Rep. Peter King on US response to Paris attacks
Insight from the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Terrorism
This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," November 15, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Chris Wallace. Terror in Paris. ISIS claims responsibility, and France vows to strike back. All the breaking developments on this special edition of "Fox News Sunday."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): It is an act of war, undertaken by a terrorist army. It was an act of war that was prepared, organized and planned from abroad.
WALLACE: We'll get the latest on the investigation and live reports from across the globe. And talk with Congressman Peter King about who's responsible and what it means for protecting the homeland.
Then, world powers unite. We'll ask retired four-star General Jack Keane how the U.S. and our allies need to respond to this dramatic escalation by the terrorists.
Plus, Dr. Ben Carson reacts to the massacre, vowing to eliminate ISIS.
DR. BEN CARSON, R- PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The global jihadist movement is an existential threat.
WALLACE: Ben Carson on what he would do if he was the commander in chief right now. It's a "Fox News Sunday" exclusive.
And our panel analyzes the attack and how it may change the race for president.
All right now on "Fox News Sunday."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: And hello again from Fox News in Washington.
Here is the latest on the terror attacks in Paris that killed at least 129, including one American.
French President Hollande says ISIS is responsible for the massacre. The French say they have identified one suicide bomber, while authorities in Belgium have now detained seven potential accomplices. The attacks are now the focus of the G-20 Summit of world leaders in Turkey, including President Obama.
We'll talk with the president's deputy national security Ben Rhodes, who is at the summit in a moment.
But, first, senior foreign affairs correspondent Greg Palkot is live in Paris with the latest on the investigation -- Greg.
GREG PALKOT, FOX NEWS SENIOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, we are standing in front of the Bataclan music hall where 89 young concert-goers were slaughtered Friday night as the attackers shouted out "Allahu Akbar" or "God is great", as French come to grips with this horrific terror.
That ID'd suicide bomber was found here, or his finger was. His body was blown apart by a bomb. The print from that finger showed that he was a French national, a classic homegrown terrorist.
The national stadium a few miles from here where three suicide bombers terrorized 65,000 spectators., a Syrian passport has been found. Greek officials now confirmed it was used by a migrant who could have been smuggling in terror.
And nearby, another car was found full of Kalashnikov automatic rifles used to shoot and kill cafe-goers.
All told, seven attackers were killed or are dead in a coordinated operation which officials say was military style and professional. One hundred nine of the 129 victims have been identified. Three hundred ninety-two people were injured, 99 seriously, several we are told of those hurt are American.
The one identified American killed, Nohemi Gonzalez, was a 23-year-old California college student. She was here on her semester abroad.
Throughout Paris today, thousands of soldiers and police are out in force amid continued closures of everything from the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre Museum, to parks, even Sunday markets. A city, a country on lockdown.
Yes, French President Francois Hollande has said that ISIS is responsible and he does call this an act of war. He is meeting before an extraordinary session of his parliament tomorrow. The French and the world waits to see what happens next.
Back to you, Chris.
WALLACE: Greg Palkot reporting live from Paris -- Greg, thanks for that.
As we said, President Obama is at a summit of world leaders in Turkey where terror and the response to the attack on Paris now tops the agenda.
Joining us from the summit, the president's deputy national security adviser, Ben Rhodes.
President Obama, Mr. Rhodes, of course is meeting with world leaders at the G-20 Summit. In the wake of French President Hollande saying this was an act of war and that his response will be, quote, "merciless", is President Obama prepared to dramatically escalate his effort against ISIS?
BEN RHODES, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, first of all, Chris, we are heartbroken by the tragedy, and we absolutely agree that this was an act of war by ISIL. We've been engaged in a war against ISIL through our airstrikes, our support for forces fighting him on the ground, and we are prepared to work with French to make sure we can do more to our military cooperation to facilitate effective strikes against ISIL, to deny them safe haven in Syria, and to deliver justice for these attacks.
WALLACE: Now, the French are at least considering of idea of invoking Article V of NATO, which says that an attack against one is an attack against all. If they do that, would we go along with France that this is an Article 5 violation? And specifically, are we talking about more of the same? Are we talking about, for instance, putting boots on the ground, combat troops on the ground to take on ISIS in Syria?
RHODES: Well, Chris, that's a French determination. It's up to the nation to decide whether or not to invoke Article V. I think we would stand shoulder to shoulder with France in whatever decision they make. In any case, we're going to be cooperating with them militarily going forward.
I think you are going to see is continued intensification of the air campaigns, the type of leadership strikes that we've taken in recent days as against Jihadi John in Syria, more direct equipping and arming of opposition forces that are fighting on the ground in both Syria and Iraq. We do not believe that there is a solution to the challenge in Syria or Iraq that involves significant numbers of U.S. combat troops going in. What there needs to be is a mix of relentless counter-terrorism pressure and the type of political resolution to the Syrian war that was being pursued in Vienna yesterday with all the key nations involved.
WALLACE: One of attackers in the French slaughter was carrying a Syrian passport that seemed to indicate he had been a refugee that had come into Europe, along with the flood of migrants in October. Given that, is President Obama reconsidering the plan to accept 10,000 refugees over the next year?
RHODES: No, Chris, we're still planning to take in Syrian refugees. We have very robust vetting procedures for those refugees. It involves our intelligence community, our National Counterterrorism Center, extensive interviews, vetting them against all information.
And what we need to be able to do frankly is sort out that foreign fighter flow, those who have gone into Syria and come out and want to launch attacks or those people who have connections with ISIL in Syria. We need to be able to have the intelligence base to identify and target those people. At the same time, we have to recognize there's tragic victims of this conflict, there are women, and children, orphans of this war and I think we need to do our part, along with our allies, to provide them a safe haven.
WALLACE: On Thursday, President Obama was asked how we are doing in the war against ISIS, and here is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our goal has been first
to contain, and we have contained them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: We have contained ISIS, and then just a day later, ISIS launches the deadliest attack on Paris since World War II.
Mr. Rhodes, hasn't the president having all of you around him, haven't you profoundly misjudged the strength, the capabilities and the ambitions of ISIS?
RHODES: No. Look, Chris, at the very beginning of the counter-ISIL campaign, the president made very clear that this is going to be a long-term challenge. That this is going to involve a group that poses a threat to our homeland, to our allies.
What the president was referring to very specifically is we had to stop their geographic advance in Iraq and Syria, where they are gaining more territory. We have done that. In some respects, we have rolled them back in different places, of Northern Iraq, and northern and eastern Syria.
That's necessary to shrink the space that they operate in, but that does not eliminate the threat, as we all so tragically in Paris. But that's why we have to be relentless in degrading their leadership as we -- yes?
WALLACE: I was just going to say, Mr. Rhodes, haven't you -- you're fighting the last war against ISIS. They have changed their tactics. They have apparently brought down an Egyptian -- rather a Russian airliner over Egypt. They had a suicide bomb that killed dozens in Beirut. They now have slaughtered 130 and wounded hundreds more in Paris.
This kind of geographical containment isn't where ISIS is anymore.
RHODES: Well, first of all, they still very much depend on their safe havens in Iraq and Syria. Those must be denied to ISIL. We see them as having a global reach, trying to set up operations in different places. That's why we took a strike at the leader of ISIL in Libya just a few days ago.
At the same time, the types of threats that you reference that led to such tragic acts of terror, those have to be dealt with through a variety of means, to include military pressure, to include effective intelligence and counter-terrorism work with our allies and partners, that will need the cooperation of the whole world. That will clearly be a focus here in Turkey -- how are we sharing information, how are we sealing that border with Turkey, and how are we dealing with terrorist networks that have ambitions to launch these type of external attacks.
WALLACE: Mr. Rhodes, thank you. Thanks for taking the time from the summit to talk with us today, sir.
RHODES: Thank you, Chris.
WALLACE: So what does this brutal attack in Paris tell us about the growing terror threat and how the U.S. needs to respond?
To discuss that, let's brings in Congressman Peter King, chair of the House Subcommittee on Terrorism.
Chairman King, what's the latest intel that you have received? Was it in fact ISIS? Were these homegrown terrorists? Or had they been trained and directed from Syria?
REP. PETER KING, R-NY, SELECT INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Chris, the picture is still not entirely clear. Having said that, though, it is clear it was ISIS. Whether or not it was out of a central command, or whether or not it was entirely homegrown, I think it was a combination of both.
I think French President Hollande is right on that. And also France has a special problem, because they've had up to 2,000 of their citizens have gone to Syria to fight alongside ISIS, and now they're working their way back into France.
Let me just say, Chris, I was listening to Ben Rhodes, what he said about the robust vetting about refugees is untrue. There's virtually vetting. There are no databases in Syria. There are no government records. We don't know who these people are. And when you meet with the people doing the vetting, they tell us that.
So, this is really -- they are rolling a dice here. We know that ISIS wants to bring in terrorists with these refugees. So, this --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Let me ask this directly. Are you saying that the president -- are you saying the president should suspend the idea of bringing in 10,000 refugees from Syria?
KING: He absolutely should suspend it unless they can show 100 percent that a person is not involved with ISIS, because right now, there's no responsible way to do the vetting. That's the reality.
And why people like Ben Rhodes continue to say this is beyond me. To me, it's as misguided as the president saying he's contained ISIS.
This is a failure of leadership. And until we get leadership, we're not going to get Arab states standing behind us and we're not going to have confidence from other allies around the world, and the president from the day he started this -- his war against ISIS, 14, 15 months ago, it's been apologetic. He keeps telling us what he's not going to do. We should never tell ISIS what we're not going to do.
WALLACE: Let me ask you if I may sir about the security of the U.S. homeland, the terrorists in France were able to evade French intelligence. This was a surprise attack. Even now in the wake of the attack on the "Charlie Hebdo" magazine back in January, the French granted their intelligence much more sweeping powers than we have in this country.
Question -- if they were able to pull this off in France who the government surveillance that is going on there, how safe is the U.S. homeland?
KING: Well, we have to realize we are the main target. Certainly living here in New York, this is definitely the main target, but the U.S. is the main target.
Now, we have been able to coordinate CIA, FBI, homeland security, NYPD here in New York, and France has a somewhat different problem that they have larger number of radicals and terrorists in their country than we would have in ours. Having said that, this shows the absolute need to have top surveillance, to stop criticizing the NSA, for people like "The New York Times", Civil Liberties Union, to stop trying to tie the hands of the NYPD.
We have to put political correctness aside, Chris. We have to have surveillance in the Muslim communities. That's where the threat is coming from.
I don't think today the French police or French intelligence is monitoring the Catholic community or the Jewish community. The threat is coming from the Muslim community. And that's what we have to be doing in the U.S.
Over the Fourth of July, for instance, we were faced with attacks that could have been the worst since 9/11, over the Fourth of July. Fortunately, the NYPD, the Joint Terrorism Task Force and the FBI were able to carry out arrests here in New York to stop the Fourth of July massacre which could have rivaled what happened in Paris. We can't let our guard down, we can't listen to people who say we have to shut down the NSA or tie the hands of the FBI, tie the hands of the police.
WALLACE: Right.
KING: This is not profiling. This is common-sense policing we have to do.
WALLACE: Congressman, I want to ask you about another part of my exchange is Ben Rhodes. He and the president are talking in a territorial sense containing ISIS, rolling back some of the area they hold in Iraq and Syria. But as I mentioned to him, that was the old ISIS, and we've seen at least a new capability of ISIS now when they're taking down a Russian airliner, when they're launching this kind of mass attack in Paris.
KING: Right.
WALLACE: And I guess the question is, is President Obama, is his administration, are they focused on the new ISIS?
KING: No, they're still fighting the last war, even fighting that halfheartedly.
For instance, here in the U.S., the FBI Director Comey says there's active investigations in all 50 states. I'm on the Intelligence Committee and the Homeland Security Committee. The one thing we are always told is, that the threats are greater than at any time since September 11th.
So, ISIS is not being contained. They're spreading worldwide. We saw it with the Russian jetliner. You see it now in Paris. You've seen it in Beirut. You see it here in the U.S. where we've had so many arrests over the last six, seven, eight, nine months of ISIS operatives here in the United States.
So, no, they are -- the president to me is very apologetic. It's one foot in, one foot out, one step forward, one step backward. It also seems like he just wants to run out the final 15 months of his term without any catastrophe happening, but not that energy.
Listen, we are in a sad state when we are looking to the president of France to provide international leadership that's needed against ISIS.
WALLACE: Congressman King, I want to thank you so much. Thanks for coming in today, sir.
KING: Chris, thank you.
WALLACE: Up next, we'll talk with an eyewitness about her escape from that Paris concert hall where dozens were gunned.
Plus, get an inside report on how the terrorists pulled off this plot.
And we'll hear from Retired Four-Star General Jack Keane, when our special edition of "Terror in Paris" continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: The scene outside the Bataclan music hall in Paris where dozens of people were slaughtered in Friday night's attack.
Ginnie Watson was at that concert at the Bataclan when the shots rang out. And Jenny joins us now from France.
Ginnie, once you realized that this wasn't part of the show, what did you see and hear?
GINNIE WATSON, BATACLAN EYEWITNESS: I heard gunshots. I was on the balcony, so I couldn't see the attackers, but I hear gunshots, and they did not stop. It was nonstop. Just bang, bang, bang --
WALLACE: And how close were you to people who were hit? What did you see?
WATSON: Well, first of all, I got out fairly quickly, which is probably what saved me, which is making my heart beat, because I luckily did not see people down. I only saw people when I managed to get out.
But in the actual Bataclan, I escaped through the safety exit, because I was near to a safety exit. And people -- but people were starting to get shots up on the balcony the moment I managed to get into the staircase leading down to the safety exit. It was really close.
WALLACE: You know, we all imagine what it would be like to be in one of these situations. How horrific, as you're going through it?
WATSON: It's -- it's very surreal. It's like it's not happening in a way. For my, anyway, this is how I felt, I just had to get out. It's like I have to get out of here.
I had my two friends with me. We stayed close by, we ducked when he heard the actual gunshots. We ducked and hid and then we went towards the safety exit with a lot of other people.
And my main thought was just to get out -- get out, get out, get out. I don't think I realized that this was -- you didn't know then what it was. You know, it was gunshots and you had to get out. It was only afterwards when we realized it was a real terrorist attack.
The horror of it came gradually, you know, as we managed to get away. We heard all these, you know people say there's attacks here and over there and in the restaurants and in the cafe, and I'm angry. I'm upset. I'm shaking.
My heart's beating and I can't get warm, I'm cold, I'm shivering. I don't think I'm realizing what actually happened, and it's still sinking in. All I know is I got out, but like in the nick of time.
So, you know, the universe was on my side. I don't know what to say. It's horrible. It's exactly horrible.
WALLACE: Ginnie, we are so glad -- so glad you are safe and sound, and we want to thank you for sharing your story.
WATSON: Thank you so much for listening.
WALLACE: Let's bring in FOX News chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge with what we know about the size and scope of the plot -- Catherine.
CATHERINE HERRIDGE, FOX NEWS CHIEF INTELLIGENCE CORRESPONDENT: Chris, this morning, analysts are reviewing the ISIS claims of responsibility. The focus on the English language version which is delivered in American-accented English, it's now clear the plot included the rollout of ISIS propaganda that was prepared in advance, including threats towards the Russian people, Rome, London and Washington, D.C.
Separately, FOX News has learned that four credible ISIS-linked social media accounts began sharing messages 72 hours before the Paris attacks, including images of weapons, the ISIS tower, as well as blessings for their mission. A military intelligence source says the social media traffic is now seen as evidence that the three teams had gone operational.
Meanwhile, FBI director James Comey have told field offices across the country to intensify surveillance on ISIS suspects, hoping to prevent follow on violence in this country.
Before the attack, Comey confirmed there are 900 active ISIS investigations spread over all 50 states. There is a growing body of evidence the attack was premeditated and the terrorists vetted by ISIS in Syria, an anti-ISIS group is reporting this morning that two fighters were sent in March, and two more in May for an operation in French. In August, a French national who was arrested returning from Syria mentioned instructions to attack a concert hall, Chris.
WALLACE: Catherine, thanks for that.
HERRIDGE: You're welcome.
WALLACE: So, what does all this mean for our continuing war on terror? Retired Four-Star General Jack Keane, the former Army vice chief of staff joins us now.
And, General, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."
GENERAL JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS MILITARY ANALYST: Always good to be here, Chris.
WALLACE: As a veteran military strategist, what strikes you about the scope and the sophistication of this attack?
KEANE: Well, first of all, clearly, it's well-planned. They selected two primary targets that was scheduled, concert, soccer game. Secondary targets were, you know, the restaurants and the bars. It was well-coordinated, near simultaneous attacks and largely successful. I mean, the failure was clearly at the stadium. They wanted to get inside that stadium and detonate three bombers that had suicide vests.
WALLACE: The French president was at that stadium for a soccer game.
KEANE: At that stadium.
So, the casualties would have been considerably higher. But they accomplished what they wanted. They truly inflicted terror on the French population, the purpose of which is to undermine the people's support for their government who is fighting ISIS. And second, I believe is also to polarize and fragment the Muslim and non-Muslim population in France. What that impact is on this will take some time to find out.
WALLACE: All right. We've -- there seems to have a change in ISIS. They seemed first to be a regional power, interested in spreading their caliphate in the Middle East and then in North Africa. We have now had the bombing of that Russian airliners that was brought down over the Sinai and Egypt, a suicide bombing in Lebanon, and now this brutal attack in Paris.
What does that tell you about changes in ISIS' goals and capabilities.
KEANE: Well, these goals have always been there. But now, they're able to execute them. And fact is, ISIS is the most successful terrorist organization, Chris, that we have in modern history. Here they are --
WALLACE: Wait, wait, more than al Qaeda?
KEANE: Oh, yes, they have exceeded al Qaeda by a factor of X some time ago.
They're conducting a conventional war in Iraq and Syria, where they hold large swaths of territory. At the same time, in the last two weeks alone, they've killed and wounded over 900 people from the countries who were supporting the effort against them. Russian people, Lebanese people and now, obviously, French people. That is unprecedented and it's a stunning achievement.
Just think if the Nazis were attacking us in the major cities prior to World War II or the execution of the war. That's what this -- that's what this organization has achieved.
WALLACE: All right. We ran the clip in the last segment of President Obama talking about containing ISIS, and one of the things that people like Ben Rhodes point to is the fact we have recaptured the city of Sinjar, helping the Kurdish, the Iraqi Kurds. We took out apparently Jihadi John.
Are those significant in the context of where ISIS is now in these kinds of big international attacks?
KEANE: Strategically, tactically, yes, they are successes. Strategically, they are not, because the Kurds have been able to take back some of the territory that they own in Syria and in Iraq, and that's what Sinjar represented, where the Yazidis live, and killing leaders certainly is important.
But if you look at ISIS and read what they think, they believe they are largely successful. They're still holding the territory that they -- after they took Mosul some 17 months ago, about the same amount of territory, they have expanded, Chris, into eight other countries where they have affiliates. And we just noted what they were able to do globally.
So, in their minds, they are a succeeding organization. The longer we permit them to succeed like this in terms of time, they develop a degree of invincibility, and a sense of destiny and aura of success about them.
WALLACE: OK. So, we -- I asked Ben Rhodes whether this is going to mean a dramatic escalation in our effort against ISIS, and he basically said no -- there's not going to be a big ground effort, we're going to continue more of the same, maybe more of it, but more of the same.
If President Obama, as other presidents have, called you into the Oval Office today and said, Jack, I've changed my mind, I want to destroy ISIS, I want a military option, what do I do? What would you tell them?
KEANE: Well, first of all, the problem we have in Iraq and Syria is that the land itself that they occupy are Sunni lands. If you want to use indigenous forces to take that back, you need Sunnis.
And we're not going to get Sunni forces in Iraq until we get political unity with the Abadi government and the Sunnis. That doesn't happen. We need somebody on the ground. It's tragic we spent so much time on a nuclear deal and not on this.
WALLACE: And what about U.S. forces?
KEANE: U.S. forces can be increased rather dramatically. I think we should almost triple the efforts of the training advisers, people at the tactical level, special operations, raids, not just going after leaders and hostage rescue, but conducting sizable raids with considerably larger forces, Apache helicopters, et cetera, doing the same in Syria.
We're handicap in Syria, because most of the Sunnis are fighting the Assad regime. There's so much more we can do.
If now we have the French, if they want to get involved in this, obviously that makes some sense. We also have to recognize that Putin has guaranteed the preservation of at least the Alawite regime, may be not Assad, and the continuance of the civil war, which is a huge handicap for us in prosecuting the war against.
WALLACE: General Keane, always complicated, no easy answers. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, sir.
KEANE: You're welcome.
Up next, Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson on what he would do right now to combat threat if he were the commander in chief.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: Coming up on "Fox News Sunday," the race for the White House turn on the war on terror in response to the attack in Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to recognize that the global jihadist movement is an existential threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Dr. Ben Carson tells how he would fight ISIS, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: A look at the Freedom Tower at Ground Zero in New York City lit up in the national colors of France. The attacks in Paris means the focus in the race for a president will now shift decidedly to the war on terror and how to keep Americans safe. Joining us now is one of the Republican frontrunners, Dr. Ben Carson. And Dr. Carson, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."
CARSON: Thank you. Nice to be here.
WALLACE: If you were president right now, what would you be doing specifically in response to the attack on Paris?
CARSON: Well, obviously extending, you know, our support to the French. You know, that were our first allies, and we certainly want to stand with them and make sure that they understand that. And that we sympathize with them. But, you know, recognize that the president has a large array of resources available to him besides just the Pentagon. We need to use our intelligence to a much greater extents, our intelligence agencies. I think looking at the ideological war that's being waged by the jihadists, it has been very effective. And we need to wage a counter-war against them utilizing social media, and all the same mechanisms that they use.
And also, the clerics, we need to be putting pressure on them to disavow what ISIS is doing. You know, they can't sit on the sideline here. And I think also, you know, looking at what was accomplished recently, with the taking of a city, you know, that's a long-range thing and it worked very well with the Kurds, shutting off supplies, creating the right atmosphere, providing the type of air support. You know, we can start doing that with other places, too. You look at places like Mosul, you know, we can start now cutting off supplies and controlling --
WALLACE: But let me, if I may - if I may, let me just focus on the military component. Because obviously, after the slaughter of over 100 people, while all of those are important components, the military component is the most immediate one. And you have said that you would, as president try to create an international coalition militarily to go after ISIS. How would you put that together? Who would you call first?
CARSON: Well, what I was just explaining is, you know, how we use the resources that we have. You know, that includes some of our special ops people working in conjunction with an effective fighting force there. Those are the kinds of things that will create enthusiasm, as we begin to take back the land, take back the areas and damage their image throughout the world.
WALLACE: But who would you call first, specifically, to put together an international military coalition?
CARSON: My point being that if we get out there and we really lead and it appears that we're making progress, then all of the Arab states and even the non-Arab states who I think are beginning to recognize that the jihad movement is global. It is not just local in the Middle East, but if we fight it there, they will have to pool their resources in that area, and then we won't have to necessarily fight them here. That's what I'm saying.
WALLACE: But can you tell us who you would call first, sir? On the international scene.
CARSON: I would call for all of the Arab states to be involved in this. I would call for all of our traditional allies to be involved in this. You know, I don't want to leave anybody out. Because really, this is - when you're talking about a global jihad movement, you're talking about a movement whose eventual goal is to dominate the entire world.
WALLACE: Let me ...
CARSON: And I think a lot of people ...
WALLACE: Well, now I'm sorry, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: But I just want to ask you - You talk about -- and you've been very frank about putting U.S. boots on the ground, would President Carson commit thousands of U.S. troops to going back into Iraq and going into Syria for the first time for a ground war against ISIS?
CARSON: Obviously, we have boots on the ground there already. You know, that's an emotionally laden term. How many people do we need to be there? It's really what are they doing? How effective are they? That's - that I think is much more important than the number of people who are there, and utilizing our special ops, which are absolutely terrific in conjunction with the Kurds in northern Iraq, you can see how effective that is. And as others are able to join us, the Iraqi forces, you know, played an important role in that, too. And they are getting up to speed. We have to continue to work with them, and we will supply what is necessary in order to accomplish the goal. But I don't want to put a specific number on it or indicate what types of people there are. Because those are decisions that I think are made by people who have a tremendous amount of military experience and capability. And, you know, for me to pretend like I have all of that knowledge and the ability to formulate all the specific plans and how to do it, I think is foolish, and I think anybody else who thinks they know it all is foolish also.
WALLACE: The Obama administration has said before that it would accept up to 10,000 Syrian refugees as part of the humanitarian crisis. We now learn that one of these attackers had a Syrian passport that indicated he had been part of the refugee flood into Europe in October. Would you continue that policy?
CARSON: Well, you know, as I've said all along, you know, bringing people into this country from that area of the world I think is a huge mistake. Because why wouldn't they infiltrate them with people who are ideologically opposed to us? It would be foolish for them not to do that. So, we need to be very compassionate to understand that these people have been displaced and we should use our expertise and resources to help get them resettle over there, and to support them over there, but to bring them here under these circumstances is a suspension of intellect.
You know, the reason that the human brain has these big frontal lobes as opposed to other animals, because we can engage in rational thought processing, we can, you know, extract information from the past, the present, process it and project it into a plan. Animals, on the other hand, have big brain stems and rudimentary things, because they react. We don't have to just react, we can think.
WALLACE: Sir, we're running out of time and I'm going to do kind of a lightning round with you, to try to get some quick answers. It seems to me that this is a turning point, if you will, in the presidential campaign. Because we're now talking not just about electing a president, but electing a commander in chief, somebody that keeps the country safe. You surprised a lot of people in the last debate when you said this about Syria.
CARSON: We also must recognize that it's a very complex place. You know, the Chinese are there as well as the Russians and you have all kinds of factions there.
WALLACE: Briefly, sir, what evidence do you have that the Chinese are fighting in Syria?
CARSON: I didn't say that they were fighting there. I said they're involved. They're involved by supplying weapons, which we have asked them not to do, but they continue to do anyway. Some are very sophisticated and obviously are going to require support in order to operate.
WALLACE: You also said that the U.S., and you have said for some time, should establish a no-fly zone over parts of Syria, where the anti-Assad rebels are, and you've said that if the Russians were to violate that we should be prepared to shoot them down. Here you are on that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARSON: If they do come into that area after you have given them adequate warning, after we've talked to Putin, you shoot them down, absolutely.
(END video CLIP)
WALLACE: Dr. Carson what happens if the Russians respond to that by shooting down one of our planes?
CARSON: I would do that in conjunction with the Turkish forces along the Syrian/Turkish border where a huge number of those refugees located. It's a humanitarian thing to try to provide them a safe haven for now.
WALLACE: But sir, if I may press my ...
CARSON: And I would make sure that the Russians understood that we are going to do that.
WALLACE: If I may press my point, what do you do if - after we shoot down a Russian plane, they shoot down one of ours?
CARSON: If they violate it, we will, in fact, enforce it. And, you know, we'll see what happened. You know, too, for us to always be backing down because we are afraid of a conflict, that's not how we became a great nation, Chris.
WALLACE: But you're talking about getting potentially into a shooting war with Russia over Syria?
CARSON: Well, if we established a no-fly zone and we make clear the rules, if they violate it, that's why you have a no-fly zone. That's the very definition of a no-fly zone. You can't fly there.
WALLACE: Finally, sir, we are no longer, it seems to me, after Paris talking about issues like immigration and taxes, as important as they are, we are talking about life and death, we are talking about keeping Americans safe from people who would slaughter us, as they did in Paris. And I guess the question is why should voters choose you over someone who actually has experience in foreign policy, who has experience in national security?
CARSON: Are you talking about somebody like Hillary Clinton perhaps? I would say the reason is because you can articulate intelligent options and because you know how to work with other people and utilize the incredible resources that we have available to us. You know, I've had an opportunity in recent weeks to talk to a lot of incredible people who have a lot of experience getting their lifetime experience. I talked to Henry Kissinger and got his whole perspective on those areas.
WALLACE: Right.
CARSON: There are a lot of other people that I will be continuing to talk to. You have to be willing to recognize that you are not the end all, but you are the conduit for the conduct of American policies.
WALLACE: Dr. Carson, thank you. Thanks for joining us today. It's always a pleasure to talk with you, sir.
CARSON: Thank you, Chris.
WALLACE: Up next, we'll bring in our Sunday group to discuss this latest deadly turn in the war on terror and how it will reshape the race for president, as "FOX NEWS SUNDAY's" coverage of terror in Paris continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The killing of innocent people based on a twisted ideology is an attack not just on France, not just on Turkey, but it's an attack on the civilized world.
(ENDVIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: President Obama reaffirming U.S. resolved in waging the war against ISIS. And it's time now for our Sunday group. Syndicated columnist George Will. Peter Baker, who covers the White House for "The New York Times." Radio talk show host Laura Ingraham, and Charles Lane from "The Washington Post."
Peter, we have seen something of an escalation in U.S. efforts against ISIS just in the last week with American airstrikes helping the Kurds take back the city of Sinjar and also cut the highway, vital highway linking the ISIS capital of Raqqa and Syria with their biggest city in Iraq, Mosul, and then also the strike that apparently took out Jihadi John. In the wake of the attack on Paris, what do you expect President Obama to do next?
PETER BAKER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it's a very good point. Because in fact, he said just as you point out earlier, in the program just a couple of days ago that ISIS was contained in Iraq and Syria. I think he meant territorially in there, but clearly, you know, Paris and now the Russian plane and Beirut suggest something otherwise. Just yesterday they had a strike in Libya, the first time the attack of ISIS target outside of Iraq and Syria, and so you already began to see the beginning of, perhaps, a new stage of the effort. But, you know, he's going to have to confront this issue of what more he's going to do. I don't think he's going to be willing to put in substantial numbers of ground troops, as Ben Rhodes told you earlier in the program. And he's going to find that the options within the parameters he's willing to consider are relatively narrow.
WALLACE: You know, I want to pick up on that, Laura, because President Hollande said this was an act of war. He said that the French response will be merciless. There's talk about France invoking article V of NATO, an attack against one nation is an attack against all. And yet, what struck me when I raised all of that with Ben Rhodes, the president's deputy national security adviser and a very close aide to him. Don't think it's going to happen.
LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST, "THE LAURA INGRAHAM SHOW": Yeah, it is interesting that the tonality of the French leadership is much stronger and much more aggressive-sounding, obviously, in the aftermath of these horrific series of attacks. It seems more aggressive than our own president. I think there are a lot of things that come into play here. And you said earlier that immigration to Ben Carson isn't really connected to this. But I think as you're seeing with what's happening on the ground in France and Switzerland, with the rise of the nationalist party there, the real push against Merkel today in Germany for her saying a couple of days ago that my vision is intact for taking in these refugees. I think immigration actually is going to be part of this ...
WALLACE: And what's interesting there, is again, I asked Ben Rhodes about that, particularly given the fact that one of these attacker apparently was a migrant, had a Syrian passport. He said, no, no, we're going to continue with that program, too.
INGRAHAM: And hundreds I understand arrived yesterday in New Orleans, Syrian refugees, they are already coming to this country. And I think this is going to become a big part of this presidential debate, more so than it already is, and it really directly does tie into national security, our southern border, our northern border, our visa program and now with the refugees coming in, at least one with part of the migrant program. Registered, went through the whole process, the Island of Leros, moved forward through Macedonia and made his way to a connection in Paris that was helping carry out this series of attack.
WALLACE: Chuck, if this does, and everybody - it was assumed (ph) that this is ISIS. As I was discussing with Ben Rhodes and discussing with General Keane, they seemed to be engaged. Or if they had aspirations, they seem to be realizing them now, international terrorism, the downing of the Russian airliner, the suicide attack in Beirut, this horrific attack in Paris. And I'm wondering, is there a disconnect between President Obama and his people saying well, we took back the city of Sinjar 17 months later and what - the carnage that ISIS is involved in now.
CHARLES LANE, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I think we are witnessing the in effect retaliate from ISIS's point of view, the retaliation to what the U.S. and France have been attempting to do so far. And others. They're fighting Hezbollah, so they attack the Hezbollah area of Beirut. This is their effort to carry the fight that we have been taking against them into our cities, and our heartland, and to show to impose a cost on our civilian population of the so far limited measures that we have taken in their region.
WALLACE: But I was going to say, the doesn't the kind of, quote, containment that the president talks about, isn't that missing the point?
LANE: Well, they are trying to show that it's futile. In other words we can't be contained. Yes, maybe you can knock 25 miles off our territory somewhere, but we can reach out and touch you right in the heart of your capital. And that's why this is so dangerous. Because it is an attempt by them to show that, no, you can't fight this by remote control, right? You can't fight this through limited means. If you want to fight us at all, it's got to be total war.
WALLACE: George?
GEORGE WILL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: It's possible, I think that looking back a few weeks from now this particular demonstration that what happens in Syria doesn't say in Syria. We are going to conclude that in a grim sense worse is better. In the sense for years now, the war on terror has been enveloped in the strategic, tactical, legal and moral ambiguities of dealing with what are called non-state actors.
Well, here we are dealing with something that has state in its title, that increasingly by demonstrating its reach far from its territory in Libya, and then France, and knocking down the airlines, acts like a state and it should be treated like a state. If I heard Ben Rhodes correctly, he said that it is up to France whether or not to call this an article V event. In NATO 66 years, only once has the territory of a NATO member been invaded. That was the Falkland Islands, a long way from the North Atlantic, but Mr. Putin clearly is watching this. If you believe as I do that Putin's aim ultimately is to destroy NATO, by having a kind of semi-article V infraction into Latvia, Lithuania or Estonia, he's watching us with those cold eyes of his saying, what are they going to do if France does this? It will be interesting to know if there's pressure on France not to invoke that article.
(CROSSTALK)
LANE: But the Islamic State wants to destroy NATO, too. This is a weaponization, in a way, of all of the fragilities of the alliance within Europe and between Europe and the United States.
WALLACE: I want to turn specifically to the political issue, because it seems to be, this has enormous political ramifications. As you heard, Peter, in my discussion with Dr. Ben Carson, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but it feels to me like we're going to be entering a new chapter of this presidential race now, where national security, foreign policy, the war on terror is going to become a much more central issue in the campaign than it has been. Here was Hillary Clinton talking about the attack on Paris in last night's Democratic debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what the president has consistently said, which I agree with, is that we will support those who take the fight to ISIS, but this cannot be an American fight, although American leadership is essential.
(END video CLIP)
WALLACE: Question, do you think this helps or hurts Clinton? Given Obama's foreign policy record. And what do you think it does to the Republican race where you have the office holders with some experience and the outsiders who have held sway up until now?
BAKER: Well, look, she said last night that ISIS can't be contained, it needs to be defeated. So there, she's already trying to, in fact, distance herself to some extent from the president's foreign policy. She comes across, obviously, more than her counterparts on that, particularly stage as fluid and comfortable with foreign policy issues. Given her experience that's not surprising. Bernie Sanders starts his opening statement by addressing Paris and then very, very quickly shifting to the ground he's confluent (ph), which is income inequality, and trying to move this debate away. But if you are a president, you have to deal with all these different things, you can't simply brush away a foreign policy issue. The biggest challenge for her, though, is she made that, you know, he blames her, in effect, and by extension George W. Bush for invading Iraq in the first place. With a Democratic audience that's still a salient point to make. He doesn't give an alternative what he would do today, given the situation as it exists.
WALLACE: Laura, let's turn to the Republicans. What do you think it does to that race?
INGRAHAM: Couple of things. I think credibility and resolve become ever more important. I think experience as well, no doubt about it, dealing with this type of crisis, a threat to one of our strongest allies, and perhaps to the United States, given our own porous borders.
Chris Christie spoke yesterday at the Sunshine State event in Florida. He played out a whole speech, kind of throwing out his stump speech, and focusing on these issues of credibility, resolve, someone in office who does not just blow with whatever political winds are there, and puts America's interests first and that of her allies. It was a very powerful speech. I think we'll see more of that from other candidates.
WALLACE: George, just 30 seconds left in this. Is foreign policy going to be an area of strength or weakness for Hillary Clinton, given all the criticism of the Obama foreign policy?
WILL: It seems to me the more disorderly the world is, the more difficult it is to run on your record as secretary of state as a qualification for president.
WALLACE: To be continued. Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday.
Up next, a final word about a dark day in the city of light.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WALLACE: A live look at an informal memorial outside one of the restaurants that was attacked in Paris, where at least 12 people were killed. Stay tuned to this station and Fox News Channel for continuing coverage of the terror attack on Paris, and how the U.S. and our allies will respond.
And that's it for today. We'll see you next "Fox News Sunday."
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