuals believed to be in the United States. Open cases they have. So the question is whether that kind of radicalization activity centralized and festering is happening here and how easily the folks from Brussels can come on into the United States?

KATZ: Megyn, it's very, very easy. Actually, there is no -- no visa requirement so they can -- they can take their E.U. passport, get on a plane and come to America. We've actually seen known terrorists do that and take that route.

Si, that, it absolutely happened. And the radicalization is absolutely going on inside the United States. And what I would say to your viewers is that the numbers are absolutely not known. I believe that the numbers are much higher that anybody is really talking. But the bottom line here is nobody knows.

KELLY: How -- why -- you know, why hasn't it happened here then, you know, this ISIS -- it -- this kind of attack on the soft target where they just unleash hell on civilians. And of course, I'm aware of 9/11, but I'm talking about ISIS and here.

KATZ: Right. Right. Absolutely. And, you know, we should not -- we shouldn't be under any false pretense that it's not coming. It is coming. They are -- they are trying. They are trying in a lot of different ways. We have been very fortunate to this point. I think actually, we've been lucky. But it's coming.

And now, we, as this -- as the population, we're on the front lines here, Megyn. There's no -- no other way to say, we're on the front line.

KELLY: Wow. Josh, thank you.

KATZ: Thank you.

KELLY: Well, breaking tonight, President Obama is under fire for suggesting that when it comes to the Syrian refugee debate, republican rhetoric could be construed as an ISIS recruiting tool.

Dana Perino has some thoughts on that. And General Jack Keane, today, explains to Congress why ISIS is the most successful terror group in history. And tonight, he is here to explain what that means for us?


JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS MILITARY ANALYST: Clearly, ISIS is not contained and is far from defeated. United States and our allied partners need to wake up. ISIS is at war with us and civilization.



KELLY: Well, the House Homeland Security Committee today held a hearing on combating radical Islam. One of the star witnesses, Fox News military analyst and the chairman of the Institute for the study of War, four-star general, Jack Keane. Listen.


KEANE: What ISIS has accomplished in the last few weeks is unprecedented and quite stunning. While conducting a conventional war in Iraq and Syria, ISIS has staged terrorist attacks on a global scale against the people from the countries who are fighting ISIS.

The result is almost 900 casualties in 12 days. Can you imagine the impact that the Nazis were conducting terrorist activities in major American cities while the United States was fighting the Nazis in Europe?


KELLY: General Keane joins us now. General, good to see you. Let me ask you this. You said today, this -- this is a multi-generational struggle against radical Islam which will likely dominate the first half of the 21st century. Is this -- does this all spring from the, quote "JV Team?"

KEANE: Well, first of all, the multigenerational struggle implies the entire radical Islamic movement. ISIS, clearly, in your statement, I think has always been understated by the President of the United States right from the beginning minimizing the challenge, et cetera.

ISIS is something we should not spend a lot of time on. Because the longer they exist, the more they're going to kill and eventually they're going to come to America. This is a force that's holding to reign and it's from that terrain in Iraq and Syria that they're conducting all these attacks that we just talked about in that testimony and you highlighted.

We have got to take that territory away from them and we've got to kill them in that territory. That is something we should do as immediately as possible because the killing will continue, the barbarism will continue.

That means resolve, commitment, to have determination to succeed and a full measure of the resources, finally, once and for all, that are required.

KELLY: I know you mentioned today, up to 10,000 U.S. troops. But the argument from the other side is that's what they want. Bin Laden wanted to tempt us into going to fight him in a foreign land so that we could spell American blood over there. And

Al Qaeda grew, X number of fool. They had a couple hundred fighters they said, prior to 9/11. They round up having thousands. That's the argument on the other side. That this is a lure, this is a trap.

KEANE: There is certainly is an issue with putting large amount of combat troops from America, from France, from England back into Arab countries. I understand that, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about 10,000 troops to assist the local forces who are already there. But give them -- give them all the resources that they need. Not 300. And, also, this is combat. Remission our special operation forces so they can conduct large-scale raids. Not just hostage rescue. Take down critical notes. Put to safe zones in Syria that so many people have talked about along the Jordanian in Turkish soil.


KELLY: I know. And you've said -- you've said our guys are operating under these rules of engagement, which have never been utilized if there is -- if there may be a civilian in the area, they can't do it. And this is not how warfare is being conducted.

But I want to get to this point before -- before we run out of time. Because you talked today about how the U.S. has no comprehensive strategy to defeat radical Islam. And the president won't even call it that, neither will the democrats. Not Hillary, not Bernie Sanders.

So many have argued that that would play into their narrative. Why do you disagree?

KEANE: That's absolutely rubbish that that would play into the narrative with the -- what they're saying. This radical Islam is a religious-based ideology. And you actually have to, when you deal with the ideology, you have to attack it on that basis.

We need clerics and national leaders who are Muslims to do that very thing. And I say, listen, I've been frustrated since 9/11. A republican president and a democratic president. The fact to the matter is, we never developed a comprehensive strategy to deal with radical Islam. And the 9/11 commission said, one of the things we must do is develop a global alliance to combat it.

If we start getting after that, then we don't have to fight each one of these movements every time they pop up. We're already getting rid of...


KELLY: Is one growing now? Is one growing with France, you know, outrage with Russia presumably ready to do even more than it's been doing, which has its own risks.

KEANE: Listen, Russia's -- Russia's got 34 airplanes, 16 helicopters and some artillery. They're not going to be able to do that much. Putin puts a little on the table and gets a lot out of it. We should not do anything with Putin.

Putin has propped up the Assad regime, 250,000 dead, 11 million displaced people. That's a moral outrage, what he's been doing. And I believe he's got a trap for Kerry, and I think he'll walk right into the trap and wind up making a deal with Putin, just like he did with Putin and Iran on the nuclear weapons deal, as well.

KELLY: General Jack Keane, I will say for the record, we didn't get to it, but General Keane is behind is supportive of allowing the Syrian refugees to come into this country and believes we can adequately screen them. We'll discuss that another night. General, great to see you.

KEANE: Good talking to you, Megyn.

KELLY: Breaking tonight, President Obama under fire for suggesting that when it comings to those refugees from Syria, republican rhetoric could be misconstrued as an ISIS recruiting tool. Dana Perino is next on that.


KELLY: Well, in the capital, the debate continues to focus on the President's push to bring more refugees from Syria to the United States. And after the President ran into opposition on this, he opened fire on the GOP.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: When candidates say we wouldn't admit 3-year-old orphans, that's political posturing. When individuals say that we should have a religious test and that only Christians, proven Christians should be admitted, that's offensive and contrary to American values. I cannot think of a more -- more potent recruitment tool for ISIL.


KELLY: Dana Perino is a co-host of "The Five" right here on Fox. She served as White House Press Secretary under President George W. Bush. And you took real issue with those comments. Why?

DANA PERINO, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: Well, it's a series of things. You know, first of all, I think that one of the things that he said about republicans being afraid of widows and orphans, and if they were afraid of 3-year-olds, I said, well, you know, that is a really dangerous game to play, you know, if he's retching that up rhetoric.

Because the first thing that I could say in response if I want to hit him back is to say, why weren't you there to care for them when they were newborns, three years ago, when you decided to do nothing, when Assad was gassing his own people.

Now they're to a point where they're in refugee status. And it is not their fault. And I agree that there are ways that are ways that we could help to try to bring refugees here legally. I think we should be more worried about the illegal people.

If you were a student and loved great presidential moments of rhetoric and leadership, yesterday was not one of those.

KELLY: You know, we covered the Syrian crisis before it turned into a true civil war. Assad was just murdering his own people.


KELLY: And good people were trying to fight back. This little girl became the face of that crisis for us because the United States wasn't getting involved. Look at this little girl amid the wreckage of her home, her family. We never found out what happened to her.

But there were thousands of others just like her and the United States didn't get involved. We didn't care that much about the children back then. Now it's morphed into something more unimaginably bad than anybody could have considered.

PERINO: One of the things Americans want to be is proud of their country. And I think at this moment they're not. What is sad to me also is that the president actually could have support to change his strategy. But his strategy has been so bad, the results are demonstrably terrible, that the one thing he does really well is try to push back against republicans and make them the bad guy.

KELLY: But is he right on the Christian-Muslim test?

PERINO: Well, I think there's a couple of things on that. I think that he's one taken it out of context for a reason. I do think that Christians are persecuted more severely by ISIS, that is just a fact.

And you can look at refugee status. There's a whole process to go through. And immigration lawyers do a lot of good work. It's a very complicated. You probably know a lot about that than I do.

There is a national security test. You also ask about religion. And you invite people in because America is a wonderful place. We agree. But we want to keep it that way. And it's not unreasonable to ask for a pause.

KELLY: It's tough to reduce it down to pity sound bite. Dana, great to see you. We'll be right back.


KELLY: These are some difficult times, and we appreciate you trusting us for your news on nights like this. Go to We see your thought. Thanks for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly.

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